Mar 25, 2025 Committee of the Whole

THING OR TWO. I WON'T SAY WHAT IT. I'LL TELL YOU. RECORDING AND PROGRESS. I JUST WANT TO HIT

[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:08]

[a. Discussion Regarding the Good Landlord Program and Short Term Rentals]

OUR FAVORITE TOPIC. GREAT TOPIC. YES, IT'S A GOOD LANDLORD PROPERTY. IT'S A GOOD LANDLORD.

SO PATRICK BOYCE WILL HELP US OUT HERE AND GIVE A OUR SECOND ROUND ON THIS. SO LET US KNOW HOW IT WENT. THIS MIGHT BE OUR THIRD ROUND ON THIS, BUT IT IS YOUR FAVORITE. YOU SAID SO.

YEAH. SO JUST BROUGHT BACK THE ORDINANCE AND PROGRAM HAD A FEW CHANGES AND THINGS THAT WE INCORPORATED IN THERE. I'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK FROM COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. GOT A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK OBVIOUSLY FROM A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS. HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO INCORPORATE ALL OF THE ITEMS IN THIS DRAFT IN TIME TO HAVE IT PUBLISHED FOR TODAY'S MEETING, BECAUSE JUST KIND OF WHEN THINGS CAME IN. BUT WE ARE LOOKING TO OBVIOUSLY STILL REVISE SOME OF THE PROGRAMS AND THE WAY THAT THEY WORK. A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE DID LOOK AT JUST THE TOP KIND OF LEVEL STUFF IS THE FEE AMOUNTS. I KNOW THAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT MAYBE GOING UP TO $75 FOR THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM. I REALLY THINK 50 IS KIND OF THAT SWEET SPOT WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO BE FOR A DISCOUNTED RATE FOR OUR GOOD LANDLORD PARTNERS THAT PARTNER WITH US. IT STILL PROVIDES ENOUGH OF AN INCENTIVE THAT IT GETS THEM TO COME JOIN OUR PROGRAM. OTHERWISE, IF WE MAKE IT TOO EXPENSIVE, KIND OF THE COSTS OUTWEIGH THE BENEFIT FOR THEM. WITH SOME OF THE RESTRICTIONS THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON THEM. SO THE 50 IS KIND OF WHERE WE'VE COME AT WITH WITH THAT AMOUNT. THAT'S WHAT WE'D RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL. WE HAVE A FEW, LIKE I SAID, A FEW THINGS. COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN SENT ME. SOME CLEANUP AND SOME SUGGESTIONS. AND I CAN GO THROUGH SOME OF THOSE. I DON'T KNOW, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS AT THE OUTSET OR WE JUST KIND OF LIKE ME TO RUN DOWN THE PROGRAM AND GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW, AND THEN WE CAN BREAK IT DOWN OR AND THEN KIND OF LIKE AN OVERVIEW OF IT. I THINK WE JUST NEED TO DISCUSS THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE AND GO FROM THERE. MY BIGGEST THING, I HEAR THE WORD REVENUE. I'M ALWAYS LEERY OF THAT BECAUSE IN THE TIME I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL, WHENEVER I HEAR WE'RE GOING TO INCREASE REVENUE, I NEVER KNOW WHAT THE REVENUE ACTUALLY GOES. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE'RE INCREASING REVENUE, LIKE YOU SAID, THE REVENUE WOULD NOT BE TO MAKE MORE MONEY FOR THE CITY, BUT THE REVENUE WOULD BE TO COVER COSTS OF. ALL OF ENFORCEMENT. YEAH. ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM. YEAH. AND SCOTT'S HERE, BROCK'S HERE, CORBIN'S HERE. THE GOAL IS TO ADD ONE FULL TIME EMPLOYEE TO ADMINISTER THIS PROGRAM FOR NOT ONLY OR NOT ONLY GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAMS, BUT ALSO SHORT TERM RENTALS. THAT'S KIND OF BEEN THE WEAK SPOT IN THESE PROGRAMS IN THE PAST IS THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD THE PERSONNEL TO THROW AT IT TO OVERSEE THE LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT THAT THE CITY AND THE CODE HAS ALREADY PREVIOUSLY CALLED FOR.

SO THE INCREASE IN FEES WOULD GO TOWARDS SUPPORTING A FULL TIME EMPLOYEE TO HELP ADMINISTER THAT PROGRAM. THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE OF A SCOTT ISSUE, BUT BECAUSE THE INCREASE IN FEES COVER THE COST OF THE EMPLOYEE. WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE IT GOES FROM 171 TO 408. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT COVERS THE COST. WE DID SOME REVENUE ESTIMATING AND IT'S ESTIMATED THAT IT WILL, BUT NOT MUCH MORE. SO THAT'S YOU KNOW THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT. I'LL FEES THAT WILL COVER THE COST OF ADMINISTERING THE PROGRAM. BUT IT WON'T BE A WINDFALL. I MEAN I'M NOT I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING A PROFIT, BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO BE IF IT'S GOING TO BE A PROGRAM THAT WE'RE THAT'S GOING TO BE VIABLE, THE EMPLOYER, IT'S GOT TO BE A SELF SUFFICIENT FUND. RIGHT? WERE THERE ANY BE WELL THERE. WELL THERE BE ANY HARDSHIP OF EXEMPTIONS OR A PHASED IMPLEMENTATION IMPLEMENTATION BE CONSIDERED. NOT STARTING TO PHASE IT IN OTHER THAN IT WOULD BE WHEN WE HAVE LIKE RENEWALS OR SOMETHING. SO IF SOMEBODY'S SET ON FOR RENEWAL IN NOVEMBER, THEY

[00:05:06]

THAT'S NOT AN ASSUMPTION. YOU'RE SAYING I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE. YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO PASS THAT INCREASE ON IMMEDIATELY. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S THEY DO PASS IT ON. WELL, THE ASSUMPTION, OF COURSE, THERE'S I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD SAY THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TIED INTO A LEASE AND THE LEASE IS WHAT DICTATES WHAT THE LANDLORD CHARGES AND WHAT IT IS. BUT BUT THE LEASE IS WHAT GOVERNS IT. AND SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS IF THERE'S AN INCREASE AND, AND A GOOD WAY AND A GOOD PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY IS ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT FAIR MARKET FOR THEIR THEIR PROPERTY OWNER. BUT BUT THERE'S AN INCREASED FEE. THAT'S WHERE IT WILL TAKE EFFECT IS THE NEXT TIME. UNLESS THE LEASE HAS GOT SOME REALLY SQUIRRELY. UNLESS IT'S GOT SOME REALLY SQUIRRELY PARAGRAPH THAT SAYS I CAN PASS THIS ON IMMEDIATELY, IT WILL BE ABSORBED IN THE LEASE FOR AT LEAST UNTIL YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF LEASES.

WHEN COSTS GO UP, YOUR LEASE GOES UP AS A AS A GENERAL RULE, AND THE TWO BUSINESSES EXPENSES GO UP, COSTS UP. TALK ABOUT TARIFFS. BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TERRORISTS. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I MIGHT ADD THAT MIGHT KIND OF GO ALONG THIS LINE IS, IS THAT THE OBLIGATIONS OF THE LANDLORD UNDER THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM IS TO HAVE A WRITTEN LEASE AGREEMENT. SO YEAH, WHICH IS GOOD. BUT I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE GOOD LANDLORD. I'M GOING TO START AT THE BOTTOM OF MY BOTTOM OF MY LIST AND MOVE FORWARD. MY QUESTION TO THE COUNCIL WOULD BE AND FIRST OFF, YOU SAW IN THE A LOT OF MY COMMENTS THAT IT SHOULD SAY RESIDENTIAL OWNER OR PROPERTY MANAGER. HERE'S MY QUESTION. WOULD WE WANT TO GIVE THE LANDLORDS OR THE OWNERS? LET ME REPHRASE THAT. PROPERTY OWNERS A BIGGER BREAK ON THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM. IF THEY HIRED A PROFESSIONAL PROPERTY MANAGER TO MANAGE THE PROPERTY SO THAT YOU ALWAYS HAD A PROPERTY MANAGER AND A COMPANY THAT YOU COULD GO TO AND, YOU KNOW, AND THE PROPERTY MANAGER IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE RESPONSIVE, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE AN OUT OF STATE LANDLORD. SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, WOULD IT BE WOULD COULD WE WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO GIVE THEM A DISCOUNT, A BETTER DISCOUNT IF WE IF THEY HIRED A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY? WELL, I THINK THAT'S A HARD ONE BECAUSE BETWEEN THE SMALL LIKE MOM AND POP LANDLORDS AND THE LARGE PROPERTY OWNERS, LARGE PROPERTY OWNERS ALREADY HAVE THAT. AND SO THAT'S ALMOST AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, GIVING THE LARGE PROPERTY OWNERS A DISCOUNT WHEN MOM AND POPS MAY BE DOING IT THEMSELVES, AND THEN HAVE A PROPERTY MANAGER WHEN HE WAS RENTING HIS HOUSE OUT, THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, INCLUDING KEEP UP THEIR END AT THE CONTRACT. SO HAPPENED TO BE I HAPPEN TO BE TO KNOW. OKAY, WELL NEVER MIND THEN I WOULD BE OPPOSED. NEVER MIND. COUNCIL MEMBER CAN I? I CAME PREPARED, I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO HIT THIS ONE. TEN ONE, 2 OR 3.51 I LITTLE I RESIDENTIAL LANDLORD MEANS OWNER OF RECORD OR PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. THIRD PARTY. SO BECAUSE WE'VE ADOPTED THOSE DEFINITIONS IT'S ALREADY INCLUDED. SECOND QUESTION TO COUNCIL. AND THIS GOES INTO THE OBLIGATIONS OF THE LANDLORD UNDER THE LANDLORD PROGRAM. AND IN FACT ALL THESE THREE QUESTIONS DEAL WITH THIS. BUT THE FIRST ONE. ONE OF THE BIG REASONS WE WANT TO HAVE THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM IN THE CITY IS

[00:10:04]

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING ACTUALLY THAT THAT BROCK MAY OR MAY NOT WANT TO SPEAK TO. I DON'T KNOW, BUT BUT WE WANT WE WANT CODE ENFORCEMENT TO BE ABLE TO GO OUT AND INSPECT EACH PROPERTY FROM THE OUTSIDE, OBVIOUSLY DRIVE BY IT, HAVE EYES ON IT AT LEAST EVERY OTHER YEAR OR SO FOR THESE VERY REASONS. IF THERE ARE REPEATED ISSUES WITH WEEDS, WITH JUNK, WITH YARD CARE, WITH OTHER THINGS, THAT WOULD BE A CODE ENFORCEMENT VIOLATION. AND AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO WITHIN A 12 MONTH PERIOD, IT'S GROUNDS FOR REMOVAL UNDER WHAT WE HAD IN. 4 TO 6, JUST KIND OF GROUNDS FOR REMOVAL ONE OF THE LAST CONDITIONS. SO WE'VE GOT IT IN THERE THAT IF YOU ARE A KIND OF A HABITUAL OFFENDER, IF YOU CONTINUE TO HAVE WEEDS, IF YOU CONTINUE TO NOT WATER YOUR LAWN, YOU CONTINUE TO HAVE CARS PARKED IN YOUR FRONT YARD. BROCK SKIES WILL SHOW UP. THEY'LL ISSUE CITATION TWO OR MORE VIOLATIONS IN A SET AMOUNT OF TIME WOULD BE GROUNDS FOR REMOVAL FROM THE PROGRAM AND THE DISCOUNT THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THIS. OKAY. PLEASE. SO FIRST OFF, I THINK WE NEED TO PUT IN THE THAT LANDSCAPING, EXISTING CITY LANDSCAPING IS SOMETHING THAT THEY AGREE TO MAINTAIN BECAUSE THEY'RE SIGNING A MINING AGREEMENT WITH US. RIGHT. YEAH, WE CAN PUT THAT IN THERE. AND IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT SAYS THEY ARE AWARE THAT THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN AND THAT IF THEY IF THE LANDSCAPING GOES BAD, THEY GET THE CODE ENFORCEMENT. PLUS THEY LOSE THEIR THEIR REDUCED ASSESSMENT ON THEIR UNITS. I THINK THAT BECOMES APPROPRIATE AND IT GIVES THEM FAIR WARNING. RIGHT. SO THE NEXT THE NEXT ONE I HAVE ON THAT ONE ON ON, ON. IS THAT THE SECTION THAT SAYS THEY CAN'T HAVE ANY VIOLATION OF CITY, COUNTY, HEALTH, STATE OR FEDERAL REGULATIONS? THAT SEEMS OVERLY BROAD AND EXTREMELY NEBULOUS. I THINK WE NEED TO CLEAN THAT UP.

YEAH, WE COULD TIGHTEN THAT UP. IT'S KIND OF THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT WE USE FOR GENERAL BUSINESS LICENSES. I KNOW, BUT BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FOR A FOR A BUSINESS LICENSE OKAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO LET'S JUST TAKE THE HYPOTHETICAL. WE GOT WE GOT JOE, WE GOT JOE PROPERTY OWNER AND HE AND HE DOESN'T FILE HIS INCOME TAXES FOR A YEAR. AND HE GETS A UTAH STATE TAX LIEN FOR NOT FILING HIS TAXES. ARE WE GOING TO REVOKE THE BUSINESS LICENSE FOR THAT? WE CAN UNDER THAT RULE, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WE WANT TO BE IN THAT BUSINESS. I THINK I THINK THAT THE VIOLATIONS OF CITY, COUNTY, HEALTH AND MAYBE STATE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT FEDERAL REGULATION WE'RE GOING TO VIOLATE UNLESS IT'S LED IN AN AIRPLANE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT FEDERAL REGULATION THEY'RE GOING TO VIOLATE THAT WE WOULD REVOKE A BUSINESS LICENSE

[00:15:04]

CONSTITUTIONALLY THEY HAVE A POINT THOUGH. I DON'T LIKE I DON'T LIKE WRITING CODE AND I'M ON MY VERY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH PUTTING CODE IN PLACE WAS THE GRAFFITI ORDINANCE WHEN I WAS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION 12 YEARS AGO, 15 YEARS WHEN WE DEALT WITH THE CORNER. NO, IT WAS WHEN WE WERE MAKING THE ORDINANCE. AND I REMEMBER TALKING TO ONE OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS BECAUSE I WAS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND I SAID, I DON'T LIKE THIS BECAUSE THIS MEANS YOU COULD GO UP TO ANY KID WALKING HOME FROM SCHOOL. AND IF HE HAS A BROAD TIP MARKER IN HIS BACKPACK, YOU COULD WRITE HIM A TICKET. AND COUNCIL MEMBER SAID, I CAN ENFORCE IT THAT WAY. AND SO MY THOUGHT WAS, WELL, THEN DON'T WRITE IT THAT WAY. BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE THAT WAY DOESN'T MEAN THE NEXT GUY ENFORCE IT THAT WAY, BECAUSE HE COULD. SO I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT. IF WE SAID EVEN CITY, COUNTY, HEALTH, STATE OR FEDERAL REGULATION DEALING WITH THE PROPERTY IN WEST JORDAN CITY OR SOMETHING THAT GAVE US A NEXUS, MAYBE I COULD BUY THAT. BUT JUST SAYING THAT, JUST GIVING THAT LIST AND SAYING ANY VIOLATION OF LAW IS A IS A GROUNDS TO BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, IS ANY VIOLATION OF LAW IS THE GROUNDS TO REVOKE YOUR BUSINESS LICENSE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD PASS ANY TEST IN A COURT. WE COULD WE COULD SAY POTENTIALLY ANYTHING GREATER THAN AN INFRACTION TO KIND OF REMOVE THE ISSUE OF SPEEDING TICKETS OR PARKING TICKETS. BUT BUT I THINK WHAT WE WANT TO COVER IS OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE HEALTH REGULATIONS ARE ARE IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IS IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S DRUGS OR FIREARMS OR SOME OTHER THINGS, SOMETIMES THOSE AMOUNT TO FEDERAL MORE SO EVEN THAN LOCAL OR STATE. AND I THINK WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COVER SO BUT WHAT WHAT ARE WE TALK. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REVOKING A BUSINESS LICENSE FOR A DRUG OFFENSE, THAT'S A DRUG OFFENSE THAT THAT HOUSE THAT'S NOT A DRUG OFFENSE BECAUSE THE PROPERTY OWNER GOT A DRUG PARAPHERNALIA TICKET ON THEIR WAY HOME FROM COLORADO THAT THEY DROVE THROUGH VERNAL. AND SO I THINK THAT WE'VE GOT TO BE MORE CLEAR ON WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW THAT CAN REVOKE A BUSINESS LICENSE, NOT JUST SAYING WE CAN REVOKE IT FOR ANY VIOLATION OF LAW IN THE UNITED STATES. VERY FAIR POINT. AND I IF COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO KIND OF DISCUSS WHAT WHAT THEY THINK THOSE PARAMETERS SHOULD BE, I THINK WE COULD TRY AND NARROW IT DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. YOU KNOW, I THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE I THINK THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH WITH, WITH THIS ONE, WHICH BY THE WAY, THE AMOUNT OF BUSINESS LICENSE REVOCATIONS THAT THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN HAS DONE FOR QUITE SOME TIME IS, IS PROBABLY ZERO. YEAH, IN FACT, PROBABLY LESS THAN ONE. I DON'T KNOW, WE DON'T TEND TO REVOKE A LOT OF BUSINESS LICENSES. AGAIN, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE OF A LACK OF RESOURCES FOR THAT ENFORCEMENT AND OVERSIGHT. WHICH MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THIS PROGRAM WILL START TO KIND OF HELP US. HAVE. BUT WE DO ENCOUNTER BUSINESSES WHO ARE ENGAGING IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.

