[00:00:03]
          VERY NICE. NO. GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO OUR COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING OF WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF FOR APRIL 14TH, 2026. WE HAVE ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS AND ATTENDANCE AND SEVERAL MEMBERS OF OUR CITY STAFF. EXCITED TO GET THIS GOING. OUR FIRST DISCUSSION 
          [a.
 Discussion on Future Land Uses at Rodeo Arena Site]
TOPIC IS GOING TO BE ITEM TWO A. THIS IS A DISCUSSION ON FUTURE LAND USES AT THE RODEO ARENA SITE. I THINK FOR THIS, KENT SHELTON AND I ARE THE PRESENTERS ON THIS. I'M GOING TO LET KENT TAKE OVER, BUT THIS IS REALLY THE REASON WE HAVE IT IN THIS PLACE IS BECAUSE OUR NEXT TOPIC IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE RESIDENT SURVEY, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS LIKE WE MIGHT WANT ON THAT. SO IT FELT GOOD TO PUT A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS RIGHT BEFORE THAT TO HELP US WITH ANY QUESTIONS WE MIGHT HAVE. WE ALSO HAVE CORBIN HERE WHO CAN GIVE US A LITTLE QUICK RUNDOWN BEFORE WE GET TO THE ACTUAL PRESENTATION. SO LET ME TURN IT OVER. LET'S START WITH. YEAH, I'LL FILL IN ANY HOLES. JUST A LITTLE HISTORY ON THIS. I. BACK IN FEBRUARY, I TOOK A FORMAL FORMER CARMEL, INDIANA MAYOR JIM BRAINARD AROUND OUR CITY. AND PART OF THAT TOUR WAS THIS SPACE AROUND THE RODEO GROUNDS AND BEHIND THE ARTS CENTER. AND HE WAS EXCITED TO SEE ALL THE UNDEVELOPED GROUND THAT WAS SO CLOSE TO OUR CITY CENTER. AND I SAID TO HIM, HEY, NO, ACTUALLY, OUR CITY CENTER IS SLATED FOR EAST OF REDWOOD ROAD. NOT NOT OUT HERE. AND HE'S LIKE, WELL, YOU GOTTA LOOK AT THIS HOLISTICALLY, MY FRIEND. AND SO HE SPOKE TO HIS FRIEND WHO IS. PROMINENT CITY PLANNER JEFF SPECK. THAT IS HIS NAME IS VERY SMALL NAME. RIGHT. AND MR. SPECK WAS BACK HERE IN UTAH RECENTLY TO LOOK AT THE PROGRESS OF A COMMUNITY THAT HE DESIGNED CALLED UTAH CITY. UTAH CITY IS IN. IN. I WAS WONDERING WHAT THAT WAS. IT'S JUST LIKE A DAYBREAK. OKAY. YEAH. LIKE THEY CHANGED THE NAME OF IT. IT'S JUST PART OF A BIGGER SCALE. OKAY. YOU'RE STILL JUST LIKE BIGGER. ANYWAY. DURING OUR CONVERSATION. WELL. WHEN JEFF SPECK WAS IN, IN UTAH, HE REQUESTED A MEETING WITH CORBIN AND PAUL, AND THEN THEY INVITED ME TO COME ALONG TO. AND. HE HE WAS VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE RODEO SPACE AS WELL AND SUGGESTED THAT WE COULD MOVE IT. 
          AND I'LL JUST SAY THIS, THAT JIM BRAINARD AND JEFF SPECK ARE NOT EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO THE TRADITION OF HAVING THE RODEO WHERE IT CURRENTLY SITS. SO THEY SEE IT WITH DIFFERENT EYES THAN PERHAPS HOW WE SEE IT. BECAUSE I KEPT ON, YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST WHEN JIM FIRST SUGGESTED JIM BRAINARD FIRST SUGGESTED MOVING THE RODEO GROUNDS TO ME WAS KIND OF OFF PUTTING. SO I'M SUSPECTING THAT YOU ALSO MIGHT FEEL THAT WAY. BUT AFTER LISTENING TO THEIR EXCITEMENT OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT? WHAT THEY THINK, YOU KNOW, HOW WE COULD MAKE IT BETTER AND HIGHER USE FOR THAT LOCATION INSTEAD OF SOMETHING THAT'S JUST USED A FEW TIMES A YEAR? WE DECIDED WE MIGHT BRING IT BACK TO CITY COUNCIL. IN SPEAKING WITH WITH CORBIN, AND PAUL DECIDED MAYBE WE SHOULD BRING THIS BACK TO CITY COUNCIL AND, AND ASK WHAT WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS MIGHT BE. HAVING VISITED DOWNTOWN CARMEL. INDIANA, I BELIEVE WHAT THEY'RE ENVISIONING COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE HIGH DENSITY HOUSING MIXED WITH SHOPPING, HOTELS, PLAZA AND ADDITIONAL FACILITIES FOR THE ARTS WHILE MAKING THE ENTIRE AREA MUCH MORE WALKABLE. 
          SO THIS IS. THESE ARE JEFF'S TEXTBOOKS. THIS IS THE ONE I'M CURRENTLY READING CALLED 
          [00:05:04]
SUBURBAN NATION. AND. THIS IS HIS OTHER BOOK CALLED WALKABLE CITY. SO HE'S A SOUGHT AFTER. 
          HE'S A SOUGHT AFTER URBAN PLANNER AND DESIGNER. AND IT'S REALLY AN HONOR TO HAVE HIM INTERESTED IN OUR CITY TO SAY THAT. SO, MR. LEE, SO TO COUNCIL, I THINK IT WAS TWO COUNCIL MEETINGS AGO. I CAME TO THE COUNCIL AND SAID, OKAY, WHAT WHAT DO YOU WANT TO INCLUDE IN THIS RODEO STUDY? JUST ARENA STUDY. AND THE NUMBER ONE TAKEAWAY I GOT FROM THAT CONVERSATION WAS YOU CAN INCLUDE AND CONSIDER ALL THINGS, BUT RODEO HAS TO BE A PART OF IT. WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THE RODEO. AND IN MY MIND, I ASSUMED, OKAY, IF WE'RE NOT GETTING RID OF THE RODEO, IT'S STAYING HERE. HOW DO WE MAKE THE BEST OUT OF IT POSSIBLE HERE AT THIS SITE WITHOUT MOVING SITES? BECAUSE TO MOVE IT INVOLVES LAND ACQUISITION AND OTHER THINGS AND EXPENSIVE. AND SO WE WERE ALL SET. WE WERE WRITING AN RFP TO LOOK FOR A CONSULTING TEAM THAT WAS FOCUSED ON SPORTS ARENA MAXIMIZATION, SPORTS ARENA UTILIZATION, WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE SPORTS ARENA IS THE RODEO ARENA, AND IT STAYS RIGHT HERE AND COVERS ALL THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT IN OUR LAST MEETING. AND THEN TWO DAYS LATER WAS WHEN WE HAD THIS MEETING WITH JEFF SPECK, WHO'S WHO SAID, I'M GOING TO PUT WORDS IN HIS MOUTH. BUT HE ESSENTIALLY SAID, RODEO IS A LOW RODEO IS A GREAT LAND USE, BUT IT'S A LOW INVESTMENT. LAND USE ON YOUR HIGH INVESTMENT PART OF LAND. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF INSTITUTIONAL ASSETS HERE BETWEEN THE PARK, THE REC CENTER, THE LIBRARY, CITY HALL, COURT BUILDINGS, AND THEN THIS REALLY LOW, LOW INVESTMENT LAND USE RIGHT NEXT TO IT THAT DOESN'T GET A LOT OF USE AND ISN'T HIGH DOLLAR INVESTMENT PER SQUARE FOOT. AND HE KIND OF SAID, YOU WANT US TO DO YOUR DOWNTOWN HERE, START IT HERE WHERE IT'S EASIER TO DEVELOP. 
          YOU ALREADY OWN THE LAND. YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO ACQUIRE LAND. YOU ALREADY HAVE THESE INSTITUTIONAL ANCHORS. START YOUR DOWNTOWN HERE AND GROW IT ACROSS THE STREET. I DON'T KNOW IF WE I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE, IF THAT WOULD WORK. SCOTT AND I WERE KIND OF DEBATING IF YOU CAN START IT HERE AND GROW, GROW IT HERE AND ACROSS THE STREET BOTH IF THIS WOULD BE A CATALYST. BUT THE QUESTION IS THAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE. DO YOU WANT TO STUDY THAT? IF SO, THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT STUDY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONSULTING TEAM THAN SPORTS VENUE. THAT'S A LAND USE CONSULTING, LAND USE URBAN PLANNERS. WE HIRE SOMEONE LIKE JEFF SPECK AND A TEAM LIKE THAT TO SHOW US WHAT COULD IF IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS AREA AND NOT TALKING ABOUT RODEO AND NOT TALKING ABOUT NECESSARILY GROWING THE VETERANS PARK INTO THE RODEO ARENA, BUT RATHER GROWING THE DOWNTOWN TO SURROUND VETERANS PARK AND TRY TO MAKE VETERANS PARK A SURROUNDED PARK WITH DOWNTOWN TYPE OF USES. THEN WE'RE HIRING DIFFERENT CONSULTANTS AND WE'RE DOING A DIFFERENT STUDY COUNCIL. WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT US TO GO ON THIS? I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. THIS PROPERTY WAS SET ASIDE FOR GREEN SPACE. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT LIKE MAYBE DEED RESTRICTED. OH, THAT'S THE FIRST THING WE HAD TO CHECK, HAVEN'T YOU? CLAIMED TO HAVE THIS PARK? AREA? AND I DON'T KNOW, I JUST KNOW THAT IT WAS IT WAS SET ASIDE FOR THAT PURPOSE. AND NUMBER TWO IS WE ALREADY HAVE A PARK MASTER PLAN. THAT'S WHAT. AND BECAUSE IF WE'RE DOING THIS, WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING THE REST OF THE GREEN SPACE. SO FOR ME, THERE'S A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. FIRST OF ALL, IF POSSIBLE. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. YEAH. NUMBER TWO, I, I'M GUESSING IT WOULD BE ALL OF THE AREA THAT YOU'D WANT TO DO. NUMBER THREE. AND WE NEED TO REPLACE NOT JUST IF WE NEED TO REPLACE, NOT JUST FOR RODEO GROUNDS, BUT APART FOR THE EAST SIDE OF THE CITY. BECAUSE WHEN WE SAY MIXED USE, I'M PRETTY SURE I JUST LOOKED UP VINEYARDS. I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IT WOULD BE VERY HIGH END RESIDENTIAL. AND IF I'M LIVING RIGHT, LIKE THAT'S. PART THAT PART. ADDING 
          [00:10:02]
THAT MANY MORE UNITS, RIGHT HERE WHERE IT'S WALKABLE. VETERANS PARK IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMEWHERE. I'M GOING TO BRING MY FAMILY ANYMORE BECAUSE IT ALWAYS IS. AND SO WHAT I THINK THERE'S, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO CONSIDER IT, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME ANCILLARY THINGS THAT WE ALSO NEED TO CONSIDER, NOT JUST, HEY, WE WANT TO MOVE FOR RODEO GROUNDS. 
          I THINK THERE'S A WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF GREEN SPACE? HOW DO WE MAKE UP FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE EAST SIDE AND THAT LOSE THOSE AMENITIES THAT WERE. PART. WHERE WHERE ARE WE GOING TO? SO THAT I'M JUST GOING TO GO. SO LOOKING AT THAT PICTURE, THAT'S ALL I'VE EVER SEEN OF THAT SPACE, EXCEPT WHEN THERE USED TO BE A SUGAR FACTORY THERE. AND I USED TO DO PLAYS IN THAT. 
          I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING THAT EVEN MADE THAT LOOK LIKE THAT WAS EVER GOING TO BE A GREEN SPACE. SO WAS THERE. AND I'LL GIVE YOU A SECOND. MAYOR, WAS THERE EVER A TIME THAT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ALL TRADED OUT AND BECOME A GREEN SPACE? SO FOR. EVERYONE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN AMPHITHEATER, THERE WERE GOING TO BE, I DON'T KNOW, AT ONE TIME A SPLASH PAD WAS BOUGHT OVER THERE. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY STUDY, BUT SOMEWHERE I'LL BET MR. LANGFORD'S COULD PROBABLY KNOW WHERE THE STUDIES ARE REAL QUICK THOUGH. MARY, YOU WANT SOMETHING? OH, I WANT MAYOR FIRST. SORRY. BACK WHEN MAYOR EVANS WAS THE MAYOR. THERE WAS TALK ABOUT DOING PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THAT. AND THERE WAS STRONG OPPOSITION IN THAT. CITY. ATTENDED. SO JUST BE AWARE. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONE, BUT A LOT OF THEM ARE STILL AROUND. AND AT THAT POINT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TURN THAT PART INTO. THAT'S WHEN THEY CAME UP WITH THE PLANS TODAY. THEY BACKED OFF THAT AND CREATE WHAT WE HAVE TODAY THAT WAS GOING TO BUILD. THIS AREA IS THERE, AND THAT'S WHEN THEY MOVED THE RODEO TO WHERE IT IS NOW. OKAY. NO, NO. THAT'S JUST. MR. LANGFORD, THE PARK'S MASTER PLAN. SORRY. I WAS TEXTING DAVE CLEMENTS TO TRY AND FIND ANSWERS ABOUT YOUR DEED RESTRICTIONS. I BELIEVE CORY'S TEAM WAS REVIEWING THE LAST PARTS. YEAH, YOU'RE NODDING WHEN WE PRESENT THIS. AND WE HAD SO MUCH RIGHT AS I STARTED AND FINISHED UP WHERE I WAS, A CONCEPTUAL DESIGN SHOWING THE SPLASH PAD, PICKLEBALL COURTS, IT WAS NEVER ADOPTED AS AN OFFICIAL MASCOT, BUT THAT ONE THAT I. THERE IS AN OLD. THAT'S QUITE. YEAH. THAT THE REASON WHY I WAS NEVER FULLY ADOPTED. THERE IS AN OLDER VETS MASTER PLAN WHICH DOES SHOW ALL THAT AREA. GREEN SPACE BUILT OUT THE PARK SURROUNDING THE SWIMMING POOL. YEAH. BECAUSE WHEN WE BEFORE YOU AND I GOT ON AND THEY WERE GOING TO PUT THE THEATER OVER NEXT TO 70, 78, THERE WAS A DEED ISSUE PUTTING IN THERE THAT WAS NO. THERE WAS ALSO AN ISSUE WITH TURNING THE PARK GREEN SPACE INTO. AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS OKAY OVER HERE. SO I THINK I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I THINK THIS AREA YOU CAN DEVELOP, I JUST I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DEVELOP THE PARK AREA. I THINK IF THERE'S ANY IF THERE'S ANY RESTRICTIONS ON IT THAT ARE SELF-IMPOSED, WE CAN SELF-IMPOSE THEM. WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO STUFF ON ZONING. YEAH, I KNOW IT'S LIKE WE DO IT ONCE IN A WHILE EVERY NOW AND THEN, BUT I KNOW THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE THEATER CAN BE BUILT. THAT WAS ONE REASON. BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER REASON. I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST THE. I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST THE STUFF. OKAY, I SO, SO IF WE GO DOWN THAT ROAD LOOKING AT OTHER USES ON THAT, WE'LL DEFINITELY NEED TO LOOK AT MORE, MORE IN-DEPTH STUDIES AND TO SEE. BUT DAVE CLEMENTS IS VERY GOOD SOURCE OF INFORMATION, THINKS THAT THERE IS NO DEED RESTRICTION AS FAR AS CHANGING THAT LAND USE. THERE ARE OTHER THINGS. THERE'S CONTRACTS WITH THE SELL SELL WRITER OF THAT AREA THAT WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH. AND BUT THE INITIAL BLUSH IS IT COULD IT IS A POSSIBILITY. IT'S NOT LIKE THE NORTH END OF BEDFORD PARK DOES HAVE A U DOT DEED RESTRICTION. THAT'S WHAT WE RAN INTO YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO DO THE CULTURAL ARTS UP THERE. NOT. SO I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO HAVE A MIDDLE GROUND SOMEWHERE. I WAS DEFINITELY A TAKEAWAY FROM OUR LAST CONVERSATION IS PART OF WEST 
          [00:15:05]
JORDAN'S HERITAGE IS THE RODEO. YOU NEED TO. WE NEED TO ACCOMMODATE FOR AND KEEP RODEO, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE THERE. AND FRANKLY, IF WE TORE THAT ONE DOWN AND PUT IT UP SOMEWHERE ELSE, IT'S NOT A HEAVY LIFT. IT'S ALUMINUM. IT'S ALUMINUM. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S NOT A LOT THERE TO PICK UP AND MOVE. RIGHT. IT'S SOME BLEACHERS AND A AND A AND A SHIPPING CONTAINER ON STILTS. OKAY. MAYBE TWO SHIPPING CONTAINERS. CONTAINER. BUT SO IF I WAS THINKING OF WHAT TO PUT THERE, IF I WAS IMAGINING LIKE SIMCITY PLAYING AND, AND THINKING ABOUT THE CITY CENTER PLANS THAT WE HAVE KICKED AROUND FOR OVER HERE. AND IF THIS PROPERTY IS AVAILABLE, MY, MY FIRST THING IS THIS IS WHERE SOME SORT OF OFFICE TOWER GOES FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO MOVE INTO. BECAUSE WE CAN BUILD IT WITHOUT DISRUPTING ANYTHING OVER THERE. IF YOU BUILD SOME SORT OF OFFICE TOWER FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO MOVE INTO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ONLY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. THAT'S WHEN YOU START. AND THEN THAT FREES UP. CATALYST NUMBER TWO. SO SO COULD COULD THAT BUILDING BECAUSE REALLY THEY DON'T HAVE A TON OF OFFICE OFFICES ACROSS THE STREET. THEY HAVE MORE WAREHOUSE AND SECURITY AND YEAH. 
          AND REFRIGERATION FREEZER UNITS. I ALSO THINK WE'VE HEARD FROM SOME PEOPLE ON THE BOARD THAT THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE IDEAL LOCATION FOR THE DISTRICT ANYMORE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT CENTERED FOR THE DISTRICT. SO THEY'VE EVEN LOOKED AT THEY WANT TO GO SOUTH AND WEST. 
