[00:00:02]
          PROGRESS FOR. ALL RIGHT. WELCOME, EVERYONE TO OUR COMMITTEE OF A WHOLE FOR 
          [CALL TO ORDER]
FEBRUARY 24TH, 2026. WE HAVE ALMOST ALL MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL HERE. COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK HAS BEEN EXCUSED TODAY, BUT WILL BE WITH US FOR OUR MAIN SESSION. WE ALSO HAVE IT'S A IT'S IT'S PACKING UP NOW AS WE GET PEOPLE COMING IN. AS WE GET STARTED, WE'RE GOING TO 
          [a.
 Discussion with Former Carmel, Indiana Mayor Jim Brainard]
BE HEARING FROM FORMER CARMEL, INDIANA MAYOR JIM BRAINARD, WHO HAS BEEN BROUGHT HERE ON THE BEHEST OF COUNCIL MEMBER KENT SHELTON. AND OUR OWN CORBIN LEE HAS JOINED IN AS WELL TO MAKE SURE THIS HAPPENS. SO, JIM, WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU SIT IN OUR LITTLE CHAIR OF HONOR THERE, AND WE'RE EXCITED TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. AND I'M SURE WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD GREAT THINGS ABOUT YOUR CITY. WELL THANK YOU. I CAN THOUGHT I'D JUST START BY TELLING OUR STORY AND HOPEFULLY IT'S HELPFUL TO YOU. NEVER WANT TO SUGGEST ANYBODY ELSE WHAT TO DO. BUT IF OUR MISTAKES OR WHAT WE GOT RIGHT IS HELPFUL. PERHAPS THAT IS THE WAY TO START. SO CARMEL AND WEST JORDAN HAVE A LOT IN COMMON IN THAT THEY WERE POSTWAR SUBURBS. IT CARMEL STARTED OUT AS THE ORIGINAL NAME WAS BETHLEHEM. IT'S THE POST OFFICE SAID IT HAD TO CHANGE ITS NAME AS THERE WERE TWO BETHLEHEMS IN INDIANA AROUND 1870. POST OFFICE CAUSING PROBLEMS AS USUAL AND. SO QUAKERS NAMED IT CARMEL, AND AT THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO WAS STILL ABOUT 500 PEOPLE. IT WAS A POOR AGRICULTURAL FARMING COMMUNITY NEAR INDIANAPOLIS, OUR STATE CAPITOL. TODAY IT'S 100. WHEN I BECAME MAYOR IN 1996, IT HAD ABOUT 25,000 PEOPLE, AND WHEN I LEFT OFFICE IT HAD ABOUT 110,000. SO WE GREW. WE ADDED ABOUT 140 CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS. THE COMMUTE USED TO BE JUST A BEDROOM COMMUNITY, AND THEY WERE THESE CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, AND WE ENTERED INTO OVER 90 PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS TO CREATE A DOWNTOWN WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE. SO IT STARTED. I WAS A LAWYER BY TRAINING A HISTORY MAJOR. UNDERGRAD, DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CITY PLANNING. SO WHAT I DID STARTED TO READ. BUT WHEN I WENT DOOR TO DOOR IN 1995 WHEN I WAS STANDING FOR MY FIRST ELECTION, I ASKED PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN THIS PLACE WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES, START THEIR BUSINESSES, SPEND THEIR LIVES WHAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE CHANGE ABOUT THE CITY. AND I HEARD OVER AND OVER THIS YEARNING FOR A TRADITIONAL CITY SAID IN A THOUSAND DIFFERENT WAYS. AND I THOUGHT, OKAY, WHAT? WHY DO WE BUILD OUR CITIES? WHY WHY AREN'T THEY BEAUTIFUL LIKE THEY USED TO BE IN OLD EUROPE AND THE EAST COAST OF THE US? HOW DO WE GET THERE AND WHAT HAVE WE DONE WRONG? SO STARTED TO STUDY IT AND I ALWAYS START MY PRESENTATIONS. YOU'RE SO LUCKY OUT HERE IN THE MOUNTAINS. HOW DO I GET THIS THING TO WORK? IT'S. THAT WAS. NO. OH, NO. 
          TURN IT ON. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. THANK YOU. SO THAT WAS OUR FAULT. YOU'RE FINE. THIS IS MOUNT CARMEL, INDIANA. NOPE. NEITHER IS THAT. CARMEL, INDIANA. IT HAPPENS TO BE ASPEN. 
          I SHOULD REPLACE IT WITH PARK CITY OR SOMETHING. THAT'S TRUE. THAT IS NOT CARMEL, INDIANA. 
          THIS, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS OUR PALETTE. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH. AND THEN I POINT OUT TO PEOPLE THAT THESE FOLKS HAD THE SAME PALETTE LOUSY WEATHER, NO MOUNTAINS AND NO OCEANS, AND THEY DID JUST FINE. I'M TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. SO THERE WE ARE NEXT. INDIANAPOLIS 2 MILLION METROPOLITAN AREA. WE'RE THE LARGEST SUBURB. 
          THERE'S ANOTHER ONE NEXT DOOR IS FISHERS, ABOUT THE SAME SIZE, THREE HOURS FROM CHICAGO. THIS IS NOT CARMEL EITHER, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BUILT IN THIS COUNTRY. IS THAT IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE AI. YEAH, BECAUSE WHERE WOULD YOU EVER HAVE THE THREE BIG BOX STORES RIGHT NOW? WHY? SO ANYBODY HERE WANT TO GO ON A ROMANTIC WALK WITH YOUR SPOUSE PAST THAT PROBABLY WOULDN'T GO OVER TOO WELL. THE CAR HOW DO YOU GET PEOPLE TO WALK? HAS TO BE SAFE. HAS TO BE A REASON SOMEWHERE TO GO TO. BESIDES, JUST GO OUT FOR A WALK. HAS TO BE COMFORTABLE, SAFE AND INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, KIDS DON'T PLAY OUTSIDE ANYMORE. WELL, WHY 
          [00:05:01]
DON'T THEY? BECAUSE THIS IS THE OUTSIDE WE BUILT FOR THEM TO PLAY IN. WE CAN DO BETTER AS A COUNTRY. WE THOUGHT AS A CITY. I MEAN, LOOK AT THAT. YOU CAN'T WALK THERE OR THERE. YOU CAN ONLY GET THERE BY CAR BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE SOUTHTOWN MALL. IT'S IT'S JUST A SHOPPING MALL. 
          AND THAT PROBABLY $20 BILLION OF CONCRETE, WHICH WILL HAVE TO BE REPLACED ABOUT EVERY 30, 35 YEARS. AGAIN, WE CAN DO WE'RE SMARTER THAN THIS. WE CAN DO BETTER. THE AVERAGE AMERICAN STILL SPENDING TWO HOURS A DAY IN THEIR CAR. THAT MEANS SOME AMERICANS ARE SPENDING, IF THAT'S AN AVERAGE, OR SPENDING MORE THAN TWO HOURS A DAY IN THEIR CAR. THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITES. AND THERE'S THAT. I'D LIKE TO TALK TO THE CIVIL ENGINEER THAT DESIGNED THAT FOR YOU. NOT THEN THERE'S THAT, YOU KNOW, SINGLE USE ZONING. ALL HOUSES. IS THAT WEST JORDAN? NO, THAT'S EAGLE MOUNTAIN, NO WHERE TO WALK. IT'S LIKE PHOENIX ADMINISTRATION, LIKE. WOW. 
          NOWHERE TO WALK TO. YOU HAVE TO DRIVE ANYWHERE YOU GO. THAT'S FINE. AND THINK ABOUT SINGLE USE ZONING VERSUS MULTI USE FOR A MINUTE, LET'S SAY A GROCERY STORE. I WAS TOLD THIS BY A GROCERY ONCE REQUIRES 7000 FAMILIES TO BE SUCCESSFUL TO MAKE MONEY. SO IF THE AVERAGE PERSON IS DRIVING TEN MILES TO AND FROM THAT GROCERY STORE TIMES 7000, THAT'S 20 MILES ONCE A WEEK. TIMES, DO THE MATH. 100,000 ROAD MILES. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, IF EVERYBODY LIVED WITHIN A MILE OR TWO MILES, THAT GROCERY STORE, MAYBE IT'S 14,000, PROBABLY 100,000 MILES. 
          THEY NEED TO TAKE THAT TIME TO DRY CLEANERS AND THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE, THE HOSPITAL AND THE LIBRARY AND THE SCHOOLS. IT'S WHY THE SINGLE USE ZONING THAT WE STARTED MADE SENSE BACK IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY, WHEN WE HAD NOXIOUS FACTORY FUMES THAT KILLED PEOPLE TO SEPARATE IT. 
          BUT TODAY IT REALLY DOESN'T. THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES. THIS IS HOW WE THINK ABOUT WALKING IN THE UNITED STATES. THINK ABOUT IT. THESE YOUNG MEN ARE PAYING MONEY, A MONTHLY FEE TO GO GET ON A STAIRMASTER. BUT YET THEY WALK. THEY TAKE THE ESCALATOR TO GET THERE AS OPPOSED TO WALKING UP THE STAIRS. THIS IS THIS IS MINDSET THAT WE HAVE ABOUT WALKABILITY. 
          THERE'S KAMAL, SAY TWO. CLICKER DAILY BIG STATE HIGHWAY. THIS IS THE OUTER BELT OF INDIANAPOLIS. THIS IS NORTH. INDIANAPOLIS IS OUR SOUTH. THIS IS OUR RAIL TO TRAIL PROJECT WHICH IS MANY WAYS OUR MAIN STREET. AND THIS IS USED TO BE A STATE ROAD WHICH IS NOW OUR ROAD. SO WE STARTED LET ME FINISH HERE. THE ART AND DESIGN DISTRICT. UP HERE WAS THE OLD TOWN, ABOUT A FOUR BLOCK 19TH CENTURY DOWNTOWN, BASICALLY EMPTY, FALLING DOWN HOUSES AND WAREHOUSES, VERY POOR. THE QUAKERS DIDN'T BUILD VERY FANCY HOUSES. THEY BELIEVED IN PLAIN AND SIMPLE THINGS. AND THEN OUR CITY CENTERS, OUR NEXT BIG REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT. IT WAS 88 ACRES, BASICALLY ABANDONED BUILDINGS AND RAW LAND. AND THEN THIS IS AN OLD INDUSTRIAL AREA CALLED MIDTOWN. AND MOST OF THOSE FACTORIES LEFT AND RELOCATED AND WE REDEVELOPED THAT AREA. SO NOW ALL THREE AREAS ARE COMBINED, AND WE'RE GOING TO WALK THROUGH HOW WE HOW WE DID THAT REDEVELOPMENT. SO START THE ART AND DESIGN DISTRICT AT THE TOP. THERE'S OUR FIRST PROJECT, TORE DOWN THE OLD BUILDINGS, WAREHOUSE BUILDINGS. GOT A DEVELOPER TO BUILD IT. WE BOUGHT THE LAND, ENTERED INTO A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP USE TAX INCREMENT FINANCING, WHICH YOU SET A BASE HERE. AND THE ANTICIPATED REVENUE THEN GOES TOWARDS THE DEBT SERVICE FOR THE COST OF THE PROJECT. PART OF THE COST OF THE PROJECT, BECAUSE THESE ARE COMPLICATED, MIXED USES, MUCH HARDER FOR DEVELOPER TO BUILD THAN SINGLE USE BUILDINGS. 
          SO THESE ARE APARTMENTS ABOVE. WE'RE A WEALTHY COMMUNITY. WE NEEDED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. 
          YOU KNOW THE WAITER OR WAITRESS IN THE RESTAURANT. WE WANTED THEM TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN OUR CITY, TO NOT HAVE TO COMMUTE LONG DISTANCES. SO THESE ARE NICE APARTMENTS WITH RESTAURANTS AND GROUND FLOOR RETAIL BELOW. THAT WAS OUR FIRST PROJECT. BOTH THE RETAIL AND THE APARTMENTS LEASED UP WITHIN WEEKS. THERE'S ANOTHER ONE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. THERE'S THE BEFORE AND THE AFTER. NOW THE BUILDING HAS. WE NEVER WENT OVER FIVE STOREYS. 
          WE WANTED TO KEEP IT AT WHAT I CALL GENTLE DENSITY, GOING OVER FIVE STORIES. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES CHANGE. IT'S HARDER TO MAKE THE WHOLE 
          [00:10:03]
PROCESS WORK FINANCIALLY. BUT HERE WE USE TAX FINANCING TO PUT A TWO LEVEL UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE UNDERNEATH THAT BUILDING AND THE LOWER SLIDE, AND THERE'S A CENTER, BEAUTIFUL COURTYARD AS WELL, SO YOU CAN DOUBLE LOAD THE HALLWAYS AND NOT JUST BE LOOKING AT A PARKING GARAGE IN THE MIDDLE. THERE'S ANOTHER ONE. YOU SEE AN ABANDONED OLD BUILDINGS REPLACED BY THE INDIANA DESIGN CENTER WITH 80 DESIGN RELATED BUSINESSES. YOU'RE BUILDING A HOUSE OR REDECORATING AN OFFICE OR A HOUSE. YOU HAVE 80 DIFFERENT VENDORS UNDER ONE ROOF, AND THAT BUILDING HAS 120 UNDERGROUND SPACES. GETTING THE CARS UNDERGROUND OR INTO GARAGES IS KEY. IT'S IMPORTANT TO FACE THE GARAGES, JUST NOT HAVE A PARKING GARAGE THERE, WE THOUGHT. BUT FACE THEM WITH LINER BUILDING SO IT'S AN INTERESTING WALK. THERE'S OUR ART AND DESIGN DISTRICT, JUST LIKE THE KID IN THE BACK SEAT, YOU KNOW. ARE WE THERE YET? WE WANT TO PUT UP THESE ARCHWAYS. SO PEOPLE ACTUALLY KNEW FROM OUT OF TOWN THAT THEY WERE NOW IN THE DESIGN DISTRICT. WE DID THOSE LOGOS TO SAY ART, PUT THEM ON ALL THE LAMPPOSTS. WE DIDN'T USE BANNERS BECAUSE OF THE SUN DESTROYING THE BANNERS, SO MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE TO DO. 
          THE METAL LOGO CIRCLES. WE BUILT ABOUT 256 MILES ABOVE THE CURB BYPASS IN THE CITY AND OUR COLLECTOR ROADS. SO YOU HAD THE CURB WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS. HERE WE DO A TEN FOOT 12 FOOT BIKE PATH. ASPHALT. CERTAIN PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, REALLY LIKE TO WRITE OUT THE ROAD. WE'LL STILL DO THAT. BUT FAMILIES REALLY LIKE BEING SAFE AWAY FROM THE CARS, I THINK. SO WE DIDN'T PUT THEM ON THE PAVEMENT ITSELF IN MOST CASES, VERY FEW CASES, BUT ABOVE THE CURB, OFF TO THE SIDE. THIS IS OUR RAIL TO TRAIL PROJECT. YOU SEE HERE THERE'S THE SAME BUILDING. 
          THERE'S A CENTER COURTYARD, BEAUTIFUL PUBLIC FOUNTAIN, PLAZA, AND PEOPLE FROM THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX AND CONDOS AND APARTMENTS WILL COME AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, AND YES. DO YOU WANT QUESTIONS AS YOU GO OR DO YOU WANT. SURE. I'M JUST CURIOUS, IF YOU LIKE, IN YOUR ORDINANCE CODE CODIFIED LIKE ABOVE THE CURB BIKE PATHS OR CAN WE JUST DO THAT? OKAY. WE HAVE A WE HAVE A TRANSPORTATION PLAN. I THINK IT'S IN THERE. OKAY. BUT IT GOT PUT IN AFTER WE HAD DONE QUITE A BIT OF IT. OKAY. I THOUGHT YOU WOULD ASK IF THAT WAS THE. YEAH, WE WERE IN A HURRY. WE WERE GROWING SO FAST. WHERE'D YOU GET THAT? AND IF I WERE TO DO IT AGAIN, THEN I PROBABLY WOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO GETTING THINGS IN THE CODE. WE JUST WENT AHEAD. 
          WE'RE GROWING SO QUICKLY. WE'RE FOCUSED ON GETTING IT DONE RIGHT, NOT GETTING THE CODE RIGHT. NOW. WITH THAT, WHEN YOU SAY WE DID YOU WORK WITH THE COUNCIL ON THAT OR. YEAH. SO WE HAVE A STRONG MAYOR SYSTEM, MUCH LIKE YOU IN INDIANA. WE DIDN'T HAVE A CITY ADMINISTRATOR. THE ELECTED MAYOR DOESN'T HIRE AND FIRE THE DEPARTMENT HEADS. WE HAD VERY LITTLE TURNOVER. AND I SUBMIT THE BUDGET TO THE CITY COUNCIL EVERY YEAR. AND ONCE THEY'RE APPROVED, I CAN EITHER SPEND THE MONEY OR NOT SPEND THE MONEY. AND HOW THE CITY'S RUN IN INDIANA, ALL THE CONTRACTS, EVERY CONTRACT HAS TO BE SIGNED BY THE MAYOR. WE ALWAYS DID IT IN PUBLIC AND IT REQUIRED TO. BUT I ALWAYS GET SOMETHING CALLED THE BOARD OF WORKS, WHICH HANDLES RIGHT OF WAY PERMITS AND THINGS APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR. THREE MEMBERS, INCLUDING THE MAYOR, THE ONE MAYOR, TWO APPOINTEES. AND SO I TOOK ALL THE CONTRACTS AND SIGNED THEM IN PUBLIC. SO THERE WAS TRANSPARENCY BUT NOT REQUIREMENT UNDER ANY LAW. SO THAT'S OUR SYSTEM. NOW THAT WE HAD A SEVEN MEMBER COUNCIL FOR 20 OF THE 30 YEARS, AND WE WENT TO A NINE MEMBER COUNCIL, AS OUR POPULATION GREW AGAIN UNDER A STATE STATUTE. ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. THERE'S OUR MAIN CORONER AGAIN IN THE ART AND DESIGN DISTRICT BEFORE AND AFTER THESE BUILDINGS DOWN HERE. WE REQUIRED THE DEVELOPER THAT WE DID THE PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WITH TO SELL OFF TWO, THREE, 4 OR 5 OF THOSE TO SMALL BUSINESSES. SO JUST THE BIG DEVELOPERS WEREN'T PROFITING FROM IT. AND LOCAL BUSINESS OWNERS BOUGHT THOSE LIVE WORK UNITS. SOME OF THEM ACTUALLY LIVE ABOVE THEM AND OPERATE A STORE. ON THE BOTTOM THERE'S OUR OLD TOWN AREA. WE PUT AN OVERLAY ORDINANCE IN PLACE SO THAT THE NEW HOUSES HAVE TO LOOK LIKE THE OLD HOUSES. SO THERE'S THAT HOUSE. IT'S PROBABLY CLOSE TO 100 YEARS OLD. THAT IS PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR YEARS OLD. YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE UNTIL SOMEBODY POINTS IT OUT TO YOU. THERE'S OUR MAIN CORNER AGAIN. THAT WILL BE THE LAST 
          [00:15:06]
REMAINING TRAFFIC LIGHT. THAT ONE WON'T GET SWITCHED OUT. HERE'S OUR TRAIL. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON IT. EVEN IN THE WINTER, WE'LL HAVE HUNDREDS ON IT EVERY DAY. PEOPLE EXERCISING OR GOING TO WORK. SO THAT'S ONE OF OUR BUILDINGS IN THE CITY CENTER. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT MEMBER, PROPERTY TAXES PAID PER SQUARE FOOT. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A 20,000 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING SURROUNDED BY SURFACE PARKING. INSTEAD, IT'S FIVE 20,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDINGS FOR 100,000FT■!S, WITH TWO TWO UNDERGROUND PARKING LEVELS. SO A LOT MORE DENSITY, WHICH HELPS THE STORES IN THE VICINITY. BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN WALK TO LUNCH, THEY CAN WALK TO MEET FRIENDS AFTER WORK AND THAT SORT OF THING. THERE'S ANOTHER THE TOP, AN APARTMENT BUILDING, GROUND FLOOR, RETAIL, THREE STORIES, GENERAL DENSITY, UNDERGROUND PARKING. THAT'S AN APARTMENT BUILDING WHEN YOU DO THE PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP. 
          WHEN WE DID THE PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS, WE PAID A LOT OF ATTENTION TO ARCHITECTURE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING SOME THINGS TO THE DEVELOPER, BUT THE TAXPAYERS DESERVE TO HAVE SOME THINGS DONE FOR THEM, TOO, IN TERMS OF BETTER ARCHITECTURE. AND SO WE'D SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. GO BACK. WE WANT TO TALK TO YOUR ARCHITECT, BRING THEM IN FOR A MEETING. WE WOULD HAVE WE WOULD HIRE AN ARCHITECT TO SIT THERE AND SAY, TRY THIS, TRY THAT. 
          AND IT WAS A PROCESS OF NEGOTIATION TO GET IT RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT LIKE THAT. 
          I HATE ABOUT SALT LAKE COUNTY IN GENERAL IS THERE'S NO STREET PARKING THERE IN UTAH. OH THERE IS OH, IS THERE STREET PARKING? THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN EARLY IN THE MORNING, I THINK, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES DAYBREAK IS AN EXAMPLE HERE. YOU KNOW, DAYBREAK IS I WAS THERE YESTERDAY JUST THERE'S NO PARKING. AND SO ALL THE STREETS ARE FILLED PARKING. SO YOU'VE GOT CARS ON THIS SIDE, CARS ON THIS SIDE AND ONLY ONE WAY THROUGH ON THAT SIDE. SO, SO STREET, STREET PARKING. THE DATA WILL SHOW THE PEDESTRIANS ARE MORE FRIENDLY OR MORE COMFORTABLE. IF THERE'S PARKING, IF THEY'RE IN A SPACE ON THAT SIDEWALK BETWEEN A BUILDING PROTECTING THEM ON ONE SIDE AND A CAR PROTECTING THEM FROM THE MOVING CARS ON THE OTHER SIDE, PEDESTRIANS WILL ACTUALLY GRAVITATE, ACCORDING TO THE STUDIES, TO A PLACE WHERE THEY'RE PROTECTED IN THAT SORT OF SAFE SPACE. IT'S ALSO TRAFFIC CALMING. IT'S ALSO A TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURE. IT'S ALL ABOUT SLOWING THE CARS DOWN, BUT NOT REDUCING TRIP TIMES TOO MUCH. I'LL GET INTO THAT WITH ROUNDABOUTS A LITTLE. AGAIN, SAY WE MOVE THE BUILDINGS UP TO THE STREET, TOWNHOMES ON THE RIGHT. THERE'S NEVER BEEN TOWNHOMES BUILT IN OUR CITY UNTIL WE STARTED DOING IT. NOW THERE'S HUNDREDS OF THEM. BUT IF YOU BELIEVE IN LIMITED GOVERNMENT AND I DO, WHY SHOULD GOVERNMENT BE TELLING PEOPLE? SO WE'RE IN THE POSITION, THE BEGINNING. WE WANT YOU TO MOVE TO OUR CITY, BUT YOU CAN ONLY LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH A BIG YARD. 