AND WHEN WE HAVE BUSINESSES THAT ARE ENGAGING IN, IN, IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES WITHIN OUR COMMERCIAL AREAS, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T ALLOW THAT IN THE IN THE CITY. AND IF THERE'S RESIDENCES THAT ARE BEING USED AS. DRUG DENS OR, OR AND OTHER TYPES OF THINGS, WE JUST WANT

[00:20:10]

IF WE SAID THAT IT'S DIRECT, IF WE SAID THAT IT'S A VIOLATION OF ANY OF THOSE THAT'S DIRECTLY TIED TO THE PROPERTY OR THE RENTAL OF THAT PROPERTY, THEN MAYBE WE'RE THEN WE'RE GETTING CLOSER TO THE TARGET. THEN WE JUST SAY, WELL, WE REVOKE THE BUSINESS LICENSE BECAUSE THE OWNER DID SOMETHING BAD. WHEN A BUSINESS DOES SOMETHING WRONG, WE DON'T PENALIZE THE BUILDING THAT THAT BUSINESS IS IN. SAME WAY TO APPLY. WE SHOULDN'T PENALIZE THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE VERSUS THE PERSON WHO DID THE ILLEGAL THING. YEAH, I THINK WHAT WE'RE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO THOUGH, TOO, IS, IS IN IN HAVING THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM ENCOURAGE LANDLORDS TO SPEND MORE TIME ON THE FRONT END AS TO AS TO THEIR SELECTION. WELL, SAME WITH THE SAME WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER WITH A BUSINESS IN IT. SO I DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE THERE. WELL, THE DIFFERENCE I THINK THOUGH TOO, IS THAT WHEN WE SHUT, WHEN WE SHUT DOWN A BUSINESS FOR VIOLATING THE LAW, WE DO DEPRIVE THE PROPERTY OWNER OF POTENTIAL RENTS, WHICH IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH RIGHT RESIDENTS. SO TAKE A RESIDENT OUT OR SOMEONE LIKE OR POLICE OR WHATEVER. THEY GO TO JAIL. THAT HURTS THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS WHICH IS WHICH IS WHICH IS IN LINE. SO WE SHOULD BE THE POLICE OFFICER, BUT WE WANT BUT WE WANT ENOUGH LEVERAGE OVER THE PROPERTY OWNER TO SAY, YOU'VE GOT TO BE INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR PROPERTY IS NOT BEING USED FOR ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT, YEAH, I GET THAT. YOU'VE GOT JUST JUST ENOUGH RESPONSIBILITY. YEAH. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO I'M JUST SAYING IF WE'RE GOING TO APPLY THIS TO RESIDENTS AND HOMEOWNERS, WE NEED TO DO THE SAME THING FOR BUSINESSES AND THE LANDLORDS. YEAH, I AGREE, AND THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY THIS THE SAME LANGUAGE WAS ESSENTIALLY I THINK WE JUST NEED WE CAN TIGHTEN THAT UP TO ADD THE VIOLATIONS BE TIED TO THE PROPERTY OR THE RENTAL OF THE PROPERTY. I CAN MASSAGE THAT A LITTLE BIT IF THERE'S COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT LOOK AT THAT. YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO SHOW THEM OUR HAND. I'M NOT SURE WE'VE LANDED ON THE RIGHT SPOT YET. AGREE WITH PUSHING DOWN ON MY HEAD. AND IF IT NEEDS FURTHER DISCUSSION, I DON'T WANT TO RUSH THE DISCUSSION ALONG. COUPLE MORE. COUPLE MORE ISSUES THAT I HAVE. THERE'S ONE. YOU SAW IT ON MY NOTES. THERE'S ONE THAT SAYS THAT WE CAN REVOKE THE BUSINESS LICENSE IF THE LANDLORD FAILS T, TO ALLOW AN INSPECTION. MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT RETALIATORY BECAUSE THE LANDLORD HAS A FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SAY, I DON'T WANT AN INSPECTION OR PARTICULARLY AN INSIDE INSPECTION. YOU KNOW, AND WE SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T COME INSPECT.

AND THEN WE SAY, FINE, WE'RE GOING TO REVOKE YOUR BUSINESS LICENSE. I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO BE, AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT ONE. I'M NOT MARRIED TO ANY OF THOSE PROVISIONS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO CUT THAT ONE OUT. NO. SOMETHING. AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT TO AFFORD A PRIVILEGE TO SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT WILLING TO CONFIRM TO US THAT THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR RECEIVING THAT PRIVILEGE. AND THERE ISN'T A FOURTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS THAT WOULD ENTITLE ANYBODY TO DO THAT. AND SO THEY OPT IN. RIGHT.

AND THEY SAY, YEAH, WE WANT THIS. AND THEN IF THEY SAY, WELL, I'M NOT WILLING TO LET YOU COME AND CONFIRM THAT I'M COMPLIANT WITH ALL OF THIS. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT TO ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE TO IF WE. SO THEN IF WE SPECIFICALLY SAY IT'S A FOURTH AMENDMENT WAIVER, WHEN THEY WHEN THEY SIGN UP AND SAY YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW US AS PART OF THE GOOD, GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, YOU CAN SEND TO ON PROPERTY INSPECTIONS AND YOUR AND YOU YOU VOLUNTARILY OR UNDERSTANDING THAT'S A WAIVER. IF WE PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN THERE AND WE SAY YES THEY'RE THEY'RE KNOWINGLY WAIVING THEIR FOURTH AMENDMENT. RIGHT. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. BUT IF WE JUST IF IT'S A VERBAL THING, SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT AND INSPECT. HE SAYS NO AND THEN WE REVOKE IT. I THINK THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE EXECUTED AGREEMENT THAT THEY SIGNED. ONE OF THE THOUGHTS I HAD ON THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR WAS TO KIND OF SOFTEN THE LANGUAGE AT THE OUTSET, BECAUSE STATE LAW, AGAIN, DOESN'T ALLOW US TO DO INSPECTIONS OF THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE WITHOUT CONSENT AND WITHOUT OR WITHOUT A WARRANT. RIGHT. WE HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THOSE TWO. AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE WANT TO GO AND SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO ALLOW US

[00:25:06]

IT'S FAIRLY SIMPLE THAT IF WE HAD SOMETHING THAT HAD A GOOD NEIGHBOR OR A GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM ADDRESS, ANYTHING PINGED TO THAT BOOM, GOES TO GOES TO SOMETHING THAT WHEN WE HAVE THIS NEW PERSON THAT'S HIRED, THEY THEN JUST KEEP TRACK OF ALL THAT WORK SHOULD HELP US WITH THAT.

YEAH, BUT I DON'T KNOW, SCOTT, BUT THE POLICE AREN'T ON CITY WORKERS. NO, BUT THEY'RE SUPER COMMUNICATIVE. AND WHEN WE WHEN WE ASK FOR INFORMATION, WHEN WE HAVE ASKED FOR INFORMATION FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT ON PROBLEMATIC BUSINESSES, IT'S BEEN AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. SO I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO PUT THE DEPUTY CHIEF ON THE SPOT HERE. I KNOW MOST OF YOUR CRIME STUFF GOES INTO AN ADDRESS, BECAUSE THE GIS GUYS PULL THAT. ARE THEY PULLING THAT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM, THAT THEY'RE PULLING ADDRESSES OUT OF THE DATABASE? THEY DON'T PULL IT DIRECTLY. BUT YEAH, WE COOPERATE WITH THEM. AND SO OUR ANALYSTS CAN PULL IT OUT. SO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS SOME SORT OF SOLIDIFY THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS. THE POLICE CAN JUST DUMP THEIR QUARTERLY ACTIVITY LOG THAT'S

[00:30:08]

AND SO THAT'S A GREAT TOOL THAT WE COULD USE AS WELL TO HELP US. STATE LEGISLATURE PASS SOME NEW REGULATIONS ON ON HOW WE CAN DEAL WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THOSE HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED TO AN EXTENT IN, IN OUR, OUR CODE, BUT OKAY. BUT I STILL OWN THE HOME. YEAH. WELL YOU'RE NOT RENTING IT OUT. YOU TOOK MY BUSINESS LICENSE. BUT.

SO UNLESS MY NEIGHBORS CALL YOU, I MEAN, I DON'T I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU PROCEED WITH THIS LEGALLY. I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK, BECAUSE TO ME, THERE'S A MISSING PIECE THERE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU CAN. I OWN A HOME. YOU CAN'T DICTATE WHAT I DO WITH THAT HOME. YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE A BUSINESS LICENSE. WELL, THERE'S LOTS OF BUSINESSES AND HOMES IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT DON'T HAVE LICENSES. AND IF THEY DON'T RENT IT OUT AND DON'T HAVE THE BUSINESS LICENSE OR THE RENTAL LICENSE, THEN IT BECOMES A CODE ENFORCEMENT CITATION, RIGHT? IT'S A NOTICE OF VIOLATION. BROCK HANDLES THOSE SECOND FRIDAY OF EVERY MONTH AT 9:00 AM, SOMETIMES AT 830. AND IT'S A IT'S A PRETTY COMMON OCCURRENCE IF THEY'RE IF THEY'RE OPERATING WITHOUT A BUSINESS LICENSE, IF THEY'RE OPERATING THEN WE GIVE THEM A FINE. AND IF THEY DON'T PAY THE FINE, WE PUT A LIEN ON THEIR HOME. SO WE REALLY CAN'T DO ANYTHING. WE CAN KEEP ENFORCING THE FINE. WE CAN WE CAN TAKE SOME OTHER STEPS. IT'S IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW HARD WE'RE WANTING TO PUSH IT AND HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM IT IS. RIGHT? IT MAY BE CHEAPER TO PAY THE FINE THAN TO GET A BUSINESS LICENSE. AND ALSO, I THINK WE'RE JUST MIXING THE LANDLORD AND THE BUSINESS LICENSE, AND MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THEM SEPARATELY. SO THE GOOD LANDLORD IS PART OF THE BUSINESS LICENSE. SO IT'S, IT'S WE'RE WE'RE SAYING THIS IS A RENTAL PROPERTY. YOU'RE RUNNING A BUSINESS AS A RENTAL PROPERTY. YOU'RE LICENSING YOUR PREMISES. ONLY THE LANDLORD IS, IS SAYING IF YOU KIND OF TAKE THESE ADDITIONAL STEPS, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A SIGNIFICANT BREAK IN YOUR FEES BECAUSE WE WANT HOUSING FOR THE COMMUNITY. WE ALSO WANT GOOD NEIGHBORS. WE

[00:35:03]

YOU CAN RENT IT, YOU CAN RENT THAT OUT AND NOT REQUIRE THAT THOSE PEOPLE BE ON THE LEASE.

YOU JUST CAN'T BE PART OF THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM. IT'S JUST THAT SECOND STEP. YOU JUMP THROUGH ADDITIONAL HOOPS TO GET THE BREAK IN THE RATE TO AVOID THOSE SITUATIONS BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL FOR ISSUES. THIS MAY BE SHOCKING TO EVERYBODY, BUT I AGREE WITH KELVIN. NOT THAT PART. I AGREE WITH KELVIN A LOT, BUT I AGREE THAT THIS PART SHOULD PROBABLY NOT BE IN HERE JUST BECAUSE AGAIN, I'D RATHER DEAL WITH SYMPTOM BEING THE SYMPTOM, NOT I'D RATHER DEAL WITH THE CUP, WHATEVER. I'D RATHER DEAL WITH THE ACTUAL PROBLEM. NOT THE THING THAT OH WOW, THAT MIGHT LEAD TO A PROBLEM IF BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE A HOUSE WITH FOUR COUSINS AND THREE BROTHERS AND A SISTER IN LAW, AND THEY'RE QUIET AND THEY'RE PEACEFUL, AND THEY NEVER CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL. AND I'D RATHER HAVE THAT THAN THE FAMILY WITH THE KID WHO RUNS AROUND NAKED OUTSIDE ALL THE TIME. AND MY NIECE GOES UP TO THE WINDOW AND GOES, NIKKI, NIKKI OUT THE WINDOW, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT YOUR SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED RECENTLY ON THAT SAME THING. YOU KNOW, WHEN MY OLDEST CAME HOME FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AFTER A BREAKUP, I'M NOT GOING TO PUT HIM ON THE LEASE KNOWING I'M JUST HELPING THEM GET ON THEIR FEET TO GET BACK OUT OF THE HOUSE. THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. AND I DON'T WANT MY LANDLORD GETTING IN TROUBLE BECAUSE I JUST HAVE MY OLDEST HOME FOR A FEW MONTHS WHILE THEY'RE GETTING BACK ON THEIR FEET AND GOING BACK TO SCHOOL. THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH SIX ADULTS LIVING IN THE HOUSE. I WONDER WHAT THAT PROBLEM IS AND WE CAN PUT THAT IN THERE. RIGHT? I DON'T WANT TO BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE SIX SUPER QUIET, HAPPY ADULTS THAT NEVER LEAVE HOME AND IT'S JUST HAPPY. SOUNDS LIKE A CHIEF ROBERTSON. DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THAT? YOUR FACE IS SHOWING THAT YOU HAVE SOME THOUGHTS, THOUGHTS THAT YOU WANT TO VERBALIZE. THE BIGGEST, THE SOME

[00:40:06]

THOUGHT YOU OUGHT TO BE AWARE OF THIS UNDER THE NOTIFICATION RULE. WHAT YOU NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT TAKING CARE OF THIS AND LET THE LANDLORD DEAL WITH THE PRIMARY TENANT WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE RIGHT OF ENJOYMENT OF THE PROPERTY TO THAT ADDRESS, NOT AN INDIVIDUAL.

