Feb 11, 2025 Committee of the Whole

CALL TO ORDER

DISCUSSION TOPICS

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WORRY ABOUT BEES GETTING KILLED. RECORDING IN PROGRESS. I WAS UNSURE IF THE VOLUME WAS LOUD.

[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:07]

WE CAN BRING DAN. WE CAN BRING. ALRIGHTY. HERE WE GO. I WOULD LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING FOR THE WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 11TH, 2025.

CURRENTLY, ALL CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE IN PRESENT IN OUR MEETING EXCEPT FOR COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM. DO WE KNOW? IS SHE ONLINE YET? NOT YET. OKAY. BUT SHE SHOULD BE JOINING US SHORTLY. IS IT? THE MIC WILL PICK UP. SOUNDS. HE DIDN'T MEAN HIS VOICE. YEAH. ALRIGHT. AND WE'D LIKE TO WELCOME ONE OF OUR WEST JORDAN RESIDENTS THAT'S HERE, JOINING US TODAY. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. SO, MR. PRESIDENT. SO. CITY RESIDENTS AND ROB. ALRIGHT. OUR FIRST

[DISCUSSION TOPICS]

DISCUSSION TOPIC IS ONE THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN AND SHELDON'S HEART. IT IS A POTENTIAL AMENDMENTS TO WEST JORDAN CITY CODE SECTION 1455 STUB STREET TO ADJACENT SUBDIVISIONS. WHO WOULD LIKE TO START WITH COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN OR COUNCIL MEMBER SHELDON.

SHELDON. SHELDON. OKAY. GO AHEAD. I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD REVEAL ALL THIS, BUT BACK IN ON NOVEMBER 20TH OF 2024, THE COUNCIL ADOPTED AN ORDINANCE CLOSING OFF A STUB STREET. IN THE GEM APARTMENTS. BETWEEN GEM APARTMENTS AND ECHO RIDGE NEIGHBORHOOD OUT IN MY DISTRICT.

IT WAS A70 VOTE THAT WAS THEN VETOED BY THE MAYOR, AND THE COUNCIL OVERRODE THAT VETO IN JANUARY 14TH, FIVE 1 OR 6 161. OKAY. YEAH. SO SOME THINGS TO CONSIDER WITH THIS ORDINANCE CHANGE. RECENT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE GEM APARTMENTS AND ECHO RICH NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE BROUGHT TO SURFACE POTENTIAL CONFLICTS IN CITY CODE BETWEEN OLDER SUBDIVISIONS WITH STUB STREETS AND NEW SUBDIVISIONS THAT MAY HAVE A HIGHER OR MORE INTENSE USE, OR JUST HIGHER DENSITY. IT SEEMED REALLY CLEAR TO ME AT THE TIME THAT THE RESIDENTS IN THE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING NEIGHBORHOOD DIDN'T WANT A STREET CONNECTING THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD WITH WITH THE APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT WAS NEXT BEING BUILT NEXT TO THEM. BUT THEY DID. IT WOULD BE OKAY IF IT WAS A REGULAR SUBDIVISION, CORRECT? I THINK SO. YES. YES. AND WHEN THIS CODE WAS WRITTEN, IT WAS REALLY ALL ABOUT CONNECTING NEIGHBORHOODS TO EACH OTHER, WHICH IS A GOOD THING. WE WANT CONNECTIVITY. BUT WITH THE INTENSITY OR THE TYPE OF USE IS SO VASTLY DIFFERENT. I DON'T THINK THE CODE BACK IN 2001 WHEN THIS WAS WHEN THIS WAS LAST. HI, THIS IS RYAN GEORGE FROM THE THING. YOU JUST WATCHED SLIDESHOW. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT STARTED. I'M VERY SORRY, GEORGE.

REAL QUICK. I JUST WANT TO MENTION COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM JOINED US 402 JUST ON RECORD.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HI, PAMELA. ANYWAY. OKAY. SO, BACK IN 2001, WHEN SUBDIVISIONS WERE BEING BUILT, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALLY CONSIDERED THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A BUNCH OF APARTMENT BUILDINGS GOING UP RIGHT NEXT TO SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS. AND SO IT WAS THE WHOLE CONCEPT WAS JUST CONNECTING SUBDIVISIONS WITH OTHER SUBDIVISIONS. AND SO THE COUNCIL, WE ALL FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, BACK AT THE END OF LAST YEAR, WE FELT LIKE IT WAS BETTER TO CREATE A LEVEL OF SEPARATION BETWEEN THESE TWO. BETWEEN THESE TWO DEVELOPMENTS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REALLY LIKE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND ANYWAY, THE VETO WAS A SURPRISE TO ME, BUT, YOU KNOW, MADE SENSE ONCE, ONCE IT WAS EXPLAINED. I WOULD ALSO MENTION THE ONE THAT WE JUST SAID AS WELL, JUST ON RECORD, IS THERE WERE SOME PARKING ISSUES AS WELL THAT WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT. YEAH, I KNOW. I KNOW THERE WAS SOME WORRY ABOUT TRAFFIC, WHICH I THINK WAS A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE TRAFFIC WAS GOING TO GO IN AND OUT OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THE PARKING WAS MORE OF THE ISSUE THAT CAME UP. THERE'S ANOTHER ANOTHER APARTMENT COMPLEX REALLY CLOSE TO THERE. AND THE STREET IS JUST LINED. YES. OVER BY CISCO. YEAH, IT'S JUST LINED WITH RESIDENTS WHO PARK OUT ON THE STREET BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY MONEY FOR

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AN EXTRA PARKING SPOT INSIDE THE HOME. THAT'S TRUE. SO I FEEL LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO TRY AND ADDRESS AT SOME POINT. YEAH. SOMETIMES YOU WONDER HOW IT'S POSSIBLE, BECAUSE I KEEP GETTING TOLD THAT HE WANTS TO LIVE IN APARTMENTS. WELL, YEAH. PEOPLE DO. I MEAN. I SENSED YOUR LEVEL OF SARCASM, BUT I'LL BRING THAT UP IN ANOTHER. DID HE COME THROUGH? CLEARLY? I JUST JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW. I DID SENSE THAT IT WASN'T LOST ON ME. SO YOU'RE GOOD. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR AN EXTRA PARKING SPOT. IT'S A CONCERN THAT I HAVE. IT'S NOT. THAT'S OFF TOPIC. SO WE CAN COME BACK TO THAT LATER. SO LAND USE HAS CHANGED DRASTICALLY IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE WAS TO CONNECT SIMILAR DEVELOPMENTS WITH, WITH WITH EACH OTHER. AND GIVEN THE CHANGES IN LAND USE, IT SEEMS APPROPRIATE TO REVIEW THIS CODE GIVEN THAT INTENSITIES DO VARY GREATLY COMPARED TO HOW THEY DID. 20 PLUS YEARS AGO.

COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN AND I MET WITH STAFF AND DISCUSSED THE CODE IN DEPTH. LAST WEEK SOMETIME. A WEEK AGO TODAY, AND THEY THE STAFF AGREES THAT THE PROPOSED CODE IS IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPLEMENT AND SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM. AND THEN, JUST AS THE FIRST DISCUSSION POINT, I'D LIKE TO ASK SCOTT A QUESTION. SURE. IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS SOME MENTION OF HEY, IF. IF WE DO THIS, THERE COULD BE SOME LEGAL. AND I FORGOT TO ASK YOU ABOUT IT IN OUR LAST MEETING LAST WEEK, BUT THERE COULD BE SOME LEGAL PROBLEMS. MAYBE I SHOULD. WELL, YEAH, I'D BE HAPPY TO. DUNCAN.

TO ME. I DON'T THINK THIS THIS PROPOSED CODE IS PRECLUDING THE USE OF EXISTING STUB STREETS.

THERE, THERE. AND WHERE WE CAN CONNECT IN WITH THEM AS IF DEEMED APPROPRIATE. WE DID, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TEN, 15, 20 YEARS AGO, REQUIRE PROPERTY FROM, FROM DEVELOPERS TO, TO CREATE THOSE STUB STREETS TO GET THAT PROPERTY UP FOR FREE. CORRECT. THEY WERE THEY WERE REQUIRED TO DEDICATE IT BACK IN THE DAY. RIGHT. RIGHT. ONE OF THE MAIN CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS WHEN IT COMES TO STUFF STREETS AND IT'S COME UP WITH LOTS OF THESE OFFICE. RECENTLY IS THAT WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL AS CITIES TO REQUIRE STUB STREETS FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. BUT IF WE CAN REQUIRE THE STREET. AND THAT'S THE WAY THE LANGUAGE RECENTLY CHANGED. SO I THINK THE PROPOSED CHANGES ARE SO WE'RE SAFE WITH SCRUBBING. THE ONE REFERENCE TO FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. AND WE'RE PUTTING INSTEAD THAT WE WANT IT FOR CONNECTIVITY OF PUBLIC UTILITIES LIKE WATER LINES AND FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. SO OBVIOUSLY RESPONSE TIMES REQUIRE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT. SO THOSE TYPES OF THINGS I THINK THROUGH THIS TEXT OF PROPOSED TEXT CHANGE, WE WOULD RENDER OURSELVES EVEN, YOU KNOW, MUCH MORE. SUBSERVIENT. THAT WAS JUST MY ONE CONCERN THAT I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT. I CAN TURN IT OVER TO LET ME. THERE ARE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS, IF YOU'LL NOTICE, BECAUSE AS KENT MENTIONED THE LAST TIME, THIS WAS UPDATED WAS AT LEAST 2001. AND SO WE DECIDED IF WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH SECTION 1455, THAT WE MIGHT AS WELL CLEAN UP SECTION 1455. AND SO YOU WILL NOTICE THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT STUB STREETS. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THERE'S A LOT OF CLEANUP. SOME WITH THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND SOME JUST WORDING CHANGES. YOU'LL NOTICE THERE ARE A LOT OF CROSS-OUTS. WE TRIED TO CROSS OUT AS MUCH AS WE MET WITH STAFF. WE MET WITH SCOTT AND LARRY AND TODD JOHNSON FROM PUBLIC WORKS AND THE TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. AND LIKE YOU CAN SEE IN THE ONE SECTION UNDER CUL DE SAC, WE TOOK OUT ONE, TWO, THREE FOUR, FIVE, SIX, ALMOST SEVEN LINES AND SAID WE FOLLOW THE CITY ENGINEERING STANDARDS. SO IT'S EASIER TO IT'S EASIER TO READ. YOU WILL

[00:10:06]

ALSO NOTICE THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THESE THAT WE HAD DISCUSSIONS. WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. THERE'S A COUPLE OF VERY TECHNICAL THINGS IN HERE WITH PRIVATE PROTECTIVE PROTECTION STRIPS AND CITY PROTECTION STRIPS. WE'VE GOT IT. WE'VE GOT THAT CLEANED UP. SO IT'S A LITTLE MORE SIMPLER TO READ. AND THEN YOU'LL NOTICE THE ONE SECTION THAT WE DO WANT TO ADD. THAT'S NOT THAT. THAT'S ALSO WOULD BE NEW IS LINES 98 THROUGH 101. IT'S EL CONNECTING TRAILS AND PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS THAT SAY YOU HAVE TO CONNECT. IF ANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR THIS THIS WAS ONE THAT GOT IN MY CRAW. IF ANY OF YOU REMEMBER, WE BUILT BRINKERHOFF BLUFF. WE, THE CITY APPROVED BRINKERHOFF BLUFFS OVER ON 13TH WEST, ACROSS THE STREET FROM WHERE I CROSS, 13TH WEST FROM WHERE I LIVE, AND NOT TOO FAR FROM WHERE COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB LIVES AND BRINKERHOFF BLUFFS. IT WAS THE COMBINATION. IF ANY OF YOU RECALL OR DON'T KNOW, IT WAS A COMBINATION OF A SENIOR HOUSING OVERLAY AND A PRD, AND IT BECAME ACTUALLY ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SENIOR HOUSING OVERLAYS IN THE CITY BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL RENTED OUT.

THEY'RE ALL, EVERY AND ALL THE HOUSES ARE FULL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WELL, ONE OF THE ONE OF THE CONDITIONS AND PART OF THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS TO PUT A TRAIL IN BECAUSE THE PRD REQUIRED A TRAIL. WELL, THE TRAIL STARTS EXACTLY LIKE GARY CANON WAS SUPPOSED TO AND PUT IT IN ON 13TH WEST AND IT RUNS TO GARDNER VILLAGE. KIND OF IT RUNS TO THE BRICK WALL THAT STOPS AT THE COLOSIMO PROJECT, BECAUSE WHAT WE DIDN'T HAVE WAS THE FORCE OF ORDINANCE TO SAY, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, WE WANT TO HAVE TRAILS. WALKING THROUGH THE CITY AND CONNECTING. AND SO WHAT WE'VE GOT IS WE'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY A TRAIL STOPPING AT A BOUNDARY WALL THAT IT SHOULDN'T HAVE. AND SO HOPEFULLY BY PUTTING THE LAST PARAGRAPH IN, IT WILL HELP US PREVENT THOSE SO THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING, LIKE WE WANTED TO DO WITH ECHO RIDGE IS IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONNECT THEM BY A STREET, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS CONNECT THEM EITHER BY THE OPEN SPACE TRAIL, THE WALKWAY, WHATEVER, AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE STILL CONNECTED. IT'S JUST NOT NECESSARILY A ROAD. AND THEN THE ONLY THE ONLY COMMENT THAT I HAD ON THE DRAFT, IF AND THEN I'LL THEN I'LL SHUT UP, IS THAT WE REFER TO IN THE DRAFT WE REFER AND IT'S THE CORRECT TERM. IT'S PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT STANDARDS, SPECIFICATIONS AND PLANS. SINCE IT'S A PROPER NAME, WE SHOULD CAPITALIZE THAT BECAUSE IT IS A THAT IS A THAT IS A DOCUMENT THAT WE'VE ADOPTED. AND SO WE, WE PROBABLY WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO CAPITALIZE THAT THE, THE 3 OR 4 TIMES THAT IT'S MENTIONED, BECAUSE THAT IS A VERY IT'S NOT JUST A GENERIC TERM. IT IS THE OFFICIAL NAME, THE OFFICIAL NAME FOR THE CITY ENGINEERING STANDARDS. AND THEN I'M DONE. SO THERE'S SOMETHING IN HERE THAT'S CONCEPTUALLY SOMETHING THAT I'D LIKE TO CHANGE. I MENTIONED THIS IN OUR RETREAT. ONE DAY, ONE OF THE ONE DAY I WAS THERE OF THE TWO DAYS OF THE DAY CONSISTED BECAUSE I GOT SICK. AND THAT IS HERE IN, IN 14, FIVE, FIVE, EIGHT ONE IT SAYS IF ADJACENT LAND IS UNDEVELOPED, STUB STREETS ARE REQUIRED. LOOKS LIKE WE FLIRTED WITH THE WORD MAY, WHICH I LIKE BETTER AT REASONABLE LOCATIONS TO PROVIDE CONVENIENT ACCESS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AND YADA YADA. I WANT TO NOT REQUIRE THEM, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY. AND IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT I DON'T WANT TO REQUIRE THEM. I WANT TO REQUIRE THE CONCEPT OF CONNECTIVITY. BUT WHEN YOU BUILD A SUB STREET IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT TO A FIELD THAT EVERYBODY ALWAYS THINKS IS NEVER GOING TO BE DEVELOPED, RIGHT. IS THERE A REALTOR? BECAUSE THE REALTOR TOLD ME THAT WAS GOING TO BE A SCHOOL, OR A CHURCH OR A PARK OR A DISNEYLAND OR SOMETHING? I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO BE ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD WITH MORE HOMES OR AN APARTMENT COMPLEX OR WHATEVER. WHEN YOU BUILD THAT STUB STREET, WHETHER IT'S ON THE SIDE OF A HOUSE, RIGHT, OR KIND OF IN FRONT OF A HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE, THE STREET IS TO CONTINUE, YOU KNOW,

[00:15:05]

AS OPPOSED TO COMING OFF OF ANOTHER STREET AND STUBBING. IT KIND OF BECOMES LIKE YOUR OWN PERSONAL PLAYGROUND, YOUR OWN PERSONAL PARKING LOT, YOUR OWN PERSONAL LITTLE KIND OF CITY OWNED, PAVED AND MAINTAINED SPOT. BUT THAT'S MINE NOW BECAUSE IT'S NEXT TO MY HOUSE.

SO I PUT MY BASKETBALL HOOP OUT THERE AND I'M GOING TO PLAY BASKETBALL THERE. AND WHEN YOU COME ALONG TO DEVELOP THE NEXT NEIGHBORHOOD, NOW YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THE ROAD THROUGH. I'M GOING TO BE MAD, RIGHT? NOW, I'M NOT SAYING ME. I'M SAYING THE PEOPLE THAT TALK TO ME BECAUSE THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. OR IT'S WHERE I PARK MY SAILBOAT, OR IT'S WHERE I PARKED MY TEENAGER'S CAR, OR IT'S WHERE I PARK BOTH OF MY TEENAGERS CARS. YOU KNOW, AND IT BECOMES THIS KIND OF THING. WHEREAS IF YOU WOULD LEAVE THIS SPACE FOR THE SUB STREET, REQUIRE A DEVELOPER TO PUT DOWN OR TO PUT IN ESCROW, OR TO GIVE THE CITY SOME MONEY SO THAT WE CAN DEVOTE THE SUB SUB STREET WHEN THAT NEXT DEVELOPMENT COMES ALONG, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER DEVELOPER WILL MOBILIZE AND PUT THEIR END OF THE STREET RIGHT UP TO THAT SPOT. THEN THE CITY CAN KICK IN, YOU KNOW, PAYMENT AND SAY, HEY, JUST PUSH IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH. HERE'S YOUR EXTRA $100,000 OR WHATEVER IT COMES. YOU, YOU, YOU SIGNAL THAT YOU'RE NOT BUILDING SOMETHING. THAT'S THAT'S A TEMPORARY PARKING LOT. YOU'RE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YOU'RE LEAVING? YOU WOULD LEAVE IT AS BLANK, UNDEVELOPED PROPERTY. I'D RATHER LEAVE IT UNDEVELOPED AS PART OF THE FIELD THAT IT'S NEXT TO. RIGHT. PART OF THE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CALL IT A FIELD EMPTY LOT, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. IT'S BECOMING LESS AND LESS OF AN ISSUE AS THE CITY GETS BIGGER AND BIGGER. BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO. IT'S STILL GOING ON AND IT WILL GO ON WHEN WE HAVE REDEVELOPMENT AS WELL. RIGHT. OR INFILL DEVELOPMENT. SO I HAVE A COUPLE CONCERNS WITH THAT. ONE, IT'S JUST A WEED PATCH. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE UPSET ABOUT THAT. AND THE NEIGHBORS ARE STILL GOING TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH IT. SO I DON'T KNOW ABOUT BASKETBALL HOOP, BUT YEAH THE BASKETBALL. THAT'S ONE CONCERN I HAVE. BUT I LIKE THE CONCEPT. I JUST WONDER IF THERE'S NOT ANOTHER WAY TO. I HAD ANOTHER CONCERN AND IT'S LEADING. MY CONCERN WITH THAT WOULD BE IS THAT IF WE REQUIRE THE DEVELOPER TO PUT THE MONEY DOWN, WE WILL LOSE ON EVERY ONE OF THOSE STREETS BECAUSE AND WE COULD, DEPENDING ON THE TIME, WE'RE GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THE COST OF THAT WHEN IT REALLY IS AN APPROPRIATE EXACTION FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO WATER, SEWER AND THE FUTURE THAT THE FUTURE WATER AND SEWER LINE AND STUFF. THEN WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH MORE IN. THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY ARE THEN PAYING TO FINISH THAT STUB STREET THAT THEN. AND THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO BUDGET FOR THAT BECAUSE THE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S SITTING IN ESCROW AND IT SITS THERE FOR 20 YEARS. OKAY. IT'LL IT'LL GATHER A FEW DOLLARS WORTH OF INTEREST. BUT IF THE COSTS TRIPLE IN THAT 20 YEARS, THEN WE'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY TO BUILD THAT ROAD THAT I AM NOT SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE BUDGET ISSUES. SO THE OTHER CONCERN I HAD WAS, HEY, IF WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE A WEED PATCH, WE COULD PUT SOME GRASS IN. AND BUT THEN IT BECOMES A LITTLE PARK. IT BECOMES A DRAIN ON CITY RESOURCES FOR MAINTAINING IT.

