Jun 23, 2026 Committee of the Whole

[00:00:05]

GOING UP. ALL RIGHT EVERYONE, WELCOME. WELCOME. NOW THAT THE MAYOR IS HERE, WE CAN BEGIN OUR WEST JORDAN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING STARTING AT 401 ON THIS TUESDAY, JUNE 23RD. WE HAVE ALL OF OUR CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, EXCEPT FOR ZAC JACOB THAT I BELIEVE IS GOING TO BE ONLINE SHORTLY. WE WILL. OH, HE IS ONLINE NOW. THAT'S HOW SHORTLY IT WAS. SO WE WELCOME

[a. Amending the Property Tax Impact Schedule for Fiscal Year 2027]

SO WE'RE GOING TO TALK TODAY ABOUT THE PROPERTY TAX IMPACT SCHEDULE. I KNOW THAT YOU'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT, BUT WHEN YOU PREPARE IT THE FIRST TIME IN MAY, YOU DON'T HAVE NUMBERS. AND THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER THAT WE HAVE TO PUT ON THE STATEMENT. AND THAT IS THE NUMBER THAT'S IN THE CERTIFIED TAX RATE SYSTEM, WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW FOR ME TO ESTIMATE NEW GROWTH. SO NEW GROWTH WAS NEVER ASSUMED IN THE ORIGINAL PROPERTY TAX IMPACT STATEMENT.

OKAY. WHICH IN OUR BUDGET IS $750,000. BUT WHEN IT ACTUALLY CAME IN, IT CAME IN HIGHER THAN OUR BUDGET BY $221,000. SO. I MUST NOT HAVE LOOKED AT THIS ONE. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT ONE.

WE KNOW. YOU MIGHT HAVE LOOKED AT THE ONE FOR THE CITY MEETING. CAN WE PULL UP THE CITY MEETING ONE SORRY, I APOLOGIZE, BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THERE WERE TWO SEPARATE ONES BECAUSE BECKY THANKFULLY PUT THESE TOGETHER. WE JUST APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW IT WASN'T.

GET UP BY SLIDE TWO. OH, WAIT, YOU'RE IN PHASE I DON'T WANT FOR CITY COUNCIL. SO YOU'RE IN ALL OF THEM TOGETHER. OH IT IS I KNOW. YES. OH, CCFES0. GOT IT. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. JUST FAKED THIS OUT OF YOUR FILES. DIDN'T SYNC WITH. SORRY. YOU GET A PREVIEW OF YOUR MEETING. OH, THERE IT IS. OH, GOOD. I'M LIKE IT WAS GREEN, PLUS I GREEN. GREEN. RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY, SO WE NEED TO AMEND THE PROPERTY TAX IMPACT SCHEDULE. THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. SO IN THE BLACK IS WHAT WE PRESENTED TO YOU AND WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN SINCE MAY.

AGAIN, THAT ORIGINAL PROPOSED REVENUE WITH TAX CHANGE AND THE CERTIFIED PROPERTY TAX REVENUE, THOSE ARE WITHOUT NEW GROWTH ESTIMATES AT ALL. IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT TO THEM. SO THE INCREASE IS $500,418. THE NEW GROWTH CAME IN. WE HAD ESTIMATED 750. IT CAME IN HIGHER. SO NOW THE NEW TAX IS 23,000,638. OUR CERTIFIED PROPERTY TAX REVENUE IS 23,000,168. SO YOU CAN SEE THE CHANGE ON BOTH THESE NUMBERS. IT'S NOT JUST ONE. OKAY. BOTH OF THESE CHANGED. SO THE DIFFERENTIAL IS $500,418, WHICH IS WHAT THE TAX INCREASE IS THAT YOU'VE BEEN COMMUNICATING. THE PROPERTY TAX RATE FOR 2025 IS WHAT IT IS. WE DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT 2026. THE CERTIFIED RATE IS 00281. SO MUCH LOWER THAN OUR 1328 THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. AND WITH THE TAX INCREASE, IT WOULD GO TO 001309 STILL LOWER THAN OUR CURRENT RATE. RIGHT NOW. THE INCREASE BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE DIFFERENTIALS IN THE NUMBERS, WHEN YOU BROADEN THE BASE OUT AND ADD MORE MONEY TO IT, THEN THE PERCENTAGE OF THE INCREASE IS GOING TO GO DOWN WENT FROM 2.26% TO 2.19%. AND THEN THIS CHANGE. SO WE DID NOT KNOW OUR RESIDENTIAL NUMBER. WE DIDN'T AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL NUMBER FOR THE NEW YEAR. SO WE USED LAST YEAR, WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO. THIS WAS THE INCREASE $8.96 AND $16.30 TO BUSINESSES BASED ON WHAT WE KNEW AT THE TIME. HOWEVER, THE VALUES INCREASED, BUT THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX INCREASE DECREASED. SO THE IMPACT IS LESS BY LIKE $0.30. SO WHAT

[00:05:02]

AFTER THAT, THEN YOU CAN ADJUST THAT BY PUBLIC HEARING ALL KINDS OF THINGS. RIGHT? BUT FOR NOW, $500,418 IS GOING FORWARD AS WHAT'S ADVERTISED AS YOUR TAX INCREASE WITH THE PROPERTY TAX NOTICES. BUT THE ITEMS THAT ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT $500,418 ARE UP TO YOU AT THIS POINT. THEY NEED TO BE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO SAY ARE WHICH WOULD BE THE RIGHT AFTER YOU ADOPT THE BUDGET. IT NEEDS TO BE AMENDED BY COUNCIL, BY RESOLUTION, WHICH YOU'LL DO IN YOUR WORKING MEETING TONIGHT. BUT OUR BEST PRACTICE IS TO HAVE WHATEVER YOU SAY TODAY AS THOSE ITEMS KIND OF STICK FOR A WHILE AT LEAST, SO THAT WHEN RESIDENTS GET THEIR PROPERTY TAX NOTICE AND LOOK AT OUR WEBSITE, YOU'RE NOT CHANGING THINGS, RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT GOING, OH, THIS IS A SHELL GAME. SO RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW WHAT? THOSE ITEMS ARE WRONG MOUSE.

WE'VE GONE THROUGH THEM MANY, MANY TIMES. RIGHT. IT'S YOUR FULL TIME PARKS MAINTENANCE WORKER, YOUR PARKS PLANNER, YOUR CROSSING GUARD SUPERVISOR, YOUR BEAT DAYS, THE POLICE OFFICER POSITION UPGRADE, THE FULL TIME PASSPORT AGENT GIVING UP TWO PART TIMERS, AND THE FULL TIME CUSTOMER SERVICE PERSON OUT OF THE PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING. AND THAT'S THAT.

THAT'S ALL OF THEM. ANY OF THOSE COULD CHANGE. YOU MAY SAY, I AM NOT WILLING TO GO WITHOUT THE POLICE LIEUTENANT UNTIL SEPTEMBER 1ST. I WANT IT TO HAPPEN ON JULY 1ST, SO I WANT THAT TO BE INCLUDED IN THE NORMAL BUDGET. THAT'S EFFECTIVE ON JULY 1ST. AND I WANT TO REPLACE THOSE DOLLARS WITH SOMETHING ELSE. BUT THE SOMETHING ELSE WOULD NEED TO BE ON THAT PROPERTY TAX IMPACT SCHEDULE. COULD BE ANYTHING THAT YOU'D LIKE. AND SO COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB AND I HAVE HAD A COUPLE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOME IDEAS HE'S HAD, AND I KNOW HE WANTS TO SPEAK TO THOSE, BUT I WANT THE COUNCIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE ITEMS ARE UP FOR DISCUSSION. THE DOLLAR AMOUNT NEEDS TO STAND UNTIL AFTER WE ADOPT THE BUDGET. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT OR WHEN DO WE WHEN IS THAT POINT? TONIGHT. OKAY. SO DOES HE WANT TO SPEAK? YEAH.

YEAH. ZACH. ZACH WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THAT. YEAH. NO. NO PROBLEM.

I WAS JUST SEEING IF THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE HERE THAT HAD SOME QUESTIONS BEFORE THAT. ZACH, THE FLOOR IS YOURS RIGHT NOW IF YOU'D LIKE. COUNCIL MEMBER. JACOB. I WANTED TO THANK YOU.

YES. YOU IN THE CEILING NOW, THOUGH. IT'S KIND OF WEIRD. YOU ALL ARE IN MY LAPTOP, SO IT WORKS OUT WELL. YEAH. ONE THING THAT THAT I WANTED TO BRING UP, AND I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF DAYS

[00:10:03]

IN MY OPINION, THESE THINGS ARE NOT. REQUIRED BECAUSE THE COSTS HAVE GONE UP. THEY'RE REQUIRED.

THE CITY. GROWN, THE CITY HAS GROWN BY $160,000 MORE THAN WE THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO GROW BY.

AS FAR AS REVENUE GOES, RIGHT. SO INSTEAD OF A 750 THAT WE HAD IN THE, IN THE IN THE BUDGET, WE HAVE TEN AND THAT. MEANS THAT WE'RE SAYING. PROPERTY TAX IMPACT STATEMENT. WHAT I WOULD RATHER DO IS IDENTIFY SOMETHING THAT COSTS MORE BECAUSE I'M NOT WILLING TO RAISE TAXES TO HIRE A PERSON BECAUSE. THINGS COST MORE. WE NEED TO HIRE A PERSON BECAUSE OUR STUDENTS ARE BIGGER.

SO BECAUSE WE HAVE GROWTH IN THE CITY AND THEIR BE GROWTH PROPERTY TAXES, THAT SHOULD PAY FOR A PART. THINGS THAT COULD BE PAID FOR IN MY OPINION. BY. FOR. US, FOR INFLATION. FOR. IT WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO GO UP EVEN IF IT HADN'T GROWN AT ALL. ARE THINGS LIKE WAGES WE HAVE BUILT INTO THE BUDGET. WE HAVE MATERIAL INCREASES. HEALTH INSURANCE HAS GONE UP. I'M SURE YOU COULD GIVE US A WHOLE LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO INFLATION. HAVING DRIVEN UP PRICES OVER THE LAST YEAR. THAT WE COULD PUT ON THE STATEMENT SAYING, THIS IS WHAT YOUR PROPERTY TAX CHANGE IS GOING TO PAY FOR NOW, AGAIN, YOUR TAXES GOING DOWN. SO THIS IS YOUR PROPERTY TAX RATE GOING DOWN. NOT AS MUCH AS THE COUNTY SAYS IT SHOULD. WHAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT TODAY IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE FOR DISCUSSION IS WE PUT THE EMPLOYEE COLA IN THERE. WHAT'S THE NUMBER? COLA. THE BIG NUMBER. IT'S 2%, WHICH REPRESENTS ABOUT $980,000. ROUGHLY HALF OF THE COLA. RIGHT. THE $500,480 OR WHATEVER IT IS, IS ROUGHLY HALF A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF OF THE CODE. SO I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE GIVE THE EMPLOYEES HALF OF THEIR COLA ON JULY 1ST, AND HALF OF IT ON SEPTEMBER 1ST.

