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48. I HAVE SOME INTEL. I THOUGHT I GOT HERE EARLY THEN. GOOD AFTERNOON. I WOULD LIKE TO
[CALL TO ORDER]
CALL THE WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE TO ORDER. COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB AND COUNCIL MEMBER SHELDON ARE STUCK IN TRAFFIC WITH SOME ISSUES OUT ON OUR ROADS. THE REST OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT, AS WELL AS MANY GUESTS AND STAFF AND THE MAYOR. OUR[a. Discussion of Regulations on Retail Sales of Pets by Commercial Breeders]
FIRST ITEM OF DISCUSSION THIS EVENING IS A DISCUSSION OF REGULATIONS ON RETAIL SALES OF PETS BY COMMERCIAL BREEDERS. THIS IS BROUGHT TO US BY COUNCIL MEMBER, BLUM AND COUNCIL MEMBER VICTORIA, WHO'S STARTING. I JUST WANT TO FRAME THAT THIS IS FOR THE WELFARE OF ANIMALS AND PROTECT CONSUMERS. AND THE CITY ALREADY REGULATES HOW AND WHAT BUSINESSES CAN SELL IN OTHER AREAS LIKE FOOD SAFETY, ZONING, SIGNAGE, ENVIRONMENTAL DISCHARGE, ETC.THIS FOLLOWS THAT SAME PRINCIPLE REGULATING SOURCE TRANSPARENCY FOR THE WELFARE OF ANIMALS AND THE PROTECTION OF CONSUMERS. SO WHAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS IS TURNING THIS INTO AN ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURE IN WHICH WE CAN HAVE THOSE SAFEGUARDS AND PROTECTIONS FROM AND WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT TARGETING ANY BUSINESS THIS CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY DO THIS. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UPHELD LOCAL ORDINANCES TO PROTECT. AND I THINK ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS WE WANT TO DO IN THIS A LITTLE BIT, WE TRIED TO MEET ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO OR SO, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME AT THE END. SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET THIS NOW IN THE RUSH. IT WAS KIND OF DECIDED WE DIDN'T WANT TO JUST JUMP IN AND DO THINGS. SO A NO VOTE CAME, BUT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS JUST SEE WHAT WE AS A COUNCIL CAN DO TO HELP THIS AND WHAT WE CAN COME UP WITH. I KNOW IN SPEAKING TO SOME OF YOU, LIKE COUNCILMEMBER SHELTON, WHO ISN'T HERE RIGHT NOW, ONE OF HIS WORRIES IS THAT IF WE SET A STRINGENT LAW THAT ONLY SETS UP ONE STORE TO BE THE MONOPOLY IN WEST JORDAN OF BEING ABLE TO SELL COMMERCIALLY, AND NO OTHER STORE WILL EVEN HAVE A CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING GOOD OR BAD. AND SO THAT THAT'S A CONCERN WE HAVE. SO THIS IS A DISCUSSION PERIOD, TO SEE WHERE WE AS A COUNCIL THINK SOME ELEMENTS CAN GO, HOW WE THINK WE CAN IMPROVE OUR SITUATION AND, AND THEN PUT SOME CODE TO THAT. AND SALT LAKE CITY AND SANDY DO HAVE CODES IN THEIR CITIES TO KIND OF BRING IN THE LOOPHOLE FOR WHAT IS ALREADY ON THE LAW STATEWIDE. AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT TO AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT WHAT THEY HAVE IN EITHER, YOU KNOW, MODIFYING IT TO WHAT WORKS BETTER FOR WEST JORDAN.
BUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S THERE'S OTHER CITIES OUT THERE THAT ARE ALREADY DOING THIS. SO WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME TEMPERATURE FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS. I'LL START. SO THE REASON WE'RE DOING THIS AND THIS ISN'T ON ANY OF US HERE WHEN WE'RE DOING THIS, IS BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME LOUD VOICES OF, WE DON'T WANT PET STORES IN WEST JORDAN, AND WE'RE MAD THAT YOU LET ONE IN TO BEGIN WITH. RIGHT? THAT'S THE WAY I FEEL, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD THIS FOR 6 TO 8 YEARS NOW ABOUT WHY DO WE ALLOW PET STORE IN WEST JORDAN? SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS BY DOING THIS, WE'RE LOOKING TO STOP ANY MORE PET STORES COMING IN. CORRECT? NO, WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO WE WANT TO FILL THE GAP BETWEEN BREEDER LICENSING AND AND THE CONSUMER PROTECTION OF THE PUPPY MILLS. IT'S A PUPPY MILLS. THAT IS THE ISSUE. IT'S NOT A PET STORE. I GET THAT, BUT THIS IS BUILT ON ONE PET STORE IN WEST JORDAN. THAT'S WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM. IT STARTED FROM THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT TARGETING THEM. WE CAN'T TARGET THEM, RIGHT? NO, WE DON'T WANT TO TARGET THEM. WE'RE NOT TARGETING THE PET STORE. WE'RE TARGETING FUTURE PET STORES. NOT NECESSARILY FUTURE PET STORES. YOU KNOW, NATIONAL CHAINS LIKE PETS, PETCO AND PETSMART. THEY THRIVE ON ADOPTION ONLY, RIGHT? YEAH, BUT TO FOLLOW THAT UP, IF IF PETCO AND QUOTE UNQUOTE, ALL THE OTHER LEGITIMATE PET STORES DO AN ADOPTION, THEY'RE STILL USING PUPPY MILL PUPPIES TO SELL THEM. NO, I MEAN, THAT'S AN AFTER THE FACT RESCUE, THOUGH. IT'S NOT LIKE A NONPROFIT FOLLOW THE ORDINANCE STOPS THAT SUPPLY CHAIN FROM FINANCING THE MILLS, NOT THE SECONDARY RESCUE. THAT WE HAVE ON ANY GIVEN SATURDAY. ANIMALS FOR SALE IN THE SAM'S PARKING LOT OR THE YOU NAME IT. YEAH.
AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING THERE. AND WE HAD A LADY COME SHARE HER. I THOUGHT IT WAS IRONIC THAT SHE CAME AND SHARED AN OPPOSITE. YEAH. AND OPPOSITE FEELING THAT THAT
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HAVING A TRAUMATIC SITUATION IN HER LIFE AND THEN BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE A HAIRLESS CAT FROM A BREEDER SAVED HER LIFE. HER PURPOSE TO CONSUMER SALES WOULD STILL REMAIN IF THIS REGULATION WOULD ONLY AFFECT THE RESALE AND STORES, NOT THE PRIVATE BREEDER TRANSACTIONS. WHAT'S THE WHAT PROBLEM DOES THIS SOLVE? AND THEY'RE STILL BREEDERS. THEY'RE STILL HOME BREEDERS. THEY'RE STILL YOU HAVEN'T BEEN INVITED TO THE TABLE UNLESS YOU'RE INVITED TO THE TABLE. WE CAN'T HAVE YOU. I'M SO SORRY. THE WHAT DIFFERENCE? I MEAN, I'M I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO. I'M GOING TO ACTUALLY TAKE A STEP BACK OF WHERE I STAND ON IT. RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS CAN OPERATE IN WEST JORDAN CITY. HOME BUSINESS SALES. HOME BUSINESSES CAN OPERATE IN WEST JORDAN CITY UNLESS IT IS. SOMEHOW PROHIBITED BY STATE STATUTE OR OVERLY REGULATED BY STATE STATUTE. I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO REGULATE A BUSINESS ANYMORE, BUT THIS ISN'T OKAY. FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THIS ISN'T TELLING A BAKERY THAT CAN'T SELL CAKES. IT'S REQUIRING THAT THE INGREDIENTS ARE SAFE AND ETHICALLY SOURCED. OKAY, BUT SO IF WE DO THAT WITH THE DOGS, YEAH. THEN THE NEXT THING WE'RE GOING TO TARGET IS PANADERIA ALICE'S PANADERIA DOWN THERE BECAUSE WE SAY, OH, WE DON'T LIKE WHERE YOU'RE BUYING YOUR WE DON'T LIKE WHERE YOU'RE WHERE YOU'RE SOURCING YOUR FLOUR. AND WE GO TO THE PIZZA HUT NEXT DOOR AND SAY, WE DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BUYING ETHICALLY, ETHICALLY HARVESTED PEPPERONI. AND WE DON'T LIKE, WE DON'T LIKE, WE DON'T LIKE MCDONALD'S BECAUSE THEY'RE USING BEEF TALLOW TO FRY THE FRIES IN OR WHATEVER THE HECK IT MAY BE. THIS IS THE SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT'S REGULATING BUSINESSES THAT ARE OPERATING LEGALLY, BUT MUNICIPALITIES HAVE REGULATED HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF RESIDENTS, AND COURTS HAVE REPEATEDLY UPHELD THE LOCAL ORDINANCES ACROSS THE US ON THOSE GROUNDS. THEY'RE NOT RESTRICTING THE COMMERCE. THEY'RE STILL THEY CAN STILL SELL. THEY CAN STILL HOST ADOPTIONS. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT THE IF IT'S IF THIS IS THAT BAD, WHY AREN'T THEY NOT SELLING? BECAUSE THE CONSUMER OUTCRY SHOULD AND CAPITALISM SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM. JUST LIKE CIGARETTES AND ALCOHOL. I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO BUY THEM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, EVEN UNDER AGE. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HAVE ANOTHER AVENUE OF PROTECTING SOME OF THESE ANIMALS ARE COMING FROM IN OUR CITY. YEAH. YOU'RE YOU'RE YOU'RE YOU'RE WE'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE BUSINESS THAT, I MEAN, IT WASN'T TOO LONG AGO ON THIS COUNCIL. I SAT HERE AND WE TOOK OFF THE PROHIBITION OF HAVING TATTOO PARLORS IN THIS CITY BECAUSE SOMEBODY DECADES AGO HAD SAID, WE WANT THOSE PEOPLE. WE DON'T WANT TO ATTRACT, THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT. WE DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF BUSINESSES, OUR CITY. ALL WE'RE DOING THAT AND SAYING, WE DON'T WANT THIS KIND OF BUSINESS IN OUR CITY. THIS INTENT IS TO LIMIT COMMERCE SO THAT WE HAVE THE TRANSPARENCY AND PROTECTION FOR BOTH THE CONSUMERS AND THE ANIMALS, CONSISTENT WITH EXISTING MUNICIPAL AUTHORITY AT THE STORE THAT IS AVAILABLE WHERE THEY DO SELL ANIMALS. CAN YOU NOT GET THAT INFORMATION FROM THEM? NO. WE OURS WHEN WE WHEN MY DAUGHTER WAS CONNED AND HER ANIMAL AND HER TOY CHIHUAHUA THAT IS NOW ALMOST 7 POUNDS, WE DID NOT GET THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION OF WHERE SHE CAME FROM. ARE YOU? YOU BOUGHT A YOU BOUGHT A DOG FROM THAT STORE. I DIDN'T, MY DAUGHTER DID. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REGULAR. HOW MANY DOGS DOES THAT STORE SELL A YEAR? FIVE A MONTH. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REGULATING. PROBABLY MORE THAN FIVE. YEAH. AND ONE THING. LET ME LET ME ASK YOU THIS, KELVIN, WHY DO WE HAVE HEALTH CODE CHECK OUT? YOU MENTIONED A BUNCH OF RESTAURANTS AND THE UNETHICAL PEPPERONI. AND THIS. WHY DO WE HAVE HEALTH CODE? GO CHECK OUT WHY THE HEALTH CODE DOESN'T CHECK. JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION. WHY? TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE PERSON WHO EATS THE FOOD. OKAY, SO WHY AREN'T WE IN ANIMALS? WHY ARE WE MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S HEALTH THERE? THAT THE THAT ARE BEING. I THINK YOU'RE COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES. DO YOU THINK THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT WINNING THE ARGUMENT? NO. YEAH, I THINK THAT. WHY WHY WOULDN'T WE MAKE SURE WHAT SOMEONE'S SELLING? IF THEY'RE SAYING THAT IT'S PUREBRED, IT'S THIS OR THAT IT'S HEALTHY. IT'S THAT. THAT IT'S ALL THAT. IT'S ALL THERE.[00:10:03]
THAT'S A DIFFERENT ARGUMENT THAN THE PUPPY MILL. WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. IF IT'S IF THEY'RE SAYING THAT THE DOG IS A PUREBRED AND IT'S NOT, THAT'S CONSUMER FRAUD. THAT'S DIFFERENT. WELL, THEN WHAT THE REASON BEHIND THE REASON BEHIND THIS CONVERSATION, THE REASON BEHIND THIS CONVERSATION, WAS TO SEE WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT. YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT NOT LETTING ANY PET SELLS. BUT WHAT IF WE'RE HERE LOOKING AT FRAUD AND WHERE THESE ANIMALS COMING FROM? DOESN'T THE CURRENT CONSUMER FRAUD STATUTE OF THE STATE PROTECT THAT? NO, IT WHY NOT? THAT'S WHERE THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES ARE DOING THESE ORDINANCES TO FILL IN THAT GAP TO PROTECT. SO WE HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION AND THE PAPERWORK.I WOULD DISAGREE BECAUSE MUNICIPALITIES CAN'T FILL IN HOLES WITH THE UTAH CODE AND CRIMINAL FRAUD. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. THE STATE HAS HAS SOMETHING ON THERE, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PROTECT THE WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE COMING FROM. AND IF IT'S NOT WHAT WHAT STATUTE ISN'T ENOUGH IN THE CRIMINAL CODE, WE GOT TO BE TALKING TITLE 76. I HAVE IT WRITTEN DOWN IN HERE. ONE, I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE CRIMINAL CODE WITH CRIMINAL FRAUD AND THE INTENT TO DECEIVE IS AND AND IF AND IF SOMETHING PANS OUT THAT IT'S NOT TRUE, THERE'S ALWAYS THE CIVIL REMEDY. WHILE THERE'S A PAUSE. COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB JOINED US UP 406.
HI, ZACH. I DIDN'T REALIZE ALL THE POLICE OFFICERS IN THE STATE WERE IN OUR COMMUNITY ROOM, APPARENTLY. SO WHEN I SEE WHY THE TRAFFIC WAS BACKED UP FOR THAT ACCIDENT OVER ON 78, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, POLICE OFFICERS WERE HERE, APPARENTLY. SO THE HIGHWAY PATROL, THERE ARE A LOT OF HIGHWAY. THERE ARE A LOT OF OUR GUYS ARE THERE. YEAH, I SAW HIGHWAY PATROL. I THOUGHT WE'RE EITHER GOING TO BE REALLY SAFE OR SOMETHING BAD'S GOING ON IN THERE, BUT IS THAT IS THAT AN AVENUE YOU'RE WILLING FOR US TO LOOK INTO? NO, BECAUSE I THINK STATE PREEMPTS CRIMINAL CHARGES THERE, SO I DON'T EVEN NEED TO LOOK INTO IT THEN, BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING. THAT'S I'M JUST ASKING YOU A QUESTION. THE STATE LICENSING APPLIES TO THE BREEDERS AND NOT THE RESELLERS. AND THAT'S WHERE THE GAP IS. OKAY. BUT IF IF THE IF THE IF THE IF THE BREEDER IS LICENSED. THEN THEN THEN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTACK NOW IS A LICENSE. HOW MANY LICENSED BREEDERS SELL TO THE PUPPY MILL. THEY'RE ALL IF THEY'RE ALL LICENSED THEN THEY COMPLY WITH STATE STATUTE. NO. OKAY. YEAH. 412 AND COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON HAS JOINED US. I CAN SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING, BOB, BUT I, I JUST I JUST DON'T SEE WHY WE WANT TO GET IN THE BUSINESS OF REGULATING BECAUSE. BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS REGULATING THE SOURCE OF A GOOD THAT'S BEING SOLD OUT OF A STORE. CORRECT? YEAH. JUST LIKE WITH THE HEALTH CODE. NO, THE HEALTH CODE DOESN'T THE HEALTH CODE DOES NOT LOOK AT THE SOURCE OF THE FOOD THAT THEY SELL. THEY LOOK ON HOW IT'S SOLD OR HOW IT'S PREPARED. THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT THE HEALTH, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DOESN'T GO LOOK TO SEE. OH, I BOUGHT THE I BOUGHT THE PEPPERONI AT THE PIZZA FROM AN ETHICAL PIG BREEDER OR NOT.