AND THEN PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE PARK. CAN I ASK TO EVEN HAVE A LOT OF STUB STREETS UPCOMING? IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE WE HAVE A LOT OF STREETS EXISTING. CORRECT. BUT AS FAR AS FUTURE STUB STREETS, I DON'T SEE A LOT COMING IN. YEAH. AND IF THEY ARE, IT'S PART OF A MASTER PLAN COMMUNITY. AND WE CAN SEE THE FULL I DON'T I DON'T SEE STREETS LIKE IN MY LIKE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, LIKE, YOU KNOW, OVER BY THE ANIMAL SHELTER THAT WAS THERE. I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING A LOT ANYMORE WITH WASATCH ELECTRIC. AND OBVIOUSLY THEY IT'S GOING TO BE AN OVERALL LARGER, MAINLY COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. AND SO THEY'VE LEFT STUB STREETS FOR THE REST OF THE YEARS. BUT THAT'S A BIG PLAN. BIG PLAN. ONE ONE THING THAT WE'VE DONE RECENTLY, COUNCILMAN JACOB, TO HELP COMMUNICATE OR MANAGE EXPECTATIONS OF THOSE, THOSE THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. IS THIS THE SIGNS OF FUTURE ROAD CONNECTION? YEAH. YOU SCARED MY NEIGHBORS WHEN YOU PUT THAT UP. THEY THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING THROUGH. NOT NOT THAT YOU PUT IT UP, BUT IT WENT UP AND THEY CALLED ME. THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT? WHEN DID HE GET SOLD? IS IT GOING THROUGH? I'M LIKE, NO, THEY JUST PUT THOSE UP. WELL, THAT WAS AT MY INSISTENCE. PARTLY. PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IT'S THE EXPECTATIONS, RIGHT? IT'S WE'RE TRYING TO MANAGE THE

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EXPECTATIONS THAT SOMEDAY THIS WILL BE USED AS A STREET OR MAY BE USED AS A STREET. THE OTHER CONCERN THAT IT BRINGS UP THAT I FORGOT TO MENTION IS IT'S HAPPENING WHEN IT'S BEHIND A NEIGHBORHOOD. SO NORTH END OF 67TH WEST HAS A STUB STREET GOING WEST, RIGHT? IT BECOMES A PARKING LOT FOR SCHOOL BUSSES DURING THE DAY. RIGHT. SCHOOL BUSSES BETWEEN THERE, BETWEEN THE ROUTES WILL GO PARK AND THE PEOPLE WILL HANG OUT. BUT IT ALSO BECOMES KIND OF A LITTLE SPOT FOR NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY TO GO ON, RIGHT? YES. WHEN YOU'RE BEHIND A NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU'VE GOT A STUB STREET THAT DOESN'T CONNECT ANYWHERE, YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY TRAFFIC. YOU'RE NOT GETTING A SCENE. YOU'RE GOING TO BE. I'VE HAD THIS BROUGHT UP FROM RESIDENTS OVER IN THE HIGH POINT NEIGHBORHOOD WITH STOKESLEY, THE STOKESLEY RIGHT NOW. IT'S THE SAME. I KNOW, I KNOW, WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. YEAH. YEAH. THE END OF CRICKET. OR THE END OF 8200 SOUTH PASS CRICKET. THERE. THESE ARE ALL PLACES WHERE WHERE DRUG DEALS GO TO HAPPEN OR KIND OF BAD THINGS. AND SCHOOL BUSSES GO TO PARK. THAT'S NOT A BAD THING NECESSARILY. SO IT'S THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IF WE CAN MITIGATE THE EXPECTATIONS THING. MAYBE YOU'VE GOT KIND OF A SOLUTION STARTED ON THAT AND I THAT'S GREAT. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER THOSE TWO THAT YOU MENTIONED. I WISH BRIAN WERE HERE. THOSE TWO YOU MENTIONED. 82ND SOUTH AND 67TH WEST. WE HAVE BOTH OF THEM KIND OF HAVE A HAVE TO HAVE AN ACCESS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THEN THERE'S THIS LITTLE CORNER THAT IS THE STUB THAT LEAVES ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO PARK OR WONDERING IF WE CAN'T DO SOMETHING JUST WITH JERSEY BARRICADES OR SOMETHING THAT IN THE SUB STREETS THERE IT'S IN IT EXISTS. IT CAN BE CONNECTED SOMEDAY WITH THE JERSEY BARRICADE OR A FENCE OR SOMETHING. WE ELIMINATE THE ABILITY TO KIND OF HANG OUT IN THOSE DARK CORNERS OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT BRAINSTORM. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF, WHEN WE BUILD THE STUB STREET, WE BUILD THE STUB STREET, BUT ACROSS THE MIDDLE, LIKE YOU SAY, WE EITHER PUT A BARRICADE OR LIKE IF IT WAS STOKESLEY AND CRICKET, IF WE WOULD, IF WE WOULD JUST BUILD THE CURB ACROSS CRICKET WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM. RIGHT. CAN WE, CAN WE DO SOMETHING THAT WE JUST BUILD THE A JUST A CURB IN THERE, A TEMPORARY CURB OR SOMETHING THERE BECAUSE THE CURB WOULD BE PRETTIER THAN K-RAILS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. BUT IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING RIGHT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT ALONG THE EDGE OF THE STREET THAT SAYS STREET STOPS HERE, AND THEN THE SIGNS RIGHT THERE THAT SAYS, THIS IS A FUTURE STREET. MAYBE THAT HELPS THAT BECAUSE NOBODY CAN DRIVE PAST IT. KIDS COULD GO HANG OUT THERE STILL, BUT YOU COULDN'T DRIVE IN. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH.

THOSE ARE SOME INTERESTING IDEAS. YEAH. WHAT ABOUT MAINTENANCE? THAT WAS CURB WAS THERE. YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN IT. WE'RE NOT MAINTAINING THE STUB STREET THAT MUCH. NOTHING TO REALLY MAINTAIN. I MEAN, LET ME ASK BRIAN. LET'S ASK BRIAN ABOUT SOME OF THESE IDEAS AND SOME OF HIS ENGINEERS AND STAFF AND SEE WHAT THEY THINK. SO THOSE ARE THE CONCERNS THAT I HAVE THAT HAVE KIND OF BEEN BROUGHT UP. AND IF WE CAN WORK SOMETHING LIKE THAT INTO THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS ON A, ON A, ON A, ON A NEWLY CREATED STUB STREET, WE DO SOMETHING SO THAT IT CAN'T BE, YOU KNOW, WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT, DUNCAN. AND SO MAYBE WITH, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU GUYS AND BRIAN AND CORBIN AND BRIAN, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD JUST PUT THAT SAYS ON A NEWLY CONSTRUCTED OUT OF SECTION THAT SAYS IF THERE'S A NEWLY CONSTRUCTED STUB STREET, THIS IS WHAT WE DO. AND I'LL BE HONEST, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. BUT I DON'T LIKE I DON'T LIKE CLOSING OFF THIS STREET, TELLING NEIGHBORS THEY CAN'T USE IT JUST BECAUSE SOMEDAY THEY IT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM. IF WE MANAGE THEIR EXPECTATIONS WITH THE SIGN, I THINK THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH. I'M JUST THINKING OF THE ONES THAT ARE BACK BEHIND, BEHIND SUBDIVISIONS WITH BACK FACING WALLS. OH THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. WITH THE DRUG FUELED STUFF. YEAH. RIGHT. NOT THE ONES. NOT THE ONES. STOP IT. SO? SO WE STOP IT. SO WE STOP THE STUFF FROM GOING BEYOND A CERTAIN PLACE. AT LEAST YOU MAKE IT HARDER. YOU MAKE AND. WELL.

AND CARS CAN'T GO DRIVE BACK IN THERE AND STUFF. BUT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY GOES IF SOME IF SOMEBODY PUTS A BASKETBALL HOOP IN THERE, GREAT. YEAH. YOU KNOW, LET LET THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE THE BASKETBALL HOOP IN THERE AND MAKE IT SWEEP STREET. I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I DON'T CARE BECAUSE IT SOMEDAY THE HOOP WILL COME DOWN AND THEY'LL ALL BE MAD, BUT YOU KNOW, THE KIDS WILL GROW UP AND COME. YEAH, IT WILL STAY THERE. NO, IT WAS DEFINITELY YOUR SECOND CONCERN WAS I'VE SEEN THAT A LOT WAS DEFINITELY MORE VALID THAN THE FIRST BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH STILL THERE. THOSE PEOPLE DIDN'T OWN THAT ROAD ANYWAY, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE, YOU KNOW, IN MY DISTRICT, RIGHT NEAR PRETTY CLOSE TO THE FARM BEING SOLD. THE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAINED

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THE LOUDEST ONLY COMPLAINED BECAUSE THEY WERE LOSING THAT THAT INTERSECTION, YOU KNOW, THEIR THEIR LITTLE PARKING AREA THAT THEY HAVE. AND I WENT AND TALKED TO THEM AND, AND YEAH, THEY ADMITTED THEY KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN SOMEDAY. I WAS LIKE, WELL, TODAY IS SOMEDAY.

AND YOU HAD A GOOD RUN REAL QUICK. COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM, DID YOU RAISE YOUR HAND? YEAH. I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION ON SAFETY REGARDING THIS. IF IT'S CLOSED OFF OR WHATNOT, HOW HAS THE FIRE CHIEF. HAS HE WEIGHED IN ON THIS BY CHANCE? IS FOR SAFETY CONCERNS WITH IT NOT BEING ANOTHER OUTPOINT OR TURNAROUND? WELL, IT WASN'T TO BEGIN WITH. SPECIFIC. SPECIFIC TO GEM APARTMENTS. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT. OKAY. IT WAS JUST A SAFETY CONCERN WITH WITH THE WITH ANY FIRE TRUCKS AND WHATNOT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT BLOCKING ANYTHING OR CAUSING MORE ISSUES. IT'S A VALID POINT BECAUSE SOME OF SOME AREAS IN THE CITY DO HAVE THOSE TURNAROUNDS FOR FIRE TRUCK TURNAROUNDS AND THAT KIND OF THING, AND THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT I'M YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ELEMENTS ALREADY HAVE TO HAVE ALL THEIR INGRESS AND EGRESS. RIGHT. IT'S JUST FIRE CODE. YOU KNOW ANYTHING? OVER 30 LOTS, TWO POINTS OF ACCESS, TURNAROUNDS, ETCETERA. SO, YEAH, THIS WOULD BE ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT. JUST CLARIFYING. YEAH. WOULD THIS BE A GOOD TIME TO ALSO BRING UP WHAT WE SHOULD DO WITH THE WEST END OF 60, 80, 200 SOUTH WEST END OF. HE'S TALKING ABOUT STOKES CRICKET LANE. THIS IS NOT REALLY ON TOPIC. AND WE SHOULD STICK WITH BRIAN. BRIAN CLEGG PROBABLY SHOULD BE HERE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT. I HAVE TWO TWO QUESTIONS. AND I'M LOOKING AT THE RED LINE VERSION ON LINE 12. AND YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS, BUT IT SAYS A MINIMUM OF TWO POINTS OF INGRESS AND EGRESS. SO HOW DO WE DETERMINE LIKE IS IT AFTER 30 AND 100 OR AND WHEN IS THAT DETERMINED. AND DO WE NEED THAT IN CODE. IT'S ALREADY PART OF THE FIRE CODE. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. THIS IS ADDING. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THIS ADDS EACH RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT MUST HAVE A MINIMUM OF TWO POINTS OF INGRESS AND EGRESS PERIOD. AND WE DETERMINED THAT MORE THAN ONE ACCESS POINT IS NOT NECESSARY. YEAH. IT'S JUST SO IT'S NOT.

IT'S NOT HARD AND FAST IN CODE. IT CAN IT CAN GO IN OR OUT BASED ON WHAT THE. FIRE CHIEF'S DETERMINATION IS FALLING FIRE CODES. YEAH. YEAH. SO OBVIOUSLY A TEN LOT SUBDIVISION DOES REQUIRE TWO FIRE STATION. PERFECT. AND THEN LINE 17 IS REALLY AN 18. BUT. IT SAYS A.

AND DO WE WANT A OR OR IT SAYS 17. NO. IT SAYS IT'S REALLY LINE 18 AFTER THE BLUE. A IT SAYS STUB STREETS WHICH WILL CONNECT TO THE FUTURE. DO WE WANT IT TO SAY WILL OR MAY. IT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF, I THINK CHANGING THIS IS THAT WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE A. HARD STOP. YOU WANT SOME FLEXIBILITY? WHEN THE OLD ONE WAS MADE? IT'S IN THE RED LINE VERSION. I KNOW, BUT WILL IS IN BLACK, ACTUALLY. YEAH. SO BOTH MAY AND WILL ARE OLD TERMS. THEY COMPLY, WHICH WILL CONNECT. SO I KNOW BUT I THOUGHT I SEE WHERE I THINK I SEE CONNECT IS WHAT I FEEL WE WANTED IS THAT THEY MAY CONNECT IN THE FUTURE BUT THEY MAY NOT SOMETHING YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'RE GOING TO BUILD A CISCO RIGHT NEXT TO A SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT, THE WILL AND THE WILL AT THE END OF LINE 18 COULD BE MAY IS WHAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? RIGHT. I JUST THINK IT SHOULD BE BASED ON. I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE POINT OF THIS WAS TO MAKE IT SO IT'S NOT SO I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. THE MAY AND THE WILL CONFLICT. YEAH. WE DID WE DID MAKE THAT CHANGE THAT. YEAH I THINK THAT'S THE INTENDED MEANING. CURRENT CODE. DO I. BUT THIS DOESN'T TELL ME THAT I'VE MADE A NOTE OF THAT. YOU WANT TO CHANGE THAT? OKAY. WELL, I THINK. I THINK, YES. TO ADDRESS OUR LEGAL ISSUES LIKE THAT. I MEAN, AT THE BEGINNING, THE STREETS AND NEW OR NEW DEVELOPMENTS SHALL CONNECT TO EXISTING STREETS, UNLESS OTHERWISE APPROVED. YEAH. I DIDN'T LIKE THE WORD SHALL.

THERE, SHALL, SHALL. UNLESS. DUNCAN IN THE FIRST LINE SHALL CONNECT. YOU MUST DO THIS. MOST OF THE OTHER ONES HAVE. SO. OR JUST STREETS AND NEW DEVELOPMENTS. JUST DROP THE WORD

[00:30:02]

DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO ZONES. SO THEN IF YOU IF SOMEBODY PUTS AN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT IN NEXT TO A TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT THAT ALREADY EXISTS, OBVIOUSLY THAT REQUIREMENT NO LONGER APPLIES BECAUSE IT'S NO, YOU KNOW, NOT ANYTHING CLOSE TO A SIMILAR ZONE. RIGHT. SO I THINK BETWEEN THOSE TWO, THOSE TWO THINGS, THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND THE SIMILAR ZONE LANGUAGE, I THINK YOU'VE GOT A FAIR AMOUNT OF FLEXIBILITY TO ADDRESS ISSUES WHERE ONE IS FEASIBLE. MORE QUESTIONS. I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE AT LEAST FOR THE ONE THAT'S ON? WELL, DOES IT NEED TO COME? I WILL ASK THE QUESTION. DOES IT NEED TO COME BACK TO COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OR IS IT IN GOOD WITH THE MINOR MODIFICATIONS THAT DUNCAN'S GOING TO MAKE, THAT IT'S READY TO COME BACK TO THE MAIN BODY? WELL, IT IS A LAND USE ORDINANCE THAT YOU WOULD BE SENDING IT PROBABLY TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF YOU'RE READY. SO ARE WE READY TO SEND IT TO PLANNING? PLANNING COMMISSION WITH SMALL CHANGES, THE CHANGES WE'VE INDICATED. AND I SAW I SAW GREEN, SHELTON, WHITELOCK, LAMB. AND THE DOOR. WAS THERE ANY CLARITY ON COUNCIL MEMBER JACOBS REQUEST OF CHANGING THAT VERBIAGE, OF NOT REQUIRING THAT LINE IN 14 FIVE FIVE, EIGHT? NO, I THINK I THINK WE CAN HANDLE IT ADMINISTRATIVELY. OKAY. WITH. THE PRACTICE, THE BEST PRACTICE.

IN THE CODE. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. BY THE WAY, THEY DID THIS IN. IF YOU THINK ABOUT THIS, WE MET WITH THEM WITH THIS. I'M GOING TO THROW ALLEN UNDER THE BUS. HE MOVED THE RCA FORWARD FASTER THAN WE WERE READY FOR IT. SO THEY'VE DONE THIS IN A WEEK. THANK YOU. SO THANK YOU, MAYOR. I REALLY DON'T THINK IT'LL BE A HUGE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF NEW STUFF COMING IN. RIGHT. SO BUT IT'S GOOD TO HAVE IT FOR THE FEW THAT WILL BE COMING IN. YEAH. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY CURRENT STUFF AT ALL. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL MOVE TO DISCUSSION. TOPIC B DISCUSSION OF AMENDMENTS TO COUNCIL POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.

[00:35:05]

I THINK THIS WAS KIND OF COMING FROM ALLEN, BUT WITH HIS VOICE TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO WARREN AND TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT THAT HE WANTED TO DISCUSS ABOUT CHANGING ON OUR POLICIES. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S MORE TO DO WITH COMMITTEES. CORRECT. COMMITTEES ARE AMONG THEM. YEAH. THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT LOOSE ITEMS. SO WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET MR. ANDERSON TO NOT TALK MORE THAN HE NEEDS TO, BUT HE'LL CHIME IN IF HE IF HE DOES NEED TO. SO COUNCIL LAST APPROVED AMENDMENTS TO COUNCIL RULES IN DECEMBER. THAT WAS LARGELY A FORMATTING REVISION, IMPLEMENTING THE LEADERSHIP ROTATION AND THEN A STYLE GUIDE AND ITEM WORKFLOWS. SO A FEW THINGS THAT HAVE A FEW HAPPENINGS OR QUESTIONS THAT HAVE HAPPENED SINCE THEN. AND THREE LOOSE SUBTOPICS THAT WE'LL GO OVER. THE FIRST IS TOWN HALL MEETINGS. THERE WAS A TOWN HALL MEETING BY COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN AND COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK. AND WE REALIZED WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A PROCESS IN PLACE. SO WE WERE BACK AND FORTH WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE HAD ALL OUR DUCKS IN A ROW FOR THIS TOWN HALL MEETING, AND THEN OTHERWISE REALIZED WE NEEDED TO GET THIS IN WRITING. SO THIS IS A NEW RULE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO ADD, WHICH OUTLINES THE PROCESS OF ESTABLISHING OR HOSTING A OR HAVING A TOWN HALL MEETING. AND THE WAY THAT THE COUNCIL OFFICE GETS INVOLVED AS FAR AS COORDINATING LOGISTICS AND EVERYTHING. SO NOW WE HAVE SOMETHING IN WRITING. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS TO IT. BUT PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. PRETTY SIMPLE. TWO SUGGESTIONS. ON A TOWN HALL, MEETINGS ARE NOT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY COUNCIL AS A WHOLE. THEY MIGHT BE. I MEAN, DEPENDING ON WHAT COMES OUT OF IT, EVERYBODY MIGHT AGREE TO THAT. AND I'D SAY, WELL, WE CAN'T AGREE TO THAT BECAUSE IT SAYS WE ARE NOT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WAS SAID IN THE TOWN HALL MEETING. SO THAT'S NOT WHAT THE COUNCIL IS SUPPOSED TO. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? HOW WOULD YOU? SO WHY WOULD TOWN HALLS. WE'RE NOT HOLDING THEM FOR THE CITY COUNCIL? NO, I KNOW, BUT WHAT I MEAN, WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS THIS. THIS COULD BE INTERPRETED TO READ THAT ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF A TOWN HALL MEETING IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COUNCIL, WHEN IN FACT, IT MIGHT BE RIGHT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE MIGHT ALL AGREE TO WHAT CAME OUT OF THAT MEETING, AND THEN WE CAN SAY, NO, NO, NO. WHAT CAME OUT OF THE MEETING IS NOT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT JUST CAN'T. ANYWAY, I DON'T THINK IT PIGEONHOLES US. CAN I, CAN I? SUGGESTION I HAVE IS TOWN HALL MEETINGS. JUST SKIP THAT. NEXT LINE ARE INFORMAL GATHERINGS, WHICH I WAS GOING TO SAY THE EXACT SAME THING. YEAH, JUST SKIP TOWN HALL MEETINGS OR INFORMAL GATHERINGS WITH ITS SMALL, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF SAYING, SO JUST ELIMINATE THAT FIRST LINE. JUST ELIMINATE THAT FIRST LINE. YEAH, I WOULD I COULD AGREE WITH THAT. AND THEN I WOULD JUST ADD BECAUSE WHEN I HOLD THE TOWN HALL, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE EVER. IT'S NOT A CITY COUNCIL FUNCTION. IT'S A TOWN HALL. OR IT WAS. RIGHT. YEAH.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS JUST I THINK IS THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP. AND, JOSH, YOU CAN JUMP INTO THIS, BUT THIS IS JUST A KIND OF A FORMALIZATION OF A POLICY. SO WE DON'T RUN INTO OPEN ISSUES. YEAH. TO CLARIFY SO THAT EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE. BUT IT'S NOT TRYING NECESSARILY TO AVOID ANY OBLIGATIONS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT IT. BUT I WOULD THINK THAT I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. AND I THINK WE'D AGREE WITH THE INTENT. IT WAS WRITTEN, WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS STILL PERFECTLY FINE. YEP. AND THEN ON B ON B, ONE B. I WOULD JUST PUT IF DESIRED. I WOULDN'T SAY THAT WE HAVE TO DISTRIBUTE FLIERS FOR EVERY TOWN HALL MEETING WHERE EACH COUNCIL MEMBER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISTRIBUTING FLIERS, AND YOU MAY NOT NEED A FLIER TO HAVE FLIERS. BUT IF IT'S YOU KNOW, YOU MAY NOT. YOU MAY JUST WANT TO DO FLIERS. I MEAN, I'M NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES, RIGHT, EXACTLY. OH, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. FOR DISTRIBUTING FLIERS, WHETHER YOU WANT FLIERS OR NOT. SO YOU. SO WHAT WOULD YOU JUST SAY? JUST JUST ADD. ADD IF DESIRED. OR WOULD IT BE JUST EASIER TO SAY THIS B IS MAY DISTRIBUTE FLIERS. THERE YOU GO. AND MAKE IT SIMPLE. JUST SAY THE SPONSOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER MAY MAY DISTRIBUTE FLIERS. OKAY. SHORTER. BUT I THINK PART OF THE INTENT THERE IS TO TELL COUNCIL MEMBERS IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO DISTRIBUTE THEM, NOT COUNCIL STAFF. YES, I AGREE ON THAT. SO. THE NEW WORDING SHOULD BE SOMETHING REGARDING COMMUNICATION OF THE EVENT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DISTRIBUTION OF FLIERS. NOW THAT BEING SAID THOUGH, IF WE ASK WARREN OR ALLEN IN PERSON TO HELP OUT, THEY'LL HELP US. IT DOESN'T GO KNOCKING DOORS. I KNOW NOT THAT SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE TO DISTRIBUTE THE FLIERS FOR IT. NO, THEY'LL HELP US. WELL, IT SAYS IN THE NEXT SLIDE THAT THEY WILL SAY THE FLIER. OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YEAH. I DON'T WANT TO SAY. I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT THEY CAN'T HELP US. YEAH. IT SAYS HOW ABOUT HOW ABOUT WE CHANGE IT AND IT SAYS THE SPONSOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER COORDINATES ANY DISTRIBUTION OF FLIERS. IF NECESSARY. I KNOW

[00:40:04]

WHERE YOU'RE GOING. YEAH, I ACTUALLY JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE FLIERS. REALLY? BECAUSE WHAT IF YOU WANT TO DO SOCIAL MEDIA? WHAT IF YOU WANT TO DO WHAT IF THAT'S SUFFICIENT? THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING COMMUNICATION. YEAH. WE DISTRIBUTION OF COMMUNICATION. I THINK JUST CHANGE FLIER TO COMMUNICATION. YEAH. YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. I DON'T REALLY LOVE THAT WORDING, BUT YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. WE'RE SPONSORING. COUNCIL MEMBER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PUBLIC. NOTIFICATION. RIGHT? WELL, YEAH. FOR. YEAH, FOR NOTIFYING THE COMMUNITY. SO DO YOU WANT TO SAY COUNCIL STAFF CAN ASSIST INSTEAD OF WILL ASSIST? I THINK WE WILL HELP WITH CERTAIN THINGS AS FAR AS. YEAH, BUT IT SAYS YOU WILL HAVE A CHOICE. YEAH. SO YEAH THEY THEY ARE THE STAFF. THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. YEAH. WELL I KNOW FOR A ROOM THEY HAVE TO HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME GOING AND RESERVING THE ROOM AT THE FIRE STATION OR SOMETHING. AND IF, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT HELP. YEAH. SO I'M OKAY WITH THE WILL. I LIKE YOUR WORDING. KELVIN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PUBLIC NOTIFICATION. PUBLIC NOTIFICATION? YEAH. COMMUNITY OR COMMUNITY NOTIFICATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OR COMMUNITY PUBLICITY OR. I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE WARREN. YOU'RE THE COMMUNICATIONS GUY. FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT WORD. RIGHT? IT'S LIKE I ALREADY WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. WE FIGURED IT OUT. NOW WE SCREWED IT UP IN A DIFFERENT WAY. YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER FURTHER FEEDBACK ON THIS GUIDE? ITEM TWO POINT. RULE 2.6 I PUT LIKE BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE DOING TOWN HALL, DO WE NEED TO PUT AN S IN THERE.

COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE IN PARENTHESES. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD. WHICH LINE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S PROBABLY ONE PERSON SAYS, HEY, YOU WANT TO DO A TOWN HALL AND THEN THEY CAN GET. THE OTHER THING IS THE OTHER THING IS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IS THAT IF YOU SAY ANY MEMBER, THEN IT'S ONE COUNCIL MEMBER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TOWN HALL. IT HELPS WITH CLARITY. AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU IT GOES BACK TO CLARITY WITH OBAMA SO THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE TRYING TO CALL A COUNCIL MEETIN, BECAUSE COUNCIL MEETING CAN ACTUALLY BE DECLARED BY TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS. AND SO IF WE JUST LIMIT IT TO THIS IS DONE BY ONE, THEN WE'RE CLEARLY INSIDE OUR BUMPER ON THE LANES ACROSS THE STREET. DON'T YOU THINK? JOSH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I THINK YEAH, I THINK I THINK IT IS CLEAR FROM THIS THAT YOU'RE NOT TURNING TO THE SPECIAL MEETING PROVISION WHERE THAT WOULD BE INVOKED BY TWO MEMBERS.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT DISTINCTION OR THAT DISTANCE DOES ANY HARM. BUT I WOULD AGREE. I WILL ALSO JUST POINT OUT, JUST TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY PUSHBACK ON IT. PATRICK RAISED A POINT WITH ME. MAYBE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOTICE OR THE FLIERS, RATHER THAN USE THE WORD NOTICE, IS BECAUSE IT DOES OVERLAP WITH THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT. I WONDER IF IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO USE SOMETHING LIKE ANNOUNCEMENT OR INFORMATION. IF WE WORKSHOP THAT WITH WARREN A LITTLE BIT AS A COUNCIL. OKAY WITH THAT? YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD? NO, THAT'S ALREADY NOT ALREADY BEEN SAID. ALL RIGHT. BUT THANK YOU FOR ASKING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. NEXT SUBTOPIC. THANKS FOR BEARING. WITH OUR ONGOING TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. SO THIS IS A POTENTIAL AMENDMENT TO RULE 6.6 WHICH IS ABOUT COMMITTEES. SO IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE ITEMS, THE COMMITTEES IN RED THAT ARE STRIKED OUT HAVE NOT BEEN ASSIGNED BY COUNCIL. AS COUNCIL HAS RATHER DECIDED TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETINGS OR IN FORMAL COUNCIL MEETINGS. SO THIS WOULD JUST MAKE THAT OFFICIAL, THAT THOSE COMMITTEES THAT ARE STRIKED OUT, STRUCK OUT, RATHER WOULD BE REMOVED, STRUCK, STRIKED FROM COUNCIL RULES AND INSTEAD ONLY HAVING COMMITTEE OF BUDGET AND AUDIT, THE COMMITTEE OF THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE AS REQUIRED.

SO RED LINE ABOVE CLEAN VERSION BELOW. THAT. I THINK THAT WOULD FALL WELL UNDER THE AND WASN'T THE ONE THEY WERE. I THINK COURTNEY WAS JUST ASKING US TO BE PART OF THIS. YEAH. SO YEAH, IT WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED. BUT THAT STILL IS A COMMITTEE. SO THESE ARE JUST COMMITTEES THAT THE COUNCIL REQUIRES OR STANDARD. YEAH, YEAH I LIKE I LIKE THIS CHANGE. I THINK THIS IS. I THINK THIS IS A REALLY GOOD BALANCE. WITH THE ADDITION OF LINE B OR SECTION B. YEAH I THINK YOU'RE GOOD. WARREN I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE COULDN'T. I THINK WE JUST SAY THE FOLLOWING STANDING COMMITTEES ARE ESTABLISHED. THIS LINE RIGHT HERE, STANDING COMMITTEES. IT'S A STANDING COMMITTEE. RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH. THE FOLLOWING STANDING STANDING R STANDING

[00:45:01]

COMMITTEES HAVE. I THINK STANDING COMMITTEES ARE ESTABLISHED. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO I MEAN, IT'S WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE BY CITY COUNCIL. WE ARE IT'S IN OUR RULES. YEAH. AND I JUST AND WE GET OUT OF A LITTLE MORE PASSIVE. AND ALI EVEN NEEDS TO REPLACE STANDING COMMITTEE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IF YOU IF WE WANT TO IF WE WANT TO PUT IF WE WANT TO PUT A STANDING COMMITTEES COLON I'M GOOD WITH THAT. OKAY. SO WE CAN SIMPLIFY IT. SIMPLIFY. YEAH. COUNCIL RULES. YEAH. YEAH. BUT THE LESS WORDS THERE ARE THE EASIER IT IS TO READ. AND THE LESS WORD IS C REDUNDANT AFTER B. TEMPORARY COMMITTEES MAY BE CREATED AT TEMPORARY COMMITTEES MAY BE CREATED. I WOULD SAY IT IS. I WOULD SAY YES. OKAY. GOOD LUCK. REDUNDANCY STRIKE. SEE JORDAN.

LIKE REDUNDANCY LIKE. SO LET IT BE STRICKEN. SO LET IT BE DONE. SO BRANDY'S OUT. SOME ADDITIONAL HOMEWORK ON THE PAST TENSE OF STRIKE. APPARENTLY. SO WE'LL RETURN AND STRIKE ON THAT ONE.

STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE. STRIKE. STROKE. STROKE. STROKE. STROKE. STROKE. STROKE. STRICKEN. ANY.

ANY ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK ON 6.2 OR 6.6? RATHER. NOPE. ALL RIGHT. GOOD. MOVING ON TO. LET'S SEE.

ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION. THIS IS TWOFOLD. THE FIRST IS REGARDING COUNCIL MEMBERS. THE SECOND IS REGARDING THE GENERAL PUBLIC. OBVIOUSLY COVID 19 HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON WHAT ARE NOW NORMS AS FAR AS COMMUNICATING AND BEING ABLE TO TUNE IN TO MEETINGS. BUT THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER SOME OF THE THINGS THAT COUNCIL CAN CONTINUES TO DO CAN BE, IS, ARE NECESSARY, OR IF THERE SHOULD BE SOME REVISIONS. SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOUR INPUT ON THESE TWO QUESTIONS. IT SAYS ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION UNDER THAT CAMERA UP THERE. BUT DOES THE COUNCIL WANT TO CONTINUE PERMITTING REMOTE ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION BY COUNCIL MEMBERS. AND THIS WOULD ASSUME THIS IS OUTSIDE OF EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, SUCH AS A DECLARATION OF EMERGENCY OR UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THE COUNCIL COULD OTHERWISE INCORPORATE. AND THEN DOES THE COUNCIL HAVE AN INTEREST IN REVISING THIS PRACTICE IN GENERAL, WHICH IS ■TO SAY, DO WE REVISE OUR RULES AND ONLY PERMIT ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION UNDER SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES? WHY WOULD WE NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN? IS THERE A REASON FOR IT? OBVIOUSLY, FROM SOMEONE WHO'S PARTICIPATING IN MODE AT THE MOMENT? I WAS GOING TO SAY, SINCE THE VOICE IN THE CEILING, THE VOICE, WHAT'S THE DOWNSIDE OF NOT ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN LIKE IS FOR ME, I MEAN, AND FOR OTHERS WHO HAVE TRAVELED OUT, THIS IS AN AMAZING ASPECT OF BEING ABLE TO DO THIS AND PARTICIPATING. LIKE, WHY WOULD WE TAKE THAT AWAY? IS THERE A REASON? I THINK THE REASON MY POINT OF VIEW IS THERE'S I FEEL LIKE THOSE WHO ARE ABSENT, NOT NECESSARILY PAMELA, BUT IF YOU'RE ABSENT IN PARTICIPATING ELECTRONICALLY. THERE'S NUANCES.

THERE'S IT'S I FEEL LIKE IT'S LESS EFFECTIVE. HOWEVER, I DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE, ESPECIALLY WITH PAMELA. AND HER WORK SITUATION HAS CHANGED A LOT OVER THE LAST LITTLE WHILE. I DON'T WANT TO EXCLUDE HER FROM MEETINGS. SO THERE'S TWO SIDES TO THAT COIN. SO I WANT TO KEEP ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION THAT I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON. I JUST THINK YOU NEED TO BE MORE VISIBLE FOR US SO THAT WE CAN SEE THAT YOU'RE THERE. SO I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT SINCE WE SWITCHED WHEN YOU GUYS WENT OVER TO THE POLICE STATION, I WATCHED YOU GUYS AND I COULD NOT SEE ANYBODY THAT WAS REMOTE, SO IT DIDN'T MATTER WHO WAS REMOTE. SO THE SHOW THAT GOES ON, ON YOUTUBE OR WHATEVER MAY OR MAY NOT, EVEN IF HER CAMERA WAS ON, I CAN'T EVEN SEE HER BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SHOW UP. YEAH, SO I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT UNLESS WE CAN GET IT, SHOW THAT THE PERSON IS ON THERE. WHEN WE WERE DOING COVID, ALL OF OUR PICTURES SHOWED UP AND IF YOU WEREN'T THERE, YOU WERE DOING YOUR LAUNDRY. PEOPLE KNEW YOU WERE ON. BUT THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAD EVERYBODY WAS ON THEIR OWN CAMERA ON THE. BUT PRIOR TO COVID, I WOULD PARTICIPATE ELECTRONICALLY AND MY PICTURE WOULD BE UP THERE. PRIOR TO COVID, THOUGH, WE WEREN'T USING ZOOM, BUT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE THIS OUT. NO. AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS A REFLECTION OF THE NORTH. SO WE DO FOCUS ON THIS CAMERA ONLY BECAUSE LARGE IN PART OTHER PARTICIPANTS, OTHER PANELISTS HAVE THEIR CAMERAS OFF. SO IT'S JUST SIMPLY AN EFFORT TO MAKE A CLEAN PRESENTATION. WHEREAS IF THERE WERE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IF WE'RE GOING TO BE REMOTE, WE SHOULD HAVE OUR FACE ON THERE, WHICH WE CERTAINLY CAN'T DO. SO, LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST A

[00:50:01]

RESULT OF THE ONLY PUTTING CAMERAS ON COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO ARE REMOTE OR CITIZENS WHO ARE CALLING IN YOU DON'T YOU DON'T SEE ALL MEMBERS. SO THAT'S I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY FOLLOW UP. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS OR STAFF. THE MAYOR, OR IF CORBIN IS IN NORTHERN ILLINOIS FOR SOME REASON, HE'S NEVER BEEN TO ILLINOIS, EVER. YOU KNOW. HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU JUST KNOW WHY HE I KNOW HE WENT TO ILLINOIS EIGHT WEEK STINT. I WAS KIDDING. HE HE HE ALMOST GAVE UP HIS HIS UTAH RESIDENCY TO GO TO ILLINOIS.

RIGHT. IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR THE CITY MANAGER, RIGHT? THE I DON'T CARE IF WE US AND THE STAFF. I'M I'M STARTING TO. AND SO HERE'S HERE'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE THE BODY TO DO. AND THAT WOULD BE TO HAVE THE ILLUSTRIOUS CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SITTING IN THE CHEAP SEATS OVER THERE.

AND WE'RE THROWN UNDER THE BUS BECAUSE HE'S THE FIRST AMENDMENT DUDE. RIGHT. BUT. HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WITH THE ELECTRONIC MEETINGS AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE OCCURRED, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE CITY. AND WE'VE SOME OF US HAVE ATTENDED THE ULCHI. PRESENTATIONS ON PUBLIC COMMENTS AND YOUR PUBLIC COMMENT POLICY FROM TODD, WHAT'S HIS NAME, TODD SHEERAN. SHEERAN, SHEERAN OVER IN HARRIMAN. SOME OF US HAVE SAT THROUGH THAT STUFF. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS PART OF THIS IS THE CITY, AND WE CAN DO THIS IN AS AN UNCODIFIED ORDINANCE BECAUSE WE PASS IT BY ORDINANCE LIKE WE DO WITH THE PLANNING STANDARDS, AND IT BECOMES OUR POLICY THAT WE HAVE A SOLID.

LEGITIMATE, LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE. BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A COUPLE OF PLACES THAT WE'RE WEAK RIGHT NOW. PUBLIC COMMENT POLICY THAT IS PART OF THIS THAT WE CAN ADOPT TO DEAL WITH PUBLIC COMMENTS AND, AND CLEAN UP A COUPLE OF OUR VERY WEAK ISSUES. THE NEXT ITEM IS THAT THE NEXT ITEM. YEAH, TWOFOLD. FIRST ONE IS COUNCIL MEMBERS. AND THEN THE NEXT ONE IS PUBLIC COMMENT. SO YEAH, YOU'RE YOU'RE SEGUE INTO IT. BUT IF WE IF UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THIS HEARING THAT THE COUNCIL DOES WANT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THERE SEEMS TO BE SUPPORT TO CONTINUE PERMITTING ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME ELEMENTS OF THE PRACTICE THAT WE NEED TO REVISE. SPECIFICALLY, HAVING THE CAMERA ON AN INTERN, HAVING THE COUNCIL OFFICE HAVE CAMERAS ON, I WANT TO ADD OR THERE WELL, THERE'S A CONCERN THERE. NO, I'M NOT SAYING AGAINST THE CAMERA OR NOT. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE HAD COVID AND WERE SICK, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS BE ON CAMERA, BUT I STILL WANT TO PARTICIPATE. HOWEVER, IN THE FUTURE, WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR IF SOMEONE IS ELECTED ON A COUNCIL WHO HAS THEIR CERTAIN RELIGIOUS PRACTICES THAT DO NOT MAKE IT SO THAT THEY ARE COMFORTABLE BEING ON CAMERA IF THEY HAVE TO BE REMOTE. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE AWARE OF THAT. SO WE'RE NOT JUST A BLANKET STATEMENT OF LIKE, YOU HAVE TO BE ON CAMERA WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING. FUTURE COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY HAVE DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT IF WE DO REVISE, THAT, WE DO HAVE A WAY TO MAKE SURE WE'RE RESPECTFUL FOR ANYBODY WHO DOES COME ON COUNCIL IN THE FUTURE. I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SOMEONE. THEY'RE GOING TO JUST NEED TO BE HERE OR BE ABSENT. I'VE HEARD NATIVE AMERICANS ARE KIND OF AGAINST BEING PHOTOGRAPHED. WELL, THAT'S BUT WE LIVE IN A VERY REMOTE WORLD NOW, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PARTICIPATING, BUT WE'RE BEING RESPECTFUL. I DON'T YOU'RE NOT WRONG. IT'S NOT WRONG. WE DO LIVE IN A REMOTE WORLD, BUT WE DO ENCOURAGE IN PERSON MORE THAN BEING ONLINE, WHICH ISN'T ISN'T A HUGE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. I JUST LIKE TO. MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IN PERSON ATTENDANCE IS A PART. HOWEVER WE CAN DO THAT. I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO INSTITUTE CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE. OKAY, WE'LL TAKE THAT FEEDBACK. YEAH, THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. YEAH. AND THAT WILL AGAIN THAT WOULD COME BEFORE YOU AGAIN BEFORE YOU ADOPTED IT. SO THIS IS THE SECOND ELEMENT WHICH IS PUBLIC COMMENT. AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF THE FIVE MINUTE GROUP OPTION. WHEREAS THE CURRENTLY UNDER RULES THE CHAIR HAS THE ABILITY TO AFFORD A SPOKESPERSON FIVE MINUTES OF TIME. THE CONCERN THERE HOWEVER, IS THAT YOU HAVE THE COUNCIL HAS NO WAY OF ENFORCING OR HAVING OTHER PEOPLE TALK. SO SMALL

[00:55:03]

LOOPHOLE BUT A POINT OF CONSIDERATION. IS THERE SUPPORT IN REMOVING THE FIVE MINUTE PERMISSION? I DON'T SUPPORT IT. I GET VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT COME TO OUR COUNCIL TO GIVE ANY OPINIONS, AND THE FEW TIMES THAT WE HAVE THEM, I'VE NEVER BEEN HERE UNTIL MIDNIGHT BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT. AND YES, SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO THEIR FIVE MINUTES AS A GROUP AND THEN INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE GROUP ARE GOING TO GET UP AND GIVE THEIR SPIEL.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC. SO FOR ME, I WILL NOT SUPPORT THAT. I'M RIGHT ON BOARD WITH WHAT I'M SAYING. IT HASN'T HAD THAT MUCH TO MY LIFE. I'M KIND OF THERE. BUT WHAT I DON'T WHAT I DON'T LIKE IS SOMEBODY STANDING UP AND SAYING, I'M DOING A GROUP NOW.