          THAT'S THE ONLY OPTION YOU HAVE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE OPTIONS FOR APARTMENTS, CONDOS AND TOWNHOMES. PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT POINTS OF THEIR LIVES WANT DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          EVERYBODY DOESN'T WANT A YARD, BUT GIVE THEM THE OPTIONS TO CHOOSE. SO THAT'S HOW WE TALKED ABOUT DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES. WE THINK WE'RE A STRONGER CITY. YOU KNOW, I WAS TALKING TO A GUY FROM NEW YORK ONCE WHO MOVED TO CARMEL, AND HE WAS I WAS WALKING MY DOG EARLY IN THE MORNING. HE WAS I DIDN'T KNOW THE GUY. HE WAS ABOUT THREE BLOCKS AWAY FROM MY HOUSE, AND HE WAS LOOKING AT THIS LAWNMOWER. HE STILL HAD THE TAGS ON IT. AND I SAID TO HIM, I SAID, BRAND NEW LAWNMOWER. AND HE ANSWERED THIS HEAVY BROOKLYN ACCENT. AND I SAID, HAVE YOU EVER USED ONE OF THOSE THINGS BEFORE? I'VE BEEN TO BROOKLYN OR IN THE YARDS. AND HE SAID, NO, I SAID, YOU PUT OIL IN IT. HE SAID, HOW DO I DO THAT? SO I SHOWED HIM. I SHOWED HIM HOW TO PUT THE GAS IN. I SHOWED HIM HOW TO KEEP HIS HANDS AWAY FROM THE BLADE. AND I THINK I THINK WE HAD THE SAFETY'S BY THEN. BUT ANYWAY. AND WE GOT TO BE FRIENDS. HE LOVED OUR CITY. HE LOVED CARMEL. HE LOVED LIVING IN THE MIDWEST, LOVE BEING OUT IN NEW YORK. BUT HE HAD LITTLE KIDS. AND ABOUT 15 YEARS LATER, SO SAME, DIFFERENT DOG. BUT I WAS STILL WALKING THAT WAY AND SAW HIM ONE DAY AND HIS HOUSE WAS UP FOR SALE. AND I SAID, YOU'RE NOT GOING BACK TO NEW YORK? HE SAID, OH, NO, I'LL NEVER GO BACK TO NEW YORK. BUT WHAT I'M DOING, I'M GOING INTO ONE OF YOUR TOWNHOMES, BECAUSE THIS GRASS THING THAT WE HAVE, I JUST DON'T LIKE IT. AND THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW. SO I THINK YOU'RE A STRONGER COMMUNITY IF YOU HAVE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE. THERE'S MAYOR REIMAN, ONE OF OUR MAYOR, FROM 80 TO 88 DOWN IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT, RIGHT IN ONE OF OUR BIKE SHARES. WE GOT THE TRICYCLES FOR ELDERLY PEOPLE AND FOR KIDS THAT MAYBE AUTISTIC AND CAN'T DO TWO WHEEL BIKES AND BIKE SHARE HAS BEEN A GREAT THING FOR OUR CITY. WE'VE PAID ATTENTION TO LITTLE TINY PARKS, URBAN PARKS IN OUR DOWNTOWN AREAS. WE TOOK AWAY A COUPLE PARKING SPACES HERE ON THE MAIN 
          [00:20:07]
STREET AND ADDED THE OUTDOOR DINING IS THE SIDEWALK WASN'T THAT WIDE, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT MUCH PARKING TO DO THAT DID A LOT OF PUBLIC SCULPTURE. WE DONATED 1% OF OUR CITY REVENUES TO THE ARTS TOTAL REVENUES, AND WE'VE HAD ABOUT 85 PIECES OF PUBLIC SCULPTURE. 
          WE DIDN'T PUT THEM IN THE SCULPTURE PARK. WE PUT THEM OUT ALL THROUGH THE COMMUNITY SO PEOPLE CAN INTERACT WITH THEM EVERY DAY. THAT'S A BIG NUMBER. GENERAL FUND. YOU'D BE LOOKING AT ONLY ONE PENNY OUT OF EVERY DOLLAR. ISN'T THAT WORTH THE ASKING? WHAT WERE YOU SAYING, ZACH? THE GENERAL FUND WILL BE IF IT WAS OF THE GENERAL FUND. NOT NOT THE CONSOLIDATED BUDGET, BUT JUST THE GENERAL FUND. 700 TO $800,000. THE REST OF THE STORY IS INITIALLY FOR TEN YEARS WE DID AN ALL CITY REVENUES. THEN THE COUNCIL CUT IT BACK TO GENERAL FUND ONLY THAT WAS ALL. I WAS ARGUING FOR THE ENTIRE BUDGET. RIGHT. WE DID OTHER THINGS FOR THE ARTS. 
          I'LL GET INTO. THERE WERE SOME OF OUR SCULPTURE. THESE BRONZE PAINTED BRONZES ARE SO POPULAR. 
          YOU KNOW, THE ART CRITICS WILL SAY IT'S NOT HIGH ART, BUT TAXPAYERS CITIZENS WILL LOVE IT. 
          THERE'S THOUSANDS OF SELFIES. YOU KNOW, THESE WOMEN I SAW THE OTHER DAY, SHE HAD A COLTS JERSEY ON. HER GROCERY BAGS. SOMEBODY HAD PUT ON HER. IT WAS GOING TO SNOW ONE DAY, AND I SAW THEIR LITTLE GIRL HAD A STOCKING CAP ON ON THE BIKE. AND PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF FUN WITH IT. THERE'S OUR CITY HALL, 4TH OF JULY. WE'RE ABOUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. 
          WE HAVE FOUR VENUES LIKE THAT, ALL WITHIN ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS GOING AT THE SAME TIME. SO JAPANESE SISTER CITY GARDEN BEHIND CITY HALL, AND THERE'S OUR CITY CENTER IS OVER 50MI■!S. 
          YOU'RE 35MI■!S. I WAS TOLD 50MIS DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE ISLAND OF MANHATTAN IN NEW YORK. SO WE KNEW THAT LITTLE DOWNTOWN AREA THAT'S THE ART AND DESIGN DISTRICT WASN'T BIG ENOUGH TO BE A DOWNTOWN. AND SO WE BOUGHT THERE'S AN ABANDONED KROGER GROCERY STORE AT THE TOP. 
          BECAME WHAT YOU SEE AT THE BOTTOM. INDIANAPOLIS AND INVESTED OUR NEIGHBOR. WE SHARE A STREET, TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY AND AMATEUR AND PROFESSIONAL SPORTS AND SPORTS GOVERNING ORGANIZATIONS, THE OLYMPICS. SO WE DECIDED THEY'D UNDERINVESTED IN THE ARTS. SO WE THOUGHT WE'D FILL THAT NICHE WITHOUT DIRECT COMPETITION. SO WE BUILT THIS CONCERT HALL ON THE BOTTOM TO OPEN IN 2011. TODAY, IT'D BE ABOUT A $400 MILLION PROJECT. IT'S A TRUE CONCERT HALL, NOT A THEATER WITH IT. WE BOUGHT TWO THEATERS ACROSS THE MALL, BUT IT'S INSPIRED BY PALLADIO'S VILLA IN VICENZA, ITALY, OUTSIDE OF VENICE. WE BUILT THIS HOTEL ON THE TRAIL. COULDN'T GET THE PRIVATE SECRETARY TO DO IT. OUR COURT. WE HAVE 150 CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS NOW. THE CEOS ARE SAYING WE WANT A REALLY HIGH LEVEL HOTEL IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. I WANTED IT TO BE THE COMMUNITY LIVING ROOM, WHICH HAS BECOME WE PUT IT RIGHT ON THE TRAIL YOU GET TO DRIVE TO, YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE OTHER SIDE. IT'S A MARRIOTT. 
          AUTOGRAPH COLLECTION HOTEL AND IT'S THE PRIVATE SECTOR PARTNER OWNS THE LAND, BUT EVEN THE HOTEL DEVELOPER US A FAVOR AND THEN A CDC, A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION OWNS THE BUILDING AND THE CITY TAXPAYERS ARE ENTITLED TO 75% OF THE NET REVENUES FOR THE FIRST TEN YEARS. THEN IT GOES TO 50 OVER 50 IN PERPETUITY. HOTELS, I THINK, RANKED SECOND OR THIRD IN THE MARRIOTT AUTOGRAPH COLLECTION FOR OCCUPANCY. SO IT WORKED. ALL THE PRIVATE SECTOR GUYS TURNED US DOWN AND NOW TRYING TO BUY THE CITY SHARE, WE TOLD THE TAXPAYERS MAKE SOME MONEY. SO THERE'S OUR MAIN HALL. YOU SEE THE CONCERT HALL OFF TO THE RIGHT WITH THE COLUMNS. THE BUILDING ON THE LEFT IS INTERESTING. THAT HAS TWO THEATERS IN IT, A COUPLE SMALL PRIVATE OFFICES. CITY OWNS IT, BUT WHAT IT HIDES IS AN 800 SPACE PUBLIC PARKING GARAGE. SO PEOPLE COME TO THE CONCERT, THEY COME TO THAT FARMER'S MARKET, OR THEY COME TO OUR WINTER CRISP AND OTHER GERMAN CHRISTMAS MARKET. HE ALSO SAY IN THE BACK WE HAVE A VETERANS MEMORIAL WHERE THE FLAGS ARE RIGHT BY THE WATER. THERE'S A SCULPTURE THERE TOO, A MAN AND A WOMAN IN UNIFORM LIFTING A FLAG. SO VETERANS MEMORIAL, IS THAT A MAN MADE WATER THING THERE? YEAH, IT'S ONLY 12IN, 14IN DEEP. I THINK WE HAVE NO WATER IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, AS WELL AS NO MOUNTAINS. I LIKE IT, SO WE HAD TO. WE'RE GOING TO COMPETE. WE HAD TO MAKE SURE THE CITY WAS WORKING BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THESE OPPORTUNITIES. 
          IT'S GREAT. AND THERE'S OUR THERE IT IS IN WINTER. THAT'S THE CHRIS KENDALL MARK. IT'S ONLY SEVEN YEARS OLD. USA READER'S POLL NAMED IT THE BEST IN THE STATES FOR THE LAST SIX 
          [00:25:01]
YEARS, ICE SKATING ABOUT 80 HUTS, ALL AUTHENTIC GERMAN CHRISTMAS FOODS AND CHOCOLATES. 
          HOW LONG IS IT OPEN FOR? WE OPEN THE. SO WE GET THANKSGIVING CROWD VISITORS. WE OPEN THE THE SATURDAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING AT NOON AND GOES UNTIL CHRISTMAS EVE AT NOON. 
          WOW. THAT'S GREAT 500 000 PEOPLE LAST YEAR. YEAH, THE PROBLEM IS TOO MANY PEOPLE. ONE HERE GOES FOR FOUR DAYS. SO IT'S INSANE AND IT'S INSANE. SO WE SET THIS UP AS A 500 1C3 AND THEN THE CITY GAVE IT A GRANT. WE COULD KIND OF CONTROL THE BOARD OF THE 500 1C3. BUT WE DO THESE PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS. YOU KNOW, WE GET DONATIONS AND SPONSORSHIPS. 
          IT'S EASY TO RUN, EASIER TO RUN THEM THROUGH A NOT FOR PROFIT PRIVATE CORP THAN THE CITY. 
          THERE IT IS. THERE'S OUR NEW DOWNTOWN IN THE WINTER CONCERT HALL ON THE LEFT. HOTEL BEHIND IT. THAT'S HALF OF IT. THE REFLECTING POOL AREA YOU SEE IS LOOKING THE OTHER WAY. THE BUILDING ON THE RIGHT AGAIN IS THE ONE HIDING THE PARKING DECK. THERE IT IS BEFORE AND AFTER. 
          THAT'S WHAT WE STARTED WITH. THAT PICTURE WAS PROBABLY THE ROAD IS, I THINK, UNDER CONSTRUCTION. SO IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 19, LATE 96, EARLY 97, PROBABLY SPRING OF 97 OR BEFORE IS RIGHT OUT THERE. YEAH. WE KEEP WE KEEP LOOKING OUT RIGHT THERE. THAT'S OUR BEFORE I SAW YOUR RODEO GROUNDS YESTERDAY AND IT OCCURRED TO ME, I WONDER IF YOU COULD REDO THE RODEO GROUNDS AND MAKE THEM INTO LIKE, AN AMPHITHEATER. IT COULD BE USED THE REST OF THE YEAR AND BUILD YOUR VILLAGE THERE, TOO. THAT'S WHAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT. WHAT A GREAT IDEA. 
          SO THEN WE SAW THE TWO THE OLD TOWN, THE NEW CITY CENTER, AND THEN THIS AREA BETWEEN WE CALLED MIDTOWN. THERE WAS A PUBLIC PLAZA WE BUILT WITH PING PONG TABLES, LITTLE STAGE. 
          THERE'S A BIG SCREEN TV AT THE BOTTOM. YOU'RE LOOKING THE OTHER WAY. YOU CAN'T SEE THE GRASS IN THE MIDDLE. WE ACTUALLY HAD TO TAKE IT OUT AND PUT IN. AFTER THREE YEARS OF TRYING TO GROW GRASS, WE GAVE UP AND PUT ARTIFICIAL TURF IN BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE THERE. THIS IS HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE. EVERY DAY WE HAVE OUTDOOR PING PONG TABLES, POOL TABLES. YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF GAMES FOR KIDS. AND THEY'RE OFF TO THE LEFT, YOU SEE NEW MOON ON BOULEVARD, WHICH IS. THIS IS THE BIKE PATH. THERE'S A WALKING PATH HERE. SO MANY PEOPLE ON IT. THIS IS A CAR STREET. THIS CAR STREET IS ONLY ABOUT NINE FEET, FOUR INCHES WIDE. YOU'LL SEE A SIGN THERE THAT SAYS 20MPH. OUR CITY ENGINEER PUT THAT UP, AND I ASKED HIM TO TAKE DOWN ALL THE SPEED LIMIT SIGNS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T NEED THEM. NOBODY SAW ONLY NINE FEET WIDE. WE PURPOSELY BUILT IT AT THAT WIDTH SO THAT CARS WOULDN'T GO FAST AND PEDESTRIANS WOULD BE IN CHARGE. THERE'S KIDS RUNNING ALL OVER THAT AREA, AND WE WANTED CARS TO BE AWARE OF THAT. SO WE MADE IT VERY WE DIDN'T WANT TO CLOSE OFF THE ROAD, BUT, YOU KNOW, ADA ISSUES AND BAD WEATHER, BUT YOU'LL SEE TEN PEOPLE FOR EVERY CAR IN THIS AREA. THERE'S SOME OF THE PING PONG TABLES IN THE PLAZA. AND THERE'S THE TRAIL. CAN YOU SEE THE CAR ROAD OFF TO THE LEFT? THE RED BRICK. IT'S NOT NEARLY AS WIDE. THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE MATH FOR TIFF AND WHY PARKING LOTS NEED TO GO AWAY, AND THEY NEED TO BE IN STRUCTURES. 10,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING, 30,000 SQUARE FOOT PARKING LOT. PARKING LOTS DON'T PAY MUCH IN PROPERTY TAX, SO WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN UNDER INDIANA'S SYSTEM 20,000. SAME AMOUNT OF SPACE WITH UNDERGROUND PARKING, 200,000FT■, FIVE STORY BUILDING BUILT ON THE ENTIRE SITE WITH UNDERGROUND PARKING $400,000. SO I'VE BEEN WORKING A LOT ON MATH CITIES. WE FIGURED OUT THAT DOING THE RESEARCH FACULTY AT THE SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE AT UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME IN INDIANA, AND WE'RE DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THE COST OF SPRAWL AND AND HEALTH IMPACTS AND OTHER THINGS. BUT THE COST CITIES THAT DON'T HAVE AT LEAST SOME GENERAL DENSITY IN THE MIDDLE ARE GOING TO BE FOREVER OUT OF MONEY. IT JUST IT JUST DOESN'T PENCIL, YOU KNOW, ON A TWO LANE ROAD COSTS $14 MILLION FROM SCRATCH. AND THEN THERE'S FIRE $4 MILLION A YEAR TO STAFF YOUR FIRE STATION. DOES A CITY LIKE CARMEL HAVE FOUR STATIONS OR 12, EIGHT TIMES 4 MILLION A YEAR? THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY YOU NEED. SO WE TRIED TO THINK ABOUT THOSE THINGS AS WE DESIGNED OUR DOWNTOWN. THERE'S THIS BUILDING. THERE'S A GOOD 
          [00:30:04]
EXAMPLE. MEIER'S LIKE A WALMART. IT'S A MIDWESTERN COMPANY OUT OF MICHIGAN. BUT TARGET. BUT THERE YOU GO. AV STANDS FOR ASSESSED VALUE PER ACRE. SO WE'RE JUST UNDER 25 MILLION AN ACRE FOR THAT BEAUTIFUL BUILDING IN OUR DOWNTOWN WITH A CENTER COURTYARD, TWO LEVELS OF UNDERGROUND PARKING. THERE WE ARE JUST UNDER HALF $1 MILLION AN ACRE FOR THE BIG BOX STORE. 
          THIS IS CHICAGO. THIS IS ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT WE NEED TO PRESERVE THE EARTH THAT WE WERE GIVEN. AND SO, SEE, THAT'S THE WHITE UP IN THE TOP RIGHT OF BOTH PICTURES, LAKE MICHIGAN. AND SO THE ORANGE LOOK AT THE LEFT HAND PICTURE. THAT'S CARBON BEING PUT OUT THROUGH THE DENSEST PART OF THE CITY OF CHICAGO. AND YOU SEE THE SUBURBS ARE BLUE AROUND THE EDGES, MUCH LESS CARBON COMING OUT. THEN YOU LOOK OUT ON A PER PERSON BASIS ON A PER CAPITA BASIS, AND IT TOTALLY FLIPS. IN THE SECOND PICTURE. I FOUND THAT FASCINATING. IT SHOWS THAT WALKABILITY, NOT HAVING TO DRIVE AS MUCH REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. THERE'S AGAIN, WE'RE COMPARING THE CARMEL SOPHIA SQUARE IN THE BOTTOM. 
          YOU KNOW, 23, $25 MILLION OF ASSESSED VALUE. THE SLIDES WERE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT YEARS VERSUS OUR NEIGHBOR IS CALLED FISHERS. THERE'S AN IKEA AND TOPGOLF 1 MILLION PER ACRE. SO IT'S ALMOST 24 TIMES. FOR THE GENTLE DENSITY. AND THERE'S WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH SOME OF THAT MONEY. 
          THE DICK'S SPORTING GOODS AT THE TOP IS DOWN IN CARMEL. THAT'S ANOTHER PICTURE I FOUND ON THE INTERNET. IT LOOKS LIKE JUST LIKE THE ONE RIGHT HERE IN WEST JORDAN. MAYBE IT WAS I DON'T KNOW, THERE'S PALM TREES. THIS IS WHAT WE DID IN CARMEL ON THE BOTTOM. PUT THE CARS IN THE BACK. DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT COMPLICATED AND MADE IT BEAUTIFUL IN FRONT. AND THAT'S A PUBLIC PLAZA THAT THERE'S STORES ON EITHER SIDE, TWO, TWO STORY STORES AND OFFICES. SO YOU CAN FIT BIG BOXES AND MAKE IT BEAUTIFUL. LIKE, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE MALL? YOU YOU HAVE THIS VERY SIMILAR PLAZA IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MALL WHERE WE HAD LUNCH. CAN JORDAN LANDING? YEAH, JORDAN, THAT MALL IN THE MIDDLE IS VERY MUCH LIKE THIS THEATER. YEAH, YEAH. AND THERE'S WE HAVE A SIGN ORDINANCE. TOP PICTURE IS A KEYSTONE AVENUE LOOKING INTO THE CITY OF INDIANAPOLIS. 
          AND THEN THE PHOTOGRAPHER DID A 180 ON A DIFFERENT DAY BECAUSE THE SKY IS BLUE. BUT LOOKING INTO CARMEL WITH NO OFF SITE SIGNS AND NOTHING MORE THAN MONUMENT SIGNS, LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE. WHY DO WE HAVE TO MAKE OUR. I ALWAYS SAID TO THE SIGN, PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET OUR COMMUNITY LOOK UGLY. WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT BEAUTIFUL. PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE HERE AND SPEND THEIR LIVES HERE. WE HAVE THE RIGHT AS TAXPAYERS TO DEMAND THAT WE LIVE IN A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. WE USE A LOT OF BOULEVARDS. OF COURSE. OUR WHAT? WE GET A LOT OF WATER TOO. WE GET CLOSE TO 45, 50IN A YEAR. BUT WE THAT'S IN AROUND ABOUT. 
          WE PUT THESE, YOU KNOW, LEFT HAND TURNS. THE MOST DANGEROUS TURNING MOTION THERE IS. WE PUT THE BOULEVARDS IN, GO TO THE NEXT ROUNDABOUT AND COME BACK. TREE CANOPY GETS GOING MUCH FASTER. IT'S GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. I THINK IT HELPS ROAD RAGE AS WELL. ROUNDABOUTS. 
          FIRST OF ALL, SAFETY. WELL, LET ME DEFINE ROUNDABOUT VERSUS A TRAFFIC CIRCLE. FIRST. THE ARC DE TRIOMPHE IS NOT A ROUNDABOUT. THAT IS A TRAFFIC CIRCLE AND IT'S VERY DANGEROUS. 8 OR 9 LANES. YOU SEE THESE IN THE EAST COAST OF THE US THROUGH OLD ROTARIES OR CIRCLES. THEY CALL THEM TRAFFIC CIRCLES. THE BRITS INVENTED THE MODERN ROUNDABOUT. TWO BRITISH ENGINEERS ABOUT 1961. AND IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE. THE SMALLER, THE SAFER THEY BECOME TO START THAT US FATALITY RATE NATIONALLY IS 12 DEATHS PER 100,000 PEOPLE, 12 DEATHS PER 100,000 PEOPLE. CARMEL'S TEN YEAR AVERAGE HAS BEEN ABOUT TWO. SO WE'RE SAVING WITH OUR 158 ROUNDABOUTS DOWN TO FOUR STOPLIGHTS. IT WILL BE DOWN TO ONE AT THE END OF THE SUMMER. 
          WE'RE SAVING TEN LIVES A YEAR. WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT STATISTICALLY WE'RE SAVING THAT MANY PEOPLE. THE CRISIS OF PERSONAL INJURY CRISIS HAVE GONE DOWN BY ABOUT 70%. IT'S ALL ABOUT SPEED AND ANGLE OF IMPACT AND ELIMINATING LEFT HAND TURNS. YOU DON'T TURN LEFT IN A ROUNDABOUT. DID THE TRIAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION OPPOSE THAT MOVE? I'M A LAWYER. SOME OF MY 
          [00:35:05]
FRIENDS KILL ME ABOUT THAT. I THINK THEY WERE HALF SERIOUS. YEAH. THERE'S A ROUNDABOUTS EVERY ONE OF THOSE CIRCLES. WELL. YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH YOUR SNOWPLOWS. WHAT? YEAH. NO. YOU KNOW, THEY BOUNCED UP A LITTLE BIT AND RUBBER. YOU KNOW IT'S NOT A METAL BLADE. IT'S RUBBER AT THE BOTTOM. AND THEY TAKE THEM CAREFULLY, BUT THEY PRE-SALT THEM. AND WE'D DO THAT FOR THE INTERSECTIONS TO. WE DON'T GET SNOW LIKE YOU DO IN THE MOUNTAINS. WE PROBABLY GET SIMILAR AMOUNT YOU DO IN THE VALLEY 20, 20, 30IN A YEAR. YEAH. HOW MANY SHOULD YOU GET IN THE VALLEY A YEAR? 30IN. YOU KNOW, YOU GET MORE, I WOULD SAY ON AVERAGE MUCH LESS THAN THAT ON AVERAGE. THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD TOTAL. BUT I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THE YEAR 3 OR 4IN THEY WORK. MAKE SURE THEY'RE SOLID REALLY WELL OKAY. SO THIS TELLS THE STORY. IF A PEDESTRIAN IS HIT AT 20MPH. NINE OUT OF TEN ARE GOING TO SURVIVE AT 40 MILES AN HOUR. 