          EXACTLY. YEAH. THEY'RE WILLING TO DO. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT MOVING THE DISTRICT ACROSS THE STREET OR BUILDING SOMETHING FOR THE DISTRICT. THE DISTRICT MOVES FROM HERE. THEY'RE NOT MOVING ACROSS THE STREET. AT LEAST THEY DON'T HAVE TO. IT WOULD MAKE THEM. I THINK THEY WANT TO MOVE OUT IF THEY CAN, RATHER THAN REBUILDING SOMETHING NEW HERE. COUNCIL MEMBER WHITLOCK, IN A PREVIOUS MEETING, SAID SOMETHING THAT STRUCK ME, AND THAT IS. DO WE WANT TO KEEP DISTRICT FACILITIES IN OUR CITY IN CASE OTHER CITIES WANT TO SPLIT OFF FROM JORDAN SCHOOL DISTRICT? I THINK SHE HAS A UNIQUE POINT OF VIEW, HAVING BEEN A. ON THE SCHOOL BOARD PRIOR TO THE CITY COUNCIL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT AT ALL? WELL, IT'S JUST A VERY REAL REALITY THAT THERE IS A COMMUNITY TO THE SOUTH OF US THAT HAS A FAIRLY BIG PART OF THEIR POPULATION THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPLIT FROM THE DISTRICT, AND IF THEY DO, THEN YOU END UP WITH THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN JORDAN SPLIT, RIGHT? THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, THE ONLY THING WE HAD ON THE WEST SIDE WAS THE BEST. 
          THEY HAD ALL THE OTHER BUILDINGS ON THE EAST SIDE. SO ALL THOSE OTHER BUILDINGS. 
          THAT'S WHY JORDAN DISTRICT IS IN CENTRAL BECAUSE IT WAS AVAILABLE. AND SO I DO THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT, YOU KNOW, DO WE REALLY WANT THEM TO LEAVE? BECAUSE MY INITIAL THOUGHT WAS, YEAH, LET'S GET THEM OUT OF HERE. WELL, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, IN FAIRNESS, THERE'S NO PROPERTY TAX THERE. SO YOU MAY WANT TO SAY GOODBYE, BUT, BUT IT'S JUST IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS. KEEP THAT THERE. IF THEY'RE ALL GONE, IF THEY'RE WHOLE, IF EVERYTHING LEFT AND THEY WOULD ESPECIALLY THE BUS DEPOT. I HAVEN'T HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT THESE GUYS AS MUCH, BUT THE BEST PEOPLE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE SOMETHING FARTHER SOUTH BECAUSE IT'S A LONG COMMUTE, THOSE BUSSES EVERY DAY. BUT DID THEY SPLIT DISTRICT SPLIT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT US ANYMORE. THEY THOUGHT WE WERE COSTING TOO MUCH MONEY TO BUILD ALL THESE NEW SCHOOLS. 
          THE NEW KID, ALL THE KIDS WERE OUT HERE, AND ALL THE TAX INCOME AT THE TIME WAS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE VALLEY. YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME, I ACTUALLY AND I ACTUALLY VOTED ON THAT. 
          SO IT'S GOOD TO BE TOLD WHAT MY THOUGHT PROCESS WAS. IT'S ALWAYS NICE. IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING. SO THE CORE QUESTION HERE IS IF WE'RE OKAY WITH THE PRESIDENT. 
          ONE. YES, THE CORE QUESTION IS DO YOU WANT TO DO YOU WANT TO DO A LAND USE STUDY OF WHAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE HERE BEFORE DOING A VENUE STUDY? SO I'LL SAY ONE THING THAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS, AND COUNCILMEMBER JACOB BROUGHT UP SOMETHING THAT I HAD SPOKEN TO AS WELL, IS WE CAN START THE DISTRICT MOVE AND, AND REALLY ALSO TURNED THIS RODEO GROUND AREA INTO SORT OF 
          [00:20:08]
PHASE ONE OF OUR DOWNTOWN WHERE WE COULD PUT IN A LITTLE OFFICE, WE COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN SOME, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF THE HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. THEN WE'VE GOT AREAS FOR THINGS THAT COULD COMPLETE THIS OUT AS AN INCREDIBLE SORT OF ART DISTRICT ESQUE KIND OF AREA WHERE WE'VE GOT THE THEATER, WE'VE GOT THE LIBRARY, WE'VE GOT A REC CENTER, WE'VE GOT A PARK, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER PARK. WE'VE, WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, A BUNCH OF LITTLE AREAS AROUND HERE, NOT ONLY JUST OUR CITY CAMPUS, BUT THEN THIS IS AN. I'LL BRING IT UP. I HADN'T BROUGHT IT UP IN A, IN A WHILE OTHER THAN OTHER TALKS, BUT A CONTAINER PARK KIND OF THING THAT WOULD DO VERY WELL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN THE APARTMENTS THERE. PLUS INTO THE JUST THE WHOLE OVERALL AREA. 
          THEN AT ONE POINT, COUNCILMEMBER SCHULTZ AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT, DO WE TRY TO MOVE THE. TRACK STATION BACK OVER HERE TO 2200, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'D REALLY NEED TO. WITH A PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE OVER REDWOOD, WE NOT ONLY GIVE ANYONE WHO IS IN THAT AREA A GREAT ACCESS OVER TO THE TRACK STATION, BUT IT ALSO STARTS TO PUT IN PEOPLE'S MIND THAT THIS IS WHERE THE NEXT PHASE OF DOWNTOWN IS GOING TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS BRIDGE. AND THEN THAT BRIDGE NOW CONNECTS THE PHASES OF, OF A DOWNTOWN. AND WE START TO REALLY SEE IT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE SEEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, HANDCUFFED TO THE IDEA THAT WE CAN'T START UNTIL WE DO SOMETHING WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WHERE JUST, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET AWAY FROM THAT AREA IS LAND THAT WE OWN. AND WE COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO START IT AND COME UP WITH A PHASE ONE TO OUR DOWNTOWN DISTRICT THERE, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD THEN HELP ENTICE THE BUSINESSES AND THINGS THAT WE NEED INTO THE PHASE TWO SIDE OF THINGS AND GET US WHERE WE WOULD HAVE THE BIG AMPHITHEATER OVER ON THE OTHER SIDE NOW, AND WE'D HAVE SOME OF THOSE OTHER AND WE COULD PUT A PARK IN THAT AREA AND BUILD THAT OUT INTO SOMETHING, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHERE PHASE ONE WOULD BE THE THING THAT HELPS US ATTRACT THOSE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE IT MORE REASONABLE TO HAVE A PARK. YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THE GREEN SPACE THERE. WE HAVE GREEN SPACE ON THIS SIDE OF REDWOOD. WE HAD THAT THERE, AND THEN GREEN SPACE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF REDWOOD. I THINK THAT GIVES US A BETTER LOOKING SPREAD OF PARKS. SO THAT'S JUST SOME OF MY THOUGHTS ON THIS AND WHY IT STARTED TO EXCITE ME WITH THE IDEA OF POSSIBLY JUST MOVING THE RODEO GROUNDS. IT ALSO GAVE US THE OPTION THAT WE COULD BUILD OUT THE RODEO GROUNDS OR ARENA OR WHATEVER WE WANT AND GET THAT DONE WHILE THIS RODEO GROUND IS STILL THERE, AND NOT MOVE THE RODEO UNTIL THAT IS DONE. SO THERE'S NEVER A HICCUP IN OR A RUSH TO GET THINGS DONE. SO WE DO IT RIGHT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO JUST DO LITTLE BITS OF THINGS ON THIS GROUND, WE COULD DO IT RIGHT FROM THE GROUND UP WHERE WE MOVE IT. AND THEN ONCE IT'S DONE, WE JUST, WE CLOSE DOWN THIS RODEO GROUNDS AND START PHASE ONE OF DOWNTOWN. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS ON THIS. WHERE, WHERE IN THE CITY WOULD YOU ENVISION PUTTING THE RODEO GROUNDS? LIKE, ARE WE GOING TO PUT IT BY MARIE'S HOUSE? WE COULD DO SOMETHING INTERESTING WHERE WE'VE NEVER REALLY THOUGHT. BUT WE HAVE THAT ONE TRACK STATION OUT. BY BINGHAM WOULD BE A PLACE TO BE OUT THERE. THEN WE'VE GOT THIS BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MORE THAN JUST A RODEO. IT'D BE IF IT'S LIKE AN ARENA THING WHERE ONE STOP AWAY FROM THE BASEBALL THING. SO WE'VE ALMOST GOT THIS SORT OF SEMI SPORTS DISTRICT. 
          WE'RE KIND OF CREATING THERE. SO THAT'S ONE PLACE I WAS THINKING MIGHT BE GOOD. WE'D HAVE TO REVISE THAT THAT. PLAN STATION AREA PLAN TO MAKE THAT WORK. WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING TO GO THERE AND WHAT'S GOING TO MAKE IT. WELL, THE PLANNERS ARE JUST GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. THEY'RE GOING TO BE CHUTES INSTEAD OF. YEAH. YEP. 
          YEAH. WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT PROBABLY 2 OR 3 DIFFERENT POSSIBLE SITES FOR THE RODEO VENUE, EACH WITH PROS AND CONS. SO WHAT DO I SEE WITH THIS? IS THERE A CONNECTION ISSUE? SO OBVIOUSLY 2200 IS A TWO LANE ROAD. SEE IT'S WIDENING BY ANY ROAD. ROADS ARE SIX LANE ROAD AND YOU HAVE THE CONNECTION PROBLEM WITH CITY HALL, OUR POLICE STATION, THE WHAT'S CALLED OUR NEXT STATION, THE DISTRICT COURT, THE DISTRICT COURTS AND THEN THESE OFFICES ARE ALL IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE SEEING THIS LITTLE AREA HERE. THIS AREA IS TECHNICALLY BACK INSIDE AND IT'S NOT CONNECTED LIKE YOU WOULD BE IF YOU WERE OUT ON. LOOK AT THAT. RIGHT? YEAH. SO YEAH, THERE IS KIND OF A, THERE'S A WALL THAT KIND OF SEPARATES US FROM REDWOOD WITH THIS AREA IN THE BACK. SO I THINK IT'S GOT TO BE A GOVERNMENT. AND THIS IS OUR CIVIC BLOCK, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK A PRIVATE. CIVIC PROPERTY SAYING CIVIC. IT'S THE PARK. 
          [00:25:03]
IT'S THE IT'S EVERYTHING ON THIS BLOCK IS GOVERNMENT OWNED AND OPERATED AND RUN. SO WHAT ELSE DO I. UNDERSTAND? YOU GOTTA START MOVING AWAY FROM EUCLIDEAN ZONING FOR THIS DOWNTOWN. I AGREE, BUT I THINK THERE'S A BENEFIT TO A GOVERNMENT KIND OF CAMPUS AND PUTTING SOMETHING DIFFERENT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF KIND OF A GOVERNMENT CAMPUS IS KIND OF WEIRD, EUCLIDEAN OR OTHERWISE. IT'S JUST TO ME, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THERE. THAT'S WHY SCHOOL DISTRICT. WELL, I DON'T WANT THAT TAKING UP THE WHOLE SPACE. WELL, SCHOOL DISTRICT PARKING. AND I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED FROM HAVING CARMEL MAYOR COME OUT IS PARKING UNDERNEATH STRUCTURES. I'D LIKE TO SEE US MAYBE START FIGURING OUT IF WE CAN MAKE SOME OF THAT WORK. YEAH. ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT WITH JEFF SPECK WAS THAT THIS LAND IS EXCITING TO HIM. 20 ACRES WITH ALL THESE INSTITUTIONAL ANCHORS AROUND IT, BUT ALSO THE THE PREVALENCE OF SURFACE PARKING. IF YOU START TO THINK OF SURFACE PARKING AS RAW GROUND AND A BLANK CANVAS, THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL. SUDDENLY A LOT OF POTENTIAL FOR FOR NEW THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE. WHERE CURRENTLY WE'VE BEEN USING, YOU KNOW, LOW INVESTMENT PER SQUARE FOOT SURFACE PARKING. SO, SO THE LAND USE STUDY, I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS IF WE WANT TO DO A LAND USE STUDY, I WOULDN'T LIMIT IT TO JUST THIS 20 ACRES. I WOULD SAY GIVE US SOME IDEAS TO THINK MORE HOLISTICALLY ABOUT THE WHOLE CAMPUS OR ABOUT THE WHOLE CAMPUS AND ACROSS THE STREET. JEFF SPECK'S ASSISTANT IS ALL GOO GOO ABOUT OUR CITY HALL PARKING LOT AND WHAT WE COULD DO WITH THAT TO BUILD IT UP THE PARKING LOT. JUST OUR TINY LITTLE CITY HALL PARKING. YEAH, SHE WAS NUTS ABOUT AND AND SAYING HOW THAT COULD BE BUILT UP AND BECOME SOMETHING AMAZING WITH STRUCTURED PARKING BUILT IN, THERE WOULDN'T EVEN BE VISIBLE. FROM THE OTHER SIDE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT MAP OF THE THINGS THAT ARE BUILT, OVER HALF OF THE MAP IS OVER HALF OF THE MAP IS PARKING. IF YOU TAKE OUT THE RODEO GROUNDS ON THE NON BUILT STUFF. SO WHEN YOU WHEN YOU STOP TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE FOR EVERY POSSIBLE CAR THAT MAY COME TO THIS LOCATION AND START ACCOMMODATING FOR PEDESTRIANS, GIVING THEM A NINE BY 16 FOOT, WHATEVER PIECE OF REAL ESTATE THEY START REQUIRING STRUCTURED PARKING, THEN THINGS CAN START TO HAPPEN. THINK OF EVERY COOL DOWNTOWN YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO. THEY'VE ALL GOT STRUCTURED ALL. THESE LITTLE DOWNTOWN DOESN'T HAVE. I LIKE THEIR LITTLE DOWNTOWN. COOL. IS IT THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER? IT WILL. I THINK IT WILL. IT'S GOT A GREAT BIG PARKING GARAGE BEING BUILT JUST NORTH OF THE. OH, YEAH. 
          I'M CONVINCED THAT IT SHOULD BE A LAND USE STUDY INSTEAD OF A SPORTS STUDY. YEAH, SO. BUT WOULD WE BE LOOKING THEN, MR. LEE ON? WE'RE NOW TALKING TWO STUDIES. WE NEED ONE FOR THE RODEO, WHEREVER IT'S GOING TO BE. SPORTS VENUE AND ONE FOR THIS. NOW, I WOULD START WITH I WOULD START WITH A LAND USE STUDY AND, AND THEN HIT PAUSE AND SAY, DO WE LIKE THIS? IS THIS THE DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO? AND THEN IF THE ANSWER IS YES, THEN, THEN WE WORK ON LOCATIONS FOR THE RODEO ARENA, MAXIMIZING USE OF THE RODEO ARENA, THAT KIND OF THING. IT'S GOING TO BE MY NEXT QUESTION IS, IS THERE ONE WE WOULD START AND MAYBE I WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD NOT, I WOULD NOT IF, IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS AS A LAND USE STUDY, I WOULD DO THAT AND THEN HIT PAUSE AND THEN MAKE SOME DECISIONS. OKAY, BUT WOULD WE BE WOULD WE BE BUILDING AN ACTUAL DOWNTOWN GATHER LIKE KIND OF LIKE SOUTH JORDAN'S OR ANY OTHER DOWNTOWN THAT YOU'VE BEEN TO WHERE THEY DO HAVE A GATHERING AREA FOR PEOPLE? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT IN THIS AREA FOR? THAT'S WHAT I WOULD WANT. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT THE ARTS CENTER THERE. I THINK IT WOULD BE A NATURAL FIT. WELL, I WOULD WANT IF WE'RE GOING TO IF WE'RE GOING TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING OTHER THAN A PARK, I WOULD WANT IT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF A DOWNTOWN FEEL WHERE YOU COULD DO A SMALL GATHERING, GATHERING SPACES. PLAZA. YEAH, OUR CENTRAL SQUARE, WHATEVER. YEAH, YEAH, SOMETHING. YEAH. SO THAT REALLY DOES FEEL LIKE A DOWNTOWN, NOT JUST. ANOTHER AREA. YEAH. I LIKE THE IDEA OF I REMEMBER WE SAW ONE DESIGN 
          [00:30:04]
FOR A DOWNTOWN, LIKE AFTER I GOT ELECTED WHERE THEY HAD THE AMPHITHEATER, BUT IT WAS FACING NORTH, SOUTH AND EAST WEST. I WAS LIKE, MAN, YOU COULD USE THE WHOLE MOUNTAIN AS YOUR BACKDROP OF THIS AMPHITHEATER, WOULDN'T WE? ARE WE DOING WE COULD HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH THAT WHOLE AREA AT TIMES ISN'T A STAGING AREA FOR THINGS, BUT IT'S ALSO JUST THIS GRASS OPEN AREA THAT'S MEETING WHERE YOU COULD DO SOME THINGS LIKE A FARMER'S MARKET, YOU COULD DO DIFFERENT RALLIES, ALL KINDS OF STUFF COULD ALL HAPPEN IN AN AREA LIKE THAT. WITH OUR MOUNTAINS AS THE BACKDROP OF, I WANT TO SEE US START USING SOME OF THAT AS WELL. IF WE'RE DESIGNING THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, THE OVERALL BEAUTY OF IT ANYWAY. SO OUR MAIN TALK HERE WAS WHAT KIND OF STUDY WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE, MR. LEE, IS THAT WE COULD DO A LAND USE STUDY HERE, HOLD OFF. ONE SUGGESTION HE'S MAKING IS HOLD OFF ON THE ON A RODEO GROUND STUDY, ESPECIALLY FOR THIS AREA, BUT EVEN HOLD OFF ON IF WE MOVE IT AND WE GO WITH THIS, SEE IF WE LIKE THIS IDEA, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT APPEALING TO A MAJORITY OF THIS COUNCIL, THEN WE CAN GO BACK TO THE RODEO GROUNDS AND KEEP IT HERE. AND HOW DO WE PUT IT INTO STILL MAYBE FIT, WHAT WITH WHAT COULD BE A, YOU KNOW, BURGEONING DOWNTOWN LOCATION WITH THAT VERY, I DON'T KNOW, MANY CITIES THAT HAVE PUT A RODEO GROUNDS AS PART OF THEIR OVERALL DOWNTOWN ESTHETIC, BUT THERE'S NO REASON WHY IT CAN'T BE. SO IS THAT SOMETHING WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE WITH THAT? ARE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS THAT NEED TO BE MADE IN THE. IF WE TAKE A VOTE ON THAT, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'D LIKE TO GO WITH OUR STUDY, I THINK IT DOES. I JUST THINK IT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE 30,000 FOOT VIEW OF THE REST OF. 
          ACROSS THE STREET, AS WELL AS AS PART AND PARCEL. SORRY, WHAT WAS THAT? COUNCILMEMBER. I'D LIKE TO. WELL, THEN LET'S HEAR THE MAYOR'S OPINION ON THE COUNCIL. HAVE ANY INFORMATION TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION? SO THAT WAS NONCOMMITTAL IN ANY WAY SHAPE. OTHER THAN INFORMATION. WE WERE GOING TO GET INFORMATION NO MATTER WHAT STUDY WE DID. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS FROM THE COUNCIL? LIKE IT STILL, RIGHT? ANY ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE COUNCIL? DO I HAVE FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO MOVE FORWARD ON A LAND USE STUDY OF POSSIBLE NEW THINGS FOR THE. I HAVE SEVEN. THAT'S SEVEN. SEVEN. OKAY. CORBIN, DO YOU NEED ANY OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT KIND OF STUDY? WELL, I'M GOING TO PIVOT. I'M GOING TO PUT COREY'S TEAM ON HOLD WHERE COREY GO. COREY'S TEAM. COREY'S TEAM WAS ALL SET TO WORK ON THE RFP FOR THE RODEO VENUE. WE'RE GOING TO PUT HIS TEAM ON HOLD ON THAT STUDY AND TEE IT UP WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT TO NOW BE MORE OF A, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, LAND USE STUDY. MR. THERE MIGHT AS WE TRY TO WRITE THE RFP FOR THE SCOPE OF THAT STUDY. WE MIGHT HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS, BUT WE'LL GET GOING ON THAT. OKAY, COOL. YOU GOT WHAT YOU NEEDED. 