THEY THEY KNOW IT'S COMING FROM A BAD ONE. BUT WHAT'S A BAD ONE IF AS LONG AS THE AS LONG AS THE PRODUCT MEETS THE USDA REQUIREMENT OR THE THE FDA REQUIREMENT AND IT SOLD, BOUGHT AND SOLD, IT'S LEGIT. AND WHAT IF THE DOGS AREN'T MEETING THE EQUIVALENT OF THE USDA? I WOULD ARGUE THAT'S UP TO THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, BECAUSE SOMEBODY SELL AN UNLICENSED BREEDER IS SELLING THE DOG. AND IF THE IF THE BREEDER IS SUPPOSED TO BE LICENSED. THEN THAT'S, THAT'S THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE THAT ENFORCES BECAUSE IT WAS IN 53. SOUNDS LIKE THE LICENSING OF BREEDERS THAT FALLS IN THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S THE AGRICULTURAL CODE. SEEMS TO ME THAT THEN IF IF THE STORE IS BUYING SOMETHING FROM AN UNLICENSED BREEDER, THEN THAT'S ON THE BREEDER. AND THE US DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
THAT'S NOT THAT ENFORCES THAT. I HAVE A QUESTION LIKE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT IS UNDER THE COUNTY. SO THAT AGAIN GOES TO READERS AND NOT THE RESELLERS. DO THEY DO THEY DO THEY REGULATE BREEDERS? DOES THAT MEAN IF WE'RE COMPARING PIZZA SHOPS TO PUPPY STORES? TO ME, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, WHEN I'M AT WORK, I HAVE TO HAVE MY LICENSE TO SERVE FOOD, AND THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT COMES IN AND REGULATES WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO DO THEY. IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A
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COUNTY LEVEL. THAT SHOULD BE IF IT'S A HEALTH ISSUE THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, THAT'S THE COUNTY LEVEL THAT WE NEED TO HAVE ENSURE THAT THEY'RE DOING WHATEVER THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH BREEDERS. THAT'S NOT SO. CONSUMER TRUST AND ANIMAL WELFARE ARE PUBLIC INTEREST, AND IT'S NOT HAPPENING IN THE MUNICIPALITY LEVELS BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST FOCUSED ON THE BREEDERS AND NOT THE RESELLERS. SO MUCH LIKE TRUTH IN LABELING LAWS, WITHOUT THIS OVERSIGHT, THE MARKET'S NOT GOING TO SELF-CORRECT BECAUSE THE SOURCING IS IS NOT REGULATED MUNICIPALITY WISE. SO PLACES THAT USE THESE PUPPY MILLS ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE AND HAVE A CONVERSATION OF WHAT CAN WE DO. MAYBE IT'S IN THE BUSINESS LICENSING WHERE THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE, LEGALITY WISE, THEY HAVE THE APPROPRIATE PAPERWORK WITH A TRAIL OF WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE COMING FROM. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THAT IS NOT HAPPENING. WE DID ASK FOR THAT FROM THE MASSAGE PARLORS. YEAH. AND YOU WERE OKAY WITH THAT? WOULD WE BE OKAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS A GOOD PAPER TRAIL FOR THE GOODS SOLD? IF THE RETAIL STORE BUYS A PUPPY FROM A LICENSED RESELLER, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? IS THAT ALL WE'RE ASKING? ARE WE ASKING TO PUT IN SOME REGULATION THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE, THAT THEY HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY BOUGHT IT FROM A LICENSED FOR WHAT WE'RE ASKING, IS THERE A CERTIFICATE OF SOURCE NEEDS TO BE REQUIRED? AND A IT WAS REALLY THE MAIN ONE CERTIFICATE SOURCE REQUIRED. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE THAT CERTIFICATE OF SOURCE, THAT GOES A LONG WAY IN UNDERSTANDING WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE COMING FROM AND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM. THE PUPPY MILLS WHICH ARE NOT REGULATED, THAT HELPS PROHIBIT WHERE THESE ANIMALS COMING FROM, THESE POOR SITUATIONS. SO IT WOULD JUST BE A. A STEP ON THE BUSINESS LICENSE, WHERE THEY'RE WHERE THEY WOULD AGREE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THIS DOCUMENTATION CORRECT. AND THE CONSEQUENCE IF THEY DIDN'T WOULD BE WHAT? THAT'S THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WANT FOR THOSE CONSEQUENCES. DO WE WANT, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE SOME I HAVE SOME, HERE IN SANDY, LIKE HOW WE DON'T REALLY LIKE SANDY, SO WE DON'T LIKE LADY'S GOT IT. SO NOT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE. SO COMING BACK TO MY FIRST QUESTION IS ARE WE TRYING TO STOP OTHER PUPPY STORES FROM COMING IN. NO. THEY CAN STILL, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WAS THE GOAL OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN HEARING FOR MONTHS AND YEARS. OKAY. IT WAS THEY SAY, WELL, IN OTHER CITIES, I THINK DRAPER IS AN EXAMPLE. YOU CANNOT HAVE A PUPPY STORE AT ALL IN DRAPER. IS THAT WHERE WE WANT TO GO? THAT'S WHAT I'M QUESTIONING. NO, I DON'T WANT TO LIMIT BUSINESSES. I YOU KNOW, I WAS EVEN I WROTE DOWN SOME IDEAS OF LIKE, EVEN A TRANSPARENCY CAMPAIGN, A HUMAN SOURCE, A HUMANE SOURCE, CERTIFIED CITY ISSUE DECAL PROGRAM, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGING VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE, YOU KNOW, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR, YOU KNOW, COORDINATE WITH SALT LAKE CITY FOR SHARED INSPECTION DATABASES OR EVEN AN EDUCATION COMPONENT, LIKE COLLABORATING WITH LOCAL RESCUES AND VETERINARIANS, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT SO SO YOU WANT SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE GOT THE ONE PUPPY STORE THAT'S THE ISSUE. YEAH. WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE THEM GIVE US SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT OR SOURCE THAT SAYS, THIS IS WHERE I GOT THE MONEY FROM. THAT. AND I THINK ANY MEDICAL HISTORY THAT'S BEEN MEDICAL HISTORY, NO MEDICAL HISTORY. IT'S A PUPPY. I MEAN, IT'S, WHAT, TWO MONTHS OLD? SO WHAT CAN A MEDICAL HISTORY ARE WE GOING TO HAVE. BUT SOMETIMES THEY THEY I'VE, I'VE BEEN IN THE STORE AND SEEN THEM GO, AND HERE'S TO SHOW YOU ALL THE OKAY. AND LIKE SHOTS AT LEAST. YEAH.SO WE WANT TO KNOW BECAUSE THEN IF IT COMES OUT THAT THIS DOG HAD SOME PROBLEMS AND WE SEE A THING THAT YOU HAD A VET CHECK IT OUT TWO WEEKS AGO, IT WOULD HAVE OBVIOUSLY SHOWED UP ON THIS. THEN THERE IS SOMEONE THAT PEOPLE CAN GO BACK TO RIGHT NOW. THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OTHER THAN ANIMALS OR ANIMALS. THEY DIE SOMETIMES. AND I THINK IF A BUSINESS, I THINK A BUSINESS SHOULD WANT THIS PERSONALLY, BECAUSE I THINK REWARDING THAT TRANSPARENCY WILL SHOW THEY HAVE A HUMANE PARTNERSHIP WITH REPUTABLE BREEDERS RATHER THAN PUPPY MILLS. AND I THINK THAT AS A CITY THAT SHOWS YOU YOU JUST MADE A SUBJECTIVE JUDGMENT THAT REPUTABLE BREEDER VERSUS UNREPUTABLE BREEDER, IF THE BREEDER IS LICENSED, AND THIS IS WHERE THE USDA, THEY DEAL WITH THOSE BREEDERS AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKING SURE THAT THE RETAILERS ARE TAKING FROM THOSE
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REPUTABLE. THE ONLY THING THAT WE CAN REQUIRE. WOULD BE TO SAY, ASSUMING WE DECIDE TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD, WE WANT EVIDENCE THAT THE PUPPY YOU BOUGHT WAS FROM A LICENSED BREEDER. WHAT DOES WHAT DOES THAT GET US FROM? I THINK ABOUT, AND I HATE TO PUT AN ANIMAL WITH A CAR, BUT WHEN I BUY A CAR, I DON'T JUST GO BUY A CAR BECAUSE IF I'M BUYING THIS, ESPECIALLY LIKE, ESPECIALLY A USED CAR, I WANT I WANT THE I WANT THE, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM, WHAT IT'S BEEN THROUGH, WHAT IT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED TO IT. WHAT DO I KNOW? I WANT TO TAKE IT SOMEWHERE SO I CAN MAKE SURE IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY. I DON'T JUST BUY A CAR. I DO MY RESEARCH INTO THE CAR. THESE PEOPLE, HOPEFULLY, IF THEY'RE GOING TO BUY AN ANIMAL AND SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON AN ANIMAL, WE'LL SEE. WHERE DID THIS COME FROM? THIS. LET ME GO LOOK UP THAT FARM. YOU KNOW THIS WHERE THIS DOG CAME FROM. LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN FIND OUT ABOUT THEM. ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE'S TONS OF PEOPLE THAT WALK DOWN TO A FORD DEALERSHIP AND SAY, GIVE ME THAT TRUCK. SO WHY SHOULD WE ONLY WHY SHOULD WE NOT DO ANYTHING FOR THE FOR THE PERSON? BECAUSE THERE'S NO FRAUD INVOLVED. WHAT? YOU'RE WHAT YOU'RE ARGUING IS THAT SOMEWHERE INHERENTLY THERE, HERE THERE IS SOME FRAUD INVOLVED. AND IT'S OUR OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER FROM THAT. AND I, WE REGULATE RETAIL ACTIVITY AND WE CAN IMPOSE THE SOURCING REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE'RE NOT STEPPING ON ANYTHING ELSE. WE DON'T IMPOSE SOURCING REQUIREMENTS ON ANY OTHER BUSINESS IN THIS CITY. I JUST SAID WE DID THAT ON MASSAGES. WE ASKED THEM TO KNOW WHERE THEY GOT THEIR, THAT THEY'RE LICENSED PEOPLE, THAT THE LICENSE THAT'S NOT A SOURCE. THAT'S A LICENSE. YEAH. BUT IF, IF, IF, IF THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT GOES IN AND INSPECTS PIZZA HUT, THEY DON'T SAY, THEY SAY, WHERE DID YOU BUY YOUR PEPPERONI? AND THEY'LL SAY, I GOT IT FROM SYSCO. THEY DON'T THEY DON'T GO CHECK CISCO'S LICENSE. THEY THEY MIGHT CHECK IF THERE WAS AN OUTBREAK OF SOMETHING INVOLVING A LOT OF PEPPERONI, THEY MIGHT TRACK IT DOWN WHERE IT CAME FROM. WELL, NOW THERE'S NO WAY TO CHECK IF THEY DID SAY SYSCO. BUT IF THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, JOE'S MEATS ON THE TRAILER BEHIND THE WAREHOUSE OVER ON 21ST, THAT'S WHAT A CERTIFICATE OF SOURCE IS.THAT'S DIFFERENT. SO. SO HOW'S THE HOW'S THE CERTIFICATE OF SOURCE STOPPING? AT THE END OF THE DAY, BREEDERS STILL HAVE VIABLE CUSTOMER PATHS. THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE THERE. BUT THIS IS GIVING THE CONSUMERS THE TRANSPARENCY OF WHERE THESE ANIMALS ARE COMING FROM. THAT'S THAT'S REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY. WHAT WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS. I'D LIKE TO KNOW FROM A BUSINESS AND WHAT HOW THAT WOULD LOOK. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE GUY IF THE GUY, THE MAYOR'S THE GUY. BUT ONE OF YOU GUYS I WANT TO HEAR FROM ONE OF YOU. COME ON, GUYS, APPARENTLY THERE'S A GUY. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IT DOES. CONTROL VOICE ON THIS. SO I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IF. IF WE ADDED THAT THEY HAD TO HAVE DOCUMENTATION THAT THEIR ANIMALS WERE COMING FROM A LICENSED BREEDER, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE. CITY? SO CERTAINLY THAT. CHECK STEP. MY QUESTION TO THE COUNCIL IS IF WE REQUIRE THAT, WHAT ARE WE COMPARING IT TO. YOU SAY THAT THE THERE'S A DATABASE OF LICENSED BREEDERS. SO BROCK'S TEAM WOULD JUST DOUBLE CHECK THAT AGAINST THE LIST. AND WHILE THE CERTIFICATE THE DOCUMENT BASED. SO I CAN'T IMAGINE WHO PROVIDES THOSE. WHERE DO WE FIND THE DATABASE THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT I NEED TO FIND OUT. IF THERE'S NOT REALLY ONE, THEN THAT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC, RIGHT? BUT THERE IS. I WOULD VENTURE TO GUESS DEPARTMENT, PROBABLY COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON. I'D LIKE TO ASK THIS QUESTION. OKAY. ARE WE OKAY WITH THIS? YES. OKAY. MISS MATA, CAN YOU TELL ME, ARE ANY OF THE PUPPY MILLS THAT YOU OR ANY BREEDERS YOU WOULD DESCRIBE AS A PUPPY MILL? ARE ANY OF THEM LICENSED BREEDERS? YES. SO WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE REALLY DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM. DOES IT REQUIRE STORES TO SOURCE FROM USDA LICENSED BREEDERS? REALLY DOESN'T HELP BECAUSE THE USDA ENFORCES THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT, WHICH IS ONLY SUBSTANCE. SUBSISTENCE REQUIREMENTS. MAKING SURE THE ANIMALS HAVE FOOD, WATER. THANK YOU. I JUST I FEEL LIKE IF WE WANTED THIS TO HAVE ANY REAL TEETH, WE NEED TO FOLLOW SANDY CITY'S MODEL. I KNOW YOU DON'T
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LIKE THAT SANDY CITY'S MODEL. PROHIBITS RESALE OF DOGS BRED FOR SALE. AND THAT WOULD CREATE A MODEL THAT WOULD REALLY PREVENT PUPPY MILL PUPPIES FROM BEING BROUGHT THROUGH OUR CITY.I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S WHERE THE COUNCIL DEFINITELY NEEDS TO GO OR ANYTHING, BUT I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT IF WE WANT WHAT WE'RE DOING TO HAVE REAL MEAT, REAL SUBSTANCE, THAT'S DIRECTION SANDY WENT. THAT'S DIRECTION SALT LAKE CITY WENT. AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT WE SHOULD DO AS WELL. IF WE'RE REALLY INTENT ON MAKING A DIFFERENCE. THERE'S OUR DOGS, CATS, RABBITS. YEAH. SO WE WHAT WE NEED TO FIND THE SOLUTION FOR IS ADDRESSING THE DEMAND SIDE OF THE PUPPY MILL PIPELINE. AND THAT'S WHERE THAT'S THE THAT'S THE ULTIMATE QUESTION RIGHT NOW. THE DEMAND SIDE IS THAT ONE STORE, MISS JORDAN. SO THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN. ARE WE TRYING TO WITH WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT WITH SANDY, THAT WON'T STOP ANY MORE FROM COMING TO WEST JORDAN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T RESELL UNLESS THEY GET THEIR PETS FROM SHELTERS OR WHATEVER, WHICH THEY WON'T DO BECAUSE IT'S IT'S A PUPPY STORE THEY'RE SELLING.
THEY'RE NOT SELLING HUMANE SOCIETY PUPPIES. THEY'RE SELLING. IT'S NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE OF GOODS, YOU KNOW. EXACTLY. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY I COME BACK TO THE QUESTION ASKING THE COUNCIL, DO WE NOT WANT ANY MORE PUPPY CAT RABBIT STORES JUST LIKE SANDY TO COME TO SALT TO COME TO US? JORDAN? OR ARE WE JUST LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE HEALTHY? WHAT ARE WE LOOKING TO DO WITH THIS? WELL, THAT WAS THE REASON FOR BRINGING IT TO THE COUNCIL TO SEE WHERE WE ALL WANT TO GO. BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING THE QUESTION TO START. BIGGEST CONCERN I HAVE WITH THIS. IS WE EFFECTIVELY CREATE A MONOPOLY IN THE CITY IF WE PASS THIS.
SAME TIME, I'M NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST IT, BUT WE NEED TO PROTECT ANIMALS AND THE CONSUMER. AND I'M NOT OVERLY CONCERNED ABOUT A MONOPOLY BECAUSE, I MEAN, TECHNICALLY, I GUESS THEY KIND OF HAVE ONE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONLY ONE. BUT THAT'S THAT'S NOT DOES THE I MEAN, THEY DO THE ADOPTION EVENT. SO THAT'S DIFFERENT. RIGHT. BUT YOU CAN STILL GET AN ANIMAL FROM THEM THAT IS GOING TO HAVE ISSUES. RIGHT. SO IF IF OUR CONCERN IS TO GET ANIMALS THAT AREN'T GOING TO HAVE ISSUES FOR THE CUSTOMER, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE A CHANCE OF HAVING AN ANIMAL WITH ISSUES, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE PAPERWORK TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE ISSUES POTENTIALLY COULD BE OR WHAT THEY WERE, YOU HAVE A PAPER TRAIL. BUT THE HUMANE SOCIETY IS NOT GOING TO HAVE A PAPER TRAIL ON THAT. DOG NECESSARILY ARE GOING TO BE WORSE BECAUSE THE STRAY GOT. STRAY GOT PICKED UP BY OUR ANIMAL CONTROL PEOPLE, AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT IS. AND THEN THEY GO TO THE SHELTER AND THEY GET ADOPTED OUT. SO I'M OKAY WITH DOING SOMETHING LIKE SANDY DOES. I I'M OKAY WITH THAT. I JUST DON'T THINK IT SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF THE CURRENT PUPPY STORE. YEAH. ISSUES GETTING GRANDFATHERED IN, I KNOW THAT, BUT I'M SAYING WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT DOESN'T CHANGE WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT STORE AND WHAT KIND OF PUPPIES THEY'RE SELLING. I MEAN, IT'S NOT A TOTAL SOLUTION, BUT IT IS A TANGIBLE, LOCAL STEP. I THINK IT DOES DO SOMETHING. IT DOES SAY IT STOPS. BUT IF YOU ASK FOR A PIECE OF PAPER. WHO KNOWS WHO WHO KNOWS WHERE THE BREEDERS ARE LICENSED AT? BUT IF YOU ASK FOR A PIECE OF PAPER AND PUT WHATEVER THEY WANT ON THE PIECE OF PAPER AND SAYS IT CAME FROM JOE BLOW, AND HERE'S THE DOG'S HISTORY. WELL, AND IF THEY FALSIFY EVENTS AND THEN THEY CAN LOSE THEIR BUSINESS LICENSE, THE PROSECUTOR WILL INVESTIGATE THAT. YEAH. THE CITY CAN PUT THAT. WE CAN HIRE ANOTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TO TO BE THE PUPPY SOURCE TRACER. CALL THE ANIMAL CONTROL CODE SKIP TRACER. NO, BECAUSE BUSINESS LICENSES FALL UNDER BROCK. THIS ISN'T AN ANIMAL CONTROL ISSUE. I'M GOOD WITH THIS. SANDY, I THINK IS I DO THINK IT DOES SEND A MESSAGE THAT WE DON'T WANT THIS, AND IT IS JUST THE ONE. THEN WE DO HAVE PLENTY OF PEOPLE, AMY, AND OTHERS WHO HAVE PROTESTED THAT STORE AND LET PEOPLE KNOW AND TRIED TO LET CONSUMERS KNOW. BUT IF WE SEND A MESSAGE THAT THIS BUSINESS IS NOT WANTED, WHAT BUSINESS IS NEXT THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEND A MESSAGE, I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL FIND OUT. THAT'S BUT THE NEXT GROUP OF PEOPLE COME IN AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, SANDY SENT THE MESSAGE AND IT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE. YEAH. AND I DON'T SEE I DON'T SEE THAT IT'S BEEN A BIG OUTCRY. SO BUT EACH POLICY, I MEAN, IT IS INDIVIDUALLY SCOPED
[00:30:03]
WITH EACH POLICY THAT WE DO HAVE. AND THIS ONE IS, IS A VERY SPECIFIC ONE TO THE RESELLING OF LIVE ANIMALS. IT'S NOT IT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I'M JUST SAYING SANDY'S ORDINANCE DOESN'T STOP THE RESELLING ISSUE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AS WELL. SO.WE'RE STILL GOING TO GET THEIR PUPPIES FROM WHATEVER SOURCE THEY'RE GETTING FROM. MY MAIN ISSUE IS IT'S GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. IT'S REQUIRING IT'S REQUIRING A SPECIFIC REASON. I WAS OPPOSED TO THE MASSAGE THING. YOU'RE YOU'RE PUTTING IN REQUIREMENTS FOR A SPECIFIC TYPE OF BUSINESS THAT OTHER TYPES OF BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE TO ADHERE TO. THAT THAT UNFAIRLY SINGLE OUT SPECIFIC BUSINESS. THAT'S JUST THAT'S JUST THE WAY I SEE IT. AND AS IT AND WE MAY AND THAT'S FINE. AND WE WE MAY DO THAT ANYWAY WITH OTHER BUSINESSES THAT MAY BE, THAT MAY BE A THING THAT HAPPENS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS OR NOT, BUT I THINK FOR ME TO BE IDEOLOGICALLY CONSISTENT FOR MY OWN COGNITIVE DISSONANCE, I CAN'T. I JUST DON'T SEE REQUIRING A BUSINESS TO PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT BREAKING THE LAW. IS IS WHY DO WE HAVE DRIVER'S LICENSE? WHY DO YOU HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE? THAT TELLS ME THAT BECAUSE IT'S SAYING YOU'RE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. THE STATE, LIKE THE STATE, GRANTS YOU A LICENSE FOR THE ABILITY TO DRIVE, AND YOU HAVE TO CARRY THAT LICENSE THAT YOU'VE BEEN GRANTED TO PROVE THAT YOU'RE OPERATING THE VEHICLE LEGALLY. THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THIS THAT WE DO ALL THE TIME, I THINK. YEAH, PROBABLY PROBABLY. THE POINT IS, IS THAT THE PROBLEM IN PET SALES IS SYSTEMIC. AND SO PRESUMPTION OF GUILT OF WE'RE SELLING PUPPIES FROM A PUPPY MILL. I THINK ONE CAN PRESUME THAT IF YOU'RE SELLING PUPPIES THAT HAVE BEEN BRED FOR SALE, THAT THEY'RE FROM A PUPPY. BUT I WOULDN'T BUT BUT THAT WE'RE AUTOMATICALLY PRESUMING SOMEBODY'S GUILTY BECAUSE THEY SOLD A DOG TO A PUPPY STORE. I, I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN.