          ONLY ONE OUT OF TEN SURVIVE. SO WE'VE GOT TO SLOW DOWN. WE HAVE CONFLICTS AND CROSSWALKS. I THINK STOPLIGHTS, FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. PEOPLE ARE KILLED ALL THE TIME IN CROSSWALKS. 
          DRIVERS SON GETS IN THEIR EYES. THEY'RE TEXTING. THEY DON'T SEE THE LIGHT SWITCH. NOBODY HERE HAS EVER SPED UP TO GO THROUGH A YELLOW LIGHT, RIGHT? NEVER SPEED UP FOR THE RED ONES. THE YELLOW ONES JUST GO SPEED UP THROUGH THE RED ONES. AS I SAID, THE OTHER ONES YOU CAN JUST GO THROUGH. I CATCH MYSELF DOING IT EVEN WHEN IT'S GREEN, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET THROUGH IT BEFORE IT TURNS YELLOW OR RED. RIGHT? AND SO YES, THIS THIS REALLY HIT HOME FOR ME. MY NEIGHBOR'S DAUGHTER WAS HIT ON A STREET VERY CLOSE TO OUR HOME. THE DRIVER WAS GOING 35, AND SHE WAS A YOUNG LADY AND VERY STRONG YOUNG LADY, AND SHE SURVIVED. BUT I CAN SEE HERE HER CHANCES WEREN'T THAT GREAT. SHE SHE COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN KILLED. SOMEBODY GOING 35 MILES AN HOUR. AND AND THAT WAS A VERY HARROWING EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYBODY, REALLY, IN OUR WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD, NOT JUST THAT FAMILY. THANK YOU. LOOK WHAT THE CAT DRAGGED IN. KELVIN. 
          KELVIN. AND HERE'S ANOTHER CHART STOPLIGHT. YOU HAVE 32 POTENTIAL CONFLICT POINTS AROUND ABOUT. YOU HAVE EIGHT. YOU, JIM. YES, SIR. YOU DON'T MIND? CAN YOU GO BACK TO SLIDES? I WANT TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS. THANK YOU. IF YOU NOTICE THIS MAP, MOST OF THESE ROUNDABOUTS ARE ON COLLECTORS OR ARTERIAL STREETS. YES, THAT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE TO MOST PEOPLE. 
          YEAH. THANK YOU. SOME ARE IN NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT THE MAJORITY ARE NOT. SQUEEZE YOU STOP SIGNS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS. YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE CAR EVERY HALF HOUR, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THING. 
          THERE'S A TRAFFIC CALMING. WE PUT THIS ONE IN TO CALM DRIVERS BEFORE THEY GET INTO THE ART DESIGN DISTRICT, WHICH IS VERY, VERY PEDESTRIAN. HEAVY PEDESTRIANS OUT THERE ALL THE TIME. PROBABLY DIDN'T NEED IT FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL. AGAIN, THIS IS HOW YOU DO U-TURNS. GO DOWN TO THE ROUNDABOUT AND COME BACK. YOU JUST DON'T TURN LEFT FROM YOUR TRAVEL LANE. THIS IS PERSONAL INJURY ACCIDENTS. I HATE TO PUT NUMBERS ON A POWERPOINT, BUT WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS OUR POPULATION. WE ADJUSTED THIS FOR POPULATION CHANGES, BUT WE WENT FROM 0.68 JUST, YOU KNOW, THREE QUARTERS OF OR EXCUSE ME, TWO THIRDS OF A POINT PERSONAL INJURY ACCIDENTS PER YEAR TO 0.157 ONE FIFTH. TELL ME WHEN YOU'RE OUT OF TIME. I DON'T WANT TO. NO NO, NO NO PROBLEM. I GOT SOMEONE WHO KEEPS TEXTING ME. OH, OKAY. STOP IT. CUT IT OUT. WE SAVE THAT MUCH GASOLINE PER YEAR. IT'S A LACK OF IDLING AS PART OF. IT'S MAINLY NOT STARTING FROM DEAD ZERO, LOW MOMENTUM AND PHYSICS. AND IT TAKES TWICE AS MUCH ENERGY TO GO FROM 0 TO 50. AND THAT'S A BIG DEAL HERE IN THIS VALLEY WITH OUR INVERSION THAT WE DEAL WITH. SO WE DON'T JUST HAVE INVERSION IN THE WINTER. IT HAPPENS IN THE SUMMER AS WELL. AND THE NEW YORK TIMES DID A BIG ARTICLE ENVIRONMENTAL AND THEY FEATURED US ON IT DECEMBER 22ND. I THINK AN AVERAGE OF 20,000 GALLONS OF GASOLINE. YEAH. OKAY. I JUST WAS MISSING A WORD, SO. OH, YEAH. THANK YOU. YOU SAVED WORDS PER YEAR, TOO. YEAH. SO I HAD A STAFF WHEN I WAS MAYOR, 
          [00:40:04]
AND IT'S ALL GOOD. THEN. THIS USED TO BE A STATE ROAD. WE WERE GETTING TWO FATALITIES ON AVERAGE PER YEAR ON IT. YOU KNOW, THEY GAVE US BARELY. SO THE STATE ROAD IS, YOU KNOW, THE BIG ROAD THAT GOING. LET ME GO FORWARD A COUPLE. I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE. THERE IN THE BOTTOM LEFT IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE INITIALLY. THERE'S NO WAY A PEDESTRIAN COULD CROSS IT. NO PEDESTRIAN CROSSING LIGHT, NOTHING. YOU'D BE CRAZY TO SUICIDAL TO TRY TO CROSS THAT ROAD. THAT'S THE INTERSECTION FAIRLY CLOSE TO MY HOUSE. IN FACT, AT THE BOTTOM LEFT. AND THE STATE WAS GOING TO ADD LANES IN EACH DIRECTION, ALL THEY WERE DOING WAS GOING TO CREATE A BIGGER PARKING LOT TO GET MORE CARS THROUGH THE GREEN CYCLE. THE LIGHT DOING WHAT DOTS DID FOR DECADES. HOW DO WE MOVE AS MANY CARS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE THROUGH YOUR CITY, WITHOUT REGARD TO YOUR LOCAL ROADS, WITHOUT REGARD TO PEDESTRIANS, WITHOUT REGARDS TO IT'S VERY NARROW FOCUS. YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE AS MANY CARS AS FAST AS WE CAN, AND WE HAD TO KIND OF FIGHT THAT PHILOSOPHY. SO I HAD KNOWN THE GOVERNOR SINCE I WAS ABOUT 20 YEARS OLD, AND HE WAS 22 YEARS OLD. HE'S A SHARP GUY. PRINCETON, GEORGETOWN LAW SCHOOL. I KEPT WORKING WITH HIS END OUT PEOPLE. INDIANA, DOT, INDOT AND SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO. SO, YOU KNOW, ROADS ARE RATED BY SCHOOL GRADES AND IT WAS AN F D MINUS OR SOMETHING. THEY WERE GOING TO GET IT TO A C OR C MINUS IN TEN YEARS. THEIR OWN STUDY SAID IT'S GOING TO BE BACK TO AN F, AND THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND $50 MILLION, AND THEY'RE GOING TO DESTROY SOME NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE PROCESS. SO WE HAD A MEETING WITH THE GOVERNOR AND THE I HAD TO GO OVER THE GUY'S HEAD. HE WASN'T VERY HAPPY WITH ME. AND THE BOTTOM LINE, HE ENDED UP TELLING THE GOVERNOR HE DIDN'T THINK HOOSIERS OR PEOPLE IN INDIANA WERE SMART ENOUGH TO DRIVE ROUNDABOUTS. 
          AND THE GOVERNOR STANDS UP AT A TABLE LIKE THIS, LEANS OVER. HE'S ABOUT FIVE TWO. SO. SO YOU'RE CALLING ME STUPID? AND HE RESIGNED. WE GOT A ROAD WITH $100 MILLION CHECK, AND IT BECAME A CITY ROAD. WE SPENT ABOUT $118 MILLION IN 2000, $2,008 TO DO SIX OF THESE INTERCHANGES. YOU SEE, THE MAIN LINE, BECAUSE OF OUR WATER TABLE, GOES DOWN ABOUT TWO THIRDS OF THE SEPARATION. THE CROSS STREET GOES UP ABOUT ONE THIRD. YOU CAN WALK ACROSS IT. 
          OH, I'M SORRY, I'M SORRY, SORRY ABOUT THAT. YOU CAN WALK ACROSS IT EITHER BIKE PATH, ASPHALT, BIKE PATHS. YOU WALK. COME UP HERE, YOU CAN CROSS. YOU SEE THE RED. THAT'S THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. OR IF YOU WANT TO, YOU KNOW, CARS ARE GOING ABOUT 15 TO 20 MILES OUT THERE. SO BICYCLISTS CAN GO THAT FAST. THEY CAN RIDE WITH THE TRAFFIC. DO THEY CHOOSE TO OR BE ON THE SIDE? WE HAVEN'T HAD A FATALITY AND AN INTERSECTION ON THIS ROAD. WE'RE GETTING TWO A YEAR. 
          REMEMBER, IT'S 5.2 MILES. WE HAVEN'T HAD A FATALITY SINCE WE STARTED THE PROJECT IN 2007. 
          THERE'S A ROAD IN OUR DOWNTOWN AREA. THERE'S A FIVE LANE ROAD WITH A CENTER LEFT HAND TURN LANE. WHAT WE CALL A SUICIDE LANE WITH TRAFFIC LIGHTS. WE WANTED TO REPLACE ALL THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS WITH ROUNDABOUTS. WORKS RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY, NEXT TO THE CITY CENTER. FARTHER UP YOU CAN SEE IT CLOSE TO CITY HALL, GOES INTO OUR ART DESIGN DISTRICT, AND WE REPLACED IT WITH ROUNDABOUTS. PUT THE MEDIAN YOU SEE DOWN THE CENTER LANE, AND ONCE YOU GET NORTH OF THAT SECOND ROUNDABOUTS ONE LANE IN EACH DIRECTION AS OPPOSED TO TWO. AND GUESS WHAT? TRIP TIMES STAY THE SAME OR WENT DOWN AND SPEEDS WENT DOWN. IT'S BECAUSE THE ROUNDABOUTS MOVED 50% MORE CARS PER HOUR, AND WE MADE IT BEAUTIFUL TO LOOK AT A TREE CANOPY. IT'S MUCH SAFER FOR PEDESTRIANS. THERE'S MORE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC ON THAT ROAD THAN I'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. SO THAT WORKED. THAT'S FATALITIES IN INDIANA CITIES. IT'S SORT OF SHOWS WHAT I ALREADY SAID. YOU CAN'T READ IT. BUT HERE'S CARMEL, GO DOWN HERE. THESE FISHERS IN WESTFIELD ARE SECOND AND THIRD. THEY'RE SECOND AND THIRD BECAUSE THEY BUILT A BUNCH OF ROUNDABOUTS TO NOT AS MANY AS WE HAVE. THEY BOTH TOUCH US. THERE ARE NEIGHBORS. 
          BUT THEN YOU GO DOWN HERE TO SOUTH BEND. YOU'RE AT 14 DEATHS PER 100,000 DOWN HERE IN 2022. 
          THEY'RE UP TO 19.8 DEATHS PER 100,000. VALPARAISO, 22.8 DEATHS PER 100,000 PER YEAR. 
          IT'S ALL OBVIOUSLY POPULATION DIFFERENCES IN CITIES, BUT WE ACCOUNTED FOR THAT IN THE CALCULATION. ACCIDENT COMPARISON AGAIN SHOWS OUR PERCENT OF POPULATION TOTAL 
          [00:45:07]
INJURIES WERE 0.2. EVANSVILLE AT THE BOTTOM IS AT 1.41. SO SEVEN TIMES. THIS IS A LOCAL NEWSPAPER. THEY LIKE TO RUN CARTOONS OF ME AND ROUNDABOUTS. THERE'S OUR CONCERT HALL. 
          EVERYBODY KNOW THE SONG STARDUST, THE MOST RECORDED SONG IN HISTORY. YOU. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE NAME, YOU'D RECOGNIZE THE TUNE. IT'S BEEN. 300 DIFFERENT ARTISTS HAVE RECORDED IT. IT WAS WRITTEN BY HOAGY CARMICHAEL, A LAWYER FROM INDIANA BACK AROUND THE 1920S, AND WE'RE GETTING READY TO PUT THE GREAT AMERICAN SONGBOOK MUSEUM IN CARMEL. YOU KNOW, CLEVELAND HAS ROCK AND ROLL MUSEUM AND NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE HAS THE COUNTRY HALL OF FAME MUSEUM. WE'RE DOING THE GERSHWIN, SINATRA, THAT GENRE OF MUSIC AND SO ON. THAT THE CORNER YOU CAN'T SEE TO THE LEFT IS WHERE THAT MUSEUM IS GOING TO GO. AND SO WE PUT THIS SCULPTURE IN THE ROUNDABOUT. THAT'S THE STARS AND MOON COMING OUT OF THE OLD VICTROLA. 
          AND AT NIGHT IT'S ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL. IT'S ALL DIFFERENT COLORS AND PRETTY COOL. 45FT TALL. IS IT ACTUALLY LIT UP OR IS THERE JUST LIGHTS ON THE SCREEN? NO, IT'S LEDS IN IT INSIDE OF IT. YEAH. OH, AND IT'S LIT FROM THE BOTTOM TOO. YOU SEE THE LIGHTS AT THE BOTTOM. THERE'S ALSO LIGHTS IN IT, THAT SORT OF TWINKLE. SO YOU REALLY NEED THAT 1% OF YOUR TOTAL BUDGET TO PAY FOR STUFF LIKE THAT. THERE'S A GROUP OF FIVE MEN, I THINK, MEET IN A PUB IN LONDON THAT CALLED ME ONE DAY AND SAID, WE'D LIKE TO PUT ONE OF YOUR ROUNDABOUTS IN OUR CALENDAR. WE DO THE CALENDAR, THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ROUNDABOUTS IN THE WORLD. THEY CALL THEMSELVES THE BRITISH ROUNDABOUT APPRECIATION SOCIETY. SO WE ENDED UP BEING ON THE COVER AND THEN THEY HIT US UP TO BUY 10,000 CALENDARS. GREAT SWAG GIFT. SO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND I THINK IT WAS A WAY FOR THEM TO PAY FOR THEIR BEER MONEY, I DON'T KNOW, THEY WERE UNIQUE. UNIQUE MAN. YEAH. BUT WE GOT A NICE CALENDAR OUT OF IT. THERE'S SOME OF OUR ROUNDABOUT ART. WOW, THAT PINK FLOWER IN THE LEFT IS. YOU SEE IT IN THE DAYTIME. ON THE TOP RIGHT IS 45FT TALL. TWO LED LIGHTING. AND THIS IS OUR INTEREST IN INDIANAPOLIS ON ONE OF OUR ROADS ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE FIREWORKS. YEAH IT DOES. IT'S LED LIGHTING. 
          IT'S JUST EXQUISITE. THE ARTIST IS SO GOOD. THERE YOU GO. THAT WAS THE DAY OF THE NCAA FINALS CAME OUT. THE NEWSPAPER RAN THAT. THEY MADE ME LOOK REALLY, REALLY FAT. YEAH. THERE IS THAT ONE AGAIN. HERE. OUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES MIXED USE, LESS EMPHASIS ON YOUTH ZONING, MORE ON FORM, WHAT THE BUILDING LOOKS LIKE, HOW IT APPROACHES THE STREET, WHAT TYPE OF PLACE DO PEOPLE FEEL THEY'RE IN, YOU KNOW, DO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE LOOKING AT THAT PARKING LOT OR BEAUTIFUL ARCHITECTURE? FOCUS. BUILD OUR CITIES FOR PEOPLE, NOT CARS. AND WE REALLY FOCUSED ON THAT. HIERARCHY OF BUILDINGS LIKE THIS BUILDING IS STANDS OUT AS BEAUTIFUL AS IT SHOULD. 
          MANY OF THE LDS TEMPLES, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE WE HAVE ONE IN CARMEL, OUR BEAUTIFUL BUILDINGS, PUBLIC BUILDINGS, RELIGIOUS BUILDINGS OUGHT TO BE SPECIAL AND SET THE TONE FOR THE COMMUNITY. IT NEED TO BE IN HARMONY WITH THE LAND AND BUILT SURROUNDINGS. YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE VIEWS AND WHERE THE SUN SETS, AND HOW IT LOOKS NEED TO BE ON A HUMAN SCALE. THAT'S WHY WE DON'T BUILD ANY SKYSCRAPERS IN CARMEL. WE DON'T ALLOW THEM. WE CAN GET PLENTY OF WHAT I CALL GENTLE DENSITY WITHOUT SKYSCRAPERS. WE PAY ATTENTION TO SMALL URBAN SPACES, ENCLOSURES WHERE PEOPLE FEEL SAFE, AND LOTS OF PUBLIC PLAZAS SYNC. THE ROMAN FORUM. YOU KNOW, IN THIS FRACTURED DEMOCRACY THAT WE HAVE, I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE CREATE NATURAL PLACES FOR PEOPLE WITH ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS TO BE ABLE TO MEET PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT FAITHS, PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT RACES, PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES, PEOPLE DIFFERENT PLACES OF ORIGIN. THEY ALL WE ALL NEED TO GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER. WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS COUNTRY WORK. I THOUGHT INNER CITY WORK. AND SO WE PAID A LOT OF ATTENTION TO PLACES CREATING PART OF OUR CIVIC WEALTH, PLACES WHERE PEOPLE OF ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS IN THE CITY HAVE A CHANCE TO GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER. IF YOU JUST DO SOME OF THOSE GARAGES AND HOUSES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE NOBODY WALKS, THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT. AND THEN WE PAID ATTENTION TO THE DENSITY. WE HAD STUDY AFTER STUDY AFTER STUDY AND TRIED HOW DO YOU GET IT RIGHT? WE ENDED UP GOING BACK TO OLD EUROPE, 
          [00:50:03]
THE WAY THEY BUILT BEFORE THE CAR CAME ALONG. THEY HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT AFTER 2 OR 3000 YEARS. AND I MY THEORY IS THAT WHEN THE CAR CAME ALONG, WE THREW OUT EVERYTHING WE KNEW ABOUT ARCHITECTURE AND CITY PLANNING AND TRIED TO START OVER AND MAKE A BUNCH OF MISTAKES. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PARKING LOTS THAT LOOK LIKE THAT. LEARNED FROM THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF GOOD DESIGN. SO ANYWAY, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE. HOSPITALITY'S BEEN WONDERFUL. IT'S BEEN FUN AND HOPEFULLY WHAT WE DID IN CARMEL IS HELPFUL TO YOU. OKAY. WELL, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. WE'VE GOT ABOUT TEN MINUTES OR SO. IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO ASK. JIM, I WONDER IF YOU COULD EXPAND A LITTLE BIT ON THE WAY THAT YOU MESSAGED DENSITY OR I MEAN, THESE CHANGES IN GENERAL TO TO RESIDENTS. WE'RE FORTUNATE, YOU KNOW, WELL-HEELED COMMUNITY AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TRAVELED. SO I REFERENCED WE, YOU KNOW, WE DID ALL THE NORMAL THINGS. CITY NEWSLETTER AND GOVERNMENT CHANNEL, BUT WE DID A LOT OF PROGRAMS TALKING ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF CITY PEOPLE WANTED. AND WE REFERENCED THE OLD EUROPEAN CITIES A LOT SHOW PICTURES OF THEM. AND WE SAID, WE ASKED THE QUESTION, WHY CAN'T WE BUILD LIKE THIS TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES? AND I GOT REELECTED SEVEN TIMES. I THINK MOST PEOPLE GOT IT, AND IT WAS CLEAR THIS WAS ALL ASSOCIATED WITH OUR ADMINISTRATION. THIS IS WHAT WE STOOD FOR. EVERYBODY DIDN'T GET IT. YOU HAD 20 OR 30% LIKE, I DON'T LIKE THIS. I DON'T LIKE CITIES. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY LOVE WHAT THEY LOVE. THE FOCUS ON ARCHITECTURE, LOVE THE FOCUS ON PEDESTRIAN VERSUS CARS, BUT CONSTANT MESSAGING. WE NEVER LET UP. AND INVITED QUESTIONS. I WE HAD A LOT OF RUMORS FLYING AROUND THE OLD TOWN AREA ABOUT WHAT PROPERTY THE CITY WAS GOING TO BUY, WHETHER WE WERE GOING TO CONDEMN A LOT OF INACCURATE RUMORS. 99% OF THEM WERE INACCURATE OR BASED ON SOME WRONG FACT. AND SO I SET UP A QUARTERLY MEETING FOR ALL THE BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE REDEVELOPMENT AREAS. WE GOT THE BANK TO DONATE LUNCH EVERY TIME OR SOME BUSINESS, AND WE DO IT IN THE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS AND HAVE A BUFFET IN THE BACK, AND THEY GET LUNCH AND I BRING ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND WE GIVE AN UPDATE ON EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING, PICTURES OF NEW PROJECTS, AND IT REALLY CALMED DOWN THOSE RUMORS. I WENT TO HUNDREDS OF NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MEETINGS, TALK ABOUT IT. SO WE WORKED HARD AT COMMUNICATING OUR IDEAS. AND IT WASN'T. AS MUCH TELLING PEOPLE WHAT WE WANTED THEM TO DO AS SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. AND LIKE FEEDBACK. 
          YOU WANT TO GIVE US ANYTHING, MADE SURE WE WERE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND TELL THEM WHY. YOU KNOW, IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE WHY ROUNDABOUTS ARE SAFER THAN TRAFFIC LIGHTS IS COUNTERINTUITIVE, AND SMALL ROUNDABOUTS ARE BETTER THAN BIG ROUNDABOUTS. FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT, IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE THAT DENSITY IS GOING TO SAVE THAT MUCH MONEY FOR A CITY PEOPLE. THEY'RE BUSY, THEY HAVE OTHER JOBS. AND THINK ABOUT THAT. SO WE PROVIDED ALL THAT INFORMATION ON A MONTHLY BASIS ALL THE TIME. THANKS. WE FIRST DID THE FIRST ROUNDABOUTS. WE COULDN'T FIND ANY. WE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH MONEY THEN. WE WEREN'T. WE FOUND AN OLD ENGLISH VIDEO EXPLAINING WHY ROUNDABOUTS WERE BETTER. OF COURSE IT WAS BACKWARDS. THEY WERE DRIVING THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD. WE PLAYED THAT IN OUR GOVERNMENT CHANNEL PROBABLY FOR THREE MONTHS, ALMOST NONSTOP. 