IF THEY WANT TO SHOW US THE GROUP AND THE NAMES THAT THEY REPRESENT BECAUSE THEY, THEY SAY, HEY, I'M DOING THIS GROUP AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE I'M REPRESENTING, AND THEN THOSE PEOPLE DON'T GET TO TALK BECAUSE THEY'RE BECAUSE THEY SPECIFICALLY SAID, I'M REPRESENTING THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE, THEN I'M OKAY WITH THAT. YEAH. AND THAT'S THE WHOLE THEORY PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THE FIVE MINUTE. SO WHEN HAS THAT BEEN AN ISSUE? WELL, YOU CAN DO LIKE THE I MEAN YOU CAN ASK THEM ALL THE TIME. WELL THE LAST COPPER MEADOWS ONE, THE FIRST GUY GETS UP AND SAYS I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD, WANTS FIVE MINUTES AND THEN AND THEN 33 OTHER PEOPLE TALK FOR THREE MINUTES. BUT SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO MINUTES. HERE'S THE THING. NO, NO. RIGHT. BUT THEN THE NEXT GUY GETS UP AND SAYS, I'M ALSO SPEAKING FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO LET'S ALLOW EVERYBODY FIVE MINUTES THEN. OR LET'S ALLOW EVERYBODY THREE MINUTES. LET'S PICK A NUMBER AND APPLY IT TO EVERYBODY. BECAUSE IF YOU SAY I'M SPEAKING FOR A GROUP AND THEN WE DON'T ENFORCE IT, YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR A GROUP, THEN WHAT DO WE DO? I THINK THAT'S UP TO THE CHAIR. I THINK THE CHAIR COULD VERY EASILY SAY THAT WE SEE HOW WELL THAT WENT OVER. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, HE DID THAT AND HE GOT HE LIMITED IT RIGHT. BECAUSE HE PUBLISHED HE LIMITED HE LIMITED IT TO TWO MINUTES WITH THE GROUP STAND UP, HE SAID. HE SAID FOR THE CHAIR TRIED TO EXERCISE DISCRETION IN THAT SAME WAY. IT'S GOING TO HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. SO THIS ITEM WE'RE GOING TO LIMIT IT TO BE PUBLIC COMMENT FROM 3 MINUTES TO 2 MINUTES PER PERSON. AND IT ONLY TAKES ONE. SO I AGREE WITH WHAT KEVIN WAS SAYING, BUT I'M GOING TO ALSO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT'S TWO MINUTES. SO I'M JUST GOING TO SAY LEAVE IT AS IT IS. WHY DON'T WE ALLOW EVERYBODY FIVE MINUTES? IT'S ONLY TWO MINUTES. IT'S ONLY TWO MINUTES IF YOU'RE LETTING EVERYBODY DO IT. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO WE'RE NOT LETTING EVERYBODY DO IT. BUT YOU ARE. BECAUSE IF THE NEXT GUY GETS UP AND SAYS, I'M ALSO SPEAKING FOR THE GROUP, NO, THEN YOU CAN STOP HIM AND SAY, NO, THAT GROUP HAS ALREADY SPOKEN. YOU'LL GET THREE MINUTES. BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT GROUP HE'S REPRESENTING? BUT AS SOON AS YOU SAY THAT, YOU GET WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PLANNING, WELL, THEN THAT HAPPENS. AND IT'S REALLY BEING ABUSED. I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM TO SOLVE IS WHERE I HAVEN'T SEEN IT BE ABUSED. AND I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE. WELL, YOU'VE SEEN ONCE, BUT IT WASN'T ABUSED BECAUSE ALL OF US CAME TO THAT MEETING KNOWING WE WERE GOING TO BE SPENDING 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR IN THIS. SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS ABUSED THAT WAY. I BELIEVE IT. BUT EVERYONE DID THEIR THREE MINUTES. IF WE'D HAVE GIVEN THEM ALL FIVE MINUTES, LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER JAKE. WELL, AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR GIVING EVERYBODY FIVE MINUTES, I'M JUST ADVOCATING FOR CONSISTENCY. IF IT APPLIES TO ONE, IT SHOULD APPLY TO EVERYBODY. IF THE NEXT GUY GETS UP AND ASKS FOR FIVE MINUTES, BUT THEY WON'T, MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM IF YOU SET UP WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN SALT LAKE CITY. I WON'T GO THERE. WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING CONSISTENT? BUT I DON'T MIND EVERYBODY THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. I DON'T MIND WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN IS SAYING THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO SPEAK FOR A GROUP, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE GROUP. THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE REPRESENTING SHOULD BE LISTED OR AT LEAST SOMEHOW SPOKEN OF IN THE THING. AND YOU HAND THAT IN.

THIS IS THE GROUP I'M SPEAKING FOR, AND I GUESS I COULD GO WITH THAT BECAUSE AND WE NEED TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THIS, WHETHER THEY'RE REMOTE OR IN PERSON. THEY NEED TO GIVE THEIR FULL NAME, NOT JUST SUE. YEAH. FROM THE CITY. NO, YOU NEED TO SAY I'M SUE JONES AND I LIVE AT I RESIDE IN WEST JORDAN. HERE'S HERE'S HERE'S MY HERE'S MY OPINION ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT.

AND I THINK TODD SAID WE COULD DO THIS. I RECALL MY LCT FROM A FEW MONTHS AGO. WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS REQUIRING THEIR NAMES AND THEIR ADDRESSES. THEY JUST DON'T BECOME PART OF THE RECORD. WE CAN REQUIRE THEM, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. JUST LIKE THE WE CAN MAKE THEM FILL OUT A CARD AND THEN THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR CINDY THAT THAT WOULD ALLOW THAT WOULD ALLOW CINDY TO ACTUALLY CAPTURE FOR THE MINUTES THE RIGHT SPELLING OF THE NAME AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND SO IF WE IF WE HAD A FORM THAT SAID, I'M SPEAKING FOR A GROUP AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE I'M SPEAKING FOR,

[01:00:04]

THEN THEY GOT THEIR NAMES FILLED OUT. RIGHT. AND YOU AND WE WOULD SAY KENT SHELTON'S TALKING ON BEHALF OF KAYLEEN KELVIN AND BOB. WE GET THEIR NAMES SPELLED RIGHT, AND THEN EVERY OTHER INDIVIDUAL HAS TO FILL OUT A CARD THAT SAYS NAME AND ADDRESS. SO. AND PHONE NUMBER, BECAUSE THEN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT IF WE WANT TO FOLLOW UP WE CAN. PLUS IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE MINUTES TO CAPTURE. RIGHT? I WOULDN'T REQUIRE THE PHONE NUMBER ALONE. I WOULD GIVE AN OPTION OF PHONE NUMBER OR OR EMAIL. YEAH, WE'D STOP REQUIRING IT BECAUSE IT ONLY REALLY APPLIED IF SOMEBODY WANTED SOMEBODY TO GET BACK TO THEM. RIGHT? RIGHT. A PHONE NUMBER OR A CONTACT. AND I DON'T WANT IT PUBLISHED IN THE MINUTES, BUT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE HAS A CLIPBOARD ON, ON THE TABLE AND JUST, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GIVE COMMENT, YOU GOT TO WRITE DOWN YOUR NAME. AND THE COOL THING THAT WOULD COME FROM THAT AND THE GREEN COATS FOLLOW UP TO MAKE SURE IF SOMEONE SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO, YOU KNOW, MY VOICE WASN'T HEARD AND WE GO, NO, YOU'RE THIS PERSON SPOKE FOR YOU. THEY SAID THEY SPOKE FOR YOU. YEAH. AND THEN BUT THEN WHAT IF THEN WHAT IF I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE AND THE GUY WHO'S THE SPOKESPERSON DIDN'T MAKE THE POINT THAT I WANTED TO MAKE. AND NOW I'VE GOT MY RIGHT TO SPEAK. THAT'S WHY. THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARE. WE HAVE WE HAVE THE RIGHT IN ANY MEETING TO LIMIT COMMENTS IF WE SO CHOOSE BY A VOTE OF THE BODY. SO I THINK WE'RE ALREADY COVERED.

[01:05:05]

WELL, MAYBE THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN WRITE OUR POLICY, THE RIGHT POLICY. AND THEN IT GIVES THE PLANNING COMMISSION ENOUGH WIGGLE ROOM TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, TOO. BUT IT'S STILL CONSISTENT. SO FOR ME, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE.

BUT THERE ARE SOME ISSUES. OKAY, I'M GOING TO SAY THIS OUT LOUD. THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD IS WRITTEN. I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO PUT THIS ON THE PUBLIC RECORD, BUT I'M GOING TO BE TYPING. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE DESIGNATED PUBLIC COMMENT, NOTWITHSTANDING OUR WHAT WE SAY, WE HAVE AN OPEN THREE MINUTE PERIOD THAT THEY CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THEY WANT, AND THEY CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT THE PUBLIC IN THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND WE CAN'T STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. THAT MEANS THAT EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE COULD COME IN AND TALK ABOUT, LET'S JUST HYPOTHETICALLY SAY SOMETHING LIKE COPPER, METALS AND TALK FOR THREE MINUTES IN PUBLIC COMMENT AND THREE MINUTES IN PUBLIC HEARING. AND RIGHT NOW, IN OUR CURRENT RULES, THEY CAN WE ASK THEM NOT TO. WE ASK THEM NOT TO.

BUT IF WE WRITE THE LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD, WE CAN STOP THAT. BUT AGAIN, WHAT PROBLEM ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE? I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN A PROBLEM. HE HE DOES, BUT HE DOES. HE DOES THINK IT'S BEEN A PROBLEM EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T THINK IT HAS. YEAH.

WE'RE ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION. IF YOU DON'T SEE IT AS A PROBLEM THEN. SO I DON'T SEE IT AS A PROBLEM TO SOLVE. HERE'S THE OTHER THING THAT I SEE AS A PROBLEM. AND SALT LAKE CITY FIXED THIS, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD MUCH OF A PROBLEM IN OUR CITY YET. BUT IT WOULD. IT'S NOT INCONCEIVABLE THAT IT WOULD SHOW UP. SALT LAKE CITY. SALT LAKE CITY WAS BARRAGED WITH AN HOUR AND A HALF OR TWO HOURS OVER HAMAS AND ISRAEL. FOR HOW MANY WEEKS? BUT BUT WE CAN SOLVE THAT, TOO. BUT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SOLVE THAT IS TO HAVE IT IN A LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE PUBLIC, LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE PUBLIC COMMENT POLICY THAT WE CAN, I THINK, I THINK WE CAN LIMIT WE CAN LIMIT THE TIME. LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE IS ONE THING, BUT A GOOD PRACTICE IS ANOTHER THING WE CAN LIMIT. THE PLANNING COMMISSION THING WAS LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE, BUT WAS IT A SMART THING TO DO? MAYBE NOT. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IS YEAH, YOU CAN CUT IT OFF. BUT THEN WHO DO YOU CUT OFF? IF WE COULD, LIKE I COULD SAY AS THE CHAIR, I COULD SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO FOR AN HOUR AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD AND THEN WE CAN CUT IT OFF THERE. IT'S NOT CUT OFF BY OKAY, WE'RE DONE. IT WOULD BE LIKE AT THE HOUR WE WILL STOP HAVING HOPE. WHY NOT JUST PUT THAT IN POLICY NOW THEN. THAT'S THE LINES OF THE SECOND TALKING POINT HERE. BECAUSE IN RULES DOES HAVE THE AUTHORITY. THE BODY DOES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO LIMIT TIME. BUT THE SECOND POINT IS YOU WANT TO ESTABLISH THAT IN YOUR RULES, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THERE COULD BE A MOTION TO EXTEND TIME AS DESIRED. I'M OKAY TO PUT IN POLICY, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT ANYWAY. I THINK IT'S I THINK THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION, IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND LET'S GET A POLICY IN PLACE THAT THAT COVERS MAYBE PROBLEMS THAT DON'T YET EXIST, BUT THAT IT'S THERE WHEN THOSE PROBLEMS DO EXIST, BECAUSE IT'S THEY MIGHT START GETTING BARRAGED WITH IT'S NOT OUTSIDE THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY OF. I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS FIRST ON THE COUNCIL, WE HAD ALMOST AN HOUR OF PUBLIC COMMENT DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD FOR AN ITEM THAT WASN'T ON THE AGENDA, BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN THE BASEBALL LEAGUE HEARD THAT WE MIGHT BE TEARING DOWN A CONCESSION STAND, AND WE HAD TO TELL ALL THE PARENTS, I'LL COME OUT AND SAY, DON'T LET THEM TAKE OUR KIDS.

AND WE HAD WE WEREN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT IT. IT WASN'T EVEN ON OUR RADAR. WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. BUT SOMEBODY HEARD A RUMOR AND WE HAD AN HOUR OF PUBLIC COMMENT ON THAT CONCESSION STANDS. IN 2016. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BEFORE I WAS ON THE COUNCIL. 2015 IS THAT CONCESSION CONCESSION STAND STILL STANDS. IT'S GONE. SO THAT'S WHERE THEY DID. THEY DID KNOW SOMETHING WE DIDN'T KNOW, BUT THE COUNCIL DIDN'T TEAR DOWN THE STAND. BUT THAT'S WHERE BUT THAT SEE BUT AND I AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT I THINK WE NEED TO WE NEED TO BE PROACTIVE AND NOT REACTIVE. AND SO THAT'S WHY I WOULD LIKE THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO JUST LOOK AT WHAT WOULD BE BEST. THERE ARE OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE PRACTICES, RIGHT, PRACTICES. AND YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THE BEST PRACTICE? WHAT ARE THEIR TERMS BETWEEN A DESIGNATED PUBLIC FORUM AND A LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM AND SOME OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT WE NEED TO PUT IN OUR POLICY SO THAT WE CAN WE CAN BETTER MANAGE OUR MEETINGS IF WE NEED TO. THAT'S WHERE I WANT. I THINK WE WELCOME THAT WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO IT. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I HAD EXPECTED WOULD HAPPEN AFTER THE DISCUSSION TODAY HERE IS THAT WE WOULD TAKE THE GUIDANCE THAT WE RECEIVED FROM

[01:10:04]

THE COUNCIL BASED ON SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT MR. HALLMARK AND MR. ANDERSON HAD PUT TOGETHER, AND, AND THEN CRAFT A POLICY THAT LINED UP WITH THAT. OBVIOUSLY, WE CAN DO IT WITH WHAT WE VIEW OUR PERSPECTIVE ON BEST PRACTICES TO BE. BUT A LOT OF THESE AREAS, THERE IS ROOM FOR PREFERENCE, RIGHT? THESE ARE POLICY DECISIONS. AND THERE'S ROOM TO SAY, WELL, WE THINK IT SHOULD BE MORE TIME. WE THINK IT SHOULD BE LESS TIME, ALL THAT DIFFERENT KIND OF STUFF. SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE THE FIRST SHOT AT SOMETHING, WE CAN DO THAT. I THINK MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO TRY TO GET SOME KIND OF DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL AS WE'RE PREPARING THAT. BUT BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO GIVE US TO WORK WITH ON IT, AND THEN WE WILL ABSOLUTELY BRING SOMETHING BACK TO YOU THAT HOPEFULLY WILL BE PRODUCTIVE USE OF YOUR TIME TO CONSIDER. AT THAT POINT, I JUST WANT TO ADD COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN ALREADY MENTIONED IT AND MR. CHANDLER IS AWARE, BUT THESE ARE PROACTIVE ELEMENTS THAT ARE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU'LL SEE AT TRAININGS, AT CONFERENCES. OTHER CITIES ARE DOING THESE THINGS. WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO BE TREND SETTERS, BUT THESE WOULD BE PROACTIVE EFFORTS IN THE EVENT WE NEEDED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THEM. AND AS AS THE DISCUSSION HAS GONE TODAY, WE CAN ALL THINK OF EXAMPLES WHERE PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN INVOKED.

MAYBE NOT IN OUR CITY, BUT WE ARE SEEING IT. AND SO I THINK THERE IS SOME WISDOM TO TRYING TO BE PREPARED FOR THOSE, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS BEFORE THEY COME TO OUR CITY, BEFORE WE TACKLE THE THIRD ONE, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, I BELIEVE THERE WAS, AT LEAST FOR IN OPPOSITION FOR THE FIRST BULLET POINT. SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE SECOND ONE. DOES THE COUNCIL WANT TO DEFINE A MAX TIME LIMIT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? DO WE WANT TO PUT DOES THE COUNCIL SUPPORT PUTTING IT IN WRITING OR LEAVE IT AS IS? I THINK WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS WE WANT TO HAVE THE OPTION TO DO A MAX TIME LIMIT. SO WHAT YOU CURRENTLY HAVE. SO ALL RIGHT, ALL THIS IS ASKING IS DO YOU WANT TO PUT A DEFINED TIME LIMIT IN RULES? I THINK THERE'S I THINK THERE'S TWO QUESTIONS. WE COULD EITHER SAY PUBLIC COMMENT IS AN HOUR AND WE'LL EXTEND IT OR I'M JUST I WANT IT TO BE AN HOUR AND EXTEND. WE CAN VOTE TO EXTEND IT OR WHICH WOULD BE WHICH WOULD BE LET IT GO AS LONG AS WE WANT. AND THEN WE CUT IT OFF WHEN WE WANT TO. I THINK IT WOULD BE CLEARER FOR EXPECTATIONS TO SAY PUBLIC COMMENTS GO AN HOUR AND THEN IF THERE'S MORE PEOPLE, THEN WE CAN SAY, YEAH, WE WANT TO EXTEND IT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE CLEANER. THAT'S ME. AND YOU'RE TALKING ONLY PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD. NOT ALSO PUBLIC HEARINGS. CORRECT. AFTER PUBLIC HEARING, WE COULD DO PUBLIC HEARINGS IF WE WANT, BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS IS JUST PUBLIC COMMENT. I'M NOT SURE THAT I WOULD WANT TO LIMIT PUBLIC HEARING. MAKE SURE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. PUBLIC CLARIFICATION. YEAH, BUT THAT'S A GOOD THAT'S A GOOD CLARIFICATION. I THINK FOR THE HOUR STUFF. I THINK THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD FOR ME. PUBLIC HEARINGS, PUBLIC HEARINGS. I THINK WE HAVE TO. GO THROUGH. I THINK WE HAVE TO LISTEN. I THINK THAT'S JUST PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS IS, IS HEAR THOSE COMMENTS. GOOD CLARIFICATION. SO IS THERE SUPPORT TO MOVE ON PUTTING A TIME LIMIT IN COUNCIL RULES. LIKE WHAT KELVIN SAID. YEAH.

SURE. OKAY. FOR OKAY. SO IT'LL COME BACK. YEAH I WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS THIS PUBLIC COMMENT HAS TAKEN MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES. SO YOU GUYS ARE OVER YOUR TIME. I WAS SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF TWO GROUPS CREATING CITYWIDE APPLICABILITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. AS FAR AS WHAT COUNCILMEMBER GREEN WAS TALKING ABOUT, UNIVERSAL POLICY, WE COULD DEFINITELY LOOK INTO CREATING THAT. LET'S LET'S LET THE CREATIVE WORD WRITERS, I BET THEY CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S APPLICABLE BUT CAN BE MODIFIED OR FLEXIBLE. WE'LL WORK WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, CREATIVE WRITING. AND I TOOK LEGAL WRITING, AND THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE NOT THE SAME. OKAY.

LASTLY, DOES THE COUNCIL DESIRE TO PERMIT IN-PERSON PUBLIC COMMENT ONLY? AND THIS THIS IS A TREND AROUND CITY OF CITIES AROUND US HAVE BEEN MOVING THIS WAY. SO A PROACTIVE CONVERSATIO.

THE LEGISLATURE ALLOWS. TO HAVE HERE NOW OR WHATEVER YOU YEAH YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR CAMERA ON BUT BUT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MAKE COMMENT VIA THE INTERNET. I WOULDN'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THEY ARE, BECAUSE IF ENOUGH CITIES BECOME MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THEY ARE, GUESS WHAT? THERE WILL BE LEGALLY, WE DON'T HAVE TO ALLOW THE ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. CURRENTLY WE DON'T HAVE TO PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. WE'RE THE ONLY CITY THAT ALLOWS THIS. I PERSONALLY WOULD LOVE TO SEE COUNTY DOES. I

[01:15:01]

WOULD I'D LIKE TO GET RID OF THIS. I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO SEPARATE US, LET THEM COME AND DO IT TO OUR FACES. AND I'M HAPPY TO LET THEM DO IT. LET THEM. ONCE AGAIN, THE CAMERA DOESN'T WORK. SO EVEN IF THEY'RE ON, WE DON'T SEE IT. TO ME, IT'S JUST ANOTHER WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE THEM COMMUNICATE WITH US. AND I WELCOME IT. SO I'M NOT AS WELL. I MEAN, WHAT IF YOU'RE SICK? WHAT ABOUT THE ELDERLY? WHAT IF IT'S BAD WEATHER? I WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THE PUBLIC IS ACCESSIBLE. EVEN IF THEY DON'T USE IT AS MUCH, IT'S STILL AN OPTION FOR THEM TO TUNE IN AND BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY TO US. IT'S MOSTLY BEING ABUSED, IN MY OPINION. SO I DON'T THINK ANY OF YOU COULD DISAGREE WITH THAT. I DON'T THINK IT'S BEING ABUSED BECAUSE, YEAH, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY THINGS AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DO THINGS REGARDLESS IF IT'S IN PERSON OR ONLINE, AND IT'S STILL AN OPTION FOR OTHERS TO BE ACCESSIBLE TO US AND BE ABLE TO COMMENT. AND I'D RATHER TAKE THE ABUSE IF WE'RE IF IT'S STILL GOING TO OPEN THE DOORS FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I DON'T LIKE TO MAKE POLICY BASED ON INDIVIDUAL INCIDENTS, RIGHT? NEITHER.