THERE'S NO WE'RE MAKING A BIG PRESUMPTION. AND IF THERE'S CONSUMER FRAUD INVOLVED, LET'S WE CAN USE THE CONSUMER FRAUD CIRCLED AROUND THERE FOR THAT. ARE INTERESTED IN THE SANDY THING TO AT LEAST PUT THAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE SANDY IN THE SANDY CITY. WE GOT MORE INTEREST IN THAT WE CAN MOVE FOR THAT. COUNCILMEMBER SHELDON AND COUNCILMEMBER ATLANTA AND COUNCIL MEMBER FEDORA. I COULD DO SOMETHING, BUT NOT SANDY, THAT SANDY'S IS A TOTAL BAN. SANDY'S DOESN'T LET YOU ARTIFICIALLY DYE OR COLOR CHICKS, DOESN'T LET YOU DO ANYTHING. I KNOW. YEAH. THEY CAN'T DO. WHY NOT? I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS LIKE YOU CAN'T DO THAT. THAT'S SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN TAKE OUR START FROM. THAT'S WHY I. THAT'S WHY I'M A NO. BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE SANDY. SANDY. WE CAN WE CAN JUST START FROM. SO MY QUESTION IS, ONCE WE DRAFT THE CODE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME BACK TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE YES YES YES YES YES. THIS GIVES US THE THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO SEE TODAY. WHERE WHERE WOULD WE BE COMFORTABLE. AND AT SOME POINT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THIS DATABASE MIGHT BE OF BREEDERS. YEAH, SURE. BUT THAT'S ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S A SEPARATE THING. WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING STOPPING NEW STORES COMING IN. WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT A DATABASE THAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH SANDY BANS THE STORE. EXACTLY. IT DOESN'T DOESN'T DEAL WITH THE LICENSED BREEDER. UNLICENSED. WE DO HAVE THE CERTIFICATE OF SOURCE REQUIRED WITH SANDY. YEAH BUT THAT WOULDN'T THAT STORES WOULD THAT GO AGAINST THE CURRENT PET STORE. IT WOULD BE COMING BACK TO US. ARE WE OKAY TO MOVE ON? YEP. YEAH. CAN I JUST CLARIFY. YES. WE'RE BRINGING BACK IS THE SANDY ORDINANCE. THEN WE WANT TO START WITH THAT. BUT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO FULLY COPY THAT. WE WANT TO START WITH THAT BASIS AND BUILD ON THAT. WHAT YOU'RE EXPECTING TO COME BACK IS THE SANDY ORDINANCE, AND THEN YOU'LL TALK ABOUT IT AT THAT POINT TO, TO DECIDE WHAT TO REMOVE. WE MAY TALK TO COUNCIL. ARE WE COMFORTABLE HAVING MR. CHANDLER WORK WITH COUNCIL MEMBER BLOOM AND BREEDER ON WHAT THEY BRING BACK? YEAH. CAN I JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY THAT WHAT I HEARD BEFORE VOTE WAS TO MODEL THE SANDY ORDINANCE. SO ARE THE FOUR OF YOU. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING IF THEY'RE OKAY. AND SO FAR, I'M UP TO THREE. YES, YES, YES, THEY'RE ALL OKAY. IF COUNCIL MEMBER. BLOOM AND COUNCIL MEMBER BADOR KIND OF WORK WITH THEM ON. GREAT. YEAH. THANK YOU GUYS, I APPRECIATE IT. AND THANK YOU FOR PUSHING BACK.
[b. Discussion on Wagstaff Investments, LLC Request to Amend the Future Land Use Map and Rezone Property Located at 6205 W 9000 S to SC-1 for a Commercial Development]
[00:35:02]
THAT'S NEEDED TO MAKE IT BETTER. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM WHICH IS A DISCUSSION ON WAGSTAFF INVESTMENTS FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND REZONE FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 6205 WEST 9000 SOUTH. I HAVE MR. BRANT NOEL. GO AHEAD AND JOIN US AT THE TABLE. AND STAFF WILL BE MR. HANDLER AND MR. NOEL. YOU'RE UP FIRST. PRESENT WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO PRESENT TO US. IS THERE A PICTURE? 40,000 WORDS. I DON'T KNOW, WHICHEVER ONE YOU GUYS WANT. PICTURES? THERE IS A MAP. YEAH. ALL RIGHT, SO THIS IS A REQUEST TO AMEND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FROM LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL, ALSO TO REZONE THE PROPERTY FROM ARLINGTON. CC TO AN SC ONE. SO TODAY WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR INPUT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU FEEL THAT THE REZONING AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP AMENDMENT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS. THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED THE RUNWAY PARK IS JUST UP THERE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE WORD SITE. YEAH, THE SOUTH PART OF THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE. COME ON, RAY, JUST SAY IT. IT'S THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE. RESIDENTS ARE ADAMANTLY OPPOSED. I'VE HAD MULTIPLE REACH OUT, AND I'M NOT CONVINCED IT'S A GREAT SPOT FOR COMMERCIAL. AND THEY'RE THEIR OWN LITTLE PIECE. SO I AND WHAT IS IN THE PACKET DOESN'T TELL ME WHAT KIND OF COMMERCIAL JUST SAYS COMMERCIAL. SO WHAT? I'LL JUST. SO THIS IS THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. IT CALLS FOR RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ON THE SITE. YEAH. THE REQUEST IS THE REASON FOR THAT REQUEST IS TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY IS AS COMMERCIAL. SO THIS IS JUST A CONCEPT PLAN. SHOWING WHAT IS HOW IT MIGHT DEVELOP OUT. IS THAT THE NEW CONFIGURATION OF THE ROADS THAT IS APPROVED AND EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, IT KIND OF CUTS STRAIGHT THROUGH WHERE THAT LINE IS. AND SO IT WOULD BE RECONFIGURED, BEING RECONFIGURED TO CONNECT IN WITH THE SOUTH, WHICH IS SOUTH WOULD BE THAT EAST WEST. RIGHT. THAT THAT RECONFIGURATION IS HAPPENING REGARDLESS OF THIS APPLICATION. RIGHT? CORRECT. CORRECT. WELL, I WROTE DOWN SEVERAL RESIDENTS PERSPECTIVES AND THEIR UNDERLYING CONCERNS, AND MAYBE WE CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THAT FOR TRAFFIC AND SAFETY.WE'RE ALREADY ISOLATED BY 900 SOUTH CONSTRUCTION. MORE CARS WILL MAKE IT FEEL UNSAFE. AND I FEEL THAT UNDERLYING CONCERN IS THAT COMMERCIAL USE EQUALS GAS STATION TRAFFIC AND CUT THROUGH ON COPPER CLOUD LANE. IS TIED TO 6250 RIGHT THERE. IT'S THE ONE THAT THE WEST END OF THE DEVELOPMENT HOOKS INTO. FOR SOME REASON THEY DIDN'T PUT HOUSES IN THAT SECTION. SO IT'S OWNED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BOUGHT THE, THE, THE, THE ACRE WHERE THE HOUSES WERE SO THAT THEY'D HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR OTHER TWO AND A HALF ACRES TO WHEN THEY BUILT THE CHURCH THERE. THAT'S THAT'S WHY THAT ONE, THAT'S WHY THERE'S TWO PARCELS. THERE WAS ONE PARCEL THAT WAS A STRIP FOR HOUSES ORIGINALLY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THE OTHER TWO AND A HALF ACRES IN THE CHURCH BOUGHT THOSE. SO THAT TO ME, IT'S OBVIOUS THE CHURCH BOUGHT THOSE SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THE EASTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY. SO IS THE TRAFFIC CONCERN A REAL ISSUE THAT THESE RESIDENTS ARE BRINGING UP? THIS SITE PLAN SHOWS, SHOWS JUST THREE CONNECTION POINTS ON 6250 WEST. SO WHAT THAT WOULD DO IS MIX TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC GENERATED BY THIS DEVELOPMENT. PARTIALLY ON 6250 WEST. THAT'S PROBABLY THAT. THAT'S PROBABLY THE MAIN CONCERN. YEAH. THAT THAT ACCESS POINT THAT'S GOING TO BE SURE BECAUSE BECAUSE EVERYBODY THAT'S EVERYBODY THAT BECAUSE THE 90TH SOUTH IS SUPPOSED TO BE A RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT. SO IF, IF, IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE COMING EAST AND YOU WANTED TO GO INTO THIS, YOU'D GO IN FROM NEW BINGHAM HIGHWAY. BUT IF YOU LIVED ON 90 SOUTH, YOU'D GO OUT THROUGH 6250 AND USE IT AS A CUT THROUGH. THERE'S THE REROUTING OF NEW BINGHAM HIGHWAY REALLY INVOLVED TAKING OUT THAT INDUSTRIAL COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT WAS JUST BUILT. NO, ON THIS. IT'S PRETTY CLOSE.
[00:40:06]
IT'S OVERLAPPING IT BY 20FT. ON THIS MAP. YOU HAD A YOU HAD FEEDBACK ON THE TRAFFIC. YEAH.SO I MEAN WE'RE WORKING WITH ENGINEERING. THEY'RE A THIRD PARTY GROUP. SO THEY'VE DONE A TRAFFIC STUDY. WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO GET A MEMO FROM THEM TO SHOW THE PASS THROUGH TRAFFIC AND THE BYPASS TRAFFIC. SO A LOT OF THE COMMERCIAL SITES THAT WE DO, IT IS TRAFFIC THAT'S ALREADY GOING ON 90TH AND ALREADY GOING ON. BINGHAM. YES, THERE MIGHT BE SOME THAT IS A DESTINATION, BUT A LOT OF IT IS JUST CAPTURING THE TRAFFIC. I MEAN, WE ALL KNOW 90TH SOUTH PUNCHING THROUGH IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ARTERIAL ARTERIAL ROAD. SO IT'S CAPTURING THAT TRAFFIC ALREADY AS OPPOSED TO BRINGING NEW TRAFFIC. SO DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING IN THERE. BECAUSE IN THE PACKET IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN COMMERCIAL. AS RAY MENTIONED, THIS IS A CONCEPT PLAN. SO WE AT WAGSTAFF INVESTMENTS, WE DO ALL SORTS OF INDUSTRIAL, COMMERCIAL RETAIL. RIGHT. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING IN THERE. I THINK IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT THEY'RE SHOWING YOU RIGHT THERE. THAT'S A PROPOSAL OF WHAT WE'VE DONE IN OTHER AREAS. BUT A LOT OF IT IS WE'RE LOOKING AT IF THE REZONE IS POSSIBLE FOR AN SC1, AND WE WOULD GO IN WITH WHATEVER PERMITTED USE THAT WE FEEL IS BEST FOR THAT LOCATION.
BUT SO I'M GOING TO BE EXTREMELY CYNICAL IF YOU GO BACK. I HAVE NEVER BEEN CYNICAL AND I WAS NEVER TYPEKIT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN TAUGHT TO BE CYNICAL. GO BACK ONE. I'VE NEVER BEEN TAUGHT TO BE CYNICAL IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, WORKING IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY. BUT WHEN I SEE A CONCEPT PLAN THAT SAYS HAS A BIG HOLIDAY LITTLE HOLIDAY LOGO ON IT, IT'S GOING TO BE A HOLIDAY OIL. SO. SO WE'LL CUT TO THE CHASE. THAT'S GOING TO BE A GAS STATION BECAUSE HOLIDAY OIL IS INVOLVED. SO WAGSTAFF INVESTMENTS OWNS ALL THE LAND FOR HOLIDAY OIL.
BUT WE DO HAVE INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSES. WE HAVE RETAIL, WE HAVE STRIP MALLS. IT COULD BE A GAS STATION. I MEAN, THAT DOES FALL UNDER AN SC ONE ZONING, BUT IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR OTHER A LOT OF OTHER MANY USES AS WELL. THERE'S TWO THINGS FOR ME. ONE, I'M WITH KAYLEEN. THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE BACK HERE THAT DON'T WANT IT IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. TWO IF YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP AND YOU LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND THE COLORS YELLOW MAKES THE CONSISTENT SENSE TO KEEP IT RESIDENTIAL. AND THREE, NOTHING I HAVE HEARD SO FAR. AND I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO OUR ORDINANCE, INTO OUR GENERAL PLAN AND THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP ARE PRESUMED TO BE ACCURATE, UNLESS THERE'S BEEN A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE. NOTHING'S CHANGED ON THAT CORNER EXCEPT FOR THE BECAUSE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WAS MADE KNOWING THAT 90TH SOUTH WOULD GO THROUGH. AND SO JUST TO SAY, WELL, WE WANT TO AND THE OTHER THING THAT BOTHERED ME AND I WILL THROW THIS ON THE TABLE, IS WHEN SOMEBODY COMES TO ME AND SAYS THERE AREN'T MUCH THERE ISN'T MUCH COMMERCIAL SPACE BETWEEN MOUNTAIN VIEW AND U111. I'M GOING TO CALL BS BECAUSE THE WHOLE SOUTH SIDE OF 90 IS SOUTH BETWEEN 64TH WEST AND U111 IS ZONED TO ALLOW COMMERCIAL THE NORTH. THE THE NORTH EAST CORNER OF 90TH SOUTH AND U111 HAS 30 ACRES OF COMMERCIAL. ACROSS THE ROAD. THERE'S COMMERCIAL AND WE'RE LOOKING AT MORE COMMERCIAL ON U111. THERE'S PLENTY OF COMMERCIAL LOTS HERE. SO IT IT BOTHERS ME WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS THERE'S NO COMMERCIAL. LOTS BETWEEN THERE'S NO COMMERCIAL SPACES BETWEEN MOUNTAIN VIEW AND U111 BECAUSE THERE ARE. AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP AND YOU LOOK THE WAY THE STREETS ARE DESIGNED AND EVERYTHING RESIDENTIAL MAKES SENSE, AND I WOULD SAY RESIDENTIAL BELONGS THERE. AND THEN THE LAST THING AND I'LL SHUT UP IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE CONCEPT PLANS, IT BECOMES THREE AND A HALF ACRES OF CONCRETE. NO, NO DETENTION POND, NO ANYTHING.
IT'S THREE AND A HALF ACRES OF CONCRETE. AND I'M NOT GOING TO PUT THREE AND A HALF ACRES OF CONCRETE WITH POTENTIAL OF A 24 HOUR STORE. AND THESE NEIGHBORS BACKYARDS. I REFUSE TO DO THAT.