          BUT THEN WE GOT MORE SOPHISTICATED THIS TIME. YOU HAVE THE FUN CHALLENGE OF HAVING STATE ROADS AND STATE CONTROLLED ROADS. YOU HEARD MY STORY. ALL OF OUR ALL OF OUR MAIN ARTERIES ARE STATE ROADS. AND SO FINDING FINDING THE PLACE TO START. HOW DO YOU FIND A PLACE TO START LIKE THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY QUESTION BECAUSE IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL NOW. BUT YOU HAD TO START SOMEWHERE AND WE STARTED ON CITY ROADS, MADE IT WORK, MADE IT BEAUTIFUL. THEN WE HAD SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT AND WE WENT TO END UP ONE. ONE THING I ASKED JIM YESTERDAY AS WE WERE DRIVING AROUND THE TOWN IS, YOU KNOW, OUR CITY IS ACTUALLY WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LARGER POPULATION THAN THAN CARMEL BY JUST A LITTLE BIT. AND WE'RE FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD THAN THEY WERE WHEN THEY STARTED. AS FAR AS THE DEVELOPMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY, I JUST SAID TO JIM, IS IT TOO LATE? IS IT TOO LATE FOR WEST JORDAN TO MAKE THE KINDS OF CHANGES THAT YOU MADE IN CARMEL? AND IF YOU COULD SHARE YOUR ANSWER TO THAT, IT'S NEVER TOO LATE. NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, YOU'RE NOT THAT MUCH FARTHER ALONG. MAYBE TEN YEARS, 15 
          [00:55:07]
YEARS FARTHER. BUT YOU'VE GOT RODEO GROUNDS, YOU'VE GOT THIS POSSIBILITY OVER HERE. YOU'VE GOT PARKING LOTS EVERYWHERE. RAW LAND IS NICE IN THE CENTER OF THE CITY, BUT A LOT OF HOURS WE HAD TO TEAR DOWN BUILDINGS AND START OVER. PROBABLY 80% OF WHAT WE DID WAS TEAR DOWNS, OLDER BUILDINGS. AND THAT'S EXPENSIVE. BUT IF YOU TAKE I ALWAYS TRY TO SAY, WE GOT TO LOOK AT THE 50 YEAR FINANCIAL OUTLOOK. THE FIRST YEAR OR TWO MIGHT NOT BE THAT GREAT, BUT BY YEAR THREE, 4 OR 5, TEN, 15, 20, IF IT'S TEN TIMES AS MUCH EVERY YEAR, YOU KNOW OUR BREAK EVEN POINT ON ON WHAT WE SPEND VERSUS WHAT WE'RE GETTING USUALLY WAS BETWEEN 18 AND 36 MONTHS. AND THEN IN PERPETUITY, IT'S MULTIPLE TIMES BETTER IN REGARDS TO THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF USING TAX INCREMENT FINANCING. COULD YOU TALK ABOUT JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT? YOU SHOWED THE THE PICTURE OF THE THE SMALL BOX STORE AND A HUGE PARKING LOT. 
          AND AND THEN FILLING THAT WHOLE LOT WITH A LARGE BUILDING. YES. COULD YOU GET IN A LITTLE MORE INTO THAT AND, AND SEEMS LIKE YOU SAID, EVEN USING TAX INCREMENT FINANCING THAT WE CAN COLLECT MORE PROPERTY TAX, EVEN WITH THE TAX INCREMENT FINANCING, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT USING ALL OF THAT TAX INCREMENT TO PAY FOR THE LOAN. RIGHT? HERE'S ONE WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW THAT I NEGOTIATED AS BEING BUILT. IT'S NINE ACRES. IT WAS AN OLD 1950S SINGLE STOREY U-SHAPED RETAIL CENTER ABOUT READY TO FALL DOWN. IT WAS THE END OF ITS USEFUL LIFE RIGHT ON THE TRAIL. SO IT WAS EXPENSIVE LAND. SO I ASKED OUR REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL, TO BUY IT, AND THEY DID $14 MILLION. WE WERE GETTING WHEN THAT WAS AN ASPHALT PARKING LOT. AND THAT OLD BUILDING, THE SCHOOLS, THE CITY TOWNSHIP, THE COUNTY AND THE LIBRARY WERE SPLITTING $61,000 A YEAR PROPERTY TAX ON NINE ACRES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY WHEN IT'S REBUILT AT FIVE LEVELS WITH STRUCTURED PARKING, IT'S GOING TO BE $3 MILLION A YEAR. HOW MUCH IS THAT IS USED IN THE TAX INCREMENT FINANCING? TO BE SAFE, THERE COULD BE A RECESSION. SO YOU DON'T WANT TO GENERALLY, UNLESS YOU HAVE A DEVELOPER THAT HAS REALLY GOOD CREDIT WILLING TO SIGN ON THAT LOAN, YOU DON'T WANT TO BORROW 100% OF WHAT YOUR PROJECT SHOULD BE. BORROW USUALLY 80 TO 90%. IN THIS CASE, WE BORROWED 2.4 MILLION OUT OF THE ANTICIPATED 3 MILLION ANNUAL PROPERTY TAX PAYMENTS, AND THAT WILL GO TO DEBT SERVICE TO PUT THE PARKING DECKS IN THE STREETS, THE BRICK STREETS, THE FOUNTAINS, ALL THE FUN THINGS THAT MAKE IT BEAUTIFUL. THE PUBLIC ART. BUT THAT LEAVES $600,000 AS A SAFETY MEASURE. 
          AND IT ALSO IS $600,000. A CITY WILL GET WHILE THAT TIF BOND GETS PAID OFF. SO FOR THE FIRST 25 YEARS, WE'RE ONLY GETTING TEN TIMES WHAT WE WERE GETTING. WHEN THAT BOND IS PAID OFF. NOW WE'RE GETTING WHAT, 60 TIMES WHAT WE WERE GETTING. PLUS WHATEVER INFLATION IS. BUT IT SO WE 3 MILLION DEBT SERVICE 2.4. WE KEEP 600,003 MILLION. -2.4 MILLION IS 600,000. WE WERE GETTING 60. IS IT HARD GETTING THE OTHER TAXING ENTITIES ON BOARD WITH THAT? I DON'T HAVE A LEGAL OBJECTION IN INDIANA LAW. OKAY. BUT NO I DON'T BECAUSE I MEET WITH THEM ALL EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE TO. AND THE SCHOOLS WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE, NOT EVERYWHERE IN INDIANA, BUT IN OUR CITY. THERE WERE AND AND HE EXPLAINED THAT IF WE DON'T DO THIS, THERE WON'T BE ANY DEVELOPMENT THERE, AND THERE'S GOING TO BE AND THE PROPERTY THAT'S THERE IS GOING TO GET WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE. THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH CRIME, WHICH WOULD TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM YOU. AND, YOU KNOW, IF A BUILDING IS DETERIORATING, THE TAX VALUE IS GOING DOWN EVERY YEAR. AND THESE ARE THOUGHTFUL, SMART PEOPLE. AND THEY GOT IT. 
          AND THEY LIVED THERE. THEY WANTED TO SEE THE CITY BE BEAUTIFUL, TOO. AND OCCASIONALLY I'D HAVE SOMEBODY THAT DIDN'T THINK WE OUGHT TO BE DOING, BUT THEY WERE NEVER IN POSITIONS OF POWER TO TRY TO STOP IT. A COUPLE OF MY COUNTS OCCASIONALLY, COUPLE. A QUICK 
          [01:00:01]
QUESTION, AND I HAVE MY OPINIONS, BUT VERY INTERESTED CITY ABOUT THE SAME SIZE. YOU SHOWED US A HUGE CONCERT HALL. AND YOU HAD A BUILDING THAT HAD TWO THEATERS AND A BUNCH OF OUTDOOR STUFF GOING ON. HOW DID YOU WHAT WAS YOUR REASONING BEHIND HAVING SO MANY PERFORMANCE SPACES LIKE THAT, AND ONE THAT WOULD SEEMINGLY BIG BE SO MUCH BIGGER THAN CARMEL REALLY NEEDED? I SAID, I HAVE MY OPINIONS, BUT I WANTED TO HEAR A BIG LIFT FOR A CITY THE SIZE. YEAH, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY. IT WORKED OUT. 
          INDIANAPOLIS PUT SO MUCH MONEY INTO SPORTS, AND SO I THINK THE CITY'S GOT TO GO FIRST IN REDEVELOPMENT. THE PRIVATE SECTOR DECISION MAKERS, THE DECISION MAKERS, THE LENDERS, THE BANKERS HAVE TO SEE A COMMITMENT FROM THE CITY FIRST. IF THEY SEE THAT, THEN THE DEVELOPERS WILL INVEST. IF YOU WANT RESTAURANTS, IF YOU WANT PEOPLE IN THE AREA, THERE'S GOT TO BE A REASON TO GO THERE. EXACT ARGUMENT I'VE BEEN MAKING. AND SO WE WENT FIRST AND TOOK THE RISK BECAUSE YOU'RE SPREADING THE RISK 100,000, 110,000 DIFFERENT WAYS. YEAH. 
          YOU KNOW, SO IT MAKES SENSE. THE TAXPAYERS TAKE THAT RISK. I THINK WE TRIED TO PASS OFF AS MUCH OF THE RISK OF THE DEVELOPERS AS WE COULD. SO IN THE BEGINNING FOR THE CANCER, OF COURSE, WE SIGNED THE TIF BONDS AND BACKED THEM WITH GENERAL PROPERTY TAXES. BUT FOR ALL THE OTHER DEALS, AFTER THE FIRST 2 OR 3, THE DEVELOPERS SIGNED AND THE BONDS SAID, RIGHT ON THE FACE OF THE BONDS, TAXPAYERS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE AND THE BOND BUYERS ONLY LOOKED TO THE DEVELOPERS. THEY WERE ISSUED UNDER THE CITY'S AUTHORITY, BUT THE TAXPAYERS WEREN'T LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PAY IF THERE WAS A DEFAULT. LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE I'VE BEEN SPEAKING, SO I APPRECIATE IT. I THINK THERE'S A LOT TO THAT. ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR JIM? UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE KIND OF RUNNING ABOUT UP AGAINST THE TIME WISE. IT'S BEEN FASCINATING AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR THOUGHTS, AND WE'D LOVE TO INVITE ALL OF YOU TO COME OUT AND SEE IT. YOU GOT A POOL? WE HAVE SOME GOOD RESTAURANTS. GIVE ME THE BACK BACKSTORY TOUR. I WOULD I'D VERY MUCH LIKE TO. 
          KENT HAS. I THINK KENT'S ALREADY MOVED THERE ONCE HIS. SO WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP HIM ON THE COUNCIL THOUGH. HE'S TOO VALUABLE TO US HERE. SO. BUT AGAIN, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND LOVE WHAT YOU SHARED WITH US AND I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. SO AND I'M SURE AT LEAST ONE OF US IS GOING TO BE OUT VISITING YOU AT SOME TIME SOON. MY BOSS JUST TOLD ME SHE LIVES IN CARMEL. I'M SORRY. MY BOSS LIVES IN CARMEL. SHE JUST WORKED IN INDIANAPOLIS, BUT WE WORK FOR A COMPANY CALLED BIOMÉRIEUX, A FRENCH COMPANY. WHAT IS IT? BIOMÉRIEUX. BUT SHE COMES HERE TO WORK. SHE'S MY BOSS. BUT SHE LIVES IN CARMEL. SHE LIVES IN CARMEL? YEAH. SMART WOMAN. AGAIN. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? ANYONE? COUNCIL? ANY OF THE CITY FOLKS AGAIN, JIM, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND WISH WE COULD JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS AND I'D HAVE TO DEAL WITH REAL THINGS, BUT THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE THESE TO BE OUR 
          [b.
 Discussion of Amendments to West Jordan City Code Section 13-5B-8 Accessory Dwelling Units]
HOSPITALITY. NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU. WELL, THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO ON OUR COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, WHICH IS GOING TO BRING UP OUR FAVORITE POWERPOINT GURU, PATRICK BOYCE. AS WE TALK ABOUT DISCUSSION OF AMENDMENTS TO WEST JORDAN CITY CODE SECTION 13 5B8 ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. YES. OKAY. I WOULD CEDE MY TIME AND ALLOW HIM TO KEEP INSPIRING WITH WITH HIS STORY AND HIS IDEAS. SO THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF A DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD NOT TOO LONG AGO, BUT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ADDING A SECOND METER AND THE CODE REVISION THAT'S BEEN PUT FORWARD KIND OF ADDRESSES TWO MAIN THINGS. WE'VE GOT UPDATES TO THE LANGUAGE. AND THEN INITIALLY, I THINK THE PROPOSAL FROM PUBLIC UTILITIES WAS, NO, WE DON'T WANT A SECOND METER. IT CREATES MORE PROBLEMS THAN THAN SOLUTIONS FOR OUR DEPARTMENT FOR WHO FOR FOR PUBLIC UTILITIES, BECAUSE WE THE ISSUE THAT THEY WOULD RUN INTO IS THAT EVERYTHING UP TO THE METER IS IS THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY. SO THE LINE, THE METER ITSELF, THEY NEED TO BE REPAIRED, THEY NEED TO BE REPLACED. IT'S SOMETHING THAT IF WE HAVE TWO INSTEAD OF ONE OR EVEN MORE, THEN IT STARTS TO KIND OF DOUBLE AND INCREASE OUR, OUR RESPONSIBILITIES. BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS, IS THAT I THINK IN SPEAKING WITH GREG, HE'S COME OFF THAT POSITION TO JUST SAY, JUST ALLOW US SOME FLEXIBILITY IS IS WHAT HE'S 
          [01:05:03]
LOOKING FOR, THAT THEY CAN AUTHORIZE AND INSTALL A SECOND METER IF IT MEETS INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING GUIDELINES, IF IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CITY, IF THERE'S ROOM SOMETIMES IN SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENTS, WE'VE GOT LIMITED SPACE IN THE PARK STRIP, WHICH IS WHERE WE LIKE TO PUT THOSE FOR EASY SERVICE. IF THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM IN THE PARK STRIP OR THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM JUST IN BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE HOME TO INSTALL THAT, THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY NO ON THOSE. AND I THINK, I THINK THAT'S THE MAIN THING IN THE, IN THE CODE THAT'S KIND OF PROPOSED IN THE PACKET. THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A FORMATTING ISSUE THAT WE RAN INTO WITH PRIME GOV. BUT A LOT OF IT IS IS CLEAN UP LANGUAGE. WE'RE USING WORDING THAT'S BEEN APPLIED CONSISTENTLY BACK THROUGH THE CODE. AND THEN THE SECTION THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING, THE EXTERNAL ADU WATER METER IS IN IN THERE AS WELL. JUST SO YOU KNOW, INTERNAL ADUS DON'T QUALIFY UNDER STATE CODE FOR A SECOND WATER METER. SO THAT'S THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS AS WELL. THE OTHER THING I THINK THAT IN SPEAKING WITH GREG, WAS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AVAILABLE WATER TO TO SUPPLY A SECOND METER AND THAT WE REACH THOSE AND SEWER AND SEWER, FOR SURE. THERE'S ONE LAST CONSIDERATION. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? I DON'T WANT TO, LIKE JUMP TOO FAST OVER THESE, BUT YEAH. IS THERE IN THE CODE. IS THERE A SECTION WHERE LIMITS THE NAME ON THE BILLING TO THE LANDOWNER? SO MY UNDERSTANDING AND LIKE MY GOOD COLLEAGUE DAVE MURPHY IS HERE AS WELL. BUT WE THE GENERAL IS THAT THE LANDOWNER IS GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND METER. I THINK IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A SECOND NAME, I THINK WE CAN ADD A SECOND NAME ON AS A RESPONSIBLE PARTY FOR THE BILL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE OWNER WOULD HAVE TO BE ON THERE. YEAH, IS MY UNDERSTANDING. AT LEAST I DON'T KNOW. SO WE HAVE WE WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS MAYBE A YEAR AGO OR HALF AGO. I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S COVERED IN A DIFFERENT SECTION OF CODE. I THINK IT IS A DIFFERENT SECTION. IT'S NOT THIS ONE. SO WE MAKE SURE THE PROPERTY OWNER IS ON THE RIGHT. YEAH. SO I'M JUST WONDERING WHY WHY ARE WE I'M NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE IN ASKING THIS QUESTION, BUT WHY DO WE WORRY ABOUT THAT FOR AN AGE YOU, WHEN WE DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT? FOR AN APARTMENT LIKE EACH APARTMENT PERSON, EACH PERSON RENTING AN APARTMENT HAS THEIR OWN NAME ON THE UTILITIES. WELL, THEY DON'T. EXCUSE ME, I AM CORRECT IT. YEAH. OKAY, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS ELECTRIC METERS. YES. GAS METERS, BUT NOT THE WATER. OKAY, I STAND CORRECTED. WATER METER IS. THERE'S ONE METER PER BUILDING. OKAY. THANK YOU. SOMETIMES IT'S MORE THAN ONE BUILDING. THAT'S TRUE. OKAY. SO WITH THIS FLEXIBILITY BEFORE THE OWNER, THE THE OWNER HAS THE FLEXIBILITY. FLEXIBILITY OR NOT, THE FLEXIBILITY WOULD BE FOR US. IF THE HOMEOWNER WANTS TO COME IN AND SAY, I WOULD, I'M BUILDING AN ADU. I WOULD LIKE A SECOND METER. IT WOULD ALLOW PUBLIC UTILITIES TO EVALUATE THAT SPECIFIC LOT AND THAT SPECIFIC REQUEST IN THAT SPECIFIC AREA TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE SPACE, THE ROOM, THE CAPACITY THAT MEETS OUR INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE, THAT IT THAT IT COMPLIES WITH THESE CONSIDERATIONS THAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR THEIR DEPARTMENT TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS AND DETERMINATIONS AND SERVICE IT PROPERLY. SO IT GIVES IT GIVES OUR OUR STAFF FLEXIBILITY. SO BUT I DID HAVE ONE ONE ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION. AND IT'S NOT IN THIS PARTICULAR SECTION. BUT I THINK IT'S PERTINENT TO BRING IT UP IS WHETHER OR NOT THE COUNCIL HAS FEELINGS ABOUT LIMITING THE SIZE OF ADUS ON A LOT. THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION. I THINK SALT LAKE CITY LIMITS IT WITH A MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE. YOU COULD ALSO LOOK AT LIMITING IT TO A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE MAIN STRUCTURES SQUARE FOOTAGE. YOU CAN MAYBE DO A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH 1000FT OR, YOU KNOW, 10% OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE SQUARE FOOTAGE, WHICHEVER IS 
          [01:10:01]
MORE OR LESS OR HOWEVER YOU WANTED TO WORD IT. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WANTED TO GET A LITTLE FEEDBACK. I DO HAVE A LITTLE GRAPHIC WITH A THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN ON JUST KIND OF HOW HOW THE COUNCIL FELT ABOUT ADU SIZE. AND IT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT THAT THE STATE ENDS UP DISCUSSING AS WELL. WE OBVIOUSLY WOULDN'T BRING IT BACK UNTIL WE KNEW WHAT, IF ANY, DIRECTION STATE WAS GOING TO ON IT. BUT THE COUNCIL WANTED TO DISCUSS THAT. NOW, ONE THING. 
          SO COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELAW COULDN'T BE HERE, BUT SHE DID PASS ALONG ONE THING THAT SHE WAS SAYING THAT ONCE WE GET THE HEIGHT, AS THE HEIGHT INCREASES, MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT ITS POSITION WITH THE PROPERTY LINE AS WELL. YEAH. SETBACKS. YEAH. SETBACKS FOR SURE. SO JUST I JUST WANT TO MAKE I'M JUST PUTTING IN WHAT SHE WANTED TO MAKE SURE WAS BROUGHT UP BECAUSE THAT'S MY JOB. YEAH. REGARDING THE SIZE I LIKE THE IDEA OF MAKING IT NO MORE THAN A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE MAIN HOUSE, BECAUSE AN ADU SHOULD NOT BE THE MAIN HOUSE. YEAH, EXACTLY. THANK YOU. AND THE ADU IS BIGGER. IT IS THE MAIN HOUSE. 
          YEAH, IT'S THE HOUSE IS THE 80. SO I BELIEVE AND THEN LIKE BUY ONE, GET ONE. IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE PUTTING TWO, TWO MAIN DWELLINGS ON ONE LOT. AND DO WE WANT THAT. I THINK ONE NEEDS TO BE THE, THE SECONDARY UNIT WITHIN THE PROPERTY BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUBDIVIDING. YEAH. 
          WE'RE NOT SUBDIVIDING THE PROPERTY TO CREATE THAT SECOND ADU. YEAH. SO COUNCIL IF I CAN IF I CAN JUST ADD A LITTLE CONTEXT TALKING WITH GREG DAVENPORT WHO'S OVER PUBLIC UTILITIES, HE HAD MENTIONED GENERALLY THE EXTERNAL ADU IS TYING INTO THE EXISTING PRIMARY RESIDENCE WATER LINE AND SEWER LINE. AND SO AT A CERTAIN SIZE, THE DEMAND OF THOSE SERVICES FOR THE ADU MAY EXCEED WHAT THAT LINE CAN DO AND THE IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE TO THE CITY INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE IN THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY. SO HE JUST WANTED TO BE MINDFUL THAT IF AN ADU IS TYING INTO AN EXISTING PRIMARY RESIDENCE, WATER AND SEWER LINE, THAT CAPACITY COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH A LARGER SIZE. THAT'S TRULY A MATTER OF FIXTURE COUNT IN THE EXISTING RESIDENCE OR THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. SO WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE PLUMBING CODE AND FOLLOW HOW MANY FIXTURES CAN BE SERVICED OFF OF ONE METER, VERSUS WHEN IT ACTUALLY NEEDS THE SECOND YEAR? OKAY. SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF HAVING IT BE A PERCENTAGE. PERSONALLY, AS FAR AS I MEAN, THE STATE IS A STATE LAW THAT SAYS INTERNAL ADUS HAVE TO BE SMALLER THAN THE HAS TO BE THE SMALLER UNIT. OF THE TWO. YEAH, IT'S GOT TO BE SMALLER. I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS IF THERE'S A 4000 SQUARE FOOT HOME AND A 3800 SQUARE FOOT ADU, IF THAT'S I MEAN, TECHNICALLY SMALLER, BUT I THINK IT'S IT'S THIS QUESTION OF DEGREE AND WHETHER WHETHER THERE'S A DESIRE AND. WHAT THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO SEE ON ON HOW MUCH SMALLER IF YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A WILLINGNESS TO USE WE HAVE LIMITS ON HEIGHT OR IS IT JUST WITHIN THE WITHIN THE ZONE. RIGHT. THE TWO STORY, IT SHOULD BE SHORTER THAN ZONES. AND SETBACK WILL DICTATE WHAT THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT AND HOW CLOSE TO PROPERTY LINES. ALLEN'S GOT AN ADU RIGHT NEXT TO HIM AND IT'S IT'S A ONE STORY. AND YEAH, YOU COULD CONSIDER IT LIKE A POOL HOUSE. THE CODE RIGHT NOW IS MAX IS 20FT AND I THINK THERE'S A 20FT IS THE MAX. AND I THINK IT'S 16 OR 17FT IS THE IS THAT NORMAL. AND THEN IF IT GOES UP A FOOT THE SETBACK IT INCREASES A FOOT. LIKE I MEAN, I WOULD GUESS THE ONE NEXT TO YOU ISN'T A BOTHER TO YOU AS A CITIZEN, BUT IF IT WAS A TWO STORY, YOU MIGHT FEEL DIFFERENTLY. MAYBE. BUT BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT'S ON THE WEST SIDE AND CUT OFF YOUR SUN LIGHT EARLIER. SO NOW I'M JUST SAYING, YEAH, THAT CONCERN CAN HAPPEN WITH ANYBODY BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN OTHER CONCERNS WITH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT PUT HUGE SOLAR PANELS IN THEIR BACKYARD AND THAT SHINES UPON THE PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS. I JUST FEEL THAT IT WOULD IT WOULD BE ARBITRARY TO JUST COME UP WITH A NUMBER AND SAY, 50% IS THE NUMBER OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, OR X NUMBER OF SQUARE FOOT OR WHATEVER, X NUMBER OF PERCENTAGE OF OPEN LAND AVAILABILITY THAT YOU CAN DEDICATE TO. IT FEELS ARBITRARY, BECAUSE WHAT MIGHT WORK IN ONE PLACE WITHIN THAT LIMIT MIGHT NOT WORK IN ANOTHER PLACE WITHIN THAT LIMIT. RIGHT? OR SOMETHING THAT TECHNICALLY FITS THAT LIMIT STILL MIGHT NOT WORK 
          [01:15:05]
SOMEWHERE. AND YOU MIGHT SAY, WELL, IT'S ALLOWED UNDER THE CODE BECAUSE YOU PUT A NUMBER IN THERE AND YOU PUT LIKE THIS, I'D RATHER HAVE IT. I MEAN, IT'S A HARDER WAY TO DO IT, BUT I'D RATHER HAVE IT BE BE SOMETHING LIKE A. LIKE A, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE IT KIND OF A THING. RIGHT? LIKE, LIKE IT MAKES SENSE OR IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. SO SUBJECTIVE. YEAH. I JUST KNOW THAT THE SETBACKS KIND OF GET TO THAT. BUT CHUCKLING A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I'M I'M LISTENING TO YOU. AND THEN I EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE I'LL GLANCE AT LARRY WHO'S GOT A ADMINISTER THIS AND WHICH IS WHICH. FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE THEY HAVE TO HAVE THIS IS HOW MUCH I TRUST LARRY. YEAH, I KNOW HE CAN DO IT. HE CAN WRITE LARRY INTO THE CODE. 
