TECHNICALLY YOUR SALT LAKE, SALT LAKE COMMUNITY COLLEGE BASEBALL AND BASKETBALL. YEAH. 
          [CALL TO ORDER]
          [00:00:07]
THAT'S RIGHT. DOESN'T SAY. WE ALSO WANT TO SEE. GOOD EVENING. IT IS SEPTEMBER 9TH. WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN OUR WORK MEETING FOR THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. WE HAVE ALL OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS HERE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM, WHO IS EXCUSED FOR THE EVENING. AND MANY, MANY PEOPLE FROM STAFF AND ELSEWHERE JOINING US TONIGHT. SO WELCOME 
          [a.
 Presentation of the Impact Fee Facilities Plan (IFFP) and Impact Fee Analysis (IFA) for the proposed updates to road impact fees]
EVERYONE. WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN WITH A PRESENTATION ON THE IMPACT FEE PLAN AND IMPACT ANALYSIS BY MR. MR. CORBIN LEE WOULD LIKE TO START AND MR. PHILPOT WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO TURN THE TIME OVER TO FRED PHILPOTT TO JEREMY WITH WCG. NATE NELSON OUR TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER, AND BECKY WHO HAS BEEN OUR STAFF MEMBER TO SPEARHEAD THIS ISSUE. 
          BUT I WANT TO PREFACE THIS ISSUE. WE'VE BEEN WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THIS STUDY, WORKING THROUGH THE FEE PROPOSALS. IT'S GIVEN ME A HUGE APPRECIATION FOR HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO BE A COUNCIL MEMBER, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO PUT A HARD POLICY DECISION IN FRONT OF YOU WITH THIS STUDY AND THESE IMPACT FEES. A LITTLE HISTORY BACK IN ABOUT THE EARLY 2000, THE LEGISLATURE SAID, HEY, CITIES, YOU CAN KEEP CHARGING IMPACT FEES, BUT YOU GOT TO DO AN ANALYSIS AND A JUSTIFICATION ON THE IMPACT FEES OR CHARGING. THERE HAS TO BE A STUDY DONE, AND THAT STUDY HAS TO BE CERTIFIED. SO MANY CITIES, MOST CITIES STARTED PIVOTING AND HAVING THEIR IMPACT FEES RATES BEING JUSTIFIED, STUDIED, ANALYZED BY THIRD PARTY INDEPENDENT PARTIES. WE DID THAT. WE DID THAT BACK IN 2013. WE DID AN UPDATE IN 2016, BUT IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE DONE AN IMPACT FEE STUDY SPECIFICALLY FOR ROADS. WE JUST DID ONE RECENTLY FOR WATER, WASTEWATER, STORM WATER. BUT NOW WE'RE HERE WITH ROADS TONIGHT. AND COSTS HAVE GROWN DRAMATICALLY IN THAT INTERVENING PERIOD. YOU CAN IMAGINE INFLATION HAS GONE UP A FAIR AMOUNT SINCE 2013, BUT ROAD CONSTRUCTION COSTS IN PARTICULAR HAVE REALLY GONE UP. I WOULD SAY THEY'VE OUTPACED INFLATION. BRIAN, IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? WHENEVER I HEAR BRIAN TALK ABOUT THE COST OF ASPHALT OR CONCRETE, IT MAKES MY EYES WATER. SO WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE STUDY TODAY. TODAY IS ABOUT PRESENTING THE STUDY TO YOU BY THE EXPERTS WHO DID THE STUDY. THIS STUDY IS TWO PARTS. FIRST IS A STUDY DONE BY WALL CONSULTING GROUP ON THE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS IN OUR CITY OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS DUE TO GROWTH, THOSE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS ARE THROUGHOUT THE CITY. HOW WILL ROADS NEED TO GROW? HOW WILL INTERSECTIONS NEED TO GROW? BECAUSE OUR CITY IS GROWING? AND THEN HOW HAS THAT? HOW WILL ALL THOSE ROAD GROWING ROADS BE PAID FOR? HOW MUCH WILL THEY COST? SO THAT WAS ONE STUDY. THEN THE SECOND STUDY WAS OKAY, BASED ON THOSE COSTS, HOW SHOULD THOSE COSTS BE APPORTIONED OUT TO DIFFERENT TYPES OF GROWTH AND WHAT'S JUSTIFIABLE? THESE STUDIES TODAY WILL SET THE CEILING OF WHAT CAN BE CHARGED THE MAXIMUM POSSIBLE RATE THAT WE CAN LEVY AS AN IMPACT FEE. IT DOESN'T MEAN THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO LEVY AS AN IMPACT FEE. WE JUST CANNOT EXCEED THIS BECAUSE OUR INDEPENDENT STUDY SAYS WE CAN'T JUSTIFY HIGHER THAN THIS. THE WHEN I SAID AT THE START, THIS GIVES ME AN APPRECIATION FOR HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO BE A COUNCIL MEMBER. THE HARD POLICY ISSUE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE IS WHERE DO YOU SET THIS RATE? HOW DO YOU SET? YOU HAVE A CEILING THAT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY HIGH, AND YOU CAN GO ALL THE WAY UP TO THERE. BUT AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, YOU'VE GOT TO CONSIDER ALL KINDS OF FACTORS. NESTOR'S JOB IS A PIECE OF CAKE. 
          NESTOR. JUST KIDDING. I'M KIDDING. NESTOR HAS A VERY HARD JOB, BUT NESTOR ONLY HAS TO CONSIDER THE TRANSPORTATION TRAFFIC ENGINEERING PERSPECTIVE. HE HAS THAT PERSPECTIVE. AS A COUNCIL MEMBER, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT TRAFFIC ENGINEERING PERSPECTIVE. BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT, THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE GENERAL FUND, THE PERSPECTIVE OF FUTURE PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE LEGISLATURE, THE PERSPECTIVE OF DEVELOPERS, THE PERSPECTIVE OF SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES, THE PERSPECTIVE OF OTHER EQUITY ISSUES. AND THAT'S A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT THING TO 
          [00:05:04]
BALANCE. AND SO AS YOU CONSIDER THESE IMPACT FEES, WE RECOGNIZE THE STAFF THAT YOU WILL YOU'LL HAVE A DIFFICULT POLICY DECISION TO FACE AFTER WE PRESENT THE STUDY AND THE STUDY RESULTS TO YOU. WE WANT TO KEEP IN MIND A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS. AS CITIES, WE LIKE TO COMPARE OUR FEES WITH THE FEES BEING CHARGED BY OTHER CITIES. I'M THE BEST AT THIS. I ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW, HEY, WHAT ARE WE CHARGING TO RENT A PAVILION? WHAT DO THEY CHARGE ACROSS THE STREET TO RENT A PAVILION? WHAT DO WE CHARGE FOR? WATER? WHAT DO THEY CHARGE FOR WATER? WHAT DO WE CHARGE FOR? YOU KNOW, YOU NAME IT. WE'RE ALWAYS COMPARING WITH HOW OTHER CITIES FEES ARE SIMILAR TO OURS. WE DON'T WANT TO BE TOO FAR AHEAD OF THE GAME. WE DON'T WANT TO BE TOO FAR BACK. THAT DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL WITH IMPACT FEES, BECAUSE IMPACT FEES ARE MEANT FOR GROWTH TO PAY FOR THE IMPACT ON INFRASTRUCTURE TO SERVE THAT GROWTH. AND SO CITIES THAT ARE MOSTLY BUILT OUT, OR RATHER THE BETTER INDICATOR IS CITIES THAT ARE MOSTLY HAVE THEIR CITY SATURATED BY INFRASTRUCTURE, HAVE MUCH LOWER IMPACT NEEDS, CITIES THAT STILL HAVE MAJOR INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS DUE TO GROWTH WILL HAVE MUCH HIGHER IMPACT FEE NEEDS AND HENCE MUCH HIGHER IMPACT FEES. SO OUR IMPACT FEES BY NATURE SHOULD BE NOTHING LIKE MIDVALE OR MURRAY OR SANDY OR, YOU KNOW, TAKE YOUR PICK OF A BUILT OUT CITY. BUT OUR IMPACT FEES MIGHT BE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO ANOTHER CITY THAT'S IN A HIGH GROWTH AREA, WITH A LOW INFRASTRUCTURE SATURATION, LIKE A TOOELE COUNTY OR AN EAGLE MOUNTAIN OR A POSSIBLY A HARRIMAN. AND THEY MIGHT BE. BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO TAKE INTO EFFECT THE COST OF THE LAND FOR THOSE ROADS AS WELL. SO IF YOU GO OUT TO A WILLOW OR AN EAGLE MOUNTAIN, THE COST OF LAND IS FAR LESS PER ACRE THAN US BUILDING A ROAD IN OUR CITY WHERE WE'RE IN SALT LAKE COUNTY. SO THERE'S ALSO THAT INFLUENCE. YOU MAY LOOK AT EAGLE MOUNTAIN'S IMPACT AND GO, OKAY, WELL, WE'RE PRETTY CLOSE. WE'RE HIGH GROWTH, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. BUT THE COST OF LAND AND DEVELOPMENT, EAGLE MOUNTAIN IS FAR LESS THAN THE COST OF LAND AND DEVELOPMENT HERE IN SALT LAKE COUNTY. YEAH. ONE LAST THING TO TO SHARE WITH YOU. WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT THESE STUDIES TO YOU. AND WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS POSSIBLE BIG INCREASE IN OUR IMPACT FEE, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T KEPT UP WITH THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY CONSISTENTLY. WE CHOOSE NOT TO ADOPT THE FULL RATE. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S GOING TO BE THE TOUGH POLICY DECISION TO MAKE. THE TRADE OFF WILL BE AND THE HARD PART OF THE DECISION WILL BE KEEPING UP WITH THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY ON COMPLETING THOSE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS. EVERY TIME WE WE SAY, OKAY, THE IMPACT OF NOT ADOPTING THE FULL RATE MEANS SOME OF OUR PROJECTS GET KICKED DOWN THE ROAD. THAT'S FINE. BUT EVERY YEAR THOSE PROJECTS GET KICKED DOWN THE ROAD. THOSE PROJECTS GET MORE EXPENSIVE. THAT'S GOING TO BE A VERY, VERY TOUGH TRADE OFF. WE UNDERSTAND THAT. WE RECOGNIZE THAT. WE KNOW THAT YOU'RE WRESTLING WITH THAT ISSUE. SO WE WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT AGAIN NOW THE STUDY TO YOU. WE HAD TENTATIVELY PLANNED FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING NEXT COUNCIL MEETING ON THIS, BUT WE RECOGNIZE THERE MAY BE MORE NEED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE AN ADOPTION OF THESE RATES. BASED ON WHAT YOU HEAR TODAY, AND THEN BASED ON FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE LEVEL TO ADOPT. SO WITH WITH THAT LONG PREFACE, I WANT TO TURN A LITTLE BIT OF TIME OVER TO FRED PHILPOTT, TO JEREMY, TO NATE AND BECKY. YOU GUYS, COME ON, COME ON UP. OKAY. COME ON. STAND. THANK YOU. I'LL BE DOING THE TALKING FOR A LITTLE BIT, SO I'LL STAND UP. ALRIGHTY. AS CORBIN INDICATED, OUR TEAM WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLETING THE ANALYZES RELATIVE TO THE IMPACT FEE CALCULATIONS. WE HAVE THE IMPACT FEE FACILITIES PLAN REQUIREMENT AND THE IMPACT FEE ANALYSIS OR PROPORTIONAL SHARE ANALYSIS. THE IMPACT FEE FACILITIES PLAN IDENTIFIES SEVERAL ELEMENTS RELATIVE TO STATUTE, LIKE DEMAND AND LEVEL OF SERVICE, AND THE CAPITAL FACILITIES NECESSARY TO SERVE GROWTH. THE IMPACT FEE ANALYSIS TAKES ALL THAT INFORMATION, ENSURES THAT IT'S EQUITABLY, EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED, AND ESTABLISHES A FEE SCHEDULE BASED ON DIFFERENT LAND USES. 
          AS CORBIN INDICATED, THIS IS A MAXIMUM. SO WE'RE WE'RE ESTABLISHING THAT CEILING, 
          [00:10:01]
RECOGNIZING THAT THE STATUTE ALLOWS YOU TO ADOPT, MODIFY OR REJECT IMPACT FEES ALTOGETHER. 
          SO YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT AN IMPACT FEE OF $0 UP TO THE SCHEDULE THAT WE PRESENT. IN ADDITION, IMPACT FEES, WHILE WE PROMOTE EQUITY WITHIN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF IMPACT FEES AND THE SCHEDULE, THERE IS STILL A LAW OF AVERAGES THAT APPLY. SO WE LOOK AT AVERAGES WITHIN THE LAND USES, AND SOME ENTITIES OPT TO CONSOLIDATE SCHEDULES AND SHOW A MORE SIMPLIFIED IMPACT FEE SCHEDULE. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. AND WE LOOK AT THE FINAL SLIDE HERE. I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IMPACT FEES ARE ONE TIME FEE ON NEW DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES. SO THIS IS A FEE ESTABLISHED AND ASSESSED AT A SINGLE POINT IN THAT DEVELOPMENT CYCLE, USUALLY AT BUILDING PERMIT. IT IS NOT A FEE ASSESSED YOUR GENERAL POPULATION. IT'S FOR THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS AS I GO THROUGH THE SLIDE, FEEL FREE TO TO CHIME IN. I DON'T I DON'T NEED TO GET THROUGH ALL OF THIS TO ADDRESS QUESTIONS, SO JUST LET ME KNOW. PROCESS WISE, THE STATUTE INDICATES THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ANALYSIS. WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH NOTICING PROCEDURES. WE NEED TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING. THEN YOU TAKE ACTION AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY. ONCE YOU TAKE ACTION, WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE TO ADOPT RELATIVE TO YOUR IMPACT FEE SCHEDULE, THERE'S A 90 DAY WAIT PERIOD BEFORE THAT BECOMES EFFECTIVE. 
          THE STATUTE ACTUALLY INDICATES THAT IF THERE'S A CHANGE IN THE IMPACT FEE, THERE'S A 90 DAY WAIT PERIOD. BUT TYPICALLY BY PRACTICE, WE INSTITUTE THE 90 DAY WAIT PERIOD FOR ANY INCREASE. IF WE SHOW A DECREASE TO THE TO THOSE FEES, THOSE ARE ADOPTED IMMEDIATELY. OTHERWISE OUR REPORTS WOULD BE THE JUSTIFICATION FOR DEVELOPERS TO SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO BE CHARGED LESS, JUST HAND IN OUR DOCUMENT. SO MOST ENTITIES MAKE THAT EFFECTIVE. ALL RIGHTY. WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT IMPACT FEES, EVERY IMPACT FEE REALLY SHOULD BE CENTERED ON THESE ELEMENTS. 
          SO OUR IMPACT FEE FACILITIES PLAN AND OUR IMPACT FEE ANALYSIS INCLUDES ALL OF THESE STEPS HERE. HOW WE APPLY THEM ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FOR THE SERVICE THAT WE LOOK AT. 
          BUT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SERVICE AREA AND DEMAND. IN THIS CASE, WE'RE LOOKING AT TRIP GENERATION NOW. AND AS WE LOOK INTO THE FUTURE, OUR FUTURE WINDOW IS TYPICALLY AT AN IS A TEN YEAR WINDOW. SOME WILL DO FIVE YEARS. IT'S NOT TYPICAL THAT WE GO BEYOND A TEN YEAR WINDOW. THAT THAT STANDARD OF PRACTICE COMES FROM THE REQUIREMENT WITHIN THE IMPACT FEE CODE TO EXPAND YOUR IMPACT FEES WITHIN SIX YEARS FROM THE DATE YOU COLLECTED. SO THERE'S ESSENTIALLY A ROLLING WINDOW RECOGNIZING THAT WE'RE GOING TO SIT ON THIS STUDY MAYBE FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS. SO WE LOOK AT THAT TEN YEAR WINDOW. SO OUR OUR ANALYSIS OF THE SERVICE AREA AND DEMAND IS REALLY FOCUSED ON WHAT DO WE THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS RELATIVE TO GROWTH. THEN WE NEED TO LOOK AT AN INVENTORY OF EXISTING FACILITIES AND DETERMINE WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW ON THE GROUND, PROVIDING YOUR LEVEL OF SERVICE. WE NEED TO ESTABLISH AN EXISTING AND FUTURE LEVEL OF SERVICE. THE IMPACT FEE NEEDS TO ENSURE THAT THE FEE CALCULATED MAINTAINS THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE, OR IF YOU INCREASE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE, THAT THERE'S A MECHANISM OTHER THAN IMPACT FEES TO RAISE THE LEVEL OF SERVICE FOR YOUR EXISTING RESIDENTS. SO WE CAN'T USE IMPACT FEES AND RAISE THAT AT A LEVEL THAT NOW MITIGATES ANY DEFICIENCIES FOR YOUR EXISTING DEVELOPMENT. WE HAVE TO ENSURE THAT COMES FROM SOME OTHER FUNDING MECHANISM. THEN WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW WE UTILIZE EXISTING FACILITIES AND FUTURE FACILITIES TO SERVE GROWTH. GOING BACK TO THAT LAW OF AVERAGES, OFTEN IT'S BOTH OF THESE ELEMENTS, THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE, PLUS THE NEW FACILITIES COMBINED TOGETHER THAT FEED INTO OUR IMPACT FEE EQUATION. 
          AS CORBIN INDICATED, THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE HIGH GROWTH, A LOT OF FUTURE INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS THAT SWING, THAT PENDULUM SWINGS TOWARDS THE FUTURE FACILITY, WHICH IS A HIGHER COST PER UNIT, USUALLY RESULTING IN A HIGHER FEE, WHEREAS COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MORE FOCUSED ON BY IN PENDULUM SWINGS TOWARDS HISTORIC COST. BECAUSE THE STATUTE REQUIRES THAT IF WE BUY INTO EXISTING FACILITIES, WE HAVE TO USE THE ORIGINAL COST OF THAT ASSET. SO WE PURCHASED THIS PURCHASE, THAT ASSET, IN 1970. WE USED THE COST IN 1970. WHEREAS FUTURE ASSETS, WE'RE USING THE ESTIMATED FUTURE COST INCLUDING INFLATION. SO DEPENDING ON THE COMMUNITY, THAT PENDULUM WILL SWING, RESULTING IN A HIGHER OR LOWER IMPACT FEE. WHEN WE GET TO THE IMPACT FEE SCHEDULE. STEP FIVE WE NEED TO CONSIDER ALL REVENUE SOURCES TO FINANCE SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS. SO IF WE HAVE ALTERNATIVE FUNDING MECHANISM, YOU'LL NOTICE, FOR 
          [00:15:03]
EXAMPLE, IN THE IF WCG, ALONG WITH STAFF IDENTIFIED FUNDING SOURCES FROM UDOT, WFC, STATE DOLLARS THAT WOULD COME IN TO HELP OFFSET PROJECTS. SO SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THOSE ELEMENTS. 
          IN ADDITION, ENTITIES MAY UTILIZE BONDING, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO ISSUE DEBT. WE WANT TO BUILD A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS IN A THREE YEAR PERIOD RATHER THAN A TEN YEAR PERIOD. WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND POTENTIALLY INCLUDE THE FINANCING COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT MECHANISM. SO THERE'S INTEREST EXPENSE AND COST OF ISSUANCE THAT COULD BE POTENTIALLY PULLED IN. SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THOSE ELEMENTS. AND THAT CAN INFLUENCE THE CALCULATION OF FEE. AND THEN WE GET TO THE SIXTH STEP WHICH IS THE PROPORTIONATE SHARE ANALYSIS. REALLY. THIS IS A WHAT I VIEW AS A LARGE WORD FOR DIVISION. WE'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING OKAY, LET'S TAKE ALL OF THAT AND SAY HOW DO WE DIVIDE THAT UP AMONGST EXISTING AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENT TO ENSURE THAT IT'S EQUITABLE OR FAIR IN HOW WE ASSESS THAT FEE? ALRIGHTY, I'M GOING TO PROVIDE A FEW DETAILS HERE RELATIVE TO THOSE SIX STEPS. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A SUMMARY. SO WE HAVE THE IMPACT FEE FACILITIES PLAN AND IMPACT FEE ANALYSIS READY THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT. IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, WE CAN DIVE INTO THE DETAILS OF THESE, THESE SIX ELEMENTS. BUT WITH REGARDS TO SERVICE AREA WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE MUNICIPAL BOUNDARY. THERE WERE SOME RECENT ANNEXATIONS THAT HAPPENED WHERE WE'RE INCLUDING THAT THOSE CHANGES AS WELL IN THE STUDY AREA, OUR EXISTING INVENTORY IS BASED ON YOUR DEPRECIATION SCHEDULE. SO YOU INCLUDE IN YOUR FINANCING OR FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS A LIST OF ASSETS AND THEIR VALUE. WE INCLUDE THAT IN OUR EVALUATION WHEN ESTABLISHING THE LEVEL OF SERVICE BASED ON YOUR MASTER PLAN AND THE IMPACT THE FACILITIES PLAN, WE'RE LOOKING AT A LEVEL OF SERVICE D FOR ARTERIAL AND COLLECTOR ROADWAYS. I DO WANT TO POINT OUT HERE WE'RE WE'RE CLASSIFYING THESE ESSENTIALLY AS YOUR SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS. ARTERIALS AND COLLECTORS. THE IMPACT FEE LEGISLATION REQUIRES THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT AN IMPACT FEE CALCULATION, WE INCLUDE ONLY SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS IN THE CALCULATION OF FEE. THERE WILL BE PROJECT IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE FUNDED BY THE DEVELOPER AS PART OF THEIR SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT, AND THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE NON-SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS, OR THEY ARE SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS BUT OWNED BY ANOTHER ENTITY LIKE A UDOT, FOR EXAMPLE, OR OR A COUNTY ROAD. SO WE'RE ISOLATING WHAT ARE THE SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE OWNED OR OPERATED ON BEHALF OF THE CITY? AND THAT'S WHAT GOES INTO OUR LEVEL OF SERVICE EVALUATION HERE. WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR EXISTING AND FUTURE FACILITIES, WE'RE BRINGING IN BOTH. SO YOUR PROPOSED INFRASTRUCTURE WILL CONNECT TO YOUR EXISTING BACKBONE. AND WE'VE PROPORTIONALLY ALLOCATED YOUR EXISTING SYSTEM AND THE FUTURE FACILITIES WHEN LOOKING AT OUR FEE WHEN IT COMES TO NEW OR THE ADDITIONAL REVENUE RESOURCES WE ARE, WE ARE INCLUDING THOSE ALTERNATIVE FUNDING MECHANISMS LIKE STATE DOLLARS. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT INCLUDING ANY BONDING, SO THERE'S NO INTEREST EXPENSE OR COST OF ISSUANCE. BUT THERE IS INFLATION. SO AS WE IN OUR CIP TIMELINE OR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT TIMELINES, AS WE LOOK AT THE TIMING OF THOSE PROJECTS, WE'VE INCLUDED INFLATION FOR THOSE FUTURE PROJECTS ALREADY. AS WE LOOK AT THE TOTALS HERE, THE IFSP BREAKS THE PROJECTS INTO OR SYSTEM IMPROVEMENTS INTO TWO BUCKETS. OUR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS AT APPROXIMATELY $23.2 MILLION OF INVESTMENT IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS, AND THEN INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS AT APPROXIMATELY $21.4 MILLION, WHICH INCLUDES INFLATION IN THESE NUMBERS. SO AGAIN, WE LOOKED AT TAKING THAT DATA AND SAYING, OKAY, BASED ON TIMING AND APPLYING THE INFLATION RATE, WHAT WHAT DOES THAT COST LOOK LIKE? ALRIGHTY. SO HERE IS A TABLE THAT SHOWS THE PROPORTIONATE SHARE CALCULATION. 
          WE HAVE OUR BUCKETS HERE. SO OUR EXISTING FACILITIES HERE AT THE TOP. THIS IS THE TOTAL QUALIFIED COSTS THAT WE'RE INCLUDING IN THE CALCULATION. THE FEE IS NOT IT IS NOT THE TOTAL VALUE OF YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WE REMOVED ASSETS THAT HAD A USEFUL LIFE OF LESS THAN TEN YEARS. SO YOU CAN'T INCLUDE THOSE TYPES OF ASSETS. AND WE'VE EXCLUDED ANYTHING THAT LOOKED LIKE A PROJECT IMPROVEMENT WITHIN YOUR DEPRECIATION SCHEDULE. AND THEN WE PROPORTIONALLY ALLOCATE THAT BASED ON THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE. SO THAT'S WHY THAT PERCENTAGE IS FAIRLY LOW. WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, YOUR FUTURE FACILITIES, THOSE PERCENTAGES ARE A LOT LARGER. ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS THIS VALUE SERVES THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF YOUR EXISTING AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. AND EVEN BEYOND OUR TEN YEAR WINDOW BENEFITS EVERYBODY ON THE SYSTEM. AND THEN WE HAVE OUR FUTURE FACILITIES, THE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS AND THE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS. HERE ARE THE COSTS AND OUR COST TO 
          [00:20:04]
NEW GROWTH HERE, THAT 23,000,021 MILLION, RESPECTIVELY. THAT IS ISOLATING THE TOTAL COST HERE AND SAYING BASED ON OUR TEN YEAR DEMAND AND A TRAVEL DEMAND MODEL ANALYSIS OF EACH ROAD SEGMENT, WE ALLOCATED A PERCENTAGE OF EACH PROJECT TO OUR TEN YEAR GROUP. IN ADDITION, THE. SO THIS IS WHERE JEREMY'S EXCELLENT MIND AND SOFTWARE COMES INTO PLAY. THERE ARE OTHER VARIABLES THAT AFFECT THIS. SO WE HAVE OUR TEN YEAR GROWTH. BUT WE ALSO HAVE WHAT'S CALLED PASS THROUGH TRAFFIC. THAT IS THE TRAFFIC THAT GOES THROUGH THE CITY THAT WHILE IT IMPACTS YOUR ROAD, IT IS NOT INSTIGATED BY NEW DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY. SO WE HAVE TO REMOVE THAT PERCENTAGE AND THAT HAS TO BE MANAGED BY SOME OTHER FUNDING MECHANISM. THIS IS ESSENTIALLY ISOLATING WHAT THE IMPACT IS FROM OUR TENURE GROWTH WITHIN THAT SERVICE AREA. AND THAT'S HOW WE GET THESE COSTS HERE. AND THEN THERE'S SOME PROFESSIONAL EXPENSE THAT'S ESSENTIALLY OUR COST TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS ANALYSIS. 
          AND THAT CAN BE INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATION OF FEE. AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S NOT A HUGE CHUNK OF THAT, THAT OVERALL FEE, WHEN YOU BRING ALL THAT TOGETHER, WE GET A COST OF $558.27 PER TRIP, AND THAT IS OUR BASE FEE PER UNIT. FOR THE PURPOSES OF ESTABLISHING THIS TABLE, WHICH TAKES THAT BASE FEE PER TRIP, AND THEN APPLIES THAT BASED ON THE LAND USES, POTENTIAL LAND USES WITHIN THE CITY. NOW, THIS SCHEDULE IS PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE AND WE COULD HAVE ACTUALLY A LOT MORE LAND USES HERE ON THIS LIST. WHERE WE GENERATE THIS INFORMATION IS FROM WHAT'S CALLED THE ITE MANUAL OR INSTITUTE OF TRAFFIC ENGINEERS MANUAL. THEY ESSENTIALLY DO SURVEYS OF LAND USES AND DETERMINE THE AVERAGE TRIP RATE FOR THESE LAND USES. 
          WE APPLY THAT DATA HERE. YOU CAN SEE THESE EQUATION THIS THIS DATA. HERE WE TAKE THOSE TRIPS APPLY ANY PASS BY REDUCTION WE GET NEW TRIPS. WE MULTIPLY OUR NEW TRIPS BY OUR FEE PER TRIP. THAT $558. AND WE GET WE GET OUR FEE PER LAND USE PER UNIT. SO LET'S TAKE A SINGLE FAMILY. THAT'S USUALLY THE EASIEST FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND. SINGLE FAMILY IS ON A PER DWELLING BASIS HERE. SO YOU CAN SEE OUR DEMAND UNIT IS DWELLING UNITS, SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNIT PER UNIT GENERATES ON AVERAGE 9.43 TRIPS PER UNIT. THERE'S TYPICALLY WE DON'T HAVE A PASS BY ADJUSTMENT. MEANING THE TRIP THAT LEAVES THERE IS THAT IS COUNTED AS ONE TRIP. SO WE TAKE THAT VARIABLE, THE 9.43. MULTIPLY IT BY THAT PREVIOUS NUMBER HERE OF THE 558. 
          AND THAT PRODUCES OUR FEE PER UNIT OF $5000 TO $5264. WE DO THAT FOR ALL OF THESE LAND USE LAND USES. AND YOU CAN SEE THE DEMAND UNIT VARIES. SO FOR OUR NONRESIDENTIAL IT'S TYPICALLY ON A PER 1000 SQUARE FOOT BASIS. SO YOU WOULD TAKE THE FEE HERE. THE CALCULATION OF THE FEE. AND LOOK AT YOUR NONRESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. SAY IF I HAD 2000FT■!S THAT WOULD BE TWO UNI. 
          IT WOULD BE TWO TIMES THE PROPOSED FEE IN THIS COLUMN HERE FOR WHATEVER LAND USE THAT, THAT THAT MIGHT BE IN. SOME OF THESE ARE ON A PER STUDENT WE HAVE PER ROOM. BUT BUT THIS IS A FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE FEE SCHEDULE WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT LAND USES. 
          SOME ENTITIES OPT TO CONSOLIDATE THAT AND DO MORE OF A GENERALIZED APPROACH WHERE THEY SAY, WELL, WE WANT TO LOOK AT MAYBE SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY AND HAVE THAT AS OUR CATEGORY. WE'LL WE'LL PICK A GENERAL INDUSTRIAL CATEGORY AS A LAND USE. THEY MAY PICK A GENERAL OFFICE AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT IN OUR SCHEDULE. AND THEN WE MAY USE SHOPPING CENTERS, OUR AS OUR COMMERCIAL CATEGORY. KIND OF A CATCH ALL FOR THAT RETAIL ELEMENT OF OUR FEE. SO RATHER THAN HAVING A WHOLE LOT OF DETAIL, SOME COMMUNITIES WILL OPT TO CONSOLIDATE THAT SCHEDULE AND USE MORE OF THE GENERAL CATEGORIES THAT I JUST HIGHLIGHTED. AND THAT BECOMES THE FEE SCHEDULE. YES. QUESTION ON THAT. CORBIN TALKED EARLIER ABOUT HOW WE'RE SETTING A MAXIMUM AMOUNT HERE, BUT IF WE COMBINED RATES, WHICH MAXIMUM AMOUNT ARE WE GOING? FOR EXAMPLE, THE COMMERCIAL, THERE'S 200 AND SOMETHING THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A CONVENIENCE STORE, $117,000 FOR A FAST FOOD DRIVE UP. BUT A SHOPPING CENTER IS 14,000. YES. SO YEAH, MOST ENTITIES WILL USE THIS SHOPPING CENTER AS THE AVERAGE CATEGORY FOR ALL RETAIL COMPONENTS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS DEFINITION, IT IS FAIRLY GENERALIZED. SO IT INCLUDES A LOT OF RETAIL ELEMENTS WITHIN A SINGLE LOCATION OR POTENTIALLY A LARGE LOCATION. SO SOME ENTITIES WILL USE THAT AS THE AS THE KIND OF CATCH ALL. 
          [00:25:05]
RECOGNIZING THAT IN YOUR ORDINANCE, THERE'S SPECIFIC LANGUAGE RELATIVE TO MAKING ADJUSTMENTS. SO YOU CAN HAVE DEVELOPMENT COME IN AND SAY, WELL, I SEE THIS AS YOUR GENERALIZED FEE SCHEDULE, BUT I FEEL LIKE I'M A LITTLE DIFFERENT. I FEEL LIKE THIS CATEGORY IS NOT ME, AND THEY PROVIDE DATA TO HELP JUSTIFY WHY THAT MIGHT BE THE CASE AND WHY YOU SHOULD CONSIDER IT AN ADJUSTMENT. BUT MOST ENTITIES WILL UTILIZE THE SHOPPING CENTER AS A GENERAL RETAIL CATEGORY, OR GENERAL OFFICE AS THE GENERAL OFFICE. THEY MAY UTILIZE. I OFTEN SEE, LIKE THE CHURCH DESIGNATION USED AS MAYBE THE INSTITUTIONAL, AND THEN OUR SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY AND A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL OR AN INDUSTRIAL. 
          LET ME CLARIFY, THOUGH CORBIN'S COMMENT WAS NOT THAT YOU'RE SETTING THE MAXIMUM THAT THIS STUDY SAYS. THIS IS THE MAXIMUM YOU CAN SET AND YOU CAN SET ANYTHING UNDER IT. BUT IF WE SET, FOR EXAMPLE, THE INSTITUTIONAL AT THE CHURCH LEVEL AND SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUILD A UNIVERSITY OR COLLEGE, THEY'RE FEELING A LITTLE SCREWED BECAUSE THEY'RE PAYING CHURCH LEVEL, WHICH IS EIGHT TIMES HIGHER THAN THEIR. YES. SO BUT THEN THEY CAN THEY CAN USE OUR OWN STUDY TO JUSTIFY THE LOWER RATE. SO WE HAVE THIS BEHIND WHATEVER RATE WE SET UP. 
          YES, YES. AND THE ORDINANCE IS ALSO IN PLACE. SO IN YOUR ORDINANCE IT WILL SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT DEVELOPMENT CAN PRESENT THEIR OWN INFORMATION FOR YOU TO CONSIDER AN ALTERNATIVE CONSIDERATION ON THE FEE ITSELF. SO. EITHER YES IT WOULD BE TRIP GENERATION. 
          YOU MIGHT NOT CHANGE THE COST PER TRIP THAT 558, BUT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SAY I'M A DAYCARE AND I'M LOW TRIP GENERATION BECAUSE I ONLY KEEP SIX KIDS OR SOMETHING, RIGHT? SO THEY CAN BRING IN THEIR TRIP GENERATION. THAT'S FAR LESS THAN THIS. AND THEN WE WOULD TAKE THAT 558 TIMES THEIR TRIPS GENERATION OR WHATEVER IT IS YOU ADOPT AS A RATE PER TRIP. 
          SO AND I WILL SAY TO THAT THAT FORMULA IS INCLUDED IN THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE THAT WE'VE ADOPTED. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPACT FEES FOR ROAD USE, ARE WE TALKING THE SAME THING? THAT WAS THE PLEASANT GROVE CITY CASE? NO, THIS IS THIS IS ONLY ON NEW DEVELOPMENT. THE TRANSPORTATION UTILITY FEE IS STRICTLY FOR ASPHALT AND ROAD MAINTENANCE OF EXISTING ROADS. 
          THIS IS STRICTLY FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT FOR NEW ROADS. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. SO HERE HERE'S MY QUESTION. WE HAVE THIS FEE BY LAND USE. CAN WE SAY. FOR CERTAIN USES WE'RE GOING TO CHARGE IT. WE CAN BUT WE'RE GOING TO FOR YOU CAN SEE WHERE I'M GOING TO GO WITH THIS. 
          ON RESIDENTIAL, WE COULD SAY WE'RE NOT CHARGING IMPACT FEES AT ALL. YES. CAN WE DO THAT? YOU CAN SAY THAT THIS IS THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED AND YOU CAN SET WHATEVER RATE IT IS THAT YOU FEEL LIKE IS A COUNCIL IS A POLICY. BUT I THINK WHAT YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS, AGAIN, IF YOU'RE APPLYING A REDUCTION TO A SPECIFIC LAND USE, I DON'T SEE THAT AS OFTEN. AN ENTITY WILL SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL FEE, BUT KEEP EVERYBODY ELSE. BUT HERE'S HERE'S WHAT HERE'S THE REASON WHY I'M SAYING THIS. ONE. THERE MAY BE INCENTIVE. BUILD A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND YOUR IMPACT FEES ARE LESS. IF WE IF WE DECIDED AS A BODY GOING BACK TO THE TOUGH DECISIONS THAT COUNCIL GETS TO MAKE, WE HAVE TO MAKE POLITICAL DECISIONS AS WELL. AND HOW DOES ADDING $5,000 TO A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE? HOW DOES ADDING $3,000 TO A MULTIFAMILY UNIT LOW RISE? NOW THE MULTIFAMILY UNIT ACROSS THE STREET, I DON'T CARE, BUT WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THOSE KIND OF THINGS, WE ALSO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION OUR FRIENDS ON CAPITOL HILL AND SOME OF THE OTHER, OTHER THINGS, PARTICULARLY TALKING ABOUT HOUSING AFFORDABILITY. IF, IF, IF WE'RE ALL OF A SUDDEN GOING TO SAY HOUSES HOUSE IS GO UP BY 1 OR 2%, DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S $500,000 HOUSE, WE JUST ADDED 1% TO THE COST OF THE HOUSE BY ADDING AN IMPACT FEE. 
          SO IS THAT THE IS THAT THE POLITICAL DECISION THAT WE WANT TO MAKE? IN MY EXPERIENCE, WHAT I'VE SEEN WITH IMPACT FEES OVERALL IS THAT WHEN A COUNCIL TAKES AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN LINE, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN OUR STRATEGY SESSION. WHETHER YOU ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE 
          [00:30:04]
ONE CATEGORY AND TAKE IT TO ZERO AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WHATEVER IT IS, OR IF OVERALL WE HAVE TO ADOPT THE IMPACT FEE AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO THE STUDY, BUT WE'RE GOING TO ADOPT IT AT 50% OF WHAT THE STUDY IS REQUESTING, AND WE'RE GOING TO CONSOLIDATE BASED ON A LAND USE GROUP. BUT BUT WE KIND OF BELIEVE THAT IT'S A PERCENTAGE OVERALL THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO ADOPT VERSUS LIKE A SPECIFIC CATEGORY. IF YOU WERE TO SAY, AS A COUNCIL, WE WANT TO REMOVE THE IMPACT FEE, WE'RE GOING TO ADOPT THE IMPACT FEES AT 50%, 60%, WHATEVER IT IS. BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHARGE SINGLE FAMILY. THEN THE TAX BASE FOR THE CITY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PAY THAT IMPACT FEE INTO THE IMPACT FEE FUND AS AN INCENTIVE FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO WE WOULD BE USING ONE TIME REVENUES TO SUBSIDIZE OR INCENTIVIZE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID WITH AMAZON. WE INCENTIVIZED AMAZON BY PAYING OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND ONE OF THE SOME OF THE IMPACT FEES. SO THE GOAL ON THE IMPACT FEES IS BASICALLY YOU WANT THE IMPACT FEES TO BE NOT ON THE CURRENT RESIDENTS, BUT ON THE ONES THAT ARE COMING IN TO COVER THE FEES. AND I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND THE AFFORDABILITY, I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT AFFORDABILITY MEANS BECAUSE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALLY AFFORDABLE. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I SEE THESE IMPACT FEES, I'M WITH YOU. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I JUST SEE THEM AS THEY'RE PRESENTING THESE TO COVER COSTS, NOT TO MAKE MONEY. WELL, YEAH. THE FLIP SIDE IS THAT YOU CAN USE IT AS AN INCENTIVE STRUCTURE, RIGHT? IF WE WANTED TO INCENTIVIZE CONVENIENCE STORES SAY WE CAN TAKE THEIR IMPACT FEES LOWER AND SAY AS A CATEGORY, WE WANT TO INCENTIVIZE CONVENIENCE STORES. SO THEN THE COSTS GO BACK ONTO THE CITIZENS. IF WE WANT TO COST, IF WE WANT TO. COSTCO, I DON'T SEE COSTCO LISTED ON THE LAND. SEE, THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT THE THE FEE BY LAND USE, I DON'T SEE COSTCO, TRADER JOE'S, AMUSEMENT PARKS AND AND YOU KNOW, STEAKHOUSE ON THE LIST. YEAH, IT WOULD BE IN A GENERAL. LAND SUPERMARKET OR SHOPPING CENTER WHERE THERE MAY BE MULTIPLE. RIGHT. THAT THAT YOU WOULD UTILIZE, DEPENDING ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, INCENTIVIZING INCENTIVES. BUT GOING BACK TO SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS. YEAH, WHAT WE VIEW AS TYPICALLY AN ADJUSTMENT IS APPLIED UNIVERSALLY. SO IF WE SAY, HEY, WE'RE WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH MAXIMUM, WE'RE GOING TO ADOPT HALF OF THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULE. SO THAT WOULD BE APPLIED UNIVERSALLY. THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT I SEE. ENTITIES, IF THEY'RE MAKING ADJUSTMENTS THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL DO IS APPLY THAT UNIVERSITY. WE CAN FIND SOME CATEGORIES BUT NOT ALL. YES I LOOK AT WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH DAYCARE RIGHT NOW. 
          DAYCARE IS VERY SHORT. AND WHAT THIS SAYS IS DON'T BUILD A DAYCARE IN A NEW AREA. WELL THAT'S NOT SAYING DON'T BUILD IT, IT'S JUST SAYING IT'S GOING TO COST YOU. IT'S GOING TO COST YOU $15,000. I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUILD A BUILDING AND PAY THAT IMPACT FEE FOR 1000FT■!S PER 1000FT■!S. YEAH. I MEAN, THAT'S COST PROHIBITIVE FOR A DAYCARE. AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT OUR STATE NEEDS AND OUR CITY NEEDS. SO CAN WE COMBINE CERTAIN CATEGORIES, BUT NOT ALL? YES. I DON'T REALLY SEE A UNIVERSITY COMING IN REAL SOON. YEAH, YEAH. SOME ENTITIES WILL SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO CONSOLIDATE OUR SCHEDULE AND WE'LL WE'LL LOOK AT SPECIFIC WAYS TO CONSOLIDATE THAT. WELL IT'S LOOKING WE HAD 20 MINUTES FOR THIS. DO YOU HAVE MORE OF YOUR PRESENTATION. THAT'S ESSENTIALLY GOING BACK TO DO WE WANT TO FINISH IT. BUT WHAT I'M GOING TO SUGGEST COUNCIL IS THAT THIS I THINK THIS IS GOING TO TAKE US MORE THAN THERE'S NO WAY IT CAN BE IN OUR NEXT MEETING TO BE APPROVED, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO IN DIALOG, WE'RE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE. I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU. YOU'VE GOT THIS PER TRIP THING, AND THEN YOU SAY, AND YOU BROUGHT UP DAYCARE IS THIS. BUT IF WE SAY WE'RE ONLY GOING TO HAVE SIX KIDS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS. ARE WE OPENING UP THAT THAT LIST MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN KEEP COMING IN AND SAYING, I'M GOING TO HAVE A CONVENIENCE STORE, BUT IT'S A SPECIALTY CONVENIENCE STORE THAT'S ONLY GOING TO HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A 7-ELEVEN. IT'S NOT THAT CONVENIENT. YEAH. 
          IT'S IT CAN BE I WOULD, I WOULD, BUT IF IT'S SAY THEY CHALLENGE THE FEE THEN TO GO AHEAD AND DO THEIR OWN TRIP GENERATION. BUT ARE WE ARE WE OPENING UP EVERYONE TO KEEP COMING TO CITY STAFF DOING THAT ALREADY. THAT'S ALLOWED IN STATE LAW ALREADY. EVERY IMPACT FEE CAN BE CHALLENGED OR CAN BE DEMONSTRATED TO BE MET. THE IMPACT IS MET IN ANOTHER WAY. 
          SO WITH THAT, ARE YOU TRYING TO SET MORE OF A PROPOSED MAXIMUM FEES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME IN AND QUESTION POSSIBLY THE INTENT FOR THESE IS JUST KIND OF A 
          [00:35:04]
GENERAL USE. RIGHT. AND IT FITS MOST USES. MOST THINGS THAT COME IN ARE EITHER YOU KNOW, A RESTAURANT OR IT'S HOUSING OR IT'S INDUSTRIAL OR OFFICE, LIKE IT FITS ONE OF THESE CATEGORIES. 
          AND IT'S NOT A QUESTION HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE PEOPLE COME IN TO AND THEN YOU GET, I DON'T KNOW THE PERCENTAGE, BUT LET'S SAY 10% OF THESE PROJECTS COME. THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING IF THIS MEANS THAT WE'RE JUST OPENING UP THE WILD WEST. YOU TELL ME HOW MANY CARS YOU THINK IT HAPPENS. LIKE, EVERY PROJECT COMES IN AND SAYS WE'RE DIFFERENT, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT. AND WE KNOW ALL OF OUR DEVELOPMENTS ARE SPECIAL BECAUSE THEY'RE SPECIAL CITY. SO WE WILL TAKE THE INPUT THAT WE'VE RECEIVED TODAY. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED SOME ADDITIONAL MODIFICATION HERE POTENTIALLY, AND SOME DISCUSSION. THIS IS A WORK SESSION. SO THE INTENT IS TO SOLICIT FEEDBACK AND LOOK AT SCENARIOS AND DETERMINE WHAT IS BEST FOR WEST JORDAN. AS YOU LOOK AT NEXT STEPS, WHEN WE GET TO OUR PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE, RIGHT. THEN WE GO TO A FINALIZATION NOTICING FOR PUBLIC HEARING, HOLDING THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN INITIATING THAT 90 DAY WAIT PERIOD. SO I'LL WORK WITH STAFF TO LOOK AT ADDITIONAL SCENARIOS AND HOW WE MIGHT COME BACK TO YOU TO TALK MORE ABOUT THIS. I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'VE REALLY GIVEN YOU ANYTHING. YOU'VE GOT NO CONSENSUS ON ANYTHING. YES. 
          NO CONSENSUS. BUT WE NEED TO GET THAT. YES. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHEN YOU, WHEN THIS COMES BACK IS THE CURRENT IMPACT FEES. WHY THEY'RE SHORT AND THEN WHAT A RECOMMENDED. 
          YOU KNOW MAYBE THERE'S A RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM. MAYBE THERE'S A RECOMMENDED SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. THAT KIND OF THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK. 
          DO YOU WANT STAFF TO BRING YOU A RECOMMENDED MAYBE A RECOMMENDED FEE? WE NOW KNOW THE CEILING ONE STAFF TO BRING YOU SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHERE IT WOULD LAND AND WHAT WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE, AND ALSO MAYBE SOME POSSIBLE CATEGORIZATIONS OR COMBINING OF LAND USE. ELECTED BODIES ALWAYS LIKE TO HAVE CHOICES PRESENTED TO THEM. WELL, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DAYCARE, IT'S 14,600 AND SOME ODD DOLLARS. WHAT ARE WE CHARGING TODAY? HOW MUCH OF THAT IS AN INCREASE? I MEAN, THOSE THAT THAT'S I KEPT GOING THROUGH THIS. THAT'S GOOD, I MISSED IT. THAT'S THE KIND THAT'S THE KIND OF DATA THAT I'M GOING TO WANT IS THAT ARE WE INCREASING THE IMPACT FEES BY 65%, OR IS IT A 1% CHANGE? AND AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, ONE OTHER PIECE IS WHAT IS THE CURRENT MAXIMUM? WHAT ARE WE CURRENTLY USUALLY CHARGING VERSUS THAT MAXIMUM. SO WE SET IT AT $1,000. BUT MOST PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY HAVE JUSTIFICATION TO MAKE IT $800 BECAUSE OF WHATEVER REASON. 
          EVERY DAYCARE IS SMALLER THAN WHAT THE MAXIMUM SAYS IT IS. SO EVERYBODY'S ALWAYS BEEN 80% OF WHATEVER IT WAS WE SET IT AT, WHETHER THAT'S THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OR SOME OTHER AMOUNT. 
          RIGHT? SO WHAT'S WHAT'S PRACTICE BEEN LIKE COMPARED TO WHAT'S ON THE BOOKS? AND THAT IS RARE, HONESTLY. THE ADJUSTMENT TIMES. BUT WHAT WE DO HAVE THAT INFORMATION. WHAT COUNSEL HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU WANT TO DEDICATE. WOULD YOU LIKE AN HOUR, TWO HOURS, A WHOLE WORK SESSION, A HALF A WORK SESSION? WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE AND HOW DO WE CALENDAR IT? DO WE WANT AN ADDITIONAL WORK SESSION ON A DIFFERENT DAY TO TALK ABOUT THIS? SO WE DON'T HAVE A TIME LIMIT ON A SEPARATE DAY, BECAUSE WHEN WE HAVE 4 TO 5 ITEMS ON ONE AGENDA, WE CAN NEVER GET THEM ALL. YEAH. NO THAT'S TRUE I WOULD I WOULD DEFINITELY IT WOULD DEPEND ON HOW MUCH INFORMATION IS BROUGHT BACK THOUGH AND HOW MUCH DISCUSSION THERE STILL TO HAVE. WE HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION. AND AN ADDITIONAL THING THAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHEN WE ADJUST IF, WHEN AND IF WE ADJUST THESE, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO GETTING PROJECTS COMPLETED? BECAUSE ONE OF THE MAIN COMPLAINTS WE HEAR IS IT'S HARD TO GET AROUND IN WEST JORDAN AND THAT'S ACCURATE AS OPPOSED TO CAN YOU MODEL THAT OUT? AS FAR AS WE SAID IT AT THIS, IT'LL HAVE THIS KIND OF IMPACT ON YOU CAN MODEL IT OUT THAT THIS WILL BE A REVENUE GENERATION. AND THEN WHAT HOW THE PROJECTS ARE LISTED IN YEAR. SO THEN IT WOULD BUMP THE PROJECT UP FURTHER. RIGHT. OR YOU HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER FUNDING SOURCE. RIGHT. OR YOU FIND LEGISLATORS TAXES OR YOU GET GRANTS OR WHATEVER. YEAH. WELL YEAH. BECAUSE ANYTIME YOU BUILD SOMETHING NEW, YOU BUILD A NEW DEVELOPMENT. YOU THE ROADS HAVE TO GO IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. THE CAPACITY HAS TO BE INCREASED ON THE EXISTING ROADS, WHATEVER IT IS, AND THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN OR YOU END UP IN BAD PLACES AND WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE. WELL, WE ALSO 
          [00:40:01]
KNOW THAT NEW ROADS AND CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT AREAS ARE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO LEGISLATIVE FUNDING, AND SO THAT CAN RELIEVE SOME OF THE PRESSURE FROM THAT SHOULD BE KIND OF PROJECT BY PROJECT. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO LIKE IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S BUILDING THE CLOUT THAT COMES BEHIND IT. THAT DOESN'T MATTER. ALL RIGHT. SO WE NEED TO GIVE STAFF A LITTLE BIT OF DIRECTION. DO WE AS A BODY YOU IF YOU WANT TO HOLD A SEPARATE WORK MEETING PLEASE HOLD YOUR HAND UP SO I'LL KNOW. YOU SAY SEPARATE. YOU MEAN ON A DIFFERENT DAY? YES, YES, THAT'S WHAT I HAVE A DIFFERENT A DIFFERENT WEEK. IT DEPENDS. AND ADDITIONAL I SHOULD HAVE SAID ADDITIONAL WORK MEETING DEDICATED TO THIS. I WOULD SAY I DON'T CARE WHEN WE DO IT. WE JUST NEED A GOOD DEDICATED CHUNK OF TIME. AND IT CAN BE IN THIS MEETING. IT COULD BE IN THIS MEETING, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TIME IN THIS MEETING. AND THAT'S THE ISSUE. MR. ANDERSON, DO YOU KNOW THE SCHEDULE BETTER THAN ANY OF US? WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I DON'T SEE WE DO HAVE ONE THAT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS LESS. YOU HAVE AN OPENING, I THINK, ON OCTOBER 14TH, AND YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF SPACE ON OCTOBER 28TH. OKAY. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD PREFER IS JUST A REGULARLY SCHEDULED WEEK JUST SCHEDULE. OKAY. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. THEN WE CAN DO THAT UNLESS YOU UNLESS LEADERSHIP REARRANGES. THAT'S YOUR JOB I KNOW, I KNOW, THAT'S WHY I SAID WE CAN'T DO THAT. I USED TO HAVE THAT. OKAY. SO YOUR HEAD KIND OF WENT LIKE THIS. ARE YOU AN AFFIRMATIVE TO TRYING TO PUT IT ON A REGULAR WORK MEETING? OKAY. I JUST WANT TO DO IT ON A DAY WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO CUT OFF. YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN, I DON'T CARE WHEN IT IS. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME. WE NEED TO SOLVE THAT. WE WILL GET IT ON THE AGENDA. PROBABLY. PROBABLY 14TH OR 20TH, THEN OCTOBER. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS STAFF THAT YOU WANT ANSWERED THAT I CAN GET YOU FOR OR MORE OR YOU'LL KNOW THERE AREN'T FOUR OR MORE? I THINK WE KNOW THE DIRECTION THAT YOU WANT TO GO. WE HAVE THE COMPARISONS OF WHAT IT IS NOW VERSUS YEAH, THAT WAS THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING FOR COMPARISON. AND THEN THE IMPACT OF OUR CHOICES. YEAH. IF YOU DO A THEN THIS OCCURS. IF YOU DO B WELL AND AS YOU KNOW THERE IS RIGHT. YOUR WATER FUND IS SO FAR IN THE HOLE BECAUSE OF A DISCOUNTED WATER ACCOUNT. RIGHT. SO AND WE CAN'T RECOVER THOSE FUNDS. SO IT THIS DECISION IS IMPORTANT. YEP. AND WE ALWAYS KNOW ASPHALT UNLESS THERE'S A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. AND THEN IT'S CONCRETE. THAT'S RIGHT. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS MR. 
          [b.
 Discussion on Adding Housing as a Limited Use in Commercial Zones]
GARDNER DISCUSSION ON ADDING HOUSING AS A LIMITED USE IN COMMERCIAL ZONES. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHERE THIS CAME FROM. I CAN PROBABLY GIVE YOU A HINT. SO GOOD AFTERNOON. WHERE DID IT COME FROM? THAT'S ALL THE STATE OF UTAH TALKS ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS HOUSING AND THE CRISIS. HOW MANY UNITS DO WE HAVE APPROVED? IT'S LIKE ENTITLED UNITS ARE OVER 9900 AND THOUSANDS. HOW MANY PERMITS ARE BEING PULLED EACH YEAR? 200 HUNDREDS. YEAH. COUPLE HUNDRED. SO ANYWAY. OKAY, WHAT YOU KNOW, AS I LOOK AT THE MODERATE INCOME HOUSING GOALS IN THE STATE, IT'S CONSTANTLY UP OR THEY'RE IMPOSING UPON CITIES REALLY THE COLLEGE STRATEGIES. THEY'RE CONTINUALLY COMING UP THIS THIS MUNICIPALITIES ALLOW HOUSING AND COMMERCIAL ZONES. NOW I CERTAINLY HAVE MY OPINION ON IT. BUT WHAT I REALLY WANT IS THE OPINION OF THE COUNCIL TONIGHT. 
          IF THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PURSUE NOW, I'M GOING TO SAY, IN ALL FAIRNESS, THERE'S A COUPLE OF ILLEGAL USES IN OUR CITY THAT ARE BEING HOUSED IN A COMMERCIAL ZONE RIGHT NOW. THAT BEING SAID, IT IS OCCURRING, ALTHOUGH ON AN ILLEGAL BASIS, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T THERE'S NOTHING UNUSUAL THAT OCCURS ALL THE TIME. AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO THINGS THAT ARE THEY'RE NOT QUITE ALLOWED TO DO AND THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS RATHER THAN PERMISSION. SO THE WAY IT GOES. 
          BUT AND SO MY, MY QUESTIONS TO THE COUNCIL IS SHOULD RESIDENTIAL BE ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL ZONES AT ALL. YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL ZONES AND INDUSTRIAL ZONES ARE REALLY, FOR LACK OF A BETTER PHRASE, THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE CITY. BUT IN SOME WAYS, YOU KNOW, WITH 
          [00:45:03]
SALES TAX INCREASE, PROPERTY TAXES, SHOULD RESIDENTIAL HOUSES BE ALLOWED AS A LIMITED OPTION, SUCH AS A MIXED USE OVER AN OFFICE BUILDING, OVER A RETAIL BUILDING, THAT TYPE OF THING? SHOULD RESIDENTIAL HOUSING BE ANOTHER USE AND RESTRAINED IN A COMMERCIAL ZONE? SO SAY YOU HAVE A 20 ACRE COMMERCIAL PIECE. FIVE OF IT'S NOT REALLY BEING USED. THEY TEAR THE FIVE ACRES DOWN TO BUILD THE APARTMENT COMPLEX. SO THE MIDDLE WELL, TOMORROW ON MARTIN. THERE YOU GO. IF THAT'S WHAT THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT LANDS. JUST ONE DOOR. AND WHAT COMMERCIAL ZONES SHOULD HOUSING BE ALLOWED IN ALL COMMERCIAL ZONES IN THE CMPXCHG, THE COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL COMMERCIAL ZONE. SO THOSE ARE REALLY MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU TONIGHT. I DON'T I AM NOT EVEN FANTASIZING TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR A SOLUTION TO THIS, BECAUSE IF YOU SAY NO, I GO AWAY AND GO BACK AND DO MY OTHER THINGS. IF YOU SAY YES, THEN I WORK ON THINGS AS YOU DIRECT. SO. SO, LARRY, WE ALREADY ALLOW WE ALREADY HAVE THIS ALLOWED IN JORDAN LANDING, AND WE ALREADY HAVE PODS. SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHERS THAT JORDAN JORDAN LANDING. 
          YEAH, THAT WAS KIND OF A LARGER DEVELOPMENT. THAT WAS MASTER PLAN AS ONE WHOLE DEVELOPMENT. 
          YOU KNOW, YOU CAME BACK TO US AND WE SAID YES, WE WOULD ALLOW THE RESIDENTIAL. RESIDENTIAL. 
          YES. SO WE ALLOWED THAT, YOU KNOW. SO YOU'RE CORRECT. SO FOR ME, WE ALREADY HAVE MANY OPTIONS WHERE THIS IS AVAILABLE AND I DON'T I WANT TO KEEP RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. AND I FEEL LIKE WITH THE UNITS THAT WE'VE ALREADY ENTITLED AND THE UNITS THAT WE'VE ALREADY ENTITLED WITH MODERATE INCOME HOUSING THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO BE BUILT, SHOULD THE DEVELOPERS CHOOSE TO BUILD THOSE THAT WEST JORDAN IS DOING THEIR PART. AND I WANT TO KEEP OUR COMMERCIAL BASE STRONG SO THAT I'LL HAVE CONCRETE AND ASPHALT FOR THIS MAN. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. SO THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. WHO ELSE WANTS TO WEIGH IN? I LIKE THINGS VERY EUCLIDEAN, AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT THE WAY I WORK. IT'S NOT COOL ANYONE. YEAH, I I'M KIND OF I CAN SEE TWO SIDES OF THIS. I CAN, I CAN SEE SOME REALLY GOOD THINGS. IF YOU SAY, YEAH, WE WANT TO ALLOW RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL ZONES BECAUSE I SEE DENSE COMMERCIAL AND DENSE RESIDENTIAL NEXT TO EACH OTHER, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING. BUT I CAN ALSO SEE SOMEBODY TAKING THAT AND SAY, OH, WELL, I HAVE THIS. YOU MADE ME SET ASIDE 20 OF MY 100 ACRES FOR COMMERCIAL PARCEL, AND I'M GOING TO PUT RESIDENTIAL THERE BECAUSE NOW YOU ALLOW IT. I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO. THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME SORT OF I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST BLUSH THAT COMES TO MIND IS, SAY, SQUARE FOOT FOR SQUARE FOOT, LIKE YOU GOT A COMMERCIAL ZONE. YOU'VE GOT TO BUILD EVERY SQUARE FOOT OF RESIDENTIAL UNIT BUILDING. YOU GOT TO BUILD TWO SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE RIGHT, BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THAT YOU KEEP IT FROM FROM BECOMING. THE CRABGRASS JUST GROWS ALL THE WAY INTO WHERE YOU WANTED YOUR FLOWER BEDS. 
          AND YOU GOT TO DO THE COMMERCIAL FIRST. YEAH. AND THEN YOU GOT TO DO THE COMMERCIAL FIRST. RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY'LL, THEY'LL BUILD OUT ALL THE RESIDENTIAL AND WAIT 20 YEARS. OH, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THE COMMERCIAL. YEAH. LIKE WE'RE LIKE KILLING WAS SAYING ABOUT LIKE H MART. YOU CAN BUILD MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF COMMERCIAL BUT THE FOOT RESIDENTIAL. BUT THE FOOTPRINT HAS TO BE COMMERCIAL OR AT LEAST SIMULTANEOUS, I MEAN. I MEAN, YOU'RE ON THE YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK BECAUSE, I MEAN, HYPOTHETICALLY, WE'LL WE'LL JUST PICK WE'LL JUST WE'LL TALK ABOUT A DEVELOPMENT THAT ACTUALLY HAS SOME COMMERCIAL SET ASIDE IN IT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HIGHLANDS. AT DRY CREEK, WE SET ASIDE 30 ACRES IN MDA. NOW THAT ONE STUCK WITH THE MDA. FOR THREE YEARS. NO IT WAS IT WAS 30. IT WAS 30 ON THE CORNER OF 90TH. AND YOU WENT 11 THEN ACROSS THE STREET. YEAH. AND THEN THERE'S ACROSS THE STREET. BUT ACROSS THE STREET. YEAH, BUT HE'S RIGHT. OKAY. WE DO SOME SORT OF PLANNED COMMUNITY AND THEN THEY SAY, WELL, WE GOT A COMMERCIAL ZONE. WE'RE JUST GOING TO PUT HOUSES IN IT. IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF THAT PARTICULAR ZONE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM. NOW I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT'S ALREADY HAD ITS DENSITY BY UP. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU KNOW, LET'S LET'S TAKE THE CORNER OF 90TH SOUTH AND 
          [00:50:03]
REDWOOD ROAD, OUR FAVORITE PC ZONE. THAT'S THE THE POSTER CHILD, THE POSTER CHILD OF BAD PC ZONES EVER TO BE DEVELOPED ANYWHERE. IF IF YOU KNOW WALKER EDISON HAS THAT GREAT BIG PARKING LOT OUT FRONT, THEY DON'T HAVE A THERE'S NO NEED RIGHT NOW FOR WALKER EDISON TO HAVE THAT BIG PARKING LOT. YEAH, BECAUSE THEY'RE LEAVING THAT BUILDING SO THEY WON'T NEED THAT PARKING LOT AT ALL. WELL, YEAH, I NOTICED IT WAS FOR SALE. YEAH, BUT IF, IF THE, IF THE NEXT BUSINESS CAME IN, YOU KNOW, SO IF WE KNEW THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WASN'T. YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING, IS THAT IT? IT MIGHT WORK IN CERTAIN AREAS, BUT THE. BUT THE COMMERCIAL CHANGES, YOU KNOW, IF WALKER EDISON WOULD HAVE COME TO US 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO AND SAID, HEY, WE NEED WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING OUT FRONT, WE JUST SAID, OKAY, WE MIGHT WE MIGHT HAVE CONSIDERED IT. WELL, NOW WE'RE SAYING, WELL, WALKER, WALKER EDISON MAY BE LEAVING. 
          AT LEAST THERE'S A BIG SIGN ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. AND, AND AND THEN IF WE DID THAT, WE'RE WE'RE OUT. WE'RE OUT OF LUCK BECAUSE A COMMERCIAL THAT MIGHT NEED THAT PARKING SPOT IS ALREADY GONE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW I'M, I'M PRETTY MUCH I WE WE'VE GOT IT IN THE THREE ZONE. I YOU KNOW I'M THINKING ABOUT LIKE THE ONE THE COMPLEX THAT'S OVER WHERE GRACE COMPANIES AT. THERE'S WHEN THAT WHEN THAT STRIP MALL WAS BUILT. 
          THERE'S 40,000 PARKING SPOTS AND AND BUT IS THAT WHERE WE WANT MORE RESIDENTIAL? BECAUSE THE PROBLEM THE PROBLEM THAT WE'VE GOT I THINK THAT THAT THE OTHER THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM AS WELL IS IF WE DECIDE THAT WE'RE GOING TO PUT RESIDENTIAL ON COMMERCIAL, IT AUTOMATICALLY PUTS US A STRAIN ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE WE PLANNED FOR MOST OF THOSE UNITS. 
          MOST OF THOSE COMMERCIAL USES HAVE LESS CONSUMPTION. IRC COUNTS, WHICH ARE THE SCALE PROBABLY WOULD. AN OFFICER WOULD HAVE TO BE MUCH, MUCH. AND SO I MEAN THERE'S THE WATER CONSIDERATION. AND WHERE WOULD WE BE SHIFTING THAT FROM TO ADD MORE. AND THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT TO PUT COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL IS MULTIFAMILY AND, AND YOU GOT MULTIFAMILY IN THE MIDDLE OF COMMERCIAL AND THEN ARE WE GOING TO ALWAYS HEAR THE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE STORES? TOO BUSY. MY KIDS CAN'T PLAY BECAUSE THERE'S THE PARKING LOT. 
          THEY'RE THEY'RE ON BUSY ROADS. I JUST THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW. YEAH. OKAY. I WAS JUST ARTICULATING SOME OF THE OTHER REASONS SO THAT YOU'RE RIGHT AND YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT. 
          COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD? NO, I MEAN, EVERYONE'S ALREADY SAID A LOT. MY MY BIGGEST WORRY IS, IS SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING. YOU KNOW, IF WE DO THIS, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS WE DON'T WANT. RIGHT. AND CAN YOU IMAGINE 90 SOUTH AND REDWOOD HAVING THAT ALTERNATIVE TO APARTMENT COMPLEXES ON THAT CORNER. 
          THAT'S LITERALLY COULD. YEAH. YEAH. IF YOU CAN IMAGINE. COULD YOU JUST LOOK AT 78 ALL RIGHT. 
          AT AND HOW ABOUT 78TH AND 13TH WHERE WE ALREADY GAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RETAIL ON THE BOTTOM AND RESIDENTIAL ON THE TOP. AND WHAT DID THEY COME BACK FOR. CAN WE JUST PUT A HOTEL IN HERE BECAUSE WE CAN'T FIND BUSINESSES TO STAY? OUR MAYOR OUR MAYOR WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH IN. COME ON OVER. WELL, I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP WHAT YOU JUST BROUGHT UP, LIKE PARK CITY AND SALT LAKE CITY HAS. WE HAVE BUSINESSES ON THE BOTTOM. IF YOU WANT THAT CONSIDERATION, SO THAT HE KNOWS WHERE TO GO WITH THAT ONE. WELL, AND AND WE'VE SAID YES OVER HERE. RIGHT. 
          YES. YES OVER THERE. SO. OKAY. COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON, ANYTHING TO ADD? I USED TO LIVE IN GERMANY. FOR A LITTLE WHILE, AND. THAT WAS I'VE LOVED LIVING ABOVE A BAKERY. FOR SO MANY REASONS. SO. IF IT'S DONE RIGHT, I COULD BE IN FAVOR OF THIS. BUT WE HAVE TO BE SO CAREFUL, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE WAS A DEVELOPER THAT CAME TO US ABOUT A PARTICULAR PIECE OF GROUND 
          [00:55:01]
THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCESS BECAUSE OF BECAUSE OF UDOT RESTRICTIONS ON, ON THE CORNER OF OF MOUNTAIN VIEW, MOUNTAIN VIEW CORRIDOR AND 90TH SOUTH. A VERY DIFFICULT PIECE OF PROPERTY TO ACCESS. AND THEY WANTED TO PUT HOUSING IN THAT UNIT. AND THE COUNCIL SAID, SORRY, IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO ACCESS, BUT THAT IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION FOR HOMES. 
          AND I DON'T WANT THIS TYPE OF. ZONING CHANGE TO SUDDENLY ALLOW HOMES TO BE BUILT IN PLACES WHERE THE GENERAL PLAN NEVER HAD AN INTENTION FOR HOMES TO BE BUILT. BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT WE HOPE TO SOMEDAY DO ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE CITY HALL, HOW BEAUTIFUL WOULD IT BE TO HAVE HOMES AND BUSINESSES ALL INTERMIXED TOGETHER AND HAVE A BEAUTIFUL WALKING ZONE, AS IT'S CALLED THAT WHERE PEOPLE CAN WALK UP AND DOWN A STREET AND AND NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IF THERE'S GOING TO BE CARS THERE, BECAUSE THERE JUST WON'T BE. AND SHOP, IT'D BE LIKE AN OUTDOOR SHOPPING CENTER WITH HOMES AND BUSINESSES MIXED TOGETHER, I THINK IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND DONE RIGHT, IT COULD BE AN AMAZING, WONDERFUL THING THAT WE COULD DO. BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE GET THERE AND NOT WORRY ABOUT THIS. NOW I'M IN THE ZONE ALLOWS FOR THAT TYPE OF THING. SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT ZONE. BUT JUST DROPPING IT INTO AN SC ONE, 2 OR 3, WE HAD A LOT OF ZONES. ANYTHING JUST TO GO WITH ME. I LOVE THE GROUND FLOOR. AND THEN YOU KNOW, APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, SMALL DWELLINGS ABOVE. BUT WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE IN THE CITY THAT THEY CAN'T SELL ALREADY. I'M JUST UP 78. YOU THERE'S, THERE'S JUST EMPTY, EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY. AND AND THEN WE'RE HEARING AS OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE SAID WHERE PEOPLE SAY I WANT TO DO THAT, BUT I CAN'T SELL THEM. SO WE JUST WANT TO DO THIS INSTEAD. SO I WOULD RATHER JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE GOING TO WORK TOWARDS SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND, AND LET COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON LIVE ABOVE A BAKERY AND LIVE HIS BEST LIFE, THAT IT'S OVER THERE WHERE IT WOULD BE, IT'D BE EVERYBODY'S JUST WE ALL MINE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN ICE CREAM. THAT'S GOING TO BE AN AIRBNB. BUT WE DO IT OVER WHERE WE KNOW WE WANT IT. YEAH. AND NOT LET IT JUST BE THAT IT COULD SPRING UP ANYWHERE. SO I'M. I'M IN THAT ZONE. ALL RIGHT. MR. GARDNER, YOU'VE HEARD FROM EACH OF US, YOU KNOW, AND I THANK YOU. I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR YOU'VE GOT FREE TIME TO DO SOMETHING ELSE. YOU KNOW, I ASSUMED WHAT THE ANSWER WOULD BE, BUT I DON'T TRY TO READ SEVEN PEOPLE'S MINDS OR SIX PEOPLE TONIGHT HERE. AND SO. AND OCCASIONALLY WE SURPRISE YOU. NOT OFTEN, BUT UNTIL I REALLY HEAR IT FROM THE COUNCIL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR ANSWER WILL BE. BUT NOW I KNOW. AND SO THANK YOU. YEAH. THANK YOU THAT IT FITS IN. LIKE. APPLY FOR THE ZONE. LIKE. YEAH. FOR ZONE SIX. 
          [c.
 Discussion on Possible Regulations for Exterior Lighting in Residential Zones]
THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA CAME TO US FROM COUNCIL MEMBER BADOR LONG AGO, FROM A RESIDENT THAT CONTACTED HIM PRETTY MUCH THE DAY HE GOT VOTED IN. AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH EXTERIOR LIGHTING IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES. AND I'M THE CO-SPONSOR, BUT I'M GOING TO LET COUNCIL MEMBER BADOR TAKE IT. THE COUNCIL, THIS IS REALLY JUST FOR US TO KIND OF DISCUSS AND SEE IF WE HAVE THE DESIRE TO BRING THIS FURTHER. CHAIR WHITELOCK SAID. ALMOST ON THE FIRST DAY, I THINK WE ALL REMEMBER A GENTLEMAN CAME IN AND TALKED ABOUT THIS FLASHING LIGHT RIGHT OUTSIDE HIS HOME AND HOW IT WAS DISTURBING HIM. I'VE BEEN OUT TO HIS HOME SEVERAL TIMES AND AND A LOT OF TIMES HE'LL CALL ME LIKE 11:00. IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. CAN YOU COME OVER? SURE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO. BUT THE PROBLEM HE HAS IS, IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE HE IS ON A WEIRD CORNER. AND THE HOUSE THAT'S RIGHT ADJACENT TO HIS BACKYARD, THAT'S ACTUALLY THE FRONT OF THIS KIND OF WEIRD, QUADPLEX KIND OF THING. AND SO THIS NEIGHBOR TAKES GREAT PRIDE IN FLASHING LIGHTS RIGHT INTO HIS RIGHT INTO HIS BEDROOM, TO THE POINT WHERE THIS GENTLEMAN NOW HAS TO PUT UP A PIECE OF PLYWOOD. PLYWOOD AT NIGHT SO HE CAN SLEEP, BUT IT STILL GOES INTO OTHER, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT HIS HOUSE. SO ONCE THAT HAPPENED AND I KNEW WE WERE COMING UP WITH THIS, I PUT IT ON ON SOCIAL MEDIA. JUST DO OTHER PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS? I DID HAVE TWO OTHER PEOPLE WHO ON THE SOCIAL MEDIA SAID THAT THEY HAVE NEIGHBORS, THAT IT 
          [01:00:01]
GOES INTO THEIR HOUSES AS WELL. SO I WENT OUT AND LOOKED LATE AT NIGHT. AND WHEN IT'S THE BLINKING LIGHT, THAT'S WHAT TENDS TO BE THE THE MOST ALARMING, A STEADY LIGHT. YOU KIND OF GET USED TO IT WITH THIS BLINKING LIGHT. OF SOME KIND. WELL, YOU KNOW, JUST BLINKING LIGHTS THAT YOU SEE HIM AT THE HOUSE. THEY HAVE CHRISTMAS TIME. LIGHTS. YEAH. 
          OH, SURE. SURE. SO JELLYFISH LAKES. YEAH, VERY MUCH SO. SO I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH, WITH ALAN AND SOME OF THE COMMITTEE OF STAFF ABOUT THIS. YOU KNOW, WHAT IS OUR ACTUAL ALLOWANCE OF LUMENS IN, YOU KNOW, IN THIS EXTERNAL LIGHTING. DO WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAYBE COULD SAY THESE NEED TO STOP AT 10 P.M. OR 1030 SOMETHING WE COULD COME UP WITH. AND AGAIN, THIS IS FOR THE COUNCIL TO KIND OF LOOK AT. WE HAD TALKED AS WELL ABOUT MAKING THIS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DURING HOLIDAY SEASONS. WE ALLOW THIS DURING CHRISTMAS. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO DO THIS 4TH OF JULY, VALENTINE'S DAY, SOME THINGS LIKE THAT, AND OF COURSE OTHER, YOU KNOW, OTHER RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS, THINGS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE, WE COULD COME UP WITH A LIST OR, OR MAKE IT. YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO WITH IT. NOW, THIS WAS JUST THE IDEA WE WANTED TO BRING UP. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO TACKLE? DO WE WANT TO PUT A TIME ON THIS? I WILL SAY THAT I'VE ALSO HEARD JUST ON MY DRIVE UP, CHRIS MCCONAUGHEY, CITIZEN, CALLED TO TALK ABOUT THIS. HIS CONCERNS DEALT WITH. YOU KNOW, SHOULD THE CITY BE, YOU KNOW, TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR LIGHTS? AND I GO, WELL, KIND OF THAT'S IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ANNOYING STUFF. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE DO. BUT HE DID BRING UP, SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I IN FULL DISCLOSURE, HE BROUGHT UP THINGS LIKE THE FIRST AMENDMENT THAT PEOPLE WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, PUT IN LIGHTS, HE SAID. AT MY HOME ONE TIME, WE HAD A FIREFIGHTER PASS AWAY, AND SO WE HAD RED LIGHTS OUTSIDE OUR HOUSE, AND WE KEPT THEM ON, YOU KNOW, ALL NIGHT. AND THAT WAS IN OBSERVANCE OF THAT. SO DOES COMING UP TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. AND AGAIN, THIS IS FOR THE COUNCIL TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD. THESE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT AS WELL. IS THIS SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO? I HAVE TRIED TO TALK TO THE NEIGHBOR THAT STARTED ALL THIS. HE HAS NO DESIRE TO DO ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T HACK OFF HIS NEIGHBOR. THEY HAVE OBVIOUSLY BECOME ENEMIES AND FRIENDS. YEAH, AND IT'S JUST BECOME ONE OF THOSE THINGS. MUTUAL RESPECT. YEAH. 
          TO THE POINT WHERE THIS GUY HAS NOW BROUGHT ABOUT FLOODLIGHTS THAT HE ADDS ON TO HELP WITH HIS DECORATION, TO MAKE SURE THAT HE'S GOT COLORED FLOODLIGHTS AS WELL. CLARK GRISWOLD. BUT SO I WANTED TO JUST, YOU KNOW, GET AN IDEA TO SEE WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THIS. 
          AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO CONTINUE GOING ON AGAIN, BRINGING UP. I'VE ONLY HAD, YOU KNOW, THREE PEOPLE THAT SAID ANYTHING. NO ONE SAID ANYTHING TO THE OPPOSITE OF THAT IN THE LITTLE POST I PUT. BUT BUT I DID WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DID. I DID GET A CALL, EVEN ON MY DRIVE UP, AND WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THOUGHTS WERE HEARD AS WELL, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR IS FOR ALL THOUGHTS IN GENERAL. AND THEN I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT WRITING UP SOME CODE. AND CHAIR WHITLOCK AGREED TO BE A CO-SPONSOR OF THIS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY EXTRA THOUGHTS FROM OTHER THAN WHAT I'VE SAID. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL SAW THAT PARK CITY DOES HAVE SOME CODE FOR IT, AND THEY SPECIFY WHICH I TO ME IS A LITTLE TOO RESTRICTIVE. ONLY NOVEMBER THROUGH MARCH 1ST. NEXT TIME I GO TO MY NIECE'S HOUSE, I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THAT ONE HOUSE BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE ALWAYS ON. BUT THEN THEY'RE ALSO PROHIBITS HALLOWEEN LIGHTS. NEVER MIND ONE 4TH OF JULY. YES. AND I KNOW, I KNOW THAT MY NIECE'S HOUSE IS LIT UP FOR HALLOWEEN. BUT BUT WHAT I DID LIKE ABOUT THEIRS IS THAT THEY'RE TURNED OFF BY 11. SO I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT MR. MCCONAUGHEY IS CONVEYING, BUT WE MAKE RESTRICTIONS ALL THE TIME. THAT KIND OF IS PART OF OUR JOB, RIGHT? I'VE BEEN EXPLAINING THIS TO LOTS OF PEOPLE OVER THE KNOW WHAT WE ARE AND WHAT WE DO. I DON'T PUT IT THAT WAY. BUT SO I FOR ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF SAYING THERE ARE SOME PARAMETERS BECAUSE SLEEP IS VITAL FOR OUR EXISTENCE. SLEEP. 
          AMERICANS IN GENERAL DO NOT GET ENOUGH SLEEP AND IT CAUSES PROBLEMS. SO I DON'T FALL ASLEEP TILL 4:00 IN THE MORNING. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME THAT I HAVE SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO DO. 
          I HAVE A CONSTITUENT WHO LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL, AND SHE. HILLS. HILLS 
          [01:05:07]
HIGH SCHOOL? YEAH. AND SHE COMPLAINS TO ME ABOUT THE STADIUM LIGHTS, AND I'M WONDERING ABOUT MAYBE WE COULD ASK LEGAL, BUT IF WE WERE TO INSTITUTE SOMETHING ON THIS, HOW HOW WOULD IT AFFECT OUR SCHOOLS? WELL, SAY 11:00. THOSE SCHOOLS SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN BY 11. COPPER HILLS FOOTBALL GAME GOES INTO OVERTIME LIKE. I SAID, THE ENDZONE. HE DIES. I HAD THAT HAPPEN WHEN I RAN A SOFTBALL LEAGUE OVER AT MIDVALE PARK A LONG TIME AGO. THE LIGHTS HAD THE THEY WERE ON TIMERS. I'VE BEEN THERE AND THAT HAPPENED TO ME AT THE TENNIS COURTS. AND HOW MIGHT IT AFFECT LIKE OUR PARKS OR THE WHEELS? PARK HAS LIGHTS UP NOW IN OUR PARKS. WHEN IT GETS DARK, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO CLOSE, RIGHT? I LEAVE MY PORCH LIGHTS ON ALL NIGHT LONG, AND SO DO MOST OF MY NEIGHBORS FOR SAFETY. AND ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS PORCH LIGHT JUST HAPPENS TO LINE UP WITH THE HEAD OF MY BED AND THE CRACK UNDERNEATH THE BLINDS IN MY WINDOW, AND IT JUST LINES RIGHT UP. AND I PUT A CHAIR STRATEGICALLY IN OUR BEDROOM SO THAT IT ISN'T ON THE WINDOW. BUT IF YOU SEE, THAT'S THE I THINK THE BIGGER ISSUES ARE SECURITY, LIGHTING. YOU GOT A FRONT PORCH LIGHT ON AND AND NOW WE SAY, OH, YOU HAVE TO TURN THAT OFF AT 11:00 BECAUSE IT'S TOO BRIGHT. BUT PARK CITY SPECIFICALLY CALLS OUT EXTERNAL HOLIDAY LIGHTING. SEE, NOW, THAT'S NOT COOL. THIS IS THIS IS THIS IS THIS IS GOING TO BE THIS IS GOING TO BE ME. I HAVE I HAVE MORE OF A TIGHTER PERSPECTIVE ON CONSTITUTIONAL LAW THAN A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE DO. BUT IF HOLIDAY FIRST OFF, IF IF LIGHTING IS AN EXPRESSION, WHICH I'M GOING TO SAY IT IS, AND THEN WE USE THE TERM HOLIDAY LIGHTING, ARE WE GETTING INTO CONTENT BASED RESTRICTIONS JUST EXPRESSION OR RELIGIOUS? AND I WOULD TELL YOU THAT I THINK MCCONAUGHEY IS ON THE RIGHT ROAD IN THE FACT THAT LIGHTING MAY BE IT COULD HAVE SOME FIRST AMENDMENT IMPLICATIONS. AND BECAUSE FIRST AMENDMENT IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT, WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST TO INTERFERE IN THAT STRICT SCRUTINY. YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO WITH PROP FOR HERE, RIGHT? WHAT THAT IS. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WOULD BE STRICT SCRUTINY WITH LEAST RESTRICTIVE MEANS IN A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST. AND I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD. BUT SO JUST TO KEEP THAT THOUGHT GOING, THOUGH, WHAT DO WE HAVE AT THE CEMETERIES THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAT WE'RE SAYING? YOU KNOW, FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, OUR PROPERTY OKAY, OR THEIR PROPERTY THAT'S AFFECTED BY OUR PROPERTY, THAT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY, ON OUR PROPERTY, I'D SAY WE HAVE WE CAN REGULATE OUR OWN STUFF. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHERE I WOULD GO. 
          THERE IS WHERE WE'RE REGULATING MY MY BIGGEST WORRY IS ENFORCEMENT. YEAH. AND THAT'S ALWAYS KEEP YOUR LIGHTS OFF 11. HEY, CAN YOU GET A TEAM THAT GOES AROUND 11:00 AND MAKE SURE LIGHTS ARE OFF? THAT WON'T WORK OVERTIME? WELL, WE LET THAT BECOMES A THING THAT ANYONE COULD EASILY VIDEOTAPE. SO THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON. AND SEND IT IN YOUR SALARY. YOUR SALARY? YEAH. IT'S JUST ANOTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT. YEAH. NO, I KNOW WE CAN'T KEEP UP WITH. YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. IT IT'S HARD TO ENFORCE. MY QUESTION IS FOR MORE FOR LEGAL. WHAT DO WE ALREADY HAVE? WHAT'S GOVERNED UNDER NUISANCE LAWS ALREADY? THE GUY WITH THE FLOODLIGHTS ARGUABLY A NUISANCE, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE. ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT REGULATING SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY REGULATED? SO HAVE THAT RIGHT HAND RIGHT NOW. I COULD CERTAINLY LOOK INTO IT. PATRICK, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE LOOKED INTO THAT AT ALL. NO, I MEAN, BROCK WOULD PROBABLY BE THE MOST VERSED IN IN NUISANCE OR MAYBE IN NUISANCE. I, THINK. 
          BIGGEST NUISANCE RIGHT NOW. BUT BUT HE'S HE'S HE KNOWS HE KNOWS ABOUT THIS I WOULD I WOULD SAY THAT IT COULD BE THE, THE FLOOD LIGHTS COULD BE ESPECIALLY IF, IF IT'S SPILLING OVER AND CREATING A HEALTH HAZARD FOR, FOR THE NEIGHBOR. I MEAN, THOSE, THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS COULD BE I MEAN THE, THE FLASHING LIGHTS EVEN IN AND OF THEMSELVES COULD POTENTIALLY BE 
          [01:10:05]
ARGUED TO, TO FALL UNDER THE SAME, DEPENDING ON THE LUMENS AND JUST HOW BRIGHT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE THERE ARE SOME OF THESE SITUATIONS THAT THAT ARE, I THINK, SIMILAR WITH WHAT CODE ENFORCEMENT DEALS WITH ON A PRETTY REGULAR BASIS. BUT BUT YEAH, I MEAN, WE DO WE DO HAVE SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT MIGHT FIT. WE COULD FIT A SQUARE PEG IN A RECTANGLE HOLE. 
          IT JUST DEPENDING ON ON THE SIZE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'D BE EASIER TO REGULATE THE COMPANIES THAT SELL THE LUMENS, SAYING, IF YOU'RE GOING TO SELL THESE IN OUR CITY, IT'S GOT TO BE A CERTAIN THICKNESS OR BRIGHTNESS THAT IT CAN'T GO OVER THAT THRESHOLD. WELL, I MEAN, AND I THOUGHT THERE WERE SOME EXAMPLES IN HERE OF, OF MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAD SOME DARK SKY REQUIREMENTS AND HAD LIMITS ON OUTDOOR LIGHTING. AND SO, YEAH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DONE, I THINK IT'S ARE THERE LUMENS REALLY BRIGHT, CAN YOU TELL OR ARE THEY JUST NORMAL. WELL, THEY THE REAL HARD PART IS MOST PEOPLE AT THE HOUSE, YOU'RE ACROSS THE STREET, RIGHT. BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE ONLY LIGHTING THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE HERE ACROSS THE STREET. THIS GUY IS LITERALLY IF THAT'S THE BEDROOM WINDOW, THIS GUY'S HOUSE FRONT DOOR IS ABOUT THE END OF THE STABLE. AND SO IT BECOMES AND THERE'S A THERE'S A FENCE, BUT IT'S SO LIKE I SAID, THAT ONE, IT'S A WEIRD SITUATION AND IT'S HARD TO TO SAY I'M GOING TO COME UP WITH A LAW, A CODE FOR, YOU KNOW, 0.3% OF OUR CITY THAT WOULD FALL INTO MY NEIGHBOR HAS THE JELLYFISH AND IT GOES AROUND THE SIDE, AND I SEE HIM WHEN I POKE MY HEAD OUT THE BACK DOOR, BUT I DON'T SEE THEM. LIGHTING UP MY ROOMS. IF I LOOK FOR THIS ONE, LIGHTS UP THE GUY'S HOUSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FLOODLIGHTS. SOMETIMES. 
          SOMETIMES EVEN WITHOUT THE SOMETIMES GOVERNMENT CAN'T SOLVE EVERYBODY. YEAH, NO BUT I BUT I THIS IS SOMETHING I, I KEEP WANTING TO JUST. YEAH I'M LIKE I SAID I'VE, I'VE GONE AND TRIED TO PERSONALLY IN THIS BY TALKING TO THE NEIGHBOR. AND MY WORRY WAS THAT I JUST MADE IT WORSE BY, YOU KNOW, OH NOW YOU'RE GETTING THE CITY AND AFTER ME AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO. YEAH. THEY'RE ALL, THERE'S ALWAYS CIVIL NUISANCE. SO THERE'S, THERE'S SOUND ORDINANCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT SPILL OVER. SALT LAKE COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAVE ANY ENVIRONMENTAL CODE LIKE THAT AT ALL? I'M NOT I HAVEN'T LOOKED MY KNOWLEDGE FROM WRITING. WE'VE ADOPTED THEIR SOUND ORDINANCE BY CITY CODE. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF COUNTY HAD ANY INFORMATION ON THIS. WHAT I WILL DO THEN I WILL SEE IF WE GET ANYTHING ON THE NUISANCE SIDE. THAT'S WHERE I WOULD GO. LIKE THE DARK SKY THING. WE CAN LOOK INTO IT SOME MORE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SEE. I WOULD HAVE TO BE. I LEARNED A GREAT DEAL FROM WHAT ALL OF YOU SAY, SO I APPRECIATE ANY THOUGHTS ON THESE THINGS. YEAH, YEAH THAT'S TRUE. WE DO. I BELIEVE. DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. FOR COMMERCIAL. WE WE PUT A RESTRICTION ON LUMENS DON'T WE. AND THAT THEY HAVE TO BE ZERO CANDLES AND ON THE ELECTRIC BILLBOARDS WE HAVE FOR THAT. BUT WE DO HAVE STANDARDS ON LIGHTING FOR COMMERCIAL BACK HERE. I HAVE TO SAY IF WE MAKE THEM TURN THEIR LIGHTS OFF, I THINK THE RESIDENTS WILL BE DELIGHTED. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. THANKS FOR THAT ENLIGHTENING COMMENT. ALRIGHT, SO I'M SEEING THAT PRETTY MUCH. WE THINK THIS IS MORE OF A ONE OFF THAN. YEP. OKAY. AND IF WE CAN ADDRESS IT A DIFFERENT WAY THAN THE NUISANCE CODE, SOMEHOW I WOULD BE. THAT'S WHAT I'LL LOOK INTO. 
          AND I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY SAYING DON'T BRING IT BACK. YEAH, YEAH I APPRECIATE THAT. 
          [d.
 Discussion on Permitting and Regulating the Use of Golf Carts on City Streets]
WE'LL WAIT TILL IT'S OVER. ALL RIGHT. COOL. GREAT. THANK YOU. THE NEXT ONE IS A DISCUSSION ON PERMITTING AND REGULATING THE USE OF GOLF CARTS ON CITY STREETS. THIS IS CALVIN AND PAMELA, AND I JUST WANT TO START WITH SAYING, WELL, COUNCIL MEMBER BLUM IS NOT HERE. 
          WE ALREADY KNOW THAT SHE'S IN BAKER. SO AS THE DISCUSSION GOES FORWARD, WE'LL KNOW IF THAT'S WHERE THAT'S AT. I ALSO WANT TO ADD THAT ON A COMING FUTURE WORK MEETING, WE ALSO HAVE ELECTRIC SCOOTERS AND UNICYCLES AND JUST DIFFERENT MODES OF TRANSPORTATION. SO SOMETHING THAT AS WE WERE IN OUR LEADERSHIP MEETING THAT CAME TO ME WAS, OH MAN, REMEMBER HOW IT WAS WHEN THE FIRST CARS CAME OUT AND EVERYBODY HAD HORSE AND BUGGIES? 
          [01:15:05]
AND I'LL BET THERE WAS QUITE A BIT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW THOSE CARS WERE GOING TO RUIN EVERYTHING. E-BIKES VERSUS. AND SO BICYCLES VERSUS. SO JUST KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT MORE OF THIS SAME IN MY MIND, SAME TYPE OF DISCUSSION COMING FORWARD. AND I THINK IT'S BIGGER THAN GOLF CARTS OR ELECTRIC SCOOTERS OR AN E-BIKE OR I THINK IT'S THIS OVERARCHING THAT AS A COMMUNITY AND SOCIETY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVE MODES OF TRANSPORTATION BESIDES CARS, AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH IT. YEAH, AND SOON THERE WILL BE THOSE HOVERCRAFTS THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE ALL THOSE OLYMPIC VISITORS FROM ONE FORM TO ANOTHER. WELL, SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR THE BACK TO THE FUTURE SKATEBOARDS, RIGHT. CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION AS WE START INTO THIS AND I ASK OUR POLICE FORCE, HOW MANY GOLF CARTS HAVE YOU PULLED OVER AND ARRESTED IN THE PAST YEAR IN YOUR COUNTY? YEAH. YOU WOULDN'T ARREST HIM, I THINK. ARE YOU A SERGEANT? SERGEANT HUTCHINGS IS MORE OUR EXPERT ON IT. WELL, YOU'VE BEEN SENT TWICE, SO SOMEBODY THINKS YOU ARE. IN MY PAST YEAR, I'VE HAD TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT GOLF CARTS. ONE WAS, IS IT LEGAL? AND THE OTHER WAS CAN THEIR CHILD DRIVE? SO THOSE ARE THE ONLY EXPERIENCE I'VE HAD WITH ACTUAL WHAT WERE THE ANSWERS? NO, IT'S NOT LEGAL IN YOUR CHILD CAN'T DRIVE. I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING TOO IS HAVE WE HAD COMPLAINTS OF ROGUE GOLF CART? YOU KNOW, POSSES GOING AROUND? NOTHING. I WOULD DESCRIBE IT THAT WAY. NO, WE'VE HAD COMPLAINTS OF GOLF CARTS BEING RECKLESSLY. OKAY THROUGH OUR CITY PARKS. THAT HAPPENS THROUGHOUT THE CITY ON THE GRASS. MOSTLY UNDER 18. NOT OUR PARKS DEPARTMENT, IS IT? FROM THE RODEO ARENA? YEAH. THAT'S NOT LIMITED TO GOLF CARTS ITSELF. THAT'S E-BIKES WITHOUT PEDALS, LIKE ACTUAL MOTORCYCLE ONES. ACTUAL MOTORCYCLES, ATVS SIDE BY SIDE. SOUTH JORDAN'S HAVING A REAL PROBLEM WITH THE ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE. SO. GOOD TO KNOW. OKAY, I DON'T HAVE A PARK VERY CLOSE TO ME, SO OBSERVE THAT. CAN I SPEAK TO THIS? YES, I THINK I AM IN FAVOR OF IT. WHAT IT WOULD NEED TO BE FOR LICENSED DRIVERS AND WE CAN'T LICENSE. YOU CAN'T REQUIRE LICENSES FOR GOLF CARTS. STATE STATUTE. I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A 16 YEARS THAT THE ORDINANCE DOES SAY 16. OKAY. THEN WE COULD SAY 16 YEARS OLD AND ABOVE. SO AGAIN, IT'S ALREADY GOVERNED BY STATE STATUTE. SO WE WANT TO STATE MAKE A CITY LAW THAT SAYS, YEAH, WE AGREE WITH THE STATE STATUTE, OKAY. WELL WE CAN DECIDE THE AGE. WE CAN'T SAY THAT IT HAS TO BE A LICENSED DRIVER. WE CAN DECIDE. THE AGE ALREADY SAYS THE AGE OF 16. WELL, THE THE THE STATE STATUTE DOESN'T SAY THE AGE. IT ALLOWS US TO SET THE AGE. IF WE SET IT AT 16, THEN THE LIKELIHOOD IS THAT THEY COULD BE A LICENSED DRIVER OR AT LEAST HAVE THE ID THAT WE WOULD WANT. MR. ANDERSON, CAN WE JUST BACK UP A LITTLE BIT? THIS IS THIS IS A RECALL BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T ALLOWED GOLF CARTS. SORRY, WE CAN'T BACK UP YET. THE THE INFORMATION IS GOLF CARTS ARE ILLEGAL BY STATE LAW UNLESS THE COUNCIL PERMITS THEM. AND YOU CAN SET THE PARAMETERS OF WHICH HIGHWAYS THEY CAN OPERATE ON AND WHO MAY OPERATE ON A GOLF CART ON A ON A HIGHWAY AND A HIGHWAY DOESN'T MEAN BANGERTER ROAD AND THE HOURS ON WHICH A GOLF CART, THAT'S THAT'S STATE STATUTE. SO WHEN THE STATE SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE 16 MINIMUM, IF YOU DON'T ALLOW IT BY ORDINANCE IN THE CITY, IT'S ILLEGAL. YOU CAN'T DO IT. THIS WAS AT THE DISCUSS AT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON JULY 8TH. AND THERE WERE FOUR OF YOU THAT ASKED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH DRAFTING AN ORDINANCE. WHAT WE GATHERED, WORKING WITH MR. BOYCE FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IS ALLOW GOLF CARTS ON ROADS WITH SPEED LIMITS UNDER 35 MILES AN HOUR. SO THE PROPOSED CODE THAT'S BEFORE YOU IS 30 MILES AN HOUR, WITH TWO EXCEPTIONS, I DON'T KNOW. THE EXCEPTIONS ARE IN THE CODE BECAUSE I COULDN'T GET CONSENSUS. YEAH, 27TH AND 32ND. AND I WOULD WANT TO ADD 48TH RIGHT THERE. SAFETY CONCERNS WERE THESE ARE JUST A SYNOPSIS OF WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. SAFETY CONCERNS WERE RAISED, 
          [01:20:07]
ESPECIALLY REGARDING UNLICENSED MINORS, OPERATING CARTS AND POTENTIAL ACCIDENTS WITH LARGER VEHICLES. AS THE DISCUSSION CONTINUED, THE SUGGESTIONS INCLUDED LIMITING USE TO SUNRISE TO SUNSET, SO CIVIL SUNRISE TO CIVIL SUNSET, AND YOU CAN'T DRIVE THEM AFTER THAT. 
          MINIMUM DRIVER AGE OF 16. AND IT IS CORRECT THAT YOU CANNOT REQUIRE A DRIVER'S LICENSE BECAUSE THE STATE HAS A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT IDENTIFICATIONS. HELMET REQUIREMENT IS WHAT WAS ASKED FOR FOR PASSENGERS UNDER THE AGE OF 16, AND THE LIMIT TO THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF SEATS THAT WERE INSTALLED AT THE TIME THE GOLF CART WAS MANUFACTURED, SO YOU CAN'T ADD MORE SEATS TO WHAT WAS MANUFACTURED AND TO PROHIBIT THEM IN CITY PARKS, TRAILS, AND SIDEWALKS. I HAD GIS PREPARE A MAP WITH ALL OF THE ROADS THAT ARE 30 MILES AN HOUR. IT DOESN'T INCLUDE ANY STATE ROADS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL GREATER THAN 30 MILES AN HOUR. 
          I ALSO LOOKED AT GOLF CART MANUFACTURERS AND PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY THE FASTEST. THE GOLF CART WILL GO AS MANUFACTURED IS 25 MILES AN HOUR. SAINT GEORGE, NEPHI, HURRICANE AND HIGHLAND ARE CITIES THAT WE FOUND THAT HAVE GOLF CART ORDINANCE. THIS WOULD BE WE WOULD BE THE FIRST CITY IN SALT LAKE COUNTY WITH THE GOLF CART ORDINANCE. AND SO WHAT'S BEFORE YOU IS WHAT WE HAVE THAT THE DRAFT CODE IS WHAT WAS WHAT WE HAD IDENTIFIED. AT LEAST FOUR OF YOU AGREED. SO I'M IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE IT REALLY HELPS BECAUSE. HONESTLY, WHAT I SEE IS, IS WE'LL SEE. WHAT I SEE IS, IS, IS TEENAGERS, YOU KNOW, YOUNG TEENAGERS DRIVING THESE THINGS. I COULD SEE IT. I COULD SEE IT ACTUALLY HELPING ELDERLY. I CAN'T GET TO A GROCERY STORE. IF THEY COULD GET ONTO ONE OF THE ROADS THAT MOST CHURCHES ARE ON 35 MILE ROADS, THE GROCERY STORES ARE. SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY CAN GO OTHER THAN IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND AND I GUESS IF YOUR NEIGHBOR IS BIG ENOUGH. SO. AND IF I SAW A GOLF CART IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I WOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING, I MEAN, I SEE IT ALL THE TIME. THEY ALREADY TRIED THINGS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ALL THE TIME. I SEE I SEE GOLF CARTS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I NEVER WELL, I'VE NEVER SEEN THEM DRIVING RECKLESSLY, SO I'VE NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT IT, BUT I'M SURE THEY DO. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THEY DO, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WE GET A LOT OF NUISANCE CALLS AND WHETHER THEY GET REPORTED OR NOT, RIGHT. LIKE WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW ABOUT IT UNTIL IT GETS REPORTED. RIGHT. SO THEY'RE DRIVING NORMALLY OR DRIVING COURTEOUSLY. 
          WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER HEAR ABOUT IT. IT'S THE ONES THAT ARE BEING RECKLESS OR CAUSING ISSUES DURING THE NIGHT. SO IT'S PROBABLY HAPPENING AND WE JUST DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY'RE ACTIVE. IN A COMMENT, I WAS GOING TO MAKE ONE. SOMEBODY MENTIONED ABOUT ELDERLY DRIVING. 
          I GREW UP IN WEST JORDAN. MY MOM LIVES ON 3200 WEST. WE'VE TAKEN HER KEYS AWAY. I WOULD RATHER HER CRY OF HER MOTOR VEHICLE THAN BE INVOLVED. OH, SURE, BECAUSE OF THE SAFETY. 
          RIGHT? SO TO SAY IT WILL HELP THE ELDERLY. ME PERSONALLY WITH AN ELDERLY PARENT, I DISAGREE. 
          LIKE YOU'RE NOT BUYING HER A GOLF CART, BUT YOU GO TO SAY YOU GO TO SAINT GEORGE AND YOU SEE GOLF CARTS AT CHURCHES ALL THE TIME, WOULD YOU BUY HER AN E-BIKE? NO, THAT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF COMMUNITY SETTING. THEY TRICKY, BUT I MEAN, THINK, THINK, THINK ABOUT WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BUILDING THE RETIREMENT. WE'RE BUILDING A FAIRLY GOOD SIZED RETIREMENT SUBDIVISION ON THE CORNER OF 48, 48 AND 78. AND IF THEY HAD A WAY TO GET AROUND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, GET TO THE HOPEFULLY THE CONVENIENCE STORE ON THE CORNER WITH THE NEW OIL CHANGE, PLACE THE NEW OIL CHANGE PLACE IN THEIR GOLF CART. GOLF CART IS. SO TO CONTINUE THE QUESTION THOUGH, WE WE TALKED ABOUT OTHER FORMS LIKE THE E-BIKES AND THE SCOOTERS AND THINGS. WHAT WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN THAT THAT HAS BEEN MAYBE A CONCERN FOR YOU. SO THE CLASSIFICATIONS OF E-BIKES AND E-BIKE ITSELF HAS THE ASSIST ASSISTED PEDALS. RIGHT. I SEE MORE OF THE ONES WITHOUT PEDALS SO CLASSIFIED AS A MOTORCYCLE. YEAH. AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING FAST ON THE SIDEWALKS, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO I THINK WE NEED TO EDUCATE THOSE PEOPLE, STOP, MAKE THOSE CONTACTS, EDUCATE THEM. THEY'RE A MOTORCYCLE. THEY CAN'T BE ON THE SIDE ABOUT THE SCOOTER. THAT'S IS THAT YOU CLASSIFY THAT AS A MOTORCYCLE. THE 
          [01:25:01]
ELECTRONIC SCOOTERS, THEY'RE CLASSIFIED AS UNDER THE E-BIKE TYPE CODE. SO WE DON'T HAVE THOSE OKAY. YOU KNOW, AND WITH SIDEWALKS EIGHT MILES AN HOUR OR LESS, LIKE WE COULD BE DOING MORE. BUT AGAIN, NOT ADVOCATING FOR MORE OFFICERS. BUT WE'RE ALREADY TAXED, ESPECIALLY IN OUR TRAFFIC DIVISION. LIKE, ARE WE GOING TO SPEND OUR RESOURCES CHASING CARS IN A HIGH SPEED? SO INCIDENT RATHER THAN THE TRAFFIC ACCIDENT? PEOPLE ARE ALREADY USING A POINT OF ORDER, RIGHT? WE GOT. TO GET BACK ON. WELL, IT'S RELATED TO THAT. NO, THAT'S BECAUSE THIS IS ALL GOING TO THERE IS A THERE IS A WORK SESSION TOPIC COMING UP. YEAH. SOON THAT I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME INFORMATION FOR THAT MOBILITY VEHICLES. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS A DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATION THAN THOSE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSING. RIGHT. ALL I WAS DOING, COUNCILMAN, WAS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME INFORMATION FOR WORDING THINGS IN THE ORDINANCE, BUT I'M GOOD WITH THE GENERAL OUTLINE. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EXCEPTIONS FOR A COUPLE OF STREETS. I'M GOOD WITH THOSE IF YOU WANTED TO ADD THEM, I. I DON'T WANT EXCEPTIONS FOR STREETS BECAUSE THEN I WORRY ABOUT AS EVERY TIME WE CHANGE A SPEED LIMIT, CHANGE THE SPEED LIMIT, EVERY TIME A ROAD CHANGES AND DEVELOPMENT GOES IN, SOMETHING CHANGES. THEN WE GOT TO LOOK AT, WELL, SHOULD THERE BE AN EXCEPTION FOR THIS STREET OR THAT STREET, THERE'S GOING TO BE A 35. I DON'T KNOW IF THE MAIN ROAD GOING INTO TERRAIN IS GOING TO BE A 35 MILE AN HOUR ZONE OR NOT. I DON'T PROBABLY WON'T, BUT IF IT WAS NOW WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT, OKAY, DO WE WANT AN EXCEPTION FOR THAT ROAD TO, YOU KNOW, 6700 WEST IS 35 MILES AN HOUR? I THINK IT'S PROBABLY A LOT LESS TRAFFIC THAN 2700 WEST. DO WE NEED TO INCLUDE THAT ONE? I DON'T WANT TO START THROWING AN EXCEPTION INSTEAD OF STANDARD AND LIVE WITH THE STANDARD. AS FAR AS AS FAR AS THAT GOES, I THINK RELATED TO THIS, MORE SO THAN SCOOTERS AND E-BIKES THOUGH, IS FOUR WHEELERS. FOUR WHEELERS ARE A LOT MORE LIKE A GOLF CART. I AM SEEING MORE OF THOSE AND I SEE A LOT OF FOUR WHEELERS. I GO TO MY FRIENDS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO MY WEST, BUT WELL. BUT THE SIDE BY SIDE, THE STREET LEGAL AND LICENSED IF THEY ARE MADE STREET LEGAL, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE. SO THE WESTERNMOST NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE CITY, WHICH I WILL REMAIN NAMELESS. THERE'S A LOT OF FOUR WHEELERS. OH, YEAH, IT'S TERRAIN NOW. SORRY. YOU WERE. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER TYPE OF TREE. FORMER. YEAH. FORMER WESTERN SYCAMORE. YEAH. THERE'S A LOT OF FOUR WHEELERS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE THE SOON TO BE FORMER MEADOWS PROPERTY IS THEIR FAVORITE PLAYGROUND. THERE'S A LOT OF THEM THAT JUST RIDE FROM THEIR HOUSE OUT AND STOP AT THE HOLIDAY ON THE CORNER. GET THEIR SODA AND THEN GO RIDE OVER THROUGH THE GRAVEL PIT. OKAY. SO I THINK THAT'S A THAT'S A RELATED ISSUE. THIS I'M OKAY WITH, EXCEPT FOR MINE, 36 I THINK IS SILLY. IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON UNDER THE AGE OF 16 TO VIOLATE THIS CHAPTER. IS IT UNLAWFUL FOR ANYBODY TO VIOLATE ANY CHAPTER OF THE LAW? YEAH, THAT'S WHY I SAID THERE WERE A COUPLE OF WORDING THINGS BECAUSE LIKE IT SAYS A, B AND C YOU MAY PERMIT, BUT THEN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THERE'S ONE THAT SAYS I WANT THIS TO CONTINUE. THERE'S A COUPLE OF IF WE WANT TO DO THIS, THERE'S A COUPLE OF WORDING CHANGES. SO WHAT ARE THE WORDING CHANGES. BECAUSE I'M COUNTING AND I THINK YOU'VE GOT YOUR FOUR. AND THAT'S WITHOUT ASKING. SO CALVIN CAN'T ZACH AND PAMELA ARE YOU OKAY IF THAT IS TRUE. SO LET'S JUST GET IT TO HOW WE WANT IT. AND THEN IT CAN COME BECAUSE WE HAVE TIME. THE ONLY THING I THAT ONE I AGREE WITH ZACH ON THE B. IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR SOME. IF THEY DID YOU DO THIS. YEAH. THAT'S JUST MOVE THE TABLE PLEASE SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THE CHANGES. I WAS HOPING TO NOT NOT YOUR BOSS CAN OVERRULE ME, BUT I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT YOU. YEAH. THAT SECTION I AGREE. I DON'T LIKE IT. IT'S JUST MIRRORED FROM OTHER EXAMPLES FROM OTHER CITIES THAT THAT HAVE SIMILAR STATUTES. SO YEAH. NO NO CITIES. SO THAT'S WHY IF YOU'RE OPPOSED TO ANY CHANGES THAT ARE BROUGHT UP, PLEASE VOICE THAT. OTHERWISE WE'LL ASK PATRICK TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES. THE SO I LIKE BE THE ONE THAT THE ONE THAT I, THE THE THE THE THE COUPLE. AND WE MAY NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OR THE WORDING. BUT ON LINE 15 IT SAYS GOLF CARTS MAY BE OPERATED WITHIN THE CITY PURSUANT TO THE FOLLOWING. AND THEN IN B IT SAYS MAY NOT BE OPERATED. AND THEN IT SAYS MAY ONLY BE, MAY BE MAY NOT BE. IT'S UNLAWFUL TO I THINK WHAT WE OUGHT TO SAY IS GOLF CARTS MAY BE OPERATED UNDER THESE PROVISIONS. THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS ARE 
          [01:30:04]
ILLEGAL AND HAVE LIKE AN A ONE AND A TWO WITH THE A, B AND ONE IS THESE ARE THE THIS IS HOW YOU OPERATE THEM. TWO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE ILLEGAL. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE PATRICK I THINK SO YEAH I CAN I CAN WORK WITH YOU. I CAN REWORD THAT ONE TO MAKE IT IS BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE GOT IS WE'VE GOT THE THE MAZE AND THE MAY NOT BE BURIED. IT'D BE EASIER JUST TO SAY ONE GOLF CARTS MAY BE OPERATED THIS WAY. TWO, THEY MAY NOT BE OPERATED OR WE CHANGE IT TO SAY MAY ONLY BE OPERATED FROM AND REVERSE THE TERMS FROM CIVIL SUNRISE TO CIVIL SUNSET. 
          INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT'S UNLAWFUL, THEY CAN ONLY BE OPERATED PROTEST. YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT? JUST TO MAKE THEM ALL MORE CONSISTENT. BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. SO JUST TO PUT IN THE SILLY QUESTION, BECAUSE WE BROUGHT UP SILLINESS, WE'RE ASSUMING THAT ALL GOLF COURSE GOLF CART RULES ARE STILL OKAY BECAUSE IT'S THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY OF YEAH, YEAH, THIS IS ONLY I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A FAIR QUESTION. YEAH. IN CASE SOMEONE SAID, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE. MY 14 YEAR OLD SON LIKES TO DRIVE THE GOLF CART. GOLF CART ON THE GOLF COURSE? YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO. YEAH. WE. AND GILMORE. GILMORE. GLENMOOR. GLENMOOR ALLOW IT. 
          THEN THEY CAN. IT'S GLENMOOR AND WESTWOOD. NO, NO. PRETTY CLOSE TO WESTWOOD. NO. TOUCH. 
          YEAH. I JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT I AM OPPOSING THIS. SO YOU'RE PULLING ME FOR THE FOUR VOTES IF YOU WANT TO PASS. WELL, WE CAN PASS. AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE TO DETERMINE IF YOU WANT TO VETO IT OR NOT. WE'LL DECIDE WHAT WE WANT TO DO, AND THEN WE'LL NEED FOR THEM FOR. DON'T YOU THREATEN US NOW. I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR YOUR REASONS. YEAH, I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS. I THINK IT ADDS ADDITIONAL RISK FOR DRIVERS ON THE ROADS. HIS INITIAL REASON FOR DOING THIS WAS FOR THE ELDERLY TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE ON THE ROADS, AND I THINK THAT ADDS A BIG RISK. AND I AND I DON'T SEE ANY NEED FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE TO USE GOLF CARTS ON THE ROAD BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT STREET WORTHY FOR DRIVING ON THE STREETS. THEY SHOULD BE ON BIKES LIKE THE MERITED RIGHT. THE BIKE IS SAFER THAN A GOLF CART. IT'S NOT. BUT THE GOLF CARTS HAVE A HIGHER CHANCE OF GETTING HIT BY A CAR, HITTING SOMEBODY WHEN KIDS ARE DRIVING THEM. AND I THINK, I DON'T KNOW, I'D SAY MOTORCYCLES. I WONDER THE NUMBER OF MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENTS. I WONDER IF HAVING THE LAW ALLOWING THESE SPECIFIC WHATEVERS BRING MORE OF THEM WILL CHANGE THE BEHAVIOR OF ANYBODY. I THINK IT'LL INCREASE THE AMOUNT PEOPLE USE THEM. 
          THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T DOING IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK THEY CAN. I THINK MORE SAFER PEOPLE MIGHT TRY AND GET OUT THERE, WHICH WILL INCREASE THE YOUNGER PEOPLE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY'LL BE MORE, I DON'T THINK, AVAILABLE. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A BIG GOLF CART COMMUNITY. RIGHT. WE'RE NOT LIKE SEEING I MEAN, LOOK AT LOOK AT, LOOK AT SOUTH JORDAN DAYBREAK. THAT WOULD BE KIND OF LIKE THE GOLF CART COMMUNITY. THAT'D BE CRAZY TO HAVE THOSE STREETS. AND FRANKLY, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN PROTECTING EVERYBODY FROM THEMSELVES IN ALL CASES, SOMEBODY WANTS TO WALK DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. THEY'RE TAKING A RISK. 
          AND MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT THAT'S A RISK. AND THEN THE RIGHT OF WAY IS THERE PEDESTRIAN? COMMENT. SO FROM A TRAFFIC INVESTIGATION STANDPOINT, GOLF CART DOES NOT HAVE TO BE REGISTERED OR INSURED. SO IF YOU HAVE A GOLF CART DRIVER THAT RUNS INTO YOUR VEHICLE THAT'S PARKED ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, IS IT AN ACCIDENT OR A PROPERTY DAMAGE? AND WHO PAYS FOR IT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT INSURED, NOT REGISTERED. THEY'RE NOT LICENSED. AND THAT'S JUST OFF THE GOLF CART. THAT'S A PARKED CAR. SO NOW YOU HAVE GOLF CART CROSSING THE ROAD THAT GETS HIT BY ANOTHER CAR. HOW ARE WE GOING TO DOCUMENT THAT FOR THAT PERSON NOT REGISTERED, NOT LICENSED, NOT INSURED. BECAUSE WE DON'T REQUIRE ANY OF THOSE THINGS. AND IN A IN A REGULAR CIVIL CONTEXT IT'S NOT ANY DIFFERENT. RIGHT. IF A BICYCLE RUNS INTO A PARKED CAR. YEAH, IT'S NOT ANY DIFFERENT OR ANYBODY. OH I'M SORRY, I COULD PROBABLY TOUCH THAT UP WITH A PARKED CAR. THE HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE COVERS IT. WELL, THE HOMEOWNER'S INSURANCE COVERAGE, I WOULD SUPPOSE. BUT AGAIN, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT I SEE AND HOW WE SOMEBODY HAS TO BICYCLE PARKED CARS. I VERY NEARLY HIT PARKED CARS. 
          I'M SURE YOU ARE TOO. SO AM I, I'VE HAD SOME PARKED CARS BARELY, BARELY HIT ME OR NEARLY HIT ME. PARKED CAR YET YOU. YEAH. THE DOOR'S OPEN. IT'S A OKAY, OKAY, I AGREE WITH I 
          [01:35:04]
AGREE WITH ZACH. YOU CAN'T. I DON'T THINK YOU PROTECT EVERYBODY FROM EVERYTHING. YOU CAN'T PROTECT PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES. YOU CAN'T. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU JUST DON'T TRY. 
          WELL, THE STATE LAW GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PEOPLE WITH AN ALTERNATIVE FORM OF TRANSPORTATION. THAT'S ALL THIS IS INTENDED TO BE. STATE LAW, DISTRIBUTED. ANY OTHER. 16102 THAT'S THE DEFINITION. 15 SPECIAL VEHICLES. ALL RIGHT. I THINK I'VE GOT MY MARCHING ORDERS FROM. THE COUNCIL. GOOD. THEN BRINGING IT BACK TO A BUSINESS MEETING AND PUTTING THAT TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. WHICH WOULD YOU LIKE? I THINK IT COULD GO TO A BUSINESS MEETING. I DON'T THINK MUCH IS GOING TO CHANGE. I THINK YOU'VE GOT THOSE THAT THINK IT'S GOOD AND THOSE THAT MAYBE DON'T. THANK YOU. WE KNOW WHAT THE BEARS COME TO, AND WE KNOW IF WE DON'T HAVE FIVE OR MORE, THE MAYOR WILL BE VETOING IT. IT'LL BE DEAD. THANK YOU. COMMENT ABOUT THE E-BIKES. I KNOW THAT'LL COME UP. THERE IS SOME STATE LAW ABOUT E-BIKES, AND WE'RE GOING TO LAUNCH AN EDUCATION INITIATIVE TO THE COMMUNITY TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S AWARE OF CLASSIFICATIONS OF SCOOTERS, E-BIKES AND THOSE STATE LAWS. 
          IF YOU WOULD LIKE, I CAN INCLUDE YOU IN ANY WAY PUBLICLY, SO THAT WILL HELP UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE STARTING FROM AS FAR AS STATE CODE GOES. AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO MAKE CHANGES OR ADDITIONS TO THAT, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF E-BIKE STORES HERE IN THE CITY. CAN WE REQUIRE THEM? WE CAN'T REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE SOME SORT OF INFORMATION. HANG ON ONE SECOND. ARE WE DONE WITH 
          [ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS]
THIS? AND WE'RE GOING TO GO TO ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS AND THAT CAN CONTINUE. OKAY. JUST SO EVERYBODY'S CLEAR. NO MORE TALKING ABOUT GOLF CARTS. START OVER. BACK UP. OR IMPACT FEES. 
          BUT CAN WE REQUIRE THE E-BIKE SHOPS THAT OPERATE WITHIN THE CITY TO HAVE SOME SORT OF EDUCATIONAL THING THAT THEY HAND OUT WHEN AN E-BIKE IS SOLD THAT SAYS, YOU YOU'VE GOT TO, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE LIST. WE DO IT WITH FIREWORKS, RIGHT? WE SAY, HERE'S STATE LAW. DOES THAT THOUGH, RIGHT? IT REQUIRES FIREWORKS TO HAND OUT A THING THAT SAYS, HERE'S WHERE YOU HAVE IT POSTED OR HAVE IT POSTED OR WHATEVER, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO REQUIRE A A CITY REQUIREMENT OF HERE'S, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOVE IT TO BE STATEWIDE. DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT HERE'S HOW DO YOU GET A WALMART IN COSTCO? THERE'S NO COSTCO. YEAH, IT GETS PROGRAMED INTO THEIR RECEIPT OR OR IT GETS STUCK IN THE LITTLE THING WITH THE OWNER'S MANUAL. WALMART CAN DO THAT WITH THEIR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER PACKING I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING. I'M JUST THINKING JUST THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NOW. I'M THINKING WE COULD DO THAT, THOUGH. WE TALKED ABOUT SIMILAR ORDINANCES BEFORE WITH LIKE GRAFFITI SPRAY CANS. THIS WAS 15 YEARS AGO. 12 YEARS LIKE THAT. I WAS ON THE RADIO FOR THAT ONE. I WAS I WAS JUST ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          BUT YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT IT WITH GRAFFITI, WITH SPRAY PAINTS AND FORCING YOU TO PUT UP SIGNS OR TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, THERE YOU HAVE TO SHOW ID TO BUY SPRAY PAINT. SOME STORES DO YOU KNOW, YOU GO INTO HOME, GO INTO HOME DEPOT AND TRY TO BUY A CAN OF SPRAY PAINT. THIS HAPPENED TO ME AND THEY SAY, AND IT ACTUALLY POPS UP AND IT POPS UP AND ON THEIR CASH REGISTER, THE THEY HAVE TO VERIFY THAT YOU'RE OVER AGE 18 TO BUY SPRAY PAINT. NOW YOU CAN SEE. WHAT'S THAT? DID YOU CONVINCE HIM? YEAH, I THINK I'M OVER AGE 18. SHE GOES, YEAH, I THINK YOU ARE TOO. AND HE TAGGED THE STORE ON THE WAY OUT. COPIES. OKAY. JUST A JUST A THOUGHT, BUT BUT BUT TO HIS POINT, IF THERE ARE THINGS WITH THE E-BIKES THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS AS WELL, BECAUSE THEY'RE BECOMING MORE OF AN ALTERNATE FORM OF TRANSPORTATION. AND IF THERE'S THINGS, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THOSE LIKE THOSE GREEN SCOOTERS RIGHT THERE. I'VE SEEN SOME IN THE CITY. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ENDED UP HERE, BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK WE PERMITTED IT. WELL, THEY GET ON TRACKS WITH IT OR ON THE BUS, HAVE A WAY TO ALLOW THEM. BUT BUT BUT THEY HAVEN'T. WE DON'T HAVE ANY COMPANIES HAVE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          RIGHT. AND, AND AND SO YOU KNOW, DO WE NEED TO RELOOK AT THAT ORDINANCE AND SOME OF THOSE FOR ALL OF THESE WEIRD FORMS? I MEAN, AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT I'M NOT JOKING AT THE FACT THAT SOMEDAY BACK TO THE FUTURE'S HOVERCRAFT SKATEBOARDS GOING TO BE FLOATING DOWN THE STREET IN WEST JORDAN CITY. YEAH, THERE'S SEGWAYS, YOU KNOW. TEN YEARS AGO. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IF 
          [01:40:06]
THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THAT THAT WE NEED TO HELP ADDRESS WITH THE ORDINANCES, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE KIND OF THINGS, I'D SAY BRING THEM TO US AND LET'S LOOK AT THEM. YEAH, IT CAN DEFINITELY BE A BROADER CONVERSATION THAN GOLF CARTS. YEAH. WELL, AND IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE WILL BE HAVING THAT ON A FUTURE WORK SESSION. YEAH, I DON'T THINK I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO LIMIT THE CONVERSATIONS TO ONE VEHICLE TYPE AT A TIME. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CLASS OF THINGS ALL KIND OF FALLING UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA. I'M NOT POINT OF THE E-BIKES. I CANNOT REMEMBER WHO WAS GOING TO BE MY SECOND ON THAT. I THOUGHT I WOULD. ASK. IT WAS, WELL, DID YOU ASK THAT? I ASKED YOU DID. A GOOD THING ABOUT THE E-BIKES IS THE STATE IS LOOKING INTO DOING STATEWIDE. OKAY, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I'D ASK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS TOPIC? NO. ON ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION, WHICH WE WERE JUST CHECKING WHICH TOPIC. 
          SO I HAVE A QUESTION THAT ANYONE IN THE ROOM CAN ANSWER. TOMORROW IS THE CHAMBER GALA. 
          IF YOU SIGNED UP TO GO, PLEASE REMEMBER AND THEY WANT US TO DRESS IN VINTAGE VEGAS. VEGAS. 
          I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THAT IS. IT SAID BUSINESS BUSINESS. IT SAID BUSINESS CASUAL WITH GLITZY. SO WHATEVER THE HECK THAT MEANS. JUST LIKE ELVIS, I HAVE TWO REALLY COOL. I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING MYSELF. IF SOMEONE NEEDS ONE FOR COOL, BUT I CAN'T, I CAN'T BE THERE MY SIZE. YOU CAN TRY ON THIS JACKET. ALL RIGHT. IF THERE IS NOTHING ELSE, GO AHEAD, MR. LEE. MR. ITEMS, WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME. WE DO. I'D LIKE YOU TO HEAR FROM CHIEF MAXFIELD. SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, HE BRIEFED YOU ON A FIRE TRUCK, NOT A FIRE TRUCK. BUT THAT WAS A GREAT PUSH IN CEREMONY. NO, I WAS TALKING ABOUT BUYING A FIRE TRUCK. NO, NO, NO, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. WE'RE I WANT TO HE TALKED ABOUT THIS GAP WE HAVE IN CARE WHERE SOMEONE NEEDS HELP. THEY CALL 911. WE SHOW UP WITH HEAVY APPARATUS AND FIRST RESPONDERS GET THEM TO THE HOSPITAL. BUT THAT DOESN'T WANT THE MINIVAN. I KNEW IT DOESN'T REALLY TAKE CARE OF THE OF THE ISSUES OF GOLF CART. AND SOMETIMES THERE'S THERE'S LONG TERM NEEDS OR THERE'S SYSTEMIC ISSUES AND CHALLENGES WITH THE HOME, WITH THE PATIENT THAT NEED ADDRESSING BEYOND WHAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS SET UP TO DO. CHIEF HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO SOLVE THAT GAP IN SERVICE DELIVERY FOR A LONG TIME, AND WE'VE RECENTLY PARTNERED WITH A COMPANY THAT IS HELPING US FILL THAT GAP, OR AT LEAST ASSESS, RESPOND AND SEE IF THE RESIDENTS WANT THAT GAP FILLED. I'D LIKE HIM IF YOU'RE OKAY AND WE HAVE TIME, I'D LIKE HIM TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THAT. PLEASE JOIN THE TABLE. THANKS, CORBIN. LIKE CORBIN SAID, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE NOTICED. I'VE NOTICED IT MY WHOLE CAREER. WE RESPOND ON PEOPLE THAT MAYBE THEY'RE ELDERLY OR THEY HAVE HEALTH CHALLENGES, THAT THEY JUST NEED HELP. AND EMS IS REALLY THE ONLY AVENUE THEY HAVE. AND SO WE SHOW UP AND THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT WE CAN DO. WE EITHER TAKE THEM TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, HAVE THEM SIGN A RELEASE. SOMETIMES WE'RE ABLE TO REFER TO LIKE AGING SERVICES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN. I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT'S BEEN ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED. AND SO, LIKE CORBIN SAID, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT SOME DIFFERENT THINGS AND KIND OF TRIED. WE WE FOUND THIS COMPANY, A HOME HEALTH AND HOSPICE COMPANY, MET WITH THEM A FEW TIMES, JUST PRELIMINARILY, TO TO KIND OF GIVE THEM A VISION OF WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR AND SEE IF THEY WERE WILLING TO WORK WITH US. WHAT WE PROPOSED TO THEM WAS THAT WE WANTED BASICALLY AN AGREEMENT WITH THEM, AND A GUARANTEE THAT WE COULD REFER PATIENTS THAT WE FELT NEEDED SOME OF THAT CARE TO THEM, AND THAT AT NO COST TO THE CITY OR NO COST TO THE CITIZEN, THEY WOULD GO OUT WITHIN 24 TO 48 HOURS AND DO AN ASSESSMENT AND SEE IF THERE WERE SERVICES THAT THEY COULD PROVIDE, OR THAT THEY COULD WORK WITH ONE OF THEIR PARTNERS TO PROVIDE FOR, FOR THESE CITIZENS. SO. A LOT OF NEGOTIATING BACK AND FORTH AND DISCUSSING THINGS. BUT BASICALLY WE'VE WE'VE GOT THIS AGREEMENT IN PLACE WITH THEM. 
          WE JUST KIND OF WENT LIVE WITH IT PROBABLY THREE WEEKS AGO, OUR FIRST OUR VERY FIRST OUT OF THE GATE PATIENT, I HAD KIND OF BRIEFED THE CREWS AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING. WE'VE GOT THE AGREEMENT IN PLACE, BUT WE HAVEN'T ROLLED OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT WORK YET. AND I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO BE MINDFUL THAT THIS IS AN OPTION 
          [01:45:01]
AVAILABLE TO YOU. ABOUT A DAY OR TWO LATER, I GOT AN EMAIL FROM ONE OF OUR CAPTAINS THAT GAVE ME A LOT OF DESCRIPTION AND HE SAID, HEY, WE RESPONDED. ON THIS ELDERLY COUPLE. SHE HAD FALLEN OUT OF BED. SHE NEEDED HELP. SHE WAS A DEMENTIA PATIENT. IN THE CONVERSATION WITH HER AND HER HUSBAND, HER HUSBAND'S EXPRESSED THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY RESOURCES AND HE'S AFRAID HE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HER ANYMORE. IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN HELP THEM? SO I, I WE HAVE A PROCESS AND I'LL EXPLAIN THE PROCESS, BUT I FORWARDED THAT ON TO THE COMPANY AND SAID, HEY, I REALIZED WE HAVEN'T SET UP EXACTLY HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS YET, BUT HERE'S ONE. COULD YOU GUYS GO CHECK IT OUT? SHE CAME BACK TO ME A LITTLE WHILE LATER AND SAID THAT SHE HAD GONE OUT AND MET WITH THIS COUPLE. SHE FOUND OUT THAT NOT ONLY DID THIS LADY HAVE DEMENTIA AND A LOT OF HEALTH NEEDS, BUT HE HAD STAGE FOUR PROSTATE CANCER AS WELL. HE WAS IN HIS 90S. HE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY FAMILY MEMBERS AROUND THAT COULD HELP THEM. THEY WERE ESTRANGED FROM THEIR KIDS. JUST A TOUGH SITUATION. SHE WAS ABLE TO SET THEM UP WITH IN-HOME HEALTH VISITS, HOSPICE, A 24 HOUR HOTLINE THAT THEY COULD CALL MEALS TO BE BROUGHT IN. AND SO WE WERE REALLY EXCITED. THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE. WELL, FAST FORWARD ABOUT TWO WEEKS. WELL, LET ME BACK UP. WE WANTED TO MAKE THIS AS SEAMLESS AS POSSIBLE FOR THE CREWS. AND SO WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO DO IS WORK WITHIN OUR ELECTRONIC PATIENT CARE REPORTING. WE CREATED A LITTLE CHECK BOX THAT WILL POP UP THAT SAYS, DO YOU FILL? THIS PATIENT COULD BENEFIT FROM FURTHER CARE IN HOME HEALTH. IF THE CREWS CHECK YES, THEN IT WILL POP UP. ANOTHER THING THAT SAYS, WHAT KIND OF HELP DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD NEED? I THINK ONE OTHER QUESTION. ANYWAY. EVERY MORNING THE SYSTEM AUTOMATICALLY GENERATES A REPORT WITH ANY OF THOSE CHECKED YESES WITH THEIR NAME THERE. OH, THAT'S WHAT IT POPS UP A SIGNATURE BOX SO THAT THEY AGREE TO RELEASE THAT INFORMATION TO THE HOME HEALTH COMPANY. EVERY MORNING, THE SYSTEM AUTOMATICALLY RUNS A CHECK AND PULLS ANY OF THOSE CHECK BOXES INFORMATION. IT SENDS OUT A LITTLE SPREADSHEET TO ABILITY HOME HEALTH AND THEN THEY FOLLOW UP. WE GOT OUR FIRST REPORT BACK FROM THEM ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO OR ABOUT A WEEK AGO. WE'RE ABOUT TWO WEEKS IN. THEY HAD RECEIVED 14 REFERRALS FROM OUR PARAMEDICS. OF THOSE 14, EIGHT OF THE INDIVIDUALS WERE NOW RECEIVING SOME KIND OF CARE THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE, WHETHER IT WAS HOSPICE, HOME HEALTH, MEALS, THINGS LIKE THAT. SHE HAD TWO MORE THAT WERE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF THE 14 AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY COULD HELP AND WHAT THEY COULD DO. I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO HER SINCE THEN, BUT EVERY MORNING I GET THAT REPORT AS WELL, AND WE'VE BEEN AVERAGING PROBABLY ONE TO 2 TO 3 PER 24 HOUR SHIFT, AND THEY AGREED TO GO OUT AND DO THAT 24 HOUR FREE ASSESSMENT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY MAY GET A CLIENT OUT OF IT DOWN THE ROAD, BUT THEY MAY NOT. AND THEY WERE WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE AND WORK WITH US. 
          THEY'RE THEY'RE PHILOSOPHY MATCHED WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO AND THAT WE JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE HELP TO THESE PEOPLE. AND WHETHER IT WAS THROUGH THEM OR PARTNERS THAT THEY HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY AND OTHER RESOURCES AND HOSPITALS, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO TO DO THAT. 
          SO. I'M REALLY EXCITED. IS IT UNIQUE OR I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYBODY THAT'S DOING IT YET? AND WHEN WE FIRST STARTED IMPLEMENTING IT AND AS AS WE WERE MEETING WITH THE COMPANY, I DID MENTION, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS SMALL FOR NOW IN WEST JORDAN, BUT I COULD SEE THAT IF THIS WORKS AND WE GET ALL THE BUGS WORKED OUT, THEN I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE IT WITH THE METRO PARTNERS AND OTHER AGENCIES IN THE VALLEY. AND I SAID, SO WE DON'T WANT TO OVERWHELM YOU WITH STUFF, BUT POTENTIALLY IT COULD GET THAT WAY. AND THEY SAID WE'D BE HAPPY TO GROW WITH THAT AND WE'LL ADD MORE STAFF IF WE NEED TO. SO FOR NOW, WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT YET. WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE PROCESS WORKED, THAT THE THINGS WERE WORKING OUT, BUT SO FAR, A COUPLE WEEKS IN, IT LOOKS LIKE A AS A PR MOVE FOR THE CITY. IT'S A GOOD THING TO ANNOUNCE SAY, HEY, WE'RE WE'VE INNOVATED IN THIS WAY WITH THE HELP OF THIS PARTNER. 
          I'LL, I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT I JUST HEARD IT THE OTHER DAY. AND KUDOS TO OUR PARAMEDICS WHEN WE PUT THIS OUT TO THEM. WE TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT, YOU KNOW. YEAH, IT MAY REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT EXTRA EFFORT ON YOUR PART, BUT IF YOU TRULY CARE ABOUT THE PATIENTS AND AND YOU WANT TO GET THIS, THIS HELP, THEY CAN DO IT. IN THE PAST WHEN PEOPLE WHEN OUR CREWS HAVE GONE OUT ON JUST A LIFT ASSIST WHERE SOMEBODY'S FALLEN DOWN, THEY'RE NOT INJURED AT ALL. THEY JUST NEED HELP STANDING BACK UP OR INTO THEIR BED. WE'VE JUST DONE A FIRE REPORT AS A PUBLIC ASSIST. WELL, WE COULDN'T FIND A WAY TO GET THE SYSTEM TO PULL THAT IN. 
          SO WE HAD A CREW THAT WENT ON ONE OF THOSE, I THINK JUST OUT OF HABIT. THEY DID A LIFT 
          [01:50:01]
ASSIST TYPE THING, BUT THEY DID LEAVE A PAMPHLET THAT THIS COMPANY HAS GIVEN US SOME PAMPHLETS TO. THE NEXT CREW WENT BACK THE NEXT DAY, SAW THE PAMPHLET FOR THE SAME ISSUE, AND FILLED OUT A MEDICAL REPORT JUST SO THEY COULD CHECK THE BOX TO SAY, THIS PERSON NEEDS HELP, AND THE NEXT DAY IT IT KICKED IT OUT. SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO CAPTURE THOSE. 
          WE'RE TRYING TO EDUCATE OUR PARAMEDICS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHILE A PUBLIC ASSIST IN THE PAST HAS BEEN SUFFICIENT, IF THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET THE HELP THAT THEY NEED, WE DO HAVE TO HAVE YOU FILL OUT A PATIENT CARE REPORT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION OR THE VITALS, BUT THE WAY OUR OUR REPORT GENERATES IT HAS TO BE AN EMS. DEREK, I LOVE ALL OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. SURE. SO HAS LEGAL AND RISK 100%? YES. WE WE WENT THROUGH ALL OF THAT WITH THEM. HAD LEGAL WEIGH IN AS FAR AS HIPAA, AS FAR AS RELEASES OF INFORMATION, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. PURCHASING. JOE HELPED US WITH THE CONTRACT AND SETTING IT UP, MAKING SURE WE WERE PURCHASING GUIDELINES OF THE CITY. YEAH, THEY'VE ALL BEEN INVOLVED. I KNOW SOMETIMES WHEN YOU GO OUT, YOU FEEL THAT SENT TO THE HOME OR AND SOMETIMES THERE ISN'T. SO WHEN YOU GO OUT AND JUST DO AN ASSIST TO LIFT SOMEBODY UP AND THAT'S JUST A WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, CALL ASSIST ASSIST. MY GUESS IS THAT PROBABLY ISN'T A CHARGE. IT IS. BUT IF YOU'RE FILLING OUT A MEDICAL, WE STILL DON'T CHARGE YOU. IF WE SHOW UP TO SOMEONE'S HOME AND WE DON'T TRANSPORT, WE DON'T CHARGE THEM WITH SOME LIMITED EXCEPTIONS. IF IT'S LIKE A DIABETIC AND WE GIVE A LOT OF MEDICATIONS, WE HAVE TO START AN IV, AND THEN WE GET THEIR BLOOD SUGAR BACK UP TO WHERE THEY NEED, AND THEN THEY'RE FINE AND THEY JUST WANT TO SIGN A RELEASE. WE WILL CHARGE FOR THE SUPPLIES, BUT IF WE JUST GO OUT TO SOMEONE'S HOME, WE ASSESS THEM. WE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? YEAH, YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR DOCTOR OR YOUR PERSONAL DOCTOR OR GO TO THE INSTACARE. 
          WHATEVER. THEY SIGN A RELEASE, THEY DON'T GO, THANK YOU. LOOKING OUT FOR OUR RESIDENTS? YEAH. NO, CHIEF IS AWESOME. I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE AMOUNT OF CARE THAT YOU PUT INTO. WELL THANK YOU. I'M EXCITED. ARE YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT? AND WE, BECAUSE WE REPRESENT THE CITY AND WE KNOW WEST JORDAN IS RIGHT, BUT SOMETIMES WE ALSO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE EVEN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DOESN'T UNDERSTAND. AND SO SO I THINK WHAT YOU'VE HEARD A LITTLE BIT IS WE REALLY YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PROGRAM, BUT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO BE ABLE TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE'RE DOING IT. AND INSTEAD OF HEARING THAT, ANOTHER CITY ANNOUNCED, I'M WITH YOU ON THAT 100%. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'VE WORKED OUT THE BUGS AND THAT IT REALLY IS WORKING. BUT SO FAR I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC. AND ONE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT IT IS, ARE THERE OTHER COMPANIES THAT COMPETE WITH THIS COMPANY THAT WE'RE PICKING A FAVORITE? SO SO THAT WAS WHAT WE STARTED WITH. YEAH. AND AND INITIALLY WHEN WE WERE MEETING I DID EXPLAIN WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH A WHOLE BUNCH OF RESTORATION COMPANIES IN THE VALLEY TO DO BOARD UPS ON FIRES. AND IT'S KIND OF THE SAME TYPE OF THING WHERE THEY ALL WANT TO BE PART OF THAT. 
          AND SO WE HAVE A ROTATION WITH BECK SO THAT THEY ALL GET THAT. YEAH, YEAH. INITIALLY WHEN I MET WITH THE CITY, I MENTIONED THAT WITH OUR PROCUREMENT PROCUREMENT CODE, WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO DO ALL THAT. AND WOULD THEY BE OKAY BEING IN A ROTATION IF THAT'S WHAT IT ENDED UP HAPPENING? THEY HADN'T HEARD OF ANY COMPANY BEING WILLING TO GO OUT LIKE THEY WOULD JUST FOR FREE. BUT YEAH, WE WERE LIKE, WE PROBABLY STILL HAVE TO ADVERTISE IT AND SEE IF ANYBODY WANTS TO. THEY WERE WILLING. LATER, WHEN THE PROCUREMENT CODE CHANGED, JOE NOTIFIED US THAT WITH IT BEING IN PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AND THERE NOT BEING ANY MONEY EXCHANGED, WE COULD ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THEM AND USE THEIR SERVICES. SO IT ACTUALLY MADE IT MUCH EASIER FOR US TO DO THAT. I ANTICIPATE IF IT'S SUCCESSFUL, THAT OTHER COMPANIES WILL MAYBE TRY TO JUMP ON BOARD, AND WE MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE WE BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM IT. THEY'RE OFFERING TO COME OUT AND PROVIDE A FREE SERVICE WITH THE HOPE THAT MAYBE THEY WILL. JUST LIKE THE RESTORATION COMPANIES, THEY COME OUT AND DO THE BOARD UP WITH THE HOPE THAT THEY CAN DO THE RESTORATION OF THE HOUSE AS WELL. BUT YEAH, I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THIS THIS AGREEMENT SHOULD NOT BE EXCLUSIVE. YEAH. OFF THE BAT, IT SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD IT SHOULD BE ENTERED INTO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING OF AS OTHER PLAYERS ENTER THE MARKET WILL EVALUATE. YEAH. AND WE WE MADE OUR CONTRACT JUST FOR A YEAR INITIALLY JUST SO THAT WE'RE NOT TIED INTO ANYTHING. IF IT'S NOT WORKING OUT WE CAN BACK OUT. BUT THEY'RE THEY'RE REALLY COMMITTED TO SEEING IT WORK. 
          THEY'VE BEEN GREAT PARTNERS SO FAR AND WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT IT'LL BE SUCCESS. ALL RIGHT. I WAS GOING TO SAY IS THIS MATURES. WE'RE COMING UP HERE IN ABOUT FOUR MONTHS WITH A 
          [01:55:08]
BUNCH WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE UP ON THE HILL THAT SHARING THAT WITH THEM. I'M I'M LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE, BUT I'M WONDERING IF THE LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T EVEN BASED ON A SUCCESS MODEL THAT WE'VE DONE, WOULD EVEN ENTERTAIN SOME SORT OF STATEWIDE PROGRAM WITH THAT AND FUNNEL SOME MEDICAID MONEY, BECAUSE MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE ASSISTING ARE PROBABLY ELDERLY. YEAH. FINAL, FINAL, FINAL, SOME MEDICAID MONEY TO ENCOURAGE SOME OF THESE OTHER HOME HEALTH AGENCIES TO ENTER INTO THOSE PARTNERSHIPS WITH OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENTS. 
          POSSIBLE. I LIKE I SAID, I'M OPTIMISTIC. I HOPE THAT IT DOES THAT BECAUSE THROUGHOUT MY WHOLE CAREER, I'VE SEEN I CAN THINK OF SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS THAT I RESPONDED TO OVER AND OVER AND OVER, AND IT WAS FRUSTRATING TO ME, FRUSTRATING TO THEM, BUT WE JUST WEREN'T CONNECTING THEM WITH WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SERVICES THEY NEEDED. SO HAVE WE HAD ANY THAT WE'VE HOOKED UP WITH THESE SERVICES AND THEN THEY STILL CALL US? OR HAVE THEY HAVE THE CALLS STOPPED? YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AS, AS POSSIBLY A BENEFIT FOR US IS THAT AS WE CONNECT THESE PEOPLE WITH THE SERVICES THEY NEED, IT KIND OF REDUCES THE LOAD ON US JUST GOING AND PICKING THEM UP OFF THE FLOOR AND STUFF. THAT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO MEASURE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD HAVE FALLEN, WHO WOULD HAVE FALLEN OR WHO, YOU KNOW. BUT WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT WE ARE TRACKING THAT KIND OF STUFF. WE'RE GOING TO TRY AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO SEE JUST OUR CALL VOLUME ON LIKE, FALLS. AND WE COULD HAVE THAT COMPANY LET US KNOW. YEAH. AND THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO KEEP A LOT OF RECORDS AND THEY'RE WILLING TO IF WE CAN SEE THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAG THE CALL THAT IT WAS A REFERRAL. 
          AND THEN HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO YOU GET CALLED OUT TO THAT SAME ADDRESS? WE COULD DO THAT. AND JUST AS YOU CONVEYED DURING YOUR TIME WHEN YOU WERE GOING OUT, YOU KNEW, HEY, WE'RE WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM MR. SMITH FOR A WHILE, SO I BET WE'LL BE GETTING THAT CALL SOON. SO I'M SURE THAT YOUR PERSONNEL. YEAH, WELL, IT WAS INTERESTING, AS WE, AS WE KIND OF ROLLED IT OUT IN EACH GROUP, THERE WERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE THAT, AS WE WERE DISCUSSING IT, SAID, I ALREADY KNOW SOMEONE THAT WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS. I ALREADY KNOW, WE ALREADY KNOW. THE NEXT TIME WE GET CALLED AT THIS HOUSE, THIS WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WILL HELP THEM. SO YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. THE CREWS ARE AWARE OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT, BUT OFTENTIMES THEY SHOW UP AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME ANY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE HAD ANY INTERACTION WITH THEM AND THEY'RE ABLE TO I DON'T I DON'T THINK OUR SOCIETY KNOWS WHAT HOSPICE AND WHAT THOSE SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE. NEITHER DID I UNTIL I HAD TO HELP MY SISTER. YEAH, WE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS. 
          YOU'VE GOT A TERMINAL DIAGNOSIS. YOU GOT A COUPLE WEEKS TO LIVE. THEY'RE GOING TO PUT YOU ON A MORPHINE DRIP. AND OH TWO SHE SAID, OH, NO, IT'S WAY MORE THAN THAT. WE'LL COME IN AND PROVIDE SHOWERS FOR THEM. WE'LL IT CAN LAST UP TO FIVE YEARS, YOU KNOW. SO THAT WAS TOTALLY NEWS TO US. SO AND ME TOO. AND I WAS A NURSING OKAY. SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHY, I DIDN'T KNOW IT BUT SO. AND THAT'S GREAT. RUSTY SCALPELS. NO, THAT WAS WHEN WE ACTUALLY USED A PEN TO CHART. AND IT HAD TO BE BUI. I THINK THIS IS GREAT, CHIEF. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. YEAH, THIS IS GREAT. THANK YOU FOR SHARING IT. YEAH. AND NOW YOU'LL BE HAPPY TO KNOW THAT. I CAN SMELL IT. AND I'M, LIKE, LIVING ABOVE A DOLLAR BECAUSE IT WAS A DOMINO'S GUY. WELL, YOU CAN SMELL IT. AND I WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE TO CONTINUE THE FIRST DISCUSSION LONGER ON TRAFFIC, BUT I FELT LIKE WE HAD A LOT OF THINGS. WE NEEDED MORE FROM THEM. I AGREE, I WANTED TO COMPARE, YEAH, WE HAVE TO MOVE THE MEETING ALONG AND MEETING MANAGEMENT'S IMPORTANT, SO I WOULD, BUT I SEEM TO BE MOVING THEM ALONG A LITTLE TOO QUICKLY. IS IS KIND OF HAVING ARBITRARY TIME LIMITS FOR DISCUSSIONS MAY NOT, YOU KNOW, PUT THE LESS IMPORTANT THINGS AT THE BOTTOM THAT CAN DROP OFF IF THE OTHER CONVERSATIONS GO ALONG. THAT'S WHAT WE DID. YEAH. SO THIS MEETING DON'T ARBITRARILY STOP THE OTHER CONVERSATION SO THAT YOU CAN GET TO THE LESS IMPORTANT LET IT PLAY OUT. I AGREE, EXCEPT THAT I FELT LIKE WE HAD HEARD ALL WE NEEDED, AND THAT WE NEEDED MORE INFORMATION THAN WHAT THEY HAD FOR US, I FELT LIKE, OKAY, THAT'S JUST ME. 
          WELL, I'M CALLING WORK. MEETING ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.