[CALL TO ORDER]
[DISCUSSION TOPICS]
[00:03:33]
JANUARY 1ST OF 2026, BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO IT AFTER THE NEW THREE AT LARGE ELECTED, AND SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THE COMPENSATION WILL BE AS THEY GO INTO. JANUARY 1ST, 2026.
I'LL THROW OUT A TIDBIT JUST JUST LIKE WE JUST WHEN WE DISCUSS STAFF PAY, WE REEVALUATE THAT? WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THEIR THE COLA THAT WE PUT INTO THE STAFF PAY FOR THE BUDGET EVERY YEAR.
IT HAS PROBABLY BEEN MENTIONED, AND I THINK WE ALL GRASPED THE FACT THAT IF YOU DON'T DO A COST OF LIVING INCREASE OR ADJUSTMENT OF SOME KIND, YOU'RE GIVING A DE FACTO PAY CUT, RIGHT? SO I WENT INTO AN INFLATION CALCULATOR AND FIGURED OUT THAT THE SALARY, THE CURRENT SALARY WAS SET IN 2015, WHEN IN FACT, JANUARY 2016.
THAT'S THE DE FACTO PAY CUT THAT WE'VE TAKEN EVERY YEAR LAST NINE YEARS.
RIGHT? WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THAT, OFFICER, SHE SAID.
OKAY. AND THAT THE YEAR WE SET THAT PAY AT AT 18,000.
WHAT WOULD THAT EQUIVALENT PAY BE WORTH IF YOU WENT UP RIGHT? IT WOULD ACTUALLY COME REALLY CLOSE TO WHERE CHAD WAS SAYING IT WOULD LAND.
[00:05:03]
LET ME TELL YOU. THE STARTING DATE OF JANUARY 2016. 18,000. I NEED TO SAY IT IS 23,978. VERY CLOSE. IF YOU WERE GOING TO KEEP UP.SO. YEAH. SO IT COMES REALLY CLOSE TO LEGENDARY.
I THINK THE OPTICS OF OF A TRUE COLA INCREASE FOR THE CITY COUNCIL IS, I THINK THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH IT NOT NOT WHAT IT EFFECTIVELY DOES. BECAUSE WHETHER IT'S A COLOR THAT HAPPENS QUOTE UNQUOTE, AUTOMATICALLY OR A SOMETHING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL JUST SETS, SETS AND SAYS, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE.
EITHER WAY, IT HAS TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. EITHER WAY, WE'RE GIVING OURSELVES A PAY RAISE, SO TO SPEAK. AND WHAT WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB IS SUGGESTING IS IT'S NOT REALLY A PAY INCREASE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COST OF LIVING INCREASE YEAR OVER YEAR.
AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT THE OPTICS ARE DIFFERENT.
DIFFICULT FOR US. I CAN SAY THAT THE REASON WHY I LIKE SETTING IT THE SAME AS THE STAFF'S COLA IS IT KIND OF TAKES OUR OPINION OUT OF IT, RIGHT? THE STAFF SUGGESTS LIKE.
RIGHT. THE MAYOR'S BUDGET AND THE CITY MANAGER AND DENISE WORK TOGETHER TO DETERMINE WHAT AN APPROPRIATE COLA IS FOR THE YEAR, GIVEN PARAMETERS OF THE BUDGET AND WHAT WE'VE TAKEN IN, IN REVENUE AND WHAT WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, CPI IS DONE OR WHATEVER. AND THOSE ALL KIND OF GO INTO THEIR FORMULAIC BRAINS AND THEY SPIT OUT A NUMBER AND I THAT WAY IT TAKES IT OUT OF OUR HANDS.
I KIND OF LIKE THAT WE STILL HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE IT.
THAT'S THE HARD PART. RIGHT. BUT BUT THE THE NOT THE EXACT NUMBER IS TAKEN OUT OF OUR HANDS, WHICH IS KIND OF NICE. YEAH. WELL, YEAH. AND I WOULDN'T SAY IT TAKES IT OUT OF OUR HANDS, BUT IT GIVES US SOMETHING BESIDES OUR OWN OPINION AS TO WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULD MAKE.
YEAH. TO FALL BACK. YEAH. CORBIN, I HAVE A QUESTION.
WE HAD TALKED AT LEAST ONE BUDGET CYCLE IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO, ELIMINATING COLAS AND GOING MORE TO A MARKET ADJUSTMENT ON THE ANNUAL MARKET ADJUSTMENT.
AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE ANY INFLATIONARY COSTS.
ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE STILL DOING MARKET ANKLE.
DID YOU MARKET AND COLA COLA THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
COLA HAS BEEN ABOUT HALF OF WHAT THE TRUE RATE OF INFLATION HAS BEEN.
SO INFLATION WAS 4%. THE COLA ADJUSTMENT WAS 2%.
BUT THE COMBINATION OF COLA AND EXAMINING MARKET ADJUSTMENTS AND MAKING TARGETED MARKET ADJUSTMENTS BASED ON THE PAY FOR CERTAIN POSITIONS AND WHAT OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, ESPECIALLY OTHER GOVERNMENTS, ARE PAYING FOR THOSE POSITIONS.
THOSE TWO THINGS COMBINED GENERALLY KEEP PACE WITH INFLATION OVER A 5 TO 10 YEAR PERIOD.
BUT NEITHER ONE ALONE PACE WITH INFLATION. CORRECT.
WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THE CITY IS WORKING TOWARDS JUST DOING MARKET.
SO ARE WE NOT GOING TOWARDS MARKET? ARE WE LOOKING AT KEEPING BOTH MARKETS? WELL, WE DO MARKET EVERY YEAR. WE ARE DOING MARKET EVERY YEAR NOW.
THAT WASN'T ALWAYS THE CASE. WE STILL ADJUST THE PAY RANGES, BUT I DON'T LIKE PERSONALLY IS AUTOMATIC ADJUSTMENTS WITHIN THE PAY RANGE JUST FOR LENGTH OF TIME SERVED ONLY? BUT THE PAY RANGES THEMSELVES NEED TO ADJUST EVERY YEAR BASED ON INFLATION.
WE ARE DOING THAT. AND GENERALLY WE CALL THAT A COLA ADJUSTMENT.
BUT IF WE'RE DOING A MARKET EVALUATION, DOESN'T THE MARKET DEAL WITH COLAS AT THAT POINT AS WELL? THE MARKET CAP FOR COLAS? YEAH. YES AND NO. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE IF THE MARKET STUDY ONLY CAPTURES
[00:10:06]
COLAS, THEN WE KEEP PACE AND WE DON'T MAKE ADJUSTMENTS WITHIN THE CITY.THE MARKET STUDY JUST KIND OF CONFIRMS THAT WE'RE ABOUT WHERE WE SHOULD BE.
AND THE GENERAL COST OF ENGINEERS ACROSS THE WHOLE VALLEY OF THE STATE IS OUTPACING INFLATION.
YOU KNOW, TAKE TAKE THE POSITION. SO THAT'S WHY WE DO BOTH THE MARKET STUDY AND ADJUST THE PAY AGES.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A SURPLUS OF LABOR OR SKILLED WORKERS IN A CERTAIN FIELD AS THEIR PAY GO DOWN? IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, IT MAY. YEAH, YEAH. FOR US, WE SET THESE PAY RANGES AND SO WE HIRE WITHIN THAT SET PAY RANGE, USUALLY AT THE BOTTOM BUT NOT ALWAYS DEPENDING ON EXPERIENCE.
BUT USUALLY MOST OF OUR POSITIONS HAVE MORE THAN ONE PERSON IN THAT RANGE.
OKAY, THAT WAS OFF TOPIC, I APOLOGIZE. A PERSON GETS PAID.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO LOWER THEIR PAY MARKET. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO MARKET FOR COUNCIL MEMBER.
YOU DON'T. IT'S IT'S SO, YOU KNOW, YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN LOOK AT.
AND THAT'S WHY I WOULDN'T COMPARE TO I WOULDN'T DO A MARKET RATE ANALYSIS I DON'T.
I MEAN WE'VE WE'VE DONE THAT RIGHT. EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP, SOMEBODY PUTS OUT A CHART IS WHAT ALL THE OTHER CITY COUNCILS GET PAID AND WHAT THEIR FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS, AND HOW IT'S DIFFERENT AND HOW IT'S THE SAME, AND HOW OFTEN THEY MEET AND HOW OFTEN WE MEET, WHATEVER. AND SOMEBODY THROWS THAT OUT EVERY, EVERY TIME. BUT AN ENGINEER WHO WORKS FOR WEST JORDAN CAN QUIT AND GO WORK FOR SANDY.
YEAH, IT'S NOT QUITE AS EASY FOR A CITY COUNCILMAN TO DO THAT.
NO, IT'S A MULTI YEAR PROCESS. YEAH IF YOU WANT TO.
SO IT'S YEAH I AGREE THAT AND I KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
BUT YOU CAN USE IT AS A BENCHMARK. YOU CAN YOU CAN COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES ORANGES TO ORANGES.
AND I AT LEAST HAVE A I DON'T HAVE A BALLPARK.
I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, I WOULDN'T EVER PROPOSE THAT WE I MEAN, THE CITY GOVERNMENT THAT'S AS CLOSE TO CLOSEST TO US RIGHT NOW OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE THE THIRD LARGEST CITY IS SALT LAKE CITY.
BUT YEAH, I'M NOT EVER GOING TO PROPOSE THAT WE OUGHT TO GET PAID.
WHAT? SALT LAKE CITY IS PAID. THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.
THAT'S A MULTIYEAR PROCESS. START LOOKING FOR A HOUSE IN SALT LAKE CITY.
YEAH. AND THEN. AND THAT MONEY WOULD BE WORTH A WHOLE.
THAT'S WHAT IT IS HERE. RIGHT. SO FOR ME, THIS ISN'T A JOB.
THIS IS A SERVICE. SO. THEN WE SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T GO GET ANOTHER JOB.
WELL, YOU CAN YOU PROBABLY WON'T BECOME AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SOMEWHERE ELSE OVERNIGHT.
BUT TO ME, THESE AREN'T JOBS. THESE ARE SERVICES THAT WE CHOOSE TO DO.
AND I CURRENTLY I FEEL THE COMPENSATION IS ADEQUATE, SO I WON'T BE GOING FOR IT.
BUT IT I THINK IT DOES. I THINK THERE IS SOME VALUE IN LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER CITIES DO AND WHAT OTHER ELECTED BODIES ARE COMPENSATED. WE CURRENTLY ARE COMPENSATED HIGHER THAN OUR STATE LEGISLATORS.
SO THERE IS THAT AND THEY'RE HAPPY ABOUT THAT.
SO I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. WE CAN AND WE CAN. AND I THINK THERE ARE FOUR OF YOU THAT WANT TO.
AND THAT'S OKAY. ONCE, ONCE THE BODY MAKES A DECISION, I, I UNDERSTAND IF THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT US, THEN THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM. I DON'T THINK IT'S LIKE THAT.
I THINK IT'S JUST THAT, WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE ONLY THING WE LOOK AT, OBVIOUSLY THIS THIS IS A SERVICE THAT WE PROVIDE, BUT IT DOES COME DOWN TO AT SOME POINT. IF IT DOES TAKE TIME, IT TAKES THAT.
BUT ONE THING IT DOES DO, AND I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, THAT IF WE ARE ON THE LOW END OF PROVIDING THE PAY FOR THE SERVICE THAT OTHER CITIES ALSO PAY, WE'RE GOING TO GET LESS QUALIFIED PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TRY TO BE A PART OF THIS.
[00:15:02]
AND TO TAKE TIME AWAY FROM WORK TO DO ALL THIS, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.SO I'LL DO WHAT I CAN. AND I'LL PUT IN STUFF.
BUT I'M NOT GOING TO DO THE CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE I HAVE MY FAMILY.
I'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT IT AND IT'S NOT WORTH THE TIME. SO I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A BIG RAISE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT I'M JUST BRINGING IT UP THERE THAT THE MORE WE BREAK IT DOWN.
SAME THING IN WHAT CORBIN DOES. IF WE'RE ALWAYS PAYING THE LOW END AND NOT PAYING UP THE MARKET, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE PEOPLE FILL THE POSITIONS WITHIN THE CITY THAT ARE THE BEST POSSIBLE PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE WHY WE APPROVE BIGGER BUDGETS FOR POLICE DEPARTMENT, FIRE DEPARTMENT, THINGS LIKE THAT, SO WE CAN GET THE BEST PEOPLE. AND I THINK IF WE LOOK AT MAKING SURE I DO A TON OF STUFF IN MY LIFE FOR FREE, AND I REGRET IT A LOT BECAUSE I, I SPEND WAY TOO MUCH OF MY TIME DOING FREE STUFF AND I ENJOY IT.
BUT THERE'S A TIME WHERE I LOOK AT IT AND GO, MAN, IF I WOULD HAVE JUST SAID, GIVE ME $100 TO DO THAT TO EVERYONE WHO I DO SOMETHING FOR FREE FOR, THAT'S WORTH THOUSANDS, I WOULD BE IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION AND I WOULD BE HAPPIER DOING THIS.
BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S THE POINT THERE. YOU CAN JUST I JUST DON'T REALLY AGREE WITH THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU GET BETTER BECAUSE THE THE CITY RAISED THE MAYORAL RATE WAGE REALLY HIGH QUITE A WHILE AGO COMPARED TO WHAT IT WAS AFTER AFTER WHEN MELISSA WAS GOING TO BE GONE. SHE FELT STRONGLY THAT IT NEEDED TO BE MORE OF A FULL TIME AND THE COMPENSATION NEEDED TO BE HIGHER.
DID WE GET BETTER CANDIDATES? I WOULD ARGUE NO.
DID WE GET MORE CANDIDATES? YES. SO NO. PART OF IT? NO I DIDN'T. YOU RAN FOR MAYOR RECENTLY THAT YEAR? YEAH. AND WE GOT A LOT OF CANDIDATES THAT I DIDN'T FEEL THAT THE QUALITY WAS THERE.
AND AT THIS TIME, WE RAISED IT, AND WE GOT TWO CANDIDATES.
SO I DON'T I DON'T I DON'T SEE THE CORRELATION.
I TOTALLY AGREE. AT THIS END OF MY LIFE, I TOTALLY AGREE.
HAD I HAD I STAYED WORKING IN PAID JOBS, I WOULD HAVE A RETIREMENT THAT I DON'T HAVE NOW.
EXACTLY. AND SOMETIMES I THINK WHAT WAS I DOING? BUT I STILL WOULDN'T TRADE ALL OF MY SERVICE HOURS.
SO I GET IT. BUT I JUST FEEL THIS IS SERVICE.
I'M LOOKING AT IT THIS WAY. NO. WHEN WE CHANGE THE 4:00, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TODAY, AND IF I WASN'T GETTING PAID, I'D BE VERY UPSET AND I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE MINDSET TO WORK AS HARD AND FIND THE QUESTIONS AND DO MY HOMEWORK AS I DID.
IF I KNEW THAT I WASN'T BEING COMPENSATED FOR MY TIME, FOR LEAVING MY JOB, THAT ORIGINALLY WHEN I GOT ELECTED, IT WAS NOT DURING THESE WORK HOURS. SO FOR ME, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING DURING WORK HOURS, WE SHOULD BE COMPENSATED FOR THAT. MY BOSS HAS DECIDED TO KNOCK MY TWO HOURS EVERY TWO WEEKS THAT I DO.
AND I SAID, OKAY, FINE, TWO MONTHS. YEAH, BUT BUT THAT'S THAT'S OKAY.
I AGREED TO DO THIS, BUT WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT DOING THIS TO GET RICH.
NO, NOT AT ALL. JUST COMPENSATION. RICH. I MEAN, IT'S IF YOU BREAK IT DOWN, IT'S MAKING, LIKE, LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. YEAH, EXACTLY. SO IT'S NOT THAT.
IT'S JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE WORKING HARD.
WE'RE ARE WORKING MULTIPLE HOURS A WEEK. I AGREE THAT MUST BE FAIR.
LIKE YOU'RE YOU'RE NOT DOING THIS FOR THE MONEY. NO, THE THE COMPENSATION HELPS, BUT YOU'RE NOT DOING IT BECAUSE, OH, LOOK, I'M GOING TO DO THIS. I'M GOING TO BE RICH. I KNOW PEOPLE FOR TEN YEARS FOR THE MONEY.
NOBODY EVER BELIEVES THEM. OKAY. SORRY, KELVIN.
I JUST WANT TO GET A WORD IN FIRST. I THINK THERE'S A BALANCE THERE.
WHAT? WHAT THAT BALANCE IS. I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT THE THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IS THAT IF WE'RE IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO STEP UP AND BE ON THE WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL, THEY CAN'T LOSE MONEY.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION IS WHAT'S THE BALANCE THERE? BOB'S GOT A BOSS TO DO IT IN TIME. MY BOSS, I CAN WORK WHENEVER I WANT, AND I COULD IF I MISSED A COUPLE OF HOURS THAT DAY.
I CAN GO IN ON FRIDAY AND I CAN COVER IT AND NOBODY CARES.
BUT NOT EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT. AND SO THERE IS A BALANCE THERE.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW. DO I WANT US TO BE LIKE WOODLAND HILLS? SORRY, CARRIE. BUT DO I WANT US TO BE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, CARRIE MALKOVICH? DO I WANT TO BE ON WOODLAND HILLS? DO I WANT TO BE ON WOODLAND HILLS? THAT THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER GETS PAID $87.50 A MONTH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? NO. THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S THE TRUE SERVICE. AND YOU GOT TO LOVE BEING IN YOUR COMMUNITY THAT IS IT THE $53,000 A YEAR THE SALT LAKE CITY HAS GIVEN THEMSELVES GIVEN THEMSELVES?
[00:20:05]
I DON'T THINK THAT'S THERE EITHER, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BALANCE IS.SO I'LL TELL YOU THAT FOR ME PERSONALLY, SERVING ON THE CITY COUNCIL.
TRUSTEE. PRETTY MUCH. DOES IT COST THE COST, THE COST, OPPORTUNITY COST MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
BUT I GIVE UP JOBS ALL THE TIME IN ORDER TO BE TO MEETINGS.
SO THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A FINANCIAL COST FOR ME TO SERVE ON CITY COUNCIL.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE COUNCILMEMBER SAID, IT'S SOMETHING I DO BECAUSE I LOVE IT AND I GREATLY VALUE THAT I'VE BUILT HERE. YEAH. THE BALANCE THAT'S THE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DECIDE.
SO HERE'S MY PROPOSAL. 24,000 STARTING FIRST 26 AND THEN NO COLA LINKED TO THE CITY OR ANYBODY.
IT'S JUST OUR OWN 2%, 3% RAISE OF AROUND $500 IN THE YEAR 2027 AND 2028.
WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO IT? I DON'T WANT TO LINK IT.
AND SO I'M KIND OF FEELING THE SAME WAY WITH NIKOLA. I DON'T WANT TO.
IT'S CURIOUS. I LIKE I LIKE THE IDEA OF JUST HAVING IT BEING PROPOSED BY FINANCIALLY.
NO. AND I GET IT. I SEE WHERE YOU'RE COMING. BY THE WAY, WE STILL HAVE TO APPROVE IT.
EITHER WAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A VOTE ON IT EVERY YEAR, AND MOST OF THE PUBLIC THAT SHOWS UP WILL SAY, HOW DARE YOU GIVE YOURSELF CREDIT? WE WANT TO GO 24,000 WITH NIKOLA LINKED TO THE CITY, OR $24,000.
THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE. BUT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T ANY OTHERS LIKE THE CITY.
OR DO WE JUST WANT TO DO REGULAR ON OUR OWN? I THINK WITH THIS CITY.
SO IT'S JUST TAKES UP ONE LESS ITEM WE HAVE TO DEBATE.
YEAH. AND THEN WE REVISIT IN 2028. WELL, WHEN I SAY WE WE MIGHT NOT BE HERE.
THAT'S WHY FOR TEN YEARS NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
SO REALLY SETTING UP FOR THE FUTURE COUNCIL MEMBERS, NOT JUST FOR US PERSONALLY.
AND MY IDEA DON'T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY. IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME WE AS A BODY SET THE MAYOR'S SALARY.
YES WE DO. MAYOR, OUR SALARY IS LIKE THAT. WELL, THE REASON I HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING NICE. WELL, NICE THING ABOUT THAT IS HE DOESN'T GET ANY.
BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MAYOR'S SALARY AND IT KEEPS HIM POLITICALLY INSULATED OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, HE'S OUT OF THE CONVERSATION, DECIDE.
CAN YOU DO THAT? IS THAT LESS? NO. MORE. IS THAT A IS THAT A IS THAT WITHIN CODE THAT THE MAYOR CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT? I DON'T KNOW IF IF ANYBODY ELSE DROPS THAT, HE COULD SUGGEST IT.
AND WE STILL HAVE TO VOTE. WE HAVE TO APPROVE IT.
YEAH. THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THE MAYOR WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IN THAT KIND OF.
YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, BUT I THINK I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
ANYWAY, THERE'S NO SMILE OVER THERE. RANDOM RANDOM THOUGHT.
TOSS IT OUT THERE. THE MAYOR'S GOING. WHY DID I SHOW UP FOR THIS MEETING? SO TONIGHT WE'RE NOT VOTING ON THIS. THIS IS GOING TO BE PUBLIC HEARING VOTED LATER.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE I HAVE FOUR PEOPLE THAT ARE OKAY WITH 24,000 SALARY STARTING THE FIRST OF 2026 WITH A COLA FOR NEXT YEAR, AND THEN WE APPROVE IT EVERY YEAR DURING THE BUDGET SEASON.
YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO CHAD, ZACK KENT AND BOB.
WELL, I WANT TO AGAIN LIKE SIX MONTHS AGO, YOU KNOW.
OH, WELL, HERE WE ARE. ANOTHER TEN YEARS. IF WE WAIT, IT'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER TEN.
ALL RIGHT. WELL THANK YOU. THAT WAS THAT WAS GOOD DISCUSSION. I AM SORRY, SIX MONTHS, BUT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES MAYBE THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND I'M LIKE, I SWEAR IT WAS BACK IN MAY.
SO. WELL WE STARTED IN OCTOBER. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
SO LET'S MOVE TO DISCUSSION TOPIC B DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE REVISIONS TO THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
[00:25:02]
LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT PATRICK HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS. AND I'M SURE SOME OF YOU HAVE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE PROGRAM.PATRICK, TELL US WHAT IT IS AND WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY.
YEAH. SO WE HAD AN AGENDA ITEM THAT WAS INITIALLY CAPTIONED FOR TITLE FOUR, CHAPTER TWO, SORT OF DEFINITIONS OF SPECIAL BUSINESS TYPES AND LICENSES. THE GOOD LORD GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THOSE.
AND SO INSTEAD OF TAKING THE WHOLE CHAPTER TWO AS A WHOLE, WE'RE JUST KIND OF BREAKING IT UP IN THIS ONE THAT'S KIND OF ON TARGET, I THINK WITH WHAT I'VE HEARD THE COUNCIL MEMBERS TALK ABOUT AS BEING THEIR PRIORITIES FOR THE COMING YEAR, AS WELL AS JUST THINGS THAT THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS WITHIN OUR LICENSING SYSTEM.
RIGHT. SO THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM RIGHT NOW IS A CERTIFICATION THAT LANDLORDS CAN RECEIVE WHEN THEY COME TO THE CITY AND THEY AGREE TO MEET CERTAIN STANDARDS. WE GIVE THEM ESSENTIALLY A BREAK IN FEES.
SO LONG AS THEY STAY IN COMPLIANCE WITH US, THEY TAKE CLASSES AND THEY MANAGE THEIR PROPERTIES.
WELL, THEY WORK WITH THEIR TENANTS. WE CONTINUE TO GIVE THEM A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THEIR FEES.
AND YOU CAN SAY, WELL, HOW MUCH IS THAT AT REDUCTION.
IT'S ABOUT $150 REDUCED FEE. IT GOES FROM LIKE 170 DOWN TO $21 DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF RESIDENCE, RIGHT? MOBILE HOMES ARE DIFFERENT THAN CONDOS.
CONDOS ARE DIFFERENT FROM SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS.
APARTMENTS ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY AS WELL. BUT THEY DO GET GET A BREAK IN THOSE FEES.
SO OUR GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IT'S CODIFIED IN IN OUR BUSINESS LICENSING PROVISIONS.
WE'VE GOT DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS. BUT WE'RE HERE TO GET A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK AS PART OF KIND OF SOME OF THESE REVISIONS TO BUSINESS LICENSING AND WHAT WE WANT TO DO. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
I THINK ALMOST EVERYBODY TALKED ABOUT BUSINESS LICENSING BEING A PRIORITY.
THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAMS, KIND OF THE NEXUS OF THOSE TWO DISCUSSIONS, RIGHT? WE TRY TO REDUCE FEES AS MUCH AS WE CAN, MAKE IT QUICK AND SEAMLESS AND EASY.
WITH OUR PROGRAM AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND AT THE SAME TIME REQUIRE THAT THE PROPERTIES ARE MAINTAINED SO THAT YOU DON'T GET BROCK OR ONE OF HIS CREWS SHOWING UP ON YOUR DOORSTEP WITH A CITATION OR WEEDS OR OTHER THINGS.
SO IT'S THIS PROGRAM THAT WE KIND OF WANT TO KNOW.
DOES THE COUNCIL LIKE IT? YOU WANT TO KEEP IT.
YOU WANT TO KEEP WORKING ON IT? OR DO YOU SEE VALUE TO IT? DO WE HAVE ANY MEASURABLE OUTCOMES THAT HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED WITH THIS PROGRAM? I MEAN, ARE WE SEEING THE EFFECTIVENESS OR IS IT I MEAN, WHAT'S THE ULTIMATE GOAL? IS IT IS IT FINANCIAL? IS IT QUALITY ASSURANCE? LIKE WHAT'S THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THIS PROGRAM? I WOULD CATEGORIZE IT AS AS THIS. RIGHT. THE FEES THAT THE CITY CHARGES ARE MEANT TO OFFSET THE COSTS THAT THE CITY INCURS IF IF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CODE ENFORCEMENT AND FIRE HAVE TO COME OUT TO YOUR PROPERTY A LOT, YOU'RE INCURRING A LOT OF COSTS. IF YOU'RE A GOOD LANDLORD AND YOU GET GOOD TENANTS, YOU MAINTAIN YOUR PROPERTY PROPERLY. IT'S COMPLIANT WITH THE CODE. YOU'RE NOT HAVING WILD PARTIES EVERY NIGHT.