          SEE, LARRY. LARRY MUST APPROVE. THE LARRY LAU CODE ON A LOT OF PLACES. ZONING, ZONING ADMINISTRATOR. YEAH, I AGAIN, I MAYBE NOT SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE FORMALLY DECIDED UPON TONIGHT. I THINK THE THE IDEA WAS AND AND MAYBE I'D BE OKAY EVEN JUST GETTING A LITTLE DIRECTION SAYING, IS IT SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL'S INTERESTED IN CONTINUING TO DISCUSS AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WE CAN BRING IT BACK WITH MAYBE SOME ADDITIONAL IDEAS? WE WOULDN'T BE THE ONLY CITY SALT LAKE CITY HAS, YOU KNOW, LIMITATIONS. OTHERS ARE AROUND THE VALLEY OF PUTTING LIMITATIONS. THE STATE WILL ADDRESS IT AS WELL. AND SO IT'S JUST, COUNCILMEMBER SHELDON, YOU BROUGHT UP A PERCENTAGE. DID YOU HAVE A PERCENTAGE IN MIND? NO, I, I THINK THERE'S PEOPLE SMARTER THAN ME THAT HAVE THOSE PERCENTAGES. CAN I ADD SOME? SPEAKING OF PEOPLE SMARTER THAN US, SALT LAKE CITY LIMITS ARE A THOUSAND 1000 WATT, THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, JUST NOT MANY AND MANY OF THEM. AND IT'S JUST A BROAD. YOU CAN PUT IT IN ANY ZONE, BUT A LOT OF THEIR LOTS ARE VERY, VERY SMALL, VERY, VERY. AND SO OURS RIGHT NOW IS A 10TH. AND SO YOU CAN PUT A MUCH BIGGER ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT 10,000 I, I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE LIMITATION CAME DOWN SQUARE FOOT LOT. YEAH. IT'S 10,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. 
          YEAH. I WAS JUST BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST PASSED THIS IT WAS JUST MAKE IT SMALLER AT HOME. 
          I'LL. WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT'S DRIVING THE CONVERSATION TO LIMIT THE SIZE OF THE AD JUST TO KEEP IT. JUST KEEP IT STATUS AS A SECONDARY UNIT ON A, ON THE PROPERTY AND NOT USE TOO MUCH WATER AND SEWER SERVICES. WE KEEP IT TO A CERTAIN SIZE. IT'S ABOUT A POINT, BUT IF YOU'RE THINKING OF PROPERTY TAX, THE BIGGER THE BUILDING, THE MORE PROPERTY TAX YOU COLLECT. 
          SO THERE'S THERE'S GOT TO BE A SWEET SPOT RIGHT WHERE. WELL, THERE'S ALSO THE NEIGHBORS AS WELL. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, ANYTIME YOU PUT SOMETHING IN SOMEONE'S BACKYARD. YEAH THE NEIGHBOR'S GOING, WHY IS THAT BACK THERE? YEAH. YEAH. LIKE A STORAGE CONTAINER. YEAH. OR A TRACTOR OR A MOTORHOME OR A MOTORHOME. YOU KNOW, THERE'S VERY, VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT WILL BUILD VERY, VERY FEW. I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S NOT SOME BECAUSE THERE ARE MOST OF THEM ARE IN THAT 1000 TO 1500 SQUARE FOOT. WELL, BECAUSE THERE'LL BE SO MONSTROUSLY EXPENSIVE. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR. I MEAN, IF YOU DRIVE IN WEST JORDAN, YOU'RE NOT SEEING A LOT OF ADUS, PERIOD. RIGHT NOW THERE'S NOT MANY. BUT THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DO WE WANT FOR THE FUTURE? YEAH, I'M THINKING JUST AS A POINT. LET'S SAY SOMEBODY'S GOT AN ACRE, BUT THEY'RE IN AN R1 TEN ZONE. BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF ACRE. IT HAPPENS. IT'S GOT SOME THINGS RIGHT. AND ON THEIR ONE ACRE THEY'VE GOT AN OLDER 2100 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. THEY'VE GOT ALL THIS LAND AND THEY'RE ZONED R1 TEN. SO THEORETICALLY THAT COULD BE FOR LOTS IF THEY WANTED TO SUBDIVIDE. LET'S SAY THEY DON'T. THEY WANT TO BUILD ADUS FOR THEIR KIDS. YOU COULD PUT IF WE LIMITED IT TO 1000FT■, YOU'D HAVE I MEAN IT'S LIKE IT'S LIKE A SPIT IN THE OCEAN, RIGHT? IT'S JUST A LITTLE TINY UNIT ON A GREAT BIG PROPERTY WHERE THEY COULD HAVE IF THEY SUBDIVIDED, THEY COULD HAVE FOUR 2000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSES SUBDIVIDED. WE'RE NOT TALKING ADUS. WELL, RIGHT. BUT BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PRACTICAL EFFECTS OF IT. RIGHT. IF THE PRACTICAL EFFECTS IS THE EFFECT ON WATER, THE EFFECT ON SEWER, THE EFFECT ON NEIGHBORS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WHETHER THEY SUBDIVIDE OR NOT, IT'S HOUSES ON LAND. IT'S PEOPLE IN A PLACE. RIGHT? SO WHETHER IT'S WHETHER THEY GET TO PUT, YOU KNOW, A 3000 SQUARE FOOT ADU OR HOUSE OUT ON THE BEHIND THEIR 2000 SQUARE FOOT, OR THEY HAVE TO IMPROVE THEIR HOUSE FIRST 
          [01:20:02]
AND THEN BUILD A 3000, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IN THAT CASE, YOU'D SAY SUBDIVIDE AND BUILD YOUR FLAG LOT AND AND YOURSELF. I MEAN, YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED ONE ADU. I MEAN, I'M A FAN OF, LIKE KEEPING YOUR KIDS ON THE PROPERTY. I LIKE THIS IDEA. I MEAN, YEAH, THE FAMILY COMING, BUT BUT I, I, I DO THINK IN, IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ACCESSORY, THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, THE USE MUST BE ACCESSORY TO THE MAIN STRUCTURE. I DO THINK THAT THERE'S THESE CONCERNS FROM PUBLIC UTILITIES, AND ESPECIALLY WHERE WE'RE TALKING IN SOME OF THESE AREAS, LIKE YOU'RE MENTIONING COUNCILMEMBER JACOB BLAKE. THOSE ARE PROBABLY OLDER AREAS WHERE THE SEWER AND WATER LINES MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT, SUCH LIKE, LIKE ANOTHER ONE. WHERE'S THE DEVELOPMENT, IF IT WERE TO BE SUBDIVIDED, WOULD NECESSITATE THE UPGRADES TO TO THE UTILITIES AND IMPACT THAT IT WOULD HAVE. SO MY POINT WITH THAT, THOUGH, IS MOSTLY THAT THERE'S NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL. LIKE WE WRITE IT INTO THE CODE AND SAY X NUMBER OF SQUARE FEET OR X NUMBER PERCENTAGE OR WHATEVER IT IS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A, THERE'S GOING TO BE A SCENARIO WHERE THAT DOESN'T WORK. AND SO THAT'S WHY THE SAFEGUARDS NEED TO BE THE UTILITY CAPACITY, THE THE SETBACKS, THE, YOU KNOW, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. THAT'S WHERE I FEEL THAT THE SAFEGUARDS NEED TO BE IN PLACE, AND NOT SO MUCH IN THE, WELL, 1000FT■!S. SOUNDS GOOD. YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW BIG 1000FT■!S IS. IT'S A 20Y 50, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. MICRO HOME. YEAH. MINI MINI MINI HOUSE. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE OKAY. 
          SO DO WE HAVE ANY DO YOU STILL HAVE WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU STILL NEED FROM US I THINK I THINK THAT'S IT. I JUST I'M, I GUESS I'M GETTING THE FEEDBACK THAT IT'S, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD, WOULD LIKE TO PURSUE NECESSARILY. THAT. IN LINE WITH KIND OF WHAT COUNCILMEMBER JACOB'S SAYING, THAT IF WE WERE TO PLACE LIMITS, WE WOULD PLACE THEM ON SETBACKS AND HEIGHT RATHER THAN OVERALL SQUARE FOOTAGE. IS THAT IS THAT KIND OF THE I BELIEVE THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE. IT'S NOT VERY MUCH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. EXPLAIN YOUR I JUST FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE A PERCENTAGE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE SHOULD BE, BUT I FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE A PERCENTAGE OF THE MAIN DWELLING TO MAKE SURE THAT ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEETING THEN. BECAUSE TONIGHT WE'RE JUST TALKING. YES. I'M JUST ONE. RIGHT. LIKE IF COUNCIL SAYS OTHERWISE, I'D BE INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING A LITTLE BETTER WHAT THE STATE SAYS. OKAY. AND THEY THE STATE EVERY LEGISLATIVE SESSION ADDRESSES ADUS. IT'S IT'S IT'S CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT IT LATER TONIGHT WITH YOUR LEGISLATIVE UPDATE, BUT IT IT'S CONSTANTLY IN A STATE OF FLUX. SO WE CAN WE CAN MONITOR IT AND BRING IT BACK. IF THERE ARE UPDATES AND THINGS IT WOULD LIKE AS WELL. BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'VE GOT KIND OF DIRECTION FROM FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE. WHAT'S PROPOSED IN HERE IS. YEAH, LET'S. SO WHAT IS THAT PROPOSING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET FOR ON HERE. WHAT WOULD. YEAH, JUST THE WATER METERS BUT NOT WATER METERS. I THINK THE, THE SECONDARY METERS AND STUFF, I DIDN'T I DIDN'T GET THE IMPRESSION THAT THE COUNCIL HAD ANY ISSUES. SO THE CODE CHANGES ARE THERE FOR THAT ARE GOOD WITH THE CODE CHANGES THAT WERE REDLINED IN THE PACKET. I THINK WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT. YEAH. 
          OKAY. SO YOU GOT FOUR ON THAT. THAT'S I WAS TRYING TO SEE I KNEW THAT WAS THERE BUT I MEANT IT. WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE HAD TO REALLY GIVE YOU A VOTE ON. OR IF YOU JUST GOT THE DIRECTION, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE ANYTHING MORE ON THE MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE OR MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR ADUS, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE STATE DOES? MAYBE REVISIT IT IN THE SUMMER AFTER THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND AFTER THE BUDGET? YEAH, I MEAN, I'D BE OKAY LOOKING AND SEEING WHAT THE SWEET SPOT IS. WHAT WHAT TYPE OF PROPOSALS YOU COULD YOU COULD COME BACK AND JUSTIFY. SO YEAH, IF YOU CAN GIVE US. SEE WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING. I'LL MAKE A POWERPOINT FOR SOMETIME IN JUNE. WE'D LIKE THAT. MAYBE EVEN SOONER IF YOU GET IT. ANIMATIONS, PLEASE. I WILL ABSOLUTELY GO STRAIGHT TO THE SHORT FORM VIDEO EDITING. I MIGHT, I MIGHT NEED TO A COUPLE OF REELS, YOU KNOW. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ON THAT I THINK SO THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NO IT'S NOT. YEAH. YOU KNOW IT'S NOT. 
          SO WHY ARE YOU DOING IT. I WILL GIVE YOU I WILL GIVE YOU A MOMENT TO 30S. GO AHEAD. 
          BECAUSE THESE ADUS IMPACT SOMETIMES WHOLE FAMILIES MOVING IN. THERE'S AN IMPACT. YOU GUYS NEED TO ADDRESS IMPACT FEES ON THESE ADUS. OKAY? OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH. THAT'S TRUE. RIGHT. 
          [c.
 Discussion of West Jordan City Code – Title 6, Chapter 3D, Section 11 – Sale of Animals]
I WILL NOW MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO C DISCUSSION OF WEST GEORGIA CITY CODE TITLE SIX, CHAPTER 
          [01:25:04]
THREE D SECTION 11 SALE OF ANIMALS. LAST TIME WE WERE HERE, WE WE HAD KIND OF OUR OPTION ONE. WE HAD OUR OPTION TWO, WE HAD OUR CURRENT CODE. AND THE COUNCIL'S DIRECTION WAS TO BRING BACK SOMETHING NEW AND IMPROVED SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN OPTION TWO AND OUR EXISTING CODE, I'VE PRESENTED A DRAFT IN THE PACKET TODAY THAT REALLY ADDRESSES THESE FIVE POINTS, WHICH I HEARD FROM THE COUNCIL AT THE LAST MEETING. WE DIDN'T WANT ANIMAL SALES IN PARKING LOTS. WE WANTED SOME VETERINARY AND BREEDER RECORDS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ANIMALS BEING SOLD WERE HEALTHY. THERE WAS DISCUSSION OF A MINIMUM DOG AGE EIGHT WEEKS OLD BEFORE WE SOLD THAT THIS WOULDN'T AFFECT OUR HOME BREEDERS AND WOULDN'T AFFECT LIVESTOCK SALES, OF WHICH THERE ARE STILL HERE IN THE CITY OF WEST GEORGIA. IT IS BEEFIER THAN WHAT OUR CURRENT CODE CALLS FOR. IT IS NOT QUITE UP TO WHAT OPTION TWO WAS, AND SO I FEEL LIKE IT KIND OF HIT THE SPOT BETWEEN WHAT WE HAD DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING AND HIT THE HIGH POINTS OF WHAT THE COUNCIL'S CONCERNS HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED AT THIS POINT, BUT I WANTED TO GET SOME FEEDBACK AND JUST SEE IF THE COUNCIL HAD ANY OTHER DISCUSSION POINTS OR CONCERNS OR THOUGHTS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE CONSIDERED FROM THE PARKING LOT SALES. IS THAT THE PEOPLE THAT JUST SHOW UP IN A PARKING LOT AND SELL THEM ON THE STREET? YEP. I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW WE POLICE THAT. SO THE MAIN CULPRIT WE SEE IS IN JORDAN LANDING. SO WHO'S WHO'S GOING TO SAY, HEY, CALL WESTERN POLICE AND GO TO JORDAN LANDING AND STOP THAT? SO I THINK IT WOULD BE. AND BECAUSE I DON'T SEE IT ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY, I'VE SEEN JORDAN JORDAN CALL AND REPORT WHEN SHE'S THERE TO PROTEST, NOT ON THE PARKING LOT. SO SHE'S SHE'S NEVER SEEN ANYTHING ABOUT PARKING LOT CELLS WHILE SHE'S THERE. SHE'S YOU'RE LUCKY. 
          YOU'RE LUCKY THAT WE HAVE OFFICER RACHEL HERE TONIGHT TO I ENFORCEMENT OF THIS PROVISION WOULD WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE AN ANIMAL CONTROL ISSUE. AND SO I THINK IF IF SOMEBODY DID CALL THE CITY, IT WOULD ROUTE OVER TO ANIMAL CONTROL AND THEY WOULD GO OVER AND SAY, I WOULD GUESS, HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THIS HERE AND YOU NEED TO MOVE ON. AND THEY WOULD SAY, WHY? AND THEY'D SHOW THEM THE CODE. AND IF THEY DIDN'T MOVE OR IF THEY CAME BACK, THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE GROUNDS FOR CITATION TO BE ISSUED, SIMILAR TO THE HOT DOG OR THE TACO CARTS THAT WERE JUST SHOWING UP. WELL, THE HOT DOG AND TACO CARTS WERE WERE LIKE A BUSINESS LICENSING AND SOMETIMES EVEN A LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUE IF THEY WERE ON CITY PROPERTY. BUT YEAH, IT'S JUST ANOTHER MANNER OF ESSENTIALLY CIVIL CODE ENFORCEMENT. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK IS, IS IT LAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO TRANSFER TO ANOTHER BY GIFT EXCHANGE, ANYTHING UPON A SIDEWALK, STREET, ALLEY, PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY OR PARK OR OTHER PUBLIC SPACE? I MEAN, I MEAN, BUT CAN THEY SELL TAMALES TO GET THAT T SHIRT GUY, YOU KNOW, THE OCCASIONAL TRUMP FLAG? WE'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA WE'RE GOING TO BRING SPECIAL LICENSING PROVISIONS TO. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. YEAH, I THINK I THINK IF WE DO HAVE PUBLIC VENDOR SPECIAL LICENSING, WE DO HAVE AGRICULTURAL VENDOR SPECIAL LICENSING. WE DO HAVE TEMPORARY VENDOR SPECIAL LICENSING. SO WE DO HAVE KIND OF AVENUES FOR FOR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE FULLY COMPLIED WITH OR NOT. IT'S IT IS TOUGH TO TRACK DOWN COUNCIL MEMBER SHELTON'S TAMALE SALES AND OTHER PEOPLE. YEAH, YEAH WE BUT IT CAN SOMETIMES IT CAN SOMETIMES BE A CHALLENGE. AND SO I, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT WILL WE WILL WE CATCH ALL OF THE PUPPY SALES IN THE JORDAN LANDING PARKING LOT? PROBABLY NOT. I'M JUST ASKING. 
          I'M JUST ASKING IF WE NEED TO SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT DOG OR CAT SALES IN THIS SECTION, OR IS IT ALREADY ILLEGAL TO SELL DOGS OR CATS IN PARKING LOTS? YEAH, TO SELL ANYTHING. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE HE WAS ADDRESSING YESTERDAY, ACTUALLY, HE CAN'T REALLY DO THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M SORRY. DO YOU DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON, ON THIS PARTICULAR PROVISION. WOULD IT WOULD IT BE HELPFUL OR WOULD IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. YES. WE DO ENFORCE IT REGULARLY. AS MAYOR BURTON SAID HE CALLS ON SATURDAY AND HE SEES IT AND WE MAKE THEM MOVE ALONG. I WORK TWO SATURDAYS AGO AND MOVED THREE PEOPLE ALONG, SO WE DO IT, BUT WE WE DO IT UNDER THE BUSINESS LICENSE VIOLATION SECTION. SO TECHNICALLY WE COULD ISSUE A CITATION. BUT IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE FOCUSING ON THE ANIMAL COMPONENT, BUT IT'S NOT IN OUR CODE. WHEN WE DRIVE BY AND SEE SOMEONE SELLING PURSES DOWN THE ROAD AND OTHER THINGS, WE'RE IGNORING THAT ALL FALLING UNDER THE BUSINESS LICENSE VIOLATION. 
          SO YEAH, IF WE HAD AN ANIMAL SECTION ADDRESSING THIS, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO US. ARE 
          [01:30:03]
THERE OTHER AREAS BESIDES JORDAN LANDING THAT YOU SEE THAT HAPPEN, OR IS IT JUST MAINLY JORDAN LANDING? REALLY? IT'S SPECIFICALLY SAM'S CLUB, IT SEEMS LIKE. YEAH, SAM'S CLUB, THE BIGGEST PARKING LOTS. WELL, IT'S A LITTLE THE PARKING LOTS. RIGHT, JIM. RIGHT. AND THEN PROBLEM TAKES CARE OF IT. THEY CAN SELL THEM IN THE ROUNDABOUTS. IN THE CENTER OF THE ROUNDABOUT. SO DOG PURPOSE WE DO WE DO GET CALLS FROM TIME TO TIME ON OTHER BUSINESSES OPERATING IN THE CITY SELLING PRIVATELY. AND WE ASK THEM TO MOVE ON AS WELL. WE VERY RARELY HAVE TO RESOLVE INTO ANY KIND OF ACTION. SO IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE EVEN NEED OR IS IT TAKEN CARE OF IN ANOTHER PART OF THE CODE? I THINK IT DEPENDS ON IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO. IF, I MEAN, IS IT IS IT UNLAWFUL TO SELL EVEN WITH A LICENSE? AND THE ISSUE IS NO RIGHT. IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT ANY SALES OF ANIMALS IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY OR IN PARKING LOTS, I THINK, I THINK THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN JUST SAYING YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A LICENSE TO DO IT. AND I DON'T KNOW, I MEAN, I DON'T I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY FOR SURE THAT IF SOMEBODY SAID, HEY, I'M A TEMPORARY MERCHANT AND I'M SELLING GOODS AND, YOU KNOW, CRITTERS, THAT IT WOULDN'T FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT THROUGH SOMEWHERE. THAT'S WHAT I'M THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING TOO, IS WITH THE PUPPY STORE THAT KIND OF STARTED THIS WHOLE THING. IF JORDAN LANDING DECIDED TO PROMOTE A SIDEWALK SALE. THEY HAVE A BUSINESS LICENSE. THEY CLOSE NEXT DOOR. WHAT IF WE PASS THIS? THE CLOSED STORE NEXT DOOR WOULD BE ABLE TO PUT SOME RACKS OUT ON THE SIDEWALK AND HAVE THEIR SIDEWALK SALE, BUT THE PUPPY STORE WOULD NOT BE ABLE. BUT THEY ARE LICENSED, BUT IT SAYS IT'S NOT LEGAL ON ANY SIDEWALK. PERIOD. I'M NOT. YOU GUYS WANTED THAT. I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T THINK IT MAKES A BREAK. I'M OKAY IF THE PUPPY STORE DOESN'T HAVE A SIDEWALK. SO YEAH, I'M SAYING IS IT'S EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER. SO LIKE WHAT WE'RE SPECIFICALLY CALLING OUT, IT'S ILLEGAL TO SELL DOGS OR CATS, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT A SPOT IN THE FOOD CODE OR WHATEVER IT IS. THIS ISN'T ABOUT THIS IS JUST ABOUT PETS. EXACTLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          I'M SAYING THIS PART IN HERE, IF IT'S TAKEN CARE OF SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT IT'S UNLAWFUL TO SELL THINGS IN A PARKING LOT WITHOUT A BUSINESS. I MEAN, THE GAS STATION DOESN'T GET TO HAVE ITS BEER OUT ON THE LOT. OFFICER SAID IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR HIM. YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE THIS. TO HAVE THIS SPELLED OUT, I JUST. YEAH, BUT WHY DON'T WE JUST MAKE IT? IT'S UNLAWFUL TO SELL PETS WITHOUT A BUSINESS LICENSE ON THE CITY STREET. IT ALREADY IS. IT IS. IT DEFINITELY IS. OFFICER. EACH WILL NEED ADDITIONAL CODE BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR DOGS. IT'S JUST FOR ANY, ANY SILLY. OKAY, SO IT NEEDS TO BE MORE SPECIFIC I THINK. I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN A COUPLE SPOTS, LIKE SOMETIMES IT'S HELPFUL AS WELL FOR OFFICER OR ONE OF HIS OTHER OFFICERS TO GO OUT TO A SPOT AND SAY, HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, AND THEN HAVE THE PERSON SAY, SHOW ME WHERE I CAN'T DO THIS. 