WHEN THE WHEN THE TAX INCREASE PASSES. NOW THE TAX INCREASE DOESN'T PASS AND WE STILL FEEL LIKE THE EMPLOYEES DESERVE THAT COLA. THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT ELSE WE'D LIKE TO CUT IN ORDER TO GIVE THAT TO THEM. AT THAT POINT, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON IT DOESN'T PASS. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO PUT IN THERE BECAUSE THAT'S A DIRECT IMPACT FROM INFLATION THAT WENT UP, FOR OUR EMPLOYEES, BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE INFLATION.

VERY DEFINITION. SO I WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR CONSIDERATION. SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR JUST SIT BACK AND LISTEN. CHAIR. YEAH, IF YOU'D LIKE TO BRING IN, I LIKE WHAT COUNCILMEMBER JACOB IS GOING WITH THIS. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS YEAR I HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO PREPARE THE EMPLOYEES, LET THEM KNOW THEY WOULDN'T GET THEIR FULL RAISE FOR MONTHS. THAT MIGHT BE A DIFFICULT ONE TO DO. I DON'T KNOW, I HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANYONE ABOUT IT. WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO? SO SO I LIKE THIS ONE, BUT I'D LIKE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE MAYBE FUEL COSTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH

[00:15:01]

THEY ALL COULD BE RESTRICTED IN EACH OF THE DEPARTMENTS UNTIL SEPTEMBER. AND SHOULD YOU NOT APPROVE THE TAX INCREASE, THEN WE COULD SUGGEST THINGS LIKE USING RESERVES FOR SOME OF THOSE THINGS, OR RESERVES OUT OF THE FLEET OR IT FUNDS. HOWEVER, WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO BUILD UP THOSE RESERVES IN THOSE FUNDS. SO THOSE WERE THE FOUR THINGS THAT I WOULD SAY ARE EASILY IDENTIFIED IN EACH DEPARTMENT THAT COULD BE RESTRICTED. COLA WOULD WOULD PROBABLY BE. IT'S A DIFFICULT MESSAGE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE EMPLOYEES HAVE HEARD A 2%. WE HAVEN'T PROMISED IT TO THEM BY ANY MEANS. IT ALWAYS SAYS WITH BUDGET APPROPRIATION. BUT BUT LIKE THE MAYOR SAID, HE HASN'T HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY RAMP THAT MESSAGING UP. BUT IT IS UP FOR DISCUSSION AND IT IS UP FOR APPROPRIATION IN THE BUDGET. ISN'T THERE ALSO AN ISSUE WITH HEALTH INSURANCE AS WELL? BECAUSE HEALTH INSURANCE CHANGES ON THE 1ST OF JULY, WHAT ISSUES WILL IT CAUSE BETWEEN JULY AND AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER WITH OUR HEALTH INSURANCE? WELL, WE ARE SELF-INSURED AND WE DO HAVE RESERVES IN THE HEALTH MANAGEMENT FUND, SO WE'D HAVE TO PUT MONEY IN RESERVE TO COVER IT. I DON'T LIKE THAT WE CAN JUST DO GAS. AND THEN IF WE DON'T HAVE IF IT DOESN'T PASS, THEN THERE CAN JUST PUT A SIDECAR ON HIS BIKE AND. YEAH, WE DO HAVE TWO ELECTRIC BIKES DOWNSTAIRS, RIGHT? YEAH. I WAS GOING TO BE OKAY WITH ANY OF THOSE. THE COLA ONE WAS JUST EASILY IDENTIFIABLE. AND WHEN YOU PUT THE COLA WITH THE MERIT INCREASE TOGETHER, YOU STILL GET ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF YOUR PROPERTY OF YOUR. YOU KNOW, YOUR RAISE, SO TO SPEAK, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE GETTING INCREASES AS WELL. SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING WAS JUST THE EASIEST WAY FOR ME, THE EASIEST WAY FOR ME TO VISUALIZE IT. BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE WAGES. IT CAN BE WHATEVER. I DON'T MIND. I'M FINE WITH, YOU KNOW, ASPHALT MATERIALS OR SOMETHING ELSE. IT CAN ONLY BE $500,418 OR WHATEVER. YES. RIGHT. YEAH. SO COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, GIVE ME YOUR RUNDOWN OF THIS. WHY YOU DON'T LIKE IT AS PROPOSED NOW? WELL, WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE IS THAT THESE THINGS THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED ARE NOT THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DO, BECAUSE COSTS HAVE GONE UP. WE DON'T NEED TO HIRE ANOTHER CUSTOMER SERVICE DIRECTOR BECAUSE COSTS HAVE GONE UP. CUSTOMER SERVICE REP. THE THING IS, IS WE'VE NEVER WE'VE NEVER SEPARATED OUT. GROWTH AND TAX AND PROPERTY TAX CARRYOVER. THE WAY WE HAVE IN THIS BUDGET.

JUST DUMP IT ALL INTO ONE PROPERTY TAX ROLL. IF I MAY, I, COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB AND COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK HAVE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL A LONG TIME, WITH PREVIOUS COUNCIL MEMBER GREEN COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB TOO, AND THIS WAS ONE OF HIS BIGGEST ARGUMENTS WAS THAT ANY ANY GROWTH SHOULD BE EQUAL TO WHATEVER NEW GROWTH WE RECEIVE IN THE CITY. AND SO COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB IS KIND OF TAKING THAT MESSAGE AND SAYING, WE RECEIVED $950,000 OF NEW GROWTH IN THE CITY FROM NEW BUSINESSES OR NEW HOMES OR WHATEVER THEY ARE, AND THAT THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING ADDED TO ARE REALLY RELATED TO NEW GROWTH. AND SO IF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ADDING ARE $500,000, WE'RE ONLY USING ABOUT HALF OF THE NEW GROWTH MONEY TO FUND REALLY THINGS THAT ARE NEW GROWTH RELATED, BUT THAT THE TAX INCREASE IS MORE ABOUT THE RISING COST OF THINGS BECAUSE OF INFLATION. AND THAT'S I'M NOT WILLING TO PAY. I'M NOT WILLING TO RAISE TAXES TO HIRE A PARTY PLANNER. WHY NOT? RIGHT. WHY NOT? BECAUSE THAT'S. THAT SHOULD COME FROM THE CITY HAVING MORE PROPERTY TAX BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE CITIES. AND I WOULD SAY

[00:20:05]

WE'RE GOING TO BE GIVING YOU EXTRA PEOPLE AT YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE. WE'RE GOING TO BE GIVING YOU THIS. WE'RE GOING TO BE GIVING YOU THIS. THOSE ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT MESSAGES. IF I'M MAKING IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE. AND SO I'M ASKING THIS COUNCIL, WHICH IS THE BETTER MESSAGE TO GET THE PEOPLE RELATED TO INFLATION. THE OTHER RELATED TO THE GROWTH OF THE CITY, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT. INFLATION, GROWTH, THE CITY, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY THEY'RE RAISING MY TAXES BECAUSE GAS PRICES WENT UP OR THEY'RE GIVING ME MY THEY'RE RAISING IT SO THAT I CAN GET MORE SERVICES. AND I'M JUST SEEING WHICH ONE IS THE BETTER MESSAGE TO GIVE IF I'M NOT SIMPLIFYING IT TOO MUCH. LIKE THERE'S STILL THE TWO MESSAGES, NO MATTER HOW WE MESSAGE IT, RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN SAYING IT, EVERYBODY HEARING THAT FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS, I'VE BEEN SAYING IT THAT WE WERE RAISING OUR KIDS AND OUR COSTS GO UP BECAUSE THE COST COSTS GO UP. IF HE DOESN'T SAID THIS A MILLION TIMES, THE CITY DOESN'T MAKE ANYTHING. THE CITY DOESN'T PRODUCE GOODS THAT WE SELL SO THAT WE BENEFIT FROM COSTS GOING UP. THE BUYS ASPHALT. WE DON'T MAKE IT. THE CITY BUYS GASOLINE. WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE HIRE PEOPLE. WE DON'T. CREATE. NOW I GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHICH MESSAGING. LIKE I SAID, I'M JUST TRYING TO PUT IT IN A SIMPLE SOMEONE JUST LOOKING AT TWO LINES OF, YOU KNOW, THE TOP PARAGRAPH OF WHATEVER WE WRITE UP FOR THIS, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE THINKING, WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO THEM? YEAH. AND I'M GOOD WITH ANY DISCUSSION FROM ANY OF THE COUNCIL HERE THAT CAN WEIGH IN ON THAT. WELL, SINCE I AM A CITIZEN AND I KNOW I HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW BECAUSE.

ARE YOU ALSO A RESIDENT, THOUGH? THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. YOUR OWN CONSTITUENTS, THE WAY I SEE IT IS NO MATTER HOW WE PUT THE LIPSTICK ON THE PIG, WE'RE DOING BOTH. SO I DON'T SEE WHY WAIT AND DO IT IN SEPTEMBER. I JUST ASSUME WE'RE GOING TO DO IT AND VOTE YES AND PASSES FOR THREE OR WHATEVER, THAT WE JUST DO IT ALL ON JULY 1ST. THAT'S MY OPINION. YOU PASSED THE INTERIM BUDGET, BUT THOSE THINGS ARE STILL RESTRICTED FOR TWO MONTHS. WHATEVER'S LISTED.

RIGHT. WHAT'S LISTED ON THE SCHEDULE. SO YOU'RE SAYING I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE? WELL, YOU HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN WHAT'S LISTED ON THE SCHEDULE, BUT WHATEVER IS LISTED IS ON HOLD, LIKE IT'S JUST HELD. SO THEN WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING IT THEN? THEN THE EMPLOYEE SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT, RIGHT? YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT IF IF WHAT WAS PRESENTED FROM THE MAYOR WAS A 2% INCREASE IN COLA THAT WAS GOING TO BE HELD HOSTAGE BY THE LEGISLATURE UNTIL SEPTEMBER, THAT WOULD HAVE ONLY BEEN IF THE MAYOR HAD LISTED IT AS AN ITEM. AND HE. THAT'S WHY HE DIDN'T LIST IT. OKAY. RIGHT. OTHER THINGS THAT. YEAH, OKAY. I THINK IT'S JUST SEMANTICS AND IT'S A MATTER OF HOW YOU WANT TO SELL A TAX INCREASE THAT ISN'T MAYBE AN INCREASE FOR MOST PEOPLE. SO IT ISN'T IT ISN'T BECAUSE QUITE CANDIDLY, THE TAKE THE COUNCIL'S PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THIS ISN'T A GIVEN, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S NOT ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD THAT IT WOULD GO THROUGH BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC. AND SO IF YOU WERE TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC AND, AND CHANGE YOUR MIND, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU PUT AT RISK TO SAY, WE HAVE

[00:25:04]