NEITHER DO I. BUT I DO KNOW THAT IN OTHER CITIES AND THIS IS THIS IS THIS IS WHY. THIS IS WHY SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES HAVE TREADED TREAD LIGHTLY ON THIS. IS THAT WHAT WHAT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN OTHER CITIES IS THAT YOU GET PEOPLE WHO USE THOSE COMMENTS AND PUT THEM, AND THEY GET THEM RECORDED, AND THEN THEY MONETIZE THEM ON YOUTUBE AND SOME OTHER PLACES, AND THEY HAVE THAT'S WHERE CITIES HAVE SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT RECORDING. THE OTHER OPTION WE DO HAVE, BY THE WAY, IS THAT. AND SO HERE'S WHERE I'LL TELL YOU, I WOULD GO WITH THE BALANCE. IS THAT I'M OKAY IF WE DO PUBLIC COMMENT BY ELECTRONICS, BUT IT IS NOT RECORDED BECAUSE THEN IT THEN IT BLOCKS THEIR ABILITY TO USE THE RECORDED. WE DON'T HAVE TO RECORD THAT PART OF IT. WE CAN JUST SAY THEY SPOKE ON PUBLIC COMMENT IN THE MINUTES AND WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THAT RECORDING AS PART OF THE MINUTES, I BELIEVE. AND THEN THEY CAN'T USE THE VIDEO AND GO TO POST THEIR SECTIONS AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF ON FACEBOOK TO MONETIZE IT AND DO ALL THOSE OTHER KIND OF THINGS. I COULD, I COULD DO THAT. IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T RECORD IT, IF WE CONTINUE TO RECORD IT, I'D BE A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED. I MEAN, IF WE CONTINUE TO RECORD IT AND PUBLISH THE RECORDING, I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT PIECE. SO ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN THEY COME IN PERSON AND SPEAK? BECAUSE THEY CAN MONETIZE THAT JUST AS EASILY. EVEN MORE SO THAT'S THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY SOME CITIES DON'T RECORD THERE. THAT'S WHY SOME CITIES DON'T RECORD THEIR PUBLIC COMMENTS. YEAH. WELL YOU CAN FIND ALL THOSE ON YOUTUBE. BUT THAT'S MOSTLY PEOPLE COMING IN LIVE AND DOING IT. NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO MONETIZE. I CALLED IN BECAUSE THEN THEY GET CALLED OUT FOR HIDING BEHIND, YOU KNOW, ANONYMITY OF YOU NOT BEING THERE IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY'S FACE AND SAYING WHAT YOU WANT. AND THIS IS JUST ANECDOTAL, BUT THE ONES THAT I'VE SEEN PEOPLE COMMENTING IN PERSON, YOU KNOW, THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS WHERE THEY ARE ABLE TO GET A RISE OUT OF THE COUNCIL AND OR JUST DO SOMETHING STUPID, SOMETHING SOMEBODY COULD DO THAT FROM MARYLAND. I WOULDN'T DO ELECTRONICALLY. YEAH. SO THAT'S THAT'S MY ISSUE WITH THE ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION. AND SEE, I WOULD ALLOW I DON'T MIND MAY NOT EVEN BE A RESIDENT OF OUR CITY. I DON'T MIND ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION. I WOULD PREFER CAMERAS ON AND OFF THE SCREEN WHEN SOMEBODY IS COMMENTING ON ON THE ZOOM. I CAN SEE IT NOW. YEAH. THAT THAT I THINK BECAUSE THAT IS I THINK OUR BIG THING IS THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, A FEW PEOPLE WHO HIDE BEHIND BEING ABLE TO BE. YEAH. BE BE BE SOMEWHAT ANONYMOUS BY NOT BEING, HAVING TO DO IT IN PERSON AND, AND TO MAKE A LAW JUST TO DO THAT I THINK IS AGAIN AND A LAW FOR AN INDIVIDUAL BECOMES A HARD THING WHEN IT ALSO THEN GOES ON TO THE WHOLE FIRST AMENDMENT SIDE, WATER DISTRICT COUNCIL IS SO INCONVENIENT. THE WATER DISTRICT ALLOWS ZOOM COMMENTS, BUT IF YOU'RE DIALED IN ON THE PHONE, THEY DON'T ALLOW YOU TO COMMENT. SEE, I COULD LIVE WITH THAT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH YOU. DIALED IN POTTERY STYLE, OR EVEN TOUCH TONE, OR EVEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS BORN AFTER 1990. LET ME EXPLAIN. WOW. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOU'D HAVE TO BE CONNECTED WITH THE SMARTPHONE, WITH THE CAMERA AND THE CAMERA OR A COMPUTER, AND IT HAS TO BE ON. YEAH. THE LEGISLATURE REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE THE CAMERA ON TO COMMENT. WELL,

[01:20:06]

AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD PRACTICE TO HAVE YOUR FACE IN FRONT OF IT. IT JUST THAT ALLOWS THAT ALLOWS ALL BUT THE MOST TECHNOPHOBES. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THE MOST TECHNOPHOBES REALLY AREN'T GOING TO GET PARTICIPATING REMOTELY ANYWAY. SO WHAT'S YOUR SOLUTION FOR PHONE CALLS? AGAIN, PHONE CALLS JUST WOULD BE ALLOWED TO LISTEN TO THE MEETING, BUT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO COMMENT. IF YOU ONLY HAVE A LANDLINE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO. SO WHAT ABOUT ALEXANDRIA? WELL, AGAIN, THEY CAN GO TO A LIBRARY OR WHATEVER, RIGHT? THE WHOLE CONCERN, AN ADDITIONAL CONCERN. CHAD AND I KIND OF MADE EYE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT EVEN BE RESIDENTS OF OUR CITY. I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT HEARING FROM THEM AND OPENING THIS ELECTRONICALLY. I MEAN, ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD COULD CALL IN, YOU KNOW, AND LET'S SAY THAT LET'S SAY THAT SOMEBODY HAS A BEEF WITH OUR POLICE AND FINE, IF THEY HAVE A BEEF WITH OUR POLICE, BUT IF THEY'RE NOT A RESIDENT OF OUR CITY, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. SO I'D REALLY LIKE TO. I MEAN, I KNOW I CAN'T FORCE COUNCIL TO GO THIS DIRECTION, BUT. I'M. I'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE IN PERSON. COMMENTS. JUST TO THAT. IF IT DOES IN OTHER CITIES IN OUR VALLEY ARE ALREADY DOING IT THAT WAY, THEN WHAT'S THE HARM? THE HARM IN LIMITING PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO US? AND I DON'T I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. I'D RATHER YEAH, BUT IF WE LIMIT THIS, THEN WE JUST TAKE HOW WILL WE LIVE IN THIS? THAT'S THAT'S MY QUESTION. TELL ME HOW WE'RE LIMITING. BEEN TALKING BEFORE YOU STARTED. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. GO AHEAD. WHICH IS THE. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY. WE'VE EVEN SEEN THAT WITH SOME OF THE WHERE WE'RE MANY RESIDENTS HAVE CHIMED IN ONLINE TO BE ABLE TO GIVE FEEDBACK TO US. THAT'S GIVING THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO HAVE MULTIPLE ACCESS. LET'S SAY I'M A YOUNG MOM WITH KIDS AND I CAN'T MAKE IT IN PERSON. HAVING THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHIME IN TO CITY COUNCIL TO ME, IS WORTH IT. WE'RE CREATING THIS ACCESSIBILITY AND TAKING AWAY THAT ACCESSIBILITY IS LIMITING.

NEO-NAZI AND ILLINOIS. EXCEPT WE HAVE COUNCIL, EXCEPT WE HAVE COUNCIL COMMENTS. WE HAVE COUNCIL COMMENTS. AND YOU'RE LIMITED TO ONE MINUTE. OKAY. WE HAVE I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE BECAUSE WE HAVE ACCESSIBILITY TO THE COUNCIL OTHER WAYS. BUT THAT'S ME. AND THEY CAN SEND AN EMAIL. THEY CAN CALL AND LEAVE. THEY CAN DO ALL OF THAT THINGS AND THEY DO. AND THEY ALSO COME IN AND DO PUBLIC COMMENT. THIS IS JUST THIS IS A WONDERFUL CHANCE FOR THEM TO SAY, HEY, LOOK, WE HAVE ALL THESE WAYS TO GET AHOLD OF US, INCLUDING BEING ONLINE AND BEING ABLE TO TALK IN PERSON ONLINE. IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT IN PERSON, PEOPLE WILL STILL EMAIL, PEOPLE WILL STILL STOP BY. BUT TAKING AWAY ANOTHER ASPECT OF THEM TO REACH US, I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT'S WISE. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE PEOPLE GET AHOLD OF US AND BE ABLE TO TALK TO US. IN MY OPINION, THERE'S PLENTY OF ACCESS. YOU'RE NOT WRONG, AND PAMELA IS NOT WRONG. YOU'RE RIGHT. WE ARE THE MOST ACCESSIBLE PUBLIC BODY I'VE EVER SEEN. WE HAVE A 24 HOUR COMMENT LINE. WE HAVE AN EMAIL ADDRESS THAT GOES TO THE WHOLE GROUP THAT ANYBODY CAN SEND ANYTHING TO WHENEVER THEY WANT. WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT AND MEETINGS. WE ALL HAVE PUBLIC TELEPHONE. WE ALL HAVE OUR PHONE NUMBERS PUBLISHED ONLINE. SO LET'S NOT GO BACKWARDS. LET'S CONTINUE THIS AND BE AN EXAMPLE TO OTHER CITIES AND SAY, LOOK, WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM RESIDENTS OF GETTING AHOLD OF US. WE WANT TO HAVE EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT THEY HAVE TO TELL US WHAT THEY NEED TO TELL US. WE HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE THAT ALLOWS COMMENTS. WE HAVE YOUTUBE CHANNELS. WE HAVE WE HAVE A MILLION WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD BY OUR CITY.

WE. THIS IS A WAY FOR IT TO BE ON PUBLIC RECORD, FACEBOOK AND ALL OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA. TO ME, I MEAN, I'M NOT EVEN THERE'S I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME. OKAY.

SO I'M AGAINST TAKING IT AWAY FOR YOU AGAIN. I DON'T I DON'T NEED TO TAKE IT AWAY. PAMELA IS AGAINST WHERE ARE YOU AT I AGREE OKAY. SO I DO WANT CAMERAS ON AND THIS FACE ON THE SCREEN.

OKAY. AND I AGREE WITH CAMERAS LIKE THAT. OKAY. SO WE GOT FOUR FOR CAMERAS. CAN I CLARIFY THAT? TWO CAMERAS FOR THE COMMENTERS. YEAH OKAY. YEAH. CAMERAS FOR THE COMMENTERS PROHIBIT. CAN WE CAN WE AT LEAST PROHIBIT PHONE CALLS. YEAH. AND THEN THE DIAL IN PHONE CALLS WOULD JUST BE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. THAT'S AT LEAST FOR ME, THAT'S AT LEAST A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. BUT MY POINT WITH MY POINT WITH LISTING ALL THAT, ALL THESE MILLIONS OF WAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO GET AHOLD OF US, WHICH IS GREAT, IS THAT ANYBODY, EVEN IF YOU TOOK A SEMI DRACONIAN STEP

[01:25:01]

OF SAYING NO PUBLIC COMMENT OR LIMITED PUBLIC COMMENT OR ONE MINUTE OR 30S OR WHATEVER, IT'D BE REALLY HARD FOR SOMEBODY TO SAY, CITY COUNCIL IS TRYING TO LIMIT MY ACCESS TO YOU. SO YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS. THE ONE THING WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, THOUGH, IS IF WE LIMIT THE ONE WAY THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S IN THE MOST PUBLIC SETTING, RIGHT, THEN IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE HIDING BEHIND. AND IF IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE DOING IT FOR A PARTICULAR COMMENT, OR WE'RE DOING IT TO TARGET A SPECIFIC GROUP OR FOR SPECIFIC OR SO THAT OUR MEETINGS AREN'T SO LONG.

RIGHT. THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF WE HAVE TO AVOID ANY. I WORRY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ADA IF WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS, LIKE HAVING THIS CHANNEL AND HAVING HAD IT FOR SO LONG, RIGHT? BUT HAVING HAD THIS SO LONG, IF SOMEBODY'S HOMEBOUND, THEY CAN STILL CALL IN. YEAH. THERE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT, NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT. THAT'S WHAT THE CONSTITUTION. WELL, OUR FOREFATHERS REALLY I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST. I, I DISAGREE WITH THE BODY, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ACCEPT THE. YEAH, OKAY. DISAGREE. YEAH I DISAGREE. YEAH. WE'LL TALK TO. THE STAFF AND THERE'S MORE.

YEAH. BUT BUT MY BODY DISAGREES WITH ME. YEAH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER POINTS TO THIS OR JUST A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON ZOOM? THERE IS AN OPTION TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO PRE-REGISTER. THOSE OF YOU WHO MAY HAVE DONE ULK2 LATELY HAVE SEEN THAT YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR NAME, YOUR EMAIL. WE COULD LOOK INTO ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, OR WE COULD REQUIRE THAT YOU HAVE TO. I WOULD LIKE TO LIMIT IT TO IF WE'RE GOING TO RESIDENTS OF THE CITY, IF I AGREE WITH IF WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE A CARD, WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THE LIMITED TO RESIDENTS OF THE CITY A LITTLE BIT MORE BEFORE. HERE'S WHY I WOULDN'T. WE ALSO WANT TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE OUR WONDERFUL LIBRARIAN ACTUALLY DOESN'T LIVE IN THE CITY. AND SHE DOES PUBLIC COMMENT. AND THERE'S OTHER LIKE A TEACHER WHO CAME AND DID PUBLIC COMMENT. SO IT WE I DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO LIMIT TO THE CITY, BUT PEOPLE AT LEAST HAVE TIES TO THE CITY. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT. AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD DO THAT EITHER BECAUSE I WOULD I WOULD LOVE SOMEBODY TO COME IN HERE WHO'S A RESIDENT OF SANDY, WHO HAS NO TIES TO WEST JORDAN, BUT SAYS, HEY, HERE'S SOMETHING THAT MY CITY IS DOING. YOU GUYS OUGHT TO LISTEN. YOU GUYS OUGHT TO CHECK THIS OUT, WHATEVER. AND YOU CAN'T LIMIT IT TO IT WAS JUST ONLINE. I CAN'T WE CAN'T ALLOW SANDY AND NOT ALLOW FORT LAUDERDALE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU'RE EITHER IN THE CITY OR YOU'RE NOT IN THE CITY, RIGHT. SEE, I WOULD I WOULD AGREE WITH THE REGISTRATION PROCESS BECAUSE THE REGISTRATION PROCESS WOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT OF FILLING OUT THE CARD. YEAH. AND ALONG THOSE LINES, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WOULD LIKE A GROUP REPRESENTATIVE TO FILL OUT THE CARD. DO YOU WANT TO MANDATE THAT ANYBODY, ANY INDIVIDUAL IN CHAMBERS LIKEWISE FILLS OUT A CARD. YES. SO THEN IT'S CONSISTENT ONLINE AND IN PERSON. YEAH. EVERYBODY FILLS OUT. EVERYBODY FILLS OUT A CARD. IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY FRIENDS ON THE HILL, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. YEAH, WELL. AND IT CAPTURES AND IT CAN BE EITHER THE CARD OR IT CAN BE A SHEET. YEAH. CLIPBOARD SHEET, WHATEVER.

WHATEVER WORKS. JUST WRITE YOUR NAME. OKAY. THAT GIVES US A LOT TO WORK ON. ANY FINAL COMMENTS ON THAT LIKE THAT IMPLEMENTED BY SEVEN. YOU GOT IT. YOU GOT YOU GOT YOU GOT YOU GOT 32 MINUTES SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A PLEDGE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT DONE WITH THE NEXT DISCUSSION.

DISCUSSION OF THE UPCOMING 2025 RESIDENT SURVEY. I DO WANT TO FINISH THIS UP BY SIX SO THAT WE CAN GET TO THE FOURTH THING SO WE CAN. I DON'T WANT TO I DON'T WANT TO LIMIT YOUR FIVE MINUTES, BUT THIS WILL LARGELY DEPEND ON COUNCIL'S FEEDBACK. BUT BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT FEEDBACK. AND THEN AT SIX I'M KIND OF GOING TO CUT IT OFF. AND THEN WE CAN TALK MORE AT A DIFFERENT TIME IF WE NEED TO. YEAH. WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO START WITH. THERE IS NO TIMELINE FOR THE SURVEY AT THIS POINT. COUNCIL HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST TO BE MORE INVOLVED EARLIER IN THE PROCESS. SO BEFORE YOU BOTH PHYSICALLY AND THEN THE LAST YEAR'S SURVEY WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET. BUT BEFORE YOU IS THE PRINTED SUMMARIZED SURVEY FROM 2024. AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR COUNCIL'S FEEDBACK ON WHAT QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT WANT TO INCORPORATE AS FAR AS QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ASKED. AND THEN WE THE IT'S NOT HIGHLIGHTED ON YOUR PAPER BECAUSE IT PRINTED BLACK AND WHITE, BUT THAT CURRENTLY IS THE ONLY ONE OFF FROM LAST YEAR, MEANING IT WAS THE ONLY TRENDY ONE. SO IT WAS ABOUT CEMETERY. SO THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT WILL NOT BE ASKED FOR THIS UPCOMING SURVEY. BUT UNDER THE FIRST SECTION REPEATING QUESTIONS THOSE THAT'S DATA THAT IS TRACKED ON A REGULAR BASIS ON. WELL THIS IS OUR THIRD YEAR WITH Y2 ANALYTICS. SO AS THE YEARS GO BY, THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT WILL BE ASKED. AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO MORE EFFECTIVELY TRACK DATA AND BE ABLE TO SEE TRENDS IN OUR RESIDENTS. AND THEN THE DEMOGRAPHIC QUESTIONS BELOW ASKING THEIR GENDER WHAT YEAR THEY WERE BORN, HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN IN WEST JORDAN, ETC. SO AGAIN, THE ONE THE ONE OFF TRENDING QUESTION WILL NOT BE REPEATED THIS YEAR, BUT LARGELY WE WANTED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY FEEDBACK FROM COUNCIL. AS FAR AS QUESTIONS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ASKED THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK. AND THEN AFTER WE GET

[01:30:01]

YOUR FEEDBACK, WE'LL WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THE QUESTIONS THAT CORBYN WAS ABLE TO GATHER FROM A CABINET MEETING. AND CORBYN CHIME IN AS YOU NEED TO, BUT THAT'S WHY I WASN'T ABLE TO LOAD ON MY COMPUTER OR I WASN'T ABLE TO DOWNLOAD IT, SO I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SCAN THROUGH THIS.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A LARGE FILE, BUT I REALLY STRUGGLED. I WAS TRYING TO DOWNLOAD AND OPEN IT FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS. COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM, I'LL SEND YOU THE SIMPLIFIED FILE. THAT'S THAT IS BEFORE COUNCIL RIGHT NOW. SO I'LL GET THAT TO YOU. SO LAUREN, I'M GOING OFF OF WHAT WAS ON HERE FOR NUMBER ONE. AND IT'S A QUESTION THAT'S ASKED IF THE CITY IS HEADED IN THE RIGHT OR WRONG DIRECTION. AND THE MAJORITY OF THE RESPONDENTS PUT, THEY DON'T KNOW. SO I WOULD LIKE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION OR STATEMENT. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY DON'T THEY KNOW? LIKE HOW CAN WE HELP THEM TO KNOW? IS IT IS IT THEY'RE NOT GETTING A FOLLOW UP FOR YES OR NO. SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE I DON'T I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A FOLLOW UP FOR THAT I DON'T KNOW OPTION. SO YOU'RE SAYING IF THERE ISN'T ONE WE NEED TO HAVE THAT. YEAH.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A FOLLOW UP FOR THAT. AND THEN WHEN WE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SERVICES, IF THEY SCORE BELOW 70%, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHY. LIKE IF I'M SAYING MY SEWER SERVICE IS BELOW 70%, WELL WHY IS IT BACKING UP IN MY BASEMENT? IS THAT WHY. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHY. THEIR RATE, SOME OF THEIR RATINGS I FOUND A LITTLE BIT ODD. IT WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S INTERESTING. WHY IS THAT GETTING A 60? BECAUSE AND WITHOUT KNOWING THAT I FOR ME, THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS SURVEY IS TO IMPROVE OUR CITY SERVICES. SO IF THE DATA DOESN'T GET THE INFORMATION TO HELP US IMPROVE, THEN I DON'T THINK IT'S MONEY WELL SPENT. SO THE SERVICES ONE IS LIKE, IF YOU GAVE SOMEBODY A ONE STAR ON GOOGLE AND DIDN'T LEAVE AN EXPLANATION. YEAH, YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW WE CAN IMPROVE OUR RATING, SO TO SPEAK? YEAH. KIND OF. YEAH. AND THERE AND I THINK WE NEED A CUT OFF POINT.

SO I DON'T CARE IF IT'S 70, BUT AT SOME POINT A CERTAIN THRESHOLD THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A QUESTION THAT CORBIN STAFF HAS HAD IS SPECIFICALLY WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT. IS IT TOO MUCH? IS IT TOO LITTLE? WHY IS THIS BEING RATED SO LOW? SO THAT IS A THAT IS A QUESTION THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR CLARITY ON. SO, YOU KNOW, THE ONE THAT COMES UP WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT IS CODE ENFORCEMENT. IT'S A CODE ENFORCEMENT. THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IT'S GOT THE WORST SCORE OF ANY DIVISION IN THE CITY. AND THE QUESTION IS, IS IT BECAUSE THEY'RE OVER ENFORCING, OR IS IT BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDERENFORCEMENT OF. AND IT'S PROBABLY BOTH, BECAUSE THE WHOLE CITY HAS AN OPINION ON THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. NO ONE'S HAPPY WITH THE BALANCE. WE'RE STRIKING. YEAH, YEAH. BUT GETTING IT SOME OF THOSE I AGREE GETTING IT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ASKING THE WHY YEAH IS HAS GOT TO. AND MY LAST ONE HAS TO DO WITH THE WEBSITE. IT'S HOW THEY GET THEIR INFORMATION.

IT'S UNDER THAT QUESTION. AND I'M JUST CURIOUS IF WHERE IT WHERE IT SAYS WEBSITE IF THEY GET IT THERE OR NOT. IF WE'RE ABLE TO INCLUDE OUR WEB ADDRESS THERE JUST SO IT'S RIGHT THERE FOR THEM TO SEE IN CASE THEY AND IF THEY DO ACCESS OUR WEBSITE, I'D BE CURIOUS TO KNOW HOW MANY TIMES IN A GIVEN PERIOD, EITHER A MONTH OR IN A SIX MONTH PERIO, OR A YEAR, HOW OFTEN DO THEY GO TO OUR WEBSITE? WITH OUR WEBSITE? I'M CURIOUS IF OUR GENERAL PUBLIC ARE ACCESSING OUR WEBSITE, OR IF IT'S MORE IF I WANT A BUILDING PERMIT, IF IT'S MAINLY FOR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIRECTOR. YEAH. SO JUST A LITTLE MORE SO IN-DEPTH INFORMATION. SO TO CLARIFY ON THAT OPTION, INSTEAD OF SAYING WEBSITE, LITERALLY SPELL OUT THE URL. WESTACOTT YOU TORGOV GIVE IT. I JUST WANT IT THERE SO THAT THOSE THAT ARE SAYING THEY GET IT FROM SOCIAL MEDIA ARE LIKE, WHY DO YOU GO THERE TO THERE IS A WEBSITE. YEAH, OKAY. YOU KNOW. YEAH. YOU MAY NOT. IT'S PRECISELY WHAT PEOPLE KNOW, WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW. I'M SURPRISED I AM. I WOULD SAY THE SAME THING.