I'M GOOD WITH IT. I TAKE INSTRUCTION, I WOULD, I WOULD. POSIT THIS POTENTIAL IF YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE ON THE LEASE, RIGHT. THE REMEDY FOR THE LANDLORD IS, IS WHAT IF ONE OF THEM IS A PROBLEM WITH EVICTION? IF ONE PERSON IS ON THE LEASE AND THE OTHER ONE'S NOT? AND THE PROBLEM IS THE ONE WHO'S NOT ON THE LEASE, THEY'RE STILL ALL OUT. THEY'RE STILL THEY'RE STILL THEY'RE STILL ALLOWED. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE GOOD, THE GOOD LANDLORD REMEDY IN SAYING, HEY, I'M TRYING TO MAINTAIN MY PROPERTY, NOT CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR THE NEIGHBORS. THE PROBLEM PERSON IS NOT ON THE LEASE, BUT CAN EVICT THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ON THE LEASE AND THEY CAN'T EVICT THEM IF THEY'RE NOT OFF. I THINK YOU PICK THE ONE WHO IS ON I, I, I WOULD TAKE THEM OUT. I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE THE, I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE THE ATTORNEY TRYING TO EVICT A PERSON FOR NOT VIOLATING THEIR LEASE WHEN THEY HAVEN'T VIOLATED THEIR LEASE, IF THEY'RE ALLOWING SOMEBODY TO STAY THERE. NOT SAYING THAT THE LANDLORD CAN'T REQUIRE THAT. WE'RE JUST SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO DO IT RIGHT. AND WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS THAT A LOT OF LEASES REQUIRE ALL THE ADULTS.

CORRECT. ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT, IN THE SIMPLE TERMS, IS WE'RE REQUIRING A WRITTEN, SIGNED LEASE. NOW, IF THE LANDLORD DECIDES HE WANTS TO PUT ALL ADULTS ON THERE, THAT'S THE LANDLORD CHOICE. BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO REQUIRE IT. AND THEN WE GO. SO WE TAKE THAT SECTION OUT AND JUST LET THE LANDLORD DECIDE, BECAUSE THE LANDLORD IS RESPONSIBLE UNDER THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, TO DEAL WITH. IF THE LANDLORD IS GOING TO TRY AND EVICT THE PERSON WHO'S NOT ON THE LEASE. AND NO, THEY CAN'T BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ON THE LEASE. SO THEY CAN ONLY AFFECT THE PERSON WHO IS ON THE LEASE. IT SHOULD BE IN THE LEASE THAT THE LESSOR OR THE LESSEE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BEHAVIOR OF EVERYBODY THEY ALLOW TO STAY THERE. YEAH, THAT THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE TENANTS. QUIET ENJOYMENT OF THAT. ALMOST. EXACTLY. AND DIDN'T IT DIDN'T THEY DID THEY DID. DID THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THAT ONE LAW THAT MADE IT EASIER FOR NON TENANTS TO BE EVICTED? THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT AS. SO YEAH I'LL, I'VE MARKED THAT ONE AND I CAN STRIKE THAT THAT PATRICK. YEAH I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN. THIS THIS CONVERSATION I WANT TO MAKE SURE I DO EVERY EVERY OTHER CITY THAT HAS THIS PROGRAM HAS THAT RIGHT WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE. SO SALT LAKE, SOUTH SALT LAKE, THEY WANT BACKGROUND CHECKS ON EVERY ADULT WHO'S PART OF THEIR GOOD WORK PROGRAM. AND THE PART OF THE REASONING ON THAT IS THAT THERE'S AGAIN, IT'S A TIGHTER PROGRAM BECAUSE OF THE SUBSTANTIAL DECREASE IN FEES

[00:45:02]

IT'S A IT'S A PROGRAM THAT THEY RUN. AGAIN, I, I'M JUST SAYING THAT FOR ME, TO ME THAT SEEMS A BIT EXTREME. THAT IS IN THERE. SO YEAH, NO, I DEFINITELY I DIDN'T GO AS FAR AS SOUTH SALT LAKE, BUT I THINK THAT THE ISSUE FOR THE COUNCIL TO DECIDE IS, IS THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM. BROAD FOR EVERYBODY TO COME THROUGH WITH FEW RELATIVELY. MINIMAL RESTRICTIONS OR IS IT NARROW AND TIGHT AND, AND WE AND WE AND WE PLACE ADDITIONAL THINGS IN THERE THAT WE CAN TIE TO HEY, THIS IS GOING TO HELP TENANTS COME IN. THIS IS GOING TO HELP LANDLORDS WITH THEIR TENANTS. THIS IS GOING TO HELP LAW ENFORCEMENT WITH THEIR JOBS. WHEN THERE ARE PROBLEMS, IT'S GOING TO HELP CODE ENFORCEMENT. IT'S GOING TO HELP NEIGHBORS. THAT'S I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM IS KIND OF INTENDED. BUT AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT HOW WE WANT THAT THAT OPENING TO BE. HERE'S MY OPINION. IF EVERY LANDLORD IN THE CITY SIGNED UP FOR THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, GOOD FOR THEM.

BECAUSE WHAT IT SAYS TO ME IS THAT LANDLORDS ARE GOING TO PROVIDE US SOME CONTACT INFORMATION AND SOME OTHER BITS OF INFORMATION THAT WE WANT, AND A CONTRACT WITH THEM THAT SAYS, YES, WE UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR IN WEST JORDAN CITY. IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THE LANDSCAPING GO CRAPPY. WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE TENANTS TO HAVE A DRUG LAB. WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS GET THE LANDLORD TO SAY WE WANT TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR, LIKE THE REST OF US, NOT NOT MAKE THIS A RESTRICTIVE CLUB. THAT THAT THAT ONLY ADDRESSES SIX PROPERTIES IN THE CITY. I WOULD JUST AS SOON HAVE 100%. IF I HAD MY WAY, I WOULD HOPE 100% OF THE LANDLORDS SIGN UP FOR THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM, BECAUSE THEN WE HAVE CONTACT INFORMATION AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF THAT WE CAN THEN IF JEREMY'S OFFICERS ARE OUT THERE OR BARRACKS OFFICERS ARE OUT THERE OR THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS OUT THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS, WE CAN START TO SAY, THERE'S A PROBLEM, LANDLORD, WE'VE GOT THEIR CONTACT, WE'VE GOT THEIR DIRECT LINE, AND IF WE DON'T GET THEIR ATTENTION, THEN WE SAY, YOU'RE NOT BEING A GOOD LANDLORD IN THE CITY. AND GUESS WHAT? WE'RE GOING TO REVOKE YOUR GOOD LANDLORD STATUS AND YOUR BUSINESS LICENSE. YOUR BUSINESS COSTS ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE ROOF. THAT'S WHERE I WOULD RATHER BE THAN I WOULD TO MAKE IT A NARROW PROGRAM. WITH ALL THAT, I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE A BROAD PROGRAM AND HAVE EVERYBODY DO THAT. THAT'S HOW WE'RE DIFFERENT THAN SOUTH SALT LAKE. YEAH. SO YEAH, IF, IF BROAD BROAD WINDOW ENCOMPASS EVERYBODY AND, AND REALLY FOCUS ON THE ENFORCEMENT ASPECT ON THE BACKSIDE I THINK THAT THAT WORKS. I THINK IT'S, IT'S A PREFERENCE FOR, FOR THE COUNCIL TO SAY WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE.

AND THIS QUESTION OF WHO'S LISTED ON THE LEASE AND THINGS THAT'S SPECIFICALLY TIED TO THAT. RIGHT. AND IF YOU SAY, LET'S QUALIFY AS MANY AND ENFORCE THAT, THAT WORKS, THAT'S FINE. AND IF THE LANDLORD WANTS TO PUT IT ON THEIR LEASE, THAT'S GREAT. TRUE, TRUE. THE WORD MAY

[00:50:01]

YEAH. YOU JUST. SAYING THAT WE DON'T WANT CARS ON THE STREET, RIGHT. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY I'M JUST WONDERING IF THIS IS IF THIS IS GOING TO HELP US. AND THE ONE PARKING SPOT CAME FROM A COUPLE OF THE COMMERCIAL COMPLEXES THAT ARE STARTING TO CHARGE. OH MY GOSH. YEAH. I THINK THE ONE THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED TO TOUCH. SORRY. YOU CAN TELL I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT. NO, THERE WAS ACTUALLY ONE THAT ALL LANDLORDS KNOW ADMITTED TO THEIR RESIDENTS. THERE'S ACTUALLY ONE THAT SAYS A LANDLORD WILL PROVIDE AT LEAST ONE FREE PARKING. BUT THAT'S NOT SHORT TERM. THAT'S IN THE HOLE. THAT'S IN REGULAR. THAT'S IN, THAT'S IN THAT'S IN. HOW ARE WE ADDRESSING THAT 62 SO, SO WITH THE GOOD SUBJECT. SO WITH THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM WE DO HAVE IT.

IT SAYS THAT THE RESIDENTIAL LANDLORD SHOULD PROVIDE. AND I PUT IN HERE AT LEAST ONE PARKING SPACE ON SITE PER RENTAL UNIT AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE TO THE TENANT. AND IS THAT RETROACTIVE? SO THE CURRENT SPACE IS LIKE NOBODY HAS TO STOP CHARGING I IT WOULD BE THEY GET THE ONCE THEY SIGN UP FOR THE NEXT. YEAH IT'S ON THE LEASE SCOTT. SO THAT'S GREAT. I APPRECIATE THE CLARIFICATION. IF OUR CODE FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S A THREE BEDROOM UNIT, FOR EXAMPLE, WE REQUIRE TWO SPACES, TWO OFF STREET. YEAH. ARE YOU JUST SAYING ONE HAS TO BE FREE AND ONE IS CHARGED, OR DO WE REQUIRE THAT ALL REQUIRED OFF STREET PARKING BE FREE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS. CAN WE CAN WE SAY SOMETHING LIKE INSTEAD OF LIKE ONE BUT REQUIRED SPACES ON OUR CITY CODE. THAT'S FOR CODE, NOT FOR ONE. THE PROBLEM IS, IS YOU GET INTO THESE APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND THEY WERE GETTING ONE AND A HALF SPACES PER UNIT, RIGHT. YEAH. BUT AND THEY CAN'T CHARGE AND THEY CAN'T SPACE FOR YOU AND THEY CAN ONLY GET THE ONE FREE, NOT THE OTHER HALF. WELL YEAH.

BECAUSE ONE, TWO, THREE BEDROOMS. SCOTT'S GOT A VALID POINT. IF IT'S A RESIDENTIAL UNIT IN. AND I WAS GOING TO SAY YOU'RE RENTING A HOUSE I THINK BOB YOU'RE GOING WITH A HOUSE.

RIGHT. WELL, I'M. BUT I'M JUST SAYING THIS IS WHERE THIS LAW DOESN'T FIT. APARTMENT AND HOUSE. UNLESS THE HOUSES. THE HOUSES I LIKE WHERE SCOTT'S GOING IS THAT IF IT'S A THREE BEDROOM HOUSE, MY LANDLORD PROBABLY OUGHT TO PROVIDE THREE PARKING SPOTS. THREE BEDROOM APARTMENT, SAME THING AT THREE. THE THREE BEDROOM APARTMENT WON'T HAVE THREE PARKING SPOTS BECAUSE CITY CODE ONLY SAID YOU HAD TO HAVE A FUNKY NUMBER, RIGHT? ISN'T THAT THE WAY THERE'S NOT. THERE'S NOT A THERE'S NOT A PARKING SPOT PER BEDROOM IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT COULD GET COMPLEX. THERE IS. IS THERE PER PER BED? RIGHT. OKAY. IT'S A SLIDING SCALE.

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO GO. YOU CAN'T CHARGE FOR PARKING FOR REQUIRED CITY PARKING SPACE REQUIREMENTS OR SOMETHING. SO I LIKE THAT. SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THE CITY SAID YOU HAD TO HAVE ONE AND A HALF SPACES FOR CARS IN YOUR APARTMENT COMPLEX, AND YOU CAN'T CHARGE FOR THOSE ONE AND A HALF, THAT GOES UP TO TWO. WORK ON THE LANGUAGE. IF WE TIE IT BACK TO CITY CODE, WE CAN WE CAN FINE TUNE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF AN APARTMENT WAS REQUIRED TO PUT IN 400 SPACES AND THEY PUT IN 450, THEY COULD ONLY CHARGE FOR THE 50. THEY CAN CHARGE FOR THE 400 THAT WE REQUIRED THEM TO PUT IN. YES, I LIKE WHERE YOU GO WITH THAT. I LIKE THIS THIS ONE THING BOTHERED ME. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S ENOUGH CONSENSUS ON THAT. I, I I'LL GET WITH SCOTT AND KIND OF MASSAGE THE LANGUAGE ON ON THAT ONE AS WELL. MAYBE WE COULD EVEN PUT IN IF THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE A PROVISION THAT PARKING WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ON, ON THE GOOD LANDLORD PROGRAM AT LEAST TO KEEP THOSE RIGHT AWAY ON PUBLIC. YEAH, BECAUSE WE'RE DOING THAT FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL. WE'RE TELLING THEM THEY

[00:55:01]

YOU GOT TO UPLOAD IT YOURSELF. HANDLE YOUR OWN THAT BEFORE WE DO THE LICENSE. GOOD. DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER CONCERNS. SO PATRICK ON SHORT TERM RENTAL I HAVE ONE COMMENT OKAY. SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE GOING TO BE CITYWIDE, CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS SAID LAST TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU STILL CHANGE YOUR HEART. I HERE'S WHY I SAID THIS. HERE'S WHY I'M ASKING. SHORT

[01:00:01]

WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND IT MAKES US NERVOUS. SO IT'S THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC AND YES, YOU CAN GET IT FOR ANYTHING. BUT THAT WAS THE COMPLAINT. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE DRIVING IN AND OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS A PROBLEM IF THEY DO IT TOO MUCH. NO GOING BACK HOME, GETTING IN AND OUT OF THAT ONE PERSON THOUGHT IT WAS A DRUG HOUSE. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. SO.

AND THEN FOUND OUT IT WAS AN AIRBNB. HOW NEIGHBORHOOD IS FAIRLY. MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS FAIRLY EASY. I KNOW WHERE EVERYONE LIVES, BUT SOMETIMES THIS CAR WILL JUST PARKED IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE. I HAVE NO IDEA WHOSE CAR IS IT. WILL STAY THERE FOR DAYS. SO DOES IT MAKE ME UNEASY A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT CAR IS THERE OR WHY I WAS THERE FOR 3 OR 4 DAYS. SO I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S PUBLIC PROPERTY. BUT STILL IT'S RIGHT. BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CONCERN. YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON THERE. YEAH. I'M JUST SAYING THAT IF I HAD. IF I HAD SOMEBODY MAYBE I WOULDN'T HAVE IF I COMPANY. RIGHT. BUT YOU FINISH. BUT IF I FIND SOMEBODY DRIVING IN AND OUT OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD MORE OFTEN THAN USUAL OR CARS THAT I WOULDN'T KNOW, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE I LIVE ON A STREET WITH MORE THAN FIVE HOUSES. I DON'T KNOW, I DO KNOW, I CAN ALWAYS TELL YOU THERE WAS ONE. ONE YEAR THERE WAS A TRUCK THAT WAS COMING THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, THREE DAYS REVENANT'S ENGINE GOING THROUGH, AND WE KEPT ASKING, WHO IS THIS GUY? AND, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY HE STOPPED COMING. BUT YOU WONDER WHY STUFF LIKE THAT HAPPENS. YEAH, YOU WONDER, BUT ARE THEY DOING ANYTHING WRONG THAT WE NEED TO REGULATE AS A CITY? I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM. PEOPLE JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. RIGHT? SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT MIGHT BE BUYING AND SELLING DRUGS. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S ILLEGAL. PART OF THAT, PART OF THAT WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, THE NOTIFICATION, I THINK THAT WILL PROBABLY HELP. AND YEAH, I THINK HOPEFULLY IT WILL HELP. YEAH. SO LAST QUESTION, THE BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE, IT PASSED THAT ALLOWS US TO USE THE THAT AIRBNB AND VRBO LISTINGS TO DETERMINE IF THEY'RE SHORT TERM RENTALS. IT'S A TOOL. IT'S AN ADDITIONAL TOOL THAT WE CAN'T USE IT AS THE SOLE ENFORCEMENT TOOL, BUT IT CAN BE USED AS ONE OF THE TOOLS.