          AND IT'S NICE FOR THEM TO SAY TITLE SIX, CHAPTER THREE, LIKE SECTION 11, LIKE WE'RE IN THIS SECTION HERE. THIS IS THIS IS WHERE WE'RE WE'RE GOING TO BE. AND YOU CAN READ IT AND THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR APPLICABLE. SO WHAT DO WE NEED A THING HERE UNDER A TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE UNLESS YOU'VE GOT THE SPECIAL PERMIT FROM THE CITY OR SOMETHING. WHAT WE'RE SAYING, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS DOG OR CAT SALES IS, IS, IS UNIQUE. FOR SOME REASON, THE SALE OF DOGS OR CATS IN A PARKING LOT IS UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT THAN SELLING SOMETHING ELSE IN A PARKING LOT. 
          PURSES, TRUMP FLAGS, WHATEVER. RIGHT? RIGHT. WE'RE CALLING THAT OUT. SPECIFICALLY, DOGS OR CATS ARE SPECIFICALLY ILLEGAL. THESE OTHER THINGS, YOU COULD GET A LICENSE AND DO IT. YOU CAN'T DO IT FOR DOGS OR CATS. EVER. PARENTS ARE OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING. ADDING THINGS, SAYING UNLESS YOU'VE GOT THE SPECIAL LICENSE, COUNCIL MEMBER SAYS THAT'D BE GREAT WITH HER AND I DON'T. I'M NOT SURE I DISAGREE. WELL, I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY A LIVE CREATURE. JUST LIKE LIVE ANIMALS. YEAH. INSTEAD OF DOGS BEING SPECIFIC TO DOGS OR CATS, JUST WORMS FOR FISH. THERE IS NO LICENSE AVAILABLE FOR SELLING LIVE ANIMALS. HEY, YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND ALL THE THINGS. I'M JUST SAYING. THAT'S WHY. 
          THAT'S WHY I THINK IN GENERAL, AS AN OVERRIDING PRINCIPLE, THE CODE SHOULD APPLY EQUALLY IS WHY I WASN'T IN FAVOR OF BANNING PROSTITUTION IN A MASSAGE PARLOR. BECAUSE PROSTITUTION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL IN A GOLF SIMULATOR TOO, RIGHT? I MEAN, I, I DON'T LIKE CALLING 
          [01:35:04]
SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES FOR SPECIFIC APPLICATION OF A LAW THAT IS BROADER. YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST THAT'S JUST A PHILOSOPHY. IT'S JUST A IF SOMETHING'S ILLEGAL, IT'S ILLEGAL. IT'S NOT MORE ILLEGAL IF IT'S A DOG OR A CAT, IT'S JUST IT'S THE SAME ILLEGAL. SO MR. BOYCE HAS FEELINGS AS AN ATTORNEY. AS AN ATTORNEY, WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS? HERE'S HERE'S HERE'S MY THOUGHT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT MASSAGE PARLORS LATER. THAT'S ON THE AGENDA. IT IS, IS IT NOT TONIGHT. IT IS TONIGHT. IT IS, IT IS. IT'S TONIGHT. I'VE COME. OH, WE MOVED IT. YEAH. IF IF THE COUNCIL FEELS LIKE THE PUPPY SALES IN THE PARKING LOTS ARE AN ISSUE, I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY OKAY TO PASS A LAW ADDRESSING PUPPY SALES IN THE PARKING LOT. PERFECTLY FINE. WE DO THAT ALL THE TIME WITH A BUNCH OF STUFF. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. IF THE COUNCIL FEELS LIKE IT'S NOT AN ISSUE AND WE JUST ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT UP TO CODE ENFORCEMENT TO ENGAGE WITH THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE BEING OPERATED, I THINK THAT'S FINE AS WELL. I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW, WE HAVE LIKE FOUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. 
          THEY'RE OUT THERE CLEANING UP WEEDS AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF. PROMISE THEY'RE NOT TRACKING DOWN PUPPY SALES IN THE PARKING LOT. SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR AN IMPACT, I PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO GET YOU THERE. BUT I ALSO I ALSO DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS. THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE AN ISSUE WITH ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE I THINK OFFICER AND HIS CREW ARE GOING TO BE A BIT MORE ABLE TO RESPOND AND AND REACT TO THESE SITUATIONS. BUT AGAIN, I THAT'S SOMETHING I SHOULD LEAVE UP TO, TO OFFICER RACHEL AND AND NOT SPEAK FOR HIS, HIS, HIS GROUP. I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR HOW THIS WOULD HELP OR NOT HELP YOUR LIFE. THERE WAS A SITUATION LAST SUMMER WHERE ANOTHER OFFICER HAD ASKED A GROUP TO LEAVE, AND IT WAS A YOUNG ADULT THAT DID LEAVE THE SCENE PROPERLY. THEN THE FATHER CAME BACK TO THE SCENE JUST IN A JUST A BLAZE, JUST REALLY UPSET. WHY? THEIR DAUGHTER WAS ASKED TO LEAVE AND DEMANDED TO KNOW WHAT THE CODE WAS, AND THE OFFICER TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO BUSINESS VIOLATION. IT DIDN'T GO OVER WELL WITH THAT PERSON. I MEAN, IT ENDED UP FLYING IN THE END, BUT IT REALLY JUST IN THAT SITUATION, I THINK IN ALL SITUATIONS WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SHOW THIS IS SPECIFICALLY A VIOLATION TO BE SELLING THESE PUPPIES HERE INSTEAD OF JUST GOING THROUGH THE BLANKET PROCESS OF IT'S A VIOLATION. JOSH, CAN I ADD JUST ANOTHER KIND OF PHILOSOPHICAL POINT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT KIND OF THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF THINGS. I THINK MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS, WE ARE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH AT THE ENFORCEMENT POINT. THERE ARE, HOWEVER, SOME CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO LOOK TO THE CODE AND SAY, CAN I DO THIS? AND THERE'S A DETERRENT EFFECT THAT COMES INTO PLAY WHEN THERE'S A CLEAR PROHIBITION THAT'S STATED IN THE CODE. AND IF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING, SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT'S TAILORED TO THE KIND OF THAT WE'RE TRYING TO STOP OFFERS A DIFFERENT ADVANTAGE THAN JUST A BLANKET PROHIBITION THAT WOULD APPLY TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. IF DAD IS GOING TO BE LOOKING TO THE CODE TO SAY, CAN MY KID DO THIS? FINDING AN ANSWER THAT WILL ADDRESS RELATIVELY CLOSELY THE QUESTION HE'S TRYING TO ANSWER, IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT MORE LIKELY THAT HE FINDS THAT ANSWER. ONE POINT I'D MAKE WITH THAT. AND FOR COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, THIS IS SPECIFICALLY A THING THAT IS SIX 3D 11 SALE OF ANIMALS. IF I WAS LOOKING TO SELL AN ANIMAL AND I WENT TO GO LOOK ON CITY CODE, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD GO TO LOOK FOR IT. AND IF I DIDN'T SEE THAT IT WASN'T ILLEGAL THERE, I WOULDN'T THINK I SHOULD PROBABLY GO TO THE BUSINESS LICENSE PLACE AND SEE IF IT'S THERE. I WOULD INSTANTLY THINK THIS IS WHERE I WOULD FIND THIS PIECE OF CODE. YEAH, WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THIS IN THERE, I THINK DOG OR CAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED WITH LIVE ANIMAL. YEAH. PET WORMS. YEAH. PET. THERE'S A PETSMART, RIGHT? RIGHT. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. YEAH. BUT LIVE, LIVE ANIMAL OR SOME SOMETHING BECAUSE RABBITS, WHICH WE'RE TAKING OUT OF THE CODE SECTION WOULD, WOULD BE THEN. YEAH, IT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED. IT WOULD ONLY BE A BUSINESS LICENSE VIOLATION, NOT A SALE OF ANIMALS VIOLATION. YEAH. THE RABBITS WOULD STILL NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE CURRENT CODE. RABBITS AND CHICKS I THINK ARE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED ARE IS THE REAL ONLY ANIMALS THAT ARE ADDRESSED. AND CHICKS I THINK UP UP TO. I THINK IT EVEN SAYS 
          [01:40:01]
12 WEEKS. NOBODY'S BUYING CHICKS FROM CAL RANCH AT 12 WEEKS, RIGHT? CHICKENS, CHICKENS. THEY'RE FULL GROWN CHICKENS AT THAT POINT. SO I THINK THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WHERE IF YOU WANT TO IMPACT CERTAIN TYPES OF ANIMALS, GREAT. IF YOU WANT TO IMPACT ALL TYPES OF ANIMALS, GREAT. JUST JUST UNDERSTAND THAT OBVIOUSLY LIVESTOCK IS CHICKENS AND RABBITS WOULD NORMALLY BE CONSIDERED ARE SOMETIMES UNDER A DIFFERENT TIMELINE AND GROWTH SCHEDULE AND OTHER THINGS THAN THAN YOUR DOGS AND CATS, RIGHT? WELL, IT'D BE FUNNY TO SEE SOMEONE ON THE CORNER SELLING A COW. I KNOW, YEAH, YOU'RE TREATING IT FOR THE FIVE MAGIC BEANS, RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT. SOME OF THESE, SOME OF THESE MEAT CHICKENS ARE, LIKE, FULL GROWN BY 12 WEEKS. LIKE THEIR THEIR CYCLE IS IS VERY SHORT. SO I. YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D LIKE THAT. I'M MORE CONVINCED THAT CALLING OUT CATS AND DOGS IS APPROPRIATE. I THINK AT LEAST MY, MY TAKE FROM THE COUNCIL'S DISCUSSION WAS THAT WE'RE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT WE'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT UNDER-AGED TURTLES BEING SOLD IN THE PARKING LOT OR, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD STILL BE A BUSINESS VIOLATION. IT WOULD STILL BE A BUSINESS. THIS GOES WITH WHAT YOU'RE THINKING AS WELL. YES, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER TO MOTIVATE. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE OUR JOB TO GO OUT AND DO IT. SO I JUST LIKE LOOKING FOR UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. AND SOMEONE'S GOT TO THERE IS ONE IN HERE THAT'S NOT WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT YET, BUT THIS WOULD NOW ALLOW ARTIFICIALLY DYED RABBITS BECAUSE YOU TOOK THAT PART OUT I DID I DID I, I HAVE NOT KNOWN THAT EASTER EASTER IS GOING TO BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THIS YEAR IS STILL UNDER LIVESTOCK. IF IF YOU'D LIKE IF YOU'D LIKE FOR ME TO IF YOU'D LIKE FOR ME TO ADD IT IN, I CAN DEFINITELY MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE NO ARTIFICIALLY DYED. 
          I'M HAPPY TO ADD IT. YOU HAVE IT SPECIFICALLY, SPECIFICALLY ARTIFICIALLY DYED DOGS AND CATS. 
          I JUST WANT TO KNOW THE SITUATION THAT PRECIPITATED THAT BEING IN THE FIRST PLACE, I THINK. I THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. I AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR OBVIOUSLY, BUT BUT I THINK WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS, IS PARENTS WILL BUY THEIR KIDS LITTLE PASTEL CHICKS THAT ARE GREEN AND BLUE AND PINK. GIVE THEM TO THEM FOR EASTER BECAUSE IT'S CUTE AND IT'S FUN. AND THEN THE CHICKENS GROW UP AFTER 12 WEEKS AND THEY'RE NOT SO CUTE AND THEY'RE NOT PASTEL. 
          AND THEN AND THEN THE PARENTS DON'T WANT THEM. SO THEY TAKE THEM TO DAN AND AND THEY SAY, HERE, TAKE CARE OF MY CHICKENS. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE. I DID SEE A CUTE RABBIT AT THE SHELTER RECENTLY, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN A AN AREA OF CONCERN THAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS. I DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE FOUR WHO ARE OKAY WITH AS WRITTEN. YEAH. I BELIEVE. OH IN EVERYONE IN BUT EXCEPT FOR. YEAH. COUNCILMEMBER JACOB PATRICK CAN I TALK TO THE TO THE VETERINARIAN BREEDER RECORDS I DON'T KNOW. YES. 
          OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE EMAIL YESTERDAY FROM ME ABOUT AND I THAT'S SOMETHING I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT AND I AGREE WITH HIM AND THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE. 
          YEAH JUST THAT THE THAT PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE BREEDER AND HARASS THEM AND AND WHATNOT. 
          BUT I'M CURIOUS AND I CAN'T REMEMBER IF HE ANSWERED THAT AND I DON'T THINK WE ASKED, BUT DO THEY VET THEIR BREEDERS. PROBABLY NOT. AND I DON'T THINK HE WOULD. YEAH. THE PUPPY STORE WHO BECAUSE I, I THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT AND I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG IS THAT REALLY THEY JUST WANT TO TURN A PROFIT. THEY DON'T CARE FOR THE PUPPIES GO TO OR WHO THEY'RE GETTING THEM FROM. THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE. AND THAT'S MY THAT'S MY CONCERN. I KNOW THAT'S LIKE A HUGE, YOU KNOW, A HUGE THING THEY CLAIMED IN A MEETING. I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN, BUT MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT THEY CLAIMED THAT THEY DO VET THEIR BREEDERS AND I SORRY, BUT THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST A VERBAL CLAIMS. YEAH. AND I'VE HEARD DIFFERENTLY. I KNOW THAT WE HAD SOMEONE COME IN AND SAY, BUT I'M LIKE, THAT WOULD BE LIKE ME GOING. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY KNEW BARBARA WAS ON THE CHAMBER, BUT THEY KNOW I'M ON COUNCIL. 
          SO I'M SURE IF I WENT IN THERE AND I'M LIKE, I WANT TO BUY A DOG, THEY'RE LIKE, SHE'S A COUNCIL. LET'S MAKE SURE WE TAKE CARE OF HER KIND OF THING. AND THAT'S SPECULATION. BUT I DON'T KNOW. I WISH THAT THESE THINGS DIDN'T EXIST AT ALL, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. BUT THAT WAS JUST MY QUESTION AND MY THING. ON THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THERE WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL BE HASSLING THE BREEDERS, THEY'RE A BUSINESS. IF THEY PUT OUT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THAT'S BAD QUALITY. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. 
          THAT'S I'M GOING TO CALL A BUSINESS ANY BUSINESS IF I GET SOMETHING. SO IF I NOW I NOW KNOW IF I GO TO THE PUPPY STORE, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DO MUCH. BUT I CAN GO TO THE BREEDER AND SAY, WHAT IS THIS? I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT'S IF 
          [01:45:01]
YOU'RE GOING TO BE A BUSINESS, YOU HAVE TO BE OPEN TO PEOPLE BEING UPSET AT YOUR BUSINESS. 
          IF YOU AND I WILL SAY, IN THE TIME I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL AND THAT HAS BEEN IN THE, IN THE CITY, I'VE NOT HEARD OF ONE COMPLAINT ABOUT A PUPPY BEING A PROBLEM THERE. SEE. AND I WHEN THEY FIRST OPENED, THE FIRST COUPLE WEEKS, WE WENT THROUGH ALL THE TIME AND I HEARD TWO PEOPLE LIKE RIGHT NEAR THE OPENING THAT WERE JUST SO WE'VE AS A FAMILY HAVE NEVER GONE BACK IN THERE. I'M SAYING NOTHING'S BEEN REPORTED. THE CITY. YEAH. BECAUSE BECAUSE PEOPLE GET UPSET AND THEY GO TO THERE. BUT YOU KNOW, WE GET PEOPLE UPSET AT BUSINESSES ALL THE TIME THAT DON'T COME TO THE CITY. THEY'RE UPSET AT THE BUSINESS, AND THEY THINK THAT'S WHERE IT ENDS. ONE OPTION IS THAT THE WAY THE CODE READS RIGHT NOW IS, IS THAT THEY SHALL POST IT IN A CONSPICUOUS LOCATION OR ADJACENT TO THE ANIMAL'S ENCLOSURE AND MAKE AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST. I COULD CHANGE THE ANTENNA AND JUST SAY THAT IF IF IT'S NOT POSTED NEXT TO THE ANIMAL ENCLOSURE, THAT IT BE AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST FROM FROM THE SHOP, I WOULD SAY, OR UPON SALE. I MEAN, IT DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE AT SOME POINT IF IF THAT'S THERE, I MEAN, I'M OKAY WITH THE SWITCHING TO OR BUT THEN MAKING UPON REQUEST OR UPON SALE BECAUSE THAT WAY WE KNOW THAT AT LEAST IT WAS GIVEN TO THE PERSON AT SOME POINT. YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT YOU ASK FOR YOUR CARFAX FOR THE CAR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S UP TO YOU SHOULD BE INCLUDED. BUT ANYWAY, THAT THAT HELP YOU WITH THAT, I THINK THAT DOES HELP A RIGHT. I THINK YOU GOT FOUR ON THAT. FINE. I DO LIKE THE POINT OF SALE THING. THEY'RE GOOD. ALL RIGHT THEN. WELL WE'VE GONE FROM ONE ANIMAL TO NOW. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO INSECTS AS WE'RE 
          [d.
 Presentation from the South Salt Lake Mosquito Abatement District (SSLVMAD)]
GOING TO GO TO ITEM 2D, WE'RE GONNA HEAR ABOUT THE SOUTH SALT LAKE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT WITH AN OLD FRIEND OF OURS. PLEASE WELCOME. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW HARD IT WAS TO SIT BACK HERE ON ADUS. AND I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I LIKED. IT JUST GOING ON FOR A WHILE, BECAUSE I KNEW THAT YOU WERE JUST SQUIRMING THE WHOLE TIME. YEAH, IT'S JUST FUN TO WATCH THAT. 
          THIS CONVERSATION IS SURE TO BUG PEOPLE. YEP. SO THIS PAST THIS PAST MONTH AT OUR MONTHLY MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT BOARD, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR PUT OUT THIS SLIDESHOW ABOUT THE ABOUT HOW THE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT WORKS. AND I AND I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY INFORMATIVE. AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF YOU THAT THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ON THE COUNCIL VERY LONG AND PROBABLY KNOW, AND SOME OF YOU EVEN BEEN AROUND A LONG, DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT OR. WHAT WE WHAT THE WHICH BUTTON DO I PRESS YOU KNOW. OKAY. SO WE GIVE YOU SO I'M JUST GOING TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE. AND SO I REACHED OUT TO BOB AND TO JESSICA'S COUNCIL LEADERSHIP AND SAID, HEY, WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED. AND. SO THEN WE ALAN CALLED ME AND SAID SOME THINGS GOT MESSED UP ON THE AGENDA. WE WILL FIT YOU IN THIS WEEK. SO. MOSQUITOES IN SALT LAKE VALLEY HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER. IF YOU NOTICE, THERE WAS AN OGDEN STANDARD ARTICLE THAT SAID, IF NOT FORESEEN THE FUTURE, HE'D KILLED THE MOSQUITOES AND WOULDN'T WOULDN'T HAVE LET THEM BE ON THE ARK. SO IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW, GREAT SALT LAKE HAS OVER 400,000 ACRES OF WETLAND HABITAT. THAT'S 625MI■!S. AND II REMEMBER RIGHT, WEST JORDAN, 32MI■!S. SO THAT PUTS IT IN PERSPECTIVE. UTAH LAKE UP INTO THE 70S HAD WETLANDS. AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THE JORDAN RIVER THAT RUNS ON OUR EAST SIDE OF THE BOUNDARY IS. HAS PLENTY OF WETLANDS. NOT ENOUGH THIS YEAR. YEAH. THERE WE GO. YOU CAN SEE WHERE ALL THE WATER RUNS IN THE VALLEY. THAT'S ALL THE TRIBUTARIES AND CREEKS AND STREAMS AND DRY WASHES AND EVERYTHING. IS THAT ALSO CANALS? YES, I BELIEVE I BELIEVE IT IS. 
          YES. IF YOU DIDN'T. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT, THE HEADQUARTERS IS ACTUALLY LOCATED HERE IN WEST JORDAN. IT'S OVER ON THE WEST SIDE OF AIRPORT ROAD, DOWN DOWN TOWARDS PAST THE ENTRANCE. AND THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT LIVES JUST ACROSS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ACROSS FROM PUBLIC WORKS. SO IT'S GOT GOOD TIES TO WEST JORDAN. THAT'S WHY I NEVER HAD MOSQUITOES IN MY 
          [01:50:05]
HOUSE SO CLOSE TO ME. YOU HAVE. BUT MOSQUITO ABATEMENT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE OF THE DISEASES IT CARRIES. THE DISTRICT IS ACTUALLY ESTABLISHED. THE INITIAL LEGISLATION FOR MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICTS WAS PASSED BACK IN 1923. IN 1947. AND BY THE WAY, IT'S STILL AROUND. THERE STILL IS THE UTAH MOSQUITO ABATEMENT ASSOCIATION. 
          THEY HAVE A CONFERENCE EVERY YEAR. AND THERE ALSO IS AN AMERICAN MOSQUITO CONTROL ASSOCIATION THAT HOLDS NATIONAL EVENTS. IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING. CHECK OUT THOSE GOOD LOOKING HATS. I WAS JUST WONDERING WHERE THEIR TOMMY GUNS ARE. GOT COPIES OF EVERY ONE OF THOSE. I WONDER IF THAT'S NOT IN THE PICTURE WITH THE SHADOWED FACE. YEAH. GREAT. 
          LOOK. MOSQUITO MAFIA, DOUBLE VESTED COAT. MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW WAS FOUNDED IN 1952, BUT IT WAS CHANGED FROM THE SOUTH SALT LAKE COUNTY MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT TO THE VALLEY DISTRICT TO TOE IT, TO DIFFERENTIATE THAT IT'S NOT TIED TO SALT LAKE COUNTY. THE DISTRICT BOUNDARIES 17 CITIES, FOUR TOWNS ROUGHLY RUNS FROM 21ST SOUTH TO THE POINT OF THE MOUNTAIN, AND THERE ARE TWO OTHER MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICTS THAT OPERATE IN SALT LAKE COUNTY. THERE'S MAGNA THAT'S TO OUR NORTH WEST, AND THEN THERE'S SALT LAKE CITY TO THE NORTH OF US, IN OUR IN OUR MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT, WE SERVE A POPULATION OF ABOUT 1.1 MILLION PEOPLE. AND SO IT'S REALLY YOU CAN SEE WE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA. THE FULL TIME STAFF. DAN MCBRIDE LIVES IN. JORDAN. WE HAVE SOME OF THE OTHER STAFF SCOTT, ERIC. JUDD, KEVIN. SOME OF YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE WHO OUR FINANCE AND HR DIRECTOR ARE BECAUSE SHE WORKS FULL TIME FOR THE CITY. SO THERE'S ANOTHER TIE WITH THE CITY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW CASSIE, YOU HAVE TO GET TO KNOW CASSIE. AND THEN WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF SEASONAL STAFF WITH THE WITH THE DISTRICT. THE MISSION IS TO MINIMIZE MOSQUITO NUISANCE. AND REALLY THE MOSQUITO THE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT IS A PUBLIC HEALTH. IT'S ACTUALLY A PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCY. 
          THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO GET RID OF MOSQUITOES SO WE DON'T GET SICK. THE MOST PREVALENT IS THE WEST NILE VIRUS AND SAINT LOUIS. BUT WE ALSO HAVE ALL KINDS OF OTHER DISEASES THAT HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH MOSQUITOES, INCLUDING MALARIA, DENGUE FEVER, CHIKUNGUNYA AND ZIKA. AND A COUPLE OF THOSE ARE NASTY. AND THERE'S BAD AS THEY SOUND WITH THEIR NAME. WE ACTUALLY HAVE 38. 