          THANK YOU. YES. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NOW THAT WE'VE KIND OF HAD OUT OF THE WAY AND LIKE I 
          [b.
 Discussion of the Upcoming 2026 Resident Survey (via Y2 Analytics)]
SAID, I THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD HAVE WAIT ON THIS NEXT ONE. THIS IS GOING TO BE ITEM TWO B. 
          THIS IS THE 2026 RESIDENT SURVEY. IT WILL BE TOO-B. AND WE KNOW NOT ABOUT IT HERE. 
          WE'VE GOT ALLEN IS HERE FROM THE STAFF AND WE ALSO GOT KAREN GIBB AND ETHAN MELDRUM FROM A Y ANALYTICS. THAT'S WHY NOT. I MISSED THE TWO. SO THE LAST THREE YEARS THE COUNCIL FUNDED A A SURVEY OF THE COMMUNITY. AND THERE'S TWO GROUPINGS OF QUESTIONS. ONE QUESTION IS KIND OF AN ONGOING. WE ASKED THE SAME QUESTION EVERY YEAR TO KIND OF GET A PULSE FROM THE RESIDENTS OF HOW THINGS ARE PROGRESSING OR NOT PROGRESSING, SO THEY CAN BE ADDRESSED BY THE ADMINISTRATION. THE SECOND SET IS KIND OF THE TOPIC OF THE DAY. ARE CURRENT TRENDS. THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THE RODEO GROUNDS, THE MAJORITY OF YOU BELIEVED AND ASKED IF WE COULD INCLUDE SOME SOME QUESTIONING, WHICH IS KIND OF WHY WE PUT THIS TOPIC FIRST. SORRY, THE RODEO TOPIC FIRST ON THIS AGENDA IS NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT KIND OF AN IDEA OF THAT. SO THEY'RE THEY'RE GEARING UP. IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT A SEVEN WEEK, SIX, SEVEN WEEK PROCESS TO GET THE SURVEY OUT. THEY DO TRY AND FOLLOW AND THEY'VE DONE VERY WELL AT IT. I USUALLY 1000 PLUS RESPONDENTS EQUAL AMOUNTS IN THE FOUR DISTRICTS IN THE CITY. THEY TRY AND MATCH THE RESPONDENTS, YOU KNOW, FROM HOMEOWNERS, RENTERS, ALL THE DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHICS, SO THAT 
          [00:35:04]
YOU'VE GOT A REALLY GOOD STUDY. THOSE RESULTS, AS YOU READ IN YOUR PACKET OF LAST YEAR'S SURVEY RESULTS, A LOT OF THOSE ARE USED IN THE BUDGET PROCESS. SO AS YOU LOOK AT EACH DEPARTMENT YOU CAN SEE HOW THEY'VE PROGRESSED. SO THERE IS A TIE IN DIRECTLY TO THE BUDGET. 
          THAT'S FEEDBACK THAT'S VALUABLE FOR YOU AS COUNCIL MEMBERS FUNDING THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS WITHIN THE CITY. SO KYRENE HAS BEEN PRETTY STANDARD WITH US OVER THE YEARS. AND ETHAN IS COMING ON BOARD FOR THE PROJECT THIS YEAR. WE SUPPLY HIM, YOU KNOW, WAYS TO CONTACT OUR RESIDENTS THROUGH UTILITY BILLING, AND THEY HAVE OTHER SOURCES THAT WE DON'T HAVE. SO WITH THAT, REALLY WHAT THE OUTCOME IS FOR TONIGHT IS IN YOUR PACKET ON THE STANDARD QUESTIONS. THERE'S SOME OF THEM THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. THOSE ARE KIND OF THE THE TOPICS WE ARE SORRY, THE CURRENT TRENDS, WE CAN STILL INCLUDE THOSE. IF THOSE TRENDS ARE STILL IMPORTANT, WE CAN ALSO INCLUDE QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE RODEO GROUNDS. SO KYRENE. 
          AND EVERYBODY CAN KIND OF ANSWER THAT. I DON'T HAVE ANY SLIDES FOR IT. IT'S JUST KIND OF A DIALOG. ALL I ASK IS AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, WE'LL ALLOW THEM TO CREATE THE QUESTIONS. 
          JUST KIND OF WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO TONIGHT. 
          YEAH. AND I BASED ON THE DIRECTION THAT THE PRIOR CONVERSATION WENT, I MIGHT SUGGEST, RATHER THAN FOCUSING ON THE RODEO AT THIS POINT, IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT LAND USE AND PLACEMAKING, AND THAT'S WHERE THE PRIORITIES ARE FOR THE COUNCIL AT THIS TIME, THEN I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT WE WOULD WANT TO ASK RESIDENTS ABOUT. WHAT WOULD THEY LIKE TO SEE IN A CITY CENTER, IN A GATHERING PLACE, WHAT TYPES OF EVENTS OR THINGS DO THEY ENVISION CREATING THAT CULTURE, THAT SENSE OF DOWNTOWN THAT ISN'T JUST, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT, BUT SOMETHING THAT ADDS VALUE TO THE COMMUNITY? THAT'S WHERE MY MIND GOES IMMEDIATELY BASED ON THE PRIOR DISCUSSION, AGAIN, BUT VERY OPEN TO COUNCIL'S IDEAS OR QUESTIONS. WHATEVER IT IS YOU WOULD LIKE TO LEARN FROM RESIDENTS THIS YEAR. WE DID HAVE LAST YEAR'S QUESTIONS THAT WERE SORT OF ROTATED IN. WE'RE FOCUSED ON BEAUTIFICATION OF THE CITY AND CODE ENFORCEMENT. AGAIN, WE COULD REVISIT THOSE QUESTIONS IF THAT'S HELPFUL. OR WE CAN PIVOT HERE. SO OPEN THE FLOOR. I ASK A COUPLE OF MORE GENERAL QUESTIONS. YES, ONE IS ON THE SECOND THING ON THIS. THAT WAS IN OUR PACKET. IT SAYS, DO YOU LIVE IN WEST JORDAN? AND IF THE ANSWER IS YES OR NO, BUT IT SAYS TERMINATE. SO IF THEY ANSWER NO WE'RE SCREENING THEM. OKAY. WE JUST WANT TO TALK TO RESIDENTS. THAT'S A PROGRAMING NOTE. AND THEN ON ANOTHER ONE, IT'S IT. WE, WE USE A FIVE YEAR TIME FRAME. AND I JUST WANTED TO KNOW KIND OF COMPARING WHY FIVE YEARS IS FIVE YEARS OPTIMAL. SO TYPICALLY FIVE YEARS IS HELPFUL BECAUSE IT IS ENOUGH RESIDENT TENURE THAT THEY HAVE A BASIS FOR COMPARISON. IT'S WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A CITY THAT IS SORT OF GROWING AND CHANGING FAIRLY RAPIDLY. WE DON'T WANT TO GO TOO MUCH LONGER THAN THAT. SO THAT FIVE YEAR WINDOW IS SORT OF A GOOD, HAPPY MEDIUM, WHERE IT'S RECENT ENOUGH IN RESIDENTS MEMORY THAT THEY CAN MAKE A COMPARISON. BUT YOU KNOW ENOUGH DISTANCE THAT THE THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED. THEIR SENSE OF WHAT MAKES THE COMMUNITY THE WAY IT IS MAY HAVE CHANGED. IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A LOT OF THE RESPONSES WERE, I HAVEN'T LIVED HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW. AND THAT'S THAT'S WHY I WONDERED, IS FIVE YEARS THE RIGHT AMOUNT? THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK IT IS VALUABLE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY OF OUR RESIDENTS THAT ARE RESPONDING TO THIS SURVEY ARE NEW TO THE CITY. AND AND IS THAT SHIFTING OVER TIME? ARE WE SEEING MORE STABILITY IN THOSE RESPONSES, OR ARE WE SEEING STILL A LARGE SHARE OF OF OUR RESIDENTS WHO SAY, HEY, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT COMPARISON? SO THAT'S, THAT'S VALUABLE FOR US AS WELL, ANALYTICALLY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS METHODOLOGY WISE OR ABOUT THE SURVEY INSTRUMENT AS IT STANDS? LET'S JUST SAY THAT I REALLY LIKED THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WE IMAGINE. THAT WAS A SMART WAY TO DO THAT. THAT PERSON WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT. 
          AGAIN, NOT SURE HOW LONG OR HOW MUCH, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'VE BEEN ON THE PROJECT FOR A LONG TIME. 
          IT DEPENDS. SO AS ALLEN WAS SAYING, THERE ARE SORT OF TWO CLASSES OF QUESTIONS IN THE 
          [00:40:04]
SURVEY, AND MOST OF THE SURVEY IS DESIGNED TO BE TRENDED OVER TIME. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING A GOOD LENS ON PATTERNS IN THE DATA, NOT JUST THE CURRENT PULSE. THAT QUESTION IN PARTICULAR WAS ONE OF THE ONES THAT WAS JUST, YEAH, A TIMELY TOPIC LAST YEAR. AND THEN I MENTIONED THE CODE ENFORCEMENT QUESTIONS AS WELL. USUALLY 2 TO 3 QUESTIONS FOR SOME OF THOSE TIMELY TOPICS ARE WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO ROTATE IN AND OUT. IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A HIGHER PRIORITY, THAT NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME AND INVOLVEMENT IN THE SURVEY THAN THAT, WE COULD LOOK AT OTHER QUESTIONS THAT MAYBE WE PUT ON HOLD FOR A YEAR AND REVISIT AFTER WE'VE DONE DUE DILIGENCE ON THE TOPICS THAT THE COUNCIL IS INTERESTED IN EXPLORING. I'D LOVE TO HAVE A QUESTION THAT HAS TO DO WITH CITIZEN OPINION ON WATER USAGE. 
          SOMETHING THAT I CARE A LOT ABOUT. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE I'M NOT. I'M SAYING SOMETHING AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE A SUGGESTION OF HOW TO DO IT, BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING KIND OF INFORMATION. ARE YOU HOPING TO GET MAYBE LIKE WILLINGNESS TO MAKE A CHANGE OR, OR OPINION ABOUT HOW THIS IS ADDRESSING WATER CONSERVATION SOMETHING. 
          THAT'S HELPFUL FOR US TO USE IN CONVERSATIONS. CAN ABSOLUTELY LOOK AT THAT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS TOPICS? I STILL THINK YOUR HUNDRED DOLLAR ONE. MAYBE, MAYBE THAT'S THE PLACE WE HAD THE RODEO TO, BECAUSE I DO THINK IT WOULD STILL BE BENEFICIAL FOR US TO FIND OUT THE PULSE OF WHERE THE CITY IS FOR THE RODEO, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE LIKE MY NEIGHBOR, LIKE JANUARY TELLING ME I NEED TO GET RODEO TICKETS. OKAY. BUT YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S STILL THE MAJORITY, BECAUSE IF WE'RE LOOKING AT MAKING CHANGES, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE MAKE IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION SO THAT YOU WOULD PUT PART OF YOUR $100 TOWARD IMPROVEMENTS ON THE RODEO. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. OF COURSE, SOME OF US UNDERSTAND HOW. YES. YEAH. I THINK IT MIGHT BE GOOD TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE QUESTION THAT IS JUST DIRECTLY TOWARDS RODEO. I DON'T MIND. I LIKE IT BEING A PART OF THE HUNDRED DOLLAR QUESTION AS WELL. I THINK IF WE HAD SOMETHING THAT WAS JUST THERE AND MAYBE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A KIND OF MISCONCEPTION THAT WE SEE THE RODEO AND THE CARNIVAL AS THIS ONE BIG, HUGE EVENT. BUT I, I SEE MANY OF OUR RESIDENTS WHO SEE IT AS TWO SEPARATE THINGS. AND THERE'S THESE PEOPLE. YEAH. WELL, WELL, NOT EVEN NOT EVEN THAT I'M DRIVING THE CART. I WOULD HAVE PEOPLE GOING, SO WHAT'S GOING ON OVER THERE? IT'S IT'S A BIG CARNIVAL. HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THAT? IT'S A BIG CARNIVAL. WHAT'S THAT? AND SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE DO SOMETHING THERE. 
          I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD WANT TO KIND OF PUT SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND. I'M NOT SURE EITHER. WE KIND OF. YEAH. IT'S TRICKY I THINK. I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING. DO YOU. AND I DON'T WANT TO JUST WASTE THE WHOLE QUESTION. DO YOU THINK THAT THE RODEO AND THE CARNIVAL ARE CONNECTED OR. IT'S. THAT SEEMS LIKE SUCH A WEIRD THING, BUT SOMEHOW. MAYBE IT'S A PART OF OUR. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE PART OF OUR JULY 4TH CELEBRATION KIND OF THING? IS IT THE RODEO? IS IT THE CARNIVAL? IS IT? PARADE? IS IT BINGO CALLING? WOULD IT BE THE PARADE? NO, I DON'T KNOW IF WE KNOW. THE TINY STAGE, THE TINY. 
          I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID TO ME, I, WHEN I, WHEN I MOVED IN WITH MY WIFE NEAR HERE, I'M NOT A RODEO PERSON, SO I JUST LIKE TO WALK OVER TO THE CARNIVAL AND WE'D GO AND DO THAT AND THEN LEAVE. AND SO THE RODEO WAS NOT EVEN REMOTELY A PART OF ANYTHING I CARED ABOUT. 
          THERE WERE A FEW YEARS WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CARNIVAL AND THEY BROUGHT IT BACK. YEAH. 
          INTERESTING. SO THAT WAS FOR THE PURPOSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS. YEAH, SOME PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FUN, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THE RODEO. YEAH. SO THAT'S MAYBE WE START SEEING WHAT PEOPLE SEE AS THE, YOU KNOW, THE BIG DRAW THERE. WELL, WE ALSO HAD A CONVERSATION NOT THAT LONG AGO ABOUT SEPARATING. YEAH. RIGHT. WELL, THAT'S ABOUT HAVING OUR CITY CELEBRATION ONE TIME IN THERE. THAT MIGHT GIVE US THAT IF OUR CITY IS TELLING US ONE THING OVER THE OTHER, WE CAN. YEAH. BUT WE NEED THAT DECISION ACTUALLY ALREADY. I TOOK YOU MAKING IT. WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS THAT. IT WAS PRETTY SURE IT WAS MADE. YEAH, YEAH. SO YOUR 
          [00:45:03]
QUESTIONS ON THESE TWO YELLOW. THE FIRST ONE I WANT TO KEEP, THE SECOND ONE IS ON CODE ENFORCEMENT. AND I FEEL LIKE WE'VE EXPENDED A LOT OF BUDGET TOWARDS CODE ENFORCEMENT. AND THEN MAYBE WE NEED TO PAUSE AND SEE IF WHAT WE'VE EXPENDED IS MAKING SENSE. AND THEN AND THEN ASKED CODE ENFORCEMENT MAYBE A YEAR OR TWO. I WOULD AGREE BECAUSE I THINK LAST YEAR'S SURVEY HAD A LOT OF CODE ENFORCEMENT. AND THE OTHER ONE, THE FIRST ONE WAS THE $100. OH, THAT'S YEAH, THOSE ARE TWO HIGHLIGHTED. I THOUGHT THAT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR TOPICS OR TRENDS THAT ARE ON YOUR MIND? I THINK WE CAN DO SOMETHING WITH WATER, RIGHT? AND THEN MAYBE COME UP WITH A COUPLE QUESTIONS OR THREE QUESTIONS THAT ARE RELATED OVER THE WEEKEND. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT BASED ON THOSE DISCUSSIONS. YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF DIRECTION HERE. SO THAT GIVES US WHAT WE NEED. WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU ALL WITH A DRAFT QUESTIONNAIRE IN PRETTY SHORT ORDER. I THINK IT'S REALLY NICE THAT YOU'VE WORKED ON THE SURVEY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. THANKS FOR DOING THIS. MY PLEASURE. THAT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE. I LIKE TO THINK SO. FROM THE STAFF THAT'S IN THE ROOM. DO ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY THINGS THAT YOU THINK YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE CITY IS THINKING? SORRY, I WAS I WAS RAISING MY HAND EARLIER, BUT IT WAS TO SAY WHAT THE MAYOR AND OTHERS SAID IS WE TOOK IT AS DIRECTION AT THE RETREAT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH EIGHT DAYS AND SPLIT OFF THE CARNIVAL IN THE FUTURE. SO THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT THAT, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION IN OUR MIND. 
          WE GOT WE THOUGHT WE GOT DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL TO DO IT. SO WE'RE DOING OKAY. BUT STILL, WE'VE GOT DAYS. WE'VE GOT MEMBERS OF, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PARTS OF OUR CITY RIGHT NOW. ARE THERE ARE THERE ANY THINGS THAT ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE BROUGHT UP AND MAYBE THE JOB THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT MIGHT BE DOING OR ANYTHING? IF YOU THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE BROUGHT UP IN A SURVEY, A CHANCE FOR YOU TO SPEAK UP. PAVEMENT MAINTENANCE, WHAT KIND OF ANSWER WOULD YOU BE? ASPHALT. YEAH. DO YOU LIKE POTHOLES? WHAT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WOULD YOU BE LOOKING TO GET OUT OF? JUST. 