ON NUMBER 14. HOW SATISFIED WERE YOU BY THE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY OF THE CITY EMPLOYEE. IF THAT GOES BELOW A CERTAIN NUMBER, WE NEED TO ASK FOR SOME CLARITY. CAN WE ASK CLARIFYING CLARIFICATION? CAN YOU REQUIRE ANY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION OF THIS? FOR OPEN ENDED RESPONSES ARE TOUGH, THOUGH, BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S GOT TO PARSE THROUGH THAT. BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS THEY WOULD CLICK. HOW SATISFIED WERE YOU IF IT WAS LESS THAN A CERTAIN NUMBER, THEN THE BOX WOULD POP UP. IT'S GREATER THAN A CERTAIN NUMBER. AND IT CAN BE SIMPLE

[01:35:02]

TOO. I MEAN, THOSE CAN BE JUST ANOTHER POP UP. THAT'S EMPLOYEE WAS RUDE. I DIDN'T GET MY ANSWER. I MEAN, IT CAN BE. IT COULD BE 3 OR 4 THINGS. YEAH. BUT COUNCILMAN JACOB, WE DON'T WE DO NOT ASK ANY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION. SO THE QUESTION OTHER THAN WHICH CITY YOU LIVE IN. YEAH. EXCEPT TO MAKE SURE THEY LIVE IN WEST. YEAH, BUT. TO ZACH'S QUESTION, I DO. HOW MANY SURVEYS DO WE DO THAT? ACTUALLY, NO, I'M TALKING ACTUALLY. WE AS PEOPLE FILL OUT THAT SAY I MEAN, I GET THESE ALL THE TIME FROM MY HEALTH CARE PROVIDER. RATE YOUR SERVICE AT ONE YESTERDAY. RATE YOUR SERVICE AT THE ER LAST WEEK AND THEN AND THEN YOU, YOU RATE THE SERVICE AT THE EMERGENCY ROOM. AND THEN AT THE END IT SAYS WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE CONTACTED FOR FOLLOW UP? IF SO WHAT'S YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS. RIGHT. WE COULD ASK A QUESTION LIKE THAT TO SAY WOULD YOU LIKE THE CITY TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU AND LEAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS? IT'S A COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY, BUT AND IT'S NOT A MANDATORY. OR IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOU'D WANT THE CITY TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU? GIVE US YOUR EMAIL OR PHONE AND LET US CALL YOU. BUT YES, WE COULD. AS LONG AS THE MAYOR AND CORBIN AND ALLEN ARE FEEL THEY HAVE THE STAFF TO DO THAT, I DON'T. THE MAYOR WILL DO IT PERSONALLY. YOU KNOW HE WILL. SO WE WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT SOMEONE HAD A CONCERN WITH THE CITY SO WE CAN FOLLOW UP AND ADDRESS IT AND HAVE PEOPLE FRUSTRATED AND NOT HAVE A WAY TO FOLLOW UP AND ADDRESS IT. OKAY. AND YOU KNOW WHAT, CORBIN? IT MAY BE AS SIMPLE AS, YOU KNOW, THIS CULTURE HAS GOT ALL THOSE LINKS, RIGHT. YOU GET TO THE END, YOU CAN CLICK AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? IF YOU'VE GOT A CONCERN, CLICK ON A BUTTON. IT'LL TAKE YOU TO ANOTHER PAGE THAT YOU CAN FILL OUT. THE SURVEY IS COMPLETED AND IT SUBMITS THE SURVEY AND TAKES THEM TO ANOTHER PAGE, IT SAYS THIS. YEAH. SO WE KEEP THE SURVEY RESULTS ANONYMOUS. BUT THERE IS A METHOD TO FOLLOW UP VOLUNTARILY. YES. OFFER YOUR INFORMATION. YEAH THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S GOOD. MAYBE A THOUGHT. YOU WANTED TO ADD ON THE BACK SIDE I THINK I REALLY LIKE THAT. DO YOU WANT TO BECOME DO YOU WANT TO BE CONTACTED BY CITY STAFF, YES OR NO? YES. MR. NAME, EMAIL ADDRESS OR PHONE NUMBER? I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT FOR SURE. I'M FINE WITH ANY OF THOSE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE. YEAH, I DO HAVE A QUESTION ON THE HOUSING ONE. A IS HOUSING AFFORDABLE IN WEST JORDAN? I'M NOT I'M NOT SURE. IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE IN UTAH AND MANY OTHER STATES. WHERE IS THAT QUESTION GOING AND WANT TO CLARIFY THAT THIS IS NOT THE ACTUAL QUESTION THAT THEY WOULD GET. THIS IS JUST A DISCUSSION POINT. WE WOULD WHY WE'RE COMING UP WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS WHY TO AND THEIR STAFF WOULD COME UP WITH A WAY SUBJECTIVE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVE BOUGHT HOUSES FIVE YEARS AGO WILL SAY NO, I BOUGHT MY HOUSE 20 YEARS AGO AND MINE'S AFFORDABLE, RIGHT? IS AFFORDABLE ANYMORE AND AFFORDABLE. IT WAS BARELY AFFORDABLE FOR ME WHEN I BOUGHT IT. YOU, YOU. IT IS AFFORDABLE FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU LIVE THERE AND YOU HAVE A LOW MORTGAGE RATE OR YOU PAID IT OFF. I DON'T KNOW, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU DON'T KNOW. WE QUESTIONS ONE THROUGH FOUR AT THE END WERE US BRAINSTORMING WHAT MIGHT BE THE ONE OFF QUESTIONS THIS YEAR. EVERY 90% OF THE SURVEY IS THE SAME. EVERY YEAR WE TRY TO TRACK THE LONGITUDINAL DATA. WE LOOK FOR TRENDS IN OUR SERVICES. ARE WE SLIPPING IN A CERTAIN SERVICE LEVEL? BUT EVERY YEAR THERE'S A ONE OFF ISSUE DU JOUR RIGHT? RANKED CHOICE VOTING, THE CEMETERY, WHATEVER. THIS WAS US ONE THROUGH FOUR ON THE END IS US BRAINSTORMING WHAT THOSE ISSUES OF THE DAY MIGHT BE. AND WE WE'RE NOT MARRIED TO ANY OF THESE. AND THIS IS WHERE WE WANT YOUR INPUT. ARE YOU WHAT ARE THE HOT BUTTON ITEMS YOU WANT TO ASK THE RESIDENTS ABOUT? MY I LIKE THE FIRST TWO THE BEST BECAUSE HOUSING LIKE THAT BRINGS UP IS HOUSING AFFORDABLE IN WEST JORDAN? NO. WELL, IT DEPENDS ON YOUR DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE. YEAH. WE WEREN'T REALLY THINKING ABOUT ASKING IS HOUSING AFFORDABLE? WHAT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IS ASKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING. QUESTIONS LIKE IF I WERE ON THE COUNCIL, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT TO TRY TO ADDRESS ISSUES OF HOUSING AFFORDABILITY. YOU HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT GARAGES. WE HAVE LOTS OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM OR DENSITY OR RATIOS OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. DO YOU WANT TO ASK ANY

[01:40:02]

QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS OR NOT? IGNORE THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ON HERE. DO YOU WANT TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING? THAT'S A BIG ISSUE. IN ENVISION UTAH HAS BEEN ASKING ABOUT IN THEIR SURVEYS. DO WE CARE THIS WEST JORDAN OPINION, OR I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THIS QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK I WOULD. I WOULD DO YEAH I HAVE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO IT.

I'M SORRY. IT'S HARD TO SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING. EVEN IF WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. WE CAN ALSO TAKE THIS FEEDBACK TO OUR LEGISLATORS. SO EVEN THOUGH MAYBE WE AS A CITY, MAYBE OUR HANDS ARE TIED, IT'S SOMETHING AS A CONVERSATION THAT WE CAN WORK ON WITH OUR OUR CITY. YOU GUESSED WHERE I WAS GOING. SO GOOD JOB. BUT YEAH, PAMELA'S IN THE CEILING. I WOULD, YES, I HEAR RIGHT UP THERE. SO DO RESIDENTS SUPPORT CITY INVOLVEMENT IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING? I WOULD LIKE A MORE SPECIFIC DO THEY SUPPORT US USING TAX BUT USING THEIR MONEY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING BECAUSE WHICH IS HOW THE CEMETERY QUESTION WAS PREVIOUSLY ASKED.

YEAH, BUT IT SPECIFIED THE USE OF TAX DOLLARS. DO YOU SUPPORT THE CITY UTILIZING TAX DOLLARS FOR THE ONGOING CEMETERY? BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THEIR ANSWER FOR THAT. I WOULD SAY THAT THAT TO SEE, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT'S A REPHRASE OF I WOULD SAY THAT'S THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION BECAUSE, YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT LIKE REGULATIONS AND ZONING AND OTHER THINGS THAT DON'T NECESSARILY. YEAH, BUT OUR CITY AND THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS DU JOUR, IF YOU WANT TO CALL A QUESTION, IS DOES YOUR IS. THAT I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO HEAR. AND WE'RE AND WE WERE GOING TO WORK ON IT THIS SUMMER, BUT MAYBE WE POSTPONE IT A LITTLE BIT. AND THAT IS BUSINESS LICENSE RULES. HOW FRIENDLY ARE THEY. ARE YOU IS THERE SOMETHING THAT'S IMPEDING YOU FROM RUNNING YOUR BUSINESS IN WEST JORDAN? ANY OF THOSE KIND OF QUESTIONS? AND THE OTHER ONE THAT I WOULDN'T MIND ASKING, I MIND ASKING IS, IS BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A PUSH ON CHILD CARE. IS CHILD CARE ACCESSIBLE IN WEST JORDAN, AND IF SO, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WEST JORDAN COULD DO TO MAKE CHILD CARE MORE ACCESSIBLE IN THE CITY? YEAH, I'M NOT AGAINST EITHER OF THOSE. I JUST WONDER IF THE BUSINESS ONE, IF WE'RE ASKING SPECIFICALLY BUSINESS QUESTIONS, IF THAT MIGHT BE BETTER SENT OUT, BUT I KIND OF THOUGHT THAT MY QUESTION WOULD BE IS HOW? HOW? OKAY, YOU COULD ALWAYS ASK THIS QUESTION, DO YOU OPERATE A HOME BASED BUSINESS? AND THE SECOND QUESTION IS, IS A LICENSED IN WEST JORDAN? SURE. BUT BUT BUT THAT WOULD BE MY QUESTION IS HOW MANY PEOPLE OPERATE A HOME BASED BUSINESS IN WEST JORDAN. THAT AND DO OUR NUMBERS MATCH WHAT WE HAVE LICENSED? BUT THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO BE LICENSED? YES THEY ARE. NO THEY'RE NOT. YES THEY ARE THEY. YOU'RE REQUIRED TO BE LICENSED. IF YOU'RE ONE OF THE BUSINESSES THAT REQUIRES A LICENSE, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY A HOME BASED HOME BASED BUSINESSES HAVE A LICENSE. THEY'RE JUST NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRED TO PAY THE LICENSE FEE TO PAY A FEE UNLESS THEY HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. WELL, THEN WE'RE GOING TO GET ANSWERS. WELL WE MIGHT I WOULDN'T GIVE YOU AN ORDER. I'D LIKE TO SEE A QUESTION ABOUT PARKS AND ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION, WHY YOU WERE ASKED, AND THE ELABORATE. OH, JUST LIKE TO THE CITY, DOES THE CITY PROVIDE ADEQUATE FACILITIES FOR RECREATION AND. FOCUSING ON REC CENTER WITH ADEQUATE FACILITIES FOR RECREATION, ADEQUATE FACILITIES FOR RECREATION FOR. AND TRAILS FOR, FOR RECREATION PURPOSES AND FOR. JUST ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS. IT'S WELL, IT'S THE QUESTION DO YOU USE THE TRAILS? OR WOULD YOU USE THEM IF THERE WERE MORE OF. MAYBE IF YOU USE THE TRAILS AND IF NOT, WHY? BUT I AGREE WITH THE REC QUESTION BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT, CORBIN, THAT'S GOING TO TIE IN TO. SAP HERE. AND THAT MAY BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST. YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU FAVOR? THE CITY PURSUING A REC CENTER IN ROCKWOOD PARK BECAUSE

[01:45:01]

THAT WOULD GIVE US SOME DATA THAT MIGHT HELP. WITH THE COUNTY. IT'S GOT TO BE WORDED THE RIGHT WAY, RIGHT? D THAT COULD ALSO HURT US. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE A PROSECUTOR IN A TRIAL. YOU DON'T WANT TO ASK A QUESTION IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER OR THE ANSWER RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU REALLY, HONESTLY WANT TO KNOW AND ARE WILLING TO PIVOT BASED ON THE SURVEY RESPONSE, ASK IT. BUT IF YOU IF WE'RE I THINK RIGHT NOW WE WERE WE'RE GOING FORWARD ON THE REC CENTER.

AND WE'VE ALREADY ASKED THAT QUESTION. RIGHT. WE HAD A BOND VOTE THAT ASKED THAT QUESTION.

THAT WAS 15 YEARS AGO. WELL, SURE. BUT THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THAT. I DON'T THINK THE OUTCOME WOULD BE ALL THAT DIFFERENT NOW. WE CAN NOW AND IT IS DIFFERENT THAN THE BOND.

RIGHT? THE BOND WAS DO YOU WANT TO ISSUE A BOND AND IT GOES AGAINST YOUR TAXES. THIS IS SHOULD THE CITY PARTNER WITH SALT LAKE COUNTY FOR A SALT LAKE COUNTY OWNED AND OPERATED REC CENTER IN ROHNERT PARK? THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION. I DON'T THINK WE EVEN WANT TO GO THERE, BUT IF WE'RE COMMITTED, IF WE'RE COMMITTED TO GO THERE, CAN YOU GET BACK RESULTS THAT, SAY, 56% OF THE CITY DON'T WANT US TO GO THERE, THEN WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT? 36% OF RESPONDENTS? NOT NECESSARILY. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE SAMPLING TO MAKE SURE IT'S A MIRROR OF THE FEELINGS OF THE COMMUNITY. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, IT IS SURVEY RESULTS. WITH THAT I WOULD BE CONCERNED. THE POTENTIAL OUTCOME WOULD BE NOT THE ROAD WE'RE ON. RIGHT. NOW.

DO WE WANT TO BRING THAT SPORT WHERE THEY PULLED THE HORSES AND THE SKIJORING? WE WANT TO BUILD A VENUE. ARE YOU OKAY WITH ASKING ABOUT THE. I'VE HEARD ABOUT ONE AND TWO. I'VE HEARD ABOUT FOUR. WE'VE DISCUSSED SOME ADDITIONAL ONES. A QUESTION ABOUT. WE'VE HAD LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS IN RETREATS ABOUT PRIORITIZING ESTHETICS IN THE CITY, BUT EVERYONE HAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IDEAS OF WHAT THAT MEANS. PRIORITIZING STREETSCAPES, TREES ALONG STREETSCAPES, CITY OWNED PROPERTY, PRIVATE PROPERTY, PARKS ALONG TRAILS. DO YOU WANT TO ASK THE RESIDENTS TO DO SOMETHING LIKE LIKE A RAY? YEAH. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU WHEN WE SAY IMPROVE CITY ESTHETICS? WHAT WOULD BE MOST IMPORTANT TO YOU? WELL, MOST IMPORTANT TO ME IS CLEAN UP THE STORM DRAIN BASINS OR TREES ALONG TRAILS OR, YOU KNOW, CODE ENFORCEMENT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. GATEWAY SEVEN WOULD BE GATEWAYS. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT NUMBER THREE WAS TRYING TO GET AT. I WOULD LOVE A RANKING. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. YEAH, I LIKE THAT A LOT BETTER THAN. WE DID. YEAH I KNOW WHAT THAT ONE NEEDS TO BE A LIST OF 10 OR 12 THINGS. YEAH, YEAH, WE TELL THEM, WE SAY THESE THINGS AND THEN THEY PRIORITIZE SO THAT WE KNOW WHERE TO FOCUS OUR ESTHETIC EFFORTS. THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. DO WE ASK A QUESTION IF THEY. COME TO CITY HALL? YEAH. UNTIL THEY GET THEIR INFORMATION THEIR INFORMATION COVERED. AND SOME OF THEM, THAT'S HOW THEY GET A LOT OF THEM PHONE IN. FOR SURE. THAT'S SOME OF THEM COME IN. FAIR ENOUGH. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JUST BECAUSE I'M OLDER. I USED TO CALL AND I WOULD GET A PERSON. NOW I CALL AND I GET PUSHED. ONE FOR THIS, TWO FOR THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT SAVES US. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN KNOWING IF PEOPLE ARE GOOD WITH THAT, OR I PREFER A HUMAN. JUST AS AN ASIDE. I DIDN'T SAY I WAS OLD. I SAID I WAS OLDER. OH, SORRY SAMANTHA. AREN'T THAT EXPENSIVE. JUST NOT SURE. THAT'S RIGHT. THE TAILINGS RIGHT IS OUR PHONE SYSTEM. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WORK THIS, BUT THESE ARE BECAUSE YOU CAN HIRE VIRTUALLY.

YOU CAN HIRE VIRTUAL LIKE VIRTUAL ASSISTANTS THAT ANSWER THE PHONE, AND THEY KNOW WHERE TO TRANSFER THE PHONE, AND THEY'LL TRANSFER IT AND TELL PEOPLE WHAT'S GOING ON AND THOSE

[01:50:01]

KIND OF THINGS, AND THEY'RE NOT THAT EXPENSIVE. AND IT'S NOT AN EMPLOYEE CONTRACT. I WILL SAY, I, I WAS TRYING TO CALL SOMEONE HERE, AND I ONLY HAD THE MAIN NUMBER AND I FELT THIS IS ME AS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. I FELT LIKE I COULDN'T GET TO THE PERSON I NEEDED TO GET TO ME TO.

I DEFINITELY DEALT WITH THAT SINCE WELL AND CHAD TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT, I CALL AND I USED TO ALWAYS GET ELLEN BECAUSE I'M JUST SAYING I CALLED, I CALLED A COUPLE OF NUMBERS ON GO TO ON, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE GO TO SYSTEM AND I CAN'T GET VOICEMAIL. SO THEIR SYSTEM IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM OUR REGULAR. THAT'S OUR REGULAR SYSTEM. THAT IS OUR PHONE SYSTEM. SO. AND I'VE HAD A HARD TIME GETTING VOICEMAIL ON A COUPLE OF PEOPLE. SO I KNOW IT LOOKS LIKE UNANIMOUS IN THIS ROOM. WE WOULD LIKE A DIFFERENT PHONE SYSTEM IF YOU WERE GOING TO PULL UP SOMETHING EASIER TO GET IN CONTACT WITH THE HUMAN, JUST MAKE SURE IT WORKS. I THINK WHEN PEOPLE CALL TO THE CITY, THEY WANT TO TALK TO A HUMAN. YES, I AGREE, BECAUSE IF I'M CALLING THE CITY, I'M NOT. YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT MY BALANCE IS. I'M ANSWERING THE PHONE. YOU'RE CALLING THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT TO FIND OUT IF YOU NEED TO HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT, RIGHT? SO I HAVE TO ADMIT, IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS, I HAD I HAD A CALL AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS EXACTLY, BUT I WAS TALKING TO A PERSON I THOUGHT IT WAS. AND THEN THERE WAS A LONG PAUSE. THEN I GOT AN ANSWER. I'M LIKE, THAT'S NOT A PERSON, WAS I? SO THAT'S KIND OF SCARY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FEEDBACK ON THE SURVEY.

WE'LL KEEP YOU APPRIZED AS TO THE PROCESS AND THANK YOU. LET YOU SEE THE DRAFT OF THE QUESTIONS. THE SOONER WE GET IT OUT. I THINK THE BETTER. YEAH. COOL. SO CAN WE STICK A FORK IN YOU IF YOU CAN. SO FOR THE NEXT ITEM, WE CAN'T CLOSE THE MEETING BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING.

IT'S STILL A PUBLIC MEETING, BUT THERE IS AN OPTION. WE CAN GET FOOD AND TALK TO THE TENANT, OR WE CAN TALK TO OUR TENANT AND THEN GET FOOD AFTER. SO I WILL MAKE A VOTE FOR THE BODY. IF YOU WANT TO GET FOOD RIGHT NOW, OR DO YOU WANT TO DO IT AFTER? YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ANYMORE? OKAY, SO I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FIVE MINUTES. YEAH, I CAN'T CLOSE THE MEETING AND ADJOURN IT RIGHT NOW. SO I'M GOING TO DO A TEN MINUTE RECESS SO THAT YOU CAN GET FOOD. AND LET'S COME BACK.

BECAUSE OF GOOD BEHAVIOR. ONE MINUTE EACH. WELL GREAT. SO AT 605 FIVE OKAY 605 WE'RE GOING TO RECONVENE RIGHT HERE. YES. AT THIS TABLE. YES. OF FAMILY OVER THERE. IT DOES. SO YOU'RE. SO THAT'S FIGURED OUT. SO WE WANTED TO USE THIS TIME TO GET TO KNOW YOU A LITTLE BIT BETTER. I'M GOING TO. AROUND THE COUNTER, INTRODUCE OURSELVES. SO I'M CURRENTLY THE CHAIR FOR THE COUNCIL. I'M CHAIR. CHAIR, COUNCIL MEMBER LAM. I'VE BEEN IN THE CITY FOR 24 YEARS NOW. I LIVE JUST DOWN THE STREET, SO I HAVE A BETTER COMMUNITY THAN YOU DO. CERTAINLY, BUT I DON'T WORK HERE FULL TIME. AND I'M ON MY SECOND TERM AS A COUNCIL MEMBER. I SERVED AS AN AT LARGE FOR FOUR YEARS. I STARTED WHEN I WAS OFF FOR TWO YEARS AND NOW I'M BACK ON FOR FOUR. SO. PERFECT. SO.