RIGHT? YEP. OKAY. GOOD. SO I JUST YOU KNOW, FOR ME IT'S LIKE SAYING, OH, I DON'T LIKE BEING IN THIS HOUSE. IT'S, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE IT. I DON'T LIKE IT. BUT BUT HERE'S, HERE'S THE I WOULD PROBABLY PUT A PROBLEM WITH SHORT ON THIS. LET'S PUT WELL LET ME JUST THE SHORT TERM RENTAL IS ACTUALLY TAKING HOUSES OUT OF THE HOUSING STOCK. RIGHT. AND SO THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM.

THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM. BUT IF IT'S TAKING HOUSING OUT OF OUR HOUSING STOCK, THEN THE SHORT

[01:05:04]

OKAY, YEAH, WE SHOULD GET RID OF. THIS PROPERTY TAX FOR SHORT TERM. THAT'S NICE IF YOU CAN DO IT. OKAY. THAT BRINGS US BACK TO A BUSINESS MEETING. AND I'LL MAKE THESE CHANGES AND SAY BUSINESS MEETING. YOU WANT TO BRING IT BACK TO THIS MEETING OR TO COUNCIL? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IS THAT IS THAT GOING TO GO FOR TWO MORE HOURS ON THIS. IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME AND I'LL TRY AND UPLOAD IT JUST AS SOON AS I CAN SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE TIME TO LOOK AT I WOULD I WOULD RATHER BE LIKE CONGRESS PASSED FOUR BILLS A YEAR BECAUSE HE TALKS ABOUT THE PAST 500 YEARS. AND HE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THEM AT ALL ABOUT THEM ENOUGH. YEAH. SO 500, 582 I WAS THINKING THE TEN YEAR AVERAGE. YEAH. BECAUSE THEY WERE THEY WERE IMPRESSED THAT THEY

[b. Discussion of proposed amendments to Council Policies and Procedures]

[01:10:04]

RIGHT? YEAH, RIGHT. YEAH. JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN. BUT AS THE KURDISH. YEAH, AS A COURTESY.

AND IF I WANT THE STAFF TO BE DOING STUFF FOR ME TO FACILITATE THE MEETING, THEN IT'S THEN IT'S NOT JUST ME MEETING WITH THE DEVELOPER OR WITH A CONCERNED CITIZEN OR SOMEBODY ELSE. I THINK YOU'RE I THINK YOU'RE HEADED DOWN THE RIGHT ROAD. IS THAT THIS TOWN HALL MEETING? AND MAYBE WE CHANGE THE DESCRIPTION A LITTLE BIT, BUT THIS TOWN HALL MEETING IS NOT WHERE THE COUNCIL, THE COUNCIL MEMBER, CAN MEET WITH WHOEVER THEY WANT. IF WE'RE HOLDING SOMETHING THAT'S ON A PARTICULAR PROJECT OR THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT NEED STAFF OR STAFF SUPPORT, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IF KEN WANTS TO HOLD A MEETING AND HE DOESN'T CARE THAT HE HAS STAFF SUPPORT, HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS. BUT IF WE HAVE STAFF SUPPORT, THEN WE NEED TO FOLLOW THIS RULE. YEAH, I WOULD SAY THEN IN THE DEFINITION UNDER A FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, A TOWN HALL MEETING IS A MEETING THAT REQUIRES STAFF SUPPORT. SOMETIMES THIS IS THIS USED TO HAPPEN TO ME A LOT. IT HASN'T HAPPENED LATELY, BUT ONE OF THE FIRST ON THE COUNCIL, NEIGHBORS WOULD ORGANIZE A MEETING AND THEN INVITE ME TO IT. AND THAT COULD QUALIFY HERE.

UNDER THIS DEFINITION. AND I LIKE WHERE YOU'RE GOING, IS THAT IF WE DID SOMETHING WHERE IT

[01:15:01]

AND BY THE WAY, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT YOUR PARAGRAPH NUMBERING IS OFF BECAUSE IT'S A, A, BA1, ONE THAT, THAT, THAT THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT. BUT I THINK IN, IN TWO SIX BIG A THAT WE PUT IN THAT THIS IS NO WAY CONSIDERED A MEETING UNDER. 502 PARENTHESES TWO JUST LIKE UP ABOVE IN THE IN THE REST OF THE RULES ABOUT A MEETING SO THAT NOBODY THINKS THIS IS AN OFFICIAL COUNCIL MEETING. WE JUST SPECIFICALLY SAY THIS ISN'T A THIS ISN'T AN OFFICIAL MEETING UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. SO THE SIMILAR VERBIAGE, AS YOU POINTED OUT UNDER THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE SECTION. YES. OKAY. SO I HAVE A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION FOR Y'ALL THEN. SO I WANT TO HOLD A TOWN HALL MEETING. I'M AT LARGE, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO USE ANY OF STAFF'S TIME. SO I DON'T NEED TO TELL ANY OF YOU THAT I'M DOING IT. I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT. YEAH, I THINK THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO CAN VOTE REGARDLESS. AND I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE MIGHT NOT BE RIGHT. I MEAN, I THINK THERE IS SOME COMMON COURTESY AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT I LIKE IF YOU WANT.

PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN. I DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH IT. I THINK IT DOES WHAT IT NEEDS TO DO. THAT'S WHERE I EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT. LIKE, I'M GOING TO BE HONEST, IF YOU HELD A TOWN HALL MEETING, IT WOULDN'T BOTHER ME. IT REALLY WOULDN'T. BUT OTHER PEOPLE IT DOES. IF I HELD A TOWN HALL AND IT BOTHERED THE HECK OUT OF ME. THAT'S NOT TRUE. I JUST HE HAS IT IN HIS YARD. IT'S TRUE. IF I HOLD THE TOWN HALL AND CHAD LANCE BACKYARD, THEN HE GETS MAD. BUT.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, THE COMMON COURTESY COMES INTO PLAY, RIGHT? YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST WANT TO UNIFY COUNCIL AND I. FOR THAT. BUT I'M GETTING AWAY, SO I CAN'T SAY I FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOME CLARITY. CHAIR LAMB HAS SAID WHAT I'M THINKING. ARE WE TRYING TO DEFINE TWO DIFFERENT MEETINGS OR ARE WE RUNNING WITH THIS OR ARE WE SPECIFYING IF YOU NEED COUNCIL STAFF TIME YOU'RE GETTING TWO OR MORE OR WHAT'S WHAT'S THE DEFINITION HERE IS IF THERE'S COUNCIL STAFF INVOLVED, YOU NEED TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS. IF IT'S JUST AN INDIVIDUAL ONE, WE DON'T. THAT'S WHAT I HEARD. AND THEN IS THERE ANY NOTICE REQUIRED FOR EITHER? I THINK WE HEARD. DO YOU JUST WANT TO ASK STAFF TO NOTIFY OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS AND OR GIVE STAFF ASSISTANCE OR REQUEST OF ASSISTANCE TO THE STAFF AS WELL? YEAH. HOW ABOUT THE STAFF NOTIFIES THE REST OF THE COUNCIL, COUNCIL MEMBER OR TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE REQUESTED STAFF SUPPORT FOR A TOWN HALL.

PART OF THAT IS THE STAFF TAKES OUT A NOTICE SAYING, HEY EVERYBODY, THIS IS YEAH, HOW ABOUT HOW ABOUT YOU GET TO WORK, PLEASE? HOW ABOUT A PROVISION THAT SAYS ANYTIME A COUNCIL MEMBER HOLDS A TOWN HALL, WE NOTIFY THE STAFF IF IT REQUIRES STAFF ASSISTANCE FOR ROOM

[01:20:07]

THAT WOULD BE ACTUALLY A CAMPAIGN TOWN HALL, THAT SINGLE COUNCIL MEMBERS. THEN WHY DO WE NEED TO NOTIFY STAFF. AND THAT WOULDN'T BE THAT WOULD BE CAMPAIGN. THIS IS A THIS IS A IT'S STILL IT'S A SINGLE COUNCIL MEMBER HOLDING A TOWN HALL. RIGHT. OKAY. WELL THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU NEED THE LANGUAGE IN HERE FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, THE TOWN HALL MEETING, BECAUSE YOU CAN CALL OTHER THINGS TOWN HALL MEETINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT REQUIRE ALL THIS STUFF AND WHATEVER. BUT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE SAY TOWN HALL. BUT IF I WANT TO HAVE A CAMPAIGN TOWN HALL AND IT'S A TOWN HALL AND I CALL IT A TOWN HALL, IT DOESN'T APPLY WELL. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? AND EVEN OUT OF MAYBE COMMON COURTESY, WE OUGHT TO PUT IT IN HERE. IF I IF I WERE HOLDING A CAMPAIGN TOWN HALL, I WOULD PROBABLY TELL ALAN I'M HOLDING A TOWN HALL, BUT IT'S CAMPAIGN RELATED. IF YOU GET ANY QUESTIONS. IT'S NOT RELATED TO CITY OFFICIAL BUSINESS. I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT, RIGHT, IS THAT WE SAY NO, THIS IS AN ELECTION EVENT. NOT SO THAT THAT SO THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT IT'S AN ELECTION. YEAH. IF I COULD JUST TAKE A QUICK SECOND. I KNOW WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WHAT IS AND ISN'T CAMPAIGN ACTIVITY. AND SOMETIMES THE LINES ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO DRAW ON THAT. BUT I DO JUST WANT TO PUT OUT A KIND OF A BLANKET REMINDER THAT IT IS PROHIBITED UNDER STATE LAW TO USE TIME, WORKED AS A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE OR PUBLIC RESOURCES FOR CAMPAIGNING. SO KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS. NEXT ONE WILL SAY IT ANYWAY. SO YEAH, I WOULDN'T I WOULDN'T MIND. I SAY I TAKE IT BACK, I MIGHT PUT IT. I WAS GOING TO SAY I WOULDN'T MIND PUTTING A PROHIBITION ON COUNCIL MEMBERS CALLING TOWN HALLS BETWEEN THE FILING PERIOD AND THE ELECTION, IF THEY'RE IF THEY'RE A CANDIDATE. I DON'T KNOW, THOUGH, I, I ALMOST I ALMOST TAKE IT BACK AS SOON AS I SAID IT. WHAT'S THAT? SOUNDS GREAT. WELL, SOMETHING I SAY SHOULD SOUND HAIRY BECAUSE I'M NOT. ANYWAY, I MADE MY LITTLE POINT. I'M. IF IT STAYS THE WAY IT IS, I CAN LIVE WITH THAT, I JUST MADE MY. OKAY. SO AS FAR AS MY UNDERSTANDING AGAIN, I THINK WHERE WE'RE AT NOW IS SEE, JUST THAT'S THE SPECIFICATION THAT IF YOU NEED STAFF ASSISTANCE, THERE MUST BE TWO OR MORE COUNCIL MEMBERS. YEAH. BUT I, I, I PUT IT IN INCORPORATE THAT INTO A JUST SO WE'RE TALKING THAT'S WHAT THE WHOLE SECTION IS ABOUT RIGHT. OKAY. YEAH. THE WHOLE SECTION IS ABOUT A TOWN HALL MEETING THAT REQUIRES STAFF SUPPORT. THAT'S IT'S A CITY. AND IT REQUIRES, AS CURRENTLY DEFINED, IT. THAT'S COOL. OKAY.

YEAH. WE HAVE AT LEAST FOUR IN SUPPORT OF THAT. SO WE HAVE SHELTON JACOB LAMP GREEN AND THE COURT OKAY. THE LAST WORD THAT OKAY. AWESOME. LET'S SEE THE FINAL WORDING BEFORE WE CORRECT.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT. BEFORE WHEN YOU MAKE THIS BEFORE WE PUT IT ON THE AGENDA, JUST SEND IT OUT WAY EARLY SO THAT WE CAN IF THERE'S ANY NEED TO REVISE IT AND DISCUSS IT. YEAH. AND THEN

[01:25:05]

WE PRAY IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN. IT'S MORE IT'S MORE I THINK IF IT'S IF IT'S A VIABLE THING. I DON'T THINK ANY CHAIRPERSON IS GOING TO SAY NO. WE HIT OUR HOUR. WELL, AND IF WE EVER GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT COMES INTO PLAY, WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO WISH WE HAD IT. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S BETTER TO HAVE IT AND SAY AND SAY MOVE TO EXTEND THAT. WE'VE HIT THE 60 MINUTES, BUT IT'S A VIABLE TOPIC THAT WE NEED TO HEAR THE INFORMATION ON AND EXTEND IT THAN THAN HEARING AN HOUR'S WORTH OF THE SAME THING, THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THE PRESIDENT'S RIGHT TO DO THAT. RIGHT. AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PLATFORM FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, EVEN IF THEY'RE SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT'S THEIR RIGHT. AND WE WANT WE NEED TO LET THEM VOICE THAT. BUT THE RESIDENT'S RIGHT IS NOT TO DRAG THE MEETING ON FOR THREE HOURS LIKE THEY'VE DONE WITH SALT LAKE CITY, AND INTERFERE WITH OUR ABILITY TO CONDUCT AN APPROPRIATE MEETING. I DISAGREE WITH THAT. IN YOUR CASE, I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU. SO HOW DO I DO? I WANTED TO ASK, ARE THERE FOUR THAT WE WANT TO DO IT. AND WE DID GET THE FOUR. I MEAN WE'RE NOT VOTING HERE TONIGHT OBVIOUSLY, BUT IF THERE'S NOT FOUR OF US THAT YOU WANT TO INVOLVE THEM, WHY EVEN TALK ABOUT IT? SO I GET IT. WE HAVE THE TIME OR WE'RE THE DOOR GRAINED, FINE LAMINATED. JACOB. YEAH. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO END UP. YEAH. THE VERY TIME THAT WE'RE GOING TO RUN UP AGAINST IT. I THINK IT'S A MECHANISM. YEAH. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE. SO FROM THERE THAT GOES THAT LEADS US INTO THE THAT LEADS US INTO THE LETTER SIGNING UP FOR IT. CORRECT? YES. SO I MEAN WELCOME TO HAVE ANY DISCUSSION YOU WANT AT SOME POINT IF THERE'S TIME PERMITTING, I WAS GOING TO WALK YOU THROUGH BOTH PROCESSES. BOTH GIVE YOU SNAPSHOTS OF THE ONLINE REGISTRATION PROPOSAL AND THE IN PERSON COMMENT CARD. SO I JUST ON THREE FIVE. A, ONE A OR MAYBE THAT'S I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT 1818818 57. THAT'S REGISTER BY FILLING OUT A PUBLIC COMMENT CARD AND SUBMITTING IT TO THE COUNCIL STAFF. I, I DON'T LIKE THAT I'M FINE THAT THEY HAVE TO FILL IT OUT AT SOME POINT. BUT THE WAY THIS READS IS THAT THEY'VE GOT TO DO THIS BEFORE THEY COMMENT AND I DON'T. THAT'S ANOTHER LIMITING TO ME BECAUSE THAT WAS MY GOAL, AND WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS SINCE THE MEETING ON THE 11TH. AND THE CLARIFICATION THERE IS THAT WE'RE THE STAFF WOULD BE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO HELP FACILITATE IN IN THE MOMENT CONVERSATIONS. ALL WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS THAT WHOEVER IS COMMENTING HAS THE COMMENT CARD FILLED OUT, WHETHER THAT'S BEFORE OR AFTER. BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO. NO, YOU'RE RIGHT, WE HAVEN'T REVISED ANYTHING SINCE THE 11TH. BUT WE DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT THAT VERBIAGE IS RIGHT. IT SHOULDN'T BE IN PERSON. IT SHOULDN'T BE RESTRICTED. YEAH. AND THAT WASN'T THE SPIRIT THAT WAS INSTRUCTED TO US. AND IF IT WAS PROVIDED INCORRECTLY IN THAT LAST MEETING, THEN THAT WAS ON THE PROPOSAL, FRANKLY, BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS AFFORD EVERY OPPORTUNITY, I THINK. AND SO I THINK THE WALKTHROUGHS WILL MAYBE PROVIDE SOME CLARIFICATION TO THAT. BUT THERE'S A WAY WE CAN REWORD THAT FOR SURE. AND I THINK I SO THAT DOESN'T IMPLY, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF FEELS LIKE THEY SHOULDN'T DO THE CARDS AT ALL BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DOING THEM AND HASN'T CAUSED A PROBLEM. BUT THE CARDS, THE CARDS, THE CARDS ARE IMPORTANT FOR CINDY, SO THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION FOR THE MINUTES THAT THE CHAIR IS DOING HIS OR HER JOB, ASKING THE PERSON COMMENTING TO GIVE THEIR NAME AND BUT DOESN'T GIVE THEM SPELLING, SPELLING. AND YOU KNOW, I JUST FIND THAT THEY SIGN A PAPER OF SOME SORT THAT SAYS I'M JANE DOE FROM WEST JORDAN.

AND EVEN IF YOU IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO ASK FOR MY EMAIL OR MY PHONE NUMBER AND

[01:30:02]

IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, MY, MY NAME IS JOE MCKAY. HOW DO YOU SPELL MCKAY? MCKAY. MCKAY.

M-O-U-S-E. WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE IS SOMETHING SO THAT CINDY CAN GET THE MINUTES RIGHT. I GET IT, AND NOT GUESSING. AND REALLY, THAT'S THAT FOR ME. THAT'S THAT'S THE SIMPLE TICKET TO SPEAK, IS THAT YOU GIVE US A NAME WITH YOUR SPELLING SO THAT BECAUSE OKEMAH. IF OKEMAH DIDN'T REQUIRE US TO PUT DOWN THE NAMES OF THE PUBLIC AND WHAT THEY TALKED ABOUT IN THE MINUTES, I WOULDN'T CARE. BUT OKEMAH REQUIRES THAT. AND SO I THINK THAT'S JUST A TOOL FOR CINDY AND THE STAFF TO GET THE MINUTES RIGHT. AND THE BONUS FOR THAT IS, IS THAT IT GIVES US THE INFORMATION THAT STAFF CAN FOLLOW UP IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, OR EVEN PUT THEM ON A MAILING LIST AND SAY, YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE THAT'S COMING UP IN A COUNCIL IN SIX WEEKS. SEND THEM AN EMAIL AND SAY, YOU TALKED TO COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. I JUST WANT TO THROW OUT PRE-COVID AND PRE CHANGE AND FORM A GOVERNMENT. ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENT WAS FILLED OUT ON A CARD GIVEN TO THE CITY RECORDER AT THE TIME, AND OR CITY CLERK, AND PASSED TO THE CHAIR, BUT EVERYBODY WHO SPOKE FILL OUT A CARD AHEAD OF TIME. NO NO NO NO, THAT'S NOT ACCURATE. STILL BE MOVED BY THE SPIRIT OF THE MOMENT AND GET UP AND SPEAK WITHOUT HAVING TO FILLED OUT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I DID IT MANY TIMES. HOWEVER, THOSE WHO FILLED OUT A CARD USUALLY GOT TO GO FIRST. YEAH, YEAH. YEP. THEY WENT. BY THE WAY, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU GET STOPPED BY A POLICE OFFICER, YOU HAVE TO SHOW ID, YOU HAVE TO SHOW ID IT'S NOT IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE FOR US TO SAY IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL IN A PUBLIC MEETING IN THIS FORM, WE'RE GIVING YOU A BULLY PULPIT TO SPEAK. IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE FOR US TO WANT TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE. YEAH. AND IF YOU WON'T GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOU GIVE US AN ALIAS OR SOME JOHN DOE OR WHATEVER. AND SO, YOU KNOW, UNLESS WE'RE GOING TO CHECK IDS, WE'LL JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH. BUT FOR A MINUTE, THE LEGISLATURE WAS GOING TO MAKE US SHOW ID TO DROP OUR BALLOT OFF AT THE DROP BOX. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE FOR US TO WANT TO KNOW WHO WE'RE GIVING A BULLY PULPIT TO. WE'RE EVER LIMITING SOMEBODY FROM ADDRESSING THE COUNCIL. THERE'S A MILLION WAYS YOU CAN ADDRESS THE COUNCIL THAT AREN'T BROADCAST TO THE WHOLE CITY. RIGHT. THAT ARE YOU CAN EMAIL US, YOU CAN CALL US. THERE'S A MILLION WAYS FOR YOU TO GET A HOLD OF US. GROCERY STORE, CHURCH. RIGHT. WRITE ME A LETTER. SPRAY PAINT IT ON MY CAR. NO, DON'T DO THAT. THERE'S JUST A MILLION WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO GET AHOLD OF US. BUT I THINK PROVIDING A PULPIT, PROVIDING A FORUM IS DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING WE'RE LIMITING SOMEBODY FROM TALKING TO US. WE'RE NOT.

WE'RE PROVIDING A PUBLIC FORUM FOR THEM TO TALK TO, NOT JUST US, BUT TO THE WHOLE CITY.

RIGHT? YEAH. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE FOR US TO PUT SOME CONSTRAINTS ON THAT. AND THEY'RE MILD. WE'RE NOT REGULATING THIS. YOU KNOW. WE'RE NOT. SO LET ME ASK WHAT IF I WENT UP THERE AND I'M NOT ON THE COUNCIL, I'M GOING UP THERE AS A CITIZEN AND YOU SAY, HEY, PLEASE FILL OUT THE CARD. I SAY, NO, I DON'T WANT TO. DO I MAKE YOU MAKE ME FILL THE TERM? THAT'S THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD HAPPEN. YEAH. GOOD. CAN WE. WE DON'T LIKE TO SAY IT FIRST AND THEN LIKE OR OR THEY COULD TALK AND THEN YOU COULD SAY PLEASE FILL OUT THE CARD. THEY COULD SAY, NO, I'M LEAVING. WALK OUT THE DOOR. WELL THAT'S THEIR RIGHT. WHICH, WHICH COMES BACK TO THE CARDS. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CRY THERE. YOU'RE CREATING A BARRIER TO PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, CHAD. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ALREADY ASKED THEM TO STATE THEIR NAME AND SAY, I AGREE, I SHOULD SAY THAT THEY GO EXTREME. YEAH. THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT TO. I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO REQUIRE SOMEONE TO FILL OUT A CARD. SO. BUT I'M ONE OF SEVEN.

I WOULD BE MORE IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING PEOPLE TO FILL OUT A CARD, GIVING THEM SEVEN REASONS

[01:35:06]

I WOULD I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO REQUIRE WE CAN HAVE IT AVAILABLE, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD SIGN THE CARD ISSUER. YES, HE'S GOING TO PARTICIPATE AGAIN. I THINK IT SHOULD BE A SIGN UP SHEET ON THE SIDES. BUT THAT GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT WHAT IF DURING THE MOMENT, LIKE, OH, I WANT TO GET UP THERE ON THE PULPIT OR YOU GET UP THERE, THEY SAY, SIGN YOUR NAME AND YOU GO WITH IT, WOULD YOU FILL IT? YEAH. YOU CAME UP AND SPOKE AND YOU DON'T HAVE A CARD.

WOULD YOU MIND JUST FILLING OUT THAT YOUR NAME? ARE YOU SAYING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? PUT A SIGN UP SHEET, NOT A CARD. YES. YEAH, YOU CAN DO IT EITHER WAY. ISN'T THAT WAY. IT'S HELPED GET THE CORRECT NAME AT LEAST. YEAH. WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT OTHER ENTITIES DO, I CAN TELL YOU THE WATER DISTRICT, EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM FILLS OUT A CARD. WHAT, ARE YOU GOING TO TALK OR NOT OR ANYTHING? AND YOU COME IN THE ROOM, YOU'RE FILLING OUT A CARD. YEAH. AND IT'S BECAUSE IN THEIR MINUTES, THEY PUT EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE. IN THE MINUTES. THEY HAVE THE ATTENDEES OF HERE'S YOUR TRUSTEES, HERE'S YOUR STAFF, HERE'S YOUR OTHER OTHER, OTHER. I WENT TO AN AIR QUALITY MEETING MINUTES. YEAH. I'M GLAD THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T, BUT I'M JUST SAYING SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS WE WANT COMMENT CARDS. THAT'S FINE FOR US TO HAVE COMMENT CARDS FOR THEM TO FILL OUT IN ADVANCE, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO. AND WHEN THEY COME UP, IF THEY HAVEN'T, WE CAN JUST SAY, WILL YOU SIGN UP, PLEASE JUST SIGN THE SHEET AGAIN. AND IF THEY DON'T SIGN THE SHEET AND STAFF ARE WATCHING, THEY CAN GET THEM AFTERWARDS AND SAY, DO YOU MIND FILLING OUT A CARD? YEAH. AND IF THEY REFUSE, THEY REFUSE. AND IF THEY REFUSE, THERE'S NOT ANYTHING WE'RE GOING TO DO.

RIGHT. SO THEY CAN ALWAYS BE OFFERED THE CARD. BECAUSE WHAT ALL DOES THE CARD SAY I HAVE? SO I'M HEARING THE CARDS. YES. AND THEN A SIGN UP SHEET. BUT IN THE END WE REALLY CAN'T REQUIRE THEM TO DO SO. THE CURRENT RULES DO NOT REQUIRE YOU TO FORCE PEOPLE TO SIGN UP TO SPEAK, UNLESS THERE'S MORE THAT WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION. WE'LL JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF RULES AND A LOT OF STATE LAWS THAT SAY, YOU SHALL DO THIS STUFF, AND THERE'S NO PENALTY OR THINGS IF YOU DON'T. SO THAT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE. THE COUNCILMEMBERS, THE DOOR IS QUITE DRY, AND SEE IF THE PRICE. YEAH, YEAH. WHY NOT? WHY NOT MAKE IT FUN? HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'S RIGHT. BUT, YOU KNOW, COMMENT CARDS IN AND WHOEVER WE DRAW THE NAME OUT OF, YOU WIN.

YOU WIN A, YOU GET A FREE LUNCH WITH THE MAYOR EVERY, EVERY, EVERY, EVERY TIME WE GET UP TO 100 COMMENTS, WHETHER IT'S IN ONE MEETING OR OVER A, YOU KNOW, 15 YEARS. YEAH. WE DRAW A NAME OUT FOR LUNCH WITH THE MAYOR. ALL RIGHT, I LIKE THAT. SO WE COME TO CONSENSUS. MORE PEOPLE WANT CARDS AND A SIGN UP SHEET. I WANT THE DRAWING. THE DRAWING. YOU KNOW WHAT THOUGH? THAT WOULD IT SOUNDS OFF THE WALL, BUT IT WOULD BE KIND OF FUN TO HAVE A DRAWING AT THE END OF THE AT THE END OF A QUARTER AND DRAW A COUPLE OF NAMES AND SAY, HEY, YOU WON THIS PRIZE. AND WE GIVE WE GIVE THEM A $15 GIFT CERTIFICATE TO MCDONALD'S JUST BECAUSE THAT'S ABOUT ALL YOU CAN AFFORD. WELL, WE CAN WE GET ALL KINDS OF DONATIONS FROM BUSINESSES. IT WOULD BE IT WOULD BE A FUN THING TO DO. TAKE A COUPLE OF THOSE GIFT CARDS AND A HALF. THAT'S OKAY. SO WAS THERE ANY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO WAS AGAINST THE CARDS AS AN OPTION? AND THE SIGN UP SHEET? I DON'T WANT TO REQUIRE ANYTHING, BUT I'M NOT ASKING FOR THAT. I'M JUST SAYING IF WE'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT THAT INTO PART OF THE RULES THAT WOULD REQUIRE IN THE OR, YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY, WELL, OKAY, IT'S A, IT'S A PRESENT TENSE WILL. AND DO YOU WANT TO PRIORITIZE THOSE THAT HAVE PROVIDED CARDS. DOESN'T MATTER. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO PUT THAT IN THERE. BUT THAT'S THE CHAIR'S PREROGATIVE. WE'LL STILL DO THAT. I MEAN, IF YOU GET CARDS, THEY'LL STILL GO FIRST, JUST LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE. A CHAIR. HONESTLY, HAVING CHAIR ASSIGNMENT IS BASICALLY FOR THOSE THAT THE ASSIGNMENT IS BASICALLY FOR THOSE THAT NEVER SIGNED UP, THAT COME UP OUT OF THE YEAH, THE SIGN UP SHEET ON THE PULPIT. YEAH. BECAUSE IF YOU'VE ALREADY SIGNED A CARD,

[01:40:04]

IT WOULD BE SILLY FOR THE CHAIR TO GET A STACK OF CARDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE REGISTERED TO SPEAK, WHO HAVE SIGNED UP IN ADVANCE AND NOT CALL THEM FIRST. RIGHT. BECAUSE IF YOU JUST SAY, OKAY, I'VE GOT A STACK OF PEOPLE, BUT IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO SPEAK? I'M JUST GOING TO GO, WELL, I YEAH, ME AND THEY'RE GOING TO GO UP THERE AND YOU'RE GOING TO GO, OH, JOHN SMITH I THINK HE FILLED OUT A CARD. OH YEAH. HERE'S A CARD THAT WAS SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT AS THE CHAIR. YEAH. AND THEN BEFORE WE MOVE ON THE CHAIR. YEAH. YEAH. SO AT THE MEETING ON THE 11TH AND THE PRIOR WORK SESSION, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT REGISTERING TO PURSUE PARTICIPATION. THERE ARE TIMES WHERE WE GET NAMES LIKE IPHONE.

IF NAMES LIKE SAMSUNG THAT SHOW UP ON SIM, THERE IS A PROVISION FOR REGISTERED PEOPLE NAMED SAMSUNG. WANT TO SPEAK FOR REGISTRATION THAT WE USE THAT UP IN ZOOM. YOU CAN USE IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE HOW THAT PROCESS LOOKS SIMILAR TO IN PERSON. IF THEY'RE LISTENING TO A MEETING AND THEN THEY'RE LIKE, THEY WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, THEY CAN STILL DO IT. I STILL WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THEM DO THAT. BUT YOU CAN STILL DO IT. YEAH, THEY CAN STILL DO IT. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THIS MIGHT RUFFLE YOUR FEATHERS, BUT I AM AGAINST ONLINE PARTICIPATION. OKAY. I HAVE A STATEMENT FOR THAT. OKAY. NOW WHILE THE GOAL IS PROMOTING ACCOUNTABILITY IS UNDERSTANDABLE, SUCH A POLICY CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, BOTH PRACTICAL AND LEGAL. AND YES, I KNOW WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS BEFORE, BUT WE DO HAVE IT NOW. AND TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

FROM AN ACCESSIBILITY STANDPOINT, THIS COULD VIOLATE THE PROTECTIONS OF AN INDIVIDUAL WITH DISABILITIES, ARE UNABLE OR FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE APPEARING ON CAMERA. WE ALSO NEED TO CONSIDER ELDERLY RESIDENTS WHO MAY NOT BE COMFORTABLE WITH OR CAPABLE OF OPERATING VIDEO TECHNOLOGY, OR EVEN MAKING IT TO THE MEETING IN PERSON, AS WELL AS THOSE WHO LACK ACCESS TO RELIABLE INTERNET OR WORKING CAMERAS. IMPOSING THIS REQUIREMENT COULD DISPROPORTIONATELY ALSO AFFECT LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS. AND THEN I DO NOT WANT ANY BARRIERS TO PERCEPTION OR. PARTICIPATION. IF RESIDENTS ARE RESTRICTED FROM COMMENTING DURING THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENT, LIKE NOT HAVING A CAMERA, WE CAN BE RISK SEEN AS LIMITING THEIR RIGHT TO BE HEARD AND REQUIRING VIDEO MAY DISCOURAGE PARTICIPATION FROM THOSE WHO WANT TO SPEAK ON SENSITIVE TOPICS. THE VULNERABLE APPEARING ON CAMERA, SUCH AS VICTIMS OF CRIME OR WHISTLEBLOWERS IN PUBLIC FORUMS, SHOULD BE SAFE AND ACCESSIBLE TO ALL. SO EVEN THOUGH WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE CAMERA USE WHERE POSSIBLE BUT NOT ABOUT MAKING IT, BUT NOT MAKING IT A CONDITION FOR PARTICIPATION. BUT YOU MENTIONED SO THE ONE ONE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE POSITION, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW EXACTLY I FEEL ABOUT IT, BUT YOU MENTIONED PUBLIC FORUM ACCESS SHOULD BE, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE WORD, BUT YOU MENTIONED PUBLIC FORUM AND ACCESSING THE PUBLIC FORUM. THE PUBLIC FORUM IS PUBLIC. I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PRIVATELY, ANONYMOUSLY FROM BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TO BE IN THE PUBLIC FORUM. NOT WITHOUT A CAMERA WILL STILL HAVE THEIR INFORMATION. THERE'S EVEN CERTAIN CERTAIN SECTS OF RELIGION WON'T BE ON CAMERA. WELL, RIGHT. BUT HAVE THEY EVER BOUGHT A HOUSE THAT THEY EVER WALKED INTO A BANK? THEY WALKED INTO THE POST OFFICE? YEAH, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A CAMERA. BUT THAT'S NOT BEING BLASTED OUT TO THE PUBLIC. SO IT IS WHEN THEY GO THROUGH A WALMART OR COSTCO. I WAS LOOKING AT THE CHART OF CITIES AROUND US THAT THAT ALLOW VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION AND THOSE THAT DON'T. THERE'S MORE THAT DO NOT ALLOW VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION THAN PUBLIC TO. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY'RE ALL RIGHT AND THAT WE'RE ALL AND THAT WE'RE WRONG OR THAT OR ANYTHING. I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF CITIES. DRAPER.

MIDVALE. MURRAY. SOUTH JORDAN, TAYLORSVILLE, WEST VALLEY CITY, NONE OF THOSE CITIES THAT I JUST NAMED ALLOW VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION. BUT THEY'VE ALSO COME TO US ASKING HOW TO IMPROVE THEIR VIRTUAL REPRESENTATION. SO I THINK THAT'S BEEN CHANGING FROM THE CHART. IT LOOKS LIKE MOST OF THE BIGGER CITIES DO, THOUGH. LIKE AUSTIN. YES, YES. IF THEY'RE ELDERLY, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THIS ACCESS WITH US. BUT BACK TO US. SO I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO SPLIT MY OPINION HERE. OH, I CAN'T GO TO THE PUBLIC FORUM. THE PUBLIC FORUM IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT PART OF THE WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING THAT IS EXPRESSLY HELD UNDER LAW? OKAY. THERE'S NO RIGHT TO HAVE VIRTUAL PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN THE PUBLIC FORUM. COMMENTS OF OUR MEETING. ABSOLUTELY NONE. ADA COMPLIANCE COMES WHEN THEY WALK THROUGH THE DOOR AND THEY

[01:45:06]

[01:50:05]

RIGHT? WE HAVE TO DO A PUBLIC HEARING ON CERTAIN THINGS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO PROVIDE. BUT ALL THIS OTHER STUFF, EVERY MEASURE WE ALLOW IS A MEASURE THAT WE ARE. I DON'T WANT TO SAY THIS LIKE A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR, BUT IT'S KIND OF LIKE A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR. YOU'RE ALLOWING SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO ALLOW IT. AND IF I MAY, TO THAT POINT, WE'VE USED THE TERM PUBLIC FORUM A COUPLE OF TIMES IN THE DISCUSSION HERE.

TECHNICALLY, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, PUBLIC FORUM IS A PHRASE THAT CARRIES A LOT OF SIGNIFICANCE, AND I WOULD PUSH BACK AGAINST THE CHARACTERIZATION OF THIS PUBLIC COMMENT AS BEING A PUBLIC FORUM. THERE ARE OTHER DEFINITIONS THAT I THINK BETTER FIT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, BECAUSE IT IS A TIME WHERE THE CITY IS OPENING THIS UP FOR COMMENT ON CERTAIN TOPICS UNDER CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS, TIME, PLACE AND MANNER RESTRICTIONS. AND SO I THINK THAT'S WORTH KEEPING IN MIND, JUST IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB. SO THAT'S JUST WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS I APPRECIATE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO OVERLY RESTRICT PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN THE MEETING, BUT I ALSO WANT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE NOT THROWING THE DOORS AS WIDE OPEN AS IS FEASIBLE. I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE COULD FEASIBLY PROVIDE. WE DON'T ALLOW SIGNS, CAMPAIGN SIGNS ON THE WELL, FATS AT JORDAN LANDING ACROSS FROM IN AND OUT. REALLY? OH, I DIDN'T KNOW. I'M SORRY. WE DON'T ALLOW CITY ELECTION CAMPAIGN SIGNS. IT SEEMS LIKE THE OTHER GUYS GET AWAY WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THAT WORKS. NOT HERE ANYMORE, SO I. IT SEEMS LIKE THE CITY WANTS TO BE ENFORCED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN THE OTHER GUYS, BUT I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHAT? IF WE DID ALLOW SIGNS UP THERE, WE'D HAVE TO ALLOW ALL THE SIGNS, RIGHT? AND SO. THERE THERE ARE PLACES WE RESTRICT PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE OR WHATEVER THE WORD IS. AND THAT'S OKAY. THE THING IS, WE GOT TO BE CONSISTENT WHEN WE DO PROVIDE IT. SO I MEAN, THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A LINE. WELL LET'S SO LET'S, LET'S GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO GO. SO NUMBER ONE LET'S

[01:55:01]

THAT'S A NOT SO MUCH AS A REQUIREMENT, BUT AS IF WE'RE REQUESTING YOUR INFORMATION. IF YOU REQUIRE, THAT MEANS IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET ON AT ALL, THEY HAVE TO GIVE US SOME INFORMATION THEY CAN STILL GIVE US. INCORRECT INFORMATION OR JUST LEAVE IT. THEY CAN STILL GIVE.

SO BEFORE YOU, I THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION BEFORE YOU MAKE AN INFORMED THOUGHT ON THAT. IF I MAY, COULD YOU JUST ADVANCE TO SO WE MAY HAVE TAKEN IT OUT OR THE BILL DIDN'T PASS, BUT THAT WAS ONE THAT HAD IT IN IT. I DID SEE IT. SO WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT IT.

OKAY. SO ZOOM HAS A SETTING THAT REQUIRES THE REGISTRATION TO GET TO GET THE ZOOM LINK. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN EMAIL THAT THEY GIVE THESE PEOPLE I DON'T LIKE. THAT REALLY HELPED US WITH THIS.

THAT GRAPHIC TO NOTICE. SO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IS THE ZOOM LINK WOULD BE A REGISTERED LINK. IT WOULD GO IN AND YOU WOULD PUT IN A FIRST NAME OR LAST NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS. AND THE CITY, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL HAD ASKED FOR ON THE CARD. SO TRYING TO MATCH THE IN PERSON.

SO YEAH. SO I'M ASKING IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE DOING THIS OR NOT. RIGHT, I STARTED TO TYPEKIT. SO YEAH, WE HAVEN'T STARTED THIS. SO WHAT I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW IN THIS DISCUSSION, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING TO DO. SO DO WE WANT TO DO THIS OR NOT? NOT SO MUCH AS A REQUIREMENT FOR REQUESTING OR STAY AS IS, WHERE PEOPLE CAN ADD OR CAN JOIN A MEETING WITH IPHONE OR WITH DAVE'S IPHONE OR WHATEVER NAME THEY WANT. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION, LIKE FOR THERE IT GOES. ULSTER'S LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE, LPC THAT'S WHAT THEY CALL THEIRS. YEAH, I CAN I CAN FORGET ABOUT THE MEETING BECAUSE I'M NOT ON LPC BUT THEN I CAN REMEMBER, OH IT'S SUNDAY, THEY'RE HAVING THEIR MEETING. IT'S HALFWAY OVER BUT I CAN STILL GO IN AND REGISTER AND BE LET IN IMMEDIATELY. AND THAT WAS THE CASE THERE. AND I AM VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT AND SUPPORTIVE. IN FACT, WHAT IT WILL DO IS IF IT'S AN HOUR BEFORE THE MEETING OR THE START OF THE MEETING. SO AT 3:00 ON A TUESDAY AND ANY TIME DURING THE MEETING, EVEN IF YOU GO TO THE REGISTER LINK, IT HAS THE JOIN NOW AND IT TAKES YOU RIGHT INTO IT. I LIKE THAT, YEAH, I LIKE THIS. I'M GOOD. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE FOUR. AND WE CAN ALSO SET IT UP SO THAT IT SENDS A REMINDER EMAIL AN HOUR OR A DAY BEFORE THE MEETING. A CITY COUNCIL MEETING IS COMING UP TO HELP REMIND THEM THAT THE. SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE CONFIRMATION EMAIL YOU WOULD GET. YOU CAN ADD IT TO YOUR PERSONAL CALENDARS AND WHATNOT. AND THEN ONE HOUR IN ADVANCE YOU GET A REMINDER TO THE PICTURES. AND THEN FOLLOWING THIS VIDEO THING, I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD WITH THE VIDEO. LIKE I'VE BEEN ON ZOOM CALLS FOR THE PAST THREE WEEKS. WITH TRAINING, I CAN TURN MY VIDEO OFF WHENEVER I WANT TO, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO KEEP THEIR VIDEO ON IF THEY CAN JUST TURN IT OFF THEMSELVES. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THREE MINUTES. WELL, IF WE SAY, WELL, WE CAN AND THEY DON'T HAVE WE DON'T HAVE AN ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM. BUT IF WE IF WE CAN'T STOP THE PRAYER OFF, WELL, BECAUSE I WANT TO SET THE EXPECTATION THAT I GET IT, I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO ENFORCE IT. I MEAN, I'LL BE HONEST, THERE'S SOME MEETINGS WHERE I DON'T WANT THE CAMERA ON. I JUST TURN IT OFF. AND THEN THERE'S MEETINGS WHERE I'M REQUIRED TO BE ON THE CAMERA. AND IF I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, I GET MAD. THE OTHER THING YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF WITH ZOOM IS THIS IS A BINARY CHOICE. SO IF WE DO REGISTRATION, IF ANY CITY STAFF WANTS TO PARTICIPATE ON ZOOM, THEY WOULD HAVE TO REGISTER.

IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, PICK AND CHOOSE. IT'S I'M GUESSING JUST JUST LEAVE THE WHOLE VIDEO TALK OUT OF IT BECAUSE WE CAN'T CONTROL THE VIDEO. SO RIGHT NOW WITH RULES, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO TURN YOUR CAMERA ON. SO. FOR THAT I CAN'T STOP AND TURN IT OFF IF I PUT IT IN THERE. I MEAN, THE THEORY IS, IS THAT IF THEY TURNED OFF THE CAMERA, YOU COULD YOU COULD DISCONNECT. I'D RATHER HAVE THEM HAVE IT ON LIKE A CERTAIN PERSON THAT CALLS IN ALL THE TIME. YES.

ALL RIGHT. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF WE HAVE IT IN THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE STEPS, RIGHT? WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN TO SPEAK, TURN YOUR CAMERA ON AND DO THIS, AND YOU'RE ALLOWED THREE MINUTES. IF THEY REFUSE, I WAS CHEERED PREROGATIVE. WHETHER YOU ALLOW THEM TO DO IT OR NOT. RIGHT. BUT. BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE IT IN THERE AS AN EXPECTATION. LIKE WE WANT YOU TO HAVE YOUR CAMERA AND CONCERN OF US BEING ABLE TO TURN OFF THE CAMERAS. THAT. IS THAT RESOLVED. I THINK WE CAN TURN OFF THE CAMERA. WE CAN TURN OFF THEM. YES. LEWD ACTS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY THEY COULD DO THE SAME THING IN CHAMBERS, RIGHT? THEY COULD BRING A POSTER IN AND MANY COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE HAD THAT HAPPEN, BUT THEN THEY'RE JUST TOLD THEY HAVE TO LEAVE. WELL, YES. ALLEN AND WARREN AND SOMEBODY TURN OFF THE CAMERA. SO WE NEEDED TO. AND WE

[02:00:03]

THE ONLY REASON WE WERE GOING TO PROMOTE THEM TO PANELIST IS BECAUSE THE REQUEST ON THE 11TH WAS TO HAVE CAMERAS, CAMERAS. SO YOU GUYS SEE IT ON YOUR SIDE, YOU SEE THEM SPEAK. HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE THEIR CAMERA ON? WELL, NOT STILL, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T WE DON'T PROMOTE ANYBODY UNDER UNDER THE CURRENT UNDER THE CURRENT PROCESS WE DON'T PROMOTE. HONESTLY, I'D SAY KEEP THEM AS ATTENDEES. IT'S LESS WORK, RIGHT? WHOLE DISCUSSION ABOUT CAMERAS AND RIGHT. AND YOU'RE BECAUSE THEN THERE'S MORE WORK BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT TO PROMOTE THEM TO PANELISTS. YOU GOT TO TAKE THEM OUT OF PANELIST ACCOUNT. AND THEN AND THEN DEPENDING ON THE SETTING, WE'D HAVE TO JUST WATCH THE SETTINGS, BECAUSE YOU GOT ALSO DON'T WANT A PANELIST TO BE ABLE TO SHARE THEIR SCREEN BECAUSE THERE IS A I SAY KEEP THEM AS A TEN. BUT IF WE IF WE REMOVE IF WE DIDN'T IMPLEMENT THE REQUIREMENT TO TURN YOUR CAMERA ON, WE WOULD LEAVE THEM AS ATTENDEES. THERE'D BE NO REASON TO PROMOTE THEM. AND THEN I THINK THAT'S A BETTER WAY TO DO IT. SEEMS THE CAMERA DISCUSSION. YEAH. DO WE HAVE A THING WHERE TWO PEOPLE IN THE SAME HOUSE USE, YOU KNOW, USING JUST THE SAME LAPTOP? SO DO THEY HAVE TO? RECENTLY WE'VE HAD A INDIVIDUAL WHO USED HIS WIFE'S NAME, AND HE'S THE ONE WHO SPOKE. SO WE CALLED HIS WIFE'S NAME WHO WAS ON THE SCREEN, BUT IT WAS IN THE SMOKE. YEAH, THAT'LL HAPPEN BECAUSE ON ZOOM. YEAH, BUT LOGGED IN. BUT WHAT IF SO YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, HUSBAND AND WIFE BOTH WANT TO SPEAK THEIR THREE MINUTES. DOES ONE HAVE TO LIKE LOG OUT AND THEN ANOTHER PERSON TO LOG IN. NO, THEY WOULD JUST RAISE THEIR HAND. WE'D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DIFFERENTIATE. THEY CAN CHAT WITH US. THEY'D HAVE TO CHAT. MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE IT NEEDS TO KIND OF BE PUT IN OR, YOU KNOW. YEAH. BUT JUST BECAUSE THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I COULD COME UP WITH. YES. YES, I CAN SEE THAT ON THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S A COMMUNITY THING WHERE EVERYONE WANTS TO TALK. AND THIS WAS A WAY TO GET SIX MINUTES TO HAVE BOTH ME AND MY WIFE BOTH SPEAK. SO PROBABLY HAVE TO DO THAT. WELL, WE'LL FIGURE OUT LOGISTICALLY THAT'S THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE ON HERE. AND IF MORE THAN ONE PERSON IS GOING TO USE THIS ACCOUNT THAT NEEDS TO BE CONVEYED TO US THROUGH CHAT OR SOMETHING, NOW CAN I DO YOU MIND, CAN YOU GO TO THE SCREEN? DO YOU WANT TO JUST TALK ABOUT THESE. THESE. YEAH. SO THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN TUNE IN.

AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE I CONFUSE COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK LAST TIME IS THAT THIS IS NOT THE AGENDA YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING. THIS WOULD BE POTENTIALLY IMPLEMENTED FORWARD AFTER YOU TOOK ACTION ON IT IN AN UPCOMING CITY COUNCIL MEETING. BUT IN ANY AGENDA YOU WOULD SEE PARTICIPATE IN MEETING, WHICH IS TO APPLY IF YOU WANT TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT OR IF YOU WANT TO SIMPLY VIEW THE MEETING AND NOT GO THROUGH THEM, OR NOT GO THROUGH THE HASSLE OF GIVING YOUR INFORMATION, YOU WOULD TAKE THE VIEW OF THE MEETING OPTION WHICH WOULD TAKE YOU TO SWAGGIN. NO, NO SIGN UP, NO REGISTRATION REQUIRED. YOU SIMPLY GO TO THAT LINK. WHEN THE MEETING IS STARTED IN THE GRAY AREA, YOU SEE THE LIVE FEED. YOU CAN SEE THE AGENDA. VERY INTERACTIVE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION AT ALL. IT'S JUST PAGE. AND THEN IF THEY DECIDE THEY WANT TO TALK AND THEY GO THROUGH THE ZOOM. REGISTRATION PROCESS IN THERE TOO. YEAH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO POTENTIALLY ADD ONE. YEAH. YEAH I'D SAY IT WOULD BE ODD ONE. I WOULD SAY YEAH. WE'LL LOOK INTO ADDING A LINK TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EVENT THEY

[02:05:05]

SO EVEN THOUGH FRONT SIDE BACK SIDE IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. SO THIS WOULD BE ON EVERY PUBLIC COMMENT CARD WE NEED TO MAKE IT. I'M JUST ADDING MY WORD. BUT DO WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT SO SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO TALK DOESN'T HAVE TO WRITE OUT EVERYTHING I WOULD CORRECT? YEAH. OKAY. SO MAYBE WE CAN ADD I WOULD THINK, OH MAN, NOW THEY WANT ME TO WRITE IT ALL OUT. NOW I GOT TO DO THAT. I CAN'T WRITE THREE MINUTES WORTH OF TALK HERE. SO THE UNDER WRITTEN COMMENTS, ALL THAT SAYS IS PLEASE PROVIDE COMPLETED CARD WITH YOUR NAME AND CONTACT INFO TO THE COUNCIL OFFICE STAFF AND THAT TELLS YOU WHERE YOU CAN FIND IT. IF YOU JUST HAVE A PREFERRED NOT TO SPEAK, PLEASE WRITE OUT THE YES, WHAT I WOULD WHAT I WOULD DO IS THAT LINE THAT SAYS TO SUBMIT WRITTEN COMMENTS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON THE BACK. WHAT YOU'VE GOT IS DO THE SAME THING THAT YOU'VE ALREADY DONE. I WISH TO SPEAK BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M HERE REGARDING PUBLIC. I WANT TO PROVIDE WRITTEN COMMENTS THAT ARE ON THE BACKSIDE OF THIS FORUM, AND THEY CHECK IT AS ONE OF THE THREE OPTIONS. THAT'S WHERE I FEEL THOSE LITTLE ASTERISKS ARE THE QUOTATION MARKS ON THE TO SUBMIT. NOBODY READS THAT. NOBODY READS ASTERISKS. NO, BUT I WAS JUST GOING. I THOUGHT IT WAS QUOTATION MARKS. I'M LIKE, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THAT? AIR QUOTES. YEAH. THANK YOU. YEAH. THAT'S IT. YEAH I WOULD JUST MAKE IT A THIRD. I WOULD JUST MAKE IT A THIRD. YEAH. THIRD CHOICE AS TO NOT IMPLY THAT YOU HAVE TO MATCH YOUR COMMENTS TO THAT. RIGHT. OH WOW. AND IN FACT YOU MIGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY IT INSTEAD OF MARK THAT I'LL APPLY. YOU HAVE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR COMMENTS TONIGHT AND TELL THEM CHOOSE ONE OR OKAY. YEAH WE CAN WE'LL LOOK AT THAT. JUST LOOK AT THAT.

REVISING IT WITH NO LONGER DOING THE REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT OKAY. BUT THAT'S IT FOR THAT TOPIC. GREAT. THANK YOU. SO JUST A JUST A QUICK RECAP OF WHAT WE JUST DID. SO THIS THIS WAS OUR SECOND TIME GOING THROUGH IT. SO I THINK WE'VE GOT WHAT WE NEED FOR THE NEXT MEETING TO MAKE A VOTE. AND I'M NOT SAYING IF YOU'RE AGAINST ONE OF THE THINGS THEN VOTE AGAINST IT. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. AND WE BOTH HAVE OUR VOTE. SO AND DON'T BE AFRAID TO SAY WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT. WHY YOU'RE NOT VOTING. BUT THIS SHOULDN'T COME BACK TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. AGAIN, I THINK. I AGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS GREEN REQUEST. WE'LL GET THE REVISIONS TO YOU AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, EVEN IF THAT'S BEFORE THE AGENDA ACTUALLY IS POSTED.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE GOT ABOUT 20 MINUTES. SO AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, WE WERE GOING TO DISCUSS COUNCIL PRIORITIES IF WE HAD TIME, WHICH WE DO. BUT I WANT TO DO A QUICK FOLLOW UP FOR THE COMING UP MEETING. SO FOR THE APRIL 8TH MEETING FOR THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE INSTEAD OF COUNCIL PRIORITIES, WE WILL DO BUDGET. WHAT WE DID, BUDGET DESIRES, PRELIMINARY BUDGET DISCUSSION, PRELIMINARY BUDGET DISCUSSION. SO LAST YEAR, THE TURN THE TURNOUTS CAME UP, A NEW PERSON FOR BROCK CAME UP KIND OF OUT OF THE BLUE. SO IF YOU'RE HAVING ANYTHING LIKE THAT THIS TIME, LET'S DISCUSS THAT NEXT MEETING SO THAT WHEN WE DO COME TO THE BUDGETS, THE OTHER SIX OF US KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE THINKING AS FAR AS OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO TURN OUT AGAIN THIS TIME, BUT IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO THROW OUT THAT YOU KNOW I'LL KNOW ABOUT? I KNOW WHAT MY TWO ARE, BUT YEAH, THAT'S FINE. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT TIME. SO WE DON'T DO COUNCIL PARTIES IN THE NEXT COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE WE'LL DO BUDGETS. AND THEN WE DO HAVE WE DO HAVE THE MEETING FOR COUNCIL PRIORITIES ON THE 29TH, WHICH IS THE LAST TUESDAY OF APRIL. THAT IS A MEETING THAT WE CAN CANCEL IF WE DON'T WANT TO DO IT. SO JUST

[c. Discussion of Council Priorities]

[02:10:01]

SO ONE OF MY PRIORITIES WAS THE RODEO GROUNDS. IS IT A PRIORITY. PROBABLY NOT THIS YEAR. SO IS IT ONE WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS TODAY? NO. BUT OBVIOUSLY WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE RODEO GROUNDS.

IT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IS MORE OF A PRIORITY THAN FIXING THE RODEO GROUNDS? BEARSVILLE ACROSS THE STREET. RIGHT, PAMELA? PUT IN THE MIDDLE OF JORDAN LAND. WE ARE 50% THERE. NO, IT'S GOING RIGHT OVER THERE. EVEN EVEN FURTHER, CLOSER TO THE RIVER. OKAY. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD. BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING LIKE THE WOMAN. WE'RE TALKING LIKE THE ONE I. LIKE. THE ONE IN LONDON. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. THIS. ONE ACTUALLY ONE. THERE'S ONE IN JAPAN, BUT THEY'RE SAYING WHERE THEY GET RID OF IT FOR I THINK THERE'S. YOU CAN RENT IT FOR A HOME. REALLY? YEAH. LIKE THOSE BIG ONES ARE HOW BIG THEY ARE. I MEAN THEY'RE KIND OF NO, THEY'RE BIGGER THAN CHURCHILL'S AND THEY'RE MORE ENCLOSED. IT'S ALL ENCLOSED, MORE LIKE THAT. SO ONCE AGAIN, FAIRGROUNDS FERRIS WHEEL. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE PRIORITY THIS YEAR, BUT I'M GLAD THEY'RE ON THE DOCKET. COME ON. WHO WANTS TO MAKE SOME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? I KNOW I DON'T WANT A BIG STATUE LIKE THE ONE IN DRAPER. THAT TRADER JOE'S, COSTCO, AND THE STEAKHOUSE. ISN'T THAT ECONOMIC? STATUTES? WHAT'S THAT, A STATUE? OKAY, WELL, YOU KNOW. NO, NO, I WANT A DRAPER. LIKE, A BIG HAND THING WITH TWO HANDS THAT ARE. OH, I THOUGHT THEY KILLED THEM.

WELL, I'M SURE THEY'RE STILL OKAY. DRAPER. OKAY, WHAT DO YOU GOT HERE? WE TALKED ABOUT IDENTITY AND GENERAL COMMUNICATION. WHAT, WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT SOMETHING TO YOU? THAT WAS THE VISION CONVERSATION, WHICH YOU'RE NOT. YEAH. NOT HAVING THE VISION CONVERSATION. I JUST WANTED TO FOCUS ON MORE IMMEDIATE, MORE IMMEDIATE MORE. BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE THE VISION, WHAT WE THEN THE IMMEDIATE STUFF DOESN'T. WE'RE MAKING STUFF OUT OF THESE VIDEOS TALKING ABOUT VISION, AND IT HASN'T GONE ANYWHERE. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. THAT'S I THOUGHT THAT'S WHY WE HAD THIS HOMEWORK. I GOT A VISION STATEMENT OR GENERAL IDEA FROM FIVE. I MEAN, WITHOUT A VISION STATEMENT, YOU CAN'T DEVELOP. EVERYTHING ELSE WAS TALKING ABOUT VISION. SO ARE YOU READY FOR THAT? WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT. YEAH. CITY CELEBRATIONS OR VIDEOS. OKAY. NOPE. I'M READY. OKAY. SOME OF YOU PREPARED SOME ACTUAL VISION STATEMENT. SOME OF YOU JUST THREW IDEAS. WHICH PEOPLE. YES. THIS IS BRINY. YEP. DON'T BE SO SALTY. THAT WAS A SALTY COMMENT, IF YOU ASK ME. NO, NOBODY'S PICKING UP ON IT, SO I GOT IT.

WE JUST MOVED ON FROM IT. I SAID, I MEAN, JESUS. I THINK OTHER PEOPLE. IT'S INTERESTING THAT THERE'S. THERE ARE SOME COMMON WORDS IN THERE. YOU LOOK AT THE ONE IN THE UPPER LEFT, THE WEST JORDAN ELEVATED. IT USES THE WORD THRIVING COMMUNITY, THE ONE UNDERNEATH THAT TALKS ABOUT THRIVING COMMUNITY, THE ONE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT TALKS ABOUT WELCOMING COMMUNITY. SO WHAT IS WELCOMING AND INVITING? I THINK THERE'S SOME COMMON THEMES THERE. YOU HAVE A WORD CLOUD. WHICH ONE WOULD BE IS. SO WHAT WOULD WE DEFINE AS A THRIVING? NOT DETROIT. YEAH. NOT DETROIT. THRIVING, I WOULD THINK CHARACTERISTICS OF A THRIVING COMMUNITY WOULD BE A LOW VACANCY. RATE ABOUT DETROIT. YOU KNOW AND THAT'S THE RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. YEAH. INTERESTING THAT THE WORD VIBRANT IS USED A COUPLE OF

[02:15:03]

LIVE WORK AND PLAY IS A COMMON THEME. BETWEEN A LOT OF THINGS, RIGHT? YEAH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE MOSTLY WITH INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING, OPEN SPACES. TO ME THAT'S LIVE, WORK AND PLAY. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU GOT TO DO? PUT THIS INTO CHATGPT OR, YOU KNOW, PUT IT INTO GEMINI. I WANT TO MAKE SOME. I THROW IT INTO AI AND SAY, TAKE THESE FIVE THINGS AND GENERATE. CAN'T DO IT ON OUR OWN. WHAT'S THAT? WHAT'S THAT? I MAKE IT UP FOR US. COME ON. IT'D BE FUN TO SEE WHAT THAT WOULD BE. FUN TO SEE WHAT I WOULD DO. TAKING ALL OF THOSE AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER. I CAN GET AROUND TO. I TRIED HAVING I DO THE WEST JORDAN THING, I DO, I TAKE OUT ANYTHING SPECIFIC TO WEST JORDAN, WHICH IS LIKE ROASTING CITIES IN GENERAL, REALLY. I SAID, WHAT ABOUT THIS IS UNIQUE TO US, JORDAN AS WELL? NOTHING. WE COULD HAVE. MARIE, WORDSMITH, ALL OF THOSE FOR US. THIS ONE YOU PROBABLY CHECK. WEST JORDAN ELEVATED THE OTHER ONE REALLY SUPPORTS THE VIBRANCY, RIGHT? WELL, INVISIBLE. YEAH. THEY'RE ALL GOOD BUZZWORDS THAT WE USE. WE TOSS AROUND A LOT THAT PROVIDE A VISION. THEY'RE FAR TOO NEBULOUS. YEAH, WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO. IF WE SAY THAT SOME OF IT'S NEBULOUS, BUT THE VISION IS THE WEST JORDAN IS A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE, WORK, PLAY. YOU WANT TO STAY HERE? WE'VE GOT A TRACK WELCOMING THEN THAT HELPS DRIVE DESTINATION, DESTINATION THAT HELPS DRIVE SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS. HOW DOES THAT TIE, HOW DOES THAT TIE INTO WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE WHAT WHAT DO WE WANT FROM OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT MAKES US A VIBRANT, THRIVING, WELCOMING COMMUNITY? WELCOME BACK TO TRADER JOE'S STEAKHOUSE. THAT'S WHAT I SAID. LAST MEETING IS IT'S YOU LOOK AT WHAT DOES WHAT DOES A THRIVING COMMUNITY LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES IT WELCOMING? WHAT DOES A LIVE WORK PLAY? AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU. WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE. AND THAT'S AND I THINK THAT'S THE NEXT STEP IS WHAT DOES IN THOSE 10 OR 12 PRIORITIES. WHAT DOES OUR I THINK THOSE 10 OR 12 THINGS DEFINE WHAT THRIVING, VIBRANT, WELCOMING, REGIONAL DESTINATION ARE. YEAH. AND SO IF WE COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING HERE, THEN WHEN WE GO THROUGH THOSE OTHER ONES, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT HELPS US DEFINE. SO JUST JUST A THOUGHT. THIS IS THIS IS FUN TO SIT AND LISTEN TO. AS A RESOURCE. THE COUNCIL HAS ALREADY GONE THROUGH THESE MENTAL GYMNASTICS AND PUT IT IN YOUR GENERAL PLAN. SO IF THIS IS CHANGED, THAT SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WHATEVER IS CHANGED FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS REFLECTED IN THE GENERAL PLAN. YEAH, I THINK AT THE END, WHAT IS THE GENERAL PLAN? SAY, SCOTT, THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF WORDS, WAY TOO MANY. I THINK YOU COULD TEAR THAT DOWN. YEAH. I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, ONCE WE'VE KIND OF COALESCED AROUND SOMETHING, I THINK THE GENERAL PLAN WILL NEED A PUT IT IN THERE. YEAH. TO TWEAK AND MASSAGE IT. YEAH.

SOMETHING. AND WE HAVE TO UPDATE THE GENERAL PLAN PARTLY THIS YEAR ANYWAY. SO IF WE DON'T GET BEHIND. SO THAT MAY BE TAKING THIS AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE USE TO INCORPORATE IN THE GENERAL PLAN CHANGE. THE PLAN ENVISION HAVE TO BE SOMETHING I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THE COSTCO, WE WANT THE TRADER JOE'S, WE WANT THOSE THINGS, BUT A STEAKHOUSE. BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE US A VISION. THAT'S GOING TO MAKE US LIKE THE OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE THOSE THOSE SAME THINGS. I MEAN, IN SOUTH JORDAN, THAT'S GETTING THE LONGHORN STEAKHOUSE. SO THEY WERE LIKE, CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY STEAK. IT'S LIKE, THAT'S THAT'S A THAT'S A PRETTY BLAH STEAK. WHY HAVE WE GOT A STEAK I GUESS RECORD WHOEVER HAD THAT THEY WERE LIKE CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY STEAK. I WAS LIKE, I KNOW WEST VALLEY. YEAH, I DON'T I DON'T GO TO LONGHORN STEAKHOUSE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A GOOD STEAKHOUSE. THAT'S THAT WOULDN'T SOLVE MY NEED FOR WANTING A STEAKHOUSE, A CONTAINER CONTAINER SHOPPING DISTRICT. WE

[02:20:06]

[02:25:04]

BUT WHAT? MY PARENTS. I LIVE IN NO MAN'S LAND, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'RE IN BETWEEN TWO CITIES. YOU DON'T LIVE IN EITHER ONE. I KNOW THAT WOULD BE EXACTLY RIGHT. BUT THE WEST SIDE IS NOW GETTING STUFF THAT THEY WEREN'T GETTING BEFORE, SO I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE OKAY.

WELL DEVELOPED NOW BECAUSE BEFORE THERE WAS NOTHING OUT THERE. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.

IS IT EASIER TO DRIVE STRAIGHT NORTH OR STRAIGHT EAST THAN IT IS TO GO DOWNTOWN? NO, IT'S NOT EASY TO DRIVE EAST OR WEST. YOU GOT TO GO EAST REGARDLESS. I JUST WONDER, YOU GUYS, I PROMISE IT TOOK ME AN HOUR TO GET TO MY DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT AT 9 A.M. THIS MORNING. SO YOU TELL ME THAT. EASY. YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AN HOUR EARLY FOR THAT GOING UP THERE. AND I HOPE YOU'RE NOT LATE. YES, THIS IS A LONG WAY FROM MY HOUSE, BUT IT'S. YOU KNOW WHAT? IT'S CLOSE TO MIDVALE, AND IT'S CLOSE TO SANDY. AND IT'S CLOSE. TAYLORSVILLE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? I'D RATHER TAKE THEIR TAX DOLLARS WHEN THEY GET THEIR MONEY THAN THE PEOPLE OF WEST BANK, RIGHT? I MEAN, IF IT'S OUT BY MY HOUSE OR IF IT'S HERE, TAX DOLLAR STAYS IN WEST JORDAN. IF YOU'RE A TAX PAYING. BILL, HOW MUCH WOULD IT IS TO COMBINE THAT GET THIS KNOCKED OUT OF THE WAY? IT'S NOT VERY MUCH THAT OH I JUST DON'T SEE IT HAVING A HUGE EFFECT. I THINK THIS DISCUSSION I THINK I THINK THAT WARREN WILL BE ABLE TO PUT THAT IN SOME KIND OF A THING. IT'S THAT WAS MY QUESTION. IS THERE INTEREST IN PURSUING AN ACTUAL VISION STATEMENT, IN WHICH CASE WE CAN WORK WITH THE MAYOR AND STAFF AND COME BACK WITH SOME, SOME GENERALLY? I MEAN, YOU SEE THE KEY CONCEPTS. YES, YES. REFERENCING THE GENERAL PLAN, REFERENCING OTHER RELEVANT DOCUMENTATION TO COME BACK. I THINK HAVING A STATEMENT IS OUR FIRST THING WE GOT TO DO. YEAH.

VISION IS ALWAYS THE BASELINE. BUT THEN IF WE GO TO WHAT WE WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT AND WE HAVE 3 OR 4 MINUTES LEFT, IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, I THINK THAT SEGUES REALLY EASILY INTO THIS BECAUSE WE DO OWN SOME OF THE PROPERTY. RIGHT. TWO PARCELS, COUPLE ACRES THERE LIKE TWO ACRES. AND WE CAN WORK WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. IF WE START IT THEN IT WILL. WELL, SO HERE'S THE QUESTION. HERE'S THE QUESTION. IF WE WANT TO SPUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ON THAT CORNER, WHICH I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES WE DO, DO WE NEED TO TAKE THE HOW DO WE AND WE NEED MR. DOBBINS TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN USE THEM OR TOO MUCH OF OUR RDA MONEY AS POSSIBLE AND DUMP IT THERE. HOW CAN WE USE IT FROM OTHER AREAS AND LEGALLY USE IT AND PARTNER WITH BUSINESSES? AND WHAT OTHER WHAT OTHER FUNDING SOURCES ARE AVAILABLE? AND HOW DO WE USE OUR TWO ACRES TO HELP TRIGGER THAT? I'VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH CORBIN, WITH DAVID ABOUT THAT PROPERTY OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS. RIGHT. AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, WELL, YOU CAN LET WELL, DAVID'S POSITION.

BUT IT ALWAYS COMES UP WITH, WELL, THE WAITING FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO DO IT IS YOU'RE AT THE MERCY OF WAITING FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO DO IT. IT'S NEVER GOING TO SPEED IT UP.

IS IT GOING TO REQUIRE SOME PUBLIC? PRIVATE? IDEAS? WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT? AND WE NEED ADAM GARDNER ON BOARD AND WE NEED THEM ON BOARD AFTER ADAM LOW HEALTH CARE. RIGHT. YEAH. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO START, LIKE WEST VALLEY DID WITH FAIRBOURNE STATION AND START SMALL. BUT THAT MAY BE OUR TWO ACRES TO GO TO THE UTA LOT NEXT TO IT. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING SOUTH OF THE ENTRANCE, THE SOUTH OF THAT STREET, THE ENTRANCE. AND WE DO. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CONTAINER PARK. THERE YOU GO. THIS IS. THIS IS IN NO WAY ANYTHING MORE THAN JUST HYPOTHETICAL, OKAY? NOT BINDING, NOT ANYTHING. BUT CAN I ASK A SENSE OF. I WANT TO GET A SENSE OF LEVEL OF COMMITMENT FOR MOVING THE NEEDLE ON THE PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET. THE BIGGEST BARRIER TO MOVING THE NEEDLE ON THE PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET IS RELOCATING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S FACILITIES. THAT'S ON THE ORDER OF MAGNITUDE OF $30 MILLION THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, GIVE OR TAKE. BUT LAND CONSTRUCTION, SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THEIR REFRIGERATION CAPABILITIES IS $30 MILLION. THAT IS A BIG LIFT. THAT'S A IF WE WERE TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD

[02:30:02]

THERE'S OTHER PLACES IN THE CITY MAYBE EASIER TO START. THIS IS THE MOST VISIBLE. IT'S THE MOST TIED TO OUR IDENTITY BECAUSE OF ITS PROXIMITY TO CITY HALL, BECAUSE OF ITS PROXIMITY TO TRAX, REDWOOD ROAD AND 78. BUT IT'S ALSO ONE OF THE MORE DIFFICULT TO DO BECAUSE OF THE ASSEMBLAGE OF PROPERTY. LET ME ASK THIS HOW MUCH DOES THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT GONE UP FROM? FROM COUNCIL AFTER COUNCIL AFTER COUNCIL SAYING, NO, THAT'S TOO MUCH. AND WHAT ABOUT THE DISTRICT DOES NOT UTILIZE ALL OF THAT SPACE THAT THEY OWN. SO HAVE WE APPROACHED THEM TO CONSOLIDATE? WELL TO BUY, TO DO SOME OF THE THINGS LIKE START SOUTH AND GIGGLE OUR WAY TO THE NORTH? YEAH, YEAH, THERE ARE SOME POSSIBILITIES, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK IT'S ALL THAT MUCH DAY ONE, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF THE SCALE OF COMMITMENT THAT COUNCIL, WHEN WE SAY WE WANT TO DO THIS, HOW BAD DO WE WANT IT? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO. SO LET ME LET ME GIVE YOU A THOUGHT. HOW DIFFICULT IS IT. AND I DON'T KNOW THE COST. SO I'M JUST A HYPOTHETICAL. AGAIN. THERE'S TWO ACRES PLUS A PIECE OF PROPERTY. YOU MEAN TWO ACRES? ARE OUR PROPERTY COMBINED IS ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE. LESS THAN ONE. I THOUGHT IT WAS TWO ACRES TO GET. I THINK IT WAS A THIRD AND A HALF. THERE'S TWO. THERE'S TWO. TWO. LOTS OF LOTS, NOT TWO.

OKAY, ANYWAY, THERE'S OUR PROPERTY AND THERE'S THE UTA IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH. YEAH.

IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD GET A BUILDING BUILT? THAT GOES UP THAT JORDAN SCHOOL DISTRICT PUTS ALL THEIR CLASSIFIED PEOPLE IN, WHILE THEY'RE ALSO BUILDING A BUILDING OUT AT ALL. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE GETTING TOO DEEP. BUT BUT YOU SEE, WHERE I'M GOING IS, DO WE HAVE THAT CREATIVE BEFORE YOU GET INTO THOSE KIND OF WEEDS, WHAT'S YOUR WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO CORBETT'S QUESTION ABOUT, ARE WE $30 MILLION COMMITTED? I DON'T FIND $30 MILLION COMMITTED, BUT I'M INTO SOMETHING COMMITTED.

I'M INTO SOMETHING COMMITTED. WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING. I'M ALL IN. WHATEVER IT TAKES. I DON'T WANT TO BE ANOTHER COUNCIL THAT FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S LIKE IT'S NOW 36 MILLION. ARE YOU THAT. IT'S NOW 45 MILLION? ARE YOU? IT'S JUST LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE DONE IT WHEN IT WAS.

AND I'M AND I THINK I THINK A BOND IS THE BIGGEST WAY TO GO WITH THAT AND TO ACCELERATE THAT WHEN THE PUBLIC WORKS BOND IS PAID OFF, YOU HAVE NOW MORE TIME. WHEN'S THE I'D LIKE IT TO BE INCREMENTAL. I THINK THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE CAN DO IT. DOING NOTHING, I THINK, IS NOT THE OPTION, BUT I THINK WE COULD DO IT INCREMENTAL, AND I THINK WE COULD GET THE DISTRICT TO SELL US THE PROPERTY IN THE FRONT THAT THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH. AND THEY DON'T. WE BETTER NOT IF THEY DON'T WANT TO REDO THAT PARKING LOT AND THEY HAVEN'T. AND IT'S A GOOD TIME TO APPROACH THE DISTRICT ABOUT SOME OF THE WESTERN PROPERTY, BECAUSE THE, BECAUSE THE, THE ASPHALT IS FAILING AND ALL THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO. HEY, I'M SCOTT THOMAS ON SPEED DIAL. I TALKED TO HIM JUST TODAY. WE TALKED TO THE DISTRICT OFTEN TO THE POINT OF THEY'RE TIRED OF US TALKING ABOUT IT. THIS SITE, THEY FUNDED THIS KIND OF THING THAT I WAS GOING TO USE

[02:35:04]

WELL, WELL, THE THING THAT FREAKED ME OUT WAS THE 25% PROPERTY TAX INCREASE. AS I THINK ABOUT MY AVERAGE NEIGHBOR, THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT CITY CENTER. YEAH. AND SO THEY'LL BE HAPPY WHEN IT'S DONE. I'M SORRY. I'M WORRIED THE WEST SIDE DOESN'T GIVE A CRAP EITHER.

ACTUALLY, I THINK I THINK. THEY I WELL, I'M, I'M ONE OF THE WEST SIDE. I'M THE WEST. MAYBE HE DOESN'T QUALIFY EITHER. WHAT I'M SAYING IS I PREACHED THIS LOUD AND PROUD AND EVERYTHING THAT I CAMPAIGNED ON, AND I GOT 65% OF THE VOTE. SO IF THEY DON'T CARE, THIS WAS MY ONLY CAMPAIGN ISSUE, WAS THAT I'M SURE YOU'LL FIND A LOT OF PEOPLE. I GOT 65 OUTSIDE. SO JUST LIKE YOU SAID, DON'T CARE ABOUT CITY CENTER. SURE, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T CARE, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HAPPY WHEN IT HAPPENS. AND EVERYBODY I'VE TALKED TO HAS SAID, WHY HAVEN'T WHY HASN'T ANYTHING HAPPENED THERE? WHY? YEAH. WHY IS IT STILL EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO? I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THAT. IT'S NOT A GOOD DEAL. RIGHT. SO WHY HAVEN'T WE? BECAUSE WE SCREWED IT UP AND NEVER MIND. AND WE HAVEN'T PUT A COHESIVE VISION TOGETHER BEFORE RECENTLY. SO.

BUT CORBIN WAS I THINK WHAT HE REALLY WANTS TO KNOW IS IF WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH 25% PROPERTY TAX INCREASE, I AM NOT I CAN'T I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT LEVEL. I AM COMFORTABLE DOING INCREMENTAL THINGS, STARTING TO PURCHASE PROPERTY THAT WE DON'T OWN ALREADY. THAT'S NOT BEING USED FOR ANYTHING, AND SEEING IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING CREATIVE WITH THE PROPERTY WE OWN AND WITH WHAT UTA HAS THAT SPURS DEVELOPERS TO WANT TO COME, RIGHT. I THINK I THINK WE NEED SOMETHING VISIBLE THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE OVERPAYING AT TIMES FOR KEY PIECES OF PROPERTY OVER THERE TO MAKE THE ASSEMBLAGE WORK. YES. YEAH. YES, MAYBE. IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PARCEL THING. AS PEOPLE START SEEING STUFF BUILT THAT THAT LAND IS GOING TO GO UP A LOT. IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMETHING OBVIOUS HAPPENING SOONER THAN LATER. I THINK BUYING UP LAND IS ONE THING, BUT BUYING UP LAND, YEAH, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW STILL LOOKS LIKE THAT, RIGHT? BUT IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING DONE ON SOME OF IT AND START PROCESS, I THINK IT'S A WHOLE SHIFT IN PERCEPTION. YEAH, I WOULD LOVE IT IF WE COULD GET PART OF THEM TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE CORNER SO THAT WE CAN HAVE MORE OF A PRESENCE, START TO BUILD ON THAT, THAT CORNER, AND THEN IT BECOMES, YOU KNOW, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, BUT A TEN STORY. NO WAITING. NO, I LOVE THOSE GUYS WILL ALWAYS BE OUT THERE WITH THEIR IF YOU LIVE ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND APARTMENTS ON THE TOP, I THINK IT'S MUCH FASTER. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I'M GOING TO TAKE THAT NOTE AND WHAT I'M SHOWING YOU TALK ABOUT VISION AND CITY CENTER. SO WE GOT TWO THINGS TO TALK ABOUT ALL AT ONCE. AND I AM GOING TO ONE THING I DO HAVE TO SAY IS WE'RE SHOCKED IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON MAYBE NOT GOING NOW, LET ALLEN KNOW SO THAT WE CAN CANCEL ANYTHING. SO. SO WE SAVE MONEY. I KNOW THAT I'M NOT GOING INTO IT, BUT I KNOW THE OTHER SIX OF YOU ARE COMING UP THAT YOU CAN'T GO BY ALLEN. NO. SO YOU GET A CHANCE. HOTEL. AND I THINK YOU'RE TOO LATE ON THE YOU GET A 50% 30 5:00 YOU WILL SEE THE HOTEL. AND W

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.