I CAN LIVE WITHOUT. REGARDLESS. WE HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT IT FOR TWO MONTHS. SO WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING THIS THEN? WE DON'T HAVE IT. SO I'M KIND OF CONFUSED IF WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE BECAUSE OF IT'S ALREADY SET UP THE WAY IT IS, WHAT ARE WE DISCUSSING? WELL, IF IT'S A PHILOSOPHY THAT MAYBE WE WANT TO KNOW. I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IT'S A PHILOSOPHY. BUT EVERYTHING I'M HEARING IS LIKE COUNCIL. THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. MAKE A DECISION. BUT I REALLY CAN'T MAKE A DECISION. YOU CAN MAKE A DECISION. LET'S LET'S SAY THAT COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB'S IDEA IS THE PHILOSOPHY THAT YOU SUPPORT. THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE ONE 1% OF THE COLA WOULD BE RESTRICTED AND HELD UNTIL SEPTEMBER 1ST, AND THEN IT COULD BE AWARDED TO EMPLOYEES OR NOT, DEPENDING ON IF YOU APPROVED IT. HOW DO I GET THEM TO COLA ON JULY 1ST? YOU GET THEM 1%. IF. IF ON JULY 1ST UNDER COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, YOU'D GO 1% COLA ON JULY 1ST AND 1% MORE ON SEPTEMBER 1ST UNDER WHAT IS CURRENTLY THERE. THAT THIS IS WHERE THE DECISION COMES IN. YOU GIVE THE 2% COLA ON JULY 1ST AND YOU HOLD ALL OF THE STUFF THAT'S BEING PRESENTED TO YOU THE PARKS, PLANNER, PARKS, MAINTENANCE WORKER, ALL THOSE CANNOT BE HIRED, NOT A DOLLAR SPENT ON THEM UNTIL AFTER THE TAX INCREASES IS DONE, WHICH IS SEPTEMBER 1ST. OKAY. I CAN DEAL WITH THAT. I DON'T WANT TO. I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT I DON'T WANT THE COLA TO BE SPLIT. NOW. THAT'S OKAY. I, I DON'T THINK I WANT THE COLA TO BE SPLIT IN HALF EITHER. IT'S, IT'S GOING TO SEND MESSAGES TO THE EMPLOYEE LIKE THEY'RE NOT APPRECIATED. YEAH. I LIKE THE MAYOR'S IDEA OF, OF USING THE FUEL AS OUR SCAPEGOAT IF YOU WILL. BUT THEN WHAT IF THE TAX INCREASE DOESN'T HAPPEN AND WE DON'T FUND THOSE POSITIONS.

THEN THEN HE'S GOT IT. MORE PEOPLE. ALWAYS AMEND THE BUDGET. THERE'S ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA. IF YOU DON'T. YEAH. SO I THINK IT'S ABOUT SETTING UP THE PHILOSOPHY. THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB'S IDEA IS. IT'S LIKE, IS THIS REALLY IS OUR PHILOSOPHY OF SLOW INCREASES RELATED TO INCREASED COST OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF INFLATION? YEAH. IT IS. SHOULD NEW GROWTH PAY FOR NEW GROWTH? YEAH. IT SHOULD. AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS BEING HAD TODAY IS AND WE HAVE TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION TODAY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO PEOPLE WHAT IS INCLUDED IN THE INCREASE. YES. IF THAT'S WHY THE CONVERSATION IS HAPPENING. HEARD MY SPEECH. I'VE GIVEN A. THIS TIME WE WANT TO HEAR IT IN HAMLET, AND I DO.

I DO HAVE TO SAY I'VE HEARD FROM DIFFERENT COUNCIL MEMBERS AND DIFFERENT CITIES AND THE CITY OR THE COUNTY COUNCIL THAT WISH THEY WOULD HAVE DONE WHAT WE DID A FEW YEARS AGO. YEAH, YEAH. BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING THESE BIG 15, 20% INCREASES. AND IF THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SMALLER ONES EARLIER, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE THAT ISSUE. COUNCIL. IF I IF I CAN JUST INTERJECT ALL, ALL OF THESE FUNDS ARE IN THE GENERAL FUND, WHICH HAVE THE TOTAL DISCRETION OF THE COUNCIL, HOW YOU ALLOCATE THEM. IT'S ALL GENERAL FUND MONEY. REALLY. WHAT DENISE IS SAYING IS THE THINGS THAT YOU PUT ON THE PROPERTY TAX STATEMENT ARE THINGS YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO WITHOUT IN SEPTEMBER, IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO DO THE FULL TWO POINT WELL, 2.26 NOW, 2.19 PROPERTY TAX INCREASE IN AUGUST. IF YOU GO LESS OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND MONEY, THOSE ITEMS ON THE PROPERTY TAX INCREASE SCHEDULE, YOU HAVE TO EITHER FIND A DIFFERENT WAY TO FUND THEM OR DO WITHOUT THEM. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT YOU HAVE TO.

WHATEVER IS ON THERE IS ON A PROVERBIAL CHOPPING BLOCK UNTIL UNTIL THE PROPERTY TAX VOTE IN

[00:30:01]

BUT IF THE PUBLIC CHANGES YOUR MIND AND YOU CHOOSE NOT TO FUND THAT, AND WE RUN OUT OF MONEY FOR FUEL, I WOULD COME BACK TO YOU WITH AN AMENDMENT AND HOPE THAT YOU WOULD DO THAT, OR WE WOULD WAIT ANYWAY TO HIRE THESE NEW EMPLOYEES UNTIL WE KNOW IT PASSED, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A WAY TO MAKE THAT AMENDMENT TO MAKE IT CLEAN AND NOT HIRE THEM AND REMOVE THE TAX, THE TAX DOWN AND MAKE THE ADJUSTMENT WITH THE FUEL WHICH WE HAVE TO PAY FOR ANYWAY. WE DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A CHOICE AND THEN NOT HAVE NO CHOICE IN ORDER TO PAY FOR FUEL WOULD BE SIMILAR TO IF FUEL COSTS GO UP AND YOU HAVEN'T BUDGETED FOR IT, YOU HAVE TO FIND A SOURCE SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO WITHOUT IT, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. BUT YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WE CAN. THERE ARE LOTS OF CHOICES TO MAKE, RIGHT? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING YOU TO DECIDE ABOUT ON AN AMENDMENT IS WHAT TO DO WITH THAT EXTRA $221,000. AND I THINK IN SOME MESSAGING, WE SAID, YOU KNOW, MY FIRST MY FIRST BLUSH AT IT, JUST TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT IS, IS TO SAY, I'M GOING TO REDUCE THE SALES TAX REVENUE IN THE GENERAL FUND FOR THE FOURTH OF THE FOURTH AND DIVERT IT OVER INTO THE CLASS C ROAD FUNDS SO THAT ONE TENTH OF THAT FOURTH OF THE FOURTH TAX, WHICH IS $221,000, IS GOING TO CLASS C ROADS. BECAUSE REMEMBER, AS WE DISCUSSED, WE'RE GOING TO BE RUNNING OUT OF FUNDING SOURCE FOR THAT. AND SO IT WOULD START MOVING A LITTLE BIT OF OUR DEPENDANCE ON OTHER GOVERNMENTS TO FUND CLASS C ROADS AND ROAD MAINTENANCE TO OUR SALES TAX REVENUE THAT COULD BE PULLED BACK INTO THE GENERAL FUND. RIGHT. YOU COULD SAY THAT'S WHAT WE IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO PASS THE INCREASE, WE'RE GOING TO PULL THAT $221,000 OUT OF CLASS C AND BACK INTO THE GENERAL FUND. THERE ARE YOU HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS, BUT IT'S ABOUT REALLY MESSAGING YOUR PHILOSOPHY AS TO WHY YOU'RE DOING THE TAX INCREASE. AND I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT YOU WANT TO ASK YOURSELF ON THE PART OF THAT GOES TO THAT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK AND OTHERS HAVE SAID IS WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO GIVE UP? BUT THAT ALSO IN THE MESSAGING, WHATEVER WE PUT OUT THERE FOR THE PUBLIC, WE'RE PUTTING OUT THE THING THAT IF WE PUT OUT THE THING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE MOST ANGRY AT US RAISING THEIR TAXES FOR, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO CAUSE THE OUTRAGE. YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE TO SUDDENLY DECIDE, SAY, FOR INSTANCE, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE RAISING MY THING JUST BECAUSE OF GAS GOING UP WHEN IT'S LIKELY GAS MIGHT GO DOWN BECAUSE OF BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, THAT THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT THAT CAUSES, YOU KNOW, THEIR FERVOR AND MAKES IT.

SO NOW WE'RE WONDERING. AND SO THAT'S, I WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, IN MY MIND, I'M THINKING THAT'S WHERE MESSAGING IS STILL THE KEY POINT. WHICH ONE ARE WE GIVING THEM? IF WE GIVE THEM THE ONE THAT THEY'RE MOST LIKELY TO BE UPSET ABOUT, BUT WE WERE WILLING TO GET, YOU KNOW, DO WITHOUT IT. AND THEY'RE GOING TO TELL US THEY WANT US TO DO WITHOUT IT. AND THEN WE HAVE TO DO WITHOUT IT. SO YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT FOLKS WILL BE MORE MAD ABOUT A TAX INCREASE THAT PAYS FOR FUEL COSTS. I JUST DO THAT OUT OF INFLATION. BUT JUST TO FOLLOW YOUR LOGIC, THEN THEY WOULD BE ABOUT FEES. THEY WE DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

WHATEVER WE THROW OUT THERE, I WOULD SAY IT SEEMS LIKE AS A AS A THINK I WOULD THINK, YEAH, NO, I AGREE, BUT I'M JUST, I JUST, I THINK I AGREE WITH YOU. IT WOULD BE MORE MAD ABOUT. YES, YES. NO, THAT'S 100% OKAY. BUT I THINK WE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF THE COLA BEING THE OFFERED ONE. I THINK IT JUST SENDS A BAD MESSAGE TO THE

[00:35:02]

SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE SHOULD RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR THE THINGS THAT TAXES ARE PAID FOR, WHICH IS MOSTLY EMPLOYEES. AND THAT'S THE LARGEST CHUNK OF THE BUDGET IS PERSONNEL COSTS.

SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MAKES SENSE AS WELL. THAT'S AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT HAS TO BE REFUNDED FOR THE ASPHALT. I'M FINE WITH IT BEING WHATEVER. BUT THIS IS WHY IT'S NEVER BEEN OPTIONAL TO ME. IT SHOULD BE THESE SMALL INCREASES BECAUSE OUR PRICES ARE GOING UP EVERY YEAR BECAUSE THAT'S NOT OPTIONAL. WE'RE NOT PAYING MORE FOR GAS. WE CAN NOT PAY MORE FOR EMPLOYEES IF WE'RE WILLING TO GIVE THEM RAISES. THOSE ARE NOT OPTIONAL. SO TO ME, THIS THIS 2% A YEAR. ADJUSTMENT IS NOT IT'S NOT OPTIONAL. TO ME. YEAH. BUT IT IS RIGHT THAT THE WORKER IS KIND OF OPTIONAL OR THE PART SUPERVISOR PERSON, WHATEVER THAT IS. IT'S KIND OF OPTIONAL. IT'S NECESSITATED BY GROWTH. BUT IS IT NECESSITATED RIGHT NOW BY THIS GROWTH. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT DISCUSSION TO HAVE THAT'S YOU KNOW, WHAT THE MAYOR PRIORITIZED TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON THIS YEAR. SO AS OPPOSED TO A FIREFIGHTER OR A POLICEMAN OR WHATEVER. SO IN ANY CASE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY FOR ME, IT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO GET THE PHILOSOPHY AND THE POLICY DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT IS EXPLAINABLE AND DEFENSIBLE, AND NOT JUST A FOLLOW TO MAKE PEOPLE LESS MAD. RIGHT? I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THIS UP, COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB, AND I AGREE WITH YOU. YEAH, I AGREE, WE JUST NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THAT, WHAT'S THE THING WE'RE GOING TO PRESENT AS THE REASON? IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THINGS COST MORE. INFLATION. YEAH, BUT THERE HAS TO BE A LINE ITEM. A FEW THINGS LIKE ASPHALT AND FUEL AND WHAT ELSE IS THERE A FEW THINGS, SOMETHING OBJECTIVE THAT IS MOST AFFECTED BY INFLATION. THOSE ARE THE FOUR THINGS WOULD BE THE COST OF LIVING INCREASE THE HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM FUEL AND IT COSTS. OKAY. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AS INFLATIONARY. YEAH. I DON'T MIND DOING THIS. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. TO ME, IT ALSO COMES DOWN TO THE MESSAGING, WHICH IS WHY I BRING THAT UP. THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE GET A LOT. HEALTH PREMIUM FUEL. IT'S. THANK YOU. FIRST I T OR IN HOUSE. IT EQUIPMENT. YEAH.