YOU'RE INCURRING LESS FEES. AND SO WE SAY WE'LL GIVE YOU LESS COST.
BUT DO WE HAVE ANY MEASURABLE. IT'S IT'S TOUGH TO IT'S TOUGH TO SAY.
BASICALLY EVERYBODY BECAUSE BECAUSE THE COST IS SO LOW AND THE REQUIREMENTS ARE SO MINIMAL.
ARE THE LANDLORDS USING THE THE DISCOUNT AS AN INCENTIVE? LIKE ARE THEY PASSING THAT ALONG OR LIKE HOW ARE THEY UTILIZING THAT? WE WOULDN'T WE WOULDN'T KNOW IF THEY'RE PASSING IT ALONG OR NOT. I THINK RENTS ARE JUST GOING TO BE.
[00:30:01]
THE LANDLORD MANAGER CERTIFIED. MY QUESTION WOULD BE, SO LET ME LET ME TELL YOU THAT QUESTION A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND THEN A PHILOSOPHY. LET ME TELL YOU THE PHILOSOPHY FIRST.THE LICENSE. THE LICENSE. THE RENTAL. THE RENTAL.
BUSINESS LICENSE SHOULD BE THERE TO CAPTURE WHO THE LANDLORD IS.
WHO THE PROPERTY OWNER IS. SO WE'VE GOT A POINT OF CONTACT SO THAT IF THERE'S A PROBLEM ON THE PROPERTY, WE CAN REACH OUT AND NOT HAVE TO NOT HAVE TO SEARCH THROUGH 10,000 RECORDS, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN LLCS AND REGISTERED AGENTS AND ALL THAT OTHER NONSENSE THAT YOU WOULD YOU WOULD HAVE.
SO THAT I THINK THAT TO ME, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO GET THE PERSON LICENSED SO THAT WE HAVE AN APPROPRIATE POINT OF CONTACT.
POINT ONE SECOND QUESTION WHO'S REALLY RESPOND? AND I KNOW I'M GOING TO ASK A QUESTION, AND I'LL PROBABLY TAKE A TON OF ARROWS FROM A BUNCH OF PEOPLE, BUT WHO'S REALLY RESPONSIBLE TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY AND DEAL WITH.
AFTER OUR PART, YOU KNOW, LATE PARTIES AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
BECAUSE IN THE TYPICAL LANDLORD RENTAL AGREEMENT, THE RENTER TAKES FULL ENJOYMENT OF THE PROPERTY, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE, AND THE LANDLORD HAS LITTLE CONTROL.
SO, YES, WE ENFORCE LANDSCAPE ORDINANCES AND SAY, HEY, YOU CAN'T HAVE THE WEEDS HIGHER THAN X, BUT WHO'S REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT? UNDER THE RENTAL CONTRACT, IS IT THE RENTER OR IS IT THE OWNER NOW? AND WE KNOW WELL AND IT KIND OF IS.
LANDLORD DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CONTROL ANY MORE THAN THE CITY DOES SOMETIMES.
AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION I WOULD HAVE IS WHAT'S THE LEGISLATURE'S APPROACH ON THIS.
THERE'S BECAUSE I KNOW THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM USED TO TALK ABOUT RUNNING BACKGROUND CHECKS ON CERTAIN ON ON YOUR RENTERS AND RUNNING CREDIT REPORTS AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. WELL, ARE WE INTO ARE WE INTO AN ISSUE WHERE WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT EXCLUSIONARY HOUSING AND WHAT IS THAT? IS THAT CAUSING A DIFFERENT ISSUE? FOR US AND AND WHAT'S THE LEGISLATURE'S VIEW ON THAT? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SOME SOMETIMES. SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS. THEY'VE DECLARED BANKRUPTCY. I MEAN, THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THIS CITY THAT ANYBODY'S DECLARED BANKRUPTCY.
THE HECK, I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S A THAT'S A GREAT MESSAGE.
PARTICULARLY IN A HOUSING CRISIS. AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WANT TO GO OTHER THAN THE FACT IS, IS IS IT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM? IS IT A GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM THAT'S OPERATED BY THE CITY THAT THEY HAVE TO COME AND THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE CITY STANDARDS AND WHO'S LIABLE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WHERE, THE, WHERE THE DIRECTION OF THAT WOULD GO.
BUT WHAT I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE OF IS THAT WE'RE NOT USING BACKGROUND CHECKS AND CREDIT REPORTS TO MAKE THE TO MAKE RENTALS EXCLUSIONARY IN THE CITY AND AND AND SO THAT'S WHERE THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT. COMMUNITY MEMBERS REPORT IMPROVEMENTS OR LANDLORDS ENJOY THIS PROGRAM, OR IS IT LITERALLY JUST AN AVENUE FOR US TO COLLECT CONTACT INFORMATION? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT'S A GOOD NEIGHBOR PROGRAM. SO THESE ARE ALL GOOD, GOOD QUESTIONS.
I ROCK IS THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT WHO MANAGES THE PROGRAM AND STAFF.
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? IS TOTALLY UP TO THE COUNCIL, BUT LET ME TELL YOU WHERE WE'RE AT.
WE HAVEN'T HAD THE RESOURCES TO TO REALLY MANAGE THIS, THIS, THIS CODE.
[00:35:02]
BE BLUNT. DON'T. AND SO YOU NEED YOU NEED ONE PERSON TO HANDLE ALL THE DEPARTMENTS.WELL, IT DEPENDS. IT DEPENDS ON THE LEVEL OF SERVICE.
RIGHT. SO WE'VE GOT, WHAT, 80? JUST OVER 8200.
OUTSIDE OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES. WE HAVE 1484 RENTAL UNITS.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION. ARE WE DOING THIS FOR FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY? ARE WE DOING IT FOR TENANT LANDLORD COMPLIANCE? ARE WE DOING IT FOR COMMUNITY OUTCOMES? I THINK IF WE FIND THAT INTENTION, THEN WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH HOW WE WANT TO MOVE THIS DISCUSSION AND MOVE THE LANDLORD PROGRAM FURTHER.
YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE EVERYBODY'S A PART OF IT, WHICH MEANS IT'S NOT A PROGRAM.
IT'S JUST AN AUTOMATIC THING. EVERYBODY GETS A DISCOUNT.
IT'S JUST A DISCOUNT WITHOUT MUCH BENEFIT TO THE RESIDENTS.
YEAH. SO THAT'S THAT'S WHERE I'M REALLY MISSING.
WHAT THE POINT OF THE PROGRAM TRULY IS IF WE'RE NOT DEFINING.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. SO CURRENTLY, THE ONLY OTHER TWO ARE SALT LAKE, SOUTH SALT LAKE THAT HAVE THE PROGRAM. I THINK THAT THAT SAYS SOMETHING. I WANT TO KNOW WHEN WAS THE RENTAL UNIT THE LAST STUDY, BECAUSE IT SAYS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE STUDIED. AND I WANT TO KNOW HOW OFTEN AND DOES STATE LAW REQUIRE IT OR ALLOW IT MORE OFTEN? I WANT TO KNOW HOW THAT MARKET STUDY IS DONE.
I ALSO WANT TO KNOW WHO DOES THE GOOD LANDLORD CLASSES IN THE CITY, AND IF WE CHARGE FOR THAT CLASS.
I ALSO WANT TO KNOW, I KIND OF LIKE KELVIN SAID, WHY I DON'T WHEN I READ IT, IT WAS JUST THAT THEY HAD TO DO A CREDIT REPORT, WHICH MEAN TO ME, WHY DO WE CARE? BECAUSE I DOUBT WE ASK THEM TO SEE THAT CREDIT REPORT.
AND I'LL TELL YOU, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM DOES NOT WORK.
AND ONE OF THE LANDLORDS IS NO LONGER IN THE PROGRAM BECAUSE IT DID NOTHING.
RIGHT. BUT BUT IT CAN BE IN THE CITY. AND IF IT IS, WHO IN THE CITY DOES THAT TRAINING AND WHAT DO WE TEACH THEM? I DON'T THINK WE OFFER IT. THE CITY ITSELF DOESN'T OFFER.
WE DO THAT. IT SAYS WE DO. WELL, I THINK IT I THINK IT SAYS THAT THAT WE HAVE THE OPTION TO.
YEAH, THEY CAN EITHER TAKE IT FROM THE CITY OR AN OUTSIDE AND WE'RE JUST WE'RE JUST NOT.
WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCE. WE DON'T DO THAT.
OKAY, THEN IT SHOULDN'T SAY THAT WE WOULD. IT'S SOMETHING.
BUT AGAIN, I THINK TO SCOTT'S POINT, I THINK THIS IS THE ISSUE IF IF THE COUNCIL WANTS US TO OFFER THAT TRAINING OR HAVE SCOTT OR WHOEVER'S DEPARTMENT, I THINK THE FUNDS JUST NEED TO BE SET ASIDE FOR THAT.
WE HAVEN'T HAD IT BUDGETED THAT I'M AWARE OF.
AND SO THAT'S BEEN BEEN PART OF THAT, THAT ISSUE.
THEY HAVE FUNDS TO ACTUALLY MAKE SOME SORT OF PROGRAM.
YEAH. IT'S A CATCH 22 ON IT. I MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE FEES ARE, IS THAT IS THAT 2018 COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK WAS THE LAST TIME THAT THE FEES WERE STUDIED AND THAT AND THAT A LOT OF IT DATES FROM KIND OF THAT, THAT RANGE.
IF IF WE BUMPED UP THE FEES, THEN ARGUABLY THEY COULD BE USED TO FUND MORE PROGRAMING.
THEY WOULD STILL BE VERY LOW. RIGHT. LIKE, EVEN IF WE WENT FROM 21 TO 40 OR 30 OR WHATEVER, IT WOULD STILL BE A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN FEES, BUT IT WOULD ALLOW FOR SOME FUNDING OF MORE ENFORCEMENT.
DO WE HAVE DATA FROM THE OTHER CITIES THAT DO THIS AND WHAT THEY DO AND HOW THEY BALANCE IT? WE DO NOT. WITH WITH DOING OUR SURVEY, THERE WERE JUST LIKE THE THREE THAT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM.
SOUTH SALT LAKE HAS ABOUT 95% OF THEIR RESIDENTS ARE RENTERS.
SALT LAKE CITY IS IS KIND OF A ANOTHER OUTLIER WITH THE HIGH RISE, THE APARTMENTS, WE'VE GOT MORE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAN SALT LAKE CITY DOES PER SE. WE DID DO A LITTLE TEST OF 101 PROPERTIES THAT WERE ON OUR GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
OF THOSE 101, 50% FAILED AND RECEIVED NOTICES, 49% HAD MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS
[00:40:02]
WHEN IT WAS DONE. WE HAD ALL BUT THREE HOMES COME INTO COMPLIANCE, I BELIEVE.SO THAT WAS GOING THROUGH THE CODE PROCESS. SO THERE IS A PURPOSE.
BUT BUT THE CODE SHOULD DO THAT WITHOUT A GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, RIGHT.
WE COULD STILL ABSOLUTELY BRING THEM INTO COMPLIANCE WITHOUT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
AND MAYBE IF WE DIDN'T RUN IT AND GIVE THEM A DISCOUNT, THEN WE COULD USE THAT.
$1 MILLION HAS BEEN THROWN AROUND. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACCURATE, BUT WE COULD USE THAT MILLION DOLLARS TO INVEST IN MAYBE NOT A SPECIALIZED CODE ENFORCEMENT, BUT SOMEONE THAT REALLY WORKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND BRINGS ALL OF THE PLACES MORE INTO COMPLIANCE.
WHAT'S OUR BUSINESS LICENSE FEE NOW FOR RENTALS WITHOUT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM? IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER IT'S AN APARTMENT, BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, YOU PAY A $44 APPLICATION FEE AND THEN IT'S THEN IT'S $168 FOR THE RENTAL FOR EACH DOOR. EACH RESIDENCE SEPARATELY.
SO IF YOU OWN THREE HOMES, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY THAT 168 ON EACH ONE OF THEM.
SEE WHICH IS PASSED ON TO THE RENTERS. RIGHT.
THAT'S IT. IT DEPENDS ON WHO. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.
WELL, THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE ITEMIZED, BUT IT GOES ON.
YEAH, IT GOES INTO YOUR. SO YOU GET A FREE BREAKFAST AT A HOTEL? NO YOU DON'T.
YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT. IF WE LET'S SAY WE GET RID OF IT.
AND BASED OFF OF, YOU KNOW, CURRENT CONTRACTS OR AGREEMENTS WITH LANDLORDS, ARE THERE ANY LEGAL RISKS OR CHALLENGES JUST OUT OF HYPOTHETICALLY, IF WE GET RID OF IT, HOW THAT WILL AFFECT THE CURRENT CONTRACTS? I DON'T THINK IT WILL AFFECT THE CURRENT CONTRACTS, BUT WHEN THE LEASE TERM COMES UP, I WOULD EXPECT.