YEAH. SO GLAD TO MEET YOU. AND LET'S GO THIS WAY AND THEN COME BACK AROUND. LET'S GO TO YOUR VICE CHAIR. OKAY, HALEY. GO AHEAD. I'M KAYLEEN WHITELOCK. I AM VICE CHAIR. I LIVE IN WEST JORDAN LOCH. I'VE LIVED IN WEST JORDAN FOR 40 YEARS. I'M A MOTHER OF SEVEN. I AM AN EMPTY NESTER. AFTER DECADES. I ENJOY SERVING IN THE CITY. IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU. NICE. THANKS. I'LL GO NEXT, I GUESS. MY NAME IS KENT SHELTON. ON THE CITY COUNCIL NOW FOR A YEAR. LIVED HERE IN WEST JORDAN FOR 27 YEARS. I GUESS 28 NOW. ANYWAY. VICE CHAIR, CO-CHAIR. COUNCIL.

NO SUBTITLES. YOU JUST SIT IN THE CHAIR. YEAH, I AM. I'M ON THE LEGISLATIVE POLICY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE. SO YOU'RE IN THE THICK OF IT RIGHT NOW? WELL, YEAH. YOU HAVE MY CONDOLENCES.

YEAH, WE HAVE A LOT OF GOOD STAFF HERE THAT HELP US OUT. I DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING.

IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU. HIS WIFE WORKS FOR THE CITY. YEAH. OKAY. WEST JORDAN CITY. HE WAS THE ONE

[01:55:06]

THAT I WAS GIVEN A HARD TIME THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY. YOUR WIFE IS THE CITY PROSECUTOR? YES, SHE'S A CITY CARPENTER. SHE'S A CITY EMPLOYEE AND CITY ATTORNEY. NO. SHE'S LIKE A CROSSING GUARD. OH, MORE IMPORTANT. RIGHT? YEAH, IN MANY WAYS, YES. KELVIN. OKAY, I'M DONE CHEWING. I CAN GO, I CAN GO NOW. I'M KELVIN GREEN. I'M THE ONE THAT LIVES CLOSEST TO CITY HALL BY ABOUT TWO BLOCKS. I'VE BEEN IN. IT'S FUNNY, WE ACTUALLY LIVE IN BASICALLY THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD. KIND OF CLOSEST. I LIVE OVER BY GARDNER VILLAGE. OH, OKAY. SO. WHAT ELSE? I WAS IN THE UTAH NATIONAL GUARD FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS. I STILL WORK FOR THE UTAH NATIONAL GUARD AS A STATE EMPLOYEE. AND CURRENTLY TRYING TO HELP. TRY TO HELP THE CITY ATTORNEY GET HIS BAR APPLICATION IN FRONT OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT APPROVED. SO THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU. IT'S A PLEASURE TO MEET YOU. I'M BOB BEDORE. I MY RESUME IS ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE HIM. I'VE BEEN HERE 28 YEARS. THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR ON THE COUNCIL. HE HAS, WELL, SECOND YEAR. YEAH.

STARTING MY SECOND YEAR. ALTHOUGH I DO THINK THAT I'M THE ONE THAT LIVES CLOSEST TO CITY HALL. I DO. I HAVE WALKED HERE MANY TIMES IN THE FIVE MINUTE WALK IT TAKES. AND SO THERE'S.

THAT'S ME. GOOD TO MEET YOU. NICE MEETING YOU. I PURPOSELY DID NOT TAKE A BITE IN YOUR PACE YOURSELF. ZACH. JACOB. I LIVE THE FURTHEST FROM CITY HALL. BY ABOUT TWO BLOCKS. OVER. PAMELA.

HE'S ON. SHE GETS ALMOST AS FAR AWAY AS I DO. SO USED TO SAY, WHEN I MOVED OUT THERE, WE USED TO SAY, YOU DRIVE TO THE END OF WEST JORDAN, YOU KEEP GOING ANOTHER THREE MILES TO GET TO OUR HOUSE. NOW IT'S FILLED IN. YEAH. NOW IT'S KIND OF FILLED IN. SO. FAR AWAY. I HAVE A DEGREE FROM A LAW SCHOOL, BUT I DON'T HAVE A LAW DEGREE. SO THERE YOU GO. IT'S A MASTER'S DEGREE. JUST FINISHED THAT UP. ACTUALLY, LAST YEAR WAS LAW SCHOOL KILLER. IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU. YEAH. THANK YOU. AND THEN WE HAVE SOMEBODY ON THE LINE, I THOUGHT. YEAH. I'M HERE. IT'S A BUSY SEASON RIGHT NOW. I'VE BEEN AT THE SUPER BOWL, AND NOW I'M AT ANOTHER FILM FESTIVAL. I'M PAMELA. I LIVE RIGHT NEXT TO ZACH. AND I AM IN MY LAST YEAR ON CITY COUNCIL FOR THIS TERM.

AND PRIOR TO THAT, I WAS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND A FEW COMMITTEES. AND LET'S SEE HERE.

I HAVE A COUPLE OF DEGREES IN FILM AND PHOTOGRAPHY AND ALL OF THAT JAZZ AND YEAH, MY WHOLE WORLD IS CINEMA, BROADCAST AND FILMMAKING. OH, IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOUR VOICE. WELL, MY NAME IS RYAN HOLTON. I'VE LIVED IN UTAH NOW FOR 17 YEARS. I CAME FOR LAW SCHOOL IN 2007. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN ALASKA. MY DAD WAS BORN AND RAISED IN ALASKA. HIS DAD WAS BORN AND RAISED IN ALASKA, AND MUCH TO THE CHAGRIN OF MY PARENTS. UTAH IS VERY FIRMLY HOME FOR ME NOW.

MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE WOMAN NEXT TO ME. THIS IS MY WIFE, LEXI GARRISON. WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER 15 YEARS NOW. SHE'S REALLY. SHE'S A HUGE PART OF WHY I'M HERE. BOTH SITTING BEFORE YOU IS THE POSSIBILITY TO BECOME A JUDGE. BUT ALSO WHAT MAKES UTAH HOME. SO I'M REALLY. I LOVE BEING HERE. THIS PLACE IS UTAH HAS REALLY JUST BECOME A WONDERFUL PLACE THAT I MISS NOW WHEN I'M GONE. IT WAS SORT OF WILD WHEN I WAS IN LAW SCHOOL. IT WAS ALWAYS KIND OF THIS IN-BETWEEN RUSH TO GET HOME TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GET BACK TO ALASKA. THE PLAN WHEN I WAS ORIGINALLY IN LAW SCHOOL WAS TO TAKE THE BAR BACK IN ALASKA AND GO HOME AND PRACTICE LAW THERE, AND IN 2009, IT KIND OF ALL WENT AWRY. BUT UTAH'S IS VERY FIRMLY HOME FOR ME. AND I'M I'M REALLY I APPRECIATE THIS KIND OF OPPORTUNITY TO NOW CALL WEST JORDAN HOME. IT'S REALLY THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ME AND I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. AND IT'S A PLEASURE TO MEET ALL OF YOU. I'M I'M GLAD IT GETS TO BE IN THIS SORT OF SETTING, THIS PROCESS. I'M SURE OF A LOT OF

[02:00:03]

THE FOLKS THAT HAVE PARTICIPATED HAVE TOLD YOU IS EXTREMELY FORMAL, EXTREMELY TEDIOUS. RIGHT UP UNTIL MEETING MAYOR BURTON. I APPRECIATE. THE YES, THAT WAS THE LACK OF FORMALITY. I GREW UP IN NORTH POLE, ALASKA, AND I CALL THAT HOME. YES, I LOVE IT. SO, YEAH, MY BEST. ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS GREW UP IN FOX, WHICH IS, AS YOU GET TO SAY, IT'S OUTSIDE OF FAIRBANKS, ON THE HIGHWAY TO CHENA HOT SPRINGS. BUT YEAH. NO, I'VE BEEN THROUGH NORTH POLE. I ACTUALLY DID THE NORTH POLE. I DID THE NORTH POLE MARATHON WHEN I WAS IN JUNIOR HIGH THAT THEY RAN FROM THE ALONG THE TANANA RIVER NORTH. I REMEMBER THAT. YEAH. THAT'S WILD. WHAT A SMALL WORLD.

BUT IT'S FUNNY, YOU RUN INTO THERE'S A LOT OF ALASKA TRANSPLANTS IN UTAH. THERE'S A LOT LIKE PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO FIGURE IT OUT. I WENT TO UNDERGRAD IN MONTANA. I SPENT FOUR YEARS THERE. TONS OF ALASKANS THAT CAME DOWN. AND THERE'S, LIKE, A LITTLE PIPELINE THAT'S RUNNING LIKE ALASKA, MONTANA, UTAH. AND IT'S REALLY IT'S BEEN FUN. THE CURRENT ASAC AT DEA IS FROM KODIAK, ALASKA, WHICH IS EAST OF NOME IN SORT OF DEEP NORTHEAST NORTHWEST ALASKA.

AND SO IT'S JUST SORT OF WILD TO RUN INTO FOLKS FROM ALASKA AND FROM HOME HERE. SO I APPRECIATE BEING HERE. IT'S REALLY FUN TO GET TO KNOW ALL OF YOU. SO FIRE AWAY. AS AS MAYOR BURTON ACTUALLY TOLD ME. SO WHERE WHERE ARE YOU FROM? I'M ORIGINALLY FROM MONTANA. BUT MY MOM MOVED DOWN HERE FOR A JOB WITH FLYING J. AND SO MY BROTHER AND I ENDED UP GROWING UP IN DAVIS COUNTY.

SO JUST UP NORTH. OH, YOUR FORMATIVE YEARS? IN MY FORMATIVE YEARS, WHERE DAVIS DARK I AM.

I'M ALSO FORMERLY A DS EVEN. WOW. MY SENIOR YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL, WE BEAT THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP. OH, NO. SO THAT'S THE ONLY NEXUS I HAVE TO DAVIS AT ALL. IT WAS A GREAT. IT WAS A GREAT PLACE TO GROW UP IN 1982. SO IT WAS A GREAT PLACE TO GROW UP. I'M VERY THANKFUL. YEAH.

TELL ME WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT WEST JORDAN. WELL, I'VE ACTUALLY I'VE WAS HERE QUITE A BIT WHEN I WAS IN PRIVATE PRACTICE. I ACTUALLY APPEARED IN FRONT OF JUDGE KOONTZ QUITE A FEW TIMES. I'VE HAD CASES HERE. I'VE HAD TRIALS HERE. OH, NO NO NO, NO. FROM FROM FROM THE BENCH. KOONS IS A LOT OF THINGS. FORMAL. STRICT. HE WAS. HE WAS NEVER FROM THE BENCH. THAT WAS THAT WAS NEVER THE PERSONA IN HIS COURT. I CAN, BUT I CAN SAY IT'S REALLY BEEN KIND OF A WILD SHIFT NOW, MEETING HIM AS A AS A COLLEAGUE. HE IS AN INCREDIBLY KIND AND THOUGHTFUL PERSON. IT WAS IT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO IN TALKING WITH HIM AND MEETING WITH HIM, HOW POSSESSIVE HE IS ABOUT THE IDEA OF SORT OF PASSING THE TORCH, PASSING THIS COURT THAT'S BEEN REALLY HIS FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS. I MEAN, YOU'VE ONLY HAD TWO JUSTICE COURT JUDGES EVER. I MEAN, THIS THIS COURT IS VERY MUCH THE PRODUCT OF A VERY FEW INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE SHAPED IT. AND I WAS QUITE SURPRISED AS TO HOW NOT POSSESSIVE HE WAS OVER THE IDEA OF PASSING IT ON AND SAYING, OH, YOU KNOW, WE'LL DO IT LIKE THIS, BUT LET ME KNOW HOW YOU WANT ME TO START DOING IT BEFORE YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU TRANSITION AND YOU KNOW, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL DO ANYTHING THE WAY YOU THINK YOU YOU WANT ME TO HAVE IT DONE. WHICH FOR SOMEBODY THAT SPENT THE LAST 35 YEARS ORGANIZING THEIR COURT TO BE EXACTLY THE WAY THEY WANT IT, I FOUND THAT WILDLY IMPRESSIVE, PARTICULARLY FROM A JUDGE. HE'S A GOOD MAN. YEAH. NO, IT'S REALLY. I'M. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING PART OF THIS. IT'S REALLY. IT'S REALLY GREAT. SO THAT'S MY QUESTION. THEN WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE A JUDGE? SURE. SO DOES EVERY LAWYER WANT TO BE A JUDGE? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. NOPE. NO, SOME SOME OF THEM CAN'T HANDLE. THERE'S. I'VE ENJOYED MY TIME AS AN ADVOCATE. I'VE BEEN A DEFENSE ATTORNEY.

I'VE BEEN A PROSECUTOR. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE WORKED FOR A WHILE. IT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I SWITCHED FROM. I MEAN, I WAS A PARTNER WITH A WITH A FIRM DOWN ACTUALLY, HERE IN SOUTH JORDAN FOR YEARS. AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I SWITCHED TO PROSECUTION IS I WANTED TO DELIBERATELY EXPOSE MYSELF TO WORK IN THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR THE EVENTUAL PLAN OF BECOMING A JUDGE, BECAUSE I WANTED TO HAVE SEEN AND DONE BOTH SIDES. I WANTED TO SAT WITH DEFENDANTS. I WANTED TO SAT WITH VICTIMS. I WANTED TO HAVE WORKED WITH POLICE OFFICERS BECAUSE I THINK AS A JUDGE, YOU HAVE YOU HAVE OPPORTUNITIES THAT YOU DON'T AS

[02:05:05]

AN ADVOCATE. YOU HAVE THESE SORT OF BOXES THAT YOU'RE STUCK IN AS AN ADVOCATE. THAT BEING A JUDGE GIVES YOU A LOT MORE, A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO SEEK CHANGE AND SEEK JUSTICE IN WAYS, PARTICULARLY IN JUSTICE COURT, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE QUITE THE SAME. MACHINE OF BUREAUCRACY THAT THAT ONCE YOU ONCE YOU HIT DISTRICT COURT, THERE'S THIS GIANT SORT OF MOMENTUM OF BUREAUCRACY THAT THAT GOVERNS DISTRICT COURT THAT KIND OF PREVENTS YOU FROM BEING CREATIVE, FROM SEEKING OPPORTUNITIES. TO SORT OF ENGAGE IN PROACTIVE JUSTICE, TO SORT OF HOPE THAT SOMEBODY SHOWS UP, SHOWS UP IN FRONT OF YOU ONCE EVER. AND THAT'S IT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOUR REAL GOAL IS. AND I THINK AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT IS GOING TO BE HUGELY SATISFYING TO ME PERSONALLY, BUT ALSO PROFESSIONALLY. SO IT'S SOMETHING I WANT TO DO AND IT'S SOMETHING I'VE WORKED FOR QUITE A WHILE, SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. KIND OF ANSWERED MY QUESTION. MY QUESTION IS GOING TO BE WHAT PART OF PRACTICING WHAT YOUR LAW PRACTICE BEEN LIKE THAT YOU KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THAT. WHAT PART OF THAT DID YOU DID YOU LIKE I ASSUME I MEAN, HAVING BEEN A PROSECUTOR AND A DEFENSE ATTORNEY HAVE PROBABLY A GOOD AMOUNT OF TRIAL EXPERIENCE.

YEAH. MAYBE AN ANECDOTE. WHAT'S BEEN A FUN OR A FUN STORY OR A TIME THAT YOU WERE IN COURT WHEN A JUDGE DID OR SAID SOMETHING THAT WAS A MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? SURE.

I'VE GOT MANY, REALLY, TO BE HONEST. I'LL HAVE TO. I'LL BE. YOU CAN EVEN PICK ON JUDGE, CUZ I KNOW I'VE I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE A I MEAN, I THINK I STOPPED I STOPPED COUNTING JURY TRIALS ONCE. I SORT OF HIT, YOU KNOW, ONCE HE HIT SORT OF 50, 60, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU REALLY STOPPED KEEPING TRACK OF THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I'LL GIVE YOU TWO. SO WHEN I WAS A DEFENSE ATTORNEY. I HAD A DEFENDANT THAT WAS FACING SOME SERIOUS SEXUAL ABUSE CHARGES, AND HE WAS HERE ON A BASKETBALL SCHOLARSHIP, AND WE ENDED UP HAVING A JURY TRIAL. AND WE HAD A LOT OF, A LOT OF HARD FOUGHT MOTIONS OVER CERTAIN EVIDENCE THAT WAS GOING TO COME IN BECAUSE THERE WAS A HUGE AMOUNT OF RACISM THAT WAS UNDERLYING THAT CASE. SOME PRETTY NAKED RACISM THAT WAS GOING ON IN THAT CASE. AND WE ENDED UP GETTING A NOT GUILTY VERDICT AFTER A SEVEN DAY, 7 OR 8 DAYS WENT INTO THE SECOND WEEK IN FRONT OF JUDGE ANNE BOYDEN. AND I REMEMBER TWO PARTS OF THAT CLEARLY WAS HOW DELICATELY SHE HAD TO RULE ON QUESTIONS OF THE ATTORNEYS IN THE ROOM. SO FOR 12, EVIDENCE IS WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH SOME VERY SORT OF DELICATE EVIDENCE INVOLVING THE PAST HISTORY OF A DEFENDANT, PAST HISTORY OF VICTIMS THAT WERE INVOLVED. AND I JUST REMEMBER HOW NUANCED AND DELICATE OF AN OPINION AND SORT OF RULING THAT SHE MADE TO ENSURE THAT THAT TRIAL PROCEEDED FAIRLY, BOTH FOR THE FOLKS THAT WERE TESTIFYING, THE VICTIMS THAT WERE PRESENT, AS WELL AS THE DEFENDANT. AND SECOND, I REMEMBER WHEN THEY ANNOUNCED THAT NOT GUILTY VERDICT, I REMEMBER HIM FAINTING ON THE TABLE NEXT TO ME AND GRABBING THE I REMEMBER GRABBING THE BACK OF HIS COLLAR BECAUSE HE WAS GOING DOWN AT THE TABLE IN FRONT OF US. AND I JUST REMEMBER HIM, JUST LIKE HIS WHOLE BODY WENT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH HIM, AND HE JUST ABOUT HIT THE FRONT OF THE DESK IN FRONT OF US. AND I JUST REMEMBER GRABBING, GRABBING THE BACK OF HIS SHIRT TO KEEP HIM FROM HITTING HIS OWN HEAD. AND I JUST. YEAH, THAT'S I MEAN, THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO IN THAT CASE, WAS PROBABLY 13 PLUS YEARS AGO, AND I STILL REMEMBER HIS NAME. I STILL REMEMBER THAT DAY THAT HE COLLAPSED, AND I STILL REMEMBER HIS DAD AND HIM TAKING MY WIFE AND I TO LUNCH AFTERWARDS, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE COUPLE WEEKS LATER AND I STILL HAVE A CARD THAT HE WROTE ME AND JUST I REMEMBER HOW JUST I MEAN, THAT WAS A DIFFICULT THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF THINGS IN THAT TRIAL THAT WERE VERY DIFFICULT. I MEAN, SOME VERY DELICATE THINGS TO HAVE COME OUT OF THE COURT, SOME REALLY SORT OF UNCOMFORTABLE THINGS TO FACE IN A TRIAL LIKE THAT. WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH SEX ABUSE CHARGES, YOU'RE DEALING WITH RACISM. AND.

YEAH, NO, THAT'S THAT'S A CASE I'LL REMEMBER FOR A LONG TIME AS A PROSECUTOR. I THINK I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS IN MY IN ONE OF MY NOMINATING COMMISSION INTERVIEWS. I HAD TWO TRIALS

[02:10:01]

THAT WERE BACK TO BACK. I GUESS I WON'T NAME JUDGES BECAUSE I WANT TO NAME AND SHAME TOO MUCH, BUT I HAD TWO. TWO TRIALS THAT WERE BACK TO BACK. THEY WERE BOTH A WEEK LONG. I HAD NO TIME IN BETWEEN. AND I THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WAY THOSE TWO JUDGES RAN THEIR COURTROOM WAS ABSOLUTELY MIND BOGGLING. THAT FIRST COURT WAS RUN ABSOLUTELY LIKE CLOCKWORK. IT WAS THAT JUDGE HAD ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL CONTROL OVER THAT TRIAL. YOU KNOW, ONE WORD. OBJECTIONS. NO SPEAKING OBJECTIONS. WE WERE THE DEFENSE COUNSEL. AND I WERE ABSOLUTELY LIKE IN OUR LANE AND HELD IN OUR LANE. AND THAT THAT CASE WAS INCREDIBLY DELICATE. BUT IT WAS WELL RUN AND HAS SURVIVED A DOZEN DIFFERENT APPEALS SINCE THEN. AND THEN THE NEXT WEEK, WE HAD THE EXACT OPPOSITE. AND DEFENSE COUNSEL AND I RAN ABSOLUTELY ROUGHSHOD OVER THAT JUDGE, LIKE HE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER US WHATSOEVER. WE GOT I MEAN, SPEAKING OF OBJECTIONS, I WAS, YOU KNOW, WE WERE INTERRUPTING EACH OTHER. WE WERE, YOU KNOW, OBJECTING DURING, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER PERSON. SO IT WAS IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE DIFFERENT. AND IT JUST IT WAS A REMINDER OF, YOU KNOW, THE RULES ARE THE SAME, THE PROCEDURES ARE THE SAME. BUT THE MANNER IN WHICH A JUDGE RUNS THEIR COURTROOM CAN HAVE SUCH A HUGE IMPACT ON A CASE LIKE THAT.