COST OF SERVERS STORAGE MEMORY IT COSTS. A LOT. I WAS THINKING ABOUT EMPLOYEES. I WAS LIKE, OH, THEY'RE JUST ANOTHER EMPLOYEE. YEAH. IT'S HURTING THEM MORE. THEY WISH IT WAS THAT. WELL, RIGHT. YOU NEVER WANTED TO SAY. TO PEOPLE. AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND TOO, OF COURSE.

BUT RIGHT NOW, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION, WAGES AND AND LIVING IN OUR BUDGET. AND LET'S JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A FACT OF LIFE. YEAH, YOU COULD SPLIT IT FOUR WAYS BETWEEN THOSE 125,000 FROM EACH OF THEM. AND THEN AND THEN ON AUGUST 11TH AND 23RD, WHEN YOU'RE DELIBERATING ON WHETHER TO MAKE THIS DECISION OR NOT, SHOULD YOU SAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PASS THIS TAX INCREASE, BUT I'M NEEDING THAT FUEL TO BE 100% NOW. NOW WE'RE GOING TO IDENTIFY A DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCE. THOSE ARE YOUR NEGOTIATIONS THAT OCCURRED IN AUGUST. I LIKE THAT IDEA. COULD WE SPLIT IT THREE WAYS AND NOT TOUCH THE COLA. THIS IS PLAY DOH TIME. OKAY. JUST TAKE OUT THE MAYOR'S SALARY. THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN THAT GOES WITHOUT

[00:40:03]

IT'S RELATED TO GROWTH. OUR MESSAGE IS, IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE MAYOR'S WAS. BUT YOU WILL RECEIVE SOME CRITICISM, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THREE DAYS, I IMAGINE. I DON'T THINK MOST PEOPLE LOOK AT OUR BUDGET AS HIS BUDGET AND OUR BUDGET. IT'S THE CITY'S BUDGET.

WE'RE GROUPED TOGETHER. BUT SHE'S RIGHT. BUT THE LIKE THE BUDGET THAT HAS PRESENTED TO US IS BUDGET. THE MAYOR'S BUDGET IS JUST A PROPOSAL. YEAH, YEAH. OURS IS WHAT ACTUALLY IS, IS WELL, WE CONFIRM WE CONFIRM IT. YOU'RE RIGHT. BUT WE WE CONFIRM IT. I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, CAITLIN. MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK OF IT. TECHNICALLY, IT IS TRUE. WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS TRUE.

AND TECHNICALLY, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE. IT'S JUST. PHILOSOPHY. BECAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU. I'M NOT WILLING TO RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR. I'M NOT WILLING TO DO A PROPERTY TAX RATE ADJUSTMENT TO PAY FOR THINGS THAT SHOULD BE PAID FOR WITH NEW GROWTH. YEAH, THAT'S KELVIN'S POINT ALL ALONG. THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S NOT WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DO WITHOUT SOMETHING. IT'S IT'S WHAT WHAT COSTS MORE THIS YEAR THAN IT DID LAST YEAR. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE NEED RECURRING REVENUE FOR. SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU DON'T EVER WANT TO ADD NEW POSITIONS EVER, JUST WITH NEW GROWTH? I DON'T WANT TO EVER WANT TO RAISE TAX RATES. THEY JUST SOUND IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS SAY, WE ONLY RAISE TAX RATES TO COVER INFLATION, AND WE NEVER WANT TO ADD ANY MORE PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT LOOKS BAD. WELL, HE'S SAYING HE ONLY WANTS TO ADD PEOPLE. YEAH THAT'S STILL IN THE BUDGET. THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL THERE IN THE BUDGET. IT'S THEIR I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE'RE TRYING TO WE'RE TRYING TO SOUND LIKE THE GOOD GUYS SAYING WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS FOR INFLATION. BUT THE REALITY IS THERE'S INFLATION AND NEW POSITIONS. AND IMAGINE THIS. IMAGINE THIS CITY DIDN'T GROW.

IF WE IF WE STAYED THE EXACT SAME POPULATION FOR 20 YEARS, WE WOULD GET ZERO NEW GROWTH MONEY, RIGHT? SO SO WE WOULD NEVER ADD ANY NEW POSITIONS. IS THAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH, IDEALLY THAT'S WHY WOULD WE EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE AS IT'S ALWAYS BEEN. YOU WOULDN'T NEED NEW. WE WOULDN'T WE WOULDN'T NEED TO ADD SERVICES. YEAH. WE COULD ADD SERVICES. BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE TO USE A FAMOUS LINE THAT GETS TOSSED AROUND. THAT MIGHT BE A WANT INSTEAD OF A NEED. BUT AS YOU GROW, YOU NEED MORE POLICE OFFICERS, YOU NEED MORE FIREFIGHTERS. BUT EVEN IF YOU SAY THE EXACT SAME SIZE, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE NEVER HAD HEADCOUNT ARE GOING TO COST MORE, AND THEIR INSURANCE IS GOING TO COST MORE, AND THEIR GAS IS GOING TO COST MORE OR NOT, OR WHATEVER. SO YEAH, IT IT IS SEPARATED OUT, BUT WE ARE STILL GROWING. SO WE DO NEED TO STILL ADD HEADCOUNT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE A SEPARATE ITEM FOR THAT ON THE, ON THE REVENUE THAT SAYS NEW GROWTH AND NOT. PROPERTY TAX REQUESTED INCREASES. I'M OKAY WITH THE BASICS OF THIS. I LIKE THE THREE THINGS. LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANT TO EVER LOOK LIKE WE'RE GAMBLING ON THE EMPLOYEES TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. THEY CAN STILL FIND EIGHT DAYS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE BUDGET. IF THEY'RE LOOKING UP. THIS MAY BE A THING WHERE IT IS A LITTLE SLOPPY THIS FIRST GO AROUND, BUT IF WE STICK BY THE PHILOSOPHY OF IT, THEN IT BECOMES THIS IS WHAT IT IS AS WE GO. THIS WAS THE INFLATIONARY THING THAT IS MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE I'VE OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE TALK TO ME ABOUT INCREASING TAXES, MY FIRST THING TO THEM IS ALWAYS IT JUST COSTS MORE. EVERYTHING COSTS

[00:45:05]

MAYBE TO CLEAN UP SOME OF THIS, WE COULD PROPOSE THAT I WORK WITH MARIE AND ON WE HAVE TO PROVIDE A LINK TO THE COUNTY THAT IS ON THE PROPERTY TAX STATEMENT THAT WILL SEND ANYONE THAT RECEIVES A STATEMENT TO A PAGE OF SOME SORT THAT EXPLAINS HAS THE PROPERTY TAX IMPACT SCHEDULE AND EXPLAINS WHAT WE ARE USING PROPERTY TAXES FOR. IT MIGHT BE GOOD BECAUSE OF THIS LITTLE BIT SLOPPINESS TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT SAYS, AND WE RECEIVED THIS MUCH AMOUNT OF NEW GROWTH IN THE CITY, AND THESE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE ADDING WITH THAT NEW GROWTH MONEY SO THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU'RE JUST SAYING, WELL, WE HEARD A COUPLE OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT THESE DAYS. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO WE'RE INCLUDING IT IN THE BUDGET AND NOT GIVING ANYONE A SAY ON IT OR OPINION ON IT, BUT THAT IT WOULD STILL BE DISCLOSED. BUT AS BEING PAID FOR WITH THE NEW GROWTH PROPERTY TAX, WE COULD WORK ON A MESSAGING SO THAT IT WOULD BE A LITTLE CLEANER AND NOT LOOK LIKE WE'RE NOT BEING AS TRANSPARENT AS WHAT WE WANT TO BE. AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT, BECAUSE I'M OKAY TO EVEN TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THESE DAYS BEING A NEW GROWTH NEED THAT JUST ARE WE'RE BECOMING SOMETHING THAT NEEDS THINGS OUT WEST AND NEEDS THIS. AND, AND WE WANT TO LOOK LIKE A CITY THAT IS LOOKING TO ITS OWN.

YEAH, I'VE GOT MY OWN ARGUMENTS THERE. SO I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT BECAUSE I JUST, BUT, BUT I LIKE, I LIKE KIND OF THAT AS A LITTLE WAY. IT GIVES US A REASON. GOING TO COUNCIL MEMBER JACOBS POINT, IT GIVES US A PHILOSOPHY THAT WE CAN SAY NEW GROWTH IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE NEW GROWTH. SO COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB. YES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE NEW POSITIONS WHEN WE WHEN THEY COME IN NEED, WHETHER WE STAY, WE COULD BE THE SAME, YOU KNOW, THE SAME SIZE FOR TEN YEARS. BUT IF SOME NEW TECHNOLOGY COMES UP AND THIS CITY NEEDS THIS, WHETHER WE'VE GROWN OR NOT, THEN THAT BECOMES SOMETHING THE CITY NEEDS. IT'S IT'S NOW MORE OF A NEED THAN A WANT. AND THAT'LL BE A POSITION THAT GETS ADDED REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE CITY GREW. AND THE TAX WILL HAVE TO INCREASE. BECAUSE OF THAT, OUR CITY NEEDED THIS. SO THE CITY NEEDS NEW POSITIONS THAT WILL ALWAYS BE A PART OF GROWTH. AND GROWTH CAN BE BECAUSE OUR CITY GREW OR BECAUSE OF NEEDS GREW FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAS BEEN THE NEED IN THE CITY BEFORE. SO I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THAT WE CAN GO WITH, BUT IT JUST HAS TO BE. AGAIN, AS I SAID, IT'LL BE A LITTLE SLOPPY AT THIS TIME. AND, AND COULD, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKE US RELY A LOT MORE ON THE, THE ONE SKILL THAT GOT US ELECTED TO BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS AND YOU'RE NOT WRONG. MAYBE A LITTLE SLOPPY THIS YEAR IS KIND OF TO BE EXPECTED BECAUSE, WELL, IT'S THIS IDEA. IT OCCURRED TO, TO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY UNTIL WE HAVE THE BUDGET IN OUR HANDS FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS. AND I STARTED THINKING, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ON OUR PROPERTY TAX IMPACT STATEMENT AREN'T REALLY INFLATIONARY THINGS. SO I JUST STARTED THINKING ABOUT IT A LITTLE WEIRD. TALK TO DENISE. AND AND THEN I KIND OF FIGURED OUT WHY IT FELT WEIRD. AND IT TOOK A MINUTE BECAUSE THIS LEGISLATIVE PROCESS IS DIFFERENT THANKS TO NEW STATE LAW. SO IT IS A.