EXPECT RENT TO GO UP, RIGHT? IT'LL GO UP, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST $150.
I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THE LANDLORDS WOULD PASS THAT COST ON, BUT WE'RE.
THE CITY IS NOT GOING TO BE IN A SPOT WHERE WE'RE WE'RE EXPOSED TO ANY PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF THOSE.
WHAT ABOUT NOW? THIS IS JUST MY BRAIN THINKING.
LIKE, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK IF THERE'S A WAY WE CAN BALANCE THAT, WHERE IT'S KIND OF A WIN WIN FOR EVERYBODY INSTEAD OF JUST BEING KIND OF A USELESS PROGRAM. IT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT. THE GREAT THING ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION COUNCIL IS THAT WE'RE NOT ASKING THE MONEY IS THERE? IF, IF, IF, IF WE ADJUST THE DISCOUNT, RIGHT.
IF WE SLIDE THAT WE CAN ADJUST THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE.
WE COULD EASILY COMPENSATE FOR ADDITIONAL STAFF OR GREATER ENFORCEMENT.
BUT I WOULD WANT I WOULD ASK THE COUNCIL TO WHAT BENEFIT? WE TALK ABOUT ESTHETICS. WE TALKED ABOUT OTHER THINGS.
AND SO THEY'RE SQUEEZING THAT AND FORCING PEOPLE OUT ONTO OUR STREETS.
WE HAVE ON STREET PARKING ISSUES. AND THERE ARE THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE, RIGHT.
SO IF IF THE COUNCIL DECIDES TO CONTINUE WITH THIS PROGRAM AND THROW RESOURCES INTO IT, I WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER WHAT ELSE BESIDES WEEDS AND OTHER. THE OTHER ISSUE THAT YOU'VE GOT IS A RENTAL PROPERTY THAT'S REALLY NOT A RENTAL PROPERTY, BUT IT'S FOUGHT AGAINST.
REAL MONEY. YEAH, HE DOES TOO. YEAH, I THINK I KNOW OF AT LEAST TWO.
RIGHT NEXT TO RIGHT, EITHER RIGHT NEXT TO OR CLOSE TO JAY'S HOUSE.
SO YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S THE OTHER. IF WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS, WE WE AND WE'VE SEEN WHAT THE LEGISLATURE IS TALKING ABOUT, WE REALLY I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THAT IF WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS, WE ALSO WANT TO DEAL WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS, BECAUSE WE DON'T DEAL WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS RIGHT NOW IN OUR ORDINANCE, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT. RIGHT.
I'M WAITING TO SEE, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE LEGISLATURE WANTS TO DO.
BUT I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE A COMPREHENSIVE PACKAGE OF WHAT DO WE DO WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS? WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE SINGLE FAMILY RENTAL? WHAT DO WE DO? YOU KNOW, THE APARTMENT APARTMENTS ARE WEIRD BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE ROOMMATES, RIGHT? AND YOU CAN DO THAT IN THE SAME IN THE HOUSE, BUT YOU MAY HAVE A ARRANGEMENTS WHERE YOU HAVE LITERALLY A BOARDING HOUSE.
[00:45:02]
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS BECAUSE DOES THE BOARDING HOUSE VIOLATE THE ZONING STANDARD? THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION THAT I'D I'D I'D WANT TO ASK IS OR ARE WE OR ARE OR ARE WE OKAY WITH THAT.WHAT DO WE WANT. AND SO I'M TALKING ABOUT DEALING WITH THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
I'M THINKING THAT WE OUGHT TO ADDRESS COMPREHENSIVELY REAL ESTATE, RENT, RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE RENTALS IN GENERAL. AND THAT INCLUDES ALL, YOU KNOW, THAT INCLUDES SHORT TERM RENTALS, BOARDING HOUSES RENTAL AGREEMENTS AND WHAT ARE THE PARAMETERS THAT WE WANT.
BUT I AGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM. WE NEED TO ASK WHAT OUR GOAL IN LIFE IS.
WE REALLY NEED TO ASK. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT DO WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH RENTAL? I MEAN, WOULD I WANT TO ELIMINATE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THE CITY? I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WE HAVE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TRACK THEM BASED ON THE CURRENT STATE STATUTE OF TRACKING THEM ON THE ON THE ON THE ON THE THERE'S A BILL FOR THAT. I KNOW THERE IS. THAT'S ONE. BUT WE CAN'T TRACK IT.
IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TRACK. BUT IF THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT GIVE US THAT TOOL.
BUT IS THAT DECREASING FROM THE HOUSING STOCK IN WEST JORDAN.
BECAUSE WE GOT A TURNOVER FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST PLAYING AIRBNB TO MAKE MONEY.
IS IS THE IS THE BOARDING HOUSE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE OKAY WITH IN AN R-1 EIGHT ZONE IS YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO ASK THE, YOU KNOW, GET IN THE GET IN THE BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER FROM SOUTH VALLEY REGIONAL AIRPORT AND FLY UP 750 TO 1000FT ABOVE GROUND LEVEL AND REALLY DECIDE WHAT THE OVERARCHING POLICY OUGHT TO BE AND WHAT ARE WE ACCOMPLISHING, TRYING TO WORK WITH THE LANDLORDS.
AND I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN, BUT WHOSE PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO CLEAN UP THE YARD AND, AND, AND WHOSE PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO KEEP THE NOISE DOWN? THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE NEED TO ANSWER TO.
WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS TO THAT POINT AS WELL.
I THINK IT'S FAIR TO LET YOU KNOW AND TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT WHILE, YEAH, WE'VE GOT FAMILY MEMBERS THAT MAY HAVE RENTALS OR WE MAY HAVE RENTALS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF RENTALS ARE GOING TO BE HEALTHY, RIGHT? AND AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IN HOMES, I'M NOT NAMING NAMES, BUT I'M SAYING OKAY, CORPORATE HEALTH.
AND AND SO WHEN, WHEN THE COMPANY OWNS BLOCKS OF HOMES AND, AND WE NEED TO COME IN AND SAY, HEY YOUR TENANTS ARE, ARE CONSTANTLY CAUSING HAVOC.
THEY'RE VIOLATING THE NOISE ORDINANCE. THEIR YARDS ARE.
LET'S GO WITH PARKING. PARKING IS IS AN ISSUE.
AND, AND I, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT WEST JORDAN'S GOING RIGHT NOW.
IS THAT JORDAN BROCK, NOT JUST WEST JORDAN, BUT SPECIFICALLY HERE.
BROCK'S BUSINESS LICENSING FOLKS GET DOZENS OF APPLICATIONS PROBABLY EVERY WEEK FOR COMPANIES RUNNING RENTALS IN THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN AT IN HOMES OR APARTMENTS, HOMES AND APARTMENTS.
BUT HOMES. IT'S IT'S SO WHEN WHEN WE'RE SAYING GOOD LANDLORD, I THINK THERE'S VALUE TO THIS IDEA OF LIKE WHEN, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT LIKE, THIS IS A BUSINESS LICENSING ISSUE.
ARE WE ARE WE TREATING RENTALS LIKE BUSINESSES? ARE WE TREATING HOW ARE WE DEFINING AN OWNER.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IN THE CODE, OWNER ISN'T REALLY DEFINED VERY CLEARLY AS AS BEING.
IS IT JUST ONE PERSON? IS IT THE MANAGER THAT'S RUNNING IT? IS IT THE PERSON THAT THE COMPANY, THE LLC THAT'S HOLDING THE PROPERTY? SO IS OUR FIRST STEP REALLY TO KIND OF CLEAN UP THAT CODE BEFORE WE EVEN START DIVING INTO GOOD LANDLORD? WELL, I WOULD SAY I WOULD SAY THE DISCUSSION IS GREAT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT STAFF KNOWS MUCH ABOUT HOW THE COUNCIL FEELS ABOUT THE PROGRAM AS A WHOLE, OR WHAT THE WHAT YOUR GOALS WITH IT ARE. I THINK I THINK HERE'S WHERE, HERE'S WHERE I WOULD GO IS I,
[00:50:01]
I'M THINKING THAT UNLESS I'VE MISSED SOMETHING, THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM WAS PROBABLY LAST MODIFIED AND PROBABLY 2009, I MIGHT CLOSE. IT'S IT'S IT'S A PROGRAM THAT WAS NOT CREATED BY WEST JORDAN, BUT WE FOLLOWED SOMEONE ELSE'S. RIGHT. AND IT'S IT WAS DESIGNED AND I, I ACTUALLY THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE, YOU KNOW, YOU PUT THE YOU PUT THE, YOU TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT THE WHERE WE'VE COME FROM.IT WAS PROBABLY DESIGNED FOR THAT. MOM AND POP.
ONE Z, TWO Z. THIS IS THE WAY WE CAN GET YOU TO HELP MANAGE YOUR PROPERTY BETTER AS OPPOSED TO AND OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS, WE'LL JUST USE THE TERM DECADE AND A HALF OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS, RENTALS AND THE AND AND RENTAL PHILOSOPHY HAS CHANGED FROM A FAMILY TRUST OR A MOM AND POP TO RH ON THE CORNER OF 48 SOUTH AND AND 948 WEST AND 90TH SOUTH AND OVER IN COPPER RIM AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU'RE RIGHT.
WE HAVE CORPORATE INVESTORS THAT ARE NOW RUNNING THAT.
LITERALLY, LITERALLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST START AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.
FORGET GOOD LANDLORD, FORGET OUR OLD RULES, FORGET EVERYTHING AND SAY THE MARKET'S CHANGED AND WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO WAIT UNTIL THE LEGISLATURE SESSION IS DONE ON SOME OF THIS. BUT THE MARKET'S CHANGED.
WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO TO REVAMP THE ENTIRE CODE WITH A NEW PHILOSOPHY AND CHANGE EVERYTHING.
INSTEAD OF TRYING TO TO STICK 3 OR 4 FINGERS IN THE DIKE AND KNOW THIS WORKED AND THIS DIDN'T, AND JUST, LET'S JUST THE WHOLE DAMN THING. JUMP ON BOARD WITH THAT AND SAY, COULD I WONDER IF WE COULD COULD GET RID OF THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM FOR FOR CORPORATE OWNED HOMES AND JUST HAVE IT AVAILABLE TO MORE ACCOUNTABILITY, HAVE IT AVAILABLE TO LIKE MOM AND POP TYPE THING.
RIGHT NOW, A CORPORATION TAKING A CLASS TO GET A HUGE DISCOUNT ON ALL OF THEIR RENTAL PROPERTIES.
IT DOESN'T GET REDUCED. WHY WOULDN'T WE JUST APPLY THE BETTER STANDARDS TO EVERYBODY? CUT THE FEE DOWN. CLOSER TO WHAT? WHAT THE GOOD LANDLORDS GET.
RIGHT. SO IF IT'S 20 AND 170, LET'S MAKE IT 40 OR 50 AND JUST SAY EVERYBODY PAYS 50. AND AND NOW, NOW YOU'RE EVERYBODY PAYS 50.
AND EVERYBODY'S SUBJECT TO THESE STANDARDS. AND WE KEEP THAT FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY WITH IT.
YOU WANT TO REVISIT THE WHOLE PROGRAM AND SEE IF IT'S MEETING THE INTENT OF THE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION. YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET TO RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT. BUT MY OPINION IS YOU GOT TWO SETS OF STANDARD.
WHY DOESN'T EVERYBODY HAVE TO MEET THE HIGHER STANDARD.
AND EVERYBODY GETS SOME RATE THAT'S IN BETWEEN, RIGHT? MAYOR HAS A COMMENT. MY THOUGHT ON THAT ONE IS BECAUSE GOOD LANDLORD SAYS THEY CHOOSE TO GO INTO IT.
YOU CAN SET HIGHER STANDARDS YOU CAN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE, FOR EXAMPLE, PARKING.
THERE'S ALREADY A CODE THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO REQUIRE. YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT RETROACTIVE FOR THE EXISTING ONES, BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT THE POINT OF THE PROGRAM IS CARRIED ON STAGE.
AND ENFORCEMENT IS EXPENSIVE AND TIME CONSUMING.
AND THAT'S I THINK, PART OF THE QUESTION. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH? I THINK THE GOAL IS TO SAVE THE CITY MONEY, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE IT IS.
IT'S TO COLLECT THAT AND MAKE SURE WE ALL GET THAT.
[00:55:02]
WHAT CAN WE REQUIRE LANDLORD TENANTS TO? WHAT CAN WE REQUIRE THE LANDLORDS AND TENANTS TO DO? WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT? WHAT WE WANT. WHAT'S THE OUTCOME AT THE END? I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE A GOOD SET OF STANDARDS AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE EXPECT, AND WHAT WITH ONE SET OF STANDARDS, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU AND YEAH, WE MIGHT LOSE A CARROT, BUT THE BUT WE'RE MAKING A COMPROMISE TO SAY WE'RE DOING THIS.BUT WE KNOW WHAT THE CLEAR EXPECTATIONS ARE. I WILL TELL YOU THAT AS A LANDLORD UNDER THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, MY MY TENANT HAD, WE'D SOMETIMES IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY TO GO OVER WITH THE WEED EATER AND CUT IT DOWN EVERY WEEK.