AND THAT ONE WAS JUST AN ABSOLUTE MESS. IT WAS JUST A JUNK SHOW, JUST THE WHOLE THING, AND IT JUST COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE DIFFERENT. SO THAT WAS THAT WAS A REAL REMINDER OF KIND OF HOW MUCH IMPACT A JUDGE CAN HAVE ON, ON THE WAY THOSE TRIALS UNFOLD. SO ON BEHALF OF OUR CITY PROSECUTORS. BUT YEAH, ON THAT SPECTRUM, WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU'LL FIND? I'M GOING TO BE READY. I'M GOING TO IT'S I, I BELIEVE IN PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS BEING FAR MORE IN JUST ABSOLUTELY MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY KIND OF OUTCOME. IF YOU DON'T HAVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OVER YOUR COURTROOM, YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE. YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS. AND AT THAT POINT, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR OUTCOME IS, YOU'VE ALREADY LOST IT. IT'S NO.

THE JUSTICE IS LOST IN THE PROCESS. LONG BEFORE YOU EVER HIT THE OUTCOME. SO IT COULD BE UNCOMFORTABLE. I'VE SPENT THE LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS IN FEDERAL COURT WITH FEDERAL JUDGES THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOD AND THE FEDERAL JUDGES. GOD DOESN'T THINK THEY'RE A FEDERAL JUDGE. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S THE KIND OF RIGIDITY I'VE BEEN SORT OF EXPOSED TO THE LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS. AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOING TO BE ACCOUNTING FOR FOLKS THAT ARE COMING IN THAT ARE PRO SE, AND YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T TREAT SOMEBODY THAT'S REPRESENTING THEMSELVES THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH YOU TREAT SOMEBODY WHO'S IN A, YOU KNOW, BAR, YOU KNOW, A BARRED ATTORNEY. BUT IT'S I'M PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE A PRETTY RIGID COURTROOM. MORE EXPOSED TO. SO IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW FOLKS REACT TO THAT. I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU CAN COMMIT TO 35 YEARS. SEES 70. I'D HAVE A YEAR. I'D HAVE A YEAR TO SPARE, I THINK IS AN ENFORCEABLE RETIREMENT. 75. RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I THINK ISN'T THAT I THINK AOC MAKES I THINK THE I THINK THE JUDICIAL FORCED RETIREMENT. SO BE TIGHT. BE TIGHT. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN BE CLOSE. IT DEPENDS IF I TAKE A SABBATICAL IN THERE OR NOT. SO WHAT DO YOU PERCEIVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHIEF VALENTINE AND OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, TO BE SURE. SO I THINK THERE'S YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO RELATIONSHIPS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP THAT PRESERVES THE SEPARATION OF POWERS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD CONFLICTS EVERY DAY OF YOUR COURT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, BEING AND JUSTICE COURT GIVES YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE COLLABORATIVE WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, THAT DISTRICT COURT REALLY DOESN'T. AND SO BEING A RESOURCE FOR TRAINING OFFICERS, FOR BEING PARTICIPATING IN THAT COMMUNITY, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY FIT SIDE BY SIDE SO LONG AS EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT THEIR PROFESSIONAL, PROFESSIONAL ROLE IS AND WHERE THOSE LINES NEED TO BE DRAWN TO PRESERVE KIND OF THAT SEPARATION OF POWERS. BUT I THINK THAT I THINK THAT'S A HUGELY BENEFICIAL RELATIONSHIP, THAT YOU CAN'T JUST STAND BACK FROM AND SAY, WELL, I'M THE COURT, YOU'RE THE YOUR LAW ENFORCEMENT. WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, THIS LINE HAS TO BE COMPLETE AND UNEQUIVOCAL, AND WE CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN ONE ANOTHER'S WORLDS BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THAT'S NOT HOW YOU ACHIEVE LONG TERM SUCCESS. SO I THINK THAT'S THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY THAT I'M LOOKING

[02:15:02]

FORWARD TO BECAUSE I'VE WORKED WITH LOTS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. MY ENTIRE PROSECUTORIAL CAREER HAS BEEN AS AN EMBEDDED PROSECUTOR. SO I'VE BEEN EMBEDDED WITH MY AGENTS AND MY ENTIRE PROSECUTORIAL CAREER. SO I'VE WORKED WITH COPS FROM THE INVESTIGATION STANDPOINT. I TEACH AT POST. IT'S SOMETHING I LOVE TO DO, AND I THINK IT'S A BENEFIT THAT I CAN PROVIDE TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THE BETTER LAW ENFORCEMENT, HONESTLY, THE EASIER MY JOB IS GOING TO BE. IF I WALK IN WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT HAVE PERFECT WARRANTS AND PERFECT PC AND PERFECT CASES AND CHAIN OF CUSTODY, I'M GOING TO MAKE MY OWN LIFE A LOT EASIER. SO. WELL, CONGRATULATIONS. YEAH, PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE AN EASIER LIFE. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO. WELL, I WANT TO JUST TELL YOU THERE WAS A DEBATE AT THIS TABLE AS TO WHETHER WE SHOULD EVEN KEEP THE COURT OPEN, SURE THAT THE RETIREMENT OF JUDGE COUNTS. AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS WE DECIDED TO KEEP IT OPEN WAS BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU JUST ANSWERED, THAT RELATIONSHIP. RIGHT? BEING RIGHT IN THE SAME BUILDING. SURE. THE COLLABORATION THAT CAN HAPPEN, OF COURSE, KEEPING THE SEPARATION AS YOU MENTIONED, BUT THE COLLABORATION THAT CAN HAPPEN IS SO IMPORTANT AND SERVING OUR RESIDENTS. AND WE'RE GRATEFUL TO HAVE YOU. THANK YOU. I MEAN, THAT'S I'M GLAD THAT I'M PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY GLAD THAT THAT'S THAT'S THE DECISION THAT YOU MADE BECAUSE.

A CITIZENS EXPOSURE TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, YOU SORT OF HOPE THAT IT BEGINS AND ENDS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, BECAUSE IF THEY NEVER REACH THE COURT, THEN WE'VE DONE SOMETHING RIGHT AT THE START. AND I THINK PARTICIPATING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT SO THAT I MEAN, I THINK CHIEF VALENTINE AND I JOKED ABOUT THIS, THAT THE END GAME IS TO PUT OURSELVES OUT OF A JOB, WHETHER WE EVER REACH THAT IN WHATEVER FANTASYLAND WE'RE AIMING FOR. THAT'S THE GOAL. WE HOPE TO PUT OURSELVES OUT OF A JOB IF WE CAN. SO MY ONE OF MY QUESTIONS. ARE YOU GOING TO LOOK AT HAVING A JUDGE PRO TEM PROGRAM FOR THE SMALL CLAIMS? SO FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND RIGHT NOW, IS THAT MOST OF THE SMALL CLAIMS IS GOING THROUGH THE COURTS. THEY HAVE LIKE AN ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION THING THAT PEOPLE SUBMIT THEMSELVES FOR THE COURTS THAT'S HANDLED SEPARATELY AND THEN CONTESTED. SMALL CLAIMS END UP IN FRONT OF THE JUSTICE COURT HERE, AND THEN SUPPORTERS AND OSCS THAT COME OUT OF SMALL CLAIMS. AS FAR AS A PRO TEM JUDGE GOES, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE MORE OF A QUESTION OF HOW, I GUESS, HOW BUSY OR HOW HOW FULL THE CALENDAR BECOMES, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO ADD I DON'T WANT TO ADD A COST TO THE CITY OF HAVING AN ADDITIONAL JUDGE ON TOP OF MYSELF. IF I CAN HANDLE THE CALENDAR, I CAN HANDLE THE SMALL CLAIMS CASES THAT ARE COMING IN. IF I CAN HANDLE THAT ENTIRETY OF THE CALENDAR CALENDAR, I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO FOIST AN EXTRA COST ONTO THE CITY OF ADDING A PRO TEM. THEY COST THAT BECAUSE MOST PRO TEM ARE VOLUNTEERED BY ATTORNEYS, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE VOLUNTEER, NOT. VOLUNTEER. OKAY, WELL, IF THEY'RE VOLUNTEER WHAT I WOULD WHAT I WOULD CHALLENGE YOU TO DO IS I THINK YOUR I THINK YOUR CASELOAD IS HEAVY ENOUGH. AND WITH SOME OF THE TALK OF THE DIRECTION OF THE CITY, I THINK YOUR CASELOAD IS GOING TO BE BIG ENOUGH THAT I WOULD CHALLENGE YOU TO, I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THAT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT A LOT OF TIMES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO LEARN. HOW TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, YOU KNOW, TO BE A JUDGE AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY CAN GET SOME OF THAT EXPERIENCE AND THEY CAN LEARN. I WILL TELL YOU THAT I'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT I KNOW WHO WENT ON TO BE DISTRICT COURT JUDGES. AND I THINK IF YOU ASKED FOR ONE OR THE. WOULD SAY HE WISHES HE NEVER WAS A DISTRICT COURT JUDGE. YEAH. HIS I DON'T THINK THAT HIS LIFE WAS AS QUITE AS PROFESSIONALLY FULFILLING AS HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, GET PEOPLE INVOLVED IN OUR COMMUNITY WITH COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT, THEY CAN BE THEY

[02:20:02]

CAN SERVE IN, IN THE COURT, LEARN SOME OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS. I THINK WE BECOME A BETTER COMMUNITY. AND SO I WOULD JUST CHALLENGE YOU TO LOOK AT THAT KIND OF PROGRAM. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST DON'T STEP INTO BECOMING A JUDGE BLIND AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, AND THEY GET A CHANCE. SO I JUST TELL YOU TO, TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. NO, I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT BEING SORT OF A STEP ALONG THE WAY TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF JUDGES. YOU'RE EXPOSING ATTORNEYS TO WHAT DISPUTE RESOLUTION LOOKS LIKE FROM A COMMUNITY LEVEL, WHERE IT'S ON THE GROUND. THAT SORT OF STREET LEVEL, YOU KNOW, WHERE RATHER THAN BEING SORT OF FAR AWAY AND ABOVE KIND OF THAT IMPACT. AND THEN I WOULD JUST MY LAST COMMENT IS WE'VE GOT A GREAT STAFF OVER THERE. YES YOU DO. IT'S KIND OF FUNNY. I IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY, OUR CONSTABLE OR THE GUYS OVER THERE THAT ARE RUNNING THE COURT SECURITY FOR YOU, IT'S FUNNY, I STARTED WORKING WITH THE ONE GUY AS A DEPUTY CONSTABLE AND. 1993, 1994, HE'S STILL DOING IT. I GAVE THAT UP A WHILE, A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY. BUT HE'S ONE OF THE BEST. THAT'S GREAT. SO IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE. I'VE ACTUALLY SPENT MUCH OF THE DAY FRIDAY WITH JUDGE, TOOK ME AROUND AND INTRODUCED ME TO THE COURT STAFF. ALL THE FOLKS THAT BE WORKING WITH ME. I ALSO GOT TO SAY, I'M ACTUALLY NOT SURE WHO WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS QUITE A MOVE TO PUT CAROLYN ON THE AS THE REPRESENTATIVE ON THE NOMINATING COMMISSION. THAT WAS THAT WAS REALLY I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD SHOW OF KNOWLEDGE OF WHO THE SORT OF THE POWER BEHIND THE THRONE REALLY IS BECAUSE WE AS ATTORNEYS KNOW THOSE, THOSE SENIOR CLERKS, THAT'S THAT'S WHO REALLY IS GOING TO KNOW WHO'S GOING TO WORK OR NOT WORK. SO WHEN I WALKED INTO THAT NOMINATING COMMISSION INTERVIEW AND I SAW ON THERE THAT THE SENIOR JUDICIAL ASSISTANT WAS GOING TO BE ON THE NOMINEE COMMISSION, I THOUGHT THAT WAS QUITE A MOVE FROM WEST JORDAN TO PUT HER FOURTH. I THINK IT WAS REALLY A NICE IDEA. YEAH. SO WHAT DO YOU SEE AS YOU'VE BEEN RESEARCHING THIS? WHAT DO YOU SEE AS A CHALLENGE OR OBSTACLE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE COMING IN? AND THEN AS A SECOND QUESTION, WHAT DO YOU SEE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE AND THE RESIDENTS OF WEST JORDAN HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST 35 YEARS. SO I THINK CHALLENGE WISE, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO PUT ASIDE THAT ADVOCACY.

PART OF MY SORT OF PROFESSIONAL CAREER IS BUILT IN BECAUSE I'VE BEEN AN ADVOCATE IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. AND I THINK PUTTING ASIDE THAT IS GOING TO BE TRICKY THAT I NEED TO I HAVE TO TAKE THE ARGUMENTS AND TAKE THE CASES AS PRESENTED TO ME AND MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T LET MY BRAIN WANDER INTO DEFENSE ATTORNEY OR LET MY BRAIN WANDER INTO PROSECUTOR THAT I HAVE TO. I HAVE TO TRUST THE FOLKS IN FRONT OF ME. AND YES, I CAN DRAG THEM ALONG.

MAYBE IF THEY NEED DRAGGING IN THE DIRECTION THAT THEY NEED TO BE DRAGGED. BUT I THINK THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO BE THE TRICKIEST PART, IS GOING TO BE TURNING OFF THAT THAT PART OF MY BRAIN AND ACTUALLY TALKING WITH JUDGE, I ACTUALLY ASKED HIM THAT QUESTION AND I WAS LIKE, DO YOU EVER DO YOU EVER CATCH YOURSELF JUST SCREAMING INSIDE YOUR HEAD ABOUT SOME ARGUMENT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE MADE OR THAT YOU WOULD HAVE MADE? YEAH, HE'S HE'S LIKE, OH MAN, YOU HAVE YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

HE'S LIKE, SOMETIMES I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, GRIPPING THE UNDERSIDE OF THE BENCH BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S MAKING AN ARGUMENT AND YOU'RE JUST LOOKING OVER LIKE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO OBJECT, REALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, SIT THERE. NOTHING. OKAY. SO I THINK, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE TRICKY.

AS FAR AS WHAT I BRING, BRING AS A JUDGE THAT THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE SEEN BEFORE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE HAD THE BENEFIT OF DOING IS HAVING BEEN A DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND PARTICULARLY BEING A PROSECUTOR, I RAN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S HUMAN TRAFFICKING UNIT FOR QUITE A TIME, AND BEING EXPOSED TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE, I GUESS, KIND OF THESE THESE DUAL ROLE, DUAL ROLE

[02:25:02]

INDIVIDUALS. BECAUSE I HATE TO SAY DEFENDANTS ARE I HATE TO SAY VICTIMS BECAUSE I FOUND SO MANY FOLKS, BOTH AS A DEFENSE ATTORNEY AS WELL AS WHEN I WAS A PROSECUTOR IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

SO MANY OF MY SO MANY OF MY VICTIMS, THEY HAD LIVES THAT WERE SORT OF SCATTERED THROUGH THE JUSTICE COURTS ACROSS THE STATE. THEY HAD PROSTITUTION CHARGES, SOLICITATION CHARGES, SUBSTANCE ABUSE, THEFT, CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS IT WAS ALWAYS INTERESTING FOR ME TO SEE, PARTICULARLY IN THAT CONTEXT OF THESE FOLKS THAT HAVE BOTH BEEN VICTIM AND DEFENDANT AND HOW THEY WERE TREATED BY THE JUSTICE SYSTEM LIKE EARLY ON IN THEIR LIVES THAT THEN SET THEM UP OR SET THEM ON THESE PATHS, BOTH SORT OF DIRECTING THEM DOWN ROADS OF BECOMING PERPETRATORS, BECOMING VICTIMS, BECOMING VULNERABLE INDIVIDUALS THAT MUCH MORE HEINOUS. FOLKS DELIBERATELY PREY ON. THEY LOOK FOR, YOU KNOW, HUMAN TRAFFICKERS LOOK FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN ABUSED OR NEGLECTED AS CHILDREN. THEY LOOK FOR FOLKS THAT ARE STRUGGLING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS. THEY LOOK FOR FOLKS THAT HAVE WARRANTS OUTSTANDING THAT THEY CAN SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'LL PAY YOUR PAY YOUR BAIL OFF. AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU NEED A PLACE TO STAY, YOU CAN COME STAY WITH ME, STAY WITH ME. THEY THEY LOOK FOR FOLKS THAT HAVE STRUGGLED IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, THAT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AND SORT OF HAVE THIS TAINTED HISTORY BECAUSE THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME UP ALL THE TIME IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS. IT WAS SAFER TO RAPE A PROSTITUTE. AND IT WAS THIS HORRIBLE REALITY WHEN WE WOULD DEAL WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING, THAT THEY WOULD LOOK FOR FOLKS THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T BELIEVE, THEY WOULD LOOK FOR FOLKS THAT HAD STRUGGLED THEIR LIVES, THAT HAD THESE LONG CRIMINAL HISTORIES BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR FOLKS THAT IF THEY IF THAT PERSON TOOK THE STAND, THAT THEIR WHOLE CRIMINAL HISTORY WOULD GET PARADED AND SAY, DON'T BELIEVE THAT PERSON BECAUSE OF LOOK AT ALL THIS. AND I THINK BEING EXPOSED TO THAT AND SORT OF SEEING WHAT THAT EARLY EXPOSURE TO THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, TO JUSTICE COURT. WHAT THAT KIND OF TRACK CAN PUT PEOPLE ON IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS GOING TO IS GOING TO WEIGH HEAVY, BUT I THINK IN THE RIGHT WAY, BECAUSE I THINK IT IT PUTS INTO CONTEXT HOW SERIOUS JUSTICE COURT IS, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN BE DISMISSIVE OF JUSTICE COURT AS NOTHING BUT MISDEMEANORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND ONCE YOU'VE SEEN WHAT CRIMINAL HISTORY, FELONY OR OTHERWISE DOES TO FOLKS, I THINK IT PUTS INTO CONTEXT JUST HOW SERIOUS ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO BE, WHETHER IT'S JUSTICE COURT, DISTRICT COURT, FELONY, MISDEMEANOR, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO WEIGH HEAVILY ON MY MIND AS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT WHEN I'M DEALING WITH FOLKS. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE ITS OWN CHALLENGE TO SORT OF KEEP AN EYE ON THAT AS I WORK THROUGH CASES.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO, TO SORT OF PARTICIPATING IN AS A JUDGE. I THINK I'VE WORKED ON THERE FOR A WHILE. I WAS WORKING ON PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENTS FOR TAYLORSVILLE FOR A LONG TIME, HELPING BUILD THAT, PUTTING THE PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENTS. THE PROSECUTION OVER THERE. WHAT I NOTICED IS HOW MANY, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS. AND A LOT OF TIMES HOW MANY TIMES THE REPEAT OFFENDER ISN'T GIVEN ANY BOUNDARIES, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN IS IT'S WELL, THEY DIDN'T APPEAR. THEY KEEP YOU KNOW, AND IT'S THIS REVOLVING DOOR BECAUSE THERE'S NOT APPROPRIATE INTERVENTION ACCOUNTABILITY. YEAH. YEAH. THE INTERVENTION HAS GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY. YES. AND SO I'M WHAT I'M HOPING THAT YOU WILL DO IS IF WE LOOK SO THAT WE CAN SAY IF WE I THINK IF WE HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. AND THEY'RE HELD ACCOUNTABLE EARLY.

YES. THEY'RE NOT AS LIKELY TO REPEAT SOME OF THE NONSENSE AS WHAT I, WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN WITH, WITH PEOPLE. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK THEM UP AND EXCHANGE AND YOU LOOK AT THEY, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THEY'RE ON THEIR 15TH, 20TH, 30TH CASE IN FRONT OF A, YOU KNOW, 20 JUSTICE COURTS IN THE VALLEY. AND YOU JUST SHAKE YOUR HEAD AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, YEAH, THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME BETTER ACCOUNTABILITY THERE. SO I, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH GREAT WAYS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, I'M ALL FOR THAT. WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING I'M

[02:30:05]

PLANNING ON DOING. I MEAN THAT'S YOU HAVE TO IT HAS TO BE IT ALSO, LIKE YOU SAID, IT HAS TO BE EARLY AND IT HAS TO IT HONESTLY HAS TO BE IMMEDIATE. LIKE THE LONGER YOU DRAG THAT ON THE, THE MORE PEOPLE DISASSOCIATE THAT ACCOUNTABILITY WITH THE ACTUAL ACT FOR WHICH THEY'RE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE. SO ALL RIGHT, LET ME BE THE TIMEKEEPER. WE GOTTA HEAD INTO OUR CITY COUNCIL MEETING. BUT THANK YOU FOR LETTING US TALK TO YOU. OF COURSE. MY PLEASURE. I'M SURE YOU'RE AN OPEN BOOK. SO EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU WANT MORE TIME, I'M SURE YOU'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR US TO TALK TO. AND. YEAH, NO, I'M HAPPY TO STAY. YEAH, I WILL DO THAT. NOT GOING ANYWHERE. WANT TO BE IN THIS ROOM? ALL RIGHT. SO REAL QUICK, BEFORE I END THE MEETING, THE ONLY ADMINISTRATIVE I HAVE IS IF YOU SEE THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT. WE DID MOVE THE REPORTS TO COUNCIL TOWARDS THE END OF THE MEETING. WE'RE TRYING SOMETHING NEW TO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARINGS START SOONER IN OUR IN OUR MEETING. SO LOOK FOR THAT TONIGHT AND I

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.

CALL TO ORDER

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Feb 11, 2025 Committee of the Whole

CALL TO ORDER

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