LITTLE BIT OF TIME. BUT WE GET IT. WE GET KIND OF THE GROUNDWORK LAID THIS TIME AND IT'LL BE LESS SLOPPY NEXT YEAR. WHAT WHAT EXACTLY IS SLOP? I'M NOT QUITE SAYING WHAT'S SLOPPY ACTUALLY LIKE IF WHAT WOULD WE HAVE DONE TO MAKE COUNCILMEMBER WHITELOCK SAYING THAT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY SEEN A BUDGET AND SEEN. THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE INCREASING. AND NOW WE'RE COMING OUT AND SAYING, NO, WE'RE NOT INCREASING FOR THIS. YEAH, WE'RE NOT INCREASING FOR THIS. WE'RE INCREASING BECAUSE OF THIS. AND THEY GO BACK AND THEY'LL THINK, THEN YOU HIT IT IN THIS. BUT I LIKE TO SAY IS THAT WE CAN BE FORTHRIGHT IN THINGS AND SAY, THESE ARE HERE, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE GROWTH NEEDS. AND WE RECEIVED MORE MONEY BECAUSE OF NEW GROWTH THAN WE THOUGHT. THIS IS WHERE WE'RE LOOKING TO PUT THAT MONEY, AND THAT CAN STILL BE THERE. THAT'LL, I THINK, CLEAN UP A LITTLE BIT OF THE SLOPPINESS. I DO ALSO THINK THAT. AND NOT TO DISPARAGE THE CITY, BUT THERE AREN'T 140,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING THROUGH THE BUDGET AND QUESTIONING EVERY LITTLE THING WE DO. REALLY. YOU KNOW, AND SO IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE. THEY'LL BE VOCAL AND, AND THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST. BUT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IN THIS ROOM IS DECIDE ON SOMETHING AND IT'S NOT EVER ON

[00:50:08]

THAT'S PRETTY, YOU KNOW, PRETTY GOOD. AND SO JUST SOME THOUGHTS ON THAT. OH, GOOD. YOUR LAPTOP IS. OKAY. YES. SO WITH THAT. AND WHAT, WHAT DENISE WILL NEED IS TO THE LAPTOP FAIRY JUST DROPPED BY LAPTOPS. DO WE WANT TO DISCUSS FURTHER HOW WE WANT TO PORTRAY THAT? FIRST OF ALL, DO WE WANT TO GO WITH THIS SORT OF THING THAT WE'RE SAYING THE INCREASE IS MORE INFLATIONARY AND NOT GROWTH BASED, BECAUSE GROWTH IS IN THE BUDGET THAT WE THINK IS WHAT THE CITY NEEDS.

BUT WE'RE INCREASING BECAUSE THINGS COST MORE. WE LIKE THAT AS A PHILOSOPHY, AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT IS THE THINGS THAT GO INTO THE INFLATIONARY PART. YEAH. DO WE HAVE FOUR THAT ARE OKAY WITH GOING INFLATIONARY OVER GROWTH. AND DO YOU THINK. OH, I SEE IT.

OKAY. WE HAD I THINK EVERYONE DID. RIGHT. I JUST I'M FINE WITH THE WAY IT IS. COOL. ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAD THEN SIX OKAY. NOW I THINK BUT YOU WILL KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. NO. NOW I THINK WE NEED TO DISCUSS HOW WE WANT TO DO THAT. I IT SEEMED LIKE PEOPLE WERE A LITTLE MORE IN FAVOR OF THE THREE WAY, THREE WAY KIND OF SPLIT IN THINGS. THREE WAY, MEANING WE'LL SPLIT IT BETWEEN. IT INCREASES HEALTH PREMIUM INCREASES AND FUEL. BUT WE'LL LEAVE THE COLA AS IT IS WITH EMPLOYEES GETTING THEIR CHILDREN AS. YES. I'D LIKE TO SEE WHEN THE MAYOR'S BUDGET NEXT YEAR. I'M NOT OKAY WITH HEALTH PREMIUMS. OKAY. WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN? MAYBE I NEED IT. WE HAD BECAUSE WE'RE SELF-INSURED, SO WE PUT A BIT OF RESERVES IN THAT HEALTH PREMIUM AREA. YEAH, BUT IF THE TAX INCREASE COULD PASS. YEAH, WE'D HAVE THE ONE WE HAD. AND WE HAD HUGE, HUGE EXPENSES FOR MEDICAL. THIS NEXT YEAR WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT OUT OF OUR RESERVES AND PUT IT IN THERE. AND THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF RESERVES OR WHATEVER IN THERE.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'M OKAY WITH IT. I'M OKAY WITH FUEL. OKAY. SO SPLIT. I'M HELPFUL. FUEL IS COMING DOWN. YES, IT HAS BEEN. UNTIL THE NEXT WAR. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT WHAT ABOUT. YEAH. NO COUNCIL MEMBER. SHELTON, ANY THOUGHTS YOU HAVE ON THAT PROPOSAL? ANOTHER. PERSPECTIVE.

AND I'M FINE WITH IT TOO. YEAH, I AM TOO. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE COLA ADDED TO IT NEXT YEAR.

IF THE MAYOR CAN ADJUST THE MESSAGING SO THE EMPLOYEES DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY'RE BEING.

TRICKED. SO IF IT COMES THAT WAY, THEN THE MAYOR'S NOT A BAD GUY. WE'RE THE BAD GUY. WE ALL SAY NO, HERE. HERE'S THE PROBLEM I HAVE. IT'S NOT THAT THE MAYOR AND OURS ARE DIFFERENT, BUT WE'VE BEEN WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS SINCE WE GOT THE MAYOR'S BUDGET. AND UNTIL TODAY, WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT. IF WE HAD HAD THIS DISCUSSION THE VERY FIRST TIME WE GOT THE BUDGET, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT FOR ME. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. BUT WE HAVEN'T. WE'VE BEEN SAYING, OKAY, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH THIS TAX INCREASE. YEAH, I AGREE. SO IF WE HAD SAID, NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THOSE THINGS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'RE GOING TO DO THESE. GREAT. SO IN MY MIND, IT JUST IT'S DIFFERENT. THAT'S THE I AGREE. YEAH. AND THAT IS THE SLOPPY PART THAT CONNECTED THE.

[00:55:09]

OKAY. THANK YOU THEN DO I HAVE FOUR WHO ARE OKAY TO PUT THIS TAX INCREASE HALF AND HALF INTO IT AND GUESS. YEAH. WITH THE CORRECT MESSAGING WITH THE CORRECT MESSAGING IS DISCUSSED ABOUT WHERE THE GROWTH COMES THROUGH. I WOULDN'T MIND A FULL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WRITE UP FROM THAT SAYING THIS IS THERE ARE TWO THINGS. THAT WAY IT STILL GOES INTO A COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB SAYING, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT THAT BUILD IT UP AND IT'LL ALWAYS BE TWO THINGS THAT BUILD IT UP. UNLESS WE GO TEN YEARS WITHOUT ADDING A SINGLE RESIDENT TO THE CITY OR LOSING A SINGLE. AND I WOULD WANT TO REQUEST THAT WE HAVE NOT ONLY THE LINK THAT THEN SHOWS THE PAGE THAT INDICATES THAT I WOULD REQUEST THAT OUR PUBLIC INFORMATION GROUP GET THAT MESSAGE OUT AS WELL IN OUR SOCIAL MEDIA AND WHATEVER OTHER OUR OUR MONTHLY EMAIL, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE THAT WE EXPLAIN WHAT WE'RE DOING. WHAT WAS THAT COUNCIL MEMBER. JACOB. USER FRIENDLY, USER FRIENDLY. SO WE MAY NEED MORE MONEY TO THEM. THAT'S THE IT THING WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. THEIR FULL TIME EMPLOYEES, RIGHT? THEY'RE HERE EITHER WAY SO THEY CAN SHIFT SOMETHING AND MESSAGE THIS FOR US. THAT'S WHAT MY REQUEST. DOES THAT HELP YOU? IT DOES.

THANK YOU. WE'RE GOING TO, WHEN WE BRING THIS ITEM UP THIS EVENING, THAT WILL BE AN AMENDMENT THAT WE ARE PREPARING. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU MIGHT WANT TO EXCUSE HERSELF WHILE SHE PREPARE. GO FOR IT. SHE'S PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN WORKING ON IT AND HAD TO CHANGE IT EVERY TIME WE GO. NOPE. CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? OF COURSE. COULD YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEW GROWTH THAT WASN'T EXPECTED? THE REVENUE WASN'T EXPECTED. THAT AND THE CHANGE OF OF TAX RATE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED. COULD YOU JUST GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF A RUNDOWN ON THAT? SO THE CHANGE OF LIKE THE ONE THAT I SAID DECREASED THE SALES TAX, THAT CHANGE, CHANGE OF TAX RATE 2.26 TO 2.19. WHY DID WE GET MORE MORE NEW GROWTH MONEY? WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? THE 221,000. YEAH I EVALUATION FROM THE COUNTY. RIGHT RIGHT. AND I WILL GET A NEW WE GET A DOWNLOAD IN ABOUT 2 OR 3 MONTHS INTO OUR GIS SYSTEM. AND THEN I CAN GO, OH, THERE'S WHERE THE NEW GROWTH IS. BUT UNTIL THAT POINT, THEY DON'T DISCLOSE TO ME WHERE IT'S COMING FROM. SOME OF IT'S PROBABLY FROM NOVA, I IMAGINE. AND FROM THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT THE POWER PLANT'S BEEN INCLUDED YET OR THE VALUE OF THAT, BUT THAT WILL BE BENEFICIAL. POSSIBLY THE ANNEXATION, THE ANNEXATION, THE ANNEXATION IS A SMALL PIECE OF IT. YEAH. SO THAT'S A 221 000.

YOU SAID YES. OKAY. AND SO WE'RE CONSIDERING A LOWER TAX RATE NOW THAN WE WERE BEFORE.

YES. BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE 221,000. TO BE CANDID, THE 221,000 COULD REDUCE THE TAX INCREASE IN THE FUTURE. IT CAN'T RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE'VE KIND OF LOCKED IN. YESTERDAY WE WERE FORCED TO PUT A NUMBER IN YESTERDAY. BUT BEFORE WE IN AUGUST WE COULD. ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH. YOU COULD READ THAT NEW GROWTH MONEY BACK INTO THE GENERAL FUND AND REDUCE YOUR TAX INCREASE BY HALF THE THE AMOUNT THAT SHE DIDN'T PUT INTO OUR EXISTING BUDGET. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. SO I GUESS IN AUGUST, I WOULD JUST SUGGEST TO THE ROOM WE NOT DIVERT THAT FOR A TAX DECREASE. WE USE IT FOR OUR ROADS. ROADS. SO. WELL, THAT KIND OF GOES ALONG WITH OUR PHILOSOPHY OF SAYING THE TAX INCREASE IS NOT SIMPLY THE COST OF THINGS. AND THIS MONEY STAYS WHERE IT IS SO THAT WE CAN HELP WITH THE GROWTH, WHICH IS OUR CITY BEING USED SO MUCH.