DO I HAVE TO HIRE A LANDSCAPE CREW TO GO OVER AND LANDSCAPE IT EVERY WEEK? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE WONDERING? WELL, BUT IT DOES.
BUT IF IF IT'S A TYPICAL IF IT'S A TYPICAL LANDLORD RENTAL.
HECK, MY WIFE HAD TO DEAL WITH AN ISSUE THE OTHER DAY OVER ON A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THAT A COMMON AIR CONDITIONER BECAME THE STORE'S PROBLEM, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ON THE ROOF AND WAS SHARED BY EVERYBODY.
OH, YOU'RE STUCK WITH PAYING IT AS THE TENANT? WELL, IT'S LIKE YOU AND YOU COSIGN A CAR. IF THEY DON'T START PAYING, THEN IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
IF I'M A NEIGHBOR, A NEIGHBOR, AND THE RENTER IS NOT TAKING CARE OF THE HOUSE, I BLAME THE THE OWNER, NOT THE RENTER. AND JUST LET THE RENTER DOES HAVE SOME OBLIGATION UNDER THE RENT TO NOT LAY WASTE, BUT IF THE RENTER IS NOT DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, THEN IT'S THE OWNER. AND AS A CITY, WE BLAME THE OWNER BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY DON'T APPLY AND THEY GET FINES AND THEY DON'T PAY IT, IT BECOMES A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY.
SO ULTIMATELY, WE'RE HOLDING THE OWNER. AND THE CATALYST TO REMEMBER IS THAT IF THEY DON'T COMPLY WITH THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, WE CAN REVOKE THEIR CERTIFICATION AND BUMP THEM INTO THE HIGHER FEE STRUCTURE.
RIGHT. WE'RE NOT SAYING, HEY, YOU CAN'T HAVE A RENTAL IN THE IN THE CITY.
WE'RE JUST SAYING AT THAT AT THAT STAGE, YOU'RE NOT QUALIFYING FOR THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
REDUCED RATES BECAUSE OF THE WEEDS. HOW OFTEN HAVE WE DONE THAT? HOW OFTEN NOT? OKAY, THEN. IT'S NOT THAT I KNOW OF, BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAIN REASON FOR THAT IS, IS MAYBE A LACK OF OF ABILITY AND RESOURCES BECAUSE CODE ENFORCEMENT IS ROLLING GOING AROUND, BUT I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVEN'T DONE IT, BUT BROCK HAS USED IT AS AN EFFECTIVE THREAT NUMEROUS TIMES.
YES. IT'S INTERESTING. AGAIN, JUST WE'VE GOT A CODE THAT EVERYONE CAN BECOME A MEMBER VERY EASILY.
AND I HAD A GUY ONE TIME JUST TO GO BACK TO THE SALARY THING.
ONE OF MY FIRST CALLS I GOT WAS A GUY WHO I, I TOLD HIM I NEEDED TO GO.
I WAS TALKING TO HIM ON THE ON MY PHONE IN THE CAR, AND I TOLD HIM I HAD TO GO IN TO GET MY DAD'S MEDICATION AND HE SAID, NO, YOU'LL SIT AND LISTEN TO ME UNTIL I'M DONE BECAUSE I PAY YOUR SALARY.
SO THAT'S AND THAT'S NOT THE ONLY CALL I'VE GOTTEN THAT SAID, THAT'S NOT MY SALARY.
STUFF GETS ME. I'M LIKE, DUDE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M PAYING.
BUT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS AND IT TURNED OUT AND I COULD TELL HE WAS JUST A BAD LANDLORD.
BUT HE GOES, NO, I AM A PART OF THE GOOD LANDLORD SYSTEM.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M DEMANDING THAT I GET THE SERVICES I'M SUPPOSED TO GET.
AND THAT WAS ON MY EARLY TIMES. AND I THOUGHT, JEEZ, I NEED TO LOOK INTO THIS GOOD LANDLORD SYSTEM.
I WOULD RATHER SEE US DO SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY REWARDING PEOPLE.
WHO ARE WE SET A HIGHER STANDARD, AND THEN WE REWARD THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ABOVE.
BUT IF OUR GOAL IS FOR THAT BETTER COMMUNITY, BETTER CITY.
BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE WE'RE COLLECTING LESS MONEY AND NOT GETTING ANYTHING IN RETURN FOR IT.
OR AT LEAST NOTHING THAT WE CAN SHOW ANYONE. YEAH.
THEN YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU'VE GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND, OR YOU'VE GONE A YEAR WITHOUT A POLICE.
YOU KNOW, CALL AND ANYTHING, WHATEVER WE COME UP WITH.
I DON'T WANT TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO HAVE RENTALS IN THE CITY.
IF WE'RE GETTING THAT MANY THAT ARE BUYING UP OUR HOMES, IT CHANGES THE CULTURE OF THE CITY.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE. PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE LONG TERM, IT CHANGES.
[01:00:06]
SO THE THE MULTIFAMILY, THE THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD BE ASKING AS WELL IS WHAT WHICH ONES ARE CAUSING THE BIGGER PROBLEMS. IS IT THE MULTIFAMILY UNITS? BECAUSE THE MULTIFAMILY UNITS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS GOING TO BE A CORPORATE OWNED RIGHT.THERE. IS IT THE MULTIFAMILY UNITS? IS IT, YOU KNOW, IS IT STATION OF GARDNER MILL? IS IT THE ASPEN? IS IT THE ONES OUT BY CISCO? IS IT BROOKSIDE OR WHATEVER THAT ONE IS? THAT CAN'T KEEP THE WATER LINE FROM NOT BREAKING? IS IS IT THOSE THAT ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEM? IS IT THE ONESIES AND TWOSIES? THE SINGLE FAMILY ONES ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEM.
I I PROBLEMS. WHAT'S THAT? SERVICE CALLS. I JUST USE JUST GENERAL.
WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ESTHETICS FOR ME VERSUS CODE ENFORCEMENT CALLS.
MORE THAN BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT POLICE AND FIRE ARE GOING TO GO TO THAT.
THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION. RIGHT. TO ME IT WOULD BE CODE FROM A CODE ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT.
WE VERY RARELY EVER GO TO THE THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
THEY LIKE WILLOW COVE. THEY MANAGE THEMSELVES.
WHERE YOUR APARTMENT COMPLEXES HAVE STAFF THAT DO THAT.
THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES ARE GOING TO MORE LIKELY HAVE POLICE BECAUSE THERE'S JUST MORE PEOPLE THERE.
YES, EXACTLY. YEAH, YEAH. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE I WOULD JUST THINK THAT AS WE WANT TO LOOK AT THIS, WE WOULD WANT TO HAVE SOME OF THAT DATA. YEAH.
DON'T TELL CLINT. HE SAID BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHERE I'M GOING IS, YOU KNOW, WE DO SEE THE CODE ENFORCEMENT HANDLING THE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES MORE. AND WHAT'S OUR FOCUS AND, AND AND THOSE MULTIFAMILY, THOSE MULTIFAMILY, IF THEY'RE MAINTAINING IT, THEY'RE PROBABLY PRETTY EASY TO INSPECT BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S A LOT OF UNITS, BUT YOU CAN DRIVE THROUGH THE COMPLEX, RIGHT. AND JUST SEE WHAT IT'S DOING. SO BECAUSE THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DRIVE THROUGH STATION AT GARDNER MILL AND IN 30S AND SEE IF THEIR LANDSCAPING IS FINE FOR 272 UNITS. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT I, YOU KNOW, WE CAN I THINK WE NEED SOME DATA AND I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT DOES DOES IS THE, IS THE CORPORATE OWNER OR THE MULTIFAMILY.
SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ESTHETICS VERSUS POLICE, WE REALLY OUGHT TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE WANT AND AND REALLY TRY TO DO SOME DATA DRIVEN DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE WE WANT TO GO.
SO YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING. I THINK SO. AND CHAIR.
IS IT OKAY IF I ASK? KIND OF PULL THE QUESTION.
YEAH. SO I KIND OF WANT TO WRAP THIS UP SO, SO REAL QUICK, I ASKED THE QUESTION, I THINK WHERE WE'RE GOING FROM, ALL OF US, IS WE WANT TO REVISE THIS PROGRAM.
IT'S CALLED THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM OR NOT, SO THAT IT IS SUFFICIENT TO THE ROCKS TEAM AND ALSO SUFFICIENT SO THAT WE'RE NOT SPENDING A LOT OF TIME WITH THE POLICE AND FIRE. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE POLICE AND FIRE ARE THE APARTMENTS AND ROCKS TEAM IS MORE OF THE SINGLE FAMILY.
SO I WOULD KIND OF LIKE I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE IS A GOOD START, BUT MAYBE WE HAVE 2 OR 3 OF US GET TOGETHER WITH YOU GUYS AND START LOOKING AT WHAT WE CAN DO FOR A NEW PROGRAM THAT IS BETTER THAN THIS.
THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR BOTH THE CITY AND THE RESIDENTS.
YOUR QUESTION. SO YEAH. CORBIN, SORRY, YOU'RE IN MY.
SORRY. OKAY. THAT'S THAT'S PERFECT. WE. YEAH, IN ORDER TO GET THE DATA TO REALLY SPEND A LOT OF STAFF TIME WE NEED TO KNOW GENERALLY IS THE COUNCIL AND I KNOW IT'S WE WANT WE WANT AN IMPROVED GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
WHATEVER. THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR RENTAL, THERE'S A POTENTIAL THAT COULD REALLY DO GOOD.
I MEAN, I'M KIND OF LEANING TO JUST LET'S JUST GET RID OF IT.
AND I'M I'M THERE TO I'M OKAY TO JUST SAY, I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT.
I'VE HEARD, I'VE HEARD WE WANT TO GET RID OF THIS, BUT MAKE IT BETTER. MAKE IT BETTER.
YES, I UPDATED, ESPECIALLY WITH CORPORATE HOUSING.
MY QUESTION TO SCOTT WOULD BE IF WE GOT RID OF THE GOOD LANDLORD LANDLORD PROGRAM IS IS GONE.
[01:05:06]
JUST YOUR GENERAL FEEL FOR IT. HOW HOW IT'S RUNNING.MAYBE BROCK CAN SPEAK TO THIS. THAT'S ONE LESS TOOL THAT WE WOULD HAVE FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT TO USE, BUT WE WOULD STILL CONTINUE TO RESPOND TO THE SAME AMOUNT OF CALLS WE DO NOW WITH OUR CURRENT STAFFING.
JUST LESS MONEY. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WOULD BE IS THE REVENUES THAT ARE GENERATED AND THE LACK.
IT REMOVES THAT ONE TOOL IN OUR TOOL BELT TO SAY, LOOK, IF YOU DON'T COME INTO COMPLIANCE, YOU WILL LOSE THIS. IF THEY DON'T COME INTO COMPLIANCE, THEY'VE GOT FINES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY ANYWAY.
THEY DO THEIR PENANCE. IT HAS THINK ABOUT THIS FROM A FROM A BACKWARDS STANDPOINT.
IF WE HAVE A LANDLORD THAT CONTINUALLY GETS THE THIS VIOLATES THE STANDARDS.
JACK. THEY'RE THERE. JACK. THEIR BUSINESS LICENSE FEE UP.
IT'S A REVERSE CARROT, BUT IT WORKS. THAT'S WHAT IT DOES.
IT'S A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT DISCUSSION LIKE WE HAD WITH BUSINESS LICENSE FEES.
YOU'RE RIGHT COUNCIL, THAT THIS DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT COST OR JUST SEEMS LIKE WITH THE TREND TO MORE CORPORATE OWNED RENTALS THAT'S HAPPENING THAT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM DOESN'T HAVE THE EFFECT IT USED TO HAVE.
AND IT JUST GIVES INCENTIVE FOR CORPORATIONS TO WANT TO COME TO WEST JORDAN.
I THINK THIS IS GOING TO PEOPLE SAY, OH, THEY'VE GOT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM. LET'S GO THERE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S HAPPENING. IF YOU LOOK AT IN THE BIG PICTURE, MAYBE NOT, BUT IT DOESN'T HURT. I'M JUST SAYING, I DON'T KNOW THAT.
IT'S THE SAME NUMBER OF CODE ENFORCEMENT CALLS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN EITHER WAY.
THAT COST IS FIXED. THAT'S WHY I'M THINKING. WHAT? IT'S COSTING THE CITY MONEY. LOOK AT A HYBRID PROGRAM THAT BALANCES THOSE INCENTIVES AND OFFERS THAT THAT STRICTER ENFORCEMENT OPTION THAT HELPS YOU GUYS JUST MAKES THE JOB MORE COMPLICATED FOR PROPERTY.
THERE'S IF YOU TAKE ONE APARTMENT COMPLEX, JUST FOR INSTANCE, I MEAN, IN YOUR ANNUAL BUSINESS LICENSE FOR RENTALS IS 15,000 A YEAR, YOU GET RID OF GOOD LANDLORD AND IT'S JUST OVER 100,000 A YEAR.