AND THEN I WOULD CAN I SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT? SO, I MEAN, WE FOLLOW ALL THE CITY GUIDELINES AND ORDINANCES FOR WHATEVER THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS ARE. I MEAN, SO IT COULD BE UNDERGROUND RETENTION PONDS OR IF IT IS AN OPEN SWELL FOR RETENTION, EVERYTHING WOULD BE BASED OFF THE CODE. I MEAN, WE JUST CAN'T DO OF COURSE WE CAN'T DO WHAT WE WANT. SO WE CAN FOLLOW THE LANDSCAPING PLAN AND TREES, SHRUBBERY, GRASS IF THAT'S NEEDED. BUT ANY TYPE OF COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE BEING DONE, IT'S ALWAYS BASED OFF OF THE CITY'S LANDSCAPING ORDINANCE. COUNCILMEMBER LAMB ALL RIGHT, I'M NOT GOING TO BE CYNICAL. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE? I'LL BE CYCLICAL. LET'S SEE. WE HAVE CYNICAL. SO I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO ZACH BEING THE
[00:45:03]
ELDER CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. IT'S BEEN HERE FOR THE LONGEST. WHAT IS WHAT IS THE THING THAT WE'VE ALWAYS SAID ABOUT THAT PIE RIGHT THERE. WHAT SHOULD WHAT WHAT DO WE ALWAYS SAY ABOUT THOSE HOMES? SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN BUILT. SO THAT TELLS ME RIGHT THERE THAT WE CANNOT PUT RESIDENTIAL IN THAT LITTLE CORNER RIGHT THERE. IT'S GOT TO BE SOMETHING ELSE. HOLD ON, HOLD ON. I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT THOSE HOMES ARE ALREADY THERE. SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IF WE PUT HOMES IN THIS LITTLE CORNER RIGHT NOW AND DON'T CHANGE IT TO COMMERCIAL, WE'RE GOING AGAINST EVERYTHING WE'VE SAID FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER PUT HOMES THERE. SO MY MY THING IS, WHO WANTS TO BUILD THEIR HOMES NEXT TO A CORNER HIGHWAY WITH TRAFFIC? NOBODY. SO WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT SOMETHING COMMERCIAL THAT WORKS. I AM A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED BECAUSE I THINK YOU NEED SPACE ON 90TH AWAY FROM THE ROAD. YOU NEED SPACE FROM BEING, NOT FROM NEW BINGHAM ACROSS THE ROAD.AND I WILL NOT IF I IF I DO APPROVE COMMERCIAL, I WILL NOT ALLOW SOMETHING TO GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BECAUSE IF I LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I DON'T WANT PEOPLE DRIVING INTO MY NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THE COMMERCIAL. BUT I THINK IF WE ADDRESS THESE UNDERLYING CONCERNS, I DON'T THINK YOUR HOUSE IS THERE. WELL, NO, I'M NOT SAYING HOUSE. I'M SAYING, YOU KNOW, UNDERLYING CONCERNS ABOUT THE TRAFFIC, UNDERLYING CONCERNS ABOUT VISUAL CLUTTER, LIGHTING, PERCEIVED DOWNGRADE OF THE PROPERTY VALUES. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TELLING THE WHOLE STORY AND SEEING ALL SIDES OF THE PICTURE. SO THAT WAY WE CAN MAKE THE BEST DECISION FOR THE RESIDENTS AND THE CITY IN THAT SPOT. AND SO THE CONCERNS OVER TRAFFIC, THE CONCERNS OVER THE, THE, THE, THE CLUTTER AND THE BUSYNESS RIGHT THERE, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO GET DOWN TO. SO WE KNOW IF WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD, WHICH DIRECTION WE NEED TO FORWARD WITH. WHY DOES THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE NOT WANT TO GO TO CHURCH THERE? IT'S PERFECT LOCATION FOR A CHURCH. IS IT? I THINK IT IS. IT'S. IT'S ONLY CHURCH WOULD THE IDEAL THREE ACRES. AND SO A DECENT SIZED CHURCH PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE 5 OR 6 ACRES. REALLY. I'D SAY IT'S PROBABLY TOO SMALL FOR A CHURCH. THEY DON'T WANT TO BUILD ONE, SO WE CAN'T FORCE THEM TO. RIGHT, RIGHT. I MEAN, WE'VE WORKED WITH JOE CARLESIMO AND I MEAN, HE'S ALSO WITH WAGSTAFF. JOE CARLESIMO IS A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE CATHOLIC PROPERTY. HE TOLD US THAT THEY AT ONE POINT HAD INTENTIONS TO BUILD A CHURCH, BUT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR LAND ELSEWHERE, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. IS A 1031 OUT OF THIS INTO ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY? IF YOU'RE WITH WAGSTAFF, GO AHEAD. THEY FOUND ANOTHER PROPERTY SO THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHURCH.
DO THEY WANT TO DO A FUNERAL HOME THAT'S DOWN THE STREET. CHURCH IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. IT'S 3.59 ACRES. SO THEY'RE USING OUR OUR SALE. IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE MOST CHURCHES ARE ABOUT FIVE ACRES. SO OKAY, LET'S SAY WE DO MOVE FORWARD WITH CHANGING THE ZONING. JUST I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT THERE AS AN AS JUST ASKING FOR VISUALS. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BUFFERING OPTIONS LIKE FENCING, LANDSCAPING, SETBACKS, THAT SORT OF THING TO PROTECT? THEM? I MEAN, BUT I WANT TO I MEAN, I NEED TO THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY FENCING BECAUSE THEY WANT EVERYBODY IN THEIR DOG. THAT'S DRIVING UP 90TH AND NEW BINGHAM HIGHWAY TO SEE IT. WELL, MANY OF THE CITY ORDINANCES IF IT'S ANY TIME COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL, IT'S A MASONRY BLOCK FENCE. SO THAT WOULD BE ALONG ON THE WEST SIDE. AND THEN YEAH. SO ANYTIME IT ABUTS UP TO PROPERTY, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, THERE HAS TO BE A COMMERCIAL. OKAY. SOUTHWEST CORNER. BUT HERE'S THE DEAL. AND I LIVE ACROSS FROM COMMERCIAL LIKE THIS. EVEN THOSE PEOPLE ON THE NORTH SIDE ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BECAUSE YOU WON'T HAVE A FENCE THERE. YOU'LL IT WILL BE OPEN AND YOU'LL HAVE LIGHTING AND YOU'LL HAVE TO GO TO CITY CODE, BUT IT'LL STILL BLEED OVER INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I UNDERSTAND AND YOU'RE RIGHT, CHAD, WE HAVE SAID MANY TIMES, WHY DID A PRIOR COUNCIL PUT THAT THERE? I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT'S ALREADY THERE. I DO KNOW THAT HOMES ON THAT PROPERTY WILL SELL, AND IT'S PUTTING RESIDENTIAL AND RESIDENTIAL AND AND THERE'S ALREADY IF THERE WAS A RESIDENTIAL, I WOULD SAY NO WAY. BUT THERE IS RESIDENTIAL. AND THIS IS LIKE SAYING, YEAH, GO AHEAD, PUT SOME KIND OF COMMERCIAL THERE AND JUST BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. WELL, MAYBE THEY'LL BE GOOD NEIGHBORS, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT GUY WHEN IT SELLS TO THE NEXT GUY OR THE NEXT GUY? AND I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO THE RESIDENTS TO HAVE IT. IT SHOWED ON OUR MAP. IF THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE WEREN'T INTERESTED.
IT'S UNFORTUNATE. THEY, LIKE MANY PEOPLE, DIDN'T COME WHEN WE WERE DOING A GENERAL PLAN WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND SAY, HEY, WE'VE GOT OTHER PLANS, BUT I JUST DON'T HAVE THE APPETITE TO GIVE THEM MORE COMMERCIAL THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE AROUND THEIR HOMES. THAT'S INDUSTRIAL. COMMERCIAL. WOULD IT BE REASONABLE TO DEFER THIS CONSIDERATION UNTIL SIX MONTHS AFTER THE 90TH SOUTH IS FULLY OPEN TO MEASURE THE ACTUAL FLOW, AND TO SEE WHAT THAT TRAFFIC'S
[00:50:01]
LIKE AND AND TO SEE WHAT IT'S ACTUALLY DOING AS AN OPTION. WELL, WE HAVE THAT OPTION. THE COUNCIL HAS THAT OPTION. NO, NO, I'M JUST SAYING LIKE DO WE WANT IT. DO WE WANT TO CONSIDER LIKE LET'S HOLD OFF. LET'S WAIT TILL THE ROAD'S BUILT. LET'S SEE WHAT EVERYTHING IS GOING ON. HE MAY BE TALKING IN TWO OR 3 OR 4 YEARS. I THINK THAT MAKES MORE SENSE WHEN I SEE A RELATIVELY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH THAT IS. I THINK IT'S MEDIUM UNDER THE CODE, BUT IT'S IT'S RELATIVELY LOW DENSITY. IT'S HOUSES WITH YARDS THAT YOU CAN PLAY A GOOD GAME OF WIFFLEBALL IN. SO APPARENTLY THAT'S A YOU CAN OR YOU CAN THROW A BASEBALL, YOU CAN PLAY CATCH IN YOUR BACKYARD. YEAH, EXACTLY. YOU KNOW WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THAT. WHEN I SEE THAT AND I SEE INDUSTRIAL, I THINK WHAT COMES TO MY MIND IS BUFFER. WHAT'S A BUFFER BETWEEN A LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE INDUSTRIAL THAT'S ALREADY THERE? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT REALLY THE MOST COMPATIBLE OF USES. JUST ACROSS THE NEW BINGHAM HIGHWAY. RIGHT? ESPECIALLY NEW BINGHAM HIGHWAY, THERE BEING TWO LANES, IT'S NOT EVEN A FIVE LANE HIGHWAY. IT'S A TWO LANE HIGHWAY. SO I SO WHAT COMES TO MY MIND IS BUFFER, I THINK WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD BUFFER COMMERCIAL CAN BE A GOOD BUFFER. IF IT'S A LOW IMPACT LOW, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A COMMERCIAL THING LIKE A GAS STATION, CONVENIENCE STORE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD WOULD BE LOWER IMPACT THAN THAT ROW OF STRIP MALL THAT IS ON THE CONCEPT NOW, THREE AND A HALF ACRES ON THE FOR A GAS STATION IS KIND OF BIG. BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST JUST AS A, AS A, AS JUST WHAT'S COMING IN MY MIND. ANOTHER, ANOTHER THING THAT COMES TO MY MIND IS A MEDIUM OR SLIGHTLY DENSER RESIDENTIAL PRODUCT, A TOWNHOME NEIGHBORHOOD, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD BUFFER THE INTENSE USE OF THE INDUSTRIAL FROM THE LESS INTENSE USE OF THE RESIDENTIAL. SO THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT COME TO MY MIND IS WHAT'S APPROPRIATE THERE. SO COMMERCIAL MAYBE, BUT NOT COMMERCIAL. BLANK SLATE COMMERCIAL. BRING ME SOMETHING SO I CAN BECAUSE BLANK SLATE COMMERCIAL. THERE'S I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THE IMPACT IS GOING TO BE ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD, MUCH LIKE YOU WERE. I TALKED TO I TALKED TO A IS THAT YOU I TALKED TO YESTERDAY WAS I TALKED TO HER FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR YESTERDAY. MY APOLOGIES. MY SYMPATHIES. YEAH. ANYWAY, IF IT WERE I MAY NOT BE AGAINST THE LOW IMPACT. COMMERCIAL. IF IT WERE, I'LL GIVE YOU THE HYPOTHETICAL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY. THAT THAT THAT COULD, THAT COULD WORK WOULD BE SOMETHING MORE ALONG THE LINES OF THAT LITTLE COMMERCIAL STRIP OUT IN FRONT OF THE SOUTH JORDAN CITY HALL, THAT THEY'VE GOT THAT LITTLE STRIP MALL THAT'S GOT ALL THE TREES AND THE HALF DOZEN STORES WITH THE WITH THE CHEESE, AND THE HAVE A CUPCAKE STORE IN THERE, THE CUPCAKE STORE, WHATEVER THEY HAD IN THERE. AND IF, IF IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WOULD ATTRACT A LITTLE BIT OF COMMERCIAL BUT WOULD INCREASE AND ENHANCE THE WALKABILITY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, I WOULD SAY.AND, AND AND THEN, THEN I'D SAY THE NEIGHBORS MAY THE MAY THE NEIGHBORS MAY NOT OPPOSE IT AS MUCH BECAUSE IT'S SHOPS THAT THEY WOULD VISIT OR IT WOULD BE CONVENIENCE. IT WAS A DRIVE CLEANER, A BAKERY, A PIZZA STORE, AN ICE CREAM STORE. IT COMES BACK TO PIZZA STORE. BUT ICE CREAM STORE, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. IF THAT WERE, IF THAT WERE IN THERE, MAYBE I COULD JUSTIFY THAT. WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORS. BUT I'M I'M AGREEING WITH I'M AGREEING WITH THE WITH ZACH. IF IT'S A BLANK SLATE, WE JUST WANT SC ONE AND THEN WE WANT TO SEE WHAT WE WHAT WE WANT TO PUT ON IT. OH HELL NO. WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE SC ONE IS FOR THOUGH, BECAUSE IT'S A LITTLE LESS THAN THE SC TWO STATIONS CAN BE ON THERE AND I'M NOT I DON'T WANT TO PUNISH THE NEIGHBORS FOR HAVING SOMETHING THAT'S OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY, OR EVEN WAY LATE AT NIGHT, OR I'M NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT THAT. IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE SEEK OUT NO, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF NEIGHBORHOOD SERVING TYPE, ADDITION TYPE THINGS. AND IF IT WERE MIXED USE, MAYBE IT'S A MIXED USE VERTICAL THING. OIL CLOSES OVER IT OVER HERE WITH SOME TREES. IS THAT ONE ON MAVERICK? DOESN'T THE MAVERICK DOESN'T CLOSE AT 11. THAT'S A STOP BY AT COUNCIL MEETINGS. THIS IS SUCH A DISGRACE. OKAY. SO WE AGREE THAT. SO I MEAN OF COURSE WE AS AN INVESTMENT GROUP WE NEED TO DO WHAT'S THE BEST ROI. I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST SPEND $4 MILLION ON THIS PIECE OF GROUND AND PUT UP ONE LITTLE, ONE LITTLE BUILDING BECAUSE THAT MAKES NO SENSE. NO DEVELOPER IS GOING TO DO THAT. SO THAT'S WHY WE WOULD HAVE TO
[00:55:02]
COME IN WITH WHAT WE FEEL IS THE BEST USE FOR THAT. SC ONE PERMITTED ZONING. THAT'S THAT'S WORKING THROUGH THE CITY. AND WHETHER IT IS STRIP MALLS OR MINI FLEX, WHICH IS LIKE A STRIP MALL WITH SOME ADDITIONAL USES, OR A GAS STATION OR ANY OTHER KIND OF QUICK SERVE RETAIL SPOT, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FISCAL MOTIVES ARE STILL KEEPING IN LINE WITH THE QUALITY OF LIFE PROTECTIONS. I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE BALANCE NEEDS. IT'S IT'S A BIG THREE AND A HALF ACRES IS A BIG SWATH. I MEAN, THEY HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC. SO COFFEE SHOP ARE THERE ARE THERE FOUR COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT ARE OKAY SAYING SURE HAVE SC ONE ON THIS SITE WITHOUT BUFFER. SO I MEAN YES, WE WOULD LOVE AS MANY ACCESSES AS POSSIBLE. BUT IF THAT COPPER DUST LANE IS A MASONRY FENCE WITH FUTURE TREES ON THAT LIKE WEST SIDE, IS THAT SOMETHING AS A BUFFER? ENOUGH WITH THE MASONRY FENCE WITH TREES. I WAS JUST SAYING THAT TO BOB THAT IF IF ON THE EAST PORTION THERE WAS SOMETHING SMALLER, YOU KNOW, SOME SMALL LOW IMPACT COMMERCIAL. AND THEN ON THE WEST YOU PUT SOME TREES AND A FENCE AND SOME GOOD VISUAL BLOCKAGES TO IT. I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S I WOULD ONLY LOOK AT COMMERCIAL IF IT DOESN'T GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IF THERE'S THE BUFFER, I MEAN, EVEN, YOU KNOW, THAT LITTLE PARCEL, CAN YOU PUT SIX HOMES OR FIVE HOMES RIGHT THERE? I DON'T KNOW.DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST TALKING IN THAT LITTLE PORTION ON THE STREET, ALMOST CUT BY THE LINE.
LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ONLY ROOM FOR LIKE FIVE HOURS. OH, THAT'S 4 OR 5. YEAH. THIS GENTLEMAN WITH FLAGSTAFF HAS SOMETHING. SO JUST TO ADDRESS THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT, WE ACTUALLY WORK WITH QUITE A FEW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPERS. WE'VE DONE HIGH DENSITY PROJECTS, WE'VE DONE MID DENSITY AND SOME THAT DO LOW DENSITY. THE THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP HERE IS THE TRAFFIC. BUT IN TERMS OF A BUFFER, WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT DOING SOME LOW IMPACT COMMERCIAL AS A BUFFER IN ADDITION TO ANY LANDSCAPE OR FENCING REQUIREMENTS. WE'VE WORKED IN CITIES THAT HAVE HAD US BUILD GIANT FENCES, WHICH WE'RE HAPPY TO DO. WE JUST WANT THE RESIDENTS TO BE HAPPY. WE WANT THEM TO COME TO OUR STORE, AND ACTUALLY EVERYONE COMPLAINS ON THE FRONT END AND THEN ONCE IT'S BUILT, THEY'RE ALL OVER GETTING THEIR THEIR SLURPEES AND THEIR SLUSHIES. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN. BUT IN GENERAL, WE WANT TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE TOWN. BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THE SITE PLAN BEING THREE ACRES, THE STATION WOULD ONLY TAKE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. TWO STATION TWO TWO AND A HALF. SO WE HAVE SOME LAND AVAILABLE FOR BUFFER. WE CAN DO A DOG PARK. WE COULD DO WHATEVER THE CITY SAYS. THERE'S A DOG PARK, A DOG PARK, DOG PARK. THAT'S THE ONE THING WE HAVE THERE. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO TO CREATE A GOOD TRANSITION, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO DO ANY OF THOSE. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE IT IS. YEAH. OH, I GOT THAT CORRECT. WE HAVE WE HAVE GUESTS AS A PART OF OUR PORTFOLIO. SO YES, WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS CORNER. WE'VE ALSO DONE MINIFLEX CLOSE TO THIS SITE IN HARRIMAN, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A STRIP MALL THAT'S BEEN MENTIONED. DO YOU HAVE A DO YOU HAVE AN ADDRESS OR AN IDEA OF WHERE THAT IS SO THAT I CAN JUST PULL? YEAH. SO WHAT IS IT? 13 I CAN PULL IT UP. WHICH ONE. WE'RE PULLING THAT UP. MR. LINKS FOR MINIFLEX. SO IF I COULD I'M REALLY GRATEFUL THAT THE COUNCIL HAS KIND OF GRAVITATED MORE TOWARDS IS THIS GOOD TO KEEP AS RESIDENTIAL OR CHANGE TO COMMERCIAL? IF THE COUNCIL DECIDES TO REZONE IT, DO CHANGE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, THEN REZONE IT. THEY WOULD BE FOLLOWING THE COUNCIL'S ORDINANCE, WHICH MEANS YOU'VE GOT A YOU CAN'T CONDITIONALLY APPROVE A REZONING. I'LL LET THE ATTORNEYS TO CORRECT ME IF I'M MISSTEPPING, BUT IF IT'S SC ONE, IT'S SC ONE. ALL THE PERMITTED USES CONDITIONAL USES ALLOWED IN THE SC ONE ARE ALLOWED OR CONDITIONALLY APPROVED. GAS STATIONS ARE PERMITTED. USE. YOU CAN'T DICTATE HOURS OF OPERATION, THINGS LIKE THAT. SIX FOOT MASONRY WALL. IT WOULD BE REQUIRED IF IT GOES COMMERCIAL. YOU GOT A 20 FOOT REQUIRED LANDSCAPE BUFFER BETWEEN THAT AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT AS FAR AS ACCESS GOES, OBVIOUSLY WE DEFER TO OUR PROFESSIONALS, NESTOR, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEERS HERE, BUT IT IS A PUBLIC STREET AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THEY WOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO ACCESS THEIR PROPERTY FROM A FROM ACCESS THEIR PROPERTY TO A PUBLIC STREET. THERE'S THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD UNLESS THERE'S A HEALTH SAFETY ISSUE THROUGH THE TRAFFIC ENGINEERING, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONNECT IN WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD FOR OUR CURRENT ORDINANCES AND STANDARDS. SO I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT OUT THERE. SO IF IT IS CHANGED, THEY FOLLOW THE THE CURRENT CODE AS ON THE BOOKS. GIVEN THAT I'M A NO, I THINK THE FEAR IS WE'VE BEEN SWITCHED PREVIOUSLY. SO IF WE'RE IF YOU
[01:00:06]
IF YOU'RE TELLING US, OH IT'S GOING TO BE LOW, IT'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, INTEGRATING THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE GO AHEAD AND APPROVE. APPROVE. LET'S CHANGE IT TO AN SC ONE. AND THEN IT TURNS INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THAT'S WHAT THE FEAR IS. WE HAVE FOUR THAT WANT TO SAY YES TO SC ONE AND HAVE THEM CONTINUE AT THIS POINT. YES OR NO. YEAH. OR THAT'S WHERE WE'RE TORN. I MEAN I WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CONVERSATION. I SUGGEST LET'S WAIT SIX MONTHS UNTIL AFTER THE ROAD IS COMPLETELY DONE AND THEN HAVE THE CONVERSATION. DO WE KNOW WHEN THE ROAD? I KNOW IT'S IN THE DESIGN PHASE B ARE THERE FOR IN FAVOR OF FUTURE LAND USE CHANGE. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I ASKED LAND USE IN A WAY, IN A DIFFERENT WORDING. YOU CAN'T DO A ZONING CHANGE BECAUSE FUTURE LAND USE MAP SAYS RESIDENTIAL. SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FIRST, WHICH IS WHAT SCHOLARS SAY. SO AM I WRONG IN THAT? NO, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, THEY CAN RUN CONCURRENTLY. OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN FUTURE LANDS. BUT THE QUESTION IS, DO WE KNOW WHEN IT WAS IN THE DESIGN PHASE? DO WE HAVE AN ETA ON WHEN THE ROAD IS GOING TO BE COMPLETED? MR. CLEGG, MR. CLEGG 2027 OH START CONSTRUCTION 2027. SO IT'LL BE 2028 AT LEAST AT LEAST TWO YEARS. YEAH, MY MY ANSWER IS STILL NO. 27.5. WHAT ARE YOU. IT WON'T TAKE A YEAR TO FINISH.I'M NOT THROWING THESE REDS. I WILL JUST GO ON THE RECORD. I'M NOT THROWING THE RESIDENTS UNDER THE BUS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD ONE MORE TIME. DON'T WANT TO THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS. WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION FORWARD, BUT THERE'S NOTHING. NOTHING HAS OVERCOME THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE GENERAL PLAN AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP OF R1 TEN IS INCORRECT. SO YOU'RE SAYING HOMES ARE NOTHING ELSE? I WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WILL OVERCOME THE PRESUMPTION THAT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IS INCORRECT, I'D LIKE TO HEAR IT. I'VE HEARD NOTHING. SEEING NOTHING. I'VE HEARD NOTHING OR SEEN ANYTHING THAT TELLS ME THAT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND THE RESIDENTIAL IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND YEAH, WE ALL TALK ABOUT THAT. NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN BUILT. BUT ARE WE GOING TO COMPLICATE THE PROBLEM BY THROWING THEM UNDER THE BUS AGAIN AND BUILDING COMMERCIAL AND MAKING THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WORSE, OR ADDING 10 OR 12 HOUSES AND KEEPING IT RESIDENTIAL? AND IT FILLS IN AND IT'S AND IT ADDS 10 OR 12 NEIGHBORS TO THESE GUYS, AND THEY WALK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BETTER. THAT'S WHERE I'M GOING.
AND I'VE SEEN NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT. NOTHING. THERE'S NO EVIDENCE, NOTHING BEEN PUT ON THE TABLE TO SAY WHY THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND THE GENERAL PLANS PRESUMPTION OF BEING ACCURATE CAN BE OVERCOME, BECAUSE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WAS PUT TOGETHER, KNOWING THAT 90TH WAS GOING THROUGH SO THAT I DON'T SEE I DON'T SEE ANYTHING THERE. AND SO I'M JUST A NO ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND THE ZONE, I'D LIKE TO AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY, EXCEPT FOR ONE POINT AND THAT IS I CAN'T BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. I DON'T BELIEVE ANY DEVELOPER IN TODAY'S MARKET AND CLIMATE IS GOING TO PUT R1 TEN IN THAT LITTLE WEDGE. SO WHAT WE'RE EFFECTIVELY ASKING THEM TO DO IS TO SIT ON THAT PROPERTY AND PAY THEIR PROPERTY TAXES AND NOT DEVELOP IT. WAIT, IS IT OWNED BY THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE AND THEY DON'T PAY PROPERTY? OKAY. SO WE'RE JUST ASKING THEM TO SIT ON IT. WE'RE ASKING THEM TO HOLD ON TO A PIECE OF PROPERTY FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY, WHICH I WOULD THINK MOST CHURCHES WOULD. AND I WOULD ARGUE, I WOULD ARGUE YOU THINK THE CHURCH JUST WANTS TO LEAVE LAND? THEY CAN, I WOULD THEY MIGHT NEED THE MONEY FROM THAT TO BUILD THEIR NEW CHURCH. I WOULD ARGUE THAT KNOWING KNOWING THAT HOUSE BUILT HOUSING COMMUNITY, SOMEBODY WOULD WANT THREE ACRES, THREE AND A HALF. THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO BUILD, WHETHER IT'S R1 TEN OR NOT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. AND MAYBE, MAYBE THE MARKET HAS CHANGED. THE R1 TEN DOESN'T FIT IN THERE.
MAYBE R1 EIGHT DOES. MAYBE THE INTEGRATED HOUSING ORDINANCE FITS IN THERE WITH A MIX OF TOWNHOMES AND HOUSES. WHAT I'M SAYING IS BRING IN SOMETHING REASONABLE THAT MEETS THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND THE GENERAL PLAN HERE AND NOT COMPLETELY SWITCH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP FROM RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL. YEAH, TWO QUESTIONS OR TWO THINGS ONE IF
[01:05:03]
IF THIS IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH CHANGING THE ZONING, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR TIMEFRAME FOR BUILDING? SO WE TYPICALLY DO THE CITY WITHIN 3 TO 6 MONTHS OF CLOSING. SO WE HAVE TO GET THROUGH CIVIL ENGINEER AND DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE. AND ALL THAT HAS TO CHANGE. HAS TO CHANGE. YEAH. I MEAN, JUST LIKE WE DID OUT AT 7400 SOUTH, WE WAITED FOR THE ROAD TO BE DONE AND THEN WE CAME IN WITH WOULDN'T EVEN HAPPEN UNTIL 2027 AT THE EARLIEST. BUT THE LAND NEEDS TO BE PURCHASED. BUT YEAH, THE LAND PURCHASE MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. OKAY, SO IT WOULD BE FEASIBLE TO COME BACK TO THIS CONVERSATION WHEN THE ROAD IS DONE. BUT WHAT I HEARD FROM THE RESIDENTS, BECAUSE, YEAH, THERE WAS A LOT OF CALLS AND TEXTS AND EMAILS YESTERDAY THAT OVERALL RESIDENTS AREN'T OPPOSED TO THE PROGRESS. THEY'RE JUST ASKING FOR PROOF THAT IT'S GOING TO BE SAFE AND COMPATIBLE. AND THAT, I THINK, IS AT THE CORE OF THIS DISCUSSION. STREET TRAFFIC.YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE THAT. WE DON'T HAVE THAT TRAFFIC. YES. SAFE AND COMPATIBLE. AND THERE'S TRAFFIC STUDIES ALWAYS THE CONCERN BUT IT'S RARELY THE REALITY WHEN IT COMES TO MOST DEVELOPMENTS. I MEAN, I GET IT. YOU ALWAYS PUT A POLICE STATION THERE, BUT I'M STILL I'M STILL I'M STILL ON THE LIKE I WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AFTER THE ROAD IS BUILT AND THEN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. OKAY. SO I, WE NEED TO GIVE HIM AN ANSWER. AND BASICALLY HE, HE WANTS TO KNOW IF WE HAVE FOUR THAT ARE WILLING TO GRANT HIM WHAT HE'S ASKING FOR NOW, WHICH IS A LAND USE CHANGE. SO THAT THEY CAN DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO BUILD IN THE FUTURE OF SOME KIND OF SC ONE. SO IF YOU ARE WILLING TO GIVE HIM THAT NOW, PLEASE SHOW BY RAISE OF HANDS. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE APPETITE TO MAKE THIS CHANGE YET. IT MAY BE THERE IN THE FUTURE. ONCE THE ROAD IS COMPLETE AND WE KNOW, OR AT LEAST THE ROAD IS ACTUALLY BEING BUILT. SO WE KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THIS WOULD BE AND WE WOULD WANT MORE DETAILS, IS WHAT I WHAT I HEARD, WHAT I WOULD CONVEY TO YOU THAT MORE DETAILS WOULD BE NEEDED BEFORE WE HAD THE APPETITE TO MAKE THE CHANGE. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. WELL, THERE'S A DEVELOPER THAT TAKES A LOT OF FINANCIAL COST UPFRONT FOR PLANS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S WHY WE CAME IN WITH THE CONCEPT. WE GIVE YOU A WORK MEETING SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO EXPEND FUNDS. AND YOU KNOW HOW WE FEEL. IT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. IT'S NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION DOWN THE ROAD FOR SURE, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY YEAH, THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS ON THIS ONE. YEAH. BUT PREFERENCE IS HIGH DENSITY. THEN I'M JUST NO PREFERENCE PREFERENCES DETAILS WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO COME WITH TIME PREFERENCE IS SOMETHING THAT WILL GO BETTER WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THAT THE NEIGHBORS WILL FEEL THAT IT'S A GOOD MIX FOR THEIR COMMUNITY. IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE HIGH DENSITY AND YOU DEFINE IT ACCORDING TO OUR CODE. MAYBE. BUT IF YOU DEFINE IT ACCORDING TO WHAT PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY HEAR HIGH DENSITY, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY. BUT THAT'S THE SAME THING, RIGHT? SO NO, IT'S NOT THE SAME AS RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL.
THAT'S THAT'S MY QUESTION. RIGHT. YOU BROUGHT UP DENSITY. SO SO WE IF IF THE CURRENT ZONE IS LEFT IN PLACE, WE'RE TALKING 3 TO 5 HOMES. THAT'S OUR 110. YEAH. BUT THAT'S I DON'T THINK NO I DON'T THINK A DENSER RESIDENTIAL PROJECT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. BUT WHEN YOU SAY HIGH DENSITY, WHAT PEOPLE HEAR IS, OH, A 40 STORY APARTMENT BUILDING OR A FOUR STORY APARTMENT BUILDING OR DENSE APARTMENT BUILDINGS, THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE HEAR. BUT THAT BUT ALSO TOWNHOMES ARE HIGH DENSITY UNDER THE CODE. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT PEOPLE HEAR WHEN YOU SAY HIGH DENSITY. WHEN I SAY HIGH DENSITY. AND I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET US TO FIX THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, LINE IT UP WITH EXPECTATIONS, BUT IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN. AND IT MIGHT BEHOOVE YOU TO HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. YEAH, A NEIGHBOR TO WHAT? SORRY.
NEIGHBOR NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING. OKAY. SO ALL RIGHT, WELL, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. GAS STATION. OH, THERE YOU ARE IN THE CORNER. THE NEXT ITEM ON
[c. Update to the West Jordan Public Improvement Standards]
OUR AGENDA IS AN UPDATE TO THE WEST JORDAN PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT STANDARDS. CONFESSION. AT 245 PAGES. I DIDN'T GET THAT READ. I'M GLAD YOU DO. SAID I'M NEVER GOING TO. HEY, GREG, LET'S JUST SAY WE DO. AND DON'T LET'S JUST SAY YOU'RE GOOD, OKAY? SO GIVE ME THE DETAILS. I CAN GO THROUGH THIS REALLY QUICK. LET ME DO THIS ANYWAY. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO IT QUICK. TELL ME WHAT THOSE 245 PAGES SAID. 245 PAGES IN EIGHT WORDS OR LESS. SO THAT'S SO OUT OF THE 245 PAGES FOR THE NEW THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, I WOULD SAY 70% OF THAT ARE DRAWINGS. THE THINGS THAT A CONTRACTOR WOULD USE. SO I CAN HAND THIS TO MY GRANDKIDS AND THEY COULD COLOR IT TOO. THEY COULD COLOR IT. I LIKE PICTURES. SOUNDS LIKE YOU SHOULD HAVE GIVEN US PAPER[01:10:03]
COPIES. WE COULD PUT THEM TO GOOD USE, RIGHT? YEAH. I WISH I COULD GET THESE TO STAND UP RIGHT, I REALLY CAN'T. THESE ARE THE CURRENT STANDARDS THAT ARE ADOPTED. BY THE CITY, RIGHT? SO IF YOU WERE A DEVELOPER AND YOU HAD TO WORK IN THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN, THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD USE FOR RIGHT NOW FOR WATER SEWER WITH OUR OLD LOGO AND ROAD. RIGHT. THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE SO OLD, RIGHT? UPDATED THEM IN A MINUTE. MOST OF THESE WERE ADOPTED FROM 2004 ALL THE WAY TO IF YOU SEE THE 2008 AND 2007. JUST A COUPLE OF FUN FACTS FOR 2007. THAT'S WHEN THEY RELEASED THE FIRST IPHONE. THAT'S WHEN GOOGLE RELEASED STREET VIEW. THERE WERE TWO NEW WORDS INTRODUCED INTO THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE HASHTAG AND TWEET THAT YEAR. RIGHT. THAT'S HOW OLD SOME OF THIS IS. WHY DON'T WE JUST WAIT ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS AND THEN WE CAN SAY IT'S IT'S CELEBRATED. IT'S TWO DECADE OLD. SO WHAT I'M REALLY HOPING TO DO IS, IS TO TAKE ALL OF THIS AND CONDENSE IT DOWN INTO SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS. GOT IT SOLD.RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO DO NEXT. I BET YOU CAN FIT IT ONTO A THUMB DRIVE. OH YEAH. BUT BUT THE MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR THE FOR THIS, RIGHT, IS THAT IF YOU'RE AN ENGINEER AND YOU HAD TO WORK IN THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN AND YOU HAD TO READ ALL THIS, YOU WOULD JUST SKIP IT AND YOU WOULD JUST GIVE US WHAT YOU GIVE EVERYBODY ELSE. AND THE CITY STAFF WOULD GO THROUGH THE FIRST 2 OR 3 RED LINES, JUST EXPLAINING TO YOU WHAT CITY CODE IS. SO I'M TRYING TO SIMPLIFY IT. SO IF AN ENGINEER OR SOMEONE HAD TO SUBMIT SOMETHING TO THE CITY, THEY COULD READ IT IN A HALF AN HOUR OR LESS AND KNOW WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO. AND OUR FIRST SUBMITTAL IS GOING TO BE GOOD. SO WHAT DID YOU DO? JUST MAKE THE FONT SMALLER. MAGNIFYING GLASS. I TOOK OUT A LOT OF STUFF. RIGHT. THERE'S NOW THERE'S A LITTLE MORE THAT GOES IN THIS. THIS IS A APWA STANDARD BOOK THAT EVERYBODY USES. APWA CORRECT. FOR EVERY ALMOST EVERY CITY IN THE VALLEY. SO THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE TO LEARN THIS BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW IT. SO WHAT IF INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, ONCE PER DECADE UPDATE, IS THERE ANY WAY TO DO LIKE AN ANNUAL ENGINEERING REVIEW? YEAH, I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF WORK, A LOT OF WORK, BUT IF IT'S DIGITIZED AND ONLINE AND TRACEABLE, THAT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR THAT. MAYBE. BUT MOST, MOST, MOST, MOST STANDARDS FOR ENGINEERING ARE UPDATED EVERY FIVE YEARS. SO IF YOU LOOK AT FEDERAL HIGHWAY. YEAH, EVERY IF YOU LOOK AT BUILDING CODE, YOU KNOW, INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE OR THE PLUMBING CODE, OR IF YOU LOOK AT FEDERAL HIGHWAYS MANUAL OR EVEN MY STUFF THAT I USE EVERY DAY, W-W-W WATER EVERY FIVE YEARS IS TYPICALLY WHEN THEY DO THAT. SO IS THIS GOING TO BE SIMILAR TO THE SALT LAKES ONLINE INFRASTRUCTURE? OKAY, COOL. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE THAT'S HOW I KIND OF GOT DOWN TO MY LOWER. IF YOU GO TO SALT LAKE CITIES, THEY HAVE A LOT LESS SOME OF THE GOALS RIGHT WHEN WE DID THIS IS OUR STANDARDS REALLY ARE REALLY, REALLY OLD. SO WE WANTED TO UPDATE THAT, BUT WE WANTED TO SIMPLIFY THOSE STANDARDS FOR THE MORE PEOPLE COULD USE THEM AND UNDERSTAND THEM. WE THOUGHT IF IT WAS A SIMPLER STANDARD, THAT YOU WOULD GET THROUGH THE PROCESS FASTER AND THAT IT WOULD GET YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS FASTER, IT WOULD COST LESS FOR DEVELOPERS. IT'S REALLY LIKE A REGIONAL GOALS A AND A, A AND A A AND A. OH YEAH.
WILL THIS BE LIKE A REGIONAL COORDINATION, LIKE WITH THE WITH THE SOUTH VALLEY WATER AND JORDAN VALLEY, LIKE, IS THIS GOING TO BE LIKE A COORDINATION WITH THE REGIONAL. SO I'M GOING TO SAY SOMETHING AND IT MAY BE TRUE. IT MAY NOT BE TRUE. CITIES AND AND IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS COPY FROM EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME. THAT'S WHAT I FIGURED. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS. IF YOU THINK THAT IF YOU THINK WE WOULD INSTRUCT OUR LAWYER TO COPY SANDY CITY ORDINANCE COPY. NEVER HAPPEN. DID YOU EVER LEARN THE CASE METHOD? OKAY. STANDS FOR COPY AND STEAL EVERYTHING. IF YOU PULL UP JORDAN BASIN SANITARY SEWER DISTRICT'S NEW STANDARDS THAT THEY DID LAST YEAR, YOU'RE GOING TO FIND PARTS OF WEST JORDAN CITY CODE IN THERE. YEAH.
IF YOU PULL UP MINE NOW, YOU'LL PROBABLY FIND A LITTLE BIT THAT MATCHES WITH JORDAN BASIN. NOW THEY'RE STILL WAY TOO COMPLICATED FOR ME. THEY HAVE A LOT OF STUFF IN THERE THAT I THINK YES, WE WOULD USE IF I REALLY WANTED TO GET DIFFICULT WITH DEVELOPERS, BUT I THE SIMPLE VERSION I THINK COVERS 95% OF ALL DEVELOPMENT THAT HAPPENS IN WEST JORDAN. THE REST THEY WOULD NEED TO COME TO YOU AND ASK FOR SOME SORT OF MODIFICATION OF DESIGN STANDARD RIGHT TO HANDLE THAT OTHER 5%. SO THEY HANDLE ALL THESE CONDITIONS THAT I DON'T I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO. THAT'S WHY THEIRS IS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN OURS. AND IF IT'S NOT HANDLED IN OURS, THEN WE WOULD MAKE THEM COME AND TALK WITH YOU. I LIKE THAT IDEA. IF
[01:15:04]
WE CAN HANDLE 95, 96% OF THE WORK WITH SOMETHING SIMPLE, AND IF SOMETHING COMES UP OUT OF THE ORDINARY, THEN WE DEAL WITH IT, THEN WE DEAL WITH IT AND WE MOVE ON. RIGHT. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF OF TEN PAGES THAT JORDAN VALLEY HAS THAT I DON'T HAVE PUMP STATIONS. THEY HAVE ALL THIS STUFF ON BECAUSE WE PUMP STATIONS. I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT. RIGHT. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE REASONS WHY, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE PASSED, THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, I'M GOING TO GUARANTEE YOU IN MINE I HAVE SOME OF SALT LAKE CITY, I HAVE SOME OF SANDY, I HAVE SOME JORDAN BASIN. RIGHT. AND IT'S NOT EXACT WORD FOR WORD. RIGHT. BUT I LIKED THAT THEY HAVE ADDRESSED THE TOPIC THAT WE DON'T ADDRESS. RIGHT. LIKE, I'LL TELL YOU, ONE OF THE ONES THAT JORDAN BASIN ADDRESSES THAT WE DON'T IN JORDAN BASIN ADDRESSES HOW TO FILL UP OR DRAIN SWIMMING POOLS. RIGHT. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT HERE. SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY EVERY YEAR I HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT I'D REALLY RATHER NOT. THIS WILL THIS WILL MATCH BETTER DRAINAGE SWIMMING POOL. YOU PULL THE PLUG. IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT. SO? SO ANYWAY, SO WE'VE GOT STUFF THAT THAT CAN HANDLE SOME OF THAT NEW STUFF THAT WASN'T AROUND. OH WAIT, HOLD ON. LET ME GO BACK. SO BECAUSE STANDARDS FALL UNDER, THERE'S A REALLY PARTICULAR PROCESS THAT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW WHEN WE DO THIS. THIS REALLY HAS TO. IT'S A VERY PUBLIC AND OPEN PROCESS. WHEN WE AMEND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR OUR PUBLIC PROCESS HERE. THIS IS THE START. I'M GOING TO COME TO THE COMMITTEE THE WHOLE.BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING, I'M HOPING TO GET WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO OUT OF THIS PROCESS BECAUSE THIS IS THE START, RIGHT? AND THEN I'M GOING TO GO TO DEVELOPERS, CONTRACTORS AND THE PUBLIC. I'LL PROBABLY WORK WITH DAVID DOBBINS WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WILL PROBABLY HOLD A SPECIAL MEETING JUST FOR DEVELOPERS, A DEVELOPER. YEAH. KIND OF TO HAVE THEM LOOK AT THIS. I'LL PROBABLY GIVE A COPY OF THIS TO SOME VERY BIG DEVELOPERS IN WEST JORDAN CITY TO SAY, HEY, TELL ME WHAT YOU LIKE, WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE, SO THAT I CAN KNOW IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS I CAN SOLVE. IF THEY DON'T LIKE ANYTHING, THEN YOU'VE DONE IT RIGHT. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO, I'M SAYING THAT MOST OF THE TIME I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE VERY HAPPY. THERE'LL BE A COUPLE OF THINGS. WE'RE LIKE, WE'RE REALLY NOT HAPPY. AND THEN I CAN FIND OUT WHY. IF IT'S IF THERE'S A REALLY GOOD REASON, I MIGHT. IF THERE'S AN ENGINEERING REASON FOR CHANGING, I MIGHT CHANGE IT. IF IT'S NOT, I'LL JUST EXPLAIN IT TO YOU WHEN WE COME BACK. BUT THE MORE PREDICTABLE WE MAKE OUR CODE, THE LESS FRICTION WE HAVE BETWEEN THE DEVELOPERS, THE BUILDERS AND THE STAFF. SO THIS MAKES SENSE. AND THE FASTER THE PEOPLE, THE MORE THAT EASY THIS WORKS. WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS HAVE THE CONSTANT. HERE'S THE PLAN. HE GETS REDLINED. HERE'S THE PLAN. IT GETS RED LINE. HERE'S THE PLAN. IT GETS RED LINE. THAT NEVER HAPPENS. AND AND AND IT GOES BACK AND FORTH. AND THEN THOSE PEOPLE, THE DEVELOPERS GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SAY, SEE, THEY'RE BEING OBNOXIOUS. AND WE NEED TO WE NEED. SO YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. I'M I'M STILL TRYING TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC, THOUGH. YOU HAVE TO KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO PUT SOMETHING IN HERE THAT'S BAD FOR WEST JORDAN. AS LONG AS THE ENGINEERING STANDARDS PRECLUDE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BY CONSTITUTION PARK. AND OKAY, AFTER WE TALK WITH THE PUBLIC, WE AND WE MAKE CHANGES TO THIS. I'LL GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION IF YOU WANT ME TO. I COULD EVEN COME BACK TO THE COMMITTEE THE WHOLE ONE MORE TIME, IF YOU WANT. THAT'S FINE WITH ME. IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. THIS WILL BE.
THIS WON'T BE SOMETHING THAT I BRING BACK IN A MONTH OR 2 OR 3. IT'LL PROBABLY BE IN 2026 BEFORE I COME BACK, BECAUSE I'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO MAKE LITTLE CHANGES IN EVERY SECTION OF THIS. AND THEN FINALLY WE'LL COME BACK FOR YOUR ADOPTION, JUST SO YOU KNOW. BUT TONIGHT, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE THIS NEW STUFF TO THE DEVELOPERS WITHOUT YOU HAVING THE CHANCE TO SEE IT FIRST. AND YOU CAN, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN TELL ME YOUR COMMENTS ANYTIME AFTER THIS MEETING. ANYTIME AFTER ANYTIME. NOT NOW, NOT NOW, BUT, BUT BUT I THINK PAM PAMELA WAS ON THE RIGHT TRACK. IF YOU GUYS ARE WORKING THROUGH THESE STANDARDS AND LET'S SAY THAT THIS GETS ADOPTED, I'M GOING TO MAKE UP A MAGICAL DATE. LET'S SAY THIS GETS ADOPTED MAY 1ST, 2026. ON JUNE 27TH OF 2026, YOU NOTICED THAT THERE'S SOME PHRASING OR SOME WORDING OR SOMETHING STUPID. I THINK THAT I THINK ON THOSE THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, HOLD THEM FOR SIX, EIGHT, TEN MONTHS, BUT YOU MAKE NOTE OF THOSE AND CHANGE THEM AS YOU GO AND NOT WAIT TEN YEARS TO TO DO THAT OR 18 YEARS, NEVER MIND. PERFECT. OKAY. MR. DAVENPORT. YES. EVERY YEAR AT THE COUNCIL, THERE ARE GUYS, USUALLY MEN. YEAH. BEMOANING THAT THEY'RE MAKING MORE CHANGES OR PUSHING FOR CHANGES FOR DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTION TRADES. HOW DOES HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THIS? IS IT TOTALLY DIFFERENT? NO. BUT LIKE I SAY, I THINK THAT ONCE EVERY FIVE
[01:20:02]
YEARS, IF WE DON'T DO THAT WHEN I GO THROUGH THIS, I'LL SHOW YOU. WE BECOME SO FAR BEHIND THAT OUR MY EXISTING STANDARDS DON'T REALLY MEET STATE STANDARDS. AND I THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM. THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION. THAT'S WHY THEY CHANGE THEM YEARLY. IF YOU DON'T DO THIS EVERY SO OFTEN, EVERY FIVE YEARS, YOU, YOU END UP WITH, WHICH IS KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT NOW. WE'LL SAY, WELL, THIS DOESN'T MEAN STATE STANDARDS. SO WE'RE FOLLOWING STATE STANDARDS. BUT JUST DON'T LOOK JUST DON'T LOOK AT WHAT THE CITY STANDARDS SAY. RIGHT. AND I DON'T WANT TO GET THAT POSITION. SO IT SEEMS LIKE THAT THIS IS A LICENSING. SO SO THIS IS A I THINK THAT'S THE REASON WHY YOU WANT TO UPDATE. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SO LONG, BUT I DON'T WANT TO LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU. AND MAYBE NATE CAN HELP ME WITH THIS. UPDATING SENTENCES IS REALLY HARD. THE REASON WHY WE HAVEN'T DONE IT FOR SO LONG IS BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN EASY PROCESS. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR TWO YEARS, I DON'T KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. JUST LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, IT'LL GET EASIER. IT'LL GET EASIER FROM THREE. RIGHT? AND AND IF WE IF WE DO THIS AND WE DO IT, PAMELA SAYS IF WE DON'T WAIT TEN YEARS, IT GETS EASIER. THE LONGER YOU GO, THE HARDER IT GETS AND CHANGE WHEN YOU KNOW THERE'S. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? YEAH. AND WE HAVE DONE UPDATES OVER THE YEARS, BUT IT'S NEVER A COMPREHENSIVE ONE. IT'S TO ONE SECTION OR ONE ONE PART PART PARAGRAPH. THAT'S ONE REASON WHY THERE'S A BIG ADVANTAGE TO SHORTENING IT SO MUCH. WE'VE TAKEN OUT A LOT OF STUFF THAT WE DON'T USE, THE DEVELOPERS DON'T USE AND IS NOT NECESSARY. DAVE OR GREG'S DONE A GREAT PART, AND SO IS TODD. AND JUST REDUCING THE TOTAL VOLUME OF ALL THE OF ALL THE WORDING THAT'S IN THERE. THAT'S GOOD. YOU KNOW US WE LIKE TO CUT WORDS. PATRICK'S NOT HERE BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE IT FOR US. WE'LL SPEAK FOR OURS. BUT WE DON'T WANT. WITH US. I JUST WANT TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE SECTIONS SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING TO CHANGE, RIGHT? OUR PLAN, OUR PLAN PREPARATION CODE RIGHT NOW DOESN'T MEET STATE STANDARD.TWO YEARS AGO, THE STATE CAME AND SAID YOU CAN ONLY GIVE ENGINEERING PLANS. ONE TIME.
WE'VE SELECTED FINAL AND WE GET FOUR REVIEWS AND THAT'S IT. AND HERE IN OUR CURRENT ONES, YOU SUBMITTED IT PRELIMINARY, YOU SUBMITTED IT FINAL. AND THERE'S ALL THESE THINGS. SO THIS WILL GET US BACK UP TO TO STATE CODE WITH THIS. AND I'LL WORK WITH NATE AGAIN. THIS IS THIS REALIZE THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS AFTER EVERYONE SEES THIS. SO WE'LL MAKE THE FINAL CHANGES. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE. SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A SUGGESTION THAT IF THERE'S ANY TIME THAT THERE'S A STATE STATUTE INVOLVED. MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF WORDS WITH THAT STATE STATUTE. WE JUST SAY, HEY, WE FILE A SECTION 59, SIX, TWO OR WHATEVER THE HECK IT MAY BE. AND THAT WAY IF THE LEGISLATURE CHANGES IT, THEN OUR STANDARDS ARE ALWAYS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THAT. SO IF WE HAVE TIES TO THE STATE STATUTE, TIE IT TO THE STATUTE WITHOUT A LOT OF WORDING, HYPERLINK IT TO THE STATE STATUTE WITHOUT A LOT OF WITHOUT A LOT OF WORDS. SO SPECIFICALLY, IF THE STATUTE CHANGES THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO IN AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY ARE AND BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATE. THE LAST ONE THEY DID WAS HUGE, AND THEY MIGHT EVEN ADD A CODE THAT WE DON'T HAVE.
SO BUT ANYWAY, YES, THAT'S GREAT. THAT IS A GREAT SUGGESTION, ESPECIALLY FOR BOND AND SOME OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS. IF IT'S A BOND, JUST TELL THEM WE FOLLOW THE STATE BOND PROCESS. SO THE TRANSPORTATION RIGHT. JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE ROAD AND BRIDGE REFERENCES AND HAS INFORMATION FROM THE 2007 TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN, WE'VE UPDATED THAT MULTIPLE TIMES. SO WE REMOVED EVERYTHING THAT MENTIONED A MASTER PLAN EXCEPT FOR YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW IT SO THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE. SO EVERY TIME YOU UPDATED A NEW MASTER PLAN, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO UPDATE OUR STANDARDS. RIGHT. SO YOU'LL SEE STUFF LIKE THAT. WE ARE ADOPTING FORMALLY ADOPTING APWA, WHICH WE HAVE BEFORE, BUT WE'VE ALSO ADOPTED OUR OWN CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS.
SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION THERE. THIS WILL JUST DO APWA AND WE'LL HAVE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. NATE, DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER TRANSPORTATION HIGHLIGHTS IN THIS? MUSIC? WELL HE'S TALKING I'LL SAY FEDERAL HIGHWAY. FEDERAL HIGHWAY HAS A STANDARDS GUIDE FOR ROADS. IT GOT UPDATED IN LIKE 11 2018 AND 2020 TWO HOURS IS WRITTEN FOR 27. SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE CHANGES FROM FEDERAL HIGHWAYS AND FROM THE 11 FROM 18 OR 22.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO UPDATE IT TO THE 22 VERSION. SO THERE'S A LOT OF HIGHWAYS ADMINISTRATION ACTUALLY EXIST. FEDERAL HIGHWAYS, THEY DO. THEY GIVE A LOT OF MONEY OUT. SO WE WANT TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THOSE. THEY'RE REALLY THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING FOR ROADWAY
[01:25:02]
STANDARDS. AND AGAIN THIS WILL MEET IT INSTEAD OF BEING STUCK BACK IN SOMETHING THAT'S LATER.SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT NATE'S GROUP DID. TODD WORKED FOR A VERY LONG TIME TO CROSS-CHECK ALL THOSE BOOKS, SO THAT WE MADE SURE WE HAVE THE LATEST DATA IN THERE. ANYTHING ELSE, TODD, THAT YOU WANT TO SAY FOR TRANSPORTATION? THAT'S A BIG CHANGE. MAYBE. HONESTLY, NO. IT'S VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH EVERYTHING YOU TALKED ABOUT. WE'RE REALLY JUST STREAMLINING, MAKING THINGS AS SIMPLE AND EASY. YEAH. FOR CULINARY WATER, THIS IS ONE OF THE EXAMPLES. WE USED TO HAVE A STANDARD IN THERE FOR RESERVOIRS AND PUMP STATIONS. BUT THE TRUTH IS ONLY CITIES. WE WERE THE ONLY ONES WHO BID OUT THOSE PROJECTS. SO I HAVE A SEPARATE SET OF STANDARDS. ANYWAY, THAT GOES FOR THIS. AND IT DOES GET UPDATED. AND I DON'T NEED THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY TO TO HAVE A SAY IN ALL THAT. SO I JUST PULLED THAT RIGHT OUT.
RIGHT. AND THEN I HAVE A THREE INCH METER RIGHT NOW IN 2007, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT, BUT RIGHT NOW POLY ENDS AT TWO PVC STARTS AND DUCTILE IRON STARTS AT FOUR. SO IF YOU'RE A THREE INCH PIPE, IT'S NOT VERY EASY TO FIND STUFF TO GO INTO THERE. SO WE'VE BEEN IN THE PROCESS OF TOTALLY REMOVING THAT METER FROM THE CITY STUFF BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO FIND PARTS FOR, AND IT'S HARD TO GET. SO THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF IN 2007, THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN USED, YOU KNOW. WELL, IT WAS STILL THEN USED A LOT, BUT TODAY WE MOSTLY JUST USE THE TWO AND THE FOUR I KNOW DEVELOPERS KIND OF CRY TO ME AND SAY, HEY, CAN YOU PLEASE PUT THE THREE BACK IN? HERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE DID. THIS IS A NEW DRAWING. SO THIS THIS SEWER SADDLE DIDN'T EXIST IN 2007. WE ARE ADDING A COUPLE DRAWINGS, NOT ONLY IN SEWER, BUT IN SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT DEAL WITH NEW PRODUCTS. AND THIS IS A NEW PRODUCT THAT WE REALLY WOULD LOVE TO BE USING MORE. IT'S A BETTER CONNECTION THAN THAN WHAT THEY USE NOW, BECAUSE THE OLD CONNECTION DIDN'T HAVE THAT SADDLE AND THAT SADDLE STAYS BETTER CHANGED IN 18 YEARS. IT HAS REALLY CHANGED AND THIS IS JUST A BETTER CONNECTION. SO THIS IS ONE OF THE EXAMPLES WHERE IT'S REALLY GOING TO HELP TO UPDATE THAT STORMWATER IS REALLY CHANGED WHEN IN 2007 WE HAD ONLY DONE LIKE TWO MASTER PLANS AND THE WATER, THE RAINFALL DATA WE'RE USING THEN WAS COUNTY STANDARD THAT THEY DON'T. THE COUNTY DOESN'T EVEN FOLLOW ANYMORE AND FEMA NEVER FOLLOWED IT. SO WHEN WE MAKE SUBMITTALS TO FEMA TO CHANGE FLOODPLAINS, THEY ALWAYS TELL US YOU'RE USING THE WRONG DATA. PLEASE USE NOAA 14 DATA. THAT'S WHAT EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY USES.