THE ROADS ARE IN NEED OF REPAIR. SO I'M I'M GOOD WITH WHAT COUNCILMEMBER SHELTON. SO I DON'T EXPECT EVERYONE WILL HAVE. WE WILL HAVE AN AMENDMENT THIS EVENING TO. THE TENTATIVE BUDGET PROPOSED TO YOU WITH THAT CHANGE. SO THIS DISCUSSION IS IMPORTANT AS YOU CONSIDER THE ADOPTION OF THE INTERIM TONIGHT, THAT WE WILL RECEIVE THE ADDITIONAL 2220 $1,000 OR

[01:00:06]

SORRY, WE NEED TO SWITCH. THANK YOU ALREADY. SO GREG'S GOING TO JOIN ME UP HERE BECAUSE HE'S THE SEWER AND WATER GUY. DON'T TALK. LOOK AT YOU GUYS. THAT'S AWESOME. ALL RIGHT, I THINK ONE MORE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT WATER FIRST. AND BECKY ALWAYS PUT THE WATER UP IN THE CORNER AND WE SWITCH OUT TO SEWER. SHE PUT A SEWER UP IN THE CORNER OR A MANHOLE SEWER.

SO? SO WE CAN KEEP YOU ON TASK WHICH ONE YOU'RE LOOKING AT. RIGHT. SO THERE'S NARRATIVE ON HERE. THERE'S LOTS OF NUMBERS ON HERE, BUT HOPEFULLY WE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH UNDERSTANDING THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID A COMPREHENSIVE, VERY COMPREHENSIVE WATER STUDY WAS 2019, WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO FIX THE RATES. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE COUNCIL CHALLENGED US TO DO WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RATES THAT WERE APPLIED TO A SPECIFIC USER GROUP PAID FOR THE AMOUNT OF SERVICES PROVIDED TO THAT SPECIFIC USER GROUP. AND I THINK WE ACCOMPLISHED THAT PRETTY WELL. WE DID AN UPDATE OR A REVIEW OF THOSE RATES IN 2023, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY JUNE OF 2022 AND JUNE OF 2023, AND WE HAD NOT DONE IT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. COUNCIL MEMBER WHITELOCK CHALLENGED US TO DO THAT AGAIN TO CHECK THOSE RATES.

SO THIS IS AN UPDATE AGAIN TO CHECK THE RATES AND WHETHER THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE COUNCIL WAS SUCCESSFUL OR IS STILL SUCCESSFUL WITH THE CURRENT RATE STRUCTURE. SO EXCUSE ME, THE NUMBER OF ACCOUNTS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT WE SERVICE. SO YOU'LL SEE THAT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. BUT THE NUMBER OF WATER ACCOUNTS IS CONNECTIONS.

WE HAVE 26,848 AS OF TWO NIGHTS AGO, 90% OF THOSE ARE RESIDENTIAL, 5% ARE COMMERCIAL.

AND THE REASON THAT THEY'RE SO LOW ON THE COMMERCIAL AND WITH I'M SORRY, I'M ON SEWER, NEVER MIND. RESIDENTIAL IS RESIDENTIAL. IT'S ALL RESIDENTIAL, MULTIFAMILY AND SINGLE FAMILY WATER SOLD IN THOUSANDS. WOW. WHY DID I HAVE A DOLLAR SIGN THERE? I AM SO SORRY. THERE SHOULD NOT BE DOLLAR SIGN THERE. THIS IS GALLONS. THERE ISN'T A DOLLAR SIGN ON OUR DOLLAR SIGN RIGHT THERE. THAT'S NOT A DOLLAR SIGN. THAT'S A THAT'S NOTHING THERE.

IT'S NOT ON THE HANDOUTS THOUGH. YEAH. OH GOOD. EVEN BETTER. SO THE GALLONS SOLD WERE 3.9 BILLION GALLONS. RIGHT. YOU'VE GOT TO PUT ANOTHER THREE ZEROS ON THAT BECAUSE THAT'S IN THOUSANDS. BUT THAT'S THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT WE'VE SOLD. SO TOTAL 7.1 BILLION GALLONS WERE SOLD THROUGHOUT THE CITY. OUR CONTRACT WITH JORDAN VALLEY WATER IS TO TAKE OR PAY OF 6 BILLION GALLONS. OKAY. SO THAT LETS YOU KNOW WE'RE USING MORE THAN WHAT OUR TAKE OR PAY CONTRACT IS BY ABOUT A BILLION GALLONS. 56% RESIDENTIAL. YOU'LL SEE THAT THE ANNUAL REVENUE FROM RESIDENTIAL RATES WAS 58% OR $19 MILLION. SO REALLY CLOSE, RIGHT? COMMERCIAL IS PROVIDING A LITTLE MORE OF THE PERCENTAGE OF WATER SOLD AND A LITTLE LESS OF THE

[01:05:05]

THIS IS THE WATER UTILITY FINANCIAL PLAN. AND SO IN ESSENCE, THIS IS KIND OF WHERE WE COME UP WITH THE STRUCTURE OVERALL. SO WATER PURCHASES, THAT'S JORDAN VALLEY WATER.

DOES THAT MEAN THAT'S THE WHOLE COST OF THE WATER SOLD? BECAUSE SOME OF THE COST COMES FROM WELLS THAT ARE OUR OWN PRODUCTION. AND THAT COSTS US A LITTLE MORE UNDER THE MAINTENANCE LEVEL. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE PURCHASED FROM JORDAN VALLEY, ABOUT $13 MILLION A YEAR IN WATER, AND WE BRING IN $13 MILLION A YEAR ON OUR CONSUMPTION CHARGES, OUR USAGE CHARGES THAT PAY FOR THAT WATER OPERATIONS OVERALL. THAT'S PERSONNEL. THAT'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN THERE ARE AT $9 MILLION AND MAINTENANCE, WHICH WOULD BE INFRASTRUCTURE. WE BRING IN ABOUT $9.5 MILLION. AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE SPENDING ABOUT $6.5 MILLION. BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT WILL RAMP UP AS OUR SYSTEM AGES. AND AS WE ADDRESS THE LEAD AND COPPER PIPE ISSUES. OKAY, SO THE MAYOR'S BUDGET PROPOSED NO RATE INCREASE DUE TO THE LEVEL OF RESERVES IN THE UTILITY FUND. AND THE FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN PRESUMES RATES REMAIN CONSTANT, BUT THAT WILL BE REEVALUATED EVERY YEAR. SO THIS IS KIND OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW. WHILE RESERVES ARE STRONG IN THE WATER UTILITY. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THE BLUE BAR GRAPH THAT'S THE WATER UTILITY RESERVES. THEY'RE VERY, VERY STRONG. WE'RE ALMOST AT $60 MILLION IN RESERVES IN THE WATER UTILITY. THAT GIVES GREG A LOT OF LEEWAY TO DO THE PROJECTS THAT HE'S NEEDING TO DO TO, TO MAINTAIN THE SYSTEM. HOWEVER, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW GROWTH PROJECTS AND NOT RECEIVED QUITE ALL OF THE IMPACT FEES TO SUPPORT THAT NEW GROWTH YET BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE GROWTH THAT NEEDS TO STILL HAPPEN, AND YOU HAVE TO PUT WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN BEFORE THE NEW GROWTH EVEN HAPPENS. SO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT. AND SOMETIMES IT'S A TEN YEAR PAYOFF, RIGHT? AND EVEN 20. SO RIGHT NOW THERE THE ORANGE LINES ARE THE IMPACT FEE, THE WATER IMPACT FEE. AND THEY ARE ALL IN THE NEGATIVE.

SO CURRENTLY WE BELIEVE WE'RE ABOUT $10 MILLION IN THE NEGATIVE AT THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR. AND WE'RE GOING TO PULL IT FURTHER DOWN IN THE NEGATIVE AS WE FINISH OUT ROCKWOOD PARK POND FOR SOME OF THE WATER THERE, WE'RE GOING TO START INVESTING IN THE ZONE FIVE NORTH SYSTEM TO ALLOW THE GROWTH TO OCCUR IN THAT TERRAIN AREA, AND THEN START INVESTING IN THE ZONE FIVE SOUTH, SECOND RESERVE TANK AND SYSTEM THAT IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT THAT AREA AS WELL. WE DON'T HAVE NOT BUDGETED IMPACT FEES TO BE ABOVE WHAT OUR AVERAGE HAS BEEN FOR COLLECTION, BUT IT COULD HAPPEN IF YOU OPEN UP AN AREA AND THERE SEEMS TO BE EXTREME GROWTH, OR THERE'S A LARGE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT BRINGS IN BIGGER IMPACT FEES THAN WE HAD ANTICIPATED. SO THESE ARE ESTIMATES ON WHERE THEY ARE. BUT THE GREEN LINE IS WHAT THAT MEANS, RIGHT? THE UTILITY FUND IS HAVING TO SUBSIDIZE THE IMPACT FEE FUND BECAUSE IT CAN'T HOLD ITSELF UP. SO RIGHT NOW THIS IS WHERE OUR FUND BALANCE IS. IT WILL DRAW DOWN TO JUST BELOW $10 MILLION, WHICH IS NOT THE BEST PLACE FOR US TO BE WITH RESERVES AS A WHOLE. BUT OUR WATER RESERVES ARE STILL REALLY STRONG AND I WOULDN'T FEEL GOOD ABOUT AND THE MAYOR WOULDN'T FEEL GOOD ABOUT RECOMMENDING AN INCREASE TO THE UTILITY RATES BASED ON THE DEVELOPMENT NEEDS. SO THAT'S WHY THAT WAS THAT WAS PROPOSED IN THE MAYOR'S BUDGET. SO THE GREEN LINE IS THE COMBINATION OF BLUE AND YELLOW AND BLUE AND ORANGE. OKAY. OKAY. IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING, IT'S RESERVES WILL GO DOWN TO 10 MILLION. IT'S BASICALLY IT'S THE BALANCE LINE BETWEEN THE TWO. YES. YEAH. OKAY. OF COURSE, WITH THE IMPACT FEES, IS THAT, I GUESS, A PREDICTION OF WHAT WE WILL SEE OVER THE NEXT WORDS?

[01:10:02]

I MEAN, WE'VE ALL ACCEPTED THAT AT THIS POINT, BUT WE'RE GOING TO GO AS FAR AS WE CAN. AND THEN ONCE WE DON'T HAVE ANY NEW GROWTH, THEN WE'RE GOING TO JUST GO, ALL RIGHT, WE'VE GOT TO JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT WE'RE UPSIDE DOWN. THAT CREEK IS NEVER GOING TO REPAY US.