THAT'S A BIG INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO STAY AND COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
WHEN WE GO TO THEM AND SAY, YOU'RE NOT LOSING JUST THIS ONE RENTAL, YOU'RE LOSING ALL OF YOURS BECAUSE YOU NO LONGER ARE A GOOD LANDLORD STATUS MEMBER. THEY LOSE ALL THEIR RENTALS. SO YOU JUST BUMPED THEM BY 86, $85,000, EVERYONE'S RENT.
YEAH, THAT GETS THEIR ATTENTION. AND WE GET VERY GOOD COMPLIANCE AT THAT RATE, IF THEY GO, IF THEY TAKE THAT AND THEY SAY, OKAY, EVERYBODY'S RENT JUST WENT UP $100 A MONTH TO COMPENSATE FOR IT, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO START CHARGING STRICTLY BASED ON MARKET MARKET, NOT ON THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DISPROPORTIONATE FEES, THE LANDLORD THAT KEEPS GETTING THE CITATIONS FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT IS DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTING OUR SERVICES, RIGHT? AND SO WHY CAN'T WE SAY YOUR BASELINE IS HERE? AND BY THE WAY, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A COUPLE OF TICKETS AND YOU'RE YOU'RE IT GOES HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE COMING OUT. THAT TO ME THAT'S PROPORTIONATE. TO ME THAT'S PROPORTIONATE.
THAT'S IT'S A LOT OF WORK BUT IT'S A LOT OF WORK.
BUT. SO WE MUDDIED THE WATERS ENOUGH FOR YOU GUYS? YEAH. YEAH. SO IS THERE ENOUGH SUPPORT? CAN I JUST SEE A SHOW OF HANDS? IS THERE ENOUGH SUPPORT TO CALL A REVISION OF OF THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM? IS IT WORTH TAKING A SHOT ON TWO, THREE, FOUR.
WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU SAY. REVISION. I'D LIKE TO TOSS IT OUT AND START OVER.
TOTALLY TOSS IT OUT. START OVER? YEAH. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOSS AND START OVER.
YEAH. I MEAN WE CAN ALSO LOOK AT WE CAN LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT TIERS.
YOU COULD DO THE APARTMENT TIER AND THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME TIER.
BUT BUT AT LEAST THERE'S AN ITERATION OF A PROGRAM.
YEAH, I GO DO DO YOU FEEL IT'S WORTHWHILE HAVING SOMETHING YOU WANT SOMETHING? I THINK THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM COULD BE AS IF YOU PUT THE RESOURCES TOWARDS ENFORCING IT.
[01:10:03]
BECAUSE WE CAN'T. THAT, ADDS THE AVERAGE OFFICER, DOES ABOUT 700 CASES A YEAR.WE JUST DID OVER 2000 THIS LAST YEAR. IF YOU WANT TO THROW 1500 APARTMENTS OR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES INTO IT, THERE'S GOING TO BE REQUIRING STAFF TO GO OUT AND DO THOSE INSPECTIONS ANNUALLY.
I THINK IT COULD BE A BENEFIT. THE ONE TEST WE RAN, WE HAD OVER 90% COMPLIANCE RATE IN ONE AREA.
AND I THINK IT COULD BE IF, IF PUT FORTH THE RIGHT WAY.
IF YOU DON'T GO AFTER THEM AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE COMPLIANT, THEY MIGHT NOT BE. THEN WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET CALLS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT A PROPERTY, AS WE CURRENTLY DO THAT RENTAL DOWN THE STREET.
YUP. YUP. IT MAY NOT EVEN BE KIND OF LIKE THE IDEA OF REVERSE CARROT.
OKAY. THE CALVIN'S IDEA OF REVERSE CARROT, OF SAYING, HEY, YOUR YOUR YOUR FEE PER DOOR IS X, AND IF YOU HAVE THIS MANY CALLS, THIS MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO COME OUT WITH A PROPORTIONATE FEE WILL BE APPLIED.
AND THAT IS CURRENTLY THE WAY THE PROGRAM IS.
YOU PAY $21 PER DOOR. IF YOU LOSE YOUR STATUS, IT GOES UP TO 170.
PER DOOR. SO, YOU KNOW. AND THAT'S FOR ALL YOUR PROPERTIES.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM.
AND I THINK WE'RE BEING TOO GENEROUS ON. YEAH I THINK I DON'T THINK WE'RE CHARGING ENOUGH.
WE'RE BEING TOO GENEROUS IN THE DISCOUNT. IF WE WERE TO TO ADMINISTER WHATEVER THIS PROGRAM IS COUNCIL MEMBER, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADJUST THAT, THAT THAT IS TOO LOW.
YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. CAN I THROW SOMETHING OUT? COUNCILMAN. SORRY. I'M SORRY. THE RIGHT NOW THAT IT'S $21 A DOOR.
AS THE DISCOUNTED BASE RATE, IF THAT WENT UP 40, IF THAT WENT UP 20 BY $20 PER DOOR TO $41 PER DOOR, THAT WOULD GENERATE ABOUT $160,000 A YEAR. THAT'S ABOUT ENOUGH MONEY TO HIRE A POSITION TO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM.
SO IT WAS LISTED DOLLARS HERE WAS THAT IF WE ADJUST IT FOR HOW MUCH HOUSING AND RENTAL COSTS.
NOW PERCENTAGE MORE. EXACTLY, EXACTLY. I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS A NEW PROBE WILL REWORK A PROGRAM AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON IT. BUT IF THE PROGRAM IS GOING TO WORK WELL, IT NEEDS TO BE ADMINISTERED WELL AND WE'LL NEED TO HAVE FUNDING, AND THE FUNDING CAN COME AND IT CAN COME FROM THEM.
YEAH. YEAH. I WOULD LOOK AND SEE WHAT OTHER CITIES ARE CHARGED.
OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANKS, MAN.
ALL RIGHT. THANKS, JOHN. SCOTT, BROCK AND PATRICK DOING WELL.
THAT WAS THAT WAS AN INTERESTING 45 MINUTES. WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.
NO, I THINK I THINK WE GAVE THEM INSTRUCTIONS AND THE INSTRUCTION WAS LET'S RETOOL THIS THING.
YEAH. JUST JUST WHEN WE COME BACK, YOU'RE GOING TO HATE IT.
I MEAN, I MEAN, THAT'S THE THAT'S THE FEAR. CONFIDENCE.
WHEN YOU'RE SAYING THIS ISN'T WHAT WE WANTED, WE'RE LIKE, OH NO, IT MIGHT BE A START FOR SOME CONVERSATION, SO YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT.
YEAH FOR SURE. SO LEGISLATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE MESSY TO GET IT RIGHT.
IT SHOULD BE MESSY. WE DO HAVE AN ESTIMATE ON SHORT TERM RENTALS AND STUFF.
SO THE DIFFERENCE IS SHORT TERM, LIKE A YEAR OR TWO YEARS, LESS THAN LESS THAN 30 DAYS, 30 DAYS, 30 DAYS. AIRBNB. SO, YOU KNOW, AND IF THEY'RE RENTING IT FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS, WE'RE MISSING OUT ON THE HOTEL TAX, WHICH IS. YOU'RE RIGHT. RIGHT. YES. WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE GIVEN YOU A CHANCE TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK CAN WORK AND THAT YOU WANT TO DO.
SO THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE YOU. SO WE WON'T DISAPPOINT SCOTT.
CITY CODE 1313 FIVE. WATER EFFICIENCY STANDARDS.
THIS WAS BROUGHT TO US BY COUNCIL MEMBERS WHITELOCK AND SHELTON, WHO GRACIOUSLY YOU KNOW, WENT AROUND WITH OUR TEAM AND TOOK PART OF THIS KIND OF TANGENTIALLY.
WHERE IS IT? THE TABLE. OKAY, GOOD. SO DO YOU WANT TO KICK US OFF? COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK? SURE. SO THIS, AS YOU ALLUDED TO, OCCURRED BECAUSE COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON AND MYSELF TOOK UP THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO ON A RIDE ALONG WITH THE NEW I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS TITLE IS, BUT HE'S IN CODE ENFORCEMENT. MR.. GO GO GO. IS THAT HOW HE SAYS HIS NAME? THEY GO. THEY GO. THANK YOU. AND HE HE EXPRESSED A
[01:15:03]
CONCERN THAT OUR CODE DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO ACTUALLY ENFORCE BECAUSE OF THE WORDING.SO SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF IS IN STATE CODE, IT'S OUR OUR 653 DASH.
11 9182 STATES WATER EFFICIENT PLANTS AND SHRUBS EXCLUDING TREE CANOPY COVER 50% OR MORE OF THE PROJECT AREA AT MATURITY. AND THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY NO MORE THAN 35% OF THE FRONT AND SIDE YARD CAN BE IN LAWN. OUR CODE SAYS THAT IT'S SUGGESTED. SO I'M HERE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT TO SAY, LET'S GET RID OF THE VESTED IN THE 50% AND HAVE IT REQUIRED TO MATCH.
BASICALLY MATCH UP WITH THE STATE CODE, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WHEN WE PUT IT TOGETHER THAT OUR IDEA WAS THAT THE YARD COULD JUST BE ALL ROCK. AND ON THE RCA THERE IS A THING THAT TALKS ABOUT HEAT ZONES, WHICH I'M SORRY THAT I KEEP TALKING ABOUT THEM, BUT IT REALLY CHANGES THE ECOLOGY OF IT, AN ECOSYSTEM OF AN AREA.
SO I'M GOING TO TAKE IT. MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER A QUESTION WITH THE COUNTERPOINT.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE BROCK GO OUT AND MEASURE AND SAY WHETHER OR NOT THIS YARD'S GOT 50% REQUIRED LANDSCAPING IN THEIR FRONT YARD AT MATURITY.
AT MATURITY. SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE SAYING WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS WE BUILD A HOUSE TODAY.
WHAT'S AT MATURITY? HOW ARE WE GOING TO MEASURE IT? HOW WE'RE GOING TO ENFORCE IT? I'M NOT GOING DOWN THAT ROAD BECAUSE THAT'S TOO DIFFICULT.
SO FROM WHAT I GATHERED IN THIS IS WE NEED TO LOOK AT REVISITING THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS, POSSIBLY LOOSENING SOME TO ADDRESS ENFORCEMENT AND ESTHETIC CONCERNS.
DID I GET THIS RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I GOT FROM THE HOMEWORK.
OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. SO SO YOU WANT TO LESSEN THE LANDSCAPE STANDARDS SO PEOPLE WILL USE MORE WATER? NOT NECESSARILY LESSENING. REVISING SOME OF THE WORDING, SO IT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR BOTH THE OWNER AND FOR CODE.
THEY JUST THEY JUST LIVE. SEE, I KNOW THAT THE POLICY SAYS SUGGESTED IF IT SAID NO MORE THAN 50%.
I COULD I COULD LIVE WITH THAT. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE 50% OR MORE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S JUST THAT'S OPENING US UP TO SAYING WE'RE GOING TO IF IT'S IF IT'S A TOUGH WATER YEAR, WE'RE GOING TO SEND OUT EVERYBODY AND WE'RE GOING TO START MEASURING PLANTS.
THIS IS WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, SO WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WIN WIN SITUATION.
I GOT A HOUSE WITH A FULL FRONT LAWN. BUT IT'S ALSO WHEN YOU REDO YOUR LANDSCAPING.
IF YOU GET A PERMIT. RIGHT. WELL, NO ONE'S GONNA PULL A PERMIT FOR I JUST.
RIGHT. I'LL JUST CHANGE IT MYSELF. I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU OKAY IF EVERYBODY IN YOUR.
IN OUR EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS JUST PUT IN ALL ROCK AND HAVE NO GREEN.
I KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT DO THIS. WHY? OKAY.
OTHER THAN A QUARTER ACRE HEAT ISLAND, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH IT? WE DON'T LIKE HOW IT LOOKS, SO WE DON'T THINK ANYBODY ELSE SHOULD HAVE IT.
IS THAT THE ISSUE? HOMEOWNER BOUGHT THE PLACE AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.
NOT EVERYBODY ON THE STREET IS GOING TO DO THAT EVER.
RIGHT. WELL THAT'S TRUE, BUT I MEAN, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH IT.
[01:20:01]
THERE'S A HOUSE THAT BACKS UP TO 6400 WEST IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.THEIR BACKYARD IS ALL ROCK. NOW, I KNOW FROM OUR DISCUSSION ON CERTAIN HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS THAT PEOPLE WANT YARDS SO THEY CAN THROW BASEBALLS AROUND, AND THEIR LITTLE KIDS ARE GOING TO COME TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND COMPLAIN THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A YARD TO THROW A BASEBALL IN. WHEN THIS GUY'S GOT A QUARTER ACRE LOT AND IT'S ALL ROCKS, AND I'M NOT TALKING LITTLE ROCKS, I'M TALKING BASEBALL SIZED ROCKS.
LIKE BASEBALL. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, BUT IT'S HIS LAWN.
IT'S NOT MY LAWN. I MEAN, HIS GRANDKIDS HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AND RUN AROUND AND SCRAPE THEIR KNEES.
IS THAT IS THAT. WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR THOUGHTS SINCE YOU CO-SPONSORED WELL, THE.
I LIKE I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING A 50% COVERAGE AND I JUST PLANTED IN MY YARD.
THIS MAY SOUND SILLY, BUT I PLANTED A SAGEBRUSH.
BUT IT'S. BUT I DON'T BLOW AWAY WHEN IT GETS WINDY. I DON'T IRRIGATE THE THING.
IT JUST. AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NEXT TO IT, I'VE GOT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OLD NAME FOR IT IS, BUT BRAMBLE. OAK. IT'S LIKE A SAGE OR A SCRUB OAK.
I'D LIKE TO INCREASE THAT. BUT DOING THAT VERSUS.
THEY WON'T REQUIRE ANY IRRIGATION. WE CAN DO THINGS IN OUR YARDS, MAKE THEM BEAUTIFUL, AND NOT JUST HAVE ROT AND IMPROVE THE ESTHETIC OF OUR CITY.
BUT WHAT YOUR. AND I'M GOING TO TAKE THE. I'M GOING TO TAKE THE DEVIL'S ADVOCACY HERE.
ARE WE IMPOSING ON EVERY LOT IN THE CITY THAT YOUR LOT MUST HAVE 50% PROPERTY? IT'S ONLY FOR NEW. BUT THINK ABOUT THIS. IT'S ONLY FOR NEW THAT MOST OF OUR LANDSCAPE STANDARDS WERE FOR NEW PROPERTIES.
AND THEN AFTER A YEAR, SOMEBODY SAYS, YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T WANT THOSE SIX PLANTS. I'M RIPPING THEM UP.
I DIDN'T LIKE HIM. I'M PUTTING ROCKS THERE. NOW THEY'RE NOT 50%.
ARE WE GOING TO GO BACK AND SAY, OH, WE DON'T LIKE THAT DOESN'T MEAN WHAT WE WANT.
WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS LOOKING GOOD. BUT IT'S I WILL TELL I WILL TELL YOU SOME OF THE BEST XERISCAPE LOCAL SCAPE HOMES. TWO OF THEM IN THE CITY ARE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM MR. DAVENPORT'S. DOES THIS EVEN MATTER WITH HOAS? I MEAN, THEY HAVE WITH WITH SO MANY NEW DEVELOPMENTS BEING HOAS.
ANYWAYS, IS THIS EVEN A DISCUSSION THAT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE? AT LEAST HAVE THEIR OWN? BY STATE LAW, WE CANNOT ENFORCE THEIR CARRIES ANYWAY.
YEAH, ONE OF THE GAME CHANGING THINGS REGARDING LANDSCAPING.
YEARS AGO WE USED TO WE COULD HOLD UP OCCUPANCY UNTIL THEIR THEIR LANDSCAPE.
THERE WERE A LOT OF ISSUES AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN DOING THAT FOR MANY YEARS.
SO WITHOUT WITHOUT A REQUIREMENT FOR A PLAN, IT'S HARD TO MEASURE THAT 80%.
NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO TO TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE.
WE WE CAN REQUIRE A CERTAIN PERCENT IN, IN LADDER BEDS OR SOMETHING THAT'S EASIER TO, TO MEASURE.
PLANTS AT MATURITY ARE HARD TO PICK. ARE THERE ARE THERE OPPORTUNITIES TO SIMPLIFY THE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS BUT ALSO REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH WITH THESE GUIDELINES? IS THERE A BALANCE THERE? WE COULD WE COULD GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
YOU KNOW IT. MAYOR CORBIN SAID THIS IN THE ON THE LAST ISSUE.
IN ORDER TO HAVE A GOOD CODE, YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO ADMINISTER IT AND COUNCIL MEMBER.
BUT YOU KNOW, IF IF THE IF THE COUNCIL WANTS TO GIVE STAFF DIRECTION.
[01:25:01]
WE CAN ROLL THAT AROUND, AND WE CAN TRY TO FIGURE OUT A GOOD PROCESS TO ADMINISTER THAT, THAT CODE.WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON IT? WHAT DOES DOES SOMETHING NEED TO CHANGE? IT'S DIFFICULT FOR US BECAUSE YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO HAS A FRONT LAWN THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO WATER IT AND PAY THE FEES FOR IT.
AND THIS THIS ALL STARTED CHANGE, I BELIEVE, BACK WHEN GOVERNOR COX SAID, STOP WATERING YOUR LAWN.
SO IT'S ARE WE GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO MAINTAIN THEIR LAWN AND WATER IT TO MAKE SURE IT'S GREEN? AND IF WE DON'T, THEN IT BECOMES IT'S NOT 50% OF.
LIVE VEGETATION. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE.
WHEN IT'S THERE. IT'S RECOMMENDED THAT IT'S 50%.
THE WORD OF THE NIGHT IS BALANCE. WHAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE LANDSCAPE STANDARDS THAT WE ADOPTED TO ENSURE ALL EXISTING HOUSES IN THE CITY HAD 50%? I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE INTENT.
WAS NEW CONSTRUCTION, WASN'T IT? AND SO THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE OKAY THAT THEY AND OKAY, TAKE ROCKS OFF THE TABLE, BUT WE'RE OKAY IF THEY JUST LET THEIR YARD DIE AND THEY HAVE NO LANDSCAPING BECAUSE NOW IT'S JUST DEAD AND DIRT.
A NEW DEVELOPMENT HOA WOULD NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN.
BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR EXISTING. I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OUR FUTURE.
YEAH, BUT THESE ARE. THE AREAS THAT WE WERE IN THAT THE CONCERN WAS IN WERE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOME NEIGHBORHOODS, THAT THEY'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF THEIR YARDS.
AND THEY CAN'T I DON'T KNOW, I CAN KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND ASK, PROBABLY.
AND WE WERE TOLD THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OUR LANDSCAPING STANDARDS.
SO IF WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT AND WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE CITY LOOKS LIKE, WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT.
THAT WAS THE CONCERN THAT WAS BROUGHT UP TO ME IS, IS WHEN WE DROVE PAST, I WAS TOLD THAT WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF OUR CODE SAYING THAT IT'S SUGGESTED. SO THE SOLUTION TO MAKE IT ALL IS JUST 50 OVER 50 AND THAT WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING.
GIVING THEM SOME POWER TO FALL BACK ON. WE'LL SOLVE.
WE'LL GET BACK INTO WHAT THEY DO WITH THE 50 THAT THEY ARE MAKING.
LIKE THEY CAN DO WHATEVER, YOU KNOW. THAT'S WHY I'M JUST I'M WONDERING IF WE'RE IF WE'RE REALLY SOLVING WHAT THE REAL PROBLEM SO WHAT WERE YOU GUYS THINKING? WELL, IT'S JUST WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING IS WHEN IS THE CUTOFF CONSIDERED? NEW DEVELOPMENT. IS IT? WHEN THE CODE WAS WRITTEN AND ADOPTED.
I WAS DISCUSSING WHY THEY COULDN'T. WHAT WERE SOME OF THE OBSTACLES? THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE SAYING. WHATEVER YOU DO, LET'S MAKE SURE WE COVER ALL ALL OF THE OBSTACLES SO THAT YOU GET YOUR DESIRED OUTCOME.
YOUR DESIRED OUTCOME IS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS NICE.
THAT'S WHAT YOU LOOK AT. 35. THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE OTHER QUESTION WAS CALLING THE BOY SCOUTS OPTION COUNCIL MEMBER OK BROUGHT THIS TO ME AND SAID ENFORCEMENT IS REQUIRING PEOPLE TO HAVE THEIR YARDS LANDSCAPED BY BOTH DAKOTA AND NORTH DAKOTA. THEY HAVE LANDSCAPES, AND THAT'S WHEN WE SAW THE WORD SUGGESTED THERE.
I THINK. FOR OUR STAFF, WE REALLY LIKE TO DO IS JUST REQUIRE PEOPLE ON OUR LANDSCAPE NOT WORRIED ABOUT 30 OR 40% LANDSCAPE OR NOT LANDSCAPE RIGHT NOW. WHAT WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF LANDS? WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF LANDSCAPE? THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
AND AND GIVE US THAT DEFINITION. BUT RIGHT NOW WE DON'T EVEN REQUIRE TO BE LANDSCAPES.
SO THEY NEED TO PLANT SOMETHING OR DESIGN IT I DON'T KNOW.
AND SHE WON. SO AND AND IN FAIRNESS, OUR OPEN SPACES ARE THE EXACT SAME THING.
OUR OPEN SPACES ARE WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO. DON'T WANT TO LET SOMEBODY WITH A HOUSE HAVE.
SO HOW CAN WE HOLD THEM TO STANDARDS WHEN OUR OPEN SPACES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.
SO DO YOU WANT TO REQUIRE LANDSCAPING OR NOT? I MEAN, WE NEED A LANDSCAPE FOR OPEN SPACES. YOU WANT TO REQUIRE LANDSCAPING? NOT REALLY WHAT I'M ASKING. I'M JUST SAYING I'M JUST PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE.
SO ARE WE REQUIRE LANDSCAPING OR NOT, IS THE QUESTION.
[01:30:02]
WELL, IT'S GOING TO COST THE CITY A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO LANDSCAPE.OUR JOB IS NOT TO GUARANTEE PROPERTY. WE DON'T HAVE A ROLE IN IN ANY SORT OF STATE STATUTE OR CONSTITUTION, IN STATE CONSTITUTION OR FEDERAL CONSTITUTION THAT OUR GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN PROPERTY VALUES.
WE KEEP TALKING, THOUGH. WE WANT TO WORK ON THE ESTHETICS OF THE CITY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THOMAS JEFFERSON WROTE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE FIRST WITH THE WITH THAT.
AMONG THOSE RIGHTS ARE LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW, PROPERTY IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY.
AND SO THEN WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, WELL, BUT WE'RE GOING TO DICTATE TO YOU HOW YOU'RE GOING TO OWN RUN YOUR PROPERTY AND WE'RE GOING TO WE CAN ENFORCE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON YOU. AND I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO GO DOWN THAT WAY.
SO. THAT WE MAKE PEOPLE KEEP THEIR TREES TRIMMED AT A CERTAIN HEIGHT.
YEAH. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT? HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT? YOU'RE ALREADY DOING THAT. AND YOU'VE ALREADY VOTED TO DO THAT.
WHERE THAT'S DIFFERENT IS WHEN YOU'RE RESTRICTING SOMEBODY'S RIGHTS IN ANY WAY.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST TO RESTRICT THOSE RIGHTS.
IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST TO REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO HAVE X NUMBER OF BLADES OF GRASS ON THEIR FRONT LAWN VERSUS X NUMBER OF ROCKS OR VEGETATION OR WHATEVER, BRING IT. LET'S SEE WHAT YOU GOT AND LET'S SEE WHERE COURTS HAVE GONE ON THIS.
AND LET'S SEE WHAT WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T REQUIRE.
BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE YOU'RE YOU'RE KELVINS. RIGHT.
YOU'RE YOU'RE DICTATING SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY.
RIGHT. YOU GOTTA HAVE A GOOD REASON TO DO THAT.
AND THAT'S JUST THAT'S JUST CONSTITUTIONAL. WHAT I'M READING IS IT'S A WATER EFFICIENCY STANDARD.
BUT REALLY ALL WE'VE DEBATED ABOUT IS GOOD LOOKING.
YEAH, THIS IS THE WRONG SECTION. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THIS IS WHAT IT SHOULD BE IN 13, 13, TEN. LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE IS WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING.
AND I HAVE A GREAT DEAL. SO FROM THE BODY. I'M NOT SEEING THAT.
IT IS ACTUALLY A MOTION THAT PRETTY MUCH KILLS IT.
WELL, TABLE, IT MEANS HE WANTS TO BRING IT BACK. NO. DO YOU WANT TO? THAT WAS MY INTENT.
ROBERT. ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. I UNDERSTAND, BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET RID OF IT.
HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT ANOTHER TIME. MY INTENT IS LET'S GET TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA.
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THAT. I, I WOULD SAY YOU WANT TO BRING IT BACK.
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT. BUT WITHOUT IMPINGING ON THE RIGHT TO OWN LAND AND DICTATING WHAT THEY DO.
THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I SEE. SO DO WE HAVE ENOUGH? WE'RE HAPPY TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND ACTUALLY DRAFT AND SUGGEST SOME CODE CHANGES.
ENGINES. BRING IT BACK TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE.
YEAH. ONE. TWO. THREE. FOUR. OKAY. AND IT WAS PAMELA, KELVIN AND KAYLENE AT LEAST HAD THEIR HANDS. I THINK ZAC DID AS WELL. I DID NOT EXACTLY.
I FEEL LIKE WE DIDN'T GET ANYWHERE WITH THIS DISCUSSION. I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S GOING TO CHANGE.
COUNCIL MEMBERS WHITELOCK AND GREEN. ARE YOU LEADING THIS OR SOMEONE ELSE LEADING THIS? OKAY, WE CAN START. OKAY. WELL, DO YOU WANT TO GIVE US THE BACKGROUND ON IT FIRST OR DO YOU WANT TO? I THINK WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR. YEAH. OKAY. THE TOMATO PATCH.
THIS IS A PROPERTY JUST EAST OF MACY'S ON 7800 SOUTH.
SO AND WE HAD A MR. NASH CAME AND PRESENTED TO OUR COUNCIL AND COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN, AND I FELT LIKE WE WANTED TO TRY KIND OF A TEST RUN AND FELT THIS WAS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO GET COMMUNITY INPUT EARLIER BECAUSE WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT COMES LATE. SO WE WANTED TO DO IT EARLIER.
SO WE DID A TOWN HALL AND COUNCIL MEMBERS SHELTON, VIDOR AND LAMB CAME
[01:35:10]
AND WE HEARD FROM ABOUT 20 RESIDENTS THAT THAT EITHER LIVE ADJACENT OR THERE WAS ALSO A MOTHER THAT NIGHT OR BEFORE.I SPELL DIAMONDS THERE. HOW MANY IS IT? SIX. OKAY.
SIX THAT LIVE IN THE AREA. AND THEY'RE. AND SOME WERE THE ONES THAT CURRENTLY LEASE THE LAND.
AND WHAT I HEARD IS THOSE THAT LIVE WITH THEIR BACKYARDS THAT THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY THERE.
SO SOMETIMES THEIR BACKYARDS FLOOD. ALSO THOSE THAT THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED RIGHT THERE THAT WERE PRESENT AND SOME THAT I TALKED TO WHEN I WAS PASSING OUT FLIERS, THEY WOULD PREFER TO SEE HOMES BEHIND THEIR YARD AND THEN MAYBE COMMERCIAL.
OVERALL, THEY HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE PROPOSED DENSITY.
WHETHER IT WAS WALKING THE STREETS AND TALKING TO PEOPLE OR THOSE THAT CAME, THEY WERE LIKE, NO, THAT'S WAY TOO MUCH. THEY WERE INTRIGUED BY THE LIVE WORK IDEA.
AND THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO TOWNHOMES, JUST THE QUANTITY AND THOSE THAT THAT HAVE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES KIND OF WOULD LIKE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN THEIR BACKYARDS AND LIKE THAT.
AND THEY'D LIKE THAT BETTER THAN COMMERCIAL OPEN SPACE.
OH YEAH. THAT WAS ANOTHER CONCERN WHEN THEY WHEN THEY LOOKED AT IT, BECAUSE WE DID SHARE A SCREEN OF OF THE PROPOSAL AND THEY AND THEY WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT OPEN SPACE EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T LIVE THERE.
YEAH. BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE THERE WASN'T ANYWHERE FOR THE PEOPLE TO RECREATE.
I THINK IT'S FUNNY THAT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OPEN SPACE AND THE PLACE THAT THEY DON'T GO TO. IT'S INTERESTING. HOW MANY TIMES DO I WALK OVER TO SOME OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD AND GO PLAY IN THEIR PARK? YEAH. SO WHY WOULD YOU BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR OPEN SPACE? BUT IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE QUALITY, I GO TO OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS AND PLAY IN PARKS.
IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL QUALITY OF LIFE IN A IN A IN A NEIGHBORING NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY, WELL, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR ANY KIDS TO PLAY.
THERE'S NO PLACE TO PUT A BARBECUE. THERE'S NO.
AND SO IF YOU'RE IF YOU LIVE THERE, THAT'S NOT YOUR CONCERN. WELL, BUT IT IS A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE IN THE, IN THE CITY. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE, BUT I THINK I THINK THE BASEBALL IN THE YARD ARGUMENT STILL APPLIES.
AND SO IT'S NOT I. I WANT US TO THINK LONG TERM.
WHAT DO YOU WANT THE CITY TO BE LIKE? AND IF YOU HAVE TOO MANY PLACES THAT DON'T PROVIDE ANYWHERE FOR RECREATION, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO BE PUTTING MORE MONEY AWAY FROM PARKS.
AND THAT'S JUST A REALITY BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TO PROVIDE SOME RECREATION AREAS.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE HEARD. AND I AND I THINK THE PURPOSE OF THIS TONIGHT IS THAT I KNOW THE DEVELOPER, AND I KNOW THAT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ARE INTERESTED IN KNOWING WHAT WHAT WE WANT TO DO.
AND SO I THINK THE QUESTIONS ARE, DO WE WANT TO JUST KEEP A COMMERCIAL IF THAT'S WHAT THE BODY WANTS? AND THERE'S PROBABLY NO POINT IN GOING FARTHER WITH WITH IT.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A CODE FOR WHAT'S PROPOSED, SO WE'D HAVE TO REDO.
PLUS CODE WOULD NEED TO BE CHANGED TO EVEN FIT SOMETHING WITH THE CHANGING OF CODE.
OPEN IT UP TO THE WHOLE CITY. THAT'S MY QUESTION.
YES. YEAH. VERY WELL. THAT'S MY BIGGEST WORRY.
DEPENDS. IT DEPENDS ON HOW IT WAS WRITTEN. PC HILLSIDE ZONE.
AND ONLY APPLY IT TO THIS PROPERTY. LIKE LIKE.
HERE'S AN EXAMPLE. SO OVER MY HOUSE OFF REDWOOD, I HAVE YOUR HOMES BUILT, 24 HOMES.
THEY'RE NOT BIG HOMES. THEY'RE NOT TOWNHOMES, BUT THEY'RE REGULAR SIZED HOMES.
NOTHING WAS NEEDED TO CHANGE IN CODE OR DO THAT.
YEAH, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CODE THAT SHE'S REFERRING TO.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE THAT CODE TO PUT THE 24 HOMES IN THERE.
RIGHT. BECAUSE THE OVERLAY ZONE THAT THEY GOT WAS THAT THIS CODE COUNCIL SPECIFICALLY IS THE BALANCED HOUSING ZONE OR THE TYPE OF WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED. SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO CREATE A PATHWAY IN THE BALANCED HOUSING ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THIS AND THE DENSITY AND SWING,
[01:40:05]
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THERE'S A CONFLICT IN THE TWO ZONING AND THE BALANCE HOUSING ORDINANCE.CORRECT. THIS IS THIS IS CG. I THOUGHT THIS WAS CG.
IS IT C2? C2. SO THERE'S A CONFLICT THERE. YEAH.
WELL C2 DOESN'T ALLOW FOR RESIDENTIAL DENSITY.
AND AND AND THE BALANCED HOUSING ORDINANCE PROHIBITS MULTIFAMILY.
SO WE'VE GOT TWO ISSUES. YEAH. AND BUT DOES THIS AND DOES THIS ALIGN WITH OR DEVIATE FROM OUR VISION IN THE LONG TERM OUTLOOK OF THIS AREA? THAT'S I THINK A BIG QUESTION AND AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE THAT MR. DOBBINS FEELS LIKE THIS IS A VIABLE COMMERCIAL SPOT AND THAT, YES, IT WOULD, WOULDN'T IT? AND I'M SORRY, BUT EVEN WITH THAT, WELL, JUST, I JUST I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THAT'S WHAT HE FEELS.
DOES WILL THIS SET A PRECEDENCE FOR OTHER DEVELOPMENTS? YES, YES. SO THAT'S SOMETHING. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND.
YES IT IS IF, IF WE WERE TO PROCEED DOWN THIS ROAD.
THE ONLY WAY I WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT IT, BECAUSE AND I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IT'S BASED ON AND I AND SO THIS IS WHAT I TELL YOU IS I'D LOVE TO WAIT TO SEE UNTIL THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS OVER.
THE DUNNIGAN'S GOT HOUSE BILL 37. AND IT IT DEALS WITH WHAT'S CALLED A HOUSING ELIGIBLE ZONE THAT TOOK EFFECT LAST MAY.
IT ALLOWS US TO. AND BY THE WAY, AFFORDABLE DENSITY HOUSING DEFINITION IN HB 37 INCLUDES LIVE WORK SPACES, DUPLEXES, TRIPLEXES. IT'S AN INTERESTING MIX.
THAT ALLOWS IT TO DO IT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO OWNER OCCUPIED WITH A DEED RESTRICTION ON THE PROPERTY.
WE WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE HOUSING ELIGIBLE OVERLAY, WHICH WE'D HAVE TO CREATE A BOARD THAT OVERSEES IT IN A MASSIVE AREA, AND THEN YOU SET UP THESE HOUSING ELIGIBLE OVERLAY ZONES OVER CERTAIN PIECES OF PROPERTY.
SO YOU COULD, IN ESSENCE, USING A TERM THAT WE ALL LOVE.
IN ESSENCE, YOU CAN SPOT SOME THINGS TO ALLOW FOR THE HOUSING ELIGIBLE ZONE IF YOU WANTED TO.
AGREED. AND BEFORE WE GET INTO THE WEEDS, DON'T WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO IMPACT THE EXISTING UTILITIES? ARE THERE FEASIBLE SOLUTIONS TO THESE IMPACTS, AND WHAT STEPS HAS THE DEVELOPER TAKEN TO SECURE THAT CROSS ACCESS EASEMENT AND APPROVAL? SO UNLESS WE KNOW THOSE ANSWERS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T THINK WE CAN EVEN MOVE FORWARD WITH DISCUSSING THE CHANGES TO THIS.
SO, MR. DAVENPORT, I HAD HIM CHECK WHILE WE WERE SITTING THERE.
THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL IRU COUNT BECAUSE ITS COMMERCIAL WAS 2.2 PER ACRE.
SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS ABOUT TEN YEARS.
AND 7800 SOUTH IN THAT AREA ISN'T WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET WATER THERE, BUT SEWER IS GOING TO BE A MASSIVE PROBLEM. THAT INCREASE BY I MEAN WITH THE PROPOSAL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INCREASE OF 50 YEARS.
OH, THAT'S A MASSIVE COST FOR THIS. BUT I'M WILLING TO.
I DON'T HAVE ANY PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS THAT THIS IS A SHOPPING CENTER.
THIS IS A APARTMENT COMPLEX. THIS IS A WHATEVER.
BRING ME BRING ME YOUR BEST IDEAS AND SHOW ME HOW YOU CAN MAKE IT WORK.
I DISAGREE. IT'S IN THE LONG TERM PLAN OF THE CITY TO HAVE THIS COMMERCIAL SHOULD STAY COMMERCIAL.
IF THINGS CHANGE LIKE THIS IS A THIS. THIS ADDS TO THAT.
[01:45:05]
WE WANT THIS WALKABLE CITY. THIS IS A GOOD STEP TOWARDS THAT.I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE 800 IS A LOT FOR OUR CITY.
YOU CAN'T TRUST YOURSELF. I'M I'M SAYING. I'M JUST SAYING I'M A FAN OF THIS.
I THINK THE EARTH IS BIG ENOUGH REASON NOT TO EVEN.
YEAH, I THINK MY CONCERN RIGHT NOW IS HE ALREADY IS.
BUT AGAIN, SHOW ME A PROPOSAL THAT MAKES IT WORK.
MR. DAVENPORT, IF THE UTILITIES ARE SCALED FOR TEN UNITS AND YOU BRING ME A PROPOSAL OF 30 UNITS, SHOW ME WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO. SHOW ME HOW YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT.
IS YOU'RE WILLING TO PROPOSE A SMALLER USE, LESS INTENSE USE THAN RESIDENTIAL.
IS IT A DIFFERENT WATER TANK THAN CITY CENTER WOULD BE? IT'S IN ZONE ONE. IT IS IN ZONE ONE. SO IT'LL BE THE SAME ONE.
IT WILL BE A COMPUTER. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND TOO, BECAUSE IF WE WANT TO DO A VERY INTENSE OVER THERE, WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WHAT WE DO IN OTHER AREAS AND THAT.
RIGHT. TO COME TO THE COUNCIL TO SAY THIS IS THE IMPACT, AND I DON'T HAVE THAT FOR YOU TODAY.
TO TELL YOU WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, IS THIS.
SO BUT I THINK I THINK THAT BUT THEN IT LEAVES US WHERE, WHERE WE'RE LOOKING TO GO.
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT TOO FAR OFF FROM FROM COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB.
I SAW A PLAN. YOU KNOW, I MIGHT LOOK AT IT, BUT I MIGHT THE WAY I'D ONLY LOOK AT IT, PROBABLY UNDER HB 37. BUT GREAT OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS. BUT I'M HEARING WHO WANTS TO JUST KEEP IT COMMERCIAL.
I HEARD ONE, TWO, THREE, FIVE. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S SCOTT.
I COULD I COULD CHANGE FROM COMMERCIAL WITH A VALID PLAN, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TEN YEARS.
WELL, I'M WILLING TO LET THE ENGINEERS TELL THEM WHAT.
YEAH, WHAT THAT WOULD REQUIRE. AND THEN YOU CAN DECIDE IF THAT'S A GOOD IDEA OR NOT.
WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL? NUMBER OF UNITS? 60. 64. 66. MORE THAN NINE. OKAY. OKAY. THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOME UPSIZING OF SOMETHING.
YEAH. ALL RIGHT, WELL, WE'LL MOVE FROM THERE.
AND WHAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT FOUR DIAMONDS IN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOW BIG OF A DIAMONDS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? MR. ANDERSON, DO WE HAVE ANY ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS? BASEBALL DIAMONDS? I DON'T HAVE ANY ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS. I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES THAT HAVE TWO, FOUR, SIX HAVE DRAWN SOME MORE.
OKAY. THAT'S ME. UNLESS YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, I WILL ADJOURN THIS.
FOR AN HOUR. GO GET DINNER. YEAH.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.