          ABOUT. THE LAST QUESTION WE DO HAVE, WE DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE. YEAH. LEVEL OF SERVICE RATING FOR SURFACE MAINTENANCE ON CITY STREETS AND ROADS. AND WE CLARIFIED LAST YEAR TO REVISE THE QUESTION A LITTLE BIT OR REVISE THE QUESTION TO CLARIFY, EXCLUDING HIGHWAYS AND INTERSTATES MAINTAINED BY UDOT. SO WE WANT TO FOCUS ON CITY. YEAH. CITY OWNED AND MAINTAINED ROADS. SO THAT'S IN THERE ALREADY. ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS LIKE THAT ONE, WE, WE JUST ASK, YOU KNOW, ON A, ON A BIGGER SCALE, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT? HOW MUCH DO YOU, HOW ARE WE DOING? YEAH, THE QUESTIONS WE DON'T ASK IS WILLINGNESS TO PAY. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO YOU? AND ARE YOU WILLING TO OPEN YOUR CHECKBOOK TO PAY FOR BETTER ASPHALT MAINTENANCE OR NOT? THAT'S A STEP FURTHER. IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE HUNDRED DOLLAR ONE THAT SAID SOMETHING LIKE, WHAT ARE THINGS YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SEE AN INCREASE IN TAXES TO PAY FOR? AND MAYBE THERE'S SOME OF THAT LIST. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE ASKED SOME OF THAT KIND, THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS IN THE PAST, WE'VE ASKED ABOUT WILLINGNESS TO PAY FOR TRAILS, WILLING, YOU KNOW, SOME DIFFERENT THINGS. THAT'S THE QUESTION IN MY MIND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ASPHALT MAINTENANCE, WE KNOW EVERYONE LOVES SMOOTH ASPHALT. YEAH. THE QUESTION IS, ARE YOU WILLING ARE HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT SMOOTH OUT? MAYBE. MAYBE THE QUESTION IS BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE IS IF YOU WERE TO TAKE $100 OF THE CITY'S BUDGET, WHERE WOULD YOU SPEND IT? WHAT IF IT WAS IF YOU HAD TO PUT $100 OF YOUR OWN MONEY INTO SOMETHING? I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, I DON'T KNOW. YEAH. THE TRICKY THING ABOUT A WILLINGNESS TO PAY QUESTION IS THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC PROJECT OR SOMETHING TO FUND, IT'S NOT CONCRETE TO RESIDENTS. IT'S ALL IN THE ABSTRACT. AND WHEN WE'RE ASKING FOR MORE MONEY IN THE ABSTRACT, THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS, WHY WOULD I GIVE YOU MORE MONEY? YEAH. SO I THINK IF THERE ARE SPECIFIC SERVICE AREAS THAT THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO INCREASE FUNDING FOR IS CONSIDERING A TAX INCREASE. THAT'S WHY I SAID A LIST, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER IF THERE'S ANYTHING. NOT SPECIFICALLY. YEAH. I MEAN, THAT IS SOMETHING I GET ASKED A LOT FROM RESIDENTS, BUT DO WE OR HOW WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO INVEST IN MORE PICKLEBALL COURTS? MAYBE WE CAN COME UP WITH A LIST OF TOPICS LIKE PAVEMENT MAINTENANCE, PICKLEBALL COURTS, AND COME UP WITH THE LIST TO ANSWER THE CONCRETE POTENTIAL AND THEN RATE IT ON. ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY MORE FOR. YEAH, WE COULD, 
          [00:50:04]
WE COULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE OTHER PIECE THAT I WILL SAY IS THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE AN AMOUNT MORE, THE INFORMATION IS A LITTLE LESS RELIABLE, A LITTLE LESS USEFUL, SAY IS WHAT AREAS WOULD YOU MOST LIKE TO SEE THE CITY INVEST IN? SURE. AND WE CAN ASK THAT QUESTION IF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS A SENSE OF PRIORITIES, THAT'S LESS OF A SENSE OF ARE THEY WILLING TO FUND IT? AND I THINK THE FUNDING QUESTION IS, IS THE TRICKY ONE THAT WE'RE DANCING AROUND. I GET THAT, BUT INVESTING THAT YOU ARE ALSO TELLING US WHAT YOU WOULD, BUT THEY'RE NOT GIVING YOU AN AMOUNT. AND SO IF WE DON'T HAVE THAT, IT GIVES US AN IDEA. SURE. 
          WE CAN, WE CAN DEFINITELY GET A SENSE OF, I CAN'T SAY, WOULD YOU RATHER SEE 30,000 SPENT ON THIS OR 80,000 SPENT ON THIS? AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR WHAT IT WOULD COST THE CITY AS A WHOLE. WHAT MATTERS TO RESIDENTS IS WHAT DOES IT COST ME TO INVEST IN THIS? SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PAY AN EXTRA X NUMBER OF DOLLARS FOR INVESTMENT IN THESE AREAS? THAT'S GOING TO GIVE US MUCH MORE RELIABLE INFORMATION. 
          THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT RESIDENTS WOULD ACTUALLY BE VOTING ON THEN. WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE CITY INVESTING X NUMBER OF DOLLARS TO IMPROVE THIS? THE INDIVIDUAL IMPACT BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT FOR HOW RELIABLE THIS DATA IS. SURVEYS DO THEY WORK WELL? IF YOU WERE TO GIVE A HYPOTHETICAL, SAY, IF THE CITY WERE TO HYPOTHETICALLY, DOES THE SURVEY WORK? WELL, YEAH. BUT I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING, DO YOU GET GOOD ANSWERS FROM. IF WE USE A HYPOTHETICAL, IF THE IF THE IF THE CITY WERE GOING TO RAISE PROPERTY TAX OF $5 A HOME, HYPOTHETICALLY, WHERE WOULD YOU RATHER SEE THAT $5 GO? DOES THAT KIND OF THING? YES, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT, IS HAVING AN AMOUNT. AND THE PRIORITY AREAS IS GOING TO GIVE US THAT ONE TWO PUNCH OF A SENSE OF DIRECTION AND JUST OVERALL WILLINGNESS TO PAY OR INVEST TO SEE THOSE PRIORITIES COME TO FRUITION. OKAY, SO THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION. IF THERE IS A DOLLAR AMOUNT, SORT OF AS AN AVERAGE PER HOUSEHOLD HYPOTHETICAL, AND WE HAVE A LIST OF AREAS THAT THE CITY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INVESTING IN, THE TRICKIEST PART IS JUST MAKING SURE THAT THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT IS REALISTIC AND WOULD MAKE AN IMPACT IN THOSE AREAS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO TEST WITH DOING THAT. IS THAT SOMEBODY WITH A MORE VALUABLE PIECE OF PROPERTY PAY A LOT MORE THAN $5, AND SOMEBODY WHO'S MAYBE THEY'RE A RENTER AND THEY WOULDN'T EVEN SEE THE IMPACT ON THEIR RENT. YEAH. SO I'M TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GET SOMETHING IN. YEAH, IT'S, IT'S CERTAINLY A QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, AN AVERAGE IMPACT. WE CAN'T TELL EVERYONE THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD AFFECT YOUR PROPERTY TAXES. THERE'S A WAY TO DO THAT. BUT WHEN WE DO BOND RESEARCH, FOR EXAMPLE, WE WILL GIVE THE IMPACT THE WAY THAT IT'S PRESENTED IN BALLOT LANGUAGE. SO FOR THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD, THIS IS WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND THAT'S THE WAY WE WOULD SUGGEST FRAMING IT IN A SURVEY QUESTION AS WELL. YEAH. LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY HYPOTHETICALLY. SO HARD TO COME UP WITH EXACT THINGS. YEAH. YOU'RE. I'M SURE YOUR SNOW REMOVAL RATINGS WILL BE OFF THE CHARTS THIS YEAR. YEAH, WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE. THERE JUST MEANS YOU GOT TO DO BETTER NEXT YEAR. YEAH, YOU GOT TO PUT SOME BACK. MR. GROVER, WOULD YOU BE NEW IN THIS POSITION? ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS WE COULD ASK IN HERE THAT WOULD HELP YOU IN THIS POSITION? I ALWAYS WONDER IF THE GROWTH QUESTION YOU FEEL THAT YOUR CITY'S GROWING, YOU KNOW, JUST RIGHT. THAT IS ONE QUESTION WE GET ASKED SOMETIMES. I'VE SEEN THAT AND I WASN'T SURE IF THAT WAS WHY WE HAVE THAT. THEY SEEM TO BE SEEM LIKE IT WAS AT LEAST AROUND 50. WAS THE SOMEWHAT OR STRONGLY AGREE. THE ONLY THING ABOUT THAT QUESTION THOUGH, WAS YOUR CITY GROWING TOO FAST? WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US TO DO ABOUT THAT? WOULD YOU LIKE US TO HIT THE BRAKES? I GUESS TO NOT ALLOW BUILDING PERMITS ANYMORE? SOME OF THEM. WOULD. YOU WANT TO TALK? YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT COST OF HOUSING? YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS I DON'T WANT THE ANSWER TO. YEAH. THAT IS. YEAH. I DON'T ADVISE ASKING A QUESTION. YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER TO. GENERALLY, YES. WE NEED SOMETHING FOR TRYING TO THINK OF THOSE QUESTIONS. IT'S BEEN A WHILE. AMENITIES IN THE CITY. THINGS THAT WE YOU KNOW, WE CAN SAY THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE INCREASED OUR PASSPORT OFFICE, WE'VE DONE SOME THINGS. ARE THERE OTHER AMENITIES IN THE CITY, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALISTIC QUESTION OR 
          [00:55:01]
NOT. SERVICES. THAT'S THE WORD. MAYBE CONDIMENTS. MAYBE THAT'S. I DON'T KNOW. WOULD YOU LIKE WITH WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THE THE SURVEY DID ASK ABOUT INTERACTION WITH THE CITY. YEAH. 
          AND HOW SATISFIED THEY WERE. WE DO ALSO HAVE A QUESTION THAT ASKS WHETHER RESIDENTS FEEL THE CITY PROVIDES ALL THE SERVICES THEY THINK IT SHOULD PROVIDE. IF THEY IF THEY SAY THEY DISAGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT, WE COULD ADD A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO ASK WHAT SERVICES THEY FEEL ARE MISSING OR WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE. WHAT ARE WE WHAT ARE WE MISSING? IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY, WHAT ARE WE MISSING? OR WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE EVEN IF YOU'RE HAPPY? YEAH. OR YEAH, YEAH. WHAT I LIKE IS ONE THAT I LIKE IS IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR TAXES ARE TOO HIGH, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US TO CUT? NOBODY EVER HAS A GOOD ANSWER. NO ONE HAS. 
          EVERYBODY HAS SAYS YES. TAX CUT, CITY COUNCIL. THE COST OF THIS SERVICE. COST OF THE SURVEY. 
          THAT'S A GOOD ONE. OKAY. ANY ANY OTHER LAST MINUTE OR LAST MINUTE. ANY OTHER IDEAS YOU CAN INCLUDE? WHAT WE CAN DO IS ONCE WE GET THE QUESTIONS READY, WE CAN JUST EMAIL IT TO EACH OF YOU. BEFORE IT GOES OUT, AND WE'LL WORK ON GETTING IT OUT TO THE RESIDENTS AND GET IT COMPILED FOR EVERYONE ON THE COUNCIL. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU GOT YOUR SAY ON THIS? COOL. THEN WE'LL HAVE THEM COME BACK IN JULY ISH AND JUST PRESENT THE RESULTS TO YOU. OKAY. THE MEETING. WELL, THAT'LL BE FUN. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. WE ALWAYS DO AS WELL. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. APPRECIATE IT. ALL RIGHT. 
          [c.
 Discussion on Advice and Consent Process]
ALL RIGHT. NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR ITEM TWO C. IT'S A DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED AMENDMENTS ADVICE AND CONSENT. AND WE WILL HAVE ALAN LEADING US. YES THANK YOU CHELSEA. OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS, EVEN WITH THE PRIOR COUNCIL, WHEN THERE'S BEEN ADVICE AND CONSENT MATTERS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE YOU, THERE HASN'T REALLY BEEN CONSISTENCY. YOU GET THINGS LIKE RESUMES AND QUALIFICATIONS FOR PLANNING COMMISSIONERS, BUT YOU MEET DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT HEADS AND OTHERS AND PRETTY MUCH MEMBERS FROM THE PRIOR COUNCIL. AND THIS COUNCIL HAS WANTED TO ASK, CAN WE KIND OF STANDARDIZE THIS? SO I WORKED WITH CORBIN LEE, WHO'S THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, TO COME UP WITH KIND OF A STANDARD WAY, BUT STILL, WE'VE FLEXIBLE AT THE DIRECTION OF THE BODY. AND, AND SO THERE'S A COUPLE SECTIONS IN CODE AND THEN A NEW COUNCIL RULE THAT WE HAVE IN IT. I'D LIKE TO GO THROUGH THAT FAIRLY QUICKLY. SO THIS IS IN 178 OF THE CODE APPOINTMENTS PREVIOUSLY. THIS GOES BACK TO PRIOR TO THE CHANGE IN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. IT WAS ADDED WAY BACK THEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO, SEVEN YEARS AGO, THAT THE HUMAN RESOURCE DIRECTOR AND THE I.T. DIRECTOR GO THROUGH ADVICE AND CONSENT. 
          THAT SEEMS KIND OF ODD A LITTLE BIT, JUST BECAUSE IN THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT, IT'S THE MAYOR'S PEOPLE ARE THE DEPARTMENT HEADS OF HUMAN RESOURCES AND I.T. BUT MOST OF YOU HAVE ASKED, WHY AREN'T WE DOING THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR? AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DEPARTMENT HEAD IN OUR ORG CHART. BUT NOW WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TAKING OUT THE HUMAN RESOURCE DIRECTOR AND THE IT DIRECTOR AND ADDING IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. SO IN THE FUTURE, WHEN THE CITY HIRES AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, THE ADVICE AND CONSENT. THAT SEEMS VERY REASONABLE BECAUSE THIS COUNCIL AND THE PRIOR COUNCIL WERE VERY MUCH VERY ENGAGED WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THAT IS ONE OF YOUR PRIORITIES IN THE BUDGET. 
          SO THAT'S THE ONE CODE EDIT THERE. AND THEN THE OTHER AMENDMENT. AND PATRICK IS HERE TO ANSWER ANY LEGAL QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ON THIS. THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TEMPORARY COMMITTEE ISN'T REALLY SUBJECT TO ADVICE AND CONSENT. IT'S A STATUTORY COMMITTEE. SO WE'RE DELETING THAT. AND THEN THE REFERENCE CHANGE WHEN WE EDITED AMENDED TITLE TWO A YEAR OR SO AGO, THE DEFINITION CHANGED. SO IT CLEANS THE DEFINITION TO 212 INSTEAD OF 213. THAT'S NOT GOING TO. OH MY GOSH, THE NUMBER TWO WORK FOR. AND THEN THIS IS THE POINT WHERE IT GIVES THE COUNCIL THE FLEXIBILITY. YOU GET TO CHOOSE IF YOU WANT TO MEET THEM OR NOT. 
          THAT INCLUDES PLANNING COMMISSIONERS. SO WE'RE JUST ADDING THE CITY COUNCIL MAY OR MAY ELECT TO MEET WITH APPOINTEES. AND THESE WOULD BE THE MAYOR'S APPOINTEES PRIOR TO PROVIDING ADVICE AND CONSENT. SUCH MEETINGS SHALL FOLLOW THE PROCEDURES OUTLINED IN COUNCIL RULES. SO IT GIVES YOU THE FLEXIBILITY IF YOU WANT TO MEET THEM. MAYBE IT'S A PROMOTION 
          [01:00:01]
COMING FROM WITHIN. YOU ALREADY KNOW THE THE NEW DEPARTMENT HEAD THAT'S TRANSITIONING OVER, SO MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT TO MEET WITH THEM OR YOU DO. AND THEN WE ADDED IN COUNCIL RULES, RULE 3.9, WHICH BASICALLY SAYS CERTAIN APPOINTED POSITIONS WITHIN THE CITY MAY BE FILLED WITH THE CONSENT OF THE COUNCIL. AND THAT'S DEPARTMENT HEADS, THE CAO. WE REMOVE HR AND IT AND BRING IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY MEET WITH THE APPOINTEE TOGETHER DURING AN ARRANGED APPOINTMENT OR AS PART OF AN OFFICIAL MEETING IF YOU WANT TO MEET THEM IN SMALL GROUPS, OR IF YOU WANT TO MEET THEM IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE. 
          THOSE ARE OPTIONS TOO. YOU. A VOTE ON CONSENT WILL BE SCHEDULED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER THE ARRANGED MEETING, SO IF YOU CHOOSE TO MEET, YOU GET TO MEET WITH THEM BEFORE THEY CAN GO TO ADVICE AND CONSENT ON A AGENDA AND. THE COUNCIL PACKET CONTAINS INFORMATION IN COUNCIL POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. APPENDIX A, WHICH IS THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THEM TO SERVE AS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, FOR EXAMPLE, OR FOR PLANNING COMMISSIONER OR FOR A DEPARTMENT HEAD, PUBLIC WORKS, PUBLIC SERVICES AND THEN COUNCIL MEMBER STILL RETAIN THIS. THIS IS WHAT ADVICE REALLY IS. MAY GRANT OR WITHHOLD ADVICE AND CONSENT TO APPOINTED POSITIONS. ADVICE AND CONSENT IS SIMPLY. THE MAYOR IS SEEKING YOUR ADVICE ON. IF THIS PERSON QUALIFIED TO SERVE IN THAT POSITION. AND THAT WILL ALSO MEAN WITH LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, PLANNING COMMISSIONER, I KNOW SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN THE COUNCIL WOULD INTERVIEW PLANNING COMMISSIONERS UNDER THE OLD FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THEY WOULD GET A CONSENSUS OF WHO THEY WERE GOING TO APPOINT. THIS KIND OF I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT ALLOWS THAT BECAUSE THE MAYOR GETS TO A POINT. INDIVIDUALS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION. BUT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY, IS THIS PERSON QUALIFIED TO BE A PLANNING COMMISSIONER? IS THIS PERSON QUALIFIED TO BE A PUBLIC WHATEVER DIRECTOR? AND THEN WE RENUMBER THE CURRENT THREE 9 TO 310. SO THOSE ARE THE THREE CHANGES. CORBIN'S HERE TO ELABORATE ON FROM THE ADMINISTRATION SIDE. PATRICK IS HERE FOR ANY LEGAL QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO KIND OF STANDARDIZE ADVICE AND CONSENT. AND WE WILL WORK WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE A LITTLE BIT EARLIER FOR PLANNING COMMISSIONER. SO YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE MAYOR'S APPOINTEES FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH YOUR ADVICE AND CONSENT. OKAY. FIRST, MAYOR, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADD. YEAH, BE I WOULD RECOMMEND REMOVING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I, I THANK YOU, MAYOR. I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST THE SAME THING. 
          THERE MIGHT BE INSTANCES WHERE AFTER YOU MEET THEM, THERE'S A QUESTION RAISED OR YOU YOU ASK THE MAYOR TO HIT PAUSE AND THE MAYOR AGREES, OR THEY'RE THE CANDIDATE MAY SAY, OH, I'VE MET THE COUNCIL. I'M NOT SURE I NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT. OR, YOU KNOW, JUST STRIKING THE PHRASE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I DON'T THINK YOU WANT THAT IN ORDINANCE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE MEANS YOU MEET WITH THEM TODAY. YOU GOTTA MEET THEM TONIGHT. YOU KNOW, I, I AGREE THAT THAT'S A. THAT IS SOMETHING FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN WOULD HAVE BROUGHT UP AS WELL. 