RIGHT? YEAH, RIGHT. GREG. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. COVER THE ENTIRE COST. THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS. AND SO WE DID A RATE STUDY AGAINST ALL OF OUR CLOSE WATER SYSTEMS AND SAID, ALL RIGHT, LET'S SAY WHAT IF HOUSEHOLD USE IS 5000 GALLONS? WHAT IS OUR WHAT WOULD OUR BILL BE? AND IF THEY USE 15,000 GALLONS, WHAT WOULD THEIR BILL BE? NOW KID HAS A PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT ON THEM. SO THEY HAVE A PROPERTY TAX. IF YOU'RE LIVE IN KID AND YOU GET WATER FROM KID, THEN YOU HAVE A PROPERTY TAX ON YOUR PROPERTY TAX STATEMENT AS WELL. SO WE ASSUMED THAT IN IN OUR CALCULATION FOR KID. SO IF YOU LOOKED UP KIDS RATE SCHEDULE, IT WOULD NOT LOOK LIKE THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T PUT PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT IN IT. RIGHT. SO I DID SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE APPLES TO APPLES. SO YOU CAN SEE WEST JORDAN WITH OUR BASIC WATER USE IS THE LOWEST OF ANY OF OUR OTHER USERS, WHICH WAS REALLY YOUR INTENT WHEN WE HAD DISCUSSIONS BACK IN 2020, YOU SAID, I WANT INDOOR USE TO BE AFFORDABLE NO MATTER WHAT, RIGHT? I WANT THOSE PEOPLE THAT CAN SERVE AND NEED INDOOR WATER. THIS IS AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE. I WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S AFFORDABLE. YOU'VE DONE THAT AND YOU'VE MAINTAINED THAT OVER TIME, 15000 GALLONS IS A LOT MORE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHEN YOU STARTED WATERING OUTSIDE. I DON'T KNOW ANY HOUSEHOLD THAT'S USING 15,000 GALLONS INTERIOR, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE MAKE AN IMPACT, RIGHT? THAT'S WHERE WE SAY WE'RE REALLY ENCOURAGING WATER CONSERVATION WITH OUR RATE, WITH OUR TIERED RATES VERSUS NOT ENCOURAGING THAT, I GUESS. SO YOU CAN SEE SANDY CITY IS MUCH LOWER THAN WE ARE, BUT BY ABOUT 15%. HARRIMAN'S LOWER IN SOUTH JORDAN IS LOWER.

BUT WE'RE RIGHT WHERE KID IS, WHICH IS OUR CLOSEST WATER SYSTEM. AND ALSO ONE THAT'S SHARED WITH WEST JORDAN RESIDENTS. IS THIS REFLECTIVE OF OUR TIERS IN ACTUALITY? YES.

YEP. IT'S REFLECTIVE OF EVERY DISTRICT'S EVERY WATER TIER IN EACH OF THOSE AREAS. OKAY, SO IT LOOKS LIKE SANDY ACTUALLY DISCOUNTS WATER THE MORE YOU USE IT. WELL, WE ARE TO THANK YOU. YEAH, BUT I'M JUST SAYING A LOT MORE THAN WE ARE. YEAH, I'LL SHOW YOU. THEY'RE ACTUALLY THERE ARE TEARS ARE INCLUDE. DID I INCLUDE IT? YEAH, I THINK I INCLUDED IT IN THE STUDY. SO YOU CAN KIND OF LOOK AND SEE WHAT THEIR TEARS ARE LIKE. YOU CAN LOOK AT THE TWO DIFFERENT ONES. OUR TOP TEN WATER USERS OR UTILITY PAYERS, THE ONES THAT CONTRIBUTE MOST TO THE WATER FUND. DANON IS OUR HIGHEST WATER USER. THEY'RE ALSO OUR HIGHEST SEWER USER.

JORDAN VALLEY HOSPITAL. WE PROBABLY AND I SHOULDN'T CALL THAT NAME I DID IN THE SEWER AND I DIDN'T DO IT NOW. YEAH, SORRY ABOUT THAT. ALIGNED ENERGY IS OUR THIRD AUSSIE INDUSTRIES. THAT'S A MEAT PACKING PLANT. COPPER HILLS HIGH SCHOOL, SUNSET RIDGE APARTMENTS, BROOKSIDE MOBILE HOME COMMUNITY, THE BROOKSIDE ON 40TH. THANK YOU. IS THAT OKAY? JORDAN LANDING? I KNOW, I KIND OF WONDERED WHY THERE WAS SO MUCH WATER USE IN BROOKSIDE.

DO THEY HAVE GREEN SPACE? I DON'T KNOW, I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE. I THINK THEY'RE A PARK

[01:15:03]

THEY'RE PROBABLY NUMBER ONE. AND NO, THEY'RE BIG. BUT THAT'S WHERE THAT'S WHERE WE CAN CONSERVE WATER TO. THOSE ARE THE BIG USERS THAT THAT COULD LOOK AT WAYS TO LOWER THEIR WATER CHANGING BY PUTTING IN ARTIFICIAL TURF. ARTIFICIAL. YEAH, A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

THEY COULD BE DIFFERENT LANDSCAPING IDEAS BESIDES JUST GRASS. AND WHAT ARE THEY USING SO MUCH WATER ON? THEY HAVE A LOT OF GRASS THAT'S NOT REALLY USED. WELL. THEY IT'S. AND EVEN JUST LIKE FIELDS, I WOULDN'T SAY DON'T WATER OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. BUT THERE'S PLACES BETWEEN FIELDS THAT WHERE PEOPLE MAY JUST WALK OR THERE'S ALL KINDS OF LITTLE PLACES THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT WATER TO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY TEN, 15, 20% FIELDS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE ONLY WATER A FEW MONTHS OF THE YEAR. SO THERE'S OTHER WATER THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN A BIG BUILDING. YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO RESTRICT THOSE BATHROOM PASSES. BATHROOM PASSES FOR YOU.

THERE'S TWO COMPONENTS TO A WATER BILL, THE FLAT FEE OR BASE CHARGE, WHICH WE USE TO PAY FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF THE WATER SYSTEM. SO WHEN I SHOWED YOU THE BUDGET BEFORE, THAT IS THE PORTION OF THE BILL THAT PAYS FOR THAT. SO IT'S ABOUT $9.5 MILLION, AND BASE CHARGE COMES IN A YEAR. AND THEN THE METERED WATER USAGE CHARGE PAYS FOR THE PURCHASE OF WATER FROM JORDAN VALLEY AND THE CITY'S UTILITY OPERATIONAL COSTS FOR THE CITY. JORDAN VALLEY, JUST A LITTLE BIT. IT'S OUR PRIMARY WATER PROVIDER. WE DO PROVIDE SOME OF OUR OWN WATER. IT'S A TAKE OR PAY PROVISION, WHICH WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. WE PURCHASED THE REQUIRED WATER FIRST BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING, AND THEN WE USE OUR OWN WATER AFTER THAT AT OUR DISCRETION. SO DEPENDING ON WHAT OUR WATER GUYS DECIDE, THE CONTRACT REQUIRES WE PURCHASE 18,500 ACRE FEET. ALTHOUGH WE ALREADY HAVE, WE HAVE A CONTRACT IN FOR THEIR REVIEW AND APPROVAL, AND WE'RE STILL IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM BECAUSE WE'RE USING SO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT OUR TAKE OR PAY IS RIGHT NOW. AND WE HAVE FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS. OUR MONEY, IF WE RENEW THAT CONTRACT WITH THE HIGHER TAKER PAY. NO, I MEAN, IT ALLOWS US TO TAKE MORE WATER AT THE BILL. RATE IS GOING TO BE THE SAME NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE TAKE. THEY DON'T GIVE US A BREAK. YEAH, BUT WHAT IT ALLOWS ME TO DO IS AT 120, OUR 120% OF OUR CONTRACT, OUR COSTS ARE REALLY GOING UP. SO YEAH, SO THAT COULD SAVE US MONEY THAT WAY. BECAUSE IF WE GO OVER OUR 120, WE'LL BE WE PAY A LOT MORE, RIGHT? YEAH, WE'LL PAY A LOT MORE. BUT I'M REALLY, WE'RE REALLY CAREFUL WITH THE WELLS. I MEAN, THAT'S HOW WE MANAGE WHAT WE HAVE AND TRY AND KEEP YOU UNDER. THERE WILL BE A POINT WHERE I CAN'T KEEP DOING THAT. THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO RENEGOTIATE OUR CONTRACT. AND I'VE TALKED WITH THEM. THEY REALLY WANT US TO BE AROUND 105. THAT'S WHERE THEY'D REALLY LIKE TO BE. THAT WAY. IF WE HAVE A YEAR WHERE PEOPLE REALLY CONSERVE, WE CAN STILL GET OUR TAKE OR PAY TO MAKE UP MONEY, OR WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF ROOM TO 120. SO THEY'D REALLY LIKE US TO 105. THEY'VE BEEN CAUTIOUS BECAUSE THEY'RE CHANGING ALL CONTRACTS. THIS YEAR, STARTING JULY 1ST, ALL CONTRACTS. SO I DON'T WANT TO SAY EXACTLY WHY THEY'VE BEEN HOLDING ME OFF FOR NINE MONTHS, BUT IT COULD BE BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO FORMULATE CONTRACTS GOING INTO FUTURE. ARE YOU HAVING ANY TROUBLE USING TOO MUCH WATER OUT OF WELLS? ARE YOU GETTING TOO CLOSE TO THAT? NO. WHAT? I'D BE CAREFUL WHAT I WANT TO RELEASE HERE OR NOT RELEASE HERE. RIGHT. WE ARE. WE KNOW HOW HISTORICALLY, HOW MUCH WE CAN TAKE WITHOUT ALTERING THE GROUNDWATER LEVELS. WE DO THAT BY LOOKING AT THE DRAWDOWNS IN WELLS, HOW MUCH THEY FALL. WE TAKE A PEEK OUT AND I'M REALLY CAREFUL TO STAY BETWEEN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 50 AND 100% WHAT WE TAKE AND NOT AFFECT GROUNDWATER LEVELS. IN CASE OF A HUGE DROUGHT, I WOULD TAKE MORE THAN WHAT IS MAYBE SAFE, JUST SO THAT I CAN

[01:20:04]

OKAY. THIS IS, I GUESS, THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT PAGE FOR THIS. IS THAT THAT INFORMATION? BUT THIS IS A CHART BY MONTH FOR THOSE CALENDAR YEARS. SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHERE WE'RE TRENDING ABOVE OR BELOW. BUT THE SOLID BLUE LINE IS WHERE WE ARE NOW.

WE'VE BEEN, WE'VE BEEN RIGHT AT WHAT WE THOUGHT, BUT THEN WE WERE A LITTLE ABOVE HERE IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH AND THEN FELL A LITTLE BIT BELOW HERE IN APRIL AND MAY. I DON'T HAVE THE JUNE BILL YET, SO I COULDN'T REALLY TELL YOU WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, BUT I LOVE HOW WELL WE'RE DOING IN JULY. YEAH, RIGHT. WE ARE KILLING IT ON WATER CONSERVATION. AND I GAVE INFORMATION TO ALAN TODAY THAT HE MIGHT HAND OUT TO YOU GUYS. THAT CAN ALSO ILLUSTRATE HOW WELL YOU'RE DOING WITH JORDAN VALLEY WATER. ALL RIGHT, SO RESIDENTIAL FEES, THIS IS JUST THIS IS THE FEE STRUCTURE AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW. THE AVERAGE MONTHLY BILL, THE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT PAY LESS THAN $50 A MONTH ALL YEAR. RIGHT. I JUST TOOK THEIR WHOLE YEAR BECAUSE I ANALYZED 12 MONTHS. I DIVIDED IT BY 12. SO $50 AVERAGE BILL PER MONTH. THAT'S ABOUT 32% OF OUR USERS, WHICH WAS INTERESTING TO ME. THAT ACTUALLY SEEMED HIGH, BUT IT'S I GUESS NOT 50 TO $100 A MONTH FOR WATER IS ABOUT 55% OF OUR USERS, AND THEN 100 TO $200 A MONTH, 12% OF OUR USERS AND LESS THAN 1% OF OUR USERS PAY MORE THAN $200 A MONTH. NOW, THIS IS RESIDENTIAL ONLY. THIS IS NOT COMMERCIAL. THE LOWEST BILL, IT WAS 2164 A MONTH, WHICH IS JUST THE BASE RATE. THEY WERE BARELY USING LESS THAN 1000 GALLONS A MONTH. AND SO THEY ONLY HAD TO PAY THE BASE RATE. FLUSH THE TOILET ONLY ONCE A DAY. I DON'T KNOW.

AVERAGE BILL, THOUGH FOR ALL USERS WAS $66.88 PER MONTH, AND THE HIGHEST BILL FOR A RESIDENCE WAS AN AVERAGE OF $765 A MONTH. A SINGLE USER. IS THAT AN APARTMENT? THAT'S A SINGLE USER. OH, YEAH. WOW. AND AND THEY DON'T HAVE LEAKS. YEAH. THAT I CANNOT CONFIRM OR DENY.

I HAVE NO IDEA. LIKE, YEAH, BUT SOMETIMES THE WATER DEPARTMENT OR YOU CONTACT THEM, WE ALWAYS CONTACT THEM WHEN THEY'RE I USE WE'VE CONTACTED THIS AND THEY, THEY'RE GOOD. THEY JUST DON'T CARE. NO. NO WORRIES. YEAH. I MEAN, I KNOW WE ARE ALL VERY CURIOUS AS TO WHERE THIS PERSON IS. I HAVE THE WORKSHEET. I JUST WANT TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS. ALRIGHT. COMMERCIAL FEES. YEAH.

RIGHT NOW RESIDENTIAL, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE IS JUST A SINGLE METER BASE RATE OF 2164. IT DOESN'T FLUCTUATE IN COMMERCIAL AND IN LANDSCAPE. THE BASE RATE OR THE METER FEE IS BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE METER. AND IT GOES UP LIKE THIS IS A DOWN METER. THEY PAY $3,000 A MONTH JUST TO HAVE A METER HOOKED UP TO OUR SYSTEM, NO WATER, AND THEN OUR TEARS FOR OUR COMMERCIAL RATES ARE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. LOWEST BILL WAS 2164, WHICH WAS JUST A METER AND NO USE FOR A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY HIGHEST BILL, WHICH WAS DAN, IS $14,300 A MONTH, IS IT A LOT OF YOGURT? I I'M REMEMBERING THAT THE. LANDSCAPING RATES ARE LOW, LOWER. COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHY THAT IS? SO LET'S GO TO THE NEXT. WELL, IT WAS REMEMBER THE COUNCIL'S CHALLENGE WHEN WE DID THE RATES, IT WAS. MAKE SURE THAT YOU RECOVER WHATEVER WATER IS USED. LANDSCAPE METERS ARE BRINGING IN 8% OF REVENUE AND USING 7% OF WATER. SO WHILE THEIR RATES MAY BE LOWER, THE WAY THAT THEY'RE CALCULATING IS RECOVERING THE COST OF THE WATER THAT THEY'RE PURCHASING IS BECAUSE THERE'S FEWER CONNECTIONS AND MORE WATER, AND

[01:25:02]

HAVING NOBODY SUBSIDIZE ANY OTHER. SO COMMERCIAL PAY FOR COMMERCIAL LANDSCAPE. PAID FOR LANDSCAPE RESIDENTIAL PAID FOR RESIDENTIAL. THERE WASN'T ANY OF THIS. SOMEBODY'S SUBSIDIZING ONE GROUP, SUBSIDIZING ANOTHER USER. THERE USED TO BE THERE USED TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY FEELS LIKE TO ME AS A JUST A, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS FROM NOT HAVING A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING, IT FEELS LIKE RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL IS SUBSIDIZING LANDSCAPE BECAUSE THEIR RATES ARE LOWER. THAT'S HOW IT FEELS BECAUSE THEY'RE USING MORE GALLONS BUT PAYING LESS PER GALLON. RIGHT? BUT IT'S JUST FIVE MONTHS A YEAR THAT THEY'RE USING WATER THE REST OF THE YEAR. THEY DON'T USE ANY WATER. AND REMEMBER, THEY'RE GETTING THEY'RE USING 7% OF THE WATER. THEY'RE GIVING US 8% OF THE REVENUE. SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY PAYING MORE FOR WATER THAN THEY'RE ACTUALLY USING BY SLIGHT AMOUNT. AND SOME OF THOSE HEAVY WATER USERS, LIKE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, WE'RE VERY CONCERNED WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT RAISING THAT. YES, I RECALL THAT CONVERSATION. AND I DON'T MEAN TO REHASH IT. I MEAN, WE DISCUSSED THIS LAST YEAR AND DECIDED TO LEAVE IT WHERE IT WAS, BUT I NEVER FELT FULLY SATISFIED AS WHY ARE THEY GETTING MORE GALLONS? WE'RE PAYING LESS PER GALLON. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND. ALAN'S SAYING, WELL, IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE ONLY USING IT FIVE MONTHS OF THE YEAR. IT'S GALLONS A GALLON, WHETHER IT'S USED IN FIVE MONTHS OR 12 MONTHS. RIGHT? BUT THEY'RE PAYING FOR MORE THAN THEY USE, ACTUALLY, AND THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT BASE FEE EVEN WHEN THEY'RE NOT PUTTING WATER OUT. LET ME EXPLAIN ONE THING HONESTLY. THE GALLON, THE COST OF ME FOR A GALLON OF WATER IS NOT ALL ALWAYS THE SAME. THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IN THIS. OUR RATES FROM JORDAN VALLEY ARE BASED ON OUR PEAK TIME. THEY'RE NOT BASED ON THE OFF PEAK TIME. SO PEAK TIME IS HOW THEY DECIDE ALL OF THIS. SO HIGHER USE TIMES DO HURT THE CITY. THAT'S HOW THAT'S HOW THEY COME UP WITH COSTS. SO WE'RE REALLY CONSCIOUS. SO THEY'RE USING THAT WATER AT NIGHT. YEAH. THEY'RE NOT DOING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. AND AND DURING THE MONTH AND THE OTHER TIMES THAT I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT TIME DOES THAT WHEN IT HAPPENS DOES MATTER. YEAH.

IF YOU FIND THAT TEN INCH METER FOR LANDSCAPE FEE, I'M GIVING THE CITY ALMOST $3,000, 12 MONTHS, AND I'M ONLY USING THAT THEATER ABOUT 5 OR 6 MONTHS, I'M STILL PAYING YOU. OH, RIGHT.

AND SO THAT CUTS DOWN ON THE COST. THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THE SEVEN AND EIGHT. YES. THAT MAKES MORE SENSE. THANK YOU. OKAY, I APPRECIATE IT. SORRY. NO PROBLEM. SO THE LOWEST BILL WAS JUST A BASIC METER CHARGE. THE HIGHEST BILL WAS $5,855.69 PER MONTH, AND LIKELY ONE OF THE SCHOOLS. ALL RIGHT. FINAL OBSERVATIONS. THESE ARE POLICY DECISIONS, RIGHT. YOU CAN THAT THAT'S HOW WE CAME UP WITH THE RATES WAS A POLICY DECISION. IT WAS YOUR WHAT WE WANT OUR POLICY TO BE IS WE WANT WATER TO PAY FOR WATER FOR THE USER THAT'S USING IT. END OF STORY.

THERE ARE CERTAIN DISTRICTS THAT OBVIOUSLY USE PROPERTY TAX SUBSIDIZATION. THERE'S AN ARGUMENT OR A DISCUSSION IN YOUR STUDY FROM ME THAT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM CAN HOLD THEIR WATER RATE LOWER OR COULD HOLD THEIR WATER RATE LOWER BECAUSE THEY GET PROPERTY TAX. AND SHOULD YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR WATER LOWER, AND YOU WANTED TO SUBSIDIZE WITH A PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT, THAT WOULD MEAN YOU WOULD REMOVE SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS THAT ARE ALLOCATED TO THE WATER FUND, OR YOU WOULD REMOVE THE TRANSFER, BECAUSE THAT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY ALLOW YOU TO REDUCE RATES IN THE WATER IN THE WATER DEPARTMENT, BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO INCREASE TAXES IN THE GENERAL FUND, RIGHT. THE PROPERTY TAX DISCUSSION IS INTERESTING. WHAT IS THE NEXUS BETWEEN AND I THINK YOU SAW LAST YEAR, NOT THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BUT THE ONE BEFORE THAT. A LOT OF LEGISLATORS WERE CHALLENGING

[01:30:03]

CAN WE MOVE TO SEWER OR IS THERE MORE DISCUSSION? ANYONE ELSE WANT TO. OKAY, THE WATER SEWER PICTURE SHOULD BE ON THE BOTTOM. THAT'S TRUE. ALL RIGHT. SO OUR BROWN MANHOLE UP THERE, SEWER STATISTICS. SO SEWER VOLUMES CALCULATED IN OCTOBER OCTOBER OF EACH YEAR. AND IT'S BASED ON THE PREVIOUS USE IN NOVEMBER DECEMBER AND JANUARY. SO WE TAKE NOVEMBER, DECEMBER JANUARY AVERAGE THAT WINTER USAGE, APPLY IT TOWARDS OUR VOLUME RATE. AND THAT'S YOUR RATE FOR THE WHOLE YEAR. JEREMY. I SHARED AN EXPERIENCE FROM AN EMAIL I GOT FROM A RESIDENT ABOUT THIS, AND SHE JUST TALKED ABOUT, I'LL ALLOW IT. THANK YOU. SO RESIDENT SENDS ME AN EMAIL AND SAYS HE WANTS A REFUND ON HIS SEWER BILL BECAUSE HE WATERED EARLIER THAN HE WAS SUPPOSED TO, BUT HE PUT HIM IN THE NEXT TIER. SO HE PAID MORE WATER BECAUSE IT WAS IN MARCH INSTEAD OF WAITING. AND SO HE PUT HIM IN THE HIGHER TIER. SO HE HAD TO PAY MORE WATER. SO HE THOUGHT BECAUSE HE'S MORE WATER, THE SEWER RATE WENT UP TOO. BUT IT DOESN'T BECAUSE THE SEWER RATES ARE ONLY DONE IN THE MONTHS OF NOVEMBER, DECEMBER AND JANUARY. SO WE DID IN MARCH.

IT DID NOT AFFECT HIS SEWER BILL. SO THAT'S THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE, IS THAT RESIDENT DID NOT GