Aug 26, 2025 Committee of the Whole

[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:09]

GOOD EVENING. I'D LIKE TO WELCOME YOU TO THE WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. WE HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER. HUME. COUNCIL MEMBER. COUNCIL MEMBER. GREEN. COUNCIL MEMBER.

SHELTON. COUNCIL MEMBER. LAMB. LAMB WILL BE JOINING US AROUND 430. AND I COUNCIL CHAIR.

[a. Presentation and Discussion on the Draft Traffic Calming Manual]

THANK YOU. THANKS. COUNCIL CHAIR AND COUNCIL. SO WE'RE HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS TRAFFIC CALMING, A NEW DEVELOPMENT. THIS HAS BEEN A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION FOR QUITE A WHILE.

FORTUNATELY, KRISTA WAS ABLE TO PROCURE A GRANT TO GET A NEW MANUAL DONE. THAT GRANT WAS AWARDED TO AVENUE CONSULTANTS WHO HAVE KIRBY HERE TODAY TO GO OVER THE MANUAL AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE A SHORT ONE, BUT ANYWAY, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO TO KIRBY AND GO THROUGH THE. SURE. THANK YOU. COUNCIL AND COMMITTEE JINXED US. HAPPY TO BE HERE AND TO TELL YOU ABOUT THIS PROGRAM. THIS PLAN THAT WE PUT TOGETHER. THIS WAS A WASATCH FRONT REGIONAL COUNCIL FUNDED PROJECT. THERE WAS A THERE WAS A CITY MATCH THAT WAS A SMALL PORTION OF THE PROJECT TOTAL. AND WE HAD A GREAT TEAM. AVENUE IS ACTUALLY YOUR ON CALL ONE OF YOUR ON CALL ENGINEERS FOR THE CITY. SO WE KNOW THE CITY VERY WELL AND HAVE WORKED ON A LOT OF PROJECTS FOR YOU ALL OVER THE YEARS, AND KRISTA WAS OUR PROJECT MANAGER FROM THE CITY.

BY THE WAY, YOUR ENGINEERING TEAM, WEST JORDAN, TOP NOTCH. GREAT, GREAT CREW TO WORK WITH.

IT'S REALLY BEEN A PLEASURE. IT'S GOING TO IT'S GOING TO GO. DID YOU CONVINCE KRISTA TO STAY? BECAUSE KRISTA IS LEAVING? SHE'S VERY HONEST. I'M VERY SORRY, GUYS. SO ARE WE. THANK YOU. SO WHAT? WE HAD AVENUE CONSULTING LOOK INTO. AS I'M SURE YOU GUYS ARE AWARE, TRAFFIC CALMING IS A BIG POINT OF DISCUSSION IN OUR CITY, BOTH FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS AND EXISTING SUBDIVISIONS. WE HAVE. AND WE ASKED AVENUE CONSULTANTS TO LOOK INTO ALL OF THE TRAFFIC CALMING SOLUTIONS THAT THE US IS USING RIGHT NOW. AND THEY EVEN ORIGINALLY LOOKED INTO A COUPLE INTERNATIONAL OPTIONS. AND THEN WE WANTED THEM TO TAKE THOSE TRAFFIC CALMING TOOLS AND PUT THEM INTO A TRAFFIC CALMING TOOLBOX FOR STAFF TO BE ABLE TO REFERENCE THE EFFICACY OF THOSE TOOLS. AND ONCE THAT WAS DONE, WE ASKED THEM TO PUT TOGETHER A MANUAL THAT DEVELOPERS COULD USE FOR NEW SUBDIVISIONS SO THAT THOSE DEVELOPERS ACTUALLY HAD A SET OF GUIDELINES TO FOLLOW WHEN THEY CREATE THOSE NEW SUBDIVISIONS AND CONSTRUCT THEM. AND THEN THE LAST ANCILLARY PART OF THAT WAS A LITTLE UPDATE TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC CALMING PLAN, JUST TO HELP SHOW RESIDENTS WHAT WE CAN DO FOR EXISTING SUBDIVISIONS AS WELL, BECAUSE EXISTING SOLUTIONS ARE REQUIRED TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN SOMETHING BRAND NEW, NEW CONSTRUCTION, NEW SUBDIVISION, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE CONSTRAINTS TO MODIFYING EXISTING CONSTRUCTIONS. KIRBY IS GOING TO TELL US ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT CALMING OPTIONS. THEY LOOKED INTO THOSE EFFICACIES AND THEN DIVE INTO THE UPDATE FOR THE CODE WE'RE PROPOSING FOR DEVELOPERS, AS WELL AS THE TRAFFIC CALMING NEIGHBORHOOD PLAN. SO WHEN IT COMES TO TRAFFIC CALMING, YOU TYPICALLY HAVE THREE STRATEGIES. AND THAT'S HOW WE DIVIDED THE TOOLBOX THAT WE PUT TOGETHER. AS KRISTA MENTIONED, OUR FIRST TASK WAS TO ASSEMBLE A LIST OF TOOLS THAT THE CITY COULD BE USING THE TO TRAFFIC CALM. AND SO THAT FIRST STRATEGY IS WHAT WE CALL A ROAD DIET. SO IN SOME SHAPE OR FORM, WE'RE DECREASING THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD. THAT DOES A COUPLE OF THINGS. IT CREATES VISUAL AND PHYSICAL FRICTION SO THAT CARS TEND TO MOVE SLOWER ON A, ON A LESS A MORE NARROW STREET. THEY TEND TO GO FASTER ON A WIDER STREET. SO THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO TO REDUCE THE WIDTH OF YOUR STREET WITHOUT HAVING TO ACTUALLY REDUCE IT. THAT STRATEGY ONE FOR SURE, JUMP IN.

THIS IS THIS PLAN IS FOR STREETS ARE 30MPH AND SLOWER. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. YES.

[00:05:04]

AND SO THEY DID PUT TOGETHER A CHART THAT DETERMINES THE EFFICACY OF LANE NARROWING STRIPING. AND IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT MATCHES THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED. SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CRITERIA THEY WENT THROUGH, NOT JUST HOW SLOW THIS WILL MAKE A CAR, BUT THEY ALSO LOOKED AT IS THIS GOOD FOR PEDESTRIANS OR IS THIS GOOD FOR BICYCLISTS, OR IS THIS SPECIFICALLY GOOD FOR CHILDREN? SCHOOL CROSSING AREAS. SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF OTHER CRITERIA TO CROSS EXAMINE, SPECIFICALLY LANE NARROWING WITH I JUST IF WE DO PAINT STRIPES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, FOR INSTANCE, I HATE TO SEE THOSE BE 12 FOOT WIDE LANES, RIGHT? RIGHT. SO IS THERE SOME GUIDELINES WE CAN SET INTO EFFECT THAT WOULD SAY, HEY, THESE WILL BE EITHER 8 OR 9 OR TEN FOOT LANES. THAT COULD MAKE SURE. SO WE DON'T HAVE 12 FOOT LANES GOING THROUGH IT 25 MILE PER HOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. SO LANE NARROWING WITH STRIPING ISN'T SOMETHING WE WOULD IN OUR PROPOSING TO ALLOW A DEVELOPER TO DO FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. OH, RIGHT. BECAUSE THIS IS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. THE VERY BIGGEST PORTION OF THIS IS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, SIMPLY BECAUSE LANE NARROWING IS MORE SOMETHING YOU MIGHT END UP HAVING TO DO IN AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD. RIGHT. BECAUSE IT'S AN EASIER SOLUTION TO DO AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S JUST STRIPING. BUT WHEN WE HAVE NEW DEVELOPMENT, WE REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING PHYSICAL AND HAVE THAT DEVELOPER CONSTRUCT THAT ROAD WITH TRAFFIC CALMING IMPLEMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SURE. YEAH. SO THAT MAKES SENSE. WE'RE NOT FOCUSING ON LANE NARROWING FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

COOL. THANKS. SO JUST TO REITERATE, JUST TO BACK UP, THERE'S TWO PARTS OF THIS PROJECT. ONE IS THE CITY ALREADY HAS A TRAFFIC CALMING PROGRAM FOR EXISTING STREETS.

AND THIS WAS ABOUT EXPLORING NEW OPTIONS YOU COULD USE AND THAT EXISTING PROGRAM. WHAT STRATEGIES CAN YOU DO TO YOUR EXISTING STREETS TO HELP WHEN THERE'S WHEN YOU NEED TO TRAFFIC CALM, WHEN THERE'S SPEEDING ISSUES? AND THEN ANOTHER PART OF THIS PROJECT WAS, WELL, HOW DO WE ADDRESS NEW DEVELOPMENT, THE NEW STREETS THAT YOU'RE BUILDING.

SO THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE'LL GET INTO WHAT WE DID LATER IN THE PROJECT. SO THE SECOND STRATEGY OF TOOLS THAT WE COULD PROVIDE THE CITY WITH SOME RESEARCH, SOME NATIONAL RESEARCH IS ROADWAY OBSTACLES. THERE'S THINGS YOU CAN DO TO PUT SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, AND PEOPLE WILL SLOW DOWN IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE.

A ROUNDABOUT IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. PEOPLE SLOW DOWN WHEN THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE ROADWAY. AND THE FINAL, THE FINAL GENERAL STRATEGY IS TO IMPACT THE BEHAVIOR OF DRIVERS. YOU CAN DO THAT IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT WAYS. YOU KNOW, AN EASY WAY TO UNDERSTAND IS BY PARKING A POLICE CAR OUT ENFORCEMENT. THAT'S NOT YOUR BEST UTILIZATION OF YOUR POLICE FORCE, BUT IT'S A VERY EFFECTIVE ONE FOR TRAFFIC CALMING. SO ALL THREE OF THESE STRATEGIES, WE HAD SEVERAL TOOLS THAT WE WENT THROUGH WITH THE CITY WHEN WE CREATED THIS TOOLBOX. AND WE WORKED WITH CITY STAFF NOT JUST FROM ENGINEERING, BUT FROM PUBLIC WORKS, FROM STREETS MAINTENANCE TO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CREATED A LIST OF TOOLS THAT THE CITY COULD USE FOR EXISTING STREETS. THIS DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE THEM, BUT YOU COULD USE THEM IF THE CONDITIONS WERE RIGHT. NOW, FOR EACH ONE OF THESE TOOLS, WE PUT TOGETHER RESEARCH FOR THE CITY SO THEY COULD UNDERSTAND WELL, WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS OF THESE TOOLS ON SPEED? WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS ON SAFETY? WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS ON CRASHES? WHAT ARE THE IMPACTS ON COST? HOW MUCH IS GOING TO COST YOU TO USE IT? HOW TO USE ONE OF THESE TOOLS? WE PUT THIS IN AN ILLUSTRATION. SO YOU COULD SEE GENERALLY THE THE IMPACT OF EACH OF THESE TOOLS.

THE SIZE OF THE TOOL IS HOW MUCH IT COSTS WHERE IT IS ON THIS. IS THIS THE X AXIS WHERE IT IS ON THE X AXIS. IF IT'S FURTHER TO THE RIGHT, IT HAS A GREATER IMPACT ON SPEED. IF IT'S FURTHER TO THE LEFT, IT ACTUALLY INCREASES SPEED. WELL, AS YOU CAN SEE, TRAFFIC CALMING TOOLS DON'T INCREASE SPEED IF IT'S FURTHER ON THE IF IT'S ON THE Y AXIS GOING UP, THEN IT HAS AN INCREASE ON SAFETY. IT DECREASES CRASHES ON THE Y AXIS. IF IT GOES DOWN, YOU CAN SEE IT HAS AN INCREASE IMPACT ON CRASHES. ONE INTERESTING EXAMPLE HERE. NUMBER FOUR THIS IS ON STREET PARKING. WHILE ON STREET PARKING DOES HAVE AN INCREASE AT LOWER SPEEDS, IT DOES INCREASE CRASHES. THOSE TEND TO BE VERY MINOR CRASHES. BUT IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BACKING OUT AND YOU KNOW THEY'RE GETTING IN THE STREET. SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO KNOW. AN INTERESTING ONE. NUMBER 16. SEE HOW BIG THAT IS? THOSE ARE ROUNDABOUTS. THOSE ARE VERY EXPENSIVE TYPICALLY. OH SORRY. TEN IS ROUNDABOUTS VERY EFFECTIVE AT REDUCING SPEEDS BUT RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE BECAUSE OF THE RIGHT OF WAY TYPICALLY HAVE TO PURCHASE TO PUT THOSE IN 16 IS A VERY INTERESTING ONE. YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT SALT LAKE CITY'S PROGRAM

[00:10:02]

SO WE DID A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THAT ONE, INCLUDING TALKING WITH THE CITY AND FINDING OUT HOW EXPENSIVE THAT WAS FOR THE CITY TO DO SALT LAKE CITY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS TO CHANGE ALL THEIR SIGNS, AND IT'S HAD A VERY MINIMAL IMPACT ON MEAN SPEEDS. SO WE PUT ALL THIS RESEARCH TOGETHER SO THAT THE CITY COULD UNDERSTAND HOW TO USE THESE TOOLS ON EXISTING STREETS, BUT WE DIDN'T STOP THERE. WE ALSO PUT TOGETHER A TRAFFIC CALMING MANUAL FOR THE FOR THE CITY FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT. NOW, WHY DO WE DO THAT? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THE CURRENT CITY ORDINANCE IS JUST ONE LINE. IT SAYS WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING A NEW DEVELOPMENT, YOU HAVE TO DO TRAFFIC CALMING. THEN THE DEVELOPERS CIVIL ENGINEER SCRATCHES HIS HEAD AND SAYS, OKAY, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO? CITY ENGINEERS AND THEN CITY ENGINEERS END UP SPENDING THE TIME AND EFFORT TO DESIGN IT FOR THEM. WELL, WE WANTED TO DO IS TO GIVE THEM A MANUAL THAT GIVES THE CIVIL ENGINEERS OF THE DEVELOPERS ENOUGH INSTRUCTION SO THAT THEY CAN DO THE DESIGN. AND THEN THE CITY, YOUR CITY STAFF ARE ONLY SPENDING THEIR TIME REVIEWING THOSE DESIGNS, AND WE WANTED IT TO BE UNIFORM FOR THEM BECAUSE ALL DEVELOPERS COME IN WITH THEIR OWN IDEAS OF, WELL, I DID THIS IN THE LAST SUBDIVISION, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW WELL IT WORKED. SO THIS WILL CREATE A BASIS OF UNIFORMITY IN OUR SUBDIVISIONS AND THROUGHOUT OUR DEVELOPMENTS IN METHODS THAT WE NOW CAN SEE WORK. SO I HAVE A QUESTION IN THE PROPOSED THING. IT SAYS PUBLIC LOCAL STREETS. BUT MANY OF THESE HOAS CONSIDER THEIR ROADS PRIVATE. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLARIFYING THE WORDING. SO THAT WAY DEVELOPERS AREN'T FINDING A LOOPHOLE TO GET OUT OF THIS. SO WE DO HAVE IT IN OUR MASTER TRANSPORTATION MANUAL THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW PUBLIC STREET STANDARDS FOR PRIVATE STREETS. SO WE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT IT'S VERY CLEAR IN THE CITY CODE. THEN IT IS ADOPTED BY CITY CODE. SO I'M JUST SAYING WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WORDING MATCHES.

IT'S JUST TO PREVENT ANY SORT OF LOOPHOLE. IT'S GOOD TO KNOW. SO THIS ORDINANCE CHANGE WILL BE BROUGHT TO PLANNING COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL AS A RECOMMENDATION TO UPDATE YOUR CITY ORDINANCE. AND INSTEAD OF THE INSTRUCTION, WON'T BE IN THE CITY ORDINANCE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE TOO MUCH FOR YOUR YOUR ORDINANCE. INSTEAD, IT WILL DIRECT DEVELOPERS TO A TRAFFIC CALMING MANUAL THAT YOUR CITY ENGINEERS WILL KEEP UPDATED, AND THAT MANUAL WILL HAVE THESE SECTIONS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO OVER ALL THIS. I JUST WANT TO HIT A FEW KEY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN THIS MANUAL. AND ONE OF THOSE FIRST KEY THINGS IS THAT INSTEAD OF TELLING THEM THAT, THEY TELLING DEVELOPERS THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE TRAFFIC CALMING, WE'RE USING THE LANGUAGE SPEED CONTROL POINTS. WHY? BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME NATURAL DESIGN FEATURES IN A SUBDIVISION. AND WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR STREETS THAT ACTUALLY DO TRAFFIC CALMING, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE A CURVE THAT EXCEEDS A CERTAIN RADIUS, CARS WILL SLOW DOWN AS THEY MAKE THAT CURVE. SO YOU DON'T NEED ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC CALMING ON A CURVE THAT EXCEEDS ENOUGH OF A RADIUS. AND SO WE'RE USING THE TERM SPEED CONTROL POINTS.

AND WE NOTE THAT STOP SIGNS DON'T COUNT AS A SPEED CONTROL POINT BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN JUST BLOW THROUGH THEM. SO WE WANT EFFECTIVE SPEED CONTROL POINTS. AND ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS THAT WE DID RESEARCH ON AND TALKED WITH THE CITY STAFF IS, WELL, HOW FAR APART SHOULD THESE TRAFFIC CALMING TOOLS BE FOR NEW DEVELOPERS? WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE TOO FREQUENT BECAUSE THAT WILL BE NOT ONLY COSTLY, BUT IRRITATING FOR DRIVERS. AND WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE TOO FAR AWAY FROM EACH OTHER OR OTHERWISE THEY WON'T BE AFFECTED. PEOPLE CAN SPEED IN BETWEEN THOSE SPEED CONTROL POINTS, SO USING DATA ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARRIVED AT A GOOD BALANCE, WHICH IS 500FT. SO EVERY 500FT DEVELOPER AND A NEW DEVELOPMENT WILL BE REQUIRED TO PUT IN SOME TYPE OF SPEED CONTROL POINT. AND THEY'LL HAVE. WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THIS DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S MUCH RETURN ON INVESTMENT BY GOING FURTHER, GOING MORE CLOSE TOGETHER, MOVING CLOSER TOGETHER. THERE'S NOT MUCH THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT MUCH RETURN, LOWER SPEED. IS THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS FOR BEYOND 500FT, ANY CRITERIA OR ANY LIKE APPEAL PATH? IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S COMMON SENSE THAT IT'S OKAY TO BE BEYOND 500FT. YES. IN THIS MANUAL IS AN OPTION FOR THE CITY ENGINEER TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. OKAY. TO USE THEIR JUDGMENT TO TO GIVE AN EXCEPTION TO ANY ONE OF THESE RULES. THE EXCEPTION SHOULD BE AN EXCEPTION AND NOT LET'S MAKE IT A RULE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING EVERY 500FT. SO WHATEVER WORDING WE NEED TO DO WITH THAT, IT NEEDS TO. WE NEED TO KEEP IT AT THE 500FT. YES, THE STANDARD WILL BE 500. AND THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THAT WOULD BE THE

[00:15:01]

THE MORE EXACTING THAT YOU TRY TO BE IN CODE, THE EASIER IT IS TO FIND A WAY OUT OF IT. IF A DEVELOPER WANTS TO TRY TO FIND A WAY OUT IN A CODE THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN, THEY CAN. WHAT'S GENERALLY BETTER IS PROVIDE A GOOD STANDARD WITH AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHY, AND THEN GIVE A BROAD EXCEPTION TO A PERSON THAT YOU TRUST WILL TAKE CARE, BUT THEY'LL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE BROAD EXCEPTION EVERY TIME. SEE OUR PROJECT SPECIAL. AND SO WE NEED THAT EXCEPTION. AND BECAUSE WE HEAR THAT WITH HOW MANY DEVELOPERS COME IN AND TELL US ALL THE TIME, WELL, OUR PROJECT SPECIAL. SO I DON'T LIKE THE BROAD EXCEPTION. SO THIS IS ACTUALLY WE'VE ALREADY REQUIRED DEVELOPMENTS TO HAVE TRAFFIC CALMING. GENERALLY THEY CHOOSE TO PUT IN SPEED TABLES, WHICH WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING ANYMORE, OR CHOKERS. AND THEY DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE PUTTING THESE IN. SO I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL ISSUES WITH PUTTING IN TRAFFIC CALMING BECAUSE THEY ALREADY DO. ALL THIS SAYS IS NOW WE'RE GIVING YOU A SPECIFIC SET OF STANDARD DRAWINGS WE'D LIKE YOU TO FOLLOW, AND THEY GENERALLY ASK US TO DESIGN THEM FOR THEM. SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE ASKING AN UNDUE BURDEN UPON THEM THAT THEY WILL KICK BACK ON. IN THIS CASE, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE'RE TELLING THE DEVELOPER IS 500FT, AND IT ALLOWS FOR AN EXCEPTION. AND OUR GENERAL ANSWER IS NO. YES.

AND AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE WITH GOOD CAUSE THAT THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY COULD GO GREATER THAN. I MEAN, IF THE ROADS 510FT LONG REASONABLE ASK. THAT'S THAT'S REASONABLE. BUT I THINK THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO START FROM THE POSITION IS 500FT, AND THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS, BECAUSE IF WE DO, IF WE HAVE ANY SORT OF WIGGLE ROOM, THE DEVELOPER WILL SAY, NO, I'M SPECIAL. I NEED TO HAVE THAT. SO YEAH, WELL, WE CAN DEFINITELY COME BACK TO THAT WHEN WE WHEN WE BRING THIS TO YOU FOR ADOPTION. THE EXCEPTION AS IT'S WRITTEN, IS FOR SAFETY FOR PUBLIC SAFETY REASONS. SO THERE MAY BE EXAMPLES OF WHERE YOU MAY NOT WANT TO DO THAT.

THEN WE NEED TO DEFINE THAT. SO THAT WAS ONE OF MY NEXT QUESTIONS. IF IT'S IF THE EXCEPTION CAN BE MADE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AND NOT FOR CONVENIENCE, THEN THEN THAT THAT MAY BE THE APPROPRIATE WORDING. BUT IF IT'S OUT OF CONVENIENCE, NO, THE ANSWER FOR ME WOULD BE NO. OKAY, GOOD. WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. AND WHEN WE WHEN WE SEND THIS, WHEN THE CITY BRINGS US THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE'LL HAVE THAT SPELLED OUT. WELL HOLD ON. ARE THERE FOUR OR MORE OF US THAT WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING? CAN WE CAN WE GO BACK TO, AS WE CURRENTLY ARE, AS RESTRICTIVE AS WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN AND COUNCIL MEMBER BLUE ARE SUGGESTING? ARE THERE ARE THERE STREET SEGMENTS WHERE RACE TREATMENT SHOULD BE AVOIDED BECAUSE OF CRITICAL RESPONSE ROUTES? YOU DON'T KNOW. SO RACE TREATMENTS ARE NOT SOMETHING WE ARE PUTTING IN THE MANUAL. OKAY. RIGHT NOW RACE. BUT YEAH. SO RACE CROSSWALKS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY FOCUS ON PEDESTRIAN SAFETY. SO THE ONLY REASON RACE CROSSWALKS ARE IN THERE IS WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE JORDAN VALLEY TOD, WHERE YOU HAVE A HIGH PEDESTRIAN CROSSING ZONE, OR FOR INSTANCE, DOWNTOWN SALT LAKE HAS A BUNCH OF HIGH PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AREAS. THEY'RE SPECIFICALLY USEFUL FOR HIGH PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AREAS.

WE ARE NOT PROPOSING THEM. AND IN THE MANUAL WE'VE BROKEN OUT LOCAL ROADS, LESS THAN 2000 VEHICLES PER DAY AND LOCAL ROADS HIGHER THAN 2000 VEHICLES PER DAY, WHICH WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY NEIGHBORHOOD COLLECTOR LOCAL ROADS. THEY SERVE THE MAIN BRANCH SYSTEM OF THAT SUBDIVISION. IF THERE IS A HIGH DENSITY OF HOUSING ON THAT AREA, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING CONSIDERED FOR RAISED CROSSWALKS, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING USED JUST IN PLACE OF SPEED TABLES. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS SPEED TABLES. YOU COULD PUT ANYWHERE ON A ROAD THAT AN INTERSECTING ROAD IS NOT RIGHT THERE, JUST A PHYSICAL IMPEDIMENT. HOWEVER, RAISED CROSSWALKS HAVE TO BE PLACED WHERE PEDESTRIANS WOULD CROSS. THEY HAVE TO BE PLACED IN PLACES THAT MAKE SENSE FOR THEM, AND THEY WOULD NOT BE EFFECTIVE IN THE SAME WAY AS A

[00:20:06]

SO FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION THERE WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO BE ANY UTILITY. YEAH THAT'S OBVIOUS.

SO FOR EXISTING WE'RE NOT IT'S A LITTLE BIT SPECIAL FOR EXISTING. THERE ARE SOME OPTIONS YOU CAN TAKE IN DESIGN FOR EXISTING. SO FOR CHOKERS CHOKERS LOOK LIKE THE NARROW HORIZONTAL TRAPEZOIDAL ONES. YOU CAN POTENTIALLY LEAVE YOUR CURB AS IS AND BUILD A CONCRETE TRAPEZOID ON THE INSIDE OF THAT CURVE SO THAT YOU LEAVE THE FLOW LINE OF THE GUTTER ALONE.

OKAY, THAT'S THE MOST MINIMAL THING YOU CAN DO TO INSTALL A CHOKER, AS WELL AS NOT CHANGE YOUR UTILITY SYSTEMS. AND THEN FOR UTILITY RATINGS, YOU CAN ACTUALLY JUST RAISE THOSE MANHOLES UP THROUGH THE CONCRETE. THAT'S PRETTY STANDARD TO DO WITH. SO WHO PAYS FOR THAT THOUGH. SO WE WOULD PAY FOR THAT. IF THIS IS A TRAFFIC CALMING IMPLEMENT THAT WE WOULD DO FOR AN EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH NESTOR'S PROGRAM. SO THEY HAVE THEY HAVE VERY RIGOROUS QUALIFICATIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET. AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON ON THAT. AND THEN AS FAR AS THE OWNERSHIP AND MAINTENANCE, THE MANUAL SAYS THAT THE LANDSCAPING AND DEVICE MAINTENANCE FALL TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, HOA, WHEN APPLICABLE. APPLICABLE. CAN'T TALK? SORRY. DO WE HAVE ANY GUIDELINES FOR THAT OR A TIME FRAME, OR IS IT JUST IT JUST SAYS THERE WITHOUT ANY GUIDANCE OR IS IT? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT STUCK WITH SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO GET TAKEN CARE OF OVER TIME. YEAH. SO RAISED MEDIANS ARE NOT ON THE LIST, AND THOSE ARE THE ONES PEOPLE TYPICALLY THINK OF AS HAVING LANDSCAPING IN THE MIDDLE. BUT THAT WAS REALLY PUT IN THERE BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CHOKERS, YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING IS PUT IN THOSE CHOKERS, BUT THAT WOULD STILL FALL UNDER THE ORDINANCE THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER MAINTAINS THEIR PARK STRIP. SO IT WOULD NOT IMPACT IT WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT WHO'S SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN THAT LANDSCAPING. YEAH, I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR ON THE TIME FRAME OF WHEN THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT'S LANDSCAPED AND TAKEN CARE OF. I FOUND THAT PAGE I WAS CONCERNED

[00:25:05]

YEAH OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS. GOOD SUGGESTION. JUST TO NOTE THERE IT'S THE TRAFFIC ENGINEER.

THE CITY ENGINEER, NOT THE DEVELOPER WHO CAN MAKE THAT SUGGESTION THAT CITY ENGINEER A LOT OF. YEAH, THE DEVELOPER COMES IN AND SAYS, WELL, THIS IS UNDESIRABLE. OKAY. SO YOUR SIDEWALK OVER THERE, IS THAT OVER? BUT IT STILL PUTS THE STAFF IN A SITUATION WHERE.

YEAH, OKAY. SO THE LAST PART OF THIS IS PRETTY SIMPLE. WE PROVIDED STANDARD EXAMPLE DRAWINGS SO THAT EACH ONE OF THESE TOOLS HAS A GUIDE FOR THE CIVIL ENGINEERS, THE DEVELOPERS TO FOLLOW. SO THEY'RE NOT JUST DESIGNING SOMETHING FROM SCRATCH. THEY'RE FOLLOWING A STANDARD. THOSE STANDARD EXAMPLES COME FROM UDOT OR OTHER OTHER ENGINEER DRAWINGS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE STATE. EVENTUALLY, THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN WILL MAKE YOUR OWN CUSTOM STANDARD DRAWINGS. YEAH, THEY WERE ATTACHED. OH, GREAT. YEAH, THEY WORK FAST. SEE WHAT I SAID ABOUT TOP NOTCH? PROBABLY. YEAH, YEAH. AND FINALLY, THE LAST THING IS WE UPDATED OR WE WE CREATED A DECISION MATRIX FOR THE CITY TO FOLLOW WHEN THEY'RE APPLYING TRAFFIC CALMING TOOLS TO EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS. NOW, THIS REALLY FORMALIZES WHAT THE CITY WAS ALREADY DOING. THE CITY, AS I MENTIONED, HAS A TRAFFIC CALMING PROGRAM FOR EXISTING STREETS ALREADY IN PLACE, AND THIS PROVIDES A GUIDE SO THAT THE CITY SO THAT RESIDENTS UNDERSTAND THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. WHEN YOU'RE YOUR CITY STAFF, FOLLOW THE PROCESS THAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE. IT'S VERY CLEAR FOR EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS THEY'RE FOLLOWING. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE AMENDED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC CALMING MANUAL AS A VISUAL AID FOR RESIDENTS. SO IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE.

BUT THE FIRST STEP IS THE STREETS IDENTIFIED FOR TRAFFIC CALMING. THAT MAY BECOME THAT MAY COME THROUGH A CITIZEN REQUEST. NEIGHBORS GET TOGETHER AND SAY, HEY, WE THINK THIS THIS STREET SHOULD BE TRAFFIC ON THIS EXISTING STREET, OR BECAUSE CITY ENGINEERS, CITY STAFF RECOGNIZE THERE'S AN ISSUE. AND THEN IT FOLLOWS A PROCESS WHERE THERE'S AN INITIAL RESPONSE. AND AGAIN, THIS IS THE PROCESS THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE WITH YOUR EXISTING STREET TRAFFIC CALMING PROGRAM WITH THE CITY COLLECTS DATA WITH SPEED TRIGGERS AND OR POLICE ENFORCEMENT. WE CAN JUST END THE SENTENCE AFTER COLLECTS DATA, BECAUSE WE MAY CHOOSE DIFFERENT WAYS TO COLLECT DATA, AND THAT TWO CHOICES. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? THAT WAS THE 5600 WEST FALL IN THAT TOO BIG, TOO BIG. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO BECAUSE BECAUSE 5600 WEST IS JUST THE ANY YOU KNOW, INDIANAPOLIS 500 RACEWAY OR HALF HOUR MARK. CAN I JUST MAKE ONE BLANKET COMMENT? I'M STILL ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO USING ROUNDABOUTS AS A TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURE IN OUR CITY, SO I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE. BACK IN JANUARY, I MADE THIS WAS A BIG THING I MADE A BIG STINK ABOUT. WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE THEM A NEGATIVE MENTALLY, A NEGATIVE THING FOR OUR RESIDENTS AS A TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURE. THEY SHOULD BE TRAFFIC FLOW. THEY SHOULD BE USED FOR TRAFFIC FLOW. SO HAVING THEM AS A PART OF THIS MANUAL, I'M ACTUALLY OPPOSED TO THAT. I DON'T EXPECT YOU GUYS TO ALL JUMP ON BOARD AND CHANGE THAT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO VOTE JUST TO EXPRESS MY OPPOSITION.

AND I'M JUST GOING TO POINT THIS OUT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE ROADWAY OBSTACLE WITH THE ROUNDABOUT, LOOK AT WHICH ONE HAS THE HIGHEST PERCENT OF REDUCTION IN SPEED, IT DROPS.

BESIDES RAISED CROSSWALKS, THAT HAS 4 TO 13 MILES AN HOUR DIFFERENCE. ROUNDABOUTS DROP IT FROM 8 TO 20 MILES AN HOUR. SO THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT. AND THE NUMBER OF CRASHES, THE ONLY ONE

[00:30:05]

THEY'RE DIFFERENT. TRAFFIC CIRCLES ARE DIFFERENT THAN ROUNDABOUTS, BUT YOUR GENERAL RESIDENT DOESN'T RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE. TRAFFIC CIRCLES, I THINK, ARE WHAT YOU MIGHT BE REFERRING TO. THEY'RE USED WITH SMALL LOCAL ROADS AND MUNICIPALITIES. INSTALL THEM TO TRY TO HONESTLY JUST PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL SEPARATION IN BETWEEN TURNING MOTIONS.

ROUNDABOUTS DO REQUIRE BY MUTCD TO HAVE EQUAL FLOW COMING FROM ALL THE SIDES IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE. SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY A THE ROAD HAS TO WARRANT THAT BEFORE IT GOES IN. YOU WOULD NOT BE INSTALLING THESE JUST ON EVERY LOCAL FOUR WAY INTERSECTION. IT'D BE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE NOW. IF YOU HAVE TWO NEIGHBORHOOD COLLECTOR LOCAL ROADS INTERSECT EACH OTHER, THAT WOULD REALLY BE THE ONLY PLACE YOU'D SEE A ROUNDABOUT GO IN BECAUSE THERE ARE HIGH OR THERE ARE HIGHER VOLUMES COMING IN FROM ALL SIDES. AND A FOUR WAY STOP IS A LITTLE BIT LESS MANAGEABLE. SO THAT INCREASES THE THAT INCREASES THE FLOW THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE USED TO IT ELIMINATES THE FOUR WAY STOP. YES. ON FOUR WAY STOPS THAT HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE STOPPING AT THEM. AND YOU HAVE MOTION FROM ALL SIDES ALL THE TIME.

ROUNDABOUTS WOULD NOT BE USED IN AREAS WHERE THERE'S BARELY ANY TRAFFIC COMING THROUGH, BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T IT WOULDN'T WARRANT A ROUNDABOUT AT THAT POINT. SO THERE ARE ADDITIONAL MEASURES THAT HAVE TO BE MET BEFORE ROUNDABOUT WOULD BE SOMETHING THE DEVELOPER WOULD USE. COUNCILMEMBER JACOB HAS SOMETHING NEXT. YEAH, I COULD SQUEEZE A WORD, BUT I THINK WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS MORE OF A MESSAGING ISSUE THAN IT IS THE EFFECTIVENESS OF A ROUNDABOUT OR TRAFFIC CIRCLE AT ANY GIVEN SPOT. HE'S MORE CONCERNED WITH MAKING SURE THAT WE MESSAGE IT CORRECTLY, THAT IT'S THAT IT'S INTENDED NOT AS A AN IMPEDIMENT TO YOUR DAILY COMMUTE, BUT AS A FACILITATOR FOR YOUR DAILY COMMUTE. I MEAN, IT'S A GOOD THING AND NOT A BAD THING, AND WE'RE NOT PUTTING IT IN THERE TO SLOW YOU DOWN.

WE'RE IN THERE TO SPEED YOU UP. AND AND IT'S IT'S MORE OF A, IT'S MORE OF A COMMUNICATIONS ISSUE THAN IT IS WHERE IT IS AROUND ABOUT GO WHERE DOES IT NOT GO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE ONE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE IS ON 4800 WEST, JUST NORTH OF 7800 SOUTH. YEAH, THAT IS LITERALLY JUST AN IMPEDIMENT THAT'S JUST TO SLOW PEOPLE DOWN. AND I'M SURE IT'S PROTECTING PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES HAS SOMEBODY CRASHED INTO THAT GUY'S FENCE FOR. SO YEAH, IT IS IT'S MARK. THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER JACOB. IT'S FOR ME. IT'S ABOUT MESSAGING AND. THE MORE WE USE THEM FOR TRAFFIC IMPEDIMENTS AND CALMING THAN THE LESS LIKELY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SUPPORT US WHEN WE WANT TO USE THEM FOR TRAFFIC FLOW AND IN PLACE WHERE THEY'RE REALLY NEEDED. IN MY OPINION. OKAY. AT 402, COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB JOINED US. AT 432, COUNCIL MEMBER LAM JOINED US. AND I JUST WANT TO REMIND US THAT IN OUR COUNCIL RULES, IT SAYS THAT ONCE EVERYONE'S HAD A TIME TO TALK, YOU CAN HAVE YOUR SECOND TIME. SO IF WE CAN KIND OF PAY ATTENTION AND SEE IF ANOTHER MEMBER WANTS TO GIVE SOME INSIGHT BEFORE WE GIVE OUR SECOND TAKE AT IT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. ARE THERE ANY I KNOW THERE WAS ONE CONCERN THAT I HAD THREE PEOPLE SAY THEY MAYBE WEREN'T OKAY WITH, WHICH WAS THE 500 FOOT, AND HAVING STAFF BE ABLE TO WAIVE THAT BASICALLY. NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD TIME, GENTLEMEN, TO HEAR THE REST OF THEIR PRESENTATION, DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT? COUNCILMEMBER THE DOOR AND JACOB. IT'S A DETAIL THAT I'M WILLING TO LEAVE UP TO THE EXPERTS AND

[00:35:05]

HERE'S SOME GOOD IDEAS THAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER. I FEEL IT WAS. HERE'S WHAT WE EXPECT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. SO FOR THIS ONE, I DON'T FEEL THAT WE HAVE FOUR THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE THAT OUT AT THIS TIME. SO IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAVE FOR THIS ITEM? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[b. Discussion on Council Oversight, Audit Responsibility, and Future Steps Regarding the West Jordan Historical Society Lease and Operations]

EXACTLY. YEAH. ALONG THAT SAME LINES WITH THE ARTS, YOU KNOW, AND AND EVEN LOOKING OVER SOME OF THE STUFF THAT HE'S PROVIDED, THE REPORT SHOWS $61,000 OF IN-KIND VOLUNTEER HOURS AT $27 AN HOUR. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IN THE SAME BREATH, HE SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH VOLUNTEER HOURS TO STAFF THE MUSEUM. AND THAT'S 912 HOURS OF STAFF, SO SOMETHING'S NOT ADDING UP. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM AND FOR US GOING FORWARD.

GREAT. THANK YOU. ADD TO THAT, WELL, I WILL SAY THAT I TOTALLY AGREE. COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM. I THINK IT REALLY HELPED WITH THE ARTS COMMUNITY WHEN WE SAID, HERE'S WHAT WE WANT FOR OUR REPORT, BECAUSE THEN WE GET WHAT WE FEEL WE NEED TO. COMPLETE OUR FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY. BECAUSE REALLY, FOR ME, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. AM I BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RESIDENTS FUNDS? AND WE NEED TO HAVE PROOF THAT THEY'RE OPEN SOME WAY TO SAY, NOT JUST AS I THINK WHERE IT SAYS THAT THEY CAN POST THEIR HOURS, BUT WE NEED TO BE CLEAR THAT THEY CAN'T JUST POST HOURS, BUT THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE OPEN. SO I HELP SPONSOR THIS TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION. BUT MY QUESTION IS. WHAT AT THE END OF THE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES THAT MAKE? WELL, IF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SHOW UP TO A MUSEUM THAT'S NOT AVAILABLE TO THEM, THEN THAT DOESN'T THAT THAT'S WASTING OUR MONEY. WELL, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE ONLY WE'RE ONLY WE'RE ONLY GIVEN A $5,700 A YEAR THAT'S IN MONEY. BUT THERE'S ALSO THAT LAND VALUE THAT THEY'RE SITTING ON THAT THE CITY OWNS. RIGHT. BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO LEASE THAT LAND OUT TO ANYBODY ELSE AT FAIR MARKET VALUE. NO. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IT THERE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IT IS USEFUL TO THE CITY. AND THEY OWN THE HOUSE ON THE LAND. YEAH.

YEAH. I MEAN, IF I WERE, IF I WERE REDOING THIS IN 1999, I WOULDN'T HAVE I WOULDN'T CREATE THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP PERSONALLY. BUT THAT'S ME. SO. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE HOUSE IS GOING TO STAY ON THE LAND, WHETHER THE MUSEUM IS OPEN OR NOT. AND THE $5,700 THAT WE GIVE THEM IS HONESTLY TO PAY FOR THE UTILITIES AND AND THE BASIC UPKEEP OF THE HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY. SO I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM COMING UP WITH A STANDARDIZED REPORT. I

[00:40:04]

AND YOU HAVE I KNOW YOU HAVE, I KNOW, I KNOW SO ALL RIGHT I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW FOR THE ARTS THAT MR. LEE CREATED OR HAD CREATED THE FORM. SO JUST REALLY SO ONE QUESTION I HAD AS I'M LISTENING TO THIS IS WHEN WE DID THE ART. YOU'RE USING THE ARTS AS AN EXAMPLE WHEN WE CREATE WHEN WE REDID THE ARTS GRANT AGREEMENT AND WE HAD THE FORM AS AN EXHIBIT. THIS IS THE REPORT FORM WE WANT YOU TO FOLLOW THAT WAS CREATED LOOKING AT ZAP, BUT IT WAS ALSO CREATED WITH A COMMITTEE WHERE WE HAD A COUPLE COUNCIL MEMBERS, A COUPLE STAFF AND THE ARTS GROUP WORK ON. OKAY. WHAT'S REASONABLE IN THIS REPORT? WHAT DO WE WANT TO SEE? DO YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT SAME KIND OF PROCESS? YEAH. TO CREATE A FORM THAT THE MUSEUM FOLLOWS WHEN REPORTING TO THE. YEAH. BECAUSE THAT GIVES THEM A CLEAR DIRECTION OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND WHAT WE WHAT WE'RE ASKING OF THEM. ARE THERE TWO OF YOU THAT ARE WILLING TO BE ON A SUBCOMMITTEE TO MEET WITH THE MUSEUM AND SOME STAFF TO IRON OUT THE REPORT ON THE COMMITTEE? ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS WE LOOK AT THIS. I THINK WE NEED TO STEP BACK FURTHER AND SAY, WHAT DO WE WANT FROM A MUSEUM? YEAH, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A MUSEUM RIGHT NOW IN ALL, YOU KNOW, IN ALL HONESTY, WE DON'T I, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, CITIES AROUND US HAVE, YOU KNOW, MUCH BETTER MUSEUMS. AND WE'RE THIS LARGE CITY THAT HAS SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EVER OPEN, BUT I THINK IT'S BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER SAT DOWN AND SAID, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT OUR MUSEUM TO BE, AND MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE OWNERSHIP IN. AND DO I PERSONALLY THINK THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT RIGHT NOW ARE OVERWHELMED WITH OTHER THINGS? IN FACT, I WILL SAY MR. DAILY WANTS TO DO THINGS AT THE COMMUNITY AND ARTS CENTER MORE THAN HE WANTS TO DO AT THE ONE THING HE IS ACTUALLY IN CHARGE OF, AND THAT I DON'T THINK IS FAIR TO THE CITY. SO I THINK IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING AND IT'LL TAKE A LONGER CONVERSATION AND SOMETHING BIGGER. BUT WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT DO WE WANT? DO WE WANT MUSEUM THAT'S OPEN FIVE DAYS A WEEK, SIX DAYS A WEEK? WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE TO DO THAT? AND THEN WHAT DO WE DO AS A CITY TO TRY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN? WHAT DO WE WANT TO HAVE IN OUR IN OUR MUSEUM? WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD AND I'VE I WILL ADMIT I'VE BEEN THERE A COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD IT'S NOW MORE OF JUST IT'S WHERE THINGS ARE STORED. AND SO THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON TO REALLY KIND OF LOOK INTO THIS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT DIRECTION WE WANT TO TAKE AND WHAT THEY SHOULD. SO AS PART OF THE COMMITTEE AND I REACHED OUT TO ROBBIE AND SAID, I WILL DO ONE SATURDAY A MONTH WHERE I'LL I'LL SIT IN THERE AND OPEN IT AND RUN IT FOR FOR FIVE HOURS OR WHATEVER. I'LL DO THAT. THEY HASN'T REPLIED BACK TO ME, BUT I'M, I'M WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO DECIDE WHAT WE WANT. AND IF WE HAVE A MUSEUM THERE, THAT'S NOT WORTH OPENING, THEN IT WON'T MATTER HOW MANY HOURS IT'S OPEN, BECAUSE THEN IT BECOMES MORE A DETRIMENT TO THE CITY. IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE IT, IT'S ALMOST BETTER THAT IT'S NOT. AND PEOPLE GO, OH MAN, I WISH I COULD GO SEE THE GREATNESS OF WEST JORDAN. UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS CLOSED AT THIS TIME. THEN TO GO IN AND GO, OH, SO THAT'S THE BEST THEY COULD OFFER ME. SO WHAT SHOULD OUR NEXT STEPS BE THEN? AS FAR AS DO WE NEED TO DO THAT AS A AS A COUNCIL I THINK WE SHOULD. WELL DID ONE A YEAR AGO, YEAR

[00:45:02]

[c. Discussion of the Proposed Vision Statement for the City of West Jordan]

[00:50:04]

YEAH, BUT THERE'S A, THERE'S A, A DISSONANCE IN THE WORDING. WEST JORDAN IS WELCOMING, VIBRANT, SUSTAINABLE THAT HONORS ITS PAST BRACING AND THEN BUILDING A COMMUNITY WHERE THAT IMPLIES A FUTURE. WE ARE AND AND WE'RE BUILDING. OR ARE WE ALSO A COMMUNITY WHERE FAMILIES FIRST BUSINESSES ARE OR STRIVING? JUST TAKE THE WORD BUILDING. NO IT'S NOT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TAKING OUT THE WORD BUILDING, BUT IT'S A IT'S A IT'S A QUESTION, I GUESS IN GENERAL OF ARE WE STATING WHAT WE ARE OR WHAT WE'RE STRIVING? I MEAN, IT'S A VISION STATEMENT.

MAYBE SOME OF THAT STATEMENT IS GENERALLY A MOTIVATING, A ASPIRATIONAL THING, NOT A CLAIM OF WHAT IS. I THINK THE BUILDING PLAYS OFF OF THE FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES. I THINK SO TOO. AND THEN AND THEN IS. YEAH. AND THEN THE IS KIND OF IT CREATES A DISSONANCE WITH FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE BUILD A COMMUNITY. YEAH. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE WE BUILD A COMMUNITY WHERE FAMILIES. YEAH. THE VERBIAGE THAT'S COMING TO MIND THAT I DON'T LOVE. BUT BLURTING IT OUT IS THAT WOULD BE LIKE WEST JORDAN STRIVES TO BE. AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? STRIVE TO BE A WELCOMING, I WANT TO SAY CONTINUING TO BUILD A COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF BUILDING. IT'S JUST BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN BUILDING FOR YEARS. YEAH, RIGHT. AND WE'RE ALMOST BUILT OUT. SO ARE WE.

AND WE'RE NOT ALMOST BUILT OUT, BUT WE'RE GETTING THERE. WELL. BUILDING, BUILDING A COMMUNITY IS MORE THAN BEING BUILT OUT. YEAH, THAT WAS MY IT'S MORE IT'S NOT JUST BUILDING IT, BUT ACTUALLY THAT'S MY THAT'S MY THOUGHT. AND THERE'S JUST SOMETHING, JUST SOMETHING THE MEAT OF IT I LOVE THE THE MEAT OF IT. BUT THERE'S, THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE THAT'S JUST NOT MATCHING THAT, CREATING A SENSE OF COMMUNITY WHERE FAMILIES. SENSE OF COMMUNITY. I LIKE THAT THIS JORDAN IS CREATING NO MATTER YOU CAN JUST. YOU CAN GET RID OF BUILDING AND THAT JUST BECOMES FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES. A COMMUNITY WHERE FAMILIES FLOURISH, BUSINESSES THRIVE. NATURAL RESOURCE I LIKE IT YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH. JUST GET RID OF BUILDING AND WE'RE THERE AND AND THE DASH. SHOULD BE A SEMICOLON. AND THE ANGER JUST PUT A PERIOD AND CAPITALIZE THE A. THAT'S NOT A COMPLETE SENTENCE. SO TAKE OUT THE DASH IN THE BUILDING AND MAKE IT A SEMICOLON. YEAH YEAH. ALMOST. THERE WE GO. I LIKE THAT. OKAY. SO IT DOES ANYONE HAVE ISSUES. WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE SLIDE. GRAMMATICALLY

[00:55:02]

AND THEN WE GO TO OUR PRESERVED. IS THERE A IS THERE A BETTER IS THERE A BETTER VERB? NATURAL RESOURCES FAMILIES FLOAT. NATURAL RESOURCES ARE OUT AND JUST RESOURCES PRESERVED.

THERE'S NOT AN ACTIVE VOICE FOR PRESERVING NATURAL RESOURCES. THE R IS TO DO Y FOR THE FUTURE.

YEAH, IF YOU THINK THAT. WOULD IT BE THESE HORSES? I THINK SINCE IT'S THE THIRD ONE, THERE'S NOT AN ACTIVE VOICE. IT ACTUALLY WORKS. I SEE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, FROM THE FROM THE LEGAL WRITING STANDPOINT. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DO IT LIKE THAT. BUT FROM A MARKETING STANDPOINT, IT ACTUALLY FLOWS. CAN WE RUN THIS BY LEGAL MAKE SURE IT'S ALL GOOD? IT'S RIGHT THERE. OKAY. IS THERE ANY CONCERN WITH WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE BOARD? ARE YOU READY TO APPROVE THIS CONSENT ITEM ALL NIGHT? WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT AGAIN. WE ARE MOVING ON. IT'S ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING. I KNOW, AND I THINK I MENTIONED THAT. THE

[d. Discussion on the Formulation of a Home Ownership Promotion Zone (HOPZ) and the Applicability of HOPZ to Current Zoning Ordinances]

MAKE SURE THAT'S SOMETHING THE COUNCIL IS COMFORTABLE WITH AND THE DIRECTION ON IF YOU WANT TO HOP OR NOT. IF WE WERE TO DO A HOT ZONE. YES. HOW WOULD YOU ENVISION THAT BEING PLAYED OUT? LET'S SAY YOU GOT A LET'S SAY THERE'S THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY JUST SOUTH OF AN R1 NINE NEIGHBORHOOD AND OUT TOWARDS COPPER RIM. HOW WOULD YOU. ZONE? WHAT WOULD THE HOP Z DO TO A PIECE OF PROPERTY LIKE THAT? THAT WE HAVE TO GO FROM WEST SIDE PLANNING TO A NEW ZONE AND SOMEBODY SAYS, WELL, LET'S USE THE HOP Z. YEAH. SO THAT IS EXACTLY OUR THOUGHT. AS WE DRAFT A BRAND NEW ORDINANCE, IT'D BE A FULL ZONING DISTRICT AND THEY WOULD JUST APPLY TO HAVE THAT ZONING APPLIED TO THAT PROPERTY, REPLACING THE EXISTING ZONING. AND, AND THEN THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO OUR NOTICING WITH THE STATE AND THE TAXING ENTITIES, WHICH WE HAVE TO DO IN DETOXING ZONES AS WELL. SO BUT WHAT WOULD WHAT WOULD BE THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HOP Z BESIDES SIX UNITS AN ACRE? SO THEY'D HAVE TO BE DEED RESTRICTED. WE'D HAVE TO

[01:00:02]

IT'S THAT IT'S A FORM BASED ZONING WITH VERY MINIMAL RESTRICTIONS. IT'S GOT TO HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES. SO THE DRIVEWAY HAS TO BE AT LEAST 44. BUT AND THEY HAVE TEN FEET ON ONE SIDE AND SOME ON ANOTHER. AND YOU CAN MOVE THE HOUSES FORWARD. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT. SO BASICALLY SOMEBODY COULD GO IN AND BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND NOT HAVE TO PUT A DETACHED GARAGE ON IT. SOMEBODY WOULDN'T THEY COULD PUT THE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO LIKE WHAT WE SEE WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN 13TH EAST AND YOU'VE GOT HOW MANY HOUSES THAT THEY'VE GOT, THE DRIVEWAY DOWN THE SIDE, YOU GO DOWN 1530, YOU'LL SEE THOSE WHERE THE DRIVEWAY GOES TO, DOWN THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THEN WAY IN THE HECK IN THE BACK, YOU'VE GOT THE YOU'VE GOT THE DETACHED GARAGE THAT THEY ADDED ON LATER BECAUSE THEY BUILT THE HOUSE. YOU WANT TO BE A SUGAR HOUSE PARK. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING. WELL, I'M DESCRIBING MINE. I'M DESCRIBING MY NEIGHBORHOOD JUST WEST OF ME AT 1530 WEST SUGAR. IT WAS A LOT DENSER THAN THOSE PARKS.

YEAH. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT'S WHERE I WOULD THINK THAT IF WE'RE GOING DOWN THE HOT ZONE, WE. BECAUSE HOP Z IS IS AS A NEW DEAL IS A NEW SITUATION. THROW THE HOT THROW OUT THE STANDARD EUCLIDEAN EUCLIDEAN ZONE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S VERY MINIMAL THINGS YOU HAVE TO HAVE ON A LOT. YOU HAVE TO HAVE ENOUGH DRIVEWAY TO PARK A COUPLE OF CARS. THE HOUSE IS CAN BE. AND I WOULD ACTUALLY PREFER THAT THE FIRST SETBACK TO BE SHORTER. AND THE GARAGE.

SO YOU HAVE THE DRIVEWAY. YEAH. YEAH. AND IF IF THE FRONT IF THE HOUSES ARE SET FORWARD ON THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY FURTHER, THEN THE FRONT YARD BECOMES SMALLER, WHICH IS LESS WATER WASTED ON A, ON A CRAPPY FRONT LAWN THAT NOBODY USES ANYWAY. AND IF THE LOTS ARE NARROWER AND DEEPER THAN WHAT WE GET, CORBIN AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS. WHAT YOU GET IS. A LOWER COST PER FOOTAGE OF THE SEWER AND WATER LINES, BECAUSE YOU GOT YOU GOT TEN HOUSES NOW INSTEAD OF SEVEN COVERING THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT AREA. SO IF YOU MAKE THE HOUSES THAT MAKE THE LOTS A LITTLE BIT NARROWER AND PUT ALL THE YARD IN THE BACKYARD, THEN THE MAINTENANCE OF THE STREET BECOMES CHEAPER PER COST. THE COST OF A MILE IN HOUSE IT IT USES LESS WATER IN THE FRONT YARD, ALLOWS THE BACKYARDS TO BE MORE UTILIZED IN THE ROOMS LIKE JORDAN VALLEY WATER CONSERVANCY DISTRICT LIKES. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, LET'S LET'S DO THIS FULL FLEDGED THAT WE CAN SAY, HEY, LOOK, WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THE GARAGE AND A COUPLE OTHER THINGS SO THAT IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE A DEVELOPER CAN COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THAT'LL BE A REALLY GOOD ZONE TO PUT AN AFFORDABLE, MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE GET THE SIX UNITS AN ACRE. WE CAN BUILD IT CHEAPER BECAUSE WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BUILD A GARAGE AND NOT HAVE TO HAVE A BIG FRONT YARD AND A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS AND TRY TO DRIVE THE AFFORDABILITY THAT THE COST OF THE HOUSE DOWN, THAT PEOPLE CAN MOVE IN THERE, GET IT DEED RESTRICTED, AND THEN IF THEY STAY IN THE HOUSE FOR FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS, WHATEVER, OR THREE YEARS AND SAY, I WANT A GARAGE, WELL, NOW THEY'VE GOT THE EQUITY, THEY CAN TAKE A HOME EQUITY LOAN OUT AND GO BUY THE GARAGE OR DO SOMETHING ELSE. RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHERE I WOULD I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT. I HIGHLY DOUBT ELIMINATING GARAGES WILL BRING PRICES DOWN. AND IT'S NOT I'M NOT HEARING THAT TOWARDS YOU. IT'S JUST IF YOU TOOK THOSE AWAY, THEY WOULD STILL BUILD A HOUSE WITHOUT A GARAGE AND STILL CHARGE THE AMOUNT. IT MAY BE SLIGHTLY LESS, BUT YEAH, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING COMPS AS A REALTOR, IT TAKES OVER $10,000 OFF THE PRICE OF THE HOUSE JUST TO REMOVE. RIGHT? SO INSTEAD OF A $650,000 HOUSE, THEY'LL FIND A WAY TO PRICE.

THAT INFORMATION I JUST GAVE YOU IS OVER TEN YEARS OLD. SO THEY'LL FIND A WAY TO BRING THE PRICE AGAIN AND MAKE MORE MONEY. IT'S. YEAH. AND I AGREE WITH YOU. I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE

[01:05:04]

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THAT HELPS US WITH SOME DATA DRIVEN DECISIONS TO SAY WE DID THIS. THIS IS ANOTHER TOOL THAT THAT YOU THAT YOU MISSED, YOU MR. OR MRS. OR REPRESENTATIVE. SO AND SO THAT'S WHAT YOU DID IN THE LEGISLATURE. WE ADOPTED IT AND WE GOT NO TAKERS. AND SO YOU CAN'T SO THAT WE CAN STEP UP AND SAY, SEE THAT'S NOT OUR FAULT. AND AND I THINK THAT'S THE KIND OF MESSAGING THAT WE HAVE TO WE HAVE TO ADOPT.

COUNCILMEMBER SHELTON, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO WEIGH IN? YES. COULD YOU SEE ME NOT SAYING SOMETHING? YEAH, I WOULD, I THINK THAT YOUR IDEA IS AWESOME, BUT I'D ALSO LOVE TO HAVE A ROUNDTABLE WITH DEVELOPERS AND ASK THEM WHAT THEY NEED IN THAT ZONE TO HELP DRIVE PRICES DOWN.

AND IF IT'S THE SAME AS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AWESOME. BUT IF MAYBE THERE'S A COUPLE NUANCES THAT WE'RE MISSING, YOU KNOW, IS THAT SOMETHING WE COULD DO AS A COUNCIL? OR. SOMETHING WE COULD DO? WE COULD, WE COULD WE COULD DRAG JEFF BACK OUT TO WEST JORDAN CITY HALL. WE WE CAN CERTAINLY UTILIZE WE HAVE A WE WE HAVE OUR EXTRA MEETING. YOU KNOW, THAT'S TRUE. OUR EXTRA WORK MEETING THAT WE'VE SCHEDULED IN THAT WE COULD WE COULD INVITE DEVELOPERS. OF COURSE, THEY HAVE THEIR FREE AGENCY. SURE. I WROTE SOME NOTES JUST READING THROUGH THIS.

I LIKE TIE IN ELIGIBILITY TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, MEANING LIKE WALKABILITY TO SCHOOLS OR TRANSIT, TRANSIT, YOU KNOW, PLACES WHERE AVOIDS COSTLY UPSIZING UTILITIES WITHOUT ANY SORT OF FUNDING PLAN. I THINK THAT'S JUST SOME OF THE NOTES I WROTE DOWN. I THINK THAT THE FIVE YEAR IS A LITTLE BIT TOO SHORT AS FAR AS TO BUILD GO LONGER. I THOUGHT IT WAS ONLY I THOUGHT STATUE WAS ONLY FIVE. I THOUGHT IT WAS UP TO 15. IT STARTED AT FIVE, ISN'T IT? OR DID I READ? I THOUGHT IT WAS FIVE MINIMUM. FIVE MINIMUM. YEAH. I THINK IF WE, I THINK THAT THAT'S MAYBE TOO SHORT TO BUILD SOME LONG LASTING AFFORDABILITY. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? MORE LIKE TEN YEARS. I'D LOVE TO SEE AS MANY AS POSSIBLE. YEAH, RIGHT. OKAY. I THINK YOU HAVE. I THINK WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE EXACT WORDING OF THE STATUTE. YEAH, YEAH, WE'LL NEED TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE I THINK FIVE YEARS MAY BE A LITTLE TOO SHORT, CONSIDERING HOW LONG IT TAKES SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS TO BE BUILT INCREMENT OVER LIKE IF, IF IT'S OVER PROMISED. IF THE MARKET UNDERPERFORMS, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE LIKE A HARD CAP AND MILESTONE BASED REIMBURSEMENT OR SOMETHING TO TO HELP KEEP THAT AFFORDABILITY REQUIRE MAYBE A PRICE CAP. THESE ARE JUST SOME IDEAS I'VE THROWN OUT. ONE THING IS WHERE WAS IT I HAD IN MY NOTES? YOU KNOW THAT THAT IS A POSSIBILITY THROWING A PRICE CAP IN THERE.

YEAH. SO TO QUALIFY, 60% OF THE HOMES HAVE TO BE UNDER 80% OF THE COUNTY AVERAGE. SO YES, AFFORDABILITY 60% AT OR BELOW 80%. COUNTY MEDIAN PRICE CAP, DEED AND OWNER OCCUPANCY TERMS. RESALE CAP OPTIONS. ANTI STR ANTI FLIP. LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE DID I ASKED. SOME OF THESE WILL COME UP. OTHER QUESTIONS WILL COME UP LATER. BUT OH YEAH HERE'S A QUESTION I HAD. HOW LET'S SAY SOMEONE DOES RENT IT OUT. WHAT WHAT'S THE PROCESS OF TRACKING OR COMPLIANCE OR TROUBLES? SOMEONE RENTS A HOUSE. WELL, YOU COULD BUY THEIR UTILITY BILL POTENTIALLY. LIKE IF RESTRICTIONS ARE GOING TO BE ENFORCED BY THE COUNTY. I DON'T THINK THE CITY ENFORCES DEED RESTRICTIONS. SO, YEAH, THE POST OCCUPANCY REPORTING, LIKE ON THE SALES PRICES, OWNER OCCUPANCY, RESALE COMPLIANCE, LIKE WHO OWNS THAT CHECK. SO THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WILL HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT. THE WAY THE LEGISLATION READS IS THE CITY CAN USE A PORTION OF THE TAX INCREMENT TO PAY FOR THE COMPLIANCE, OR WE CAN DECIDE THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO A DEED RESTRICTION AND LEAVE IT UP TO OTHER MECHANISMS, BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE'RE

[01:10:04]

COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, YOU GOT ANYTHING YET? NOPE. OH, YEAH. I'M LOOKING AT NOTHING MORE TO ADD AS WELL. I, I DO LIKE THE ABILITY THE COUNCILMEMBER GREEN WAS TALKING ABOUT TO KIND OF CUSTOMIZE THINGS A LITTLE MORE. AND I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH COUNCILMEMBER SHELTON OF WHY DON'T WE FIND OUT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WHO NEED IT TO BE CERTAIN WAYS, WHAT WHAT ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD? HOW MANY AREAS DOES THIS EVEN AFFECT NOW? BECAUSE MOST OF I'M NOT IS NOT BUILT OUT, BUT MOST OF THE LAND IS SPOKEN FOR NOW.

SO WE'LL BE TALKING TEN ACRES OR LESS. ARE WE TALKING LIKE THREE DIFFERENT AREAS FOR DIFFERENT AREAS? THERE'S PROBABLY 2 OR 3 AREAS IN THE CITY THAT BE GOOD CANDIDATES FOR THIS. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT JORDAN SCHOOL DISTRICT AS A WHOLE CAN ONLY HAVE 100 ACRES OF HOP ZONE ZONES WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, SO IT'S GOING TO BE VERY LIMITED. THEY'RE GOING TO PROBABLY BE SMALLER IN SIZE. I THINK THIS WILL BE SMALLER. I BRING IT UP JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE THE CITY THAT'S BEEN ALMOST BUILT OUT AND ALMOST ALL SPOKEN FOR, AND IT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE NOW UNTIL NOW. AND NOW WE'RE CHANGING IT FOR THE LAST FIVE SECONDS OF LAND LEFT. THIS IS THE TWO OF THE LEGISLATURE LAST YEAR. I KNOW, BUT IT JUST SEEMS IT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE'RE A LITTLE BIT LATE ON DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS. WELL, ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION. I DID HAVE. THE SIX DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE IS THE MINIMUM FOR THE HOP. SEE, WE HAVE A LOT OF ZONES THAT ALREADY ALLOW FIVE AND A HALF SIX UNITS PER ACRE. DO WE WANT TO GO HIGHER TO ENCOURAGE THE USE OF THIS, OR DO WE WANT TO HOLD IT AT SIX DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE AS A MAX. SO SIX IS THE MINIMUM MAXIMUM WE COULD DO.

SO SIX IS THE MINIMUM FOR HOPS. BUT WE COULD GO HIGHER THAN THAT IF THE COUNCIL SO CHOOSES.

I JUST WHEN I START LOOKING INTO THIS AND DRAFTING IT, I DON'T WANT TO COME WITH SOMETHING THAT ISN'T GOING TO BE USED, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO COME WITH SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PALATABLE TO THEM. THAT'S SOMETHING WHERE I WOULD WANT TO HEAR YOUR OPINION. I WANT CLARIFICATION WHEN YOU SAY SIX, YOU MEAN WE WOULD ALLOW UP TO SIX? NO. TO QUALIFY FOR HOPS THEY HAVE TO BE AT LEAST SIX ACRE. BUT I'M ASKING IF THE COUNCIL'S COMFORTABLE WITH THAT NUMBER GOING HIGHER. SO REQUIRING A HIGHER DENSITY THAN SIX ALLOWING ALLOWING SO MINIMUM OF SIX AND ALLOWING HIGHER THAN SIX. OR IF SO, IF WE LEAVE IT AT SIX, IT HAS TO BE EXACTLY SIX BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE A MINIMUM OF SIX. AND THEN WE SAY IT CAN'T BE MORE THAN SIX. SO IT'S GOT TO BE SIX MORE THAN THE MINIMUM. OR ARE WE GOING TO PUT A RANGE IN THERE. WHAT ARE YOU. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING BOTH THINGS. AND SO RIGHT NOW STATE LAW REQUIRES IT TO HAVE AT LEAST SIX DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. I'M ASKING WHAT THE COUNCIL IS COMFORTABLE WITH, SIX BEING THE LOWER RANGE. SO SIX HAS TO BE THE LOWER RANGE TO BE USED. SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE UPPER NUMBER. CORRECT. SEE I CANNOT BE SIX. OTHERWISE IT HAS TO BE EXACTLY SIX. YES I WOULD POINT SIX AND SIX IS ONLY SIX I WOULD I WOULD KEEP IT.

HERE'S MY MY THOUGHT. KEEP IT AT A MINIMUM OF SIX. BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER ON THIS HAS TO COME WITH COME IN WITH AN MDP AND AN MDA RIGHT. MOST LIKELY YEAH BECAUSE IT'S A REZONE AND EVERYTHING. WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE THE MDP AND THE MDA AND BUT IF IT'S GOT AN MDP, MDA, THEN THE COUNCIL WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, YEAH, WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH 6.5. WE LIKE THE 6.5 BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE. WE SAY NO, DROP IT TO 6.0. BUT I THINK WHAT IT DOES IS IT GIVES THE DEVELOPER A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY AND THEN THE GIVE AND TAKE TO WORK WITH THE COUNCIL TO SEE WHAT THE WHAT THE DENSITY WOULD, WOULD APPROPRIATELY BE. SO I WOULD, I WOULD KEEP IT AT JUST A MINIMUM OF SIX AND DO AN MDA, MDP AND HAVE NO, HAVE NO MAXIMUM. NO, BECAUSE IT'S STILL GOT TO GO THROUGH THE COMMITTEES AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANYTHING CRAZY. BUT I THINK TO US I THINK YOU NEED SOME SORT OF GUIDELINE IN THERE, DON'T YOU? I MEAN, I MEAN, SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, SOME DEVELOPER COMES IN HERE. I GOT A PROPOSAL FOR 50 UNITS AN ACRE. YEAH, THAT'S NOT GOING TO FLY. YEAH, BUT OKAY THEN TELL ME WHAT NUMBER IS GOING TO FLY 30 UNITS AN ACRE, 2010 7.5. WHY NOT 50? BUT THE HOP Z APPLIES TO ONLY SINGLE FAMILY UNITS, DOESN'T IT? IT DOESN'T APPLY TO DOES IT APPLY TO CONDOS? I KNOW WE CAN USE IT FOR DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY TOWNHOMES. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT. DOESN'T ALLOW CONDOS. RIGHT. SO IT DOES HAVE TO BE. IT CAN'T BE.

[01:15:08]

DO YOU WANT I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER I CAN SUGGEST, JUST LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, BUT I JUST. I'M NOT SURE I'M COMFORTABLE WITH UNLIMITED NUMBER. AS WE'VE BEEN TOLD THOUGH, IT'S IT'S LIMITED, I WOULD SAY. WELL, YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GOING TO BE INFILL. THIS WOULD THIS WOULD BE AN INFILL TYPE PROJECT. AND WE ALL KNOW WE WE ALL DRIVE WE ALL DRIVE THROUGH NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE WE KNOW WHERE THE INFILL LOTS ARE. AND THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD BE OR COULD BE. AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU COULD PUT IN

[01:20:02]

THE PURPOSE IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND MORE UNITS ON A SMALLER LOT. YOU CAN'T YOU CAN'T MATCH. IF YOU'RE MINIMUM OF SIX, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MATCH AN R1 TEN. NO, NO. BUT SIX SIX TO R1. SORRY IT'S GOT A MATCH. WELL SIX TO R1 10TH MAY BE REASONABLE. 25 TO R1 10TH MAY NOT. THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING IS THAT IT'S I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RATIO WOULD BE BUT YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT. I THINK THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT.

JUST AS LONG AS NONE OF THESE. WELL, NO, IT'S TOO MUCH WHEN WE KNOW IT'S TOO MUCH. I FEEL LIKE OUR GENERAL PLAN. I KNOW WHEN I SEE IT. RIGHT. YEAH. THE THE WORDING IN THE GENERAL PLAN, I THINK ADDRESSES. WELL, WHAT WERE YOU WERE YOU HAD MORE. NO, NO, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I HAD ON MY LIST. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HEARD EVERYONE ALSO MEETING WITH DEVELOPERS. SO DOES MR. ANDERSON AND MR. JOHNSON WANT TO KIND OF COORDINATE ON GETTING SOMETHING TO DEVELOPERS? HOW DO WE WANT TO PROCEED WITH THAT? I CAN WORK WITH MR. JENSEN AND SCOTT AND THE ADMINISTRATION. WE CAN PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU, COUNCIL.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT AS SPICY AS LAST TIME. MOVING RIGHT ALONG. I NEED TO HAVE YOU DONE BY 615. I THINK WE MIGHT BE BEFORE YOU JUST CHANGED THIS. BUT I CAN JUST BE DONE BY 615.

IT'S EASY, I HEARD THAT. NO, I DIDN'T SAY JERK. YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE MAGIC. OKAY, THE NEXT

[e. ​​Discussion of a Proposed Future Land Use Map Amendment for Highlands Landing North]

YEAH, SADLY. YOU GET ME STRAIGHT UP. WOW. THANK YOU. WELCOME, GENTLEMEN. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SHARE WITH US TODAY? YOU ARE BRINGING ME A STEAKHOUSE AND A COSTCO, RIGHT? I WOULD LOVE TO. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE HERE FOR? NOT QUITE. WE'RE GETTING CLOSE, THOUGH.

YEAH. WHAT DO YOU WANT? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A REZONE, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT DENSITY OF SIX UNITS TO THE ACRE. DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? NO, SERIOUSLY. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. WE CALL THIS HIGHLANDS LANDING NORTH. THIS IS 5600 WEST. 1700 SOUTH IS DOWN HERE. THE EXCITING NEWS.

IOHK IS BREAKING GROUND. I'M SURE MOST OF YOU ARE GOING TO BE HERE. IS THAT AGAIN? I'M GOING TO SEE. IT'S GOING TO BE RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SO THE. SO PARK AT SIX. CULVER'S. CULVER'S.

IS CULVER'S THERE OKAY. AND THEN NIELSEN'S GO GET YOUR CUSTARD HERE. THE CONVENTION SO I CAN RIDE MY BIKE THERE. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING WE HAVE ABOUT TEN ACRES JUST UNDER THAT BECAUSE THE ROAD TOOK A LITTLE BIT. IT'S 9.9 SOMETHING ACRES THAT WE'RE WE WANT TO REZONE TO OUR ONE EIGHT, WHICH WILL MATCH THE, THE. R3 R3. YEAH. THANK YOU. WHICH WILL MATCH THE HOMES BEING BUILT RIGHT HERE. SO. IT'S THESE TWO PARCELS. AND THEN IF YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, IT'S KIND OF GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF OKAY THIS WAS OUR INITIAL CONCEPT THAT WE WE SENT TO RAY. AND YOU KNOW WE TOOK A LOOK AT IT. WE DIDN'T LIKE I DIDN'T LIKE IT VERY MUCH. SO WE TALKED TO OUR ENGINEERS AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME CHANGES. THIS IS THE NEW ONE IN YOUR PACKET. THIS IS PROBABLY IN YOUR PACKET RIGHT HERE. YEAH THAT'S FINE. SO WE WANT TO WE WANT TWO COMMERCIAL LOTS ALONG 5600. I SEE ONCE AGAIN DOWN HERE WE THINK WITH IFC AND PROJECT BLUE SKY THAT WHAT WE'RE CALLING BLUE SKY THIS IS GOING TO BE IT'S GOING TO BRING A LOT OF INTEREST TO THIS NECK OF THE WOODS. SO AND SO TWO COMMERCIAL PADS RIGHT HERE AND THEN RESIDENTIAL BEHIND IT 42 LOTS 6.33 UNITS TO THE ACRE. THIS CONCEPT PROPOSING NOT THAT ONE. YEAH WELL WHICHEVER YOU'D LIKE. THIS IS SO FUNNY. WHEN I SAW THAT I SAID WHY DON'T YOU

[01:25:03]

WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT MUCH BETTER. I DON'T LIKE THE ALLEYS, THE HAMMERHEADS. AND I ACTUALLY EMAILED YOU THIS CONCEPT THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. IF YOU. IF YOU COULD PULL IT UP, IT WENT TO YOUR EMAIL. SO. GMAIL'S OFF LIMITS. YEAH. DO YOU THINK IT'S THE ONLY PRIVATE SERVER? HERE.

BUT. AND THEN. SO THE FRONT PAGE SHOWS THE PREFERRED CONCEPT. IT'S ACTUALLY IT'S IT'S MUCH BETTER GETS RID OF SHARED DRIVEWAYS AND THESE HAMMERHEADS THAT THIS ONE DOES.

IT PRESENTS A BETTER FLOW TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. MINIMUM 4000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS MATCHING CREATING A GOOD BUFFER FROM THE COMMERCIAL TRANSITIONING TO THE RESIDENTIAL WHICH ARE BIGGER.

LOTS TO THE NORTH AND TO THE EAST. HOW LONG ARE YOUR DRIVEWAYS? AT LEAST 22FT. JEFF JEFF HAS OBVIOUSLY WORKED WITH THIS COUNCIL BEFORE, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO RENT THESE. WE IT'S A FLUID SITUATION, BUT WE'RE WE'RE OPEN TO DISCUSSING. ARE YOU PLANNING ON SELLING THIS TO A TO A TO A COMPANY THAT WILL JUST TURN THEM ALL INTO RENTALS? WE DON'T KNOW YET, BUT YOU MIGHT. IT'S KIND OF A FLUID SITUATION WHICH LIKE AT THIS DENSITY YOU DON'T ANSWER THE QUESTION, BUT WE WON'T KNOW BECAUSE I CAN'T MAKE THAT COMMITMENT RIGHT NOW. BUT AT THIS DENSITY AND THIS THING, WE THINK THAT THE PRICE POINT WILL WE COULD PROBABLY GET IT AT A LOW FIVE HUNDREDS. WE'RE TALKING 525 ISH, 5 TO 525 ISH. YOU DON'T WANT TO TURN THE WEST.

YES. THAT THAT'S VERY ATTRACTIVE TO CORPORATIONS THAT WANT TO BUY HOMES. RIGHT. AND THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THE HOUSE SIZE, HOUSE SIZE ABOUT 2500FT■!. OH, REALLY? YEAH. TWO CAR GARAGES. AND THEN THE THE THE PAPER BEHIND ACTUALLY IS A STREETSCAPE OF HOW THAT WOULD WORK OUT THERE BECAUSE THAT WAS JUST LIKE THE TWO HOMES THAT YOU SEE ON THE END HAVE THE DRIVEWAYS COMING OFF. SO THEY WOULD BE LIKE A CORNER LOT. IF WE'RE WORKING. IT'LL BE THERE SHORTLY. AM I LOSING AND HOW MUCH GREEN SPACE AM I LOSING BECAUSE I'M LOSING BOTH. WHAT AM I LOSING? WELL, FROM WHAT YOU'RE ALREADY REQUIRED TO BUILD, JEFF. SO REALLY, A FEW YEARS AGO, THIS IS THE OTHER PIECE IS WHAT WE CALL IT THIS SOLID LINE. A FEW YEARS AGO, YOU CAME AND REZONED IT COMMERCIALLY SO YOU WOULD BE LOSING ALL OF THIS AS COMMERCIAL. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW THIS PROPERTY IS, NO COMMERCIAL IS GOING TO COME.

YOU'VE ALREADY GOT RESIDENTIAL DOWN HERE, AND THIS ONE'S GOING TO BE THE SENIOR HOUSING AT ONE POINT, I THINK THIS, THIS ONE. OH, THAT ONE WAS OKAY. YEAH. BEFORE WE STARTED OUR STONE CREEK VILLAS ON 48TH. RIGHT. BUT WHEN I LOOK AT MY WHEN I LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL PLAN, THERE'S SOME PARK UP HERE. YOU'VE TURNED COMMERCIAL. SO I'M ASSUMING I'M LOSING A LITTLE BIT OF ACREAGE ON COMMERCIAL. AND THERE'S A PARK UP THERE. YEAH, YOU'RE LOSING A LOT OF COMMERCIAL. SO. AND HOW MUCH AM I LOSING ON GREEN SPACE? HOW MUCH AM I LOSING ON GREEN SPACE AS FAR AS I DON'T HAVE THAT I KNOW IT'S IN MY PACKET. CAN WE PULL UP WHAT I'M REFERRING TO THE THE COMMERCIAL BY FLIPPING IT FROM HORIZONTAL TO VERTICAL, MOVING IT FROM HIGHLANDS LOOP ROAD. THE NET LOSS. RIGHT. AND I CALCULATED JUST ABOUT 282 I KNOW, I KNOW THAT YOU TOLD ME THAT. AND I WANTED TO SEE WHAT MR. SEAMAN WOULD TELL ME. SO PUT ME ON THE SPOT IN MY MATH. IT'S IT'S NOT AS GOOD. THERE'S TWO. HERE'S MY TWO. JEFF, I'M LOSING SOME COMMERCIAL. IT MAKES A WHOLE LOT MORE SENSE TO HAVE IT ON 56. AGREED. BUT I'M ALSO LOSING GREEN SPACE AND I'VE GOT 42. AND YOU'RE LOSING GREEN SPACE FROM THE. THERE WAS A PARK AREA ON THE OTHER ON THE NORTH SIDE OF IT. YEAH, THE NORTH ON THE NORTH SIDE THERE WAS A PARK AREA. YEAH. AND I HAD 19 IRKS. AND NOW YOU WANT 42 JUST FOR THE HOMES. AND I THINK THAT LITTLE NUMBER IS STILL A 42. YEAH. AND PLUS COMMERCIAL. SO MY QUESTIONS ARE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GREEN SPACE. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO PUT THAT SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR US I'M LOSING A LITTLE COMMERCIAL. I CAN MAYBE LIVE WITH THAT. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THE WATER AND SEWER CAPACITY? THAT'S ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES. THAT'S THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY APPETITE FOR THIS. BEFORE WE ANSWER ALL THOSE OTHER QUESTIONS AND DIVE INTO IT.

OTHERWISE WE'D BE WE'D BE AT ZONING OR AT THE COUNCIL WITHOUT KNOWING THAT STUFF.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY, YEAH, THIS IS GREAT. WELL, I GUESS WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS IS LIKE, IS THERE ENOUGH OF AN APPETITE THAT WE GO FORWARD WITH SOMETHING LOOKING LIKE

[01:30:05]

THEY HAVE TO WALK DOWN AND AROUND TO GET TO THAT COMMERCIAL, OR THEY HAVE TO WALK ALL THE WAY AROUND AND DOWN THE OTHER SIDE TO GET OUT TOWARDS IAC. YOU GOT NO WALKABILITY IN THERE, AND IT'S THE SAME ISSUE THAT YOU FIXED ON THE OTHER HIGHLAND. TO CONNECT TO THE WALKABILITY IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME. THERE PROBABLY OUGHT TO BE A PATH, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU LIVE ON THAT HOUSE, NUMBER 42, YOU CAN'T YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY OUGHT TO HAVE A PATH THROUGH THE DETENTION POND IN SOMEPLACE ELSE TO MAKE THIS. THEY CAN DRIVE THEIR GOLF CART. YEAH. SO THERE'S GOING TO BE THERE'S GOING TO BE SIDEWALKS ALL THE WAY AROUND. BUT BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT WALKABLE IF YOU'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LIVE IN HOUSE NUMBER 42, YOU'RE GOING TO DRIVE TO IAC, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO WALK THERE. YOU'RE NOT. I WALK TO SMITH'S ALL THE TIME. I MEAN, GRANTED, LIKE I'M SAYING IS THE THE PURPOSE. WHY WE'RE HERE IS TO SEE IF THERE'S AN APPETITE. BUT OF COURSE WE CAN GO THROUGH THE ITERATIONS AND SAY, YEAH, LET'S ADD SOME TRAILS IN HERE. WE DON'T NEED TO PUT A MASONRY FENCE RIGHT HERE. THESE ARE CITY STREETS. SO THEY HAVE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES. YEAH. MAYBE WE DO SOME SORT OF TRAFFIC CROSSING HERE. BUT LIKE AS A BASIC CONCEPT THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. SO I, I'M, I HAVE AN APPETITE FOR IT. AS LONG AS I SEE SOME SORT OF TRAIL TO HELP WITH THE WALKABILITY. WALKABILITY TO WHERE THAT'S WHAT I KEEP HEARING. WALKABILITY AND WALKABILITY. YOU'VE GOT THE COMMERCIAL, YOU'VE GOT HOUSE 42 IS NOT GOING TO WALK ALL THE WAY OVER THERE ANYWAY. MR. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? YOU'RE ASSUMING THEY WON'T WALK IN THE STREET. THEY CAN WALK ON THE SIDEWALK. THEY DON'T NEED A TRAIL TO WALK OVER THERE. IT'S A LONG WALK FROM 42 TO THEY DON'T NEED A TRAIL. THE TRAILS SYSTEM, PART OF THE TRAIL SYSTEMS THAT WE HAVE IN ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, IT JUST IT'S JUST JUST FOR CURIOSITY'S SAKE.

WHAT'S WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRAIL SYSTEM AND A SIDEWALK WHEN YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE LIKE TALKING PRACTICAL USE OTHER THAN THE WIDTH? WELL, I MEAN, LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE A SIDE OR A TRAIL SYSTEM THAT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SIDEWALK, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. DO YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING? SO HAVING A TRAIL VERSUS A SIDEWALK, WHAT'S THE TRADE OFF THERE? I DON'T THINK I DON'T THINK THE SKINNIER THAN ME. SO THE WIDTH DOESN'T MATTER TO ME. I'M JUST SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW 30, 35, 36, 37 IF THEY WERE TRYING TO GO TO COSTA VIDA, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WALK.

THEY'RE JUST NOT. SO IF YOU PUT IT ON A TRAIL, THEY WILL I I'M, I'M BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO WALK I MEAN THEY HAVE TO WALK ALL THE WAY AROUND. IT'S A LONG WALK LIKE THAT ALL OVER THE CITY EVERYWHERE. WELL, BUT THE IDEA IS TO CREATE WALKABILITY IN THE CITY. THAT WAS PART OF THE VISION STATEMENT. I'LL PUT DOWN WALKABILITY, AND WHEN WE COME BACK WITH OUR NEXT ITERATION, WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE IF THIS THING BLOWS UP BECAUSE WE DON'T PUT A TRAIL, WE'RE STUPID.

MY CONCERN, JUST LIKE COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK, IS WATER AND SEWER. AND THOSE ARE THOSE ARE BIG CONCERNS. YEAH. SO THE WALKABILITY DOESN'T BOTHER. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. THIS IS FUNNY. I DON'T I MEAN REALLY WHAT WHAT WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS CONCEPT AND THE ONE THAT WAS BEFORE THAT WE WANTED TO LOOK AT, HAVE IT LOOK AS TRADITIONAL AS POSSIBLE. EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN GARAGE OR GARAGE DRIVEWAY. IF IT'S PARKING, IT'S IT'S YOUR TRADITIONAL, I GUESS MY DENSITY, I THINK ON THE WALKABILITY IS MORE LIKE BECAUSE WE'RE LOSING PART OF THE PARKS, I JUST WANT SOME SORT OF BENEFIT OR SOMETHING OUTDOORS THAT KEEPS PEOPLE OUTSIDE AND IN A COMMUNITY. THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE THE, THE TRAIL. IT'S MORE HAVING A COMMUNITY

[01:35:04]

AND I PAY TO GO THERE. GOTCHA. AND KEEP IN MIND, THAT'S NOT CURRENT ZONING FOR A PARK. IT'S JUST THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WHERE SOMEBODY COULD APPLY FOR ZONING, AND IT'S STILL GREEN SPACE GOING AWAY FROM OUR CITY THAT WE PLAN FOR. JUST. I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IT'S NOT CURRENTLY ZONED AS PART. YEAH, YOU REALLY OUGHT TO. THE DETENTION COLOR THE GREEN SPACE THAT YOU'VE GOT IN THAT DETENTION BASIN ACROSS THE STREET. YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S HUGE.

I MEAN, YOU ALL KNOW THAT. BUT ON YOUR PROPOSED SITE, MAKE IT GREEN THAT WAY. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GOT THE SAME AMOUNT OF GREEN JUST IN A DIFFERENT SPOT. YEAH. WELL, I MEAN, IT'S GREEN.

IT'S JUST IN SOMEBODY'S YARD. AND THE DETENTION CITY DOESN'T HAVE TO PICK UP THE COST. I'VE NOTICED A LOT OF YARDS. NOT A LOT OF GREEN ANYMORE. SORRY. WELL, THE DETENTION PONDS.

GREEN. WHAT'S THAT? DOES THERE HAVE TO BE AN HOA TO DO THE DETENTION POND HAVE TO BE WITH THAT DETENTION POND? YEAH. THE CITY REQUIRES DETENTION PONDS. SO THE CITY REQUIRES FEATURES.

YEAH. SO THE STATE LAW REQUIRES HOA'S AND THE STATE LAW REQUIRES THE DETENTION POND.

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN HOA FOR DETENTION PONDS. SO THE STATE LAWS REQUIRING THE DETENTION POND, UNLESS THE CITY WANTS TO PAY FOR IT. WELL, THEN ONCE AGAIN, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT. THEN YOU'RE. WHAT'S THAT? IT COULD BE BUILT DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT? COULDN'T IT BE AN UNDERGROUND AND THEN THOUSAND SQUARE FEET? SO IT WOULDN'T REQUIRE AN HOA? NO, NO. BECAUSE THE THERE'S SOME SYSTEMS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED ANYWAY. SOME, SOME SOME DEVELOPMENTS ACTUALLY NEEDED THE DETENTION POND TO THE HOUSE. SO THE HOMEOWNER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DETENTION POND. AND SO THEY HAVE THIS THEY HAVE THIS, THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A BIG LOT THAT THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN. AND SOMETIMES GETTING USED. IF YOU HAVE A CREATIVE WAY FOR AVOIDING AN HOA. SO NO, THEY DON'T THEY DON'T HAVE AN HOA. HOA IS THE NATURAL RESULT OF THE REQUIREMENT TO HAVE DETENTION. YOUR PROBLEM THERE BECAUSE THERE'S ONE ON SAPPORO IN WEST JORDAN, THAT'S THAT WAY. AND SO LONG AS THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE MAINTAINS THAT IT WORKS WELL.

BUT ONCE YOU GET SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T AND YOU GOT FLOODING, YOU GOT A BIG PROBLEM. SO, SO DOING IT THIS WAY, LIKE, YEAH, IT'S SADLY SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO DO. SO SO IT DOESN'T FORCE AN HOA BUT IT DOES. BUT BUT IN THIS CASE YOU HAVE SUCH MINIMAL GOING BACK TO THAT THIS SLIDE, YOU HAVE SUCH. I MEAN THE HOA PER RESIDENT, THE THE MONTHLY HOA FEE IS GOING TO BE SUPER SMALL BECAUSE THAT'S ALL IT IS. IT'S JUST A DETENTION. STILL, IF YOU FIND A CREATIVE WAY, WE ARE WIDE OPEN TO THAT AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER CONCEPT, THE OTHER CONCEPT WITH THE HAMMERHEADS. THEN YOU HAVE PRIVATE DRIVES, THEN IT BECOMES A BIGGER UTILITY COST BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO RUN THOSE UTILITIES FURTHER. I MEAN, THIS LANDSCAPING AND FOR SNOW REMOVAL. YEAH. IN ADDITION TO TO JUST NOT FLOWING. RIGHT. TO NOT BE IN I DON'T LIKE THE HAMMERHEAD IDEA AT ALL. THIS IDEA IS MUCH, MUCH BETTER. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. IS THERE APPETITE FOR US TO TO GO BACK TO, TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, TO ADD IN SOME WALKABILITY. AND THEN, AND THEN WE CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION WITH STAFF. WE HAVE A SKILL. WHAT'S THE WIDTH OF THE LOT. THE WHOLE FROM EAST TO WEST. THESE ARE 50. NO FROM THE FROM 56 TO 54. 90. IT'S A BLOCK. IT'S A BLOCK POINT ONE. YEAH. IT'S 1.1. YEAH. OR EVEN FROM THE, FROM THE FIRST

[01:40:06]

YEAH, IT'S NOT EVEN A QUARTER OF A MILE. SO I'M NOT TOO CONCERNED WITH SOMEBODY HAVING TO WALK TO THE END OF THE STREET TO GET AROUND TO GO TO COSTA VIDA. AND REALLY, IF IT'S IF IT'S A DEAL KILLER, WE CAN PUT A, WE CAN PUT A TRAIL RIGHT THERE, SIDEWALK THROUGH AND THEN WE CAN DO SOMETHING HERE. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'D BE GOOD. YEAH. BUT YEAH. OKAY. YOU COME UP WITH IDEAS. YEAH. WE'RE JUST WE'RE JUST NOT TO THAT POINT YET, I KNOW. WELL, I THINK ONCE WE, I, I, I'M, I'M FINE WITH THE APPETITE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THINGS FROM THERE. SO YEAH. YEAH. PEOPLE CAN'T KEEP ASKING FOR MORE SMALLER LOTS IF WE SAY NO TO MORE SMALLER LOTS. WELL, WHAT'S INTERESTING AND IS SO I WORKED AT A TITLE COMPANY AND THAT'S WHERE I GOT ASSOCIATED WITH PETERSON DEVELOPMENT. I CLOSED THEIR SOME OF THEIR TRANSACTIONS AND THE LAST CLOSING I DID FOR THEM BEFORE I WORKED FOR THEM WAS IEHC, AND THAT WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO. AND THEN THE FIRST PROJECT I DID FOR PETERSON IS WE TRIED TO THERE'S A PROPERTY UP HERE ON 5490 THAT WE TRIED TO REZONE THAT BARBERS, AND WE TRIED TO PUT A THIRD ACRE LOTS IN THERE. AND THAT WAS SIX YEARS AGO. AND I REMEMBER THAT. WHAT'S IT, WHAT'S IT BEING ZONED AT RIGHT NOW OR WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO? I DON'T KNOW, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING. I'LL LET THEM TELL YOU THAT. WELL NO, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT THREE ACRE LOTS. BUT WHEN THOSE RESIDENTS WENT AND BEAT US UP OVER 30 ACRE LOTS BECAUSE THEY WERE SITTING ON ONE ACRE LOTS. YEAH, BUT IT WAS MORE OF THE STREET ISSUE THERE WITH, WITH THAT. WELL, 5490 IS GOING TO BE A HUGE ISSUE FOR THE CITY BECAUSE LIKE IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, THE RESIDENTS ON EITHER SIDE OWNED HALF OF THE STREET. SO IN ORDER TO DO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO YOU HAVE TO BUY BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET. SO AND ON THAT PROJECT, THE ONE SIDE OF THE STREET WASN'T WILLING TO WORK WITH THE OTHER SIDE. YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT. BUT BUT THAT WASN'T THAT WASN'T THE ONLY ANSWER. IT WAS FIRE RESPONSE TIME. WE DID HAVE THE FIRE RESPONSE TIME. SO HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM 5490 RESIDENTS ON THIS ONE YET? ON THIS ONE? I MEAN, THIS IS IT'S IT'S GOING TO COME. YEAH. BUT WHAT WAS INTERESTING IS WHEN WE WHEN WE REZONED THIS, THERE WAS ONE NEIGHBOR OVER HERE TO THE EAST WHO CAME, AND SHE WAS ECSTATIC BECAUSE IT WASN'T GOING TO BE A HUGE BUILDING. IT WAS GOING TO BE HOUSING NO MORE YOU. SO LET'S FIRST PROPOSE A BIG, HUGE BUILDING AND THEN COME BACK WITH THIS. YES. WHAT KIND OF FENCING WILL BE REQUIRED ON THE NORTH SIDE? ON THE NORTH SIDE? IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. TAYLOR'S GONE, BUT RAY MIGHT KNOW. IT'S PROBABLY VINYL. SIX FOOT VINYL ON THE NORTH SIDE. NORTH SIDE. VINYL. YEAH. IT'S UP TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO DECIDE. OF COURSE.

HERE WOULD BE BECAUSE IT'S COMMERCIAL MASONRY. MASONRY. MASONRY WOULD BE THEIR FINAL BLOCK. I KNOW, BUT I KIND OF FEEL LIKE SOUTH TO THE NORTH. EVEN THOUGH IT'S AGRICULTURE, IT'S A COMMERCIAL USE. MAYBE THERE'S A THERE'S A FIVE ACRE PARCEL IN BETWEEN. YEAH. IT DOESN'T ABUT THE FARM. IT'S IT'S ABUTS THE ONE THAT ABUTS THE FARM. AND THAT'S WHERE.

THAT'S WHERE THE TRANSFER OF DEVELOPMENT. SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CONCERNS, I MEAN, OR YOUR FEEDBACK. ARE WE GOOD TO PROCEED. AND PRETTY THIS UP. JUST MAKE SURE THAT AMERICANS RENT DOESN'T BUY IT. IT'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING. IT'S A FLUID SITUATION. I'LL TAKE THAT BACK TO MY TEAM. AND ESSENTIALLY WE JUST DON'T WANT TO. AS SOON AS WE'RE SITTING HERE, I TEXTED OUR TEAM AND SAID, THIS IS THIS IS THE DISCUSSION. WELL, NO, IT'S A CONCERN. WELL, IF THE IF THE INTENTION IS OWNER OCCUPIED, I MEAN, YOU CAN'T ENFORCE THAT, BUT THE INTENTIONS ARE OCCUPIED.

I HOW MANY ACRES IS THAT? TOTAL IS ABOUT NINE. CAN WE MAKE THIS A CAN WE MAKE THIS A HOP? Z.

CAN YOU BUY A HALF ACRE .8.87. THIS IS ON THE NORTH PART, AN ACRE RIGHT UP HERE. AND TURN THAT INTO A HOT SEAT FOR ME. SO HUBS HAS TO BE TEN OR LESS, SO THIS COULD STILL BE. IT'S TEN OR TEN OR LESS. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT WE MIGHT PREFER YOU USE. THEN YOU JUST

[01:45:06]

I MEAN, BECAUSE THAT'S THE OTHER THING. ECONOMICALLY IT HAS TO WORK. WELL, PLEASE CONSIDER THAT. NO, I MEAN, AND WE'RE OPEN FOR ANYTHING I DO. I MEAN, YOU DIDN'T ASK MY OPINION, BUT I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU. I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF TALKING AS A DEVELOPER TO YOU, SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE AND HEAR FROM MULTIPLE. I MEAN, WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE, WHERE WE'D LIKE TO GO AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC. HOLDOUTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AS LONG AS WE KNOW THE RULES AND I MEAN, WE'LL FIGHT WITH NESTOR A LITTLE BIT, BUT AS LONG AS WE HAVE CLEAR GUIDELINES ON WHAT WE NEED TO DO, WE PREFER THAT. DEED RESTRICTIONS. AT ONE POINT, THE AVERAGE LENGTH OF HOMEOWNER WAS SEVEN YEARS. SO TO HAVE A GREATER THAN FIVE YEAR DEED RESTRICTION MAKES IT REALLY TOUGH. AND ESPECIALLY IF LIKE YOU'RE TALKING LIKE YOUR FIRST TIME HOMEBUYER, YOUNG FAMILY BUYS THIS AND MOVES IN AND DOESN'T HAVE A BABY, BUT THEN A BABY AFTER FIVE YEARS, OR HAVE MORE KIDS AND NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE. I UNDERSTAND LIKE A FIVE YEAR DEED RESTRICTION. I JUST SAID SEVEN WAS THE AVERAGE. SO YEAH, BECAUSE. THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW THOUGH. I MEAN, THESE ARE THESE ARE JUST THINGS YOU, YOU DON'T WANT TO HANDCUFF PEOPLE. BECAUSE, WELL THEN THEN THEY DON'T GET SOLD. YEAH. WOW. TOO MUCH. THEN THEY GET SOLD. I'M LOOKING AT I'M LOOKING AT THAT. AND THE ONLY THERE'S ONLY ONE STREET THAT REQUIRES SPEED, SPEED CONTROL POINTS. AND BECAUSE BECAUSE MOST OF THE ROADS, THOSE HOUSES ARE 50. IF THOSE HOUSES IF THOSE LOTS ARE 50FT WIDE, THE ONLY STREET THAT'S GOT TEN HOUSES OR MORE IS THE FAR NORTH ONE. YEAH. SO YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE IN THE MIDDLE AND CALL IT GOOD. YEAH. YOU COULD PUT A ROUNDABOUT. YOU'RE TROLLING ME.

NO, NO, NO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. PEDESTRIAN. PEDESTRIAN? YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU DO IS YOU PUT THE BULB OUT. THAT'S WHERE EVERYBODY HAS TO WALK TO THE MAILBOX. RIGHT, RIGHT. MAILBOX RIGHT THERE. SO SORRY. THIS IS MY SECOND TIME I WANTED THESE WORK SESSIONS. WE'RE GOOD TO PROCEED. OR WHAT? LIKE THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR OF US, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW, ARE THERE FOUR OF YOU? I NEED TO KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GETTING THE WATER AND STUFF BEFORE I TELL YOU THAT YOU'RE OKAY. BUT YOU WANT ME TO PUT MY CART BEFORE YOUR HORSE? THAT YOU WANT ME TO PUT MY CART BEFORE YOURS? NO, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE UNDERSTANDING WHAT I'M SAYING. NOW, WITH YOUR BLESSING TO PROCEED WITH THIS. AND NOW WE CAN WORK ON THOSE ISSUES. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GIVE YOU A BLESSING YET, BUT YOU'VE GOT FOUR, AND THAT'S ALL YOU NEED.

PERFECT. GIDDY UP. ALL RIGHT, HITCH UP THAT WAGON. NOPE. THANK YOU, MISTER SEAMAN. YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED, ALAN. YEAH. THAT'S RIGHT. I KNOW. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I THOUGHT YOU'D COME BY, SO THAT'S GOOD. SO I WILL CALL THIS. MEETING ADJOURNED. WE WILL BE MEETING AS THE BOARD OF CANVASSERS AT 630. SO PLEASE BE IN THERE WITH YOUR BRIGHT, SUNNY FACES.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.