          SO MY CONCERN IS I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HERE STILL THAT THAT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR US TO BE GIVEN THE INFORMATION ON OUR PACKET ON FRIDAY, THEN COME TO OUR MEETING ON TUESDAY AND HAVE OUR VOTE ON TUESDAY NIGHT. THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT'S NOT GOING TO OCCUR STILL. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT MY ISSUE HAS BEEN. IT'S LIKE YOU'VE ALREADY BROUGHT IN THIS PERSON AND THEIR FAMILY, AND THEY'RE WAITING IN THERE FOR US TO GO VOTE. AND YOU BROUGHT THEM HERE TONIGHT, AND I NEED THEM. AND I REALIZED, ACTUALLY, I DO KNOW A REASON WHY YOU SHOULDN'T SERVE IN THIS CAPACITY, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN GO VOTE NO NOW BECAUSE I HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO TALK TO SIX OTHER PEOPLE WITHOUT DOING IT IN A PUBLIC MANNER, WHICH YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DO, I WOULDN'T THINK SO. I DON'T FIND ANY ANYWHERE IN THERE THAT THAT MAKES IT SO WE'RE NOT JUST DOING THE SAME THING WE'VE ALREADY ALWAYS DONE. I AGREE WITH CATHERINE WHITELOCK THAT THIS WE'RE REALLY NOTHING MORE THAN A FIGUREHEAD STAMP ON PEOPLE AT THIS POINT. AND THAT'S THE WAY I THINK ALL OF US HAVE KIND OF FELT ON ON THIS WHEN IT COMES TO THAT AND IT'S SET UP, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE, WHY, WHY BOTHER WITH US IF WHAT WE HAVE TO REALLY THINK IS, DOES IT MATTER? ARE YOU ASKING KAITLYN, CAN I ASK, ARE YOU ASKING? YOU WANT TO MEET THEM ONE MEETING AND NOT HAVE 
          [01:05:04]
THE VOTE FOR THEIR ADVICE AND CONSENT ON THE SAME MEETING? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF THE. AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN WHAT WE HAVE IN THIS RCA THAT THAT DOES THAT TO ME. IT'S. 
          OR DO WE CHANGED A PERSON OR A PHYSICIAN? BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING. YEAH. THERE'S PROBABLY SOME WORDING THAT WE CAN CHANGE. WHEN I TALKED TO PATRICK, THE IDEA WAS THAT YOU WOULD MEET THEM BEFORE I GAVE YOU FOR THE PACKET WAS PUT TOGETHER. YOU WOULD YOU WOULD MEET THESE INDIVIDUALS AHEAD OF TIME, AND THEN THERE WOULD BE A MEETING FOR THE ADVICE AND CONSENT, BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TIME TO EXPRESS ANY CONCERNS. BUT NOTHING IN THE RULES OR THE ORDINANCE SAY THAT THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS THAT THAT SAYS THAT'S HOW IT HAS TO BE. SO ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT COIN, I HAVE CONCERN THAT IF WE. WAITED TO THE SECOND MEETING FROM THE INITIAL INTRODUCTION, THAT THAT'S TWO WEEKS POTENTIALLY, THAT THAT PERSON CAN'T TAKE THEIR POSITION AND THE CITY IS IN NEED POSITION. DOES THAT CREATE PROBLEMS? COULD IT CREATE PROBLEMS OR WOULD IT IS THAT NO BIG DEAL? OR COULD I GET SOME INPUT ON THAT? THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE. IF THERE ARE OTHER EMPLOYER DOESN'T KNOW THEY'LL BE MEETING. I THINK I THINK, CAITLIN, WHAT YOU SAID IS A VALID CONCERN, RIGHT? YOU OUGHT TO MEET THEM AND THEN NOT VOTE ON THEM THE VERY SAME NIGHT OR AN HOUR LATER. I THINK THAT'S FAIR. AND LIKE YOU SAID, WITH THEIR FAMILY, THEIR ARE YOU GOING TO SAY, YEAH, A CANDIDATE WHO IS GOING THROUGH AN ADVICE AND CONSENT PROCESS, THEY PUT THEIR CURRENT JOB A BIT ON RISK, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A PUBLIC PROCESS. SO I DON'T LIKE THAT TAKING A LONG TIME, BUT I THINK A MOMENT TO BREATHE, CATCH YOUR BREATH. MAKE SURE FROM ALL PARTIES THAT YOU HAD A CHANCE TO. CHECK A REFERENCE OR THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY SAID IN THEIR MEETING. I THINK THAT'S FAIR. 
          IF THERE WAS LANGUAGE THAT SAID THE MEETING, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY MEET WITH THEM AND THEN ADVICE AND CONSENT WILL NOT ADVICE AND CONSENT VOTE WILL NOT BE ON THE SAME DAY OF THE MEETING OR THE INITIAL MEETING WITH THE COUNCIL, SO YOU COULD MEET WITH THEM, NOT AT A COUNCIL MEETING, BUT ONE THURSDAY OR FRIDAY, AND THEN THE NEXT TUESDAY AT THE COUNCIL MEETING. HAVE THE VOTE. I COULD GET IN LINE WITH THAT. THAT'S AT LEAST SOMETHING GIVES AN IDEA TO. AND YOU'VE HAD SOME THAT WERE IN CLOSED MEETING. YOU HAD SOME THAT WERE IN A WORK SESSION MEETING. YOU HAD SOME THAT WERE IN THE BREAK BETWEEN WORK SESSION, CITY COUNCIL. THE GOAL IS TO KIND OF STANDARDIZE IT AND TO NOT JEOPARDIZE SOMEONE WHO MIGHT. 
          YEAH, MY MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE IS WHEN COUNCIL MEMBERS MEET THE APPOINTEE THAT IT NOT BE AN OPEN AND PUBLIC MEETING, BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT NOW, THE VOTE HAS TO BE OPEN IN PUBLIC. BUT THE INITIAL INTERVIEW, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE NOT TO DO THAT IN AN OPEN AND PUBLIC MEETING IN CASE IT DOESN'T WORK OUT. THEY HAVEN'T JEOPARDIZED THEIR CURRENT ROLE. WELL, IN ALL HONESTY, IF WE DO IT A WEEK BEFORE AND THEY'VE ALREADY TALKED AND PROBABLY ACCEPTED A POSITION, THEY'VE ALREADY JEOPARDIZED THEIR CURRENT ROLE. 
          THEY WEREN'T PLANNING ON GETTING VOTED IN ON TUESDAY AND GO CALLING THE BOSS ON WEDNESDAY. GOING BY THE WAY, IN THESE ROLES, WE TRY TO BE WE SOMETIMES WE'RE NOT AS CONSISTENT AS WE SHOULD BE, BUT WE TRY TO BE VERY CAREFUL TO SAY, WE'RE OFFERING YOU THIS JOB CONTINGENT UPON A SUCCESSFUL ADVICE AND CONSENT PROCESS, WHICH IS PRETTY EASY TO GUARANTEE IF YOU'RE GOING TO FORCE THEM ON US ON A TUESDAY NIGHT WHILE WE'RE EATING FOOD TO VOTE ON IN AN HOUR, WITH THEIR FAMILY ALL SITTING IN ATTENDANCE. THAT'S WHAT COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK IS SAYING. YEAH, WE NEED TO AVOID THAT. THE INTENT OF THIS WHEN WE DRAFTED IT, THE IDEAS. AND PATRICK, YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M MISSPEAKING, BUT THE IDEA WAS THAT THERE WOULD BE A DAY WHERE YOU WOULD MEET THE INDIVIDUAL, AND THEN THERE'D BE A SEPARATE DAY WHERE YOU DO ADVICE AND CONSENT. AND THAT WAS MAYBE WE CAN TWEAK THE WORDING A LITTLE BIT, BUT THAT'S THAT'S THE, THAT WAS THE INTENT. BUT WHEN I READ IT AND IT HAS TO BE WHAT WE'RE READING, RIGHT? BECAUSE PATRICK COULD BE GONE TOMORROW. YOU CAN ALL BE ON. YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER KNOW. AND SO IT MATTERS WHAT THE WORDS SAY, NOT JUST WHAT THE 
          [01:10:05]
INTENT. PATRICK. YEAH. NOW, WHEN YOU DECIDE TO KEEP. PATRICK. WELL, THE DAY IS STILL HERE. I'M, I'M, I, I THINK THE OTHER THING TOO, JUST JUST TO KEEP IN MIND. SO THIS IS THE ONE THAT'S UP ON THE BOARD RIGHT NOW IS COUNCIL RULES. SO SO THIS IS FOR YOU. AND, AND THIS ONE HERE IS, IS THE ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU WANT FROM THE MAYOR AND AN EXECUTIVE SIDE OF THINGS. AND LIKE ELLEN WAS SAYING, WE WANT TO STANDARDIZE SOME, SOME PROCESS SO THAT THERE'S CLEAR EXPECTATIONS AND AT THE SAME TIME ALLOW FOR SOME FLEXIBILITY. MAYBE THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE YOU WANT TO MEET THEM IN, IN A CERTAIN SETTING DURING THE WEEK AND IN THE EVENING, MAYBE BECAUSE IT INTERFERES WITH THEIR CURRENT EMPLOYMENT, LIKE KEVIN WAS SAYING, JUST JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T JEOPARDIZE THAT. MAYBE THEY'RE ALREADY A CITY EMPLOYEE. AND SO IT'S EASY, EASIER FOR YOU TO MEET THEM AT A DIFFERENT TIME OR A DIFFERENT SETTING, BUT TO ALLOW SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE. THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS WHEN IT COMES TO KIND OF WHAT YOU WANT, I WOULD JUST MAKE SURE TO DISTINGUISH THIS SECTION FROM THE COUNCIL RULES TO SAY, WHEN DO YOU, WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE SETTING IT ON YOUR AGENDA FOR, FOR YOUR VOTE TO TAKE PLACE? HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO SET THOSE MEETINGS UP? AND DO YOU WANT IT CODIFIED OR IN COUNCIL RULES TO, TO SAY, HEY, HERE'S, HERE'S HOW WE WANT TO HANDLE THESE THINGS. 
          AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND AS WELL WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS LIKE, HEY, IT'S JUST BROUGHT TO US AND JUST DUMPED ON US. MY, MY THOUGHT IS THAT IF YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE THOUGH VOTING OR YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, EVEN IF THERE'S KIDS IN THE FRONT ROW, IS TO VOTE NO, RIGHT? OR TO POSTPONE A VOTE OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S WAYS TO, TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS. BUT I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE RULES TO NOT CREATE THOSE UNCOMFORTABLE CIRCUMSTANCES. SO ON THIS ONE HERE, RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE GETTING A PACKET WITH PRIOR EXPERIENCE BACKGROUND. THERE'S NOT REALLY TIMELINES OR ANYTHING IN HERE. 
          BUT THE CITY COUNCIL MAY ELECT TO MEET WITH APPOINTEES. AND AGAIN, THAT'S A MAY BECAUSE IT EMPOWERS YOU. BUT IT ALSO DOESN'T REQUIRE IT. IT JUST ALLOWS IT AT YOUR DISCRETION. 
          AND THEN IT FALLS BACK ON ON COUNCIL RULES, WHICH AGAIN, ARE MALLEABLE. AND YOU GUYS CAN, CAN DECIDE HOW YOU'D LIKE THOSE PROCEDURES TO, TO UNRAVEL. BUT I BALANCING KIND OF THE FLEXIBILITY ASPECT OF IT WITH SOME EXPECTATION OF CONSISTENCY IS REALLY THE GOAL. BUT I THINK I'M HAPPY TO TAKE WHATEVER FEEDBACK AND TRY AND IMPLEMENT IT INTO THE PROCESS. IF YOU'D LIKE TO MEET WITH THEM TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO A SCHEDULED VOTE, WE CAN WE CAN CRAFT THAT AND MAKE THAT HAPPEN. BUT BUT JUST WHATEVER KIND OF TIMELINE YOU THINK WOULD BE THE OPPORTUNITY THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS. I MEAN, I WILL, YOU KNOW, WITH WITH MR. GROVER, I FOUND OUT HE HAD GOT THE JOB FROM A TEXT FROM A FRIEND OF MINE WHO SAID, HEY, I JUST FOUND OUT ONE OF MY GOOD FRIENDS IS GOING TO BE YOUR NEW ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GUY. I WAS LIKE, I WHAT? WELL, HIS POSITION AT THE TIME WAS NOT SUBJECT TO DEVICE. OH, I KNOW, BUT I'M JUST SAYING. BUT BUT YOU KNOW, BUT THEN YOU HELPED PUT TOGETHER THE MEETING WHERE YOU AND I MET WITH HIM. I'M HAPPY WITH THE CHOICE. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S IT'S IT'S INTERESTING HOW YOU KNOW THAT THAT IS NOT SOMETHING I SHOULD BE GETTING IN SOME WAY. BUT I MEAN, AND IT GOES WITH THE PEOPLE WHO, WHO WOULD BE IN THAT. I HATE THAT SAME KIND OF THING TO HAPPEN ON SOMEONE WHO I WAS SUPPOSED TO, TO VOTE ON. 
          THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS SAYING. THIS COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND MAYBE IT'LL BE BETTER. MAYBE THAT PERSON HAS BETTER FRIENDS. THAT DOESN'T JUST SLIP THINGS OUT TO THE ETHER LIKE MINE, LIKE YOUR FRIEND DID. I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE MAYOR WAS STILL A COUNCIL MEMBER. WE WOULD MEET IN A CLOSED MEETING. WE WOULD SPEAK TO PEOPLE AND WE'D BE ABLE TO TALK TO THEM AND INTERVIEW THEM. AND SOMETIMES THEY HAVE THEIR WIVES WITH THEM. WE COULD LEARN ABOUT THEM. AND THEN IT WAS TWO WEEKS AND THEN THEY GOT APPOINTED. SO TO ME, IF YOU WANT ME TO VOTE ON SOMETHING, I WANT THAT TIME TO BE ABLE TO SEE IF I REALLY THINK THEY'RE 
          [01:15:02]
THE RIGHT CANDIDATE. OTHERWISE, I DON'T WANT TO COMING ON THE AGENDA AND TAKING MY TIME BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING ME TO RUBBER STAMP WHEN YOU BRING THEM HERE FOR THE WORK MEETING OR IN BETWEEN FOR THE DINNER AND SAY, HERE'S OUR NEW ATTORNEY, HERE'S OUR NEW THIS, AND IT'S ON MY AGENDA TO VOTE ON. AND YOU'RE JUST SAYING RUBBER STAMP. YOU'RE NOT GIVING ME AN OPPORTUNITY. SO WHAT ABOUT MY CONCERN OF HAVING THAT TWO WEEK SPAN OF TIME? AND WE NEED TO THE NEED TO FILL THAT POSITION IS THAT I THINK THAT'S HOW DEREK WAS HIRED. I THINK THAT'S HOW KEN VALENTINE I KNOW THAT'S HOW KEN WAS HIRED. IT'S LIKE, YEAH, GO AHEAD. YES, I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING. AND AND I WILL SAY ONE THING THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL, I APPRECIATED IT. IT MIGHT HAVE EVEN BEEN A LITTLE OVERBOARD, BUT THAT NIGHT THAT I CAME AND MET WITH THE COUNCIL, I DIDN'T KNOW IF I HAD THE JOB, BUT I GOT KIND OF SNUCK UP THROUGH THE BACK STAIRWELLS AND BROUGHT IN SO THAT NOBODY COULD GET US. THE FIRE SERVICE IS A SMALL WORLD, AND I APPRECIATED THAT THE CITY WAS TRYING TO PROTECT ME, BUT I WAS ABLE TO COME IN AND HAVE AN INTERVIEW. AND THEN FOLLOWING THAT IS WHEN I ACTUALLY GOT THE CONFIRMATION THAT LIKE, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BRING YOU IN AND DO ADVICE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO FOR ME, THAT, THAT WAS HELPFUL. THANK YOU. CURRENTLY THEY GET THE JOB AND THEN THEY COME MEET US. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SAY? NOPE. WE DON'T AGREE WITH CORBIN AND THE MAYOR. WE'RE WE'RE GOING TO VOTE NO TONIGHT. YOU'RE GOING TO GET SEVEN VOTES AND THEN IT'LL JUST GET VETOED AND MOVED ON. WELL, I GOTTA LOOK REALLY BAD FOR OUR CITY, RIGHT? IT SOMEBODY'S BEEN HIRED SITTING THERE. SO I DON'T THINK THAT TWO WEEKS IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STREET WORKER. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGH LEVEL WITH A DIFFERENT WORD. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGH LEVEL. YEAH. THERE'S NEGOTIATION THAT'S BEEN GOING ON. IT'S NOT LIKE THE MAYOR MET WITH HIM YESTERDAY. AND TODAY THEY BROUGHT HIM. THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM FOR A WHILE. I DON'T HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF IT. IS THE CEO. SO IF CORBIN IF CORBIN WOULD NEED TO GO THROUGH ADVICE AND CONSENT ALL THE DEPARTMENTS, THE CEO, THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER. SO THAT IS ONE THAT'S SUBJECT TO ADVICE AND CONSENT. ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, ALL THE DEPARTMENT, DEPARTMENT HEADS, THEIR ADVICE AND CONSENT PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ARE ADVICE AND CONSENT. AND THEN WE ADDED ONE, JUST THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR IS NOT A DEPARTMENT HEAD AS A SPECIAL FUNCTION FOR WHAT. THAT'S A. YEAH, THAT'S A JUST A SLIVER OF THE CITY CODE. 
          BUT WE TREAT THEM FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, LIKE A DEPARTMENT HEAD. YES, HE GETS A CORNER OFFICE. YEAH. WHAT THE CRAP CORNER. THE PLANNING COMMISSION. NOT THE GOOD. 
          STATUTORY OFFICERS. DOES THAT INCLUDE THE TREASURER AND THE CITY RECORDER AS WELL? THEIR STATUTORY APPOINTED OFFICERS? YES. SORRY. THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I'M NOT EVEN TRYING TO SAY THAT WE DISAGREE WITH THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAD. I DON'T AND WE WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE A SAY IN THE PURPOSE OF THAT. BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO ASK US TO TO DO THE POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE, EITHER TELL US IT'S JUST FAKE OR LET US ACTUALLY MEET THE PERSON AND HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT OUR VOTE, BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES WHO OUR NAME IS ON THE VOTE THAT WE SAID THIS PERSON'S GOOD. AND IF IT TURNS OUT THAT THEY'RE NOT, THEN WE WERE THE ONES THAT SAID, THIS PERSON IS GOOD, NO ONE'S GOING TO REMEMBER THAT. THEY WENT THROUGH A HIRING PROCESS, AND THE MAYOR BROUGHT HIM AND THEN BROUGHT HIM TO THE COUNCIL. THE LAST THING THAT HAPPENED WAS THE COUNCIL WAS THE LINE THAT SAID YES OR NO TO THE FINAL THING. AND IF IT'S FAKE, CALL IT FAKE. AND WE MOVE ON AND WE HAVE COOKIES AND WE DO ALL THAT, AND MAYBE WE DON'T. MAYBE WE DON'T VOTE ON ADVICE AND CONSENT. MAYBE IT'S A VOTE OF ACCEPTANCE. WE USED TO ON THE SCHOOL BOARD. AT THE BEGINNING WE DID CONSENT, BUT THEN WE DECIDED, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE NOT GENERATING THAT NOTE. WE'RE JUST ACCEPTING THAT NOTE. AND SO THEN WE JUST VOTED TO ACCEPT. 