SO WE'RE DOING THAT AND AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. THERE WILL BE SOME UPDATED DRAWINGS. AND THERE IS WE DIDN'T USE TO HAVE VERY MUCH ON CHANNEL DESIGN BECAUSE WE HADN'T STARTED WORKING ON THE WEST PART OF THE CITY, SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH NATURAL CHANNELS, BUT WE'VE HAD TO DO MORE OF THAT. SO WE'RE INSTEAD OF STRONG ARMING DEVELOPERS TO HAVE THEIR ENGINEER COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE APPROVE, WE'LL PUT STANDARD IN THERE SO IT'S EASIER FOR THEM. THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME UP WITH THEIR OWN. THEY CAN JUST FOLLOW OURS. OKAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR ME? GREAT. THANK YOU. WE WILL COME BACK AND LET YOU KNOW WHEN WE'VE TALKED WITH THE DEVELOPERS, AND WE'LL GIVE YOU MORE TIME IF FROM NOW AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO LOOK THROUGH THIS AND GIVE US FEEDBACK, I WOULD ALWAYS WELCOME YOUR FEEDBACK OF, WELL, HOW DID YOU HANDLE THIS? HOW DID YOU DO THIS? BUT THANKS FOR LETTING ME BE. I WOULD I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR IN SOME FORM. IT CAN JUST BE A SIMPLE EMAIL OR TEXT TO ALL OF US OR SOMETHING. JUST HOW IT GOES WITH THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WHEN YOU PRESENT IT. I'D LOVE TO HEAR HOW IT'S RECEIVED AND AND YOUR PERCEPTION OF HOW THEY WHAT THEY FELT ABOUT IT. I'M INTERESTED TO SEE HOW THAT GOES TOO. SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE. BUT WE'LL REALLY RELY ON DAVID'S GROUP TO SET THAT UP. AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT? WHEN ARE YOU DOING THAT? I DON'T KNOW, WE'VE NEVER GOING TO GET ONE THROUGH THIS. LIKE THIS IS REALLY IT'S TAKEN US A VERY LONG TIME JUST TO GET TO THIS STEP. SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO PLAN TOO FAR AHEAD. I'LL BET IT'S I BET IT'S SOMETHING AFTER CHRISTMAS THAT WE SENT OUT.
RIGHT. SO YOU'RE TALKING JANUARY. I'D ACTUALLY LIKE TO DO IT SOONER SO THAT YOU CAN, BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THIS BEFORE THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION. I DON'T WANT TO ADOPT THIS DURING THIS SESSION. NO, NO, NO. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, THEY'LL PROBABLY BE TALKING ABOUT ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS THIS SESSION. I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONES THEY TALK ABOUT. SO I THINK IF WE SHOWED THIS TO TO A COUPLE DEVELOPERS, WE'LL AND WE'LL PULL OURSELVES OUT OF THAT CONVERSATION I THINK AND I THINK THAT WILL BE GOOD. SO MAYBE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO DO THAT. DON'T YOU WANT TO BE THE ONE THEY TALK ABOUT? NO, THEY'RE TALKING IN A GOOD WAY. IN A GOOD WAY. I DO WANT TO DO THAT. IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE
[01:30:05]
HAD A COUPLE DRIVERS SAY, HEY, WHAT'S YOUR DOING RIGHT? DOING IT RIGHT. THEY'RE, THEY'RE THEY'RE MAKING IT SIMPLER. THEY'RE MAKING IT EASIER FOR US. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR. SO WE'LL WE'LL FOLLOW THEIR LEADS WHATEVER THEY WANT TO. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. LOOKS GOOD. DECORUM OF THE MEETING, SIR. THAT'S RIGHT. ALL RIGHT, NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA[d. Discussion of Rodeo Ground Camping and RV Use in West Jordan]
IS THE DISCUSSION OF RODEO, GROUND CAMPING AND RV USE IN WEST JORDAN. THIS IS BY COUNCIL MEMBER AND COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, WHO'S LEADING IT. I'VE BEEN DOING HOMEWORK ON THIS FOR THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS. THIS IS BOTH A CODE MODERNIZATION DISCUSSION AND A VISION SETTING ONE. SO THE DRIVING GOALS IS STRENGTHENING THE WESTERN STAMPEDE AS A REGIONAL EVENT COMPETITOR. THIS CAME ABOUT IN THE CONVERSATION DURING THE WESTERN STAMPEDE THAT HAVING RV PADS WOULD ATTRACT HIGHER CALIBER COWBOYS AND COWGIRLS BECAUSE THEY LIVE AND TRAVEL IN THEIR RV, AND WHEN THEY DON'T, WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW RODEO RODEOS IN THE COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE RV PADS. AND SO WHEN THEY LIVE AND WORK IN THEIR RV, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY THEY'LL PASS UP A RODEO THAT DOES NOT HAVE HOOKUPS BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT. SO THAT'S A BIG DRIVING FORCE OF IT. BUT THIS PROVIDES ACCOMMODATION FOR THE PARTICIPANTS, THE VENDORS, ATTENDEES. THIS CAN CREATE TOURISM REVENUE, AND I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH WITH OTHER MUNICIPALITIES AND OTHER CITIES AND COUNTIES THAT HAVE RV PADS. SOUTH JORDAN. THEY ALLOW RV HOOKUPS FOR MULTI-DAY EQUESTRIAN EVENTS. BLUFFDALE SAME THING DURING THE RODEO AND FESTIVAL WEEKENDS. OGDEN AND SPANISH FORK. THEY DO HAVE RV PARKING WITH WATER AND POWER HOOKUPS DURING AGAIN THE MULTI-DAY RODEOS AND SALT LAKE AND DRAPER THEY THEY DEFER TO THE PRIVATE RV PARKS. NOW THE ISSUE AND MAYOR YOU BROUGHT UP THIS CONCERN THAT WE'D BE COMPETING WITH PRIVATE. THE SAD, UNFORTUNATE AND UNFORTUNATE THING IS THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PRIVATE CAMPGROUNDS IN SALT LAKE COUNTY TO SUPPORT WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING IN THE COUNTY. SO RELYING ON THE PRIVATE IS ACTUALLY I MEAN, IT'S GREAT FOR THE PRIVATE BUSINESSES, BUT THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THAT. SO THE THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD THE CITY PERMIT AND, AND BUILD THIS OUT AND HAVE RV ON OUR PUBLIC LAND, SHOULD WE CONSTRUCT AND MANAGE? WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING OTHER WHAT OTHER COUNTIES DO, THEY DON'T OBVIOUSLY ALLOW LONG TERM BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG ISSUE.WE DON'T WANT TRANSIENT. WE DON'T WANT THE LONG TERM. THEY LIMIT MOST OF THEM LIMIT TO 29 DAYS, WHICH IS PLENTY ENOUGH, BUT ALSO ALLOWS FOR THE TOURISM LONG TERM. IT'S NOT LONG TERM.
NO. STILL CONSIDERED SHORT TERM. IT'S STILL CONSIDERED SHORT TERM. THE SHORT TERM GAINS OF THIS ECONOMICALLY AND STRATEGICALLY IS IT ENHANCES THE WESTERN STAMPEDE PRESTIGE AND DRAW ON SITE RV FACILITIES, ACTUALLY IMPROVE EVENT LOGISTICS. AND IT'S A REVENUE STREAM STREAM. LONG TERM POTENTIAL IS TOURISM DIVERSIFICATION. AND THEN WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THIS OVERNIGHT ECONOMIC CAPTURE, EACH RV VISITOR TYPICALLY SPENDS BETWEEN 70 AND $120 A DAY LOCALLY, FUEL, GROCERIES, DINING SUPPLIES, THAT SORT OF THING. AND THEN THIS COULD ACTUALLY HELP, BUT NOT CAN'T. IT CAN HELP. THERE'S SO MUCH TRAVEL IN SALT LAKE, WHETHER IT GOES DOWN TO THE NATIONAL PARKS UP TO YELLOWSTONE, THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH PLACES IN UTAH FOR PEOPLE TO COME, YOU KNOW, FOR A COUPLE NIGHTS STAY AS THEY'RE TRANSITING THROUGH THE NATIONAL PARKS. AND SO WHAT WE WANT IS WEST JORDAN AS A DESTINATION STATE. THIS IS PART OF THAT MOVEMENT TOWARDS THE DESTINATION CITY. JUST A QUICK QUESTION. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. DOES WEST JORDAN CITY HAVE ANY HOA OR CAMPGROUNDS? ZERO ZERO HOA. THERE IS A THERE'S PLENTY OF HOA. WE HAVE NO KOA. THERE'S A KOA THAT'S SOMEWHAT CLOSE TO THE AIRPORT. IT'S IT'S IN BETWEEN. IT'S IT'S ACTUALLY NEAR THE FAIRGROUNDS. YEAH.
IT'S OVER IN SOUTH TEMPLE. THEN THERE'S ANOTHER CAMPGROUND OVER IN NORTH SALT LAKE. KIND OF LIKE WHERE 215 AND I-15 JUNCTION TOGETHER IN THAT LITTLE CORRIDOR BY THE REFINERY.
SO THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT IDEAL SITES. YEAH. AND THEN THEN THERE'S ONE OVER. WAS IT DRAPER ISH. IT'S ON. YEAH. AND THAT'S A LOT OF LONG TERM RESIDENTS DEAD ENDS. AND THAT'S A LONG
[01:35:01]
TERM RESIDENT PLACE. THAT'S NOT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, CAMPING RV. THAT'S IT. SO THERE'S DEFINITELY A NEED. AND WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING SOME OF LIKE LET'S SAY LIKE IN CALIFORNIA ALONG THE BEACHES, THOSE ARE ALL COUNTY OWNED RV PARKS, AND THEY'RE VERY STRICT ABOUT ANIMALS. LIKE IF YOU BRING YOUR DOGS, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY'RE LICENSED. YOU CAN'T STAY MORE THAN 29 DAYS. IT'S DEFINITELY A CITY OR A COUNTY RUN FACILITY, BUT IT BRINGS IN REVENUE. SO DO YOU SEE THIS AS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A NET POSITIVE FINANCIALLY FOR THE CITY? NET POSITIVE? ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO DO IT, IS BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THAT LAND OVER THERE SITS VACANT AND IT ALIGNS ALL THE TIME, AND IT ALIGNS WELL WITH THE RECREATION AND PARKS FUND, LIKE THE RECREATION AND TOURISM PROJECT. BUT THE FUNDING GOALS WITH THAT COULD BE POSITIONED AS A CULTURAL INFRASTRUCTURE ENHANCEMENT. BUT THE KEY DELIBERATIONS IS ONE SHOULD WE? SHOULD WE ALLOW IT? SHOULD WE MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH, WITH POTENTIALLY PHASING IN, YOU KNOW, SOME RV PADDINGS ESPECIALLY FOR THE RODEO? WHAT DEPARTMENT WILL ADMINISTER AND ENFORCE LIKE THE RULES? SHOULD WE DO A PILOT PROGRAM WITH LIKE WESTERN STAMPEDE 2026 BEFORE WE, LIKE MAYBE MOVE FORWARD WITH IT? AND THEN HOW CAN WE TIE THIS INTO OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GOALS SUCH AS TOURISM, BRANDING OR DOWNTOWN BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE TO DOWNTOWN, OUR DOWNTOWN, ACTUALLY, WE CAN EVEN COORDINATE IN THIS WITH THE VETERANS PARK. THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS HERE, BUT THIS ISN'T ABOUT RUNNING A CAMPGROUND.THIS IS ABOUT USING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SERVES THE COMMUNITY AND VISITORS AND BRINGING PEOPLE TO WEST JORDAN WHERE WE CAN DO THIS RESPONSIBLY WITHOUT COMPETING WITH CAN'T REALLY COMPETE WITH THE LOCAL BUSINESSES BECAUSE THERE'S THERE'S NOT ENOUGH. HOW MANY PADS DO YOU THINK YOU'D NEED TO CREATE TO MAKE THIS SOMETHING THAT'S WORTHWHILE FOR THE RODEO, SINCE THAT'S THE MAIN THING? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AT THE END OF THE DAY AND WEREN'T. WHO WAS TELLING ME THAT WE ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH FOR FIVE HOOKUPS, FIVE HOOKUPS RIGHT NOW OR FIVE HOOKUPS. YEAH, BUT WE DON'T UTILIZE IT. WE DON'T USE IT. YEAH, THEY DO USE THEM WHEN THEY COME IN. SO LIKE WHEN THE RODEO IS HERE. YEAH. BUT THE OTHER 362 DAYS A YEAR, RV PARKS, WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING THERE, ANYWHERE FROM LIKE 20 PADS TO 80 TO 120 PADS, IT JUST DEPENDS ON OBVIOUSLY THE SPACE AND WHAT CAN ACCOMMODATE. BUT EVEN HAVING 20 PADS DURING THE RODEOS, DURING OUR BUSIEST USE OF THAT AREA, AND THIS IS REALLY WHERE YOU'RE SAYING THE BIGGEST USE AND NEED FOR THIS IS HOW MUCH SPACE ARE YOU GOING TO BE WILLING TO CHOP AWAY FROM WHAT IS ALREADY UTILIZED A LOT DURING THAT TIME? WELL, IT'S ALREADY GOING TO BE WITHIN THE UTILIZED SPACE. ALL THOSE CAMPERS ARE PARKED BACK THERE. IT'LL JUST BE MORE ORGANIZED.
AND, YOU KNOW, WAY WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE SERVICES LIKE WATER. BUT IN ORGANIZING, YOU NEED TO ORGANIZE. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE ABLE TO JUST TETRIS THEMSELVES IN. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING IN AND I'M FOR THIS. BUT I NEED TO KNOW WHAT HE KNOWS.
YES, BUT THAT'S WHAT I WOULD NEED TO KNOW. HOW MUCH OF THAT SPACE AND IS THAT THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF SPACE? I DEFINITELY THINK THAT WE'RE WE'RE NOT HERE WITH ANSWERS. WE'RE HERE WITH DO WE WANT TO EXPLORE THIS? WELL, THIS IS MY QUESTION TO EXPLORE. YOU'RE GOING TO EXPLORE. I'M NOT SURE HOW BIG THEY ARE. I'M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE A STANDARD SIZE. SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK TO SEE IF THEY CAN CHARGE THOSE TO HOOK UP. SO WE'RE GOING TO ADD IN, LET'S SAY 30 SPACES FOR HOOKUPS. AND THAT'LL BRING PEOPLE IN. BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY MONEY OFF OF THEM BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE DON'T EVEN CHARGE THEM FOR THE RODEO. RIGHT. BUT SO SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT MAKING MONEY DURING THE RODEO RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE ARE HOOKING UP FOR FREE. RODEOS. BUT WHEN THEY COME IN FOR RODEO, THEY WILL THEY'LL THEY'LL PROBABLY HAVE A DISCOUNT OF 159. WELL, I THINK I THINK THE DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO GO TO AN RV PARK? I DO, YEAH, YEAH. DID YOU HAVE ONE? I HAVE BEEN TO A FEW IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS, AND WE HAVEN'T PAID $75 A DAY AT MOUNTAIN SHADOWS RV PARK IN DRAPER, 450 A WEEK, PLUS TAX WHEN I WAS LOOKING AND I WAS JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, I WAS LOOKING AT WHAT THE CALIFORNIA ONES CHARGE. AND THEY'RE IT DEPENDS ON THE SPOT BECAUSE SOME OF THEM ARE BIGGER, SOME OF THEM ARE SMALLER, SOME OF THEM ARE PARTIAL HOOKUPS, SOME OF THEM WITHOUT HOOKUPS. AND THEY'RE ANYWHERE FROM $45 TO $110 A NIGHT, DEPENDING ON HOW BIG YOUR SPACE WAS AND HOOKUPS YOU HAD. YEAH. SO ARE WE GOING TO CHARGE THAT TO THE RODEO GOERS WHEN THEY COME? YEAH I WOULD WELL, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE WORKED INTO RODEO CONTRACT. YEAH. RIGHT. THAT'S WORKED INTO WHATEVER YOU'RE ALREADY USING. IF WE'RE MAKING THIS FOR THE RODEO. NO, I'M NOT
[01:40:04]
THINKING WE'RE MAKING THIS FOR THE RODEO. THAT'S THAT'S A SIDE BENEFIT. BUT FOR ME, IT'S IT'S THE REST OF THE THREE DAYS, IT'S THE OTHER 355 DAYS A YEAR THAT THAT PROPERTY SITS AND DOESN'T GET USED. AND IT'S JUST, WELL, I WOULD I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE PROPERTY IS USED AT TIMES, THOUGH, I SEE ALL KINDS OF PILES OF STUFF. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY. YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT'S BETTER. SO I THINK IT DOES GET USED. MAYBE. IS IT THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE? I DON'T KNOW, BUT I KNOW THAT WHEN I DRIVE BY THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON IN THAT. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON ON THIS. ON WHAT? THERE'S POTENTIAL RV PADS. HOW MUCH I COULD SEE. HOW MUCH. HOW MUCH IS THAT PROPERTY USED? HOW MUCH IS THE RODEO GROUND, THE PROPERTY AROUND THE RODEO GROUNDS WHERE THE PRACTICE ARENA IS AND THE DIRT SPACES AROUND HERE? NOT A WHOLE LOT OF USE. NOT A WHOLE LOT OF. IT'S NOT PART OF OUR MASTER PLAN. WE'VE KIND OF PRESENTED IT FORMALLY ADOPTED, BUT WE COULD I COULD LOOK TO SEE HOW MAYBE WE COULD FIT IN THERE AND SEE WHAT IT WOULD FIT. I THINK TO ME IT'S MORE OF THE ZONING ISSUE. I DON'T KNOW, MR. LEE.CLEARLY HIS BODY LANGUAGE, I CAN ONLY THING I WOULD SAY FOR THE RODEO PERSPECTIVE, IF WE WANT TO GET COWBOYS IN HERE LIKE OUR RIDERS PARTICIPANTS, THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT PURSE MONEY. LIKE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THEY'LL GO WITH NO HOOKUPS. FIRST MONEY. WE'RE TALKING TO PURSE MONEY. WHAT IS WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT. BUT YEAH, THE CAMP. LIKE I SAID, I DON'T SEE IT AS A RODEO BENEFIT. BUT THE OTHER SIDE BENEFIT, IT'S A SIDE BENEFIT TO THE RODEO PEOPLE.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THERE. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THE DECIDING FACTOR. NO. UNLESS IT'S BETWEEN OKAY, CLOSE ONES THAT HAVE HOOKUPS AND HOOKUPS AND RODEOS, THIS IS THE SAME.
THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO THE HOOKUPS. THEY WILL. YEAH. THE THAT PORTION OF OUR CAMPUS IS UNDERUTILIZED, NO DOUBT. BUT THAT'S LARGELY BECAUSE OF AS A CITY, WE HAVEN'T DECIDED TO USE IT EXACTLY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. WHAT HAVE WE TALKED ABOUT FOR THIS SITE? WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ENLARGING THE BLEACHERS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PUTTING A COVER OVER IT, MAKING IT INDOORS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT PARKING LOTS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT AN ICE ARENA, ICE HOCKEY.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ICE. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ADDING TO THE ART CENTER IN THE FUTURE. RV HOOKUPS. WE'RE KIND OF WE DON'T KNOW. NONE OF US ARE EXPERTS ON RODEO VENUES, AND WE KNOW WE WANT TO GET MORE VALUE TO THE COMMUNITY OUT OF THE SITE. WE'RE KIND OF STRUGGLING ON THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS, AND WE WANT TO BRING PEOPLE, WE WANT TO BRING PEOPLE IN. WE WANT TO MAXIMIZE THE, THE, THE, THE VERY PRECIOUS LAND. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF LAND, SO WE WANT TO MAXIMIZE THE USE OF THAT LAND IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE. WITH THE BEST, WITH THE BEST ROI. YES. WOULD YOU WANT US TO GO HIRE A SOME VENUE EXPERTS? SOME CONSULTANTS LIKE THAT STUDY THESE KIND OF VENUES TO HELP US FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE BEST ROI OUT OF THE VENUE OVERALL, WHETHER WE SHOULD ENLARGE IT. I'VE BEEN HESITANT ON, YOU KNOW, ANY ONE OF THESE APPROACHES BECAUSE WE'RE KIND OF GUESSING ON WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD GIVE US AN ROI, WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD PRODUCE MORE EVENTS OR PRODUCE REVENUE EXCEEDING THE COST. WE JUST HAVEN'T STUDIED IT WELL. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE INTERNALLY HAVE THE EXPERTISE WELL. AND I THINK THAT EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT. SO I'M GOING TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I'VE SAID IT FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS, WE GOT TO DO SOMETHING OVER THERE AND WE GOT TO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. I GET MONEY AND AND THERE'S, THERE'S THE MONETARY, I MEAN, THERE'S THE MONETARY, BUT THERE'S ALSO EVERYTHING THAT WE TALK ABOUT IS REALLY ANECDOTAL, RIGHT? IF WE PUT A CONCRETE FLOOR IN THE, IN THE ARENA, WE COULD USE IT FOR HOCKEY, WE COULD USE IT FOR. BUT WHAT WE DON'T HAVE AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, CORBIN TO TO THIS IS WE DON'T HAVE A VENUE EXPERT AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY THAT EXIST OTHER THAN THE ONES THAT RYAN SMITH'S HIRED TO DO THE DATA CENTER AND THE SOUTHTOWN MALL. BUT IS THERE IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT TO SAY, WHAT ARE THE PROGRESSIVE STEPS THAT WE NEED TO DO TO INCREASE THAT AND THAT WE CAN START PROGRESSING? THOSE ARE THE ONES WE NEED TO HIRE. BECAUSE BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE SAYING, OH, WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS? WELL, IT'LL COST TOO MUCH MONEY BECAUSE, OH, THE CONCRETE, WE KNOW WHAT CONCRETE COSTS. AND SO WE SAY, WELL, IS IT WORTH PUTTING 200, YOU KNOW, 400,000, $1 MILLION WORTH OF CONCRETE IN THERE. AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE REALLY SHOULD HAVE IS SOME DATA. AND SO I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. MY, MY BIGGEST COMMENT TO
[01:45:03]
TO THIS IS I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM LOOKING AT THAT AS, AS A, AS A FOR THAT PART OF THE PROPERTY. WE BUT I DON'T WANT THIS TO I DON'T WANT I KIND OF WITH THE MAYOR I'M KIND OF NOT WITH THE MAYOR. I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A I DON'T WANT THE CITY TO HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. I DON'T WANT THE CITY TO, TO, TO TO HAVE TO RUN IT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CAMPING.IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CAMPING AND RV PARK SPECIFICALLY, I DON'T WANT THE CITY TO RUN IT, RIGHT? YEAH. IF IT'S IF IT'S TRADING STATEMENT THAT. LET ME JUST A HYPOTHETICAL, YOU MIGHT SAY, WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO BRING A PASSPORT OFFICE TO CITY HALL, I DON'T WANT THE CITY TO RUN THAT BY. SO THE PASSPORT FIRST OFF IS PASSPORTS IN CITY HALL. AND WE WE THAT'S OUTSIDE CITY HALL. AND YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY THERE. THERE ARE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS OUT THERE. WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THIS IS IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN DO A IF WE COULD DO A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP THAT WE WE ESTABLISHED THE LAND THEY, YOU KNOW, AND WE FIGURE OUT WE BUILD IT, THEY OPERATE IT, THEY BUILD IT. WE GET A CUT OF THE PROFITS. SOME OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS. I'D BE I WOULD BE WILLING TO LOOK AT THAT. BUT IF IT'S IF IT'S JUST CITY RUN OR SOMEBODY PULLS IN AND THEN THEY, THEY HAVE TO COME DOWN AND HAVE TO PAY TO GET A CODE OR DO SOMETHING. IF IF THAT WERE THE CASE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE EXTREMELY AUTOMATED AND HIGH TECH. RIGHT? YOU PULL IN, YOU HAVE YOU SOMEHOW YOU PUNCH IN SOMETHING IN A, IN AN APP AND IT UNLOCKS THE IT GIVES YOU A CODE TO UNLOCK THE POWER AND THE WATER BOX OR SOMETHING THING. BUT I WOULD RATHER SEE IT AS A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP. AND THEN WHEN IT'S THE AND THEN PART OF THAT PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP IS THAT IF IT'S DURING THE RODEO, THE RODEO JUST GETS TO USE IT FOR THE RODEO GETS TO USE IT FOR THOSE DAYS. IT'S BOOKED FOR THOSE DAYS. AND YEAH, IT'S THE CITY USE FOR THOSE. SO THOSE ARE THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS IS I'M NOT COMPLETELY AGAINST IT, BUT I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE.
BUT I REALLY DO LIKE THE IDEA OF NOT NOT JUST NECESSARILY THE MASTER PLAN BECAUSE THE MASTER PLAN HAD SOME THINGS IN THERE THAT WERE BIG WISHES AND LOTS OF MONEY. BUT WHAT WE REALLY SHOULD SAY IS FOR THE RODEO. WHAT WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THE YOU KNOW, IF WE PUT A CAMPGROUND IN, WHAT'S IT COST? WHAT'S THE WHAT'S IT GOING TO RETURN FOR US? WHAT DO WE GET IF WE DECIDE THAT WE WANT TO PUT A ROOF OVER THE RODEO ARENA? WHAT'S IT GOING TO COST AND WHAT'S IT AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT? IF WE EXPAND THE BLEACHERS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO? HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST AND WHAT ARE WE AND HOW MUCH ARE WE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT? I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE SOME GOOD COST BENEFIT AND SOME TRUE HARD NUMBERS AND DATA. AND THEN THE COUNCIL AND I WON'T BE ON THE COUNCIL AT THAT POINT IN TIME, BUT THEN THE COUNCIL CAN GO DOWN AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE WILLING TO SPEND SIX OH, WHAT? YOU KNOW WHAT? WE CAN DO THIS FOR EIGHT. AND THEN YOU START PICKING THE MENU AND THEN DECIDING WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM, HOW IT'S GOING TO BE PAID FOR, AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. BUT I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE ALMOST LIKE A MENU THAT, THAT THEN THE COUNCIL CAN PICK AND SAY, YEAH, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS AND WHY I PUT MY NAME ON IT IS TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE A RELATIVELY SIMPLE AND DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A INTO A LONG TERM MASTER PLAN. IT SEEMS LIKE A RELATIVELY SIMPLE THING THAT YOU CAN GO PUT IN FOR RELATIVELY CHEAP AND RELATIVELY QUICK TO START MONETIZING THE PROPERTY THAT'S SITTING OUT THERE AND NOT DOING. WHEN YOU SAY RELATIVELY CHEAP, WHAT WHAT DO YOU THINK THE COSTS ARE GOING TO BE? I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT IT'S NOT TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. I BET YOU'RE NOT.
EVEN IF IT'S 10 TO 12 GRAVEL PITS FROM 30 TO 50 FOOT LENGTH NEAR EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S ALREADY THERE. YOU'VE GOT DIRT. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE HOOKUPS. YEAH. WE PARKED TRAILERS OUT THERE FOR THE RODEO ALL OVER THE PLACE. YEAH, BUT YOU GOT TO PUT THE HOOKUPS AND RUN THE ELECTRICAL IN THE WATER AND THE SEWER. YEAH. YEP. AND TO MAKE THE ROADS AND AND THE PADS, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO MAKE ROADS AND PATHS. YOU CAN JUST MARK IT OUT ON THE
[01:50:01]
DIRT. YOU MARK IT OUT WITH STICKS AND TWINE. I MEAN, IT DOESN'T HAVE WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HARD. AND WE CAN SEE HOW IT CAN BE. I JUST SEE IT AS A RELATIVELY LOW COST, RELATIVELY, COMPARED TO PUTTING A ROOF OVER THE RODEO ARENA. YEAH, IT'S GOING TO BE CHEAPER THAN THAT. YEAH. SO RELATIVELY LOW COST, RELATIVELY QUICK. AND WHILE WE'RE DECIDING ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH, YOU KNOW, THE ENTIRE CITY AND THERE'S TOURISM, LOOK LIKE WE CAN ALSO LOOK INTO WHO KNOWS WHERE. MY ONLY COMMENT ON THAT AND KIND OF WHERE WITH CORBIN IS IT IS A VERY MIXED USE AREA. WE HAVE A RODEO, WE HAVE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, A LIBRARY, AN ART CENTER, A SWIMMING POOL, AND NOW WE HAVE CAMPGROUNDS, WHICH WE STILL CAN. BUT TO ME, THIS IS THE THE PROJECT YOU DON'T WANT TO DO, RIGHT. YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE IT DESIGNED SO THE CAMPERS WOULD FEEL LIKE THEY'RE CAMPING AND NOT PART OF THE ART CENTER OR PART OF THE SWIMMING POOL. ARTS PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE. THEY WOULDN'T JUST STARE AT CAMPGROUNDS AND CAMPERS BECAUSE YOU'LL HEAR. YOU'LL HEAR COMMENTS FROM OTHER USERS IN THEIR CAMPGROUND. SO TO ME, YOU WOULD WANT TO PLAN IT CORRECTLY, I THINK. I THINK THEY'D MUCH RATHER WOULD LOOK AT AN EMPTY STADIUM. THERE PROBABLY IS A LOT THAT WOULD. THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT THAT WOULD LOOK AT THAT. SO AND THAT ACTUALLY IS A HONESTLY HAVING A LIBRARY AND A POOL NEAR WHERE YOU'RE PARKING YOUR RV, THAT'S HUGE. THAT'S MASSIVE ENCLOSED POOL.CLOSED NINE MONTHS OF THE YEAR. SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE AND MAYBE YOU HAVE THE ANSWER, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE NET POSITIVE, THEN THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES THAT.
I'M THINKING OF SWIMMING POOLS. THE REASON THE COUNTY DOES SWIMMING POOLS IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY, THEY DRAW MONEY. SO IF YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT IN CALIFORNIA, THE COUNTY THAT'S DOING THESE RVS ON THE BEACH, SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY IN UTAH, IT MAKES ME WONDER IF IT REALLY IS PRIVATE SECTOR REC CENTERS. I DIDN'T SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THAT. I JUST WONDER IF IT REALLY DOES GENERATE ANY INCOME. RV PARKS YEAH THEY DO. WELL, THERE ARE PRIVATE ONES, BUT NOT MANY. WELL IT DOESN'T IF THERE'S A WEIRD THING ABOUT SALT LAKE COUNTY IS THEY'RE JUST IT'S AN ANOMALY THAT THERE ISN'T ENOUGH. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A STATE THING OR A COUNTY THING OF WHY THAT WAS SO DISREGARDED TO HAVE MORE CAMPGROUNDS, WAS IT THAT PEOPLE THAT WANT TO CAMP NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST JORDAN, THEY WANT TO CAMP IN OUR MOUNTAINS, THEY GO TO HEBER. WELL, THE MOUNTAINS CAN'T SUPPORT A LOT OF I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S WHY. BUT IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH. IF MY ONLY THOUGHT ON THIS AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING I'M AGAINST THIS, BUT IF RV PARKS WERE SOMETHING THAT WAS A NEED, THE PUBLIC SECTOR WOULD HAVE SAID, WE CAN MAKE MONEY OFF THIS AND WE'RE GOING TO BUILD THIS. I THINK IT COMES DOWN TO THE ZONING AND THE COUNTIES IS WHAT HAS BEEN PROHIBITIVE OF MORE, I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE PEOPLE APPROACH US TO REZONE EVERY SINGLE. YEAH. SO I DON'T KNOW, WE COULD PUT WE COULD PUT CAMPGROUNDS ON THAT WEIRD TRIANGLE. NO IT'S A IT'S A GOOD. THERE YOU GO. YEAH.
3.65 ACRES. OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR WOULD DO IT IF IT WERE PROFITABLE. YEAH I MEAN THAT'S A VALID POINT. BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUY PROPERTY TO DO IT. WE DON'T. YEAH. YEAH. BUT I'M JUST SAYING SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN NEAR THE AIRPORT, SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TRIED TO FIND A WAY TO DO THESE. ARE THESE ARE TOUGH TO TAKE IF THERE WAS A DEMAND. THAT'S WHY I WONDER IF PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WOULD WORK. BECAUSE THE. WE OWN THE LAND, THERE'D BE AT LEAST CITY LIKE LEASING TO ANYWAYS. IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD IN EXPLORING IT. YEAH. WELL DO WE WANT TO EXPLORE THIS OR DO WE WANT TO FUND A STUDY FOR THE RODEO GROUNDS SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS A PART OF THAT? YEAH, YEAH, THIS WOULD BE A PART OF THE STUDY. AND THEN WE COULD BASICALLY HAVE A LAUNDRY LIST OF WHAT WE COULD CHOOSE FROM, WHAT WE FELT FINANCIALLY. WE WERE GOES TO HOW MANY OF THE OTHER RODEO GROUNDS AROUND THE STATE HAVE. OH I HAD I ACTUALLY IF YOU KNOW THAT'S DIFFERENT COUNTY BLUFFDALE SALT LAKE BLUFFDALE THEY ALLOW RV ACCESS IN THE RODEO AND THEN IS THERE AN RV PARK? WELL, WE ALLOW IT.
NO, NOBODY NOBODY DOES. IN OUR COUNTY, SALT LAKE AND DRAPER, THEY REFER TO THE PRIVATES.
LEHIGH. I DIDN'T SEE LEHIGH ON THAT LIST. DOESN'T HAVE. SO WILL YOU INDICATE FOR ME IF YOU'RE OKAY TO EXPEND FUNDS FOR A STUDY SPECIFICALLY FOR THE RODEO GROUND AREA? YEAH. THE RODEO. RODEO COULD HAVE DONE THAT, THOUGH, WITH THE MASTER PLAN FOR THE FOR THE VETERANS.
IT WAS JUST FOR THE RODEO. IF YOU'LL REMEMBER, WHEN WE WERE TALKING MASTER PLAN, WE WE
[01:55:07]
DIDN'T TACKLE RODEO. IT JUST SHOWED US LOCATION, EVERYTHING AROUND IT. WE REDID PARTS OF THE RODEO ARENA HERE, BUT WE DIDN'T TACKLE ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS WE'VE HAD ABOUT HOOKUPS. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE WHO, AS WE SAID, IS AN EXPERT IN THAT KIND OF FIELD, NOT JUST PARKS IN GENERAL, BUT JUST THAT. RIGHT? LIKE, YEAH, IT'S VERY NICHE. IT IS, I SWEAR.OKAY, SO I HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER OR COUNCIL MEMBER, GREEN COUNCIL MEMBER, SHELTON COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK. NO, NO. COUNCIL MEMBER. BLOOM, WHERE ARE YOU? AS FAR AS A STUDY FOR THE RODEO GROUNDS, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE WHICH WOULD INCLUDE AN RV? YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, IF THAT'S THE WAY FORWARD. I'LL NEVER SAY YES. SO I HAVE FIVE YESES AND ONE NO AND ONE LOOKING TO SEE IF WE ALREADY DID IT. HOW MUCH IS THE STUDY? WE DON'T KNOW. $5 LESS THAN 30.
LET ME DO A LITTLE BIT OF HOMEWORK. I'LL COME BACK TO YOU WITH A PROPOSED BUDGET AMENDMENT THAT WILL SPEND 100. THAT'S THAT. BECAUSE THAT'S OBVIOUSLY THE NEXT STEP IS THAT THEY'VE GOT TO LOOK AT IT AND COME BACK, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO AMEND THE BUDGET.
RIGHT. AND IF IT'S $100,000, WE CAN SAY NO. IF IT'S IF IT'S $25,000, WE CAN SAY, YES, WE'RE CHRISTMAS LIGHTS 30. SO WE HAVE ENOUGH TO MOVE FORWARD WITH YOU LOOKING AT WHAT A STUDY WILL COST US. AND I HAVE I FEEL LIKE I HAVE CLEAR DIRECTION. THANK YOU. OKAY, SPONSORS, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD? NO. YOU WANT? I'M A MEMBER. OH, SORRY. WHAT? IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? NO, NO, NO, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE GROUNDS BECAUSE THAT DIDN'T COME UP IN
[ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS]
MY RESEARCH. I WAS LIKE, THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING. ALL RIGHT, THEN I AM GOING TO. OH, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU ONE MORE THING BEFORE I HIT THIS FOR OUR NEXT MEETING. RIGHT. IS IT THE NEXT ONE? YES. IS OUR NEXT ON THE 28TH. WOULD YOU PLEASE MEET AT THE MUSEUM? SO WE'RE GOING TO START AT THE MUSEUM AT 4:00. OKAY. WE'LL DO OUR TOUR OF THE MUSEUM WITH MR. DAWLEY, AND THEN WE WILL WALK BACK OVER HERE AND AND COMPLETE OUR WORK WILL BE A BUDDY SYSTEM. SO. IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO WALK, WE CAN TRANSPORT YOU THERE. MY BACK WILL BE BETTER BY THEN. OKAY.WE CAN PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION FOR THOSE WHO NEED THAT. THE MAYOR CAN GET US A GOLF CART.
SPANISH FORK DOES HAVE IT FOR THEIR RODEO. AND THE CHARGE? THE COWBOYS. COULD YOU USE THAT? NOBODY. ALL RIGHT. TO THOSE GOLF CARTS? NO. GENERAL PUBLIC. OKAY. GOT YOUR ANSWER? NO.
GENERAL PUBLIC. ALL RIGHT. WORK ME
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.