          IF YOU DIDN'T, THIS IS CRAZY. IF YOU KNOW SOMEBODY ACTUALLY GOES OUT AND FIGURES THIS OUT, WE HAVE 38 SPECIES OF MOSQUITOES IN THE DISTRICT. TWO OF THEM ARE ACTIVE CARRIERS FOR DISEASE. MOSQUITOES GO THROUGH A PROCESS PROCESS WITH METAMORPHOSIS. THREE OF THEM ARE AQUATIC AND WATER BOUND. AND THE DISTRICT DOES FOCUS MOST ON THE IN THE PREVENTATIVE MEASURES DURING THE LARVAL AND PUPAL STAGES. LAST YEAR. AND THIS IS WHAT SCARED ME. LAST YEAR WE ACTUALLY HAD SOME MOSQUITOES. THERE'S A MOSQUITO TRAP DOWN JUST BY GARDNER VILLAGE, AND WE ENDED UP FINDING OUT THAT WE HAD SOME WEST NILE VIRUS MOSQUITOES IN THAT AREA, SO IT IS ACTUALLY REAL. THE DISTRICT USES AN INTEGRATED MOSQUITO MANAGEMENT. 
          MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT IS VERY GOOD AT ENGAGING WITH THE COMMUNITY. THEY HAVE BEEN TO SOME OF OUR EVENTS. THEY THEY GO TO THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND HOLD EVENTS. BUT THE THE ABATEMENT DISTRICT, IF THERE'S ANY EVENT THAT YOU WANT THEM AT, LET ME KNOW. LET DAN KNOW AND WE CAN HAVE SOMEBODY THERE. THERE'S THERE'S THE FIVE STEPS THERE. THEY USE. THE ONES THAT I WANT TO POINT OUT ARE THE VERY LAST BULLET ON, ON THE SCREEN IS THAT THE MOSQUITO 
          [01:55:04]
ABATEMENT DISTRICT ONLY USES CHEMICAL AGENTS WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. TRY WE TRY. THE ABATEMENT DISTRICT TRIES TO GET RID OF MOSQUITOES IN A MYRIAD OF DIFFERENT WAYS BEFORE WE HAVE TO USE THE CHEMICALS OR THE INSECTICIDES. QUESTION. KELVIN. YES. DO THEY ANTICIPATE THAT THIS COMING YEAR WILL BE BETTER MOSQUITO WISE BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SO DRY? NO, REALLY, IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE, BUT THERE THERE ARE. WHEN THERE'S LESS WATER, THERE ARE LESS PLACES FOR MOSQUITOES. BUT THOSE MOSQUITOES CONGREGATE HEAVIER AND ARE MORE LIKELY TO CARRY DISEASE. WOW. SO IN A DRY YEAR, MOSQUITOES ARE ACTUALLY WHEN THEY CARRY THE CARRY THE DISEASES. MOSQUITOES ARE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN IN A HEAVY, WET YEAR. AND IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE. I'LL GET UP. OKAY, I JUST WANT TO CHIME IN HERE WITH THAT ASPECT OF WATCH FOR STANDING WATER AROUND YOUR HOME ANYWHERE. I HAD A GENTLEMAN IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, WAYNE WILLIAMS, A KIND OF A DEAR FRIEND OF MINE WHO PASSED AWAY FROM WEST NILE VIRUS. SO IT'S VERY ACTIVE IN THE AREA. IT CAN AFFECT YOU WHEN YOU LEAST SUSPECT IT. AND IT'S WHY, WITH OUR DETENTION PONDS DESIGNS, WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ELIMINATING THAT WATER AND DRAINING IT OUT IN 72 HOURS. SO WE DON'T HAVE STANDING WATER. THIS IS A MAP THAT SHOWS YOU WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE ALL THE THE COUPLE OF YEARS, A FEW YEARS OLD, BUT WE HAVE TRAPS WHERE THEY THEY DO THE MOSQUITOES AND CHECK OUT MOSQUITOES AND ALL THOSE DIFFERENT PLACES ACROSS THE DISTRICT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OH, THERE WE GO. AND SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE THERE ARE 52 TRAPS THEY GET THEY RUN WEEKLY. THEY'RE THERE'S TARGET TRAPS TO SEE THE FEMALES, OTHER TRAPS TO GET THE EGGS AND MONITORING THE INVASIVE SPECIES. AND BY THE WAY, IF YOU WANT ALL THE DATA, YOU CAN GO TO THE THE DISTRICT'S WEBSITE AND GET MORE DATA THAN YOU PROBABLY EVER WANT. THE DISTRICT. AND BY THE WAY, IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT A TOUR OF THE THE BUILDING, LET DAN KNOW. LET ME KNOW. WE CAN WE CAN GET YOU A TOUR. THE THE DISTRICT HAS ITS OWN LABS OUT THERE AND DOES MOST OF THE THE WORK THEMSELVES WITH THE BACKUP FROM THE THE STATE LABS. AND THEY USE THE I HAVE NO IDEA THE TECHNICAL TERMS, BUT THEY USE THOSE TO MONITOR THE WEST NILE, THE SAINT LOUIS AND THE WESTERN EQUINE ENCEPHALITIS. AND. LET'S GET THAT. IT'S REAL INTERESTING. YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU GET TO SEE ALL THE MOSQUITOES AND. THEY ALSO THEY ALSO DO RESEARCH INTO PESTICIDE RESISTANCE. MOSQUITOES. MOSQUITOES DO. MOSQUITOES DO BECOME RESISTANT TO PESTICIDES. 
          AND I KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT LAST SUMMER WAS THE MOSQUITOES THAT WERE BEING TREATED UP FARTHER NORTH IN SALT LAKE, WERE RESISTANT TO SOME OF THE CHEMICAL, SOME OF THE THINGS WE WERE TREATING IN WEST JORDAN, AND THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE CHANGES AND IF MOSQUITOES WOULD DRIFT AND HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT, BECAUSE MOSQUITOES DO MIGRATE FAR ENOUGH THAT IT BECOMES A PAIN. SO THE, THE, THE ABATEMENT DISTRICT HAS WHAT'S CALLED THE URBAN CREW. AND THESE PEOPLE GO OUT AND ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE MOSQUITO MITIGATION IN THE HIGHLY URBANIZED AREA. WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING, IF YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT COUNTERINTUITIVE, AND I HEARD SOMEBODY SAY THIS AT A, AT A, AT OUR TRUTH AND TAXATION MEETING IN, IN DECEMBER IS, WELL, WHY DO WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT? WE'RE ALL BUILD UP AND WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MOSQUITOES. THAT'S ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE. 
          WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MORE WITH THE URBANIZED THAN WE DO. IF WE WERE UNDEVELOPED LAND ACROSS THE ACROSS THE COUNTY, AND THESE THIS CREW, THEY THEY ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE FOCUS IN 
          [02:00:01]
IF PEOPLE HAVE LARGE PONDS IN THEIR BACKYARD, THAT COULD BE MOSQUITO BREEDING GROUNDS OR THOSE KIND OF THINGS. THE THE ABATEMENT DISTRICT WILL HELP THEM WITH THE WITH THE PONDS AND TREE HOLES AND ANIMAL TROUGHS. WE ACTUALLY WE ACTUALLY OVERSEE ALMOST 2000 PONDS. WOW. AND ABOUT 1600 ANIMAL TROUGHS. SO YEAH. OH HI TECH KELVIN. AND YOU CAN SEE THE HIGH TECH TOOLS THEY USE. HIGH TECH LOW BANDWIDTH. HEY. THINK ABOUT ALL THOSE MOSQUITOES IN YOUR BACKYARD. WHAT DO THEY DO WHEN THEY FIND A POOL LIKE THAT. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THIS CREW MEMBER IS RELEASING THESE FISH. THOSE FISH EAT MOSQUITOES AND MOSQUITO LARVAE, AND THEY ATTACK THEM, AND THEY ACTUALLY KILL THE MOSQUITOES BETTER THAN IF THEY WERE TO PUT PESTICIDES AND INSECTICIDES IN THE WATER. AND SO THE MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT ACTUALLY GROWS. THOSE FISH BECAUSE THEY WILL EAT THOUSANDS OF MOSQUITOES APIECE TO KILL MOSQUITOES. SO IT'S ONE OF THE IT'S ONE OF THE AND THESE AND IF I, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, THESE FISH ARE KIND OF LIKE A STERILIZED. THEY DON'T GROW, THEY DON'T BREED. AND SO THEY GET PLANTED, THEY EAT THE MOSQUITOES AND THEN THEY'RE DONE. YEAH. KELVIN. THEY USED TO IF YOU HAD A POND THEY USED TO SUPPLY THEM FOR YOU. YES THEY DO. THEY STILL DO. THEY STILL DO THAT. OKAY. WITH THAT, WE'LL ANNOUNCE THAT COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK WAS ABLE TO JOIN ME. WILL YOU JUST FORWARD. SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT EXPLAINS HER COMMENT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WERE. WHAT? SOMETHING HAPPENED. OH, MICROSOFT PRODUCTS AT ITS FINEST. CAN YOU JUST ACT IT OUT? YEAH, YEAH. 
          HUM. SO THE MOSQUITO LIFE CYCLE, PLEASE. AND INTERPRETIVE DANCE. YES. THERE'S ALSO A RURAL CREW THEY'LL GO AFTER AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL INSPECT MOSQUITOES. AND THE CONTROL IS CLEARLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING. THE MESSAGE YOU'LL NOTICE IS THAT WE'RE TRYING NOT TO USE PESTICIDES. 
          AND IT'S IT'S LIMITED. YOU HIT NEXT ONE. IN WEST JORDAN ALONE. AND THEY DO THIS AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR. THERE ARE OVER 30,000. WHAT DO YOU CALL THEM, DAVE CATCHMENTS. THE LITTLE THE LITTLE DRAIN GRATES. THERE'S ONLY 30,000 OF THOSE INSIDE THE DISTRICT. THERE'S OVER THERE'S THERE'S THERE'S THOUSANDS OF THOSE. THERE'S 30,000 OF THEM IN THE CITY THAT THEY GET. ALL RIGHT. NEXT IT'S FROZEN. YOUR SERVICE AREA. YEAH. IT'S 30,000 CATCH BASINS NOW. IT'S FROZEN. 
          THE SKIP THAT. IT'S NOT COLD. LET'S JUST SKIP THAT. THE LAST THE LAST THING AND IT'S THE LAST. IT'S THE THE THING OF LAST RESORT IS THAT THE DISTRICT DOES HAVE SOME FOGGING EQUIPMENT TO GO THROUGH A NEIGHBORHOOD AND FOG, BUT THIS IS A LAST RESORT EVERY THE DISTRICT TRIES TO USE EVERYTHING ELSE TO ELIMINATE THE MOSQUITOES WHEN THEY GO AROUND. AND IF YOU I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER SEEN THEM. ALMOST ALL OF THE MITIGATION CREWS ARE IN DIRT BIKING CLUB. THEY, THEY, THEY THEY RIDE AROUND ON IT. THEY RIDE AROUND ON BIKES AND THEY GO FROM DRAIN CATCHMENT TO DRAIN CATCHMENT, DROPPING A PACKET OF A PACKET OF MOSQUITO KILLER INSIDE THE DRAIN CATCHMENT. AND, AND SO I'LL PUT IN A PLUG FOR FOR THE PUBLIC WORKS. THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE REALLY WANT TO 
          [02:05:05]
ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO THE ADOPTED DRAIN PROGRAM AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, BECAUSE IT HELPS THE WATER DRAIN FASTER. IF IT GETS CLOGGED, THEN IT THEN MOSQUITOES CAN BREED. AND SO HIT NEXT WILL YOU AND I WANT TO MENTION THE ADOPTED DRAIN PROGRAM IS A GREAT PROGRAM. 
          WHAT WHAT CHEMICAL ARE THEY SPRAYING THAT I CAN'T TELL YOU? I DON'T KNOW ALL THE TECHNICAL STUFF. TOP SECRET. NO, IT'S IT'S IT'S IT'S WELL ABOVE MY HEAD, I CAN TELL YOU, BUT YOU'D HAVE TO SPRAY YOU. YEAH, BUT I BET YOU THE THE DISTRICT DOES TRY TO DO A LOT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION. AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IF, IF THE, IF THE CITY WANTS, WANTS THE DISTRICT TO COME TO A CITY EVENT, THEY'LL BE MORE THAN, LET'S SHOW UP, GO AHEAD AND HIT. THEY'VE BEEN TO A FEW CITY EVENTS IN THE PAST, AND THAT'S WHAT I HAVE. BUT IT'S LIKE I SAID, IF IF YOU'RE INTERESTED AND YOU WANT TO, YOU WANT TO TOUR THE BUILDING AND SEE THE LABS AND WHAT THEY DO OUT THERE, LET ME KNOW. BUT IT I THINK THAT THE BIGGEST MESSAGE, THOUGH, AS, AS DAVE SAID, IS IF PEOPLE CAN KEEP THE STANDING WATER DOWN IN THEIR BACKYARDS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE TREES, YOU KNOW, TREE SWINGS THAT ARE MADE OUT OF OLD TIRES AND YOU DON'T THINK THAT THAT WATER WOULD COLLECT AND THEN YOU'D HAVE MOSQUITOES IN THERE. AND SO IF THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THAT. LIKE RAIN BARRELS, A LOT OF PEOPLE START TO DO RAIN BARRELS, RIGHT? AND THEY HAVE RAIN BARRELS RUNNING OFF THEIR. WELL, WHAT YOU GOT TO DO IS WHAT'S RAIN. WHAT'S RAIN. YEAH. ONE DAY THAT IT'S ACTUALLY GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE, THE WAY YOU, THE WAY YOU PROTECT THE RAIN BARRELS FROM MOSQUITOES IS JUST PUT A GOOD SCREEN OVER THE GRATES. IF YOU PUT A REAL FINE SCREEN OVER THE GRATES, IT PREVENTS MOSQUITOES. SO THAT. BUT IF YOU IF THE MESSAGE OBVIOUSLY IS, IS THAT WE WANT TO TRY TO TO KEEP MOSQUITOES DOWN BECAUSE MOSQUITOES ARE DEADLY THEY THEY CAN MAKE PEOPLE SICK AND THOSE ILLNESSES SHOW UP AND BE PART OF YOUR MEETING AND HELP US EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT MOSQUITO ABATEMENT DISTRICT AND AND REITERATE THE FACT THAT CHEMICALS ARE THE LAST RESORT AND. YEAH, IF THEY'RE GOING TO FOG A NEIGHBORHOOD TO GIVE NOTICE, YEAH. I DON'T I'LL HAVE TO COME THROUGH. I'LL FIND OUT AND I'LL FIND OUT AND LET YOU KNOW. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANSWER. I'VE NEVER SEEN A NOTICE BEFORE. 
          THEY FOG AND I HONESTLY AND I LIVE CLOSE TO THE RIVER. THEY'VE NEVER FOGGED MY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I KNOW OF. SO. AND YOU'RE AWAKE AT ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT, SO. OH, YES, I AM. 
          I KNOW THIS WAS A GREAT PRESENTATION, AND I ESPECIALLY LOVED IT BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE AN OVERLAP OF MY PARTS OF LIFE. SINCE I AM AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND I FOCUS ON VECTOR-BORNE DISEASES. SO IT'S VERY FUN TO SEE WEST NILE AND CHIKUNGUNYA AND DENGUE AND ALL OF THOSE CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS. THANKS FOR WALKING US THROUGH THAT. VERY SO MOST FUN AT PARTIES KELVIN, ALWAYS A PLEASURE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANKS FOR CONTINUING TO SERVE ON THIS. THANK YOU COUNCIL IT IS. WE'VE GOT ONE LAST THING WE WERE GOING TO HAVE. 
          UNFORTUNATELY ADAM IS STUCK IN TRAFFIC. WE DO HAVE JOSH WHO CAN PRESENT. I WILL JUST PUT IT TO A VOTE ON NEW COUNCIL. WE COULD EITHER TAKE A BREAK, GET SOME FOOD AND THEN HAVE JOSH BE OUR DINNER ENTERTAINMENT WHILE WE EAT, AND HE CAN RUN US THROUGH THAT. OR WE CAN, OR WE CAN GO THROUGH ABOUT 15, 20 MINUTES AND THEN GET SOME FOOD AFTER. FOOD FIRST. I'M FINE. 
          EITHER WAY. FOOD. SO LOOKS LIKE WE'RE A FOOD FIRST GROUP, SO THEN WE WILL NOW BREAK FOR RECESS. RECESS FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES WHILE WE GO GET SOME STUFF, AND THEN WE WILL BE PLEASED TO HAVE MR RECESS IS OVER. HOPEFULLY YOU GOT ON THE SWING SET FOR A LITTLE WHILE. BACK TO CLASS. BACK TO CLASS, EVERYBODY. WE'VE GOT A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER IN. WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE JOSH CHANDLER, BUT NO DID WE WE WE UPGRADED THE THE DISTRICT SENT TO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. ADAM GARNER IS HERE TO GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT'S GOING ON 
          [e.
 Legislative Update]
ON THE HILL. SO ADAM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BRAVING THE TRAFFIC. WE APPRECIATE IT. 
          THANK YOU. I'M SO SORRY I'M LATE. COMMITTEES ARE STILL GOING, AND I LEFT A COUPLE EARLY AND STILL GOT HERE LATE, SO. OH. FOR TWO. OKAY. PROPERTY TAX STUFF. THE JOE KOFOD BILL 
          [02:10:03]
IS STILL DEAD. AND THINGS JUST ARE MOSTLY DEAD IN THE SESSION. EVERYTHING CAN BE REVIVED. 
          MIRACLES ARE REAL. YEAH. WHICH ONES ARE COMING AT THE 11TH HOUR. SO I DON'T THINK THAT THAT ANYTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN THERE. SO I THINK WE'RE GOOD. SPEAKING OF RESURRECTION, HB 184, THIS IS THE SMALL LOTS AND STARTER HOMES AMENDMENTS. THIS IS THE ONE WE GOT THE CALL TO ACTION AND WE KILLED IN COMMITTEE. IT CAME BACK AND WAS KILLED AGAIN. AND COMMITTEE. 
          BUT A COUPLE OF MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE HAVE TEXTED THEIR MAYORS AND SAID, YOU KNOW, LET THIS BE KIND OF A WARNING. CITIES BETTER SHAPE UP OR WORKING ANYWAY. THEY'RE STILL NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE OF WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT. AND SO WE WILL CONTINUE, CONTINUE TO PREACH TO THEM WHY IT'S IMPORTANT. IT FEELS LIKE THIS DIE. TAKE THE ENTIRE HILL ON OUR BUS TOURS. IT'S JUST IT'S PHILOSOPHICAL EVERY HOW MANY ARE THERE? 300 OR SOMETHING? THERE IS 104. DID A BIG BUS JUST. JUST GET A SCHOOL BUS. SO THREE TO A SEAT LIKE THEY DO. I ACTUALLY TRIED TO DO SCHOOL BUSSES AND I WAS LIKE, DO IT. AND THEY TOLD ME NO COUNTY FORMATION AMENDMENTS. THIS IS THE ONE THAT I SAID, YOU GUYS NEED TO BE AWARE OF. THIS IS A JORDAN TUSCHER BILL TO TALK ABOUT SPLITTING THE COUNTY. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF NEGOTIATION WITH HIM. HE HAS BEEN AWESOME IN NEGOTIATING WITH US. THEY CHANGED THE THRESHOLD FROM 333,000 TO A THIRD OF THE COUNTY HAS TO BE CONTIGUOUS. SO THE NUMBER IS UP ENOUGH TO WHERE IT'S WE MENTIONED THOSE FOUR OR SO CITIES THAT ARE CONTIGUOUS THAT GET TO 334,000. THE THIRD NUMBER, I'M TOLD, MAKES US ADD ANOTHER CITY OR TWO INTO THAT NUMBER. SO THEY CAN'T QUITE CREATE THE, THE, THE NEW COUNTY THAT THEY WANT THAT. SO SALT LAKE DROPPED THEIR SALT LAKE COUNTY DROPPED THEIR OPPOSITION TO THE BILL AND STOPPED WORKING. 
          IT PASSED THE IT PASSED THE HOUSE AND IS ON TO THE SENATE. IS THERE ANY APPETITE IN THE SENATE TO ALTER IT TO MAKE IT WORK? I DON'T THINK I MEAN, THAT IS THEY'RE MAKING IT WORK THAT SO I DON'T BUT IT'S A TOOL THAT I DON'T THINK CAN BE CAN BE USED AT THIS POINT. AT THIS POINT, I JUST DON'T SEE THE NUMBERS THERE FOR A CONTIGUOUS LIKE WHERE DO YOU DRAW THAT? COTTONWOOD HEIGHTS DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE SAME, YOU KNOW, SO YOU START GETTING FURTHER AND FURTHER EAST AND IT STARTS LOOKING THEATER. I SAY THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO BE IN A COUNTY WITH PEOPLE ON THE WEST SIDE. WE'RE ALREADY IN A COUNTY WEST SIDE. WE'RE JUST A BIG, HAPPY FAMILY. YOU WOULD WANT TO DO IT AGAIN. TRUTH AND TAXATION AMENDMENTS HB 236 REPRESENTATIVE KAREN PETERSON. THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS WORKABLE. DENISE HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS BILL PRETTY HARD. REPRESENTATIVE TOM PETERSON'S THERE ARE 400 PETERSON'S IN THE LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR. AND AND SO REPRESENTATIVE TOM PETERSON WHO WAS ON A CITY COUNCIL, HIS BILL IS LOOKING LIKE IT'S NOT GOING TO PROGRESS. AND WE DON'T WANT MULTIPLE CONFLICTING DATES. SO THERE EITHER HAS TO BE A CRAZY COORDINATING CLAUSE IN THE BILLS, OR YOU JUST NEED TO STICK ELEMENTS OF TOM PETERSON'S BILLS INTO KAREN PETERSON'S BILLS. THAT I BELIEVE IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THE DATES I DO NOT BELIEVE FROM TOM PETERSON'S THE ONES THAT ARE UNWORKABLE. LIKE, YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO RAISE PROPERTY TAXES IN APRIL, WHICH WE DON'T KNOW, AND WE DON'T HAVE A BUDGET TO WORK OFF OF, ETCETERA. BUT SOME OF HIS THINGS HE WANTS TO PUSH FOR, NOT NECESSARILY DATES ARE GOING TO BE PUSHED INTO KAREN PETERSON'S BILL. THE BILL WAS CIRCLED ON THE HOUSE FLOOR. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE. THE SENATE IS TAKING, LIKE WE'RE JUST GOING TO HANG OUT AND WATCH TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS DO IN HOUSE, AND THEN WE WILL DECIDE WHAT WE WANT WHEN IT COMES BACK OVER. THE REASON THEY'RE CONTENT WITH WAITING IS BECAUSE MOST OF THE BILLS ARE COMING FROM THE HOUSE. REALLY, THE BIG PROPERTY TAX BILL IN THE SENATE IS COMING FROM SENATOR DAN MCCAY. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM QUITE A BIT. THERE IS ANOTHER SUBSTITUTE BILL COMING. WE OUR POSITION SHOULD BE PENDING ON THIS BILL UNTIL WE SEE IT. LET ME SEE IF I CAN FIND THE NUMBER. BECAUSE I STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT. I WON'T BE ABLE TO FIND IT. SB 97. 
          SO IT WAS CIRCLED. WE GOT A LOT OF STUFF THAT WE WANTED IN THERE. THE, THE, THE EGREGIOUS 
          [02:15:03]
LANGUAGE THAT WE STILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS NOT BEING ABLE TO PUT PROPERTY TAX MONEY INTO THE CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND. WE'RE STILL WORKING ON ALL THIS STUFF. WE ONLY HAVE SEVEN DAYS LEFT, EIGHT DAYS LEFT IN THE SESSION, WHICH IS CRAZY. A LOT OF LIKE 50 YEARS IN HUMAN YEARS. 
          BUT IT'S ALSO WE'RE REALLY WE'RE REALLY RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE. AND IF YOU DON'T PASS AT LEAST ONE COMMITTEE BY NEXT MONDAY, YOUR BILL IS PROCEDURALLY MOSTLY DEAD. YOU CAN STILL STICK ANY BILL INTO ANOTHER BILL UNTIL UNTIL THE SINE DIE, UNTIL THE LAST UNTIL MIDNIGHT ON THE LAST DAY. SO WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THAT PROCESS. THE LEAGUE HAS BEEN HEADING THAT OFF. I KEEP PUSHING JUST THAT PERSPECTIVE REALLY HARD ON THE CAPITAL PROJECTS FUND. AND THE LEAGUE HAS BEEN AND CHAMBERS HAVE BEEN PRETTY WORKING ON HIM ON ALL THE OTHER STUFF. THE INTEREST PART, THOUGH, WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO REDUCE OUR PROPERTY TAX BY ANY INTEREST EARNINGS, I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN. THIS BILL STATES THAT HE'S GOING TO REDUCE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE BY ANY INTEREST EARNINGS FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR. YES, 10% OF GROWTH. YES. I THINK THAT THE OH EXCUSE ME I'M LOOKING AT THE WRONG BILL. YEAH I THINK THE INTEREST PART CAME OUT IN THE I THINK IT DID TOO. OKAY. I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IT CAME KIND OF IN A TRADE ON THE CAP BECAUSE WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT, BUT NOT THE 5%. WE HAVEN'T BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT. THAT'S STILL IN THERE. THE 5% CAPS IN THERE AND THE CAPITAL PROJECTS IS STILL IN THERE. OKAY, LET ME DO SOME LET ME DO SOME FOLLOW UP. THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK. THE INTEREST IS A BIG PROBLEM. THEY'RE TAKING ONE TIME REVENUE AND REDUCING ONGOING REVENUE BY THAT AMOUNT. AND THEN SAYING YOU CAN'T INCREASE PROPERTY TAX. 
          WELL WHAT IF YOU GET NO INTEREST EARNINGS THE NEXT YEAR, REDUCING OUR INCENTIVE TO TRY TO MAXIMIZE OUR CASH HANDLING PROCESS. YEAH. AND THAT'S MAYOR I MEAN HE HE'S VERY HE DOESN'T WANT THE CITY TO HAVE ANY CASH ON HAND. HE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO HAVE EXTRA MONEY. HE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO HAVE. YES. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS VERY FOND FOR THAT MONEY. WHAT IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY? WHAT IF WE HAD, LIKE THE BIG EARTHQUAKE AND WE HAVE NO MONEY? HE HAS A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. HE DOESN'T HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT THAT HE PERSONALLY. YEAH, HE JUST LIVES. 
          HE SAID GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT ACT LIKE BUSINESS AND SHOULDN'T ACT LIKE A HOME. HE'S WRONG. SO THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THE BILL. BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE, SENATOR MCCAIN, WE ARE WE ARE WORKING ON IT. THAT HE IS HE IS I MEAN, HE HE FILED THE BILL. AND THEN I CALLED AND SAID, HEY, I GOT SOME PROBLEMS. HE'S LIKE, WE WELCOME YOU TO THE TABLE. LIKE, I KNOW, I KNOW, I WANT TO SEE WHAT EVERYONE'S DOING. I WANT EVERYONE TO COME. AND COUNCILMEMBER JACOBS COULD TALK ABOUT THAT AS WELL TOO. HIS WHOLE PURPOSE ON THIS BILL IS TO SAVE PROPERTY TAX FROM ALL THE OTHER LEGISLATORS WHO ARE TRYING TO GET RID OF. I AM TRYING TO SAVE PROPERTY TAX. 
          THE PROPERTY TAX STRUCTURE IS HOW HE SEES IT. IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT, COUNCILMEMBER JASON. ALL RIGHT. HE MADE SOME GOOD POINTS. HE HE'S A HE'S A BELIEVER. I MEAN, LIKE IT'S HARD TO TALK HARD TO ARGUE WITH THAT. TRANSPORTATION AMENDMENTS SB 242. THIS IS AN OMNIBUS BILL THAT'S PASSED EVERY YEAR IN TRANSPORTATION BY SENATOR HARPER. ONE THING THAT WAS KIND OF CONCERNING THAT WE SAW AS HE HE ENCIRCLED THE BILL ON THE SENATE FLOOR LAST NIGHT AT ABOUT 5 OR 6 LAST NIGHT, AND AN AMENDMENT WAS PASSED BY SENATOR COLMAR, WHO JUST SAID, HEY, WE WANT TO PROTECT FIFTH OF THE FIFTH MONEY. THAT'S TRANSIT MONEY THAT THE COUNTIES HAVE TO VOTE ON. COUNTY GOVERNMENTS HAVE TO VOTE ON TO COLLECT FIFTH AND FIFTH MONEY THAT COULD BE USED FOR TRANSIT. AND THE COUNTIES GET TO DIRECT HOW THAT MONEY IS SPENT. SENATOR COLMAR STOOD UP, MADE AN AMENDMENT AND SAID, I HAVE AN AMENDMENT TO MOVE A LOT OF THAT FIFTH OF THE FIFTH MONEY, BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLARIFIED THAT IT CAN BE SPENT ON TRANSIT, BUT WE WANT TO MOVE THAT INTO THE COUNTY OF THE FIRST CLASS HIGHWAY ROAD FUND, BECAUSE THAT'S ADMINISTERED BY THE STATE. BUT NOWHERE IN THE AMENDMENT. NO, NO ONE KNEW THAT THIS WAS COMING. BUT NOWHERE IN THE AMENDMENT DOES IT SAY THAT IT SHOULD BE SPENT ON TRANSIT. THE FIFTH OR THE FIFTH MONEY IS FOR TRANSIT, AND THE COUNTIES GET TO DECIDE WHERE IT GOES. AND HE WANTS THE LEGISLATURE TO DECIDE WHERE THAT MONEY GOES. 
          SOME OF THE CONCERNS WE'RE STILL TRYING TO GATHER RIGHT NOW. WE ARE PROMISED MONEY IN THAT FIFTH OF THE FIFTH FOR BUS SERVICE ON 5600 WEST, AND IF WE DO NOT COMPLETE THE 5600 WEST, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO MOUNTAIN VIEW. SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS ANYWAY, THAT WAS 
          [02:20:01]
SENATOR HARPER SAID. I SEE THAT AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. AND SO IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY IN THE SENATE. I DON'T KNOW. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SENATOR COLMAR IS THE MAJORITY LEADER. SO THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEADERSHIP PUSHING THAT WHEN THAT FIFTH OF THE FIFTH WAS PUT IN THERE, IT WAS GOING TO GO TO TRANSIT. THAT HAD TO BE VOTED ON BY THE PEOPLE, AND IT WAS GIVE TRANSIT FUNDING. CAN THEY JUST CHANGE THAT EVEN THOUGH IT GOT VOTED ON? YEP. OKAY. YEP. THEY CAN. 
          OKAY. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THERE. THERE'S THERE'S A BILL. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ IT AND READ THE KEY CHANGES. WHY IT MATTERS HB 586 IT IT IS IT IS A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT TRANSIT CONTINUES TO BE FUNDED. HE WAS PUT ON THIS PROJECT BY THE SPEAKER AND THE PRESIDENT TO TO HAVE NEW LIKE TO HAVE FUNDING SOURCES FOR TRANSIT TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GO IN THE RED. 
          AND HE'S BEEN WORKING VERY HARD WITH KIND OF CHANGE THE STATE FUNDING WITHOUT RAISING TAXES. 
          IT'S AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A HIGH LEVEL OF AGREEMENT AMONG STAKEHOLDERS THAT THIS IS THE BEST PATH FORWARD. HE'S TRYING TO SELL IT TO MEMBERS OF HIS HIS CAUCUS. WE'RE WAITING TO SEE HOW THAT SHAPES OUT. BUT I ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ THROUGH IT AND AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS. 
          THE LAST THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT FROM MY SIDE IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILLS. PHYSIS, FIRST TIME HOME INFRASTRUCTURE ZONES. A LOT OF THESE A LOT OF THESE ZONES AND DIFFERENT PROJECTS, TOOLS THAT THE LEGISLATURE GAVE US WHEN CITIES USE THEM. THEIR ARGUMENT IS CITIES ARE GIVING TOO MUCH AWAY. YOU'RE USING THEM IMPROPERLY. AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT. BUT HE SAYS WE'RE GETTING RID OF ALL THESE. THE HORSES IN THERE TOO, THOUGH, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          THEY'RE GETTING. YES. YEAH. SO THEN WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEED. SO WE ARE NOW CREATING THE DADDY OF THEM ALL ZONES. IT'S CALLED THE REGIONALLY SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT ZONES. 
          AND THIS IS GOING TO HAVE KIND OF THE SAME LIKE STYLE FRAMEWORK, BUT IT ALLOWS THE STATE TO HAVE MORE OF A SAY, TELL US WHAT TO DO WITH DOESN'T TOUCH IT DOESN'T TOUCH CRAS. 
          BUT ANY OF THESE TYPES OF OF TOOLS. YES. IT ALLOWS THE STATE TO INSERT THEMSELVES AND IT CHANGES WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO. YOU CAN DO UP TO 60% INCREMENT FOR 25 FOR 25 YEARS. 
          SO THEY CHANGE IT. BUT ANY FOCUSING MOSTLY ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OR ARE THEY LOOKING AT CONTROLLING EVERYTHING IN THAT. YES. OKAY. I THINK TO BOTH OF THOSE THEY'RE SAYING. THERE'S THE TIF COMPONENT. AND THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE STATE WILL GET TO ACTUALLY TAKE A PORTION OF THE TAX INCREMENT WHEN THEY SIGN OFF ON THESE. SO THEY'RE LOWERING THE AMOUNT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO OFFER, WHICH IS 60%. THEY'RE TAKING SOME OF IF THEY'RE GOING TO DO ALL THIS AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE COST. YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT WORK. 
          SO THAT IS A PROBLEM. AND IT'S THE CAP REALLY. SO I SENT THIS SLIDE DECK TO YOU. THAT EXPLAINS IT BETTER THAN I EVER COULD. JUST BARELY LIKE WHILE WE WERE IN THIS MEETING. THE BILL NUMBER IS 507. AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS SLIDE IN THE THAT I SENT TO ALL OF YOU. 
          THERE ARE A LOT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILLS. THERE'S GOING TO BE A CRAZY COORDINATING CLAUSES ON ALL OF THESE. SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO TOTALLY SHAKE OUT. BUT IN HERE IT'S KIND OF EXPLAINING. SB 206 IS DOING A TAX INCREMENT FINANCE TRANSPARENCY PRODUCT. THAT'S KIND OF GOING TO BE THE COORDINATING PLACE. IT'S GOING TO SAY, HEY, ALL THESE BILLS THAT WE HAVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE PASSING, WE'RE SHIFTING THEM INTO, WE'RE CHANGING THE DISCLOSURES ON THEM, THE REPORTING ON THEM, AND WE'RE SHIFTING THEM INTO THIS BILL. WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU HOW WE DO THAT. WHY WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT TO THEM THIS SESSION? THEY FEEL LIKE I THINK IF THEY'RE USING A PROPERTY TAX 
          [02:25:02]
ARGUMENT, THEY'RE SAYING YOU CITIES ARE POORLY USING THEIR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOLS, GIVING AWAY TOO MUCH OF THEIR INCREMENT, AND THEN NOW DON'T HAVE THE BUDGET TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE AREAS AND ARE RAISING PROPERTY TAXES. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THEY'RE RAISING PROPERTY TAXES. WE DON'T LIKE THAT. THAT CAME UP IN THE IN THE HEARING, IN DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WITH WITH STAKEHOLDERS. SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM. AND THESE ARE ALL STILL BEING WORKED ON. ALL OF THESE ARE STILL BEING WORKED ON. THERE IS ANOTHER BILL BY REPRESENTATIVE ROBERTS. I'LL FINISH HERE. THAT AGAIN I CAN'T FIND. WHERE WE WE TALKED ABOUT THERE WAS A $70 MILLION THAT WERE AVAILABLE FOR CITIES TO APPLY TO THE STATE TO RECEIVE FUNDING, INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDING, AS LONG AS IT HAD AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT. 
          WE HAVE A REAL OPPORTUNITY AS A CITY THAT I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. AND TO BE FRANK, I THINK THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORTATION FUNDING. THEY'RE RAISING THAT AMOUNT IN THAT BANK FROM 70 TO $140 MILLION. 
          SO THEY'RE DOUBLING THE PRICE. SO WE HAVE PROJECTS THAT WE REALLY CARE ABOUT THAT NEED TO HAPPEN. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS MONEY. BUT IT'S GOT TO HAVE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT TO IT. THEY'RE NOT SUPER STRICT RIGHT NOW ON WHAT THAT COMPONENT IS. 
          SO WHEN THIS PASSES, THAT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF A PROJECT. I THINK FOR US, IF WE WANT SOME INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY, SORRY, IS THAT GRANTS OR IS IT NO INTEREST LOANS. BOTH IT THERE'S BOTH OPTIONS AVAILABLE. THE 70 MILLION RIGHT NOW IS GRANTS. AND SOME SOME AREAS HAVE RECEIVED VERY VERY SIZABLE GRANTS. SO FOR SENIOR CENTERS SENIOR NOT FOR. NOT FOR THAT, BUT FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE PIECE ON ANY ANY AFFORDABLE HOUSING ANGLE WE CAN FIND. I THINK THAT'D BE APPROPRIATE. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME WE HAVE LEFT, BUT THERE ARE TWO OTHER ISSUES. ONE, I THINK IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT OF THE SESSION, AND THAT IS TORT AMENDMENTS THAT EVERYONE HATES. AND WE THOUGHT WE WERE WORKING OUT A DEAL AND THEN WITHOUT TELLING ANYONE, THEY QUICKLY UNCIRCLED IT, PASSED IT AND SHOT IT OVER TO THE HOUSE. OH COME ON. SO I WILL SAY THAT WE'RE WE'RE IN THE LAST EIGHT DAYS HERE. EVERYTHING HAS TO HAVE AT LEAST A COMMITTEE HEARING, LIKE I SAID, BY MONDAY OR THE BILL IS PROCEDURALLY DEAD, BUT YOU CAN SUSPEND THE DEAD. NOTHING IS DEAD UNTIL THE LAST DAY, BUT YOU CAN SUSPEND THE RULES AND LIFT THINGS OUT OF COMMITTEE. IF YOU HAVE ONE COMMITTEE HEARING FROM THE HOUSE BEFORE IT GOES TO THE SENATE, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY GOING TO SKIP YOUR SENATE HEARING. IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, ALL THE RULES WILL BE SUSPENDED, IN EVERY BILL WILL JUST BE LIFTED. AND THE LAST THREE DAYS EACH EACH BODY, THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE CONTROL EACH OTHER'S BOARD VOTING BOARD. SO THE HOUSE DOES NOT GET TO CONTROL WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON. THE SENATE IS CONTROLLING, SO THEY WILL WIPE THE BOARDS ON THURSDAY, SO IT'LL BE COMPLETELY EMPTY SO WE WON'T KNOW WHERE ANYTHING IS. AND THEN LEGISLATORS WILL BE ASKED TO PRIORITIZE THEIR BILLS ONE, TWO, THREE AND THEN GIVE THEM TO THE RESPECTIVE WHIPS. AND THEN THEY PRIORITIZE THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE BOARD AND THEY PLAY POLITICS. ON THE LAST DAY, YOU GUYS AREN'T PLAYING PASSING OUR BILLS FAST ENOUGH. WE ARE GOING TO SLOW DOWN. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A WALK. LITERALLY. THE SENATE GOES MOTION TO SAUNTER AND WALK OUT. AND SO THEY'RE ARGUING ABOUT WHICH BILL, WHICH IS GETTING PASSED FASTER. A LOT OF THE BAD BILLS THIS YEAR, I THINK WE'VE DONE REALLY GOOD. WE'VE KILLED HB 501, THE WATER BILL THAT WE ALL HATED. WE STILL HATE IT. WE WANT EVERYONE TO BE CLEAR. BUT IT'S IT'S IN A MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH BETTER SPOT. WE CAN LIVE WITH IT. WE, WE MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF HB 501, THE WATER BILL. SO WE'RE IN A BETTER SPOT IN THE HOUSE. AND THE SENATE ARE KILLING A LOT MORE BILLS THIS YEAR IN THE RULES COMMITTEE, EVERY BILL GOES TO THE RULES COMMITTEE AND THEN IS ASSIGNED TO A STANDING COMMITTEE. LEADERSHIP IS SAYING THIS BILL STAYS HERE, IT'S NOT GETTING OUT, AND YOU'RE KILLING A LOT OF BILLS. WE'VE ONLY PASSED ABOUT 175 BILLS. WE EXPECT OVER 500 TO PASS. WE 
          [02:30:03]
HAVE EIGHT DAYS LEFT. SO TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF HOW MANY ARE FLYING THROUGH RIGHT NOW, I'M NOT EVEN HALFWAY THROUGH THE SESSION. YEAH. ACCURATE. YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT TALK? YEAH. SO SB 212 11 WHICH BASICALLY REFORM THE WAY THAT TORT DAMAGES CAN BE AWARDED IN A PERSONAL INJURY CASE. AND WHAT IT WOULD DO IS IT WOULD TAKE THAT AWARD OF DAMAGES AND MOVE IT AWAY FROM WHAT THE DEFENDANT ACTUALLY HAD TO PAY AND TO ALLOW WELL AND PUT THE SOLE FOCUS ON WHAT THE KIND OF STANDARD CUSTOMARY RATES ARE FOR SERVICES THAT COULD BE PROVIDED. SOMETIMES THIS IS REFERRED TO AS PHANTOM DAMAGES, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS THE DEFENDANT TO RECOVER MONEY THAT THEY HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SPENT, OR IF IF WHAT THE DOCTOR ACTUALLY CHARGED THEM WAS LESS THAN WHAT THE STANDARD RATE WOULD BE. AND IT WOULD ALSO PROHIBIT A DEFENDANT FROM BEING ABLE TO INTRODUCE ANY EVIDENCE OR HAVE ANY DISCUSSION OR ANY CONTEMPLATION WHATSOEVER OF THE ACTUAL EXPENDITURE OF THE PLAINTIFF IN REGARD TO THEIR DAMAGES, AND THAT IT WOULD ALL BE DONE OFF OF THIS SEPARATE CALCULATION. THE CONCERN ACROSS MANY, MANY INDUSTRIES AND ACROSS MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS IS THAT THIS WILL LIKELY RESULT IN HIGHER VERDICTS BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY PAY, WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME OTHER NUMBER, AND THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THAT NUMBER WILL ALWAYS BE LARGER THAN WHAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY PAYING, BECAUSE IF THEY ACTUALLY PAID MORE THAN THE CUSTOMARY DAMAGE, THEY WOULD RECOVER THAT. ANYWAYS, TO ME, THIS FEELS LIKE IT'S BEING DRIVEN BY A KIND OF NARROW, SPECIFIC, SPECIAL INTEREST THAT LOOKS TO PROFIT A LOT FROM THIS TRIAL LAWYERS. 
          YEAH, YEAH, LAWYERS BE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT. LIKE ADAM SAID, IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS DEAD. AND THEN IT HAS FOUND NEW LIFE JUST WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS. MY HOPE IS THAT THERE WILL BE KIND OF GENERAL OUTCRY ACROSS THESE OTHER PRIVATE SECTOR INDUSTRIES THAT ALSO STAND TO LOSE IF THIS GOES THROUGH. THE DEFENSE BAR IS OPPOSED TO IT. AND SO MY MY HOPE AND EXPECTATION IS THAT THOSE VOICES WILL BE ENOUGH IN ORDER TO STOP THIS FROM ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH. BUT WHEN WE GET LATE IN THE SESSION, SOMETIMES THINGS JUST FIND A WAY TO GET PASSED. WHEN PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN SUPPORT OF THEM. SO JUST KIND OF AS AN OVERARCHING THING IN THIS LAST WEEK AND A HALF THAT WE HAVE HERE, THERE MAY BE A NEED FOR KIND OF QUICK RESPONSE, REACHING OUT TO LEGISLATORS TO LET THEM KNOW WHY WE DON'T LIKE SOMETHING. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ONE OR OTHER BILLS, FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT AT ANY TIME. I'M HAPPY TO SPEAK TO YOU. I'M HAPPY TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT PROBLEMS THAT I SEE IN ANY OF THE BILLS. AND AND WE'LL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO WEATHER THE NEXT LITTLE BIT HERE. CAN I TALK ABOUT ONE OTHER ONE? ADAM TALKED MADE REFERENCE TO REPRESENTATIVE TAUSCHER EARLIER AND HOW HE'S BEEN GOOD TO WORK WITH ON SEVERAL DIFFERENT THINGS. I'D LIKE TO GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HB 366, WHICH IS A BILL THAT HE HAS PUT TOGETHER IN ORDER TO TO ADDRESS A CHALLENGE THAT SEVERAL CITIES HERE IN THE THIRD DISTRICT HAVE HAD IN COORDINATING OUR MUNICIPAL CRIMINAL PROSECUTION CASES. WHEN THEY GET TO THE DISTRICT COURT. WE'RE IN NEGOTIATIONS RIGHT NOW WITH THE DISTRICT COURT TO TRY TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE, BECAUSE REPRESENTATIVE TAUSCHER WAS WILLING TO RUN THIS BILL AND TO TO KIND OF FORCE THE ISSUE FOR US. AND SO WE'RE REALLY GRATEFUL FOR HIS HELP WITH THAT. 
          MY HOPE IS THAT THE BILL WON'T ACTUALLY BE NECESSARY, AND THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET EVERYBODY ON THE SAME PAGE BEFORE IT ACTUALLY PASSES. BUT IT IS MOVING FORWARD. SO IF YOU SEE REPRESENTATIVE TUSHA, I WANT TO TELL HIM, THANKS FOR SOMETHING. THAT'S ONE I APPRECIATE. ALSO, HE'S BEEN WONDERFUL ON ALL THE UKRAINIAN STUFF THAT I BROUGHT TO HIM TO GET THERE. SO HE'S BEEN GREAT. I WAS WATCHING A PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY AND ON UKRAINE AND THERE'S LIKE THE SPEAKER, THE PRESIDENT, THE GOVERNOR AND JOSH. RIGHT. I DID NOT KNOW THAT'S WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. I WAS STANDING IN THE JOINT. JOSH. YEAH, BUT YOU CLEARLY WERE DRESSED FOR IT. I WAS I KNEW I WAS GOING TO BE UP ON THE HILL, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS GOING TO BE AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE. SO IF YOU FIND IT COOL, VERY COOL. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE ARE WELL OVER OUR. 
          SORRY. NO. THAT'S FINE. NO, THIS IS GREAT. I THINK WE GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION. WE'VE GOT 15 MINUTES BEFORE COUNCIL STARTS. SO EVERYONE TAKE CARE OF WHAT YOU NEED TO ON THAT. I WILL
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.