          SO YEAH, I THINK I THINK COUNCILMEMBER SHELDON, HIS COMMENT ABOUT THE TWO WEEKS, I DON'T I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S AS BIG AN ISSUE BECAUSE CHIEF MAXFIELD IS RIGHT BEFORE THE CHANGE IN FORM OF GOVERNMENT, PRETTY MUCH ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS CAME UP IN A CLOSED MEETING WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS BEFORE THE JOB WAS OFFERED, AND THEN THE ADVICE AND CONSENT WAS TWO WEEKS LATER. SAME THING OCCURRED WITH PLANNING COMMISSIONERS. THE COUNCIL MET 
          [01:20:01]
IN SMALL GROUPS AND INTERVIEWED CANDIDATES FOR PLANNING COMMISSION THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAD A DIFFERENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT, AND THEN IT SHOWED UP ON A FUTURE COUNCIL MEETING WHERE WHERE THOSE OCCURRED. BUT IT DOES GIVE THE COUNCIL AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE INDIVIDUALS AT THE MAYOR'S APPOINTING FOR THEIR QUALIFICATIONS. THAT'S REALLY WHAT ADVICE AND CONSENT IS. THERE WAS AN INSTANCE YEARS AGO IN ANOTHER CITY WHERE THE NEWLY ELECTED MAYOR OF WEST JORDAN WAS ELECTED MAYOR, HAD APPOINTED A PERSON AS A PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, BUT HAD NO PUBLIC WORKS EXPERIENCE. AND IN THIS MEETING, IT'S THE SAME FORM OF GOVERNMENT. BUT IN THIS MEETING, WHEN THE MAYOR PRESENTED THAT TO THE COUNCIL, THEY BASICALLY SAID, DON'T OFFER THEM. THERE'S HE DOESN'T HE'S NOT QUALIFIED, HE'S NOT GOING TO GET IT. AND SO THEY THE MAYOR REACHED OUT AND GOT ANOTHER CANDIDATE AND THEY THEY FORMALIZED THAT. BUT IT WAS IN THE NEWSPAPER AND I MEAN, IT WAS FAIRLY PUBLIC. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT IT TO BE THAT KIND OF A THING. IT COULD BE A CLOSED MEETING. RIGHT. I'LL LEAVE THAT FOR THE ATTORNEYS TO DECIDE. BUT PROBABLY WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE. BUT I DO THINK THERE IS OKAY TO HAVE SOME TIME BETWEEN WHEN YOU MEET WITH THEM, WHEN THE MAYOR OR CORBIN PRESENT. HEY, THESE ARE THIS IS THE PERSON WE'RE LOOKING AT. YOU HAVE A MEETING WITH THEM AND THEN PUT THEM ON AN AGENDA FOR ADVICE AND CONSENT. I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO WITHDRAW MY CONCERN. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT REALLY IS AN ISSUE, AND I THINK TWO WEEKS WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE COUNCIL TO HAVE THAT TIME. AND I'M ALSO NOT OPPOSED TO OUR COUNCIL SAYING THAT. WE JUST SAY WE'RE ACCEPTING BECAUSE THAT'S THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT CODE TO US THAT WE'RE ACCEPTING THIS DECISION THAT WAS MADE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING WITH THAT PERSON. 
          BUT I WAS GOING TO SAY ALONG THOSE LINES THAT ADVICE AND CONSENT IS STATUTORY BY THE STATE FOR CERTAIN POSITIONS, AND I WOULD PROBABLY JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT AND SAY ANYTHING ELSE. WHEN THE PEOPLE ELECTED TO CHANGE THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. YOU HAVE A STRONG I DON'T HAVE A STRONG MAYOR EXCEPT. TO ME, IT'S. YEAH, TO ME, IF WE IF WE GOT A MAYOR WHO WAS GOING TO. CHALLENGE THAT, I THINK THEY'D HAVE A LEGITIMATE CASE LIKE, YOU CAN'T REQUIRE ME TO GET YOUR ADVICE AND CONSENT ON THINGS THAT YOU KNOW, I AGREE. THAT'S WHY I MAYBE MAYBE NOT. ATTORNEYS ARE FURROWING THEIR BROWSER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WELL, IF I CAN JUST INTERJECT ANOTHER THING. COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB REMINDED ME. SO HE SITS ON THE WATER BOARD, WHICH GOES THROUGH AN ADVICE AND CONSENT WITH THE GOVERNOR. THE WAY THAT THAT CODE WORKS IS THE NAMES HAVE TO BE PROVIDED BY THE MUNICIPALITY IN NOVEMBER FOR AN ADVICE AND CONSENT IN THE UTAH SENATE IN FEBRUARY. SO BEFORE THANKSGIVING, WE SUBMITTED TWO NAMES TO THE GOVERNOR, AND THE GOVERNOR CHOSE ONE AND PRESENTED TO THE SENATE DURING THE SESSION IN FEBRUARY. AND THAT ADVICE AND CONSENT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS LATER. TO BE FAIR, THOUGH, THE TERM DIDN'T EXPIRE UNTIL. THE TERM BEGINS IN FEBRUARY. SO WE CAN USE. I'M SAYING THAT THAT'S AN OPTION WE CAN TALK ABOUT. YEAH. SOME LEGAL. ONES. THERE ARE POSITIONS IN THE CARBON MENTIONED. FOR EXAMPLE, THE RECORD OF THE ENGINEER, THE TREASURER. THOSE ARE STATUTORY STATUTORILY NEED ADVICE AND CONSENT IS NEVER LEAVING. SO IF WE'RE IF WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THE FULL TWO WEEKS AND HAVE A PRE-MEETING, LET'S JUST LEAVE ADVICE AND CONSENT. OKAY. YEAH. AND I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I WAS JUST SAYING IF WE IF WE DON'T WANT TO DO THE TWO WEEKS, THEN THE ONE. BUT IF WE HAVE TO DO IT, I EVEN WOULD BE OKAY IF. AND THIS IS JUST ME TALKING. IF IT WAS A RUSH THING THE WEEK BEFORE WE HAVE AN OPEN TUESDAY, WE COULD SAY THIS PERSON'S GOING TO BE HERE. YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO COME AND AND TALK AND ASK QUESTIONS TO THEM. AT LEAST GIVES US A WEEK. BUT OR SOMETIME DURING THAT WEEK, WE GET A THING SAYING, THESE ARE THE TIMES THIS PERSON CAN MEET. 
          IF YOU WANT TO MEET WITH THEM, SCHEDULE, SCHEDULE YOUR MEETING. I DON'T MIND THAT EVEN WHAT WHAT I DID KIND OF MINE WAS, AND THEY'RE GREAT PEOPLE. EVERYONE THAT'S COME THROUGH IS 
          [01:25:04]
GREAT, BUT IT'S LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME DINNER WITH THE, THE JUDGE AND, AND, HE'S CERTAINLY NOT GOING WELL. I HOPE I GET THIS JOB AT THIS TIME. THAT'S NOT EVEN ANYTHING HE'S EVEN REMOTELY THINKING OF. AND ALL WE CAN ASK HIM IS, SO ARE YOU EXCITED? WE CAN'T BE GOING. HOW DID YOU VOTE ON IT? BECAUSE WE'RE. OR HOW WOULD YOU VOTE ON THIS? BECAUSE WE'RE IN NOW EATING FOOD AROUND PEOPLE. IT'S A VERY COMFORTING, COMFORTING SITUATION. THIS IS NOT A TIME FOR US TO BE ASKING HARD QUESTIONS. COUNCILMEMBER. YES. CAN I COMMENT ON THAT? NO. 
          YES YOU CAN. YES. VERY MUCH. WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO BE HERE TOMORROW. I ADVICE AND CONSENT. 
          I I'M NOT HERE. I'VE I'VE BEEN ON ADVISING CONSENT AND I'M LOOKING AT CHIEF JOSH, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADVICE. THEY COME IN HERE AND THEY 100% KNOW THAT YOU COULD VOTE NO. AND IT IS A STRESSFUL SITUATION. AND, AND, AND EVERYBODY THAT GOES BEFORE TO BE LIKE GIVEN THAT ADVICE AND CONSENT, THEY'VE GOT THEIR FAMILY THERE. YEAH. BUT THEY FULLY UNDERSTAND AND THE KIDS UNDERSTAND AND EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE UNDERSTANDS THAT THEY COULD WALK OUT OF THERE WITH NOTHING IN HAND. IF YOU VOTE NO, IT IT IS THAT THEY DON'T FEEL IT'S A RUBBER STAMP. AND THAT'S THE PEOPLE THEY'RE SAYING. AND I KNOW I'M SPEAKING FOR THESE GUYS RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN ASK THEM, BUT I'VE, I'VE BEEN IN THAT BOAT BEFORE AND I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW IT'S, IT'S A VERY NERVE WRACKING EXPERIENCE TO BE THERE. AND IT FEELS VERY DIFFERENT TO THOSE APPOINTEES THAN, THAN TO YOU, WHICH, WHICH I THINK IS, IS SOMETHING TO UNDERSTAND AS WELL. LIKE THEY KNOW YOU CAN VOTE NO. YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CAN'T. THEY KNOW YOU CAN THOUGH, AND THEY'RE READY FOR IT ANYWAY. I JUST WANTED BECAUSE I AGREE THAT IT'S PUT YOU ON THE SPOT HERE. YOU DID IT TWO WEEKS BEFORE YOU GOT BROUGHT UP IN A CLANDESTINE, YOU KNOW, BACK ALLEYWAY AND BROUGHT IN AND TALKED TO THAT ALREADY. SOUNDS KIND OF SCARY IN A LITTLE WAY. WOULD YOU HAVE FELT YOU'VE PROBABLY BEEN IN SOME OF OUR MEETINGS WHERE WE DID MEET THE PERSON JUST AT THE MEAL, RIGHT BEFORE WE VOTED. WOULD YOU HAVE FELT THAT SAME SORT OF. I WONDER IF IF YOU WERE, YOU KNOW, BREAKING BREAD WITH US A HALF HOUR BEFORE THE VOTE AND AND ALL WE CAN REALLY DO JUST I'M JUST BEING HONEST. YEAH. I MEAN, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS COULD VOTE. YEAH. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, MY HOPE BEING IN THAT POSITION, I MEAN, EVEN THE NIGHT THAT I STOOD BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND AND YOU HAVE TO VOTE, LIKE EVERY VOTE I WATCHED, LIKE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE VOTES WERE GOING TO BE. AND SO, YEAH, I DEFINITELY THINK WHAT PATRICK IS SAYING, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE NERVE WRACKING. AND. I ALSO IT WAS A DIFFERENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND I HADN'T BEEN OFFERED THE JOB RIGHT UNTIL. AND SO I, IN MY MIND, I WAS HOPEFUL AND I FELT LIKE, I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD HAVE OFFERED ME THE JOB IF THINGS HADN'T GONE WELL IN THAT MEETING, BUT I STILL FELT LIKE I'M STANDING UP AND WAVING, YOU KNOW, AND I'M SURE THAT AND I'M JUST GOING TO SAY I'M A PERSON. SO. SO WITH THE MAYOR, THE MAYOR COMES UP WITH PEOPLE. HE DECIDES THIS IS THE BEST PERSON TO WORK WITH. THIS IS JUST ME TALKING. I'M GOING TO TRUST THE MAYOR ON THAT, ESPECIALLY IF THAT'S THE PERSON HE PUT IN FRONT OF ME HOURS BEFORE A MEETING. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE WAVES WITHIN THE CITY. I DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE WE'RE DIVIDED, SO I'M GOING TO GO WITH IT. THAT'S JUST ME AND THE WAY I FEEL. I'M BEING ASKED TO VOTE AGAIN. I TRUST THE MAYOR. HE HE WENT THROUGH, THEY VETTED EVERYTHING. I GUESS PROBABLY GOING TO BE OKAY, BUT I REALLY HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY LOOK THAT PERSON IN THE EYE AND GO, ARE YOU THE ONE WHO I THINK IS THERE? AND THEN MAYBE GO TO THE MAYOR AND SAY, I TALKED TO THIS PERSON AND OR I FOUND OUT, I KNOW THIS ABOUT THIS PERSON. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THAT TIME. 
          SO FOR ME, THIS IS JUST ME AGAIN, ME TALKING AS ONE COUNCIL MEMBER AND ONE VOTE ON THIS. I ALWAYS LOOKED AT THESE THINGS AS, LIKE I SAID, POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE. THEY'RE COMING TO US. GREAT. I'M SURE YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON OR THE MAYOR WOULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT YOU HERE IN FRONT OF US. I HAVE 15 MINUTES TO EAT SOME FOOD BEFORE I'VE GOT TO GO VOTE ON YOU. 
          YOUR FAMILY LOOKS GREAT. THIS IS GOING TO BE A GOOD PHOTO MOMENT. LET'S GO GET THIS DONE. 
          THAT'S THE AMOUNT OF THOUGHT AFTER I'VE READ THROUGH THEIR APPLICATION AND DIDN'T SEE OR 
          [01:30:02]
THEIR RESUME AND SAW ANY RED FLAGS, AND WHO PUTS RED FLAGS ON THEIR RESUME. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S NOT A BIG HELP TO ME. SUBSEQUENCES. WELL, I'M HOPING THAT YOU'RE SMART ENOUGH. 
          YOU DIDN'T PICK SOMEONE WHO WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO PUT RED FLAGS ON THE RESUME. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I'M OKAY. IF THIS IS PERFUNCTORY THAT WE JUST THAT IT'S THERE. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. 
          BUT IF YOU WANT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I TOOK A REAL VOTE ON THIS AND THIS PERSON'S, YOU KNOW, HELPING THIS CITY WAS IN MY HANDS, THEN I WANT TO BE ABLE TO MEET WITH THEM A WEEK BEFORE OR SOMETHING. THAT'S THAT'S ALL. BUT YOU TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU AS A CITY, BECAUSE WE ARE A SEPARATED THING BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE COUNCIL. ARE WE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, A PART OF IT, OR ARE WE JUST HERE TO, AS COUNCILMAN WHITLOCK SAID, RUBBER STAMP IT AND LET'S MOVE ON AND AND HOPE THAT IT'S GOOD. I'M GOOD EITHER WAY, BUT I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHICH YOU SEE IT AS A CITY. HERE'S HOW I SEE IT. I THINK THE TWO WEEKS IS OKAY. LIKE IF YOU WANT TO SAY TWO WEEKS OR A DAY OR IF YOU SAY A MEETING PRIOR TO OR THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY NEED TO MEET WITH THE COUNCIL AT A MEETING, SOME MEETING PRIOR TO THE VOTE. GREAT. I WOULD SAY A MEETING PRIOR RATHER THAN A DATE, BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE A, AN INSTANCE WHERE YOU HAVE BACK TO BACK COUNCIL MEETINGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I THINK THAT'S FINE. IN TERMS OF THE ISSUE ABOUT PERFUNCTORY RUBBER STAMP, DENISE, CHIEF VALENTINE, CHIEF MAXFIELD, MYSELF, SCOTT, BRIAN, WE ALL BECAME DEPARTMENT HEADS IN THE OLD FORM OF GOVERNMENT. COUNCIL HAD A DIFFERENT ROLE IN DIFFERENT AUTHORITY IN THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT. I HAD HERE'S HOW I SAY IT. I HAD A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER IN A DIFFERENT CITY, BUT THE SAME FORM OF GOVERNMENT. 
          CALL ME AND SAY, OUR MAYOR'S PROPOSING SOMEONE FOR THE CEO. THEY'RE NOT MY TOP PICK. I WOULD PICK THIS OTHER PERSON INSTEAD. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO GIVE MY ADVICE AND CONSENT. 
          WHAT CAN I DO? AND MY RESPONSE TO THEM WAS, IF THEY'RE QUALIFIED, YOU'RE GIVING ADVICE AND CONSENT. IT'S NOT YOUR PICK. YOU'RE GIVING ADVICE AND CONSENT. YOU'RE DOUBLE CHECKING THAT THEY ARE QUALIFIED, THAT THE MAYOR'S APPOINTMENT ISN'T WHOLLY UNQUALIFIED TO DO THE JOB, AND IS STRICTLY A POLITICAL WITH NO MERIT APPOINTMENT. BUT IT'S NOT. AS A COUNCIL, YOUR ABILITY TO PICK WHO THE BEST PERSON IS IN THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT. IF IT'S A MAYORAL APPOINTMENT, THE MAYORAL. THE MAYOR GETS TO MAKE THAT DECISION. SO IT'S A VERY SERIOUS ADVICE AND CONSENT, BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME AS WHEN YOU ARE ON THE INTERVIEW PANEL AND YOU GET TO PICK WHETHER THAT'S THE BEST PERSON OR NOT. I APPRECIATE THAT. OH, THAT'S GOOD, THANK YOU. I MEAN, LIKE IF IT'S THE FIRE CHIEF, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THAT SAID NO. AND JUST SAYING JUST SAYING. IT'S LIKE THAT EXAMPLE I GAVE IN ANOTHER CITY, SAME FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHERE THE MAYOR PICKS SOMEBODY WHO'S NOT QUALIFIED. THE RESUME SHOWED THAT INDIVIDUAL WAS NOT QUALIFIED, AND THE COUNCIL LET THE MAYOR KNOW AHEAD OF TIME. 
          IT'S NOT QUALIFIED. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE ADVICE AND CONSENT. COOL. SOMEBODY ELSE, PLEASE TAKE IT SERIOUS. I HAVE ALSO BEEN IN A CITY AND IN A SITUATION WHERE THE. THE COUNCIL GAVE ADVICE AND CONSENT TO SOMEONE THAT WASN'T QUALIFIED, AND IT MADE FOR A BUMPY GO IN THAT POSITION BECAUSE THE COUNCIL WAS TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT WITH THE MAYOR, BUT THEY DIDN'T TAKE THEIR ADVICE AND CONSENT AUTHORITY TO HEART. AND THEY THEY LET THE MAYOR APPOINT SOMEONE WHO WAS UNQUALIFIED. AND I WOULD SAY THE THE OPPORTUNITIES WE'VE HAD SO FAR. LOOKING AT THE RESUME, I FELT VERY QUALIFIED. IT'S JUST. BUT THEN, LIKE I SAID, I ALSO JUST FELT THIS IS REALLY JUST ASKING FOR A KUMBAYA MOMENT. SO I'M COOL WITH THAT. BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF MEETING WITH THE PERSON. AND IF THAT WORKS, WHAT. I WOULDN'T MIND WHAT. I'D PROBABLY BE OKAY WITH IT. IF THEY'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS A RUSHED NEEDS TO BE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, THEN WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CALL AN EMERGENCY MEETING, TAKE CARE OF THIS. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THAT. IF WE GET INTO A SITUATION THAT COUNCILMEMBER SHELDON WAS TALKING ABOUT, THAT WE COULD, LIKE I SAID, HOLD EMERGENCY MEETING. IF WE DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM, JUST ALWAYS MAKE IT TWO WEEKS AND WE'RE READY TO GO. BUT I JUST WANTED SOMETHING. I JUST WANTED SOMETHING. WHERE WOULD THE 
          [01:35:02]
COUNCIL BE OKAY IF I WORK WITH PATRICK AND CORBIN? KIND OF CLEAN IT UP A LITTLE BIT, MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE DEFINED, AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH YOU. YEAH, FOR SURE. OKAY. TO JUST KICK IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. OKAY. 
          CAN I ASK ONE MORE CLARIFYING QUESTION ON THAT? ALLEN, WILL YOU ADVANCE THE SLIDE ONE, TWO, ONE MORE. SO A IN COUNCIL RULES SAYS THE COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY MEET WITH THE APPOINTEE TOGETHER DURING AN ARRANGED APPOINTMENT OR AS PART OF AN OFFICIAL COUNCIL MEETING. WOULD YOU LIKE THIS TWO WEEK. THIS WINDOW IN COUNCIL RULES SPECIFIED. I THINK IN THIS PART LIKE BETTER DEFINED HERE FOR COUNCIL RULES AND PROCEDURES. IS THAT WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO COME IN TO HELP KIND OF DICTATE HOW THE COUNCIL HANDLES THOSE MEETINGS INSTEAD OF THE TWO WEEKS? I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER IF CORBIN SAID IT'S FLEXIBLE. YEAH, YEAH, WE CAN WE CAN WORK ON THAT. OKAY. THAT COVERS EVERYTHING I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT. GOOD. THAT'S PERFECT. THANK YOU. OKAY. CORBIN. PATRICK, YOU GUYS REALLY GOT EVERYTHING ON THAT YOU NEED. THANK YOU. OKAY, COOL. PATRICK, WE'RE HOPING YOU'RE STILL. I HOPE SO, TOO. YEAH, I'LL SEE YOU. I'LL SEE YOU. GOOD. ALL RIGHT. THANKS, EVERYONE, FOR YOUR TIME ON THAT. 
          [d.
 Presentation of Proposed Changes to Wildland Urban Interface Map]
ITEM TWO D IS NOW UP. PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE WILDLAND URBAN INTERFACE MAP. AND SPEAKING OF FIRE DEPARTMENTS, I'M HOPING TO BE HERE TOMORROW AS WELL. YES. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I KNOW THAT THIS WAS AN ENTHRALLING MATTER THE LAST TIME WE WENT THROUGH THIS IN DECEMBER, I BELIEVE IT WAS. BUT AS THE STATE READDRESS THIS ISSUE, HOUSE BILL 48 WAS 2025. SO 2025, IT WAS REVAMPED AND REDONE TO BE HOUSE BILL 41. ESSENTIALLY, THERE WERE SOME SMALLER CHANGES MADE, AND WE CAN TOTALLY TALK ABOUT THAT FOR CHANGES. IT IT TAKES THE FEES. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, THE FEES THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO START JANUARY 1ST, 2026, AND I THINK YOU SAID KICKED IT DOWN. WHATEVER IT PASSES IT OFF, IT PUTS A YEAR BETWEEN THE ANTICIPATED START DATE TO THE ORIGINAL OR NOW THE NEW START DATE, WHICH IS NOW JANUARY 1ST OF 2027. HOW THIS IMPACTS US. IT CAPTURES A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS WHICH. WHILE. WHILE THIS. THE STATE SAID, HEY, YOU GOT TO BUILD A MAP, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MAP NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE. SO CHIEF MAXFIELD, CHIEF PAXTON MYSELF WORKED WITH GIS AND EVAN WAS, I THINK, THE INTERN AT THE TIME. AND MR. HUTCHINGS WAS JUST BACK AND FORTH WITH US. 
          AND THIS IS WHAT WE CAME UP WITH BECAUSE WE. CHIEF MAXFIELD AND I THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT IS OUR LEGIT THREAT ON THAT SIDE OF THE CITY. SO WE BUILT IT BASED ON A 500 FOOT BUFFER BOUNDARY, BECAUSE THE STATE GAVE US ABOUT THIS MUCH INFORMATION TO WORK OFF OF, WE FELT THIS WOULD CAPTURE THE NEEDS AS WE PUT IT INTO A MAP, WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WOULD BE THE NATURAL BREAKS. WELL, IT DIDN'T REALLY NATURALLY BREAK ANYWHERE, SO WE STAYED THE COURSE HERE, KNOWING THAT THE STATE WOULD THEN HELP US DEFINE WHAT THOSE BOUNDARIES COULD LOOK LIKE BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD. THE STATE HAS SINCE PROVIDED. WELL, THEY HAD THIS MAP AT THE TIME, BUT THEY WEREN'T SURE WHETHER ON THE SEVERITY SCALE, WHERE IT WAS GOING TO END UP, WHETHER IT WAS GOING TO BE THIS COLOR, THAT COLOR, OR EVEN ANOTHER COLOR BROWN. THE STATE HAS SINCE DEFINED THAT UP TO BROWN, BUT THEY'VE ACTUALLY PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION TO US. AND IT'S CATEGORY FIVE, WHICH IS THE LESSER SHADE. SO WHAT WE DID IS WE TOOK OUT ALL THE OTHER SHADES OF BROWN, RED, ORANGE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET FROM THE STATE. 
          GIS WAS THE ONES WHO CHASED IT DOWN. AND THEN THEY TOOK THIS MAP LAYER AND PUT IT OVER OUR WEST SIDE BOUNDARY. SO IT'S, IT'S US TALKING TO THEM AS WHO ACTUALLY MADE THIS MAP WORK FOR US. I LEFT THE GREEN SPACES ON JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THIS GREEN SPACE THAT IS STILL PART OF THE THE ZONE THAT THE STATE IS CALLING. IT'S A CATEGORY FIVE. IT'S A SMOOTH STRUCTURE EXPOSURE SCORE. SO THEY'VE GONE THROUGH AND SAID, THIS IS WHERE WE THINK THE PROBLEM AREAS WILL BE AND MOVE AWAY FROM IT. SO FIVE, SIX, SEVEN ON UP. SO THESE ARE THE ONES THAT TOUCH OUR WESTERN BOUNDARY. EASTERN IS NO ISSUE AT ALL. SO OUR WESTERN BOUNDARY WE'VE OVERLAID THESE MAPS AND IT COMES FAIRLY CLOSE TO OUR 500 FOOT BUFFER, EXCEPT FOR 
          [01:40:04]
JUST RIGHT HERE. AND THE NEW LAW SAYS THAT THEY CANNOT BE INCLUDED IN THE ZONE WHICH WAS HERE. SO WE HAVE TO ADOPT OR OUR PETITION WOULD BE TO ADOPT THE MAP THAT NOW THE STATE HAS PROVIDED, WE'VE OVERLAID SO THAT ALL OF THESE AREAS WON'T BE IN THAT ADDITIONAL FEE ZONE. 
          SO IN THOSE FEES THAT WERE PROJECTED TO START IN JANUARY WILL NOW MOVE TO 2027. IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A LOT MORE HOMES THAT WILL BE IN THAT. YES, MA'AM. THAT IS CORRECT. AND, AND BASED ON ON THEIR IDEAS, THE STATE'S IDEA IS YOU COULD TELL THE PIXELATION IF YOU WERE TO ZOOM IN ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBDIVISION RIGHT HERE, THERE'S LIKE TWO RIGHT ACROSS THE ROAD THAT HAVE SOME COLORING, BUT NOT ANYTHING ALONG THE SIDE OF IT. SO THE IDEA THERE IS THAT IS THE STATE'S MAP. THERE'S NOT MUCH WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT. IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE SOMEONE HIRED. YES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO THE RESIDENTS? THEY HAVE TO PAY. YES, MA'AM. AND IT'S A BIG DEAL. YEAH. SO IN 20 AND. 20, 25. SYCAMORES. SO IN 2025, THE THERE WAS A THERE WAS AN IDEA TO HELP OFFSET FIREFIGHTER MITIGATION MONEY BECAUSE IT COSTS THE STATE A LOT OF MONEY. 
          AND THIS IS WHAT WAS PROPOSED AND VOTED ON ESSENTIALLY THE INITIAL. WHAT WILL HAPPEN JUST TO BREAK DOWN WHAT FEES ARE. THE INITIAL FLAT FEE WAS 20 TO $100 PER HOUSE PER YEAR, PER YEAR, BASED ON WHAT I KNOW, CHIEF, UNLESS THAT'S ANYTHING DIFFERENT, I'M NOT CERTAIN ON THE AMOUNT. YEAH, WELL, I HAVE, AND I THINK IT WAS PER YEAR. I COULD BE WRONG. IT'S A PROPERTY TAX BILL OR WHERE DOES THAT WHERE DO THEY PAY THAT THAT I'M NOT 100% SURE OF BECAUSE IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS IT'LL BE A FLAT FEE. AND THEN AFTER THAT, WHICH WILL GIVE THE STATE TIME TO BUILD THE REST OF THE PROGRAM, THEY WILL HAVE ASSESSORS. AND THOSE ASSESSORS COULD BE YOUR LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT. BUT THE REALITY IS IT'LL PROBABLY BE SOMEONE FROM THE STATE. IT'S MY POLITICAL FACE. AND YEAH, SO THE ADJUSTMENTS CAPTURE LESS ON ONE ASPECT OF THE MAP AND MORE ON THE OTHER OF THOSE TWO HOUSES. OKAY. YEAH. SO IT'S ACTUALLY THREE. YEAH, THERE'S ACTUALLY THREE. I HAVE READERS HERE, BUT I WAS TRYING TO LOOK COOL FOR ONCE. DO THEY HAVE WOODEN ROOFS? WHY DID THEY GET CHOSEN JUST FOR THE PIXELS. IT'S THE RESOLUTION THAT'S YOU GOT TO GET A HIGHER RESOLUTION MAP THAN THIS. YEAH WE CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN GET A HIGHER RESOLUTION MAP BECAUSE THAT IS COMPLETELY UNFAIR. SO FRUSTRATION THAT A LOT OF US HAVE EXPRESSED IS JUST LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, THE PIXELATION OF THE MAP. AND YEAH, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW THEY CAME UP WITH THAT, THE STATE HAS APPARENTLY DONE STUDIES BASED ON TOPOGRAPHY, HISTORICAL FIRE DATA, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THIS IS THE MAP THAT THEY CAME UP WITH. CAN THEY DO EXHALATION IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS HAS REALLY BEEN KIND OF A POINT OF CONTENTION FOR US. YEAH. AND NOW AND I'M NOT, I'M PROBABLY SOLICITING THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO MORE WORK, BUT I DO WORK FOR YOU. SO IF IT WAS A BIG TO DO, WE COULD PETITION THE STATE TO TAKE THOSE THREE HOMES OFF. AND YOU USE THAT ROAD AS THE BOUNDARY PLUS ON ROAD. IT'S A PROPERTY LINE. YEAH. THE BACKYARD. BUT WE THERE WOULD BE QUITE THE STATE'S REAL FINICKY ABOUT IT. AND A LOT OF IT IS STILL, AS I MENTIONED IN DECEMBER, A LOT OF UNKNOWNS. SO THIS MAP COULD CHANGE NEXT SESSION. YES MA'AM. PROBABLY WON'T. BUT I THINK AT SOME POINT OUR DUE DILIGENCE WOULD BE TO CAPTURE THIS PIECE, BECAUSE I LOOKED AT MY HOME ON THE MAP, WHICH WAS BUILT LAST YEAR, AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOESN'T EVEN EXIST ON THE MAP. 
          SO MY CONCERN THERE IS WHAT, AS IF WE WERE TO GO UP TOWARDS TERRAIN THAT PROPERTY DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT DOES IN PERSON, WHICH I UNDERSTAND. I KNOW HOW THAT WORKS. IT TAKES SOME TIME, BUT IN ORDER TO BETTER CAPTURE THAT, WE HAVE A LOT OF PARCELS SET UP THERE, BUT THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT OF GROWTH. EVEN AS WE START LOOKING TOWARDS THE BACK OF THAT SUBDIVISION ON THE 
          [01:45:02]
WEST SIDE. YEAH. ARE THERE ARE THERE CRITERIA THE STATE HAS PUT IN PLACE THAT SAYS THIS IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT THE MAP IS? AND THEN HERE'S THE MAP THAT IS BASED OFF OF THIS STANDARD. 
          WELL, THEY TAKE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND AND PUT IT INTO THE PROGRAM. AND THEN THAT'S HOW THEY CAPTURED OFF THE TOPOGRAPHY, HOW FIRE, FIRE SPREAD RATES. YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT VEGETATION IS THERE? IS IT CHEATGRASS? IS IT JUNIPERS? SO ALL OF THAT PLAYS INTO WHERE THEY CAME WITH THE DIFFERENT SCORES FOR THE EACH COLOR. SO AS WE GET UP HERE, IT'S STEEPER TERRAIN. AND THAT'S GOING TO INCREASE FIRE SPREAD. SO AS AS THESE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO YOU'VE GOT SYCAMORES WHICH ARE BUILT OUT, BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT JUST SOUTH OF THAT THE COPPER, WHATEVER IT WAS THAT EVERYBODY HATED, THAT'S NOT BUILT OUT. AND ABOVE THAT YOU'VE GOT OCHER WEST, WHICH IS PARTIALLY BUILT OUT, AND THEN YOU GOT TERRAIN WHICH IS BUILDING OUT PRETTY RAPIDLY AS THOSE BUILD OUT. WILL THAT AFFECT WHERE THOSE LINES ARE? WE'VE ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS, AND I THINK THEY POTENTIALLY COULD. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL. I THINK THEY COULD. ONE OTHER THING THAT I THINK THE THE STATE HAS CONSIDERED IN THEIR THEIR MAPPING AND I DON'T KNOW, LIKE YOU'RE ASKING THE EXACT CRITERIA THEY USE TO DETERMINE THIS, BUT IF YOU'LL RECALL, WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE FIRST MAP THAT WE CREATED, SOME OF THOSE PLACES YOU LOOK AT AND IT'S NOT REALLY WELL, FLYING EMBERS ARE ALSO A PART OF IT. 
          SO AS IT BUILDS OUT THAT THAT MAY CHANGE THEIR THEIR FORMULA. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ALONG THAT WESTERN EDGE, THERE WILL PROBABLY ALWAYS BE SOME KIND OF BUFFER AMOUNT. SURE. BUT IT WOULD, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, IT WOULD SLOW THE SPREAD RATE, WHICH COULD IMPACT IF IT IS STILL CATEGORY FIVE, RIGHT? I MEAN, JUST CAST YOUR MIND BACK 30 YEARS AGO WHEN NONE OF THE STREETS ON THIS MAP EXISTED. WHERE'S THAT BROWN LINE NOW? RIGHT. AND NOW, 30 YEARS LATER, WE'VE GOT 8000 AS OF TODAY, 10,000 RESIDENTS NOW THAT ARE LIVING IN WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NO SPACE. WERE WE. AND NOW AND NOW THEY'RE NOT. BECAUSE NOW THEY'RE JUST URBAN. 
          THEY'RE NOT WILDLAND URBAN. SO AS THAT BUILDS OUT, THAT'S GOT TO PUSH THAT LINE. SO THE YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AND I SAID THIS MAP THAT THEY CREATED, HE'S TAKEN AWAY THE THE SCORES THAT ARE ONE, TWO, THREE AND FOUR. RIGHT. BUT WHEN LAST LAST YEAR THE STATE HAD SHOWN WHERE THAT WAS. WHAT WAS DECIDED THIS YEAR IN LEGISLATION WAS WHICH SCORES CUT OFF POINT. AND I REMEMBER LOOKING AT IT LIKE A BORE AND SAYING IF IT'S GOING TO BE A FOUR, YEAH, WE GOT IT ALL THE WAY TO YOU. YEAH, I CAN I CAN SEE HOW THAT UNDEVELOPED AREA ON THE WEST SIDE IS A WILDLAND THREAT, BUT IN 20 YEARS IT'S NOT GOING TO BE. IT'S ALL GOING TO BE BUILT OUT TO THE EDGE, RIGHT. YOU KNOW, AND SO I WAS HAPPY THAT THEY SETTLED ON THE FIVE. I THEN AGAIN, MAYBE, MAYBE IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT THOUGH, BECAUSE LOOK AT WHERE SOUTHWEST QUADRANT IS. THERE'S NOTHING THERE NOW AND IT'S STILL NOT. IT'S RELATIVELY FLAT. WELL, IT'S RELATIVELY FLAT. IT'S RELATIVELY FAIR. AND IT'S ALSO FARMLAND. IT'S JUST GRASS. YEAH. 
          OR WHATEVER IT IS THEY FARM OUT THERE. SO I THINK WE WANTED TO BRING THIS TO YOU JUST TO HAVE MORE OF A DISCUSSION LIKE WE'VE HAD AND YOUR COMMENTS AND FEEDBACK. WE WILL GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE WILL HAVE TO MOVE WITH THE LAW SO THAT PATRICK AND I ARE BOTH HERE TOMORROW. WE WILL WE WILL HAVE TO MOVE THAT DIRECTION. BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID, I MEAN, IS THERE COMMENTS, IS THERE MORE INFORMATION I CAN PROVIDE? I COULD TALK MORE TO THE FEES IF YOU REALLY WANTED. I'M ONLY CURIOUS TO THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE IN THE ZONE KNOW THEY'VE BEEN NOTIFIED IF THERE HAVE BEEN A REASON WHY IT'S BROWN. YEAH. YES, THERE HAVE BEEN LIKE COMMUNITY MEETINGS PUT ON BY FORESTRY, FIRE AND STATE LANDS, BUT THERE HAVEN'T. THEY HAVEN'T GONE OUT TO THE COMMUNITIES. IF THEY'D HAD ONE FOR THIS COURSE. YEAH. I WAS GOING TO SAY ARE THEY LIKE ARE THEY GOING TO FIND OUT IN THEIR INSURANCE PROVIDERS. SO WHAT WILL WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THE FIRST TWO YEARS OF THE PROGRAM SINCE THEY'VE BEEN NOW PUSHED TILL 27 AND 28, THEY'LL RECEIVE THAT FLAT FEE BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE, 20 TO $100 A YEAR. AND 
          [01:50:04]
THEN AFTER THAT, IT'LL BE A RISK BASED TIERED TYPE PROGRAM WHERE THEY WERE CAPTURED. LIKE IF A HOMEOWNER SAYS, WELL, I'M GOING TO PULL THESE TREES DOWN THAT ARE DEAD, BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY SOMEBODY TO DO IT, BUT IT'S A FIRE HAZARD, THEN THEY WILL BE ASSESSED A HIGHER FEE THAN IF SOMEBODY THAT'S PROVIDED DEFENSIBLE SPACE AROUND THEIR HOME. BUT I THINK TO YOUR POINT AND YOUR QUESTION, IT WILL CHANGE. I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT OTHER THAN THE THE WHAT WE CALL THE EMBER RAIN, IF YOU WILL, WE CAN ALL FEEL GOOD KNOWING THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES WON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. SO ABSOLUTELY NOT THE QUESTION. THE DUMB QUESTION I HAVE, AND THIS GOES TO WHAT BOB WAS SAYING ABOUT ABOUT ADVICE AND CONSENT. THE STATE SAYS YOU WILL VOTE ON THIS. WELL, IF THE STATE SAYS I WILL VOTE, THEN I CAN VOTE NO. IF THE STATE SAYS THIS IS WHAT IT IS, PERIOD. AND THIS IS WHAT IT IS, AND THERE'S A MAP, AND HERE IT IS, AND THIS IS YOUR MAP PLUS JORDAN AND JOY, THEN, OKAY, THAT'S OUR MAP, RIGHT? THE STATE SAYS HERE YOU HAVE A CHOICE. CITY COUNCIL VOTE YES OR NO. RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW, THERE THERE IS BASED ON WHAT I'VE HEARD. IN FACT, I WAS IN A MEETING THIS AFTERNOON WITH THE OTHER CHIEFS, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS VERY THING. THERE IS AN OPTION TO PETITION THE STATE AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PROCESS IS YET. SO I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, EXACTLY. 
          SO THERE IS AN OPTION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT IF WE HAVE A DEADLINE, WE HAVE TO ADOPT THIS. I MEAN, THE STATE HAS ADOPTED THE MAP, BUT WE ADOPT IT AND THEN WE COME BACK LATER AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO PETITION AND WE DON'T WE DON'T AGREE THAT THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED. WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT PROCESS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT. I JUST I JUST THIS HAPPENED ONCE WAY BACK IN THE EARLY, EARLY DAYS. WE HAD A DECISION THAT WAS ALREADY MADE, STAFF WAS ALREADY MOVING FORWARD. AND THEN THEY CAME TO COUNCIL AND SAID, HERE, VOTE ON THIS. AND NO, YOU KNOW, YOU YOU'RE ALREADY YOU'RE ALREADY DIGGING UP THE LAND AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO APPROVE YOUR ZONING. AND IT'S LIKE, GOT SIX HOUSES. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT IF THIS, IF THE STATE'S GOING TO SAY YOU HAVE TO ADOPT THIS MAP, THEN STATE ADOPT THE MAP AND WE'LL BE YOUR HUMBLE, OBEDIENT SUBDIVISION AND SAY, YES, BUT DON'T COME TO ME AND GIVE ME A YES OR NO VOTE. YEAH. AS I'M SEARCHING RIGHT HERE AND I WAS AWARE OF WHAT CHIEF MAXFIELD MENTIONED, THERE'S JUST NO REAL VEHICLE. THERE'S LIKE, HEY, YOU CAN GO HERE, BUT WHAT DOES THAT VEHICLE LOOK LIKE? AND WHAT THIS HAS UNDER HOUSE BILL 41, WHICH I'VE BEEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IT JUST SAYS YOU CAN SUBMIT A WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION. IF WE FEEL WE ALREADY VOTED ON IT. YEAH. YES, MA'AM. WE COULD SUBMIT A WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION IF WE WANTED TO CAPTURE SOMETHING DIFFERENT. BECAUSE BASED ON WHAT THE LAW SAYS NOW IS WE HAVE TO ADOPT A NEW MAP. 
          BUT IT'S NOT TODAY. I THINK THAT BASED ON WHAT I READ EARLIER, IT WOULD CAPTURE IMPLEMENTED IMPLEMENTATION DELAY. HOUSE BILL 41 OFFICIALLY DELAYS THE ENFORCEMENT OF NEW BUILDING CODES AND HOMEOWNER FEES FROM JANUARY 1ST TO 26 TO JANUARY 1ST OF 27. LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NOW HAVE AN EXTRA YEAR TO ADOPT THE MANDATORY CODE AND UPDATE THEIR LOCAL ORDINANCES. ADOPTING MANDATORY CODE. THEY ALREADY TOLD US TO DO IN DECEMBER. CAN THEY DO OUR FIREWORKS RESTRICTIONS WHILE THEY'RE AT IT? I MEAN, NO, BECAUSE THEY'LL LET THEM HAVE THEM EVERYWHERE. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. I CAN TELL YOU, IF WE WENT TO THEM WITH A MAP ON THAT LITTLE PIXELIZATION, THEY WOULD JUST GO AHEAD AND TAKE OUT. THEY WOULD DO THE ENTIRE ROW OF THOSE. YEAH. THEY MAKE CONTINUE THROUGH. THEY WOULDN'T TAKE THOSE OFF. CHIEF, IF WE LEFT THE GREEN OFF IS THE BROWN UNDERNEATH WHERE WE HAVE SOME GREEN RIGHT ALONG THE BLUE. 
          YEAH. YEAH. SO THIS THIS IS ALL BROWN, I. OKAY. MY POINT WAS THAT WE HAVE GREEN SPACE AND IT'S STILL LABELED. YEAH. WHERE WE HAVE GREEN SPACE HERE AND IT'S NOT. YEAH. YEAH. SO IN SOME OF THAT WE BELIEVE HAS TO DO WITH HOW THEY, AS SOMEONE DOING A PEN DOING THIS, AT LEAST THEY DON'T HAVE BROWN GOING DOWN ALL OUR CANALS NOW. SO YEAH, THE FIREWORKS WILL SHOW THAT. YEAH. AND ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR. YEAH. THE FIRST MAP HE BROUGHT TO US FROM THEM HAD YOUR NEW YEAR. OH, HERE WE GO. YEAH. AND IT DID. SO THEY ACTUALLY MADE IT BETTER BY SAYING THAT THAT SPARK WASN'T PART OF THIS. YEAH. THEY AT LEAST I MEAN, IT'S A LITTLE BIT. 
          SO I THINK I THINK IT'S, IT'S DEFINITELY FAIR, BUT CAPTURING THAT BASED ON IS THE MAP UP TO 
          [01:55:08]
DATE. IS THIS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD THIS TO IS I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF UNKNOWNS. AND AGAIN, WHILE WE HAVE A DESTINATION, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE PERFECT VEHICLE. WE PASS PERFECT BILLS EVERY SESSION. THERE'S NO NEED FOR THE NEXT SESSION. SO I LIKE TO ADD. SO IS IT BETTER THAN THE LAST TIME WE TALKED? IT IS PERFECT NOW. THE LAST TIME WE TALKED, WE AGREED ON YOUR FIVE FEET THING SO THAT WAS BETTER. IT WILL IMPACT LESS. YES, MA'AM. 
          SO WHEN WE I THINK WE ARE TO TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE MORE IN A COUNCIL MEETING IN TWO WEEKS. OKAY. THE REALITY IS, IF IT HAPPENS, THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BLAME THE CITY OR THEY'RE GOING TO BLAME THE STATE. YES, WE'RE GOING TO BE THE ONES WITH THE PUBLIC HEARINGS. YES. TO MAKE SURE THAT WE. BECAUSE WE MADE THE WE MADE THE ACTUAL GOOD PART OF THE MAP. WE DIDN'T MAKE THE BAD PART. BUT WHAT I WANT TO KNOW WHEN IT DOES COME BACK IS WHAT HAPPENS IF WE VOTE NO. SO THEY'RE STILL GOING TO CHARGE WHOEVER'S IN THAT AREA. SO WE MIGHT AS WELL SAY, NO, I'M OPPOSED TO THIS. YEAH. AND DO WE HAVE A VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD TO EXPAND THE WATER TREATMENT PLANT? AND IT WAS BASICALLY VOTE YES. YOU CAN'T VOTE NO. RIGHT? SO. IT HAPPENS. PERFORMATIVE RUBBER STAMPS, NOT JUST ADVICE AND CONSENT. YEAH. 
          THERE WASN'T MUCH ASKED OF LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENTS EITHER. IT WAS YOU CAN TELL. WELL, I AM TOTALLY OKAY WITH THE STATE IMPOSING A MAP ON PARTS. WE ARE A SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE. 
          IMPOSE YOUR MAP UPON US. DON'T ASK ME TO GIVE IT A YES OR A NO RUBBER STAMP, THOUGH. IF YOU CLOSE YOUR MOUTH AND CLOSE YOUR MAP, BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT OUR CITIZENS CAN LOOK UP AND SAY, WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S A STATE? IT'S LIKE, IT'S LIKE SIGNING SOMETHING UNDER DURESS. 
          SO WE ALL KNOW THAT WOULD BE COOL. LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS. LET'S SHAKE UP THE SYSTEM IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY. AT LEAST THEY KNOW THAT IT WASN'T US. I STOPPED TAKING NOTES ON THAT, SO I PICKED UP WITH MY FAVORITE ON MY TABLET. I'LL DO SOME MORE AND BRING SOME MORE INFORMATION, BUT WE APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION YOU'VE GIVEN US. YOU CAN TELL US IF OR NOT. 
          THAT'S YOU KNOW, MY JOB DESCRIPTION DOESN'T GET TO THAT. YOU SAY THAT'S UP TO YOU. ABOVE YOUR PAY GRADE. EASILY. IT FALLS TO YOU. SO WE'LL LOOK FORWARD. WE ALL JUST VOTE NO. 
          WHAT KIND OF SITUATION? EXACTLY? WHAT WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING. YEAH. THEY'RE LIKE, ARE THEY REALLY GOOD? THE ANSWER IS NO ONE KNOWS. I SO, SO YOU'VE, YOU'VE YOU'VE ADOPTED YOU ADOPTED THE UTAH WILDLAND FIRE CODE. YEP. THAT'S ALREADY IN. YOU ADOPTED A MAP THAT SAYS, WHERE DO WE WANT THIS CODE TO APPLY? PART OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOUGH HERE IS, IS THE STATE SAYING, HERE'S WHO WE'RE GOING TO ASSESS A FEE TO. YOU DON'T NECESSARILY GET TO DECIDE WHO THE STATE APPLIES THEIR VETO. YOUR MAP ISN'T ISN'T WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO USE. 
          THEY'RE RECOMMENDING THAT YOUR MAP JUST REFLECT THEIR. THEY'RE FIVE AND ABOVE. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO. BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXEMPT PEOPLE FROM THE STATE FEES. AND YOU'VE STILL GOT TO DESIGNATE SOMETHING AS RUBY. MY CONCERN THAT I WAS JUST TALKING TO PATRICK ABOUT IS IF WE ADOPT SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY, WHAT DOES THAT CREATE AS A RESIDENT, GOING TO COME AND SAY, WELL, YOU'VE OUTLINED THIS AS THE CODE, BUT THE STATE'S CHARGING ME THIS THIS ASSESSMENT. IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR ME, THOUGH IT DOES CREATE OTHER PROBLEMS TO HAVE THOSE ALIGNED. AND THAT'S WHERE WHEN WE ADOPTED THE CODE AND WE HAD TO COME UP WITH A MAP, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY DIRECTION ABOUT WHAT THE STATE WAS GOING TO DO. 
          WE DID THE BEST WE COULD WITH THE 500FT. NOW, THEY'VE SINCE ADOPTED THIS, AND I THINK THE PROPOSAL WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD NOW IS CAN WE ALIGN THOSE? AND SO DO WE. IN OTHER WORDS, DO WE ADJUST OUR WUI MAP ZONE TO MATCH THIS PARTS OF IT THAT WE. WE GO THIS WAY ON SOME AND WE PUSH BACK ON SOME. WE GIVE AND TAKE THE OTHER. THE OTHER THING. I WAS JUST GOING TO LET YOU KNOW. SO THE WILDLAND. THE CODE. THE WILDLAND CODE HAS CONDITIONS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. 
          SO FOR FOR THESE AREAS THAT THERE'S NO HOMES THERE AND STUFF. WHEN SOMEBODY DOES GO IN 
          [02:00:06]
AND BUILD AND THEY'RE IN THE ZONE, THEY'RE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE FIRE HARDINESS BUILDING REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE, THAT ARE GOING TO GO IN THERE. THAT WON'T BE NECESSARY, NECESSARILY NECESSARY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. IT'LL BE EXPENSIVE. AND THEY'LL BE AWARE THEY'LL BE AWARE THAT THEY'RE BUILDING IN THAT AREA. THAT'S THEY'LL PROBABLY NOT BE HAPPY ABOUT IT. THEY'LL RUN UP ON THE HILL TO THE LEGISLATURE. THE LEGISLATURE WILL ROLL OVER FOR THE DEVELOPERS, AND THEN WE WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS. 
          LET'S JUST GIVE IT A LITTLE TIME. EXACTLY. YOU SAID IT, GOVERNMENT. GREAT. BUT IT'S SO TRUE. REPRESENTATIVE PETERSON AND SENATOR VICKERS, WHICH PETERSON, THOMAS W. PETERSON. 
          THERE'S FOUR. SO. SO WE'LL BE BACK TO TALK SOON. ALL RIGHT. AND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS BEFORE THEN, WORK THROUGH IT AND WE'LL TRY TO PROVIDE WORK THROUGH. ALLEN. AND THEN WE WILL TRY TO PROVIDE WHATEVER INFORMATION WE CAN GLEAN FROM THE STATE. AND THE PLAN IS TO BRING THE MAP TO YOU AT APRIL 28TH MEETING, AS WELL AS THE FIREWORK MAP. OKAY. THAT HAS TO BE SENT TO THE COUNTY BY MAY 1ST. HOW ARE OTHER CITIES FEELING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE GETTING IMPOSED ON THEM? DO YOU KNOW OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE NOT AS APPRECIATIVE AS ONE WOULD THINK? JUST BECAUSE IT BECOMES A LOT MORE THERE. UNIFIED FIRE IS GOING OUT AND HAVING ALL THESE MEETINGS WITH THEIR DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND ALL OF THEIR COMMUNITIES ARE THE SAME. SO YOU HAVE TO BE LIKE MILL CREEK IS, IS KIND OF A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE BECAUSE OF HOW IT'S THROUGHOUT THAT SIDE OF THE VALLEY AND CAPTURING SOME PERSON HAS WILL HAVE TO PAY WHILE ANOTHER DOESN'T, THEIR FRIEND DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY. AND THEN THERE'S, THERE'S SOME HEADACHE THERE. SO THEY GO TO THE LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT OR FIRE AGENCY AND ARE UPSET. BUT IT WAS THE BILL CAME FROM LEGISLATORS, NOT FIRE DEPARTMENTS. SO, SO OKAY WITH THE LEGISLATURE SAYING THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY FOR WHATEVER REASON FOR WHATEVER. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. I'M NOT OKAY WITH LEGISLATURE SAYING THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY AND CITY. YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT IT'S OKAY THAT WE SAY THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY. YEAH. AND THEY DON'T GIVE US A CHOICE. 
          SO IF THERE'S A CHOICE. FOR OTHER CITIES. OH YES, MA'AM. IT'S JUST. WAS THAT IT'S IT. I CAN I CAN GET THAT TOO. IT'S JUST A WEBSITE AND I CAN PROVIDE THAT AND INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO GET THERE. THAT'D BE GREAT. I'LL GET IT FROM HIM. OR YOU CAN EMAIL IT TO THE COUNCIL. 
          I'LL EMAIL IT TO YOU. YEAH. JUST TO CAPTURE THOSE THOSE IDEAS AND NEEDS AND YOU'LL SEE CERTAIN PEOPLE. OH, YEAH. YEAH, WE'LL PROVIDE THAT. I'LL WORK ON THAT HERE. WE'LL BE AT COUNCIL TONIGHT. SO I HAVE A QUICK MINUTE TO DO THAT. WE APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT TOO. AT LEAST I CAN DO. THANK YOU. SO DON'T SAY IT'S THE LEAST YOU CAN DO. WELL, AT LEAST I COULD DO. I MEAN, MOST I COULD DO IS GET RID OF THAT, BUT THAT'S FINE. WHAT I HEAR FROM COUNCIL. ALL RIGHT. WILDFIRE RISK.GOV. YOU HAVE THAT ALREADY. YEAH. SHARE THAT. REAL QUICK. I HAD AN IDEA. I JUST WANT TO SEE IF ANYONE HAS 
          [ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS]
ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT. THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE A PART OF THIS. THE SUGAR FACTORY PLAYOFFS IS GOING TO BE DOING GOOD. AND THERE IS A CITY COUNCIL SCENE IN THAT. OH, AND I TALKED TO THEM ABOUT MAYBE HAVING ACTUAL CITY COUNCIL ACTUALLY DO ONE NIGHT. NOT EVERY NIGHT, BUT JUST ONE NIGHT. THAT'S A SPECIAL CAN WE GET A CREDIT AS HIMSELF? BUT I'M I'M STILL I TALKED TO THE DIRECTOR JUST BRIEFLY. I SAID, WELL, LET ME BEFORE I START SAYING, YES, THE CITY COUNCIL IS NOT GOOD PEOPLE I KNOW. OH, I KNOW, BUT UNLIKE YOU AND I, I'M NOT EVEN SURE IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE LOOKED AT THE SCRIPT ABOUT HOW MANY ACTUAL CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS THERE ARE, BUT IF ANY OF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT, LET ME KNOW AND I'LL. I'LL SEE BECAUSE I JUST THINK IT'D BE FUN ONE NIGHT. TO SPEAK IN MY. OH YEAH. SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT. 
          I JUST SAID IT'S NEVER TOO LATE TO START. I WILL, I WILL TELL YOU THAT OUR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, I DIRECTED HER IN SEVERAL PLAYS AND THAT'S WHAT GOT HER INTO. SHE TELLS PEOPLE THAT I TAUGHT HER EVERYTHING SHE KNOWS ABOUT BEING A POLITICIAN. AND I SAID, EXCEPT 
          [02:05:02]
THE LYING PART. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT WAS JUST ME JOKING? SHE. EXPLORER, THAT'S WHY I. I INVITED GOVERNOR COX AND COX TO THAT PLAY. I DON'T KNOW WHICH. HAVEN'T RESPONDED BACK YET, BUT WE'RE GOING TO PERFORM EACH NIGHT. YOU'RE GOING TO BE THERE. I COULD I'LL I'LL CHECK MORE WITH IT AND THEN I'LL PUT OUT SOMETHING TO THE COUNCIL. JUST LET YOU KNOW. I JUST THINK IT'D BE KIND OF A LITTLE FUN THING. STRUCTURE, EXPOSURE. YOU GET RID OF THOSE HIGH RISK PROPERTIES BECAUSE WHAT WE'LL DO IS JUST. AND SPEAKING OF WHICH, TONIGHT, TONIGHT IS NIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO GO DO SOME ANGRY DANCING IN THE HALLWAY DURING OUR BREAK. AND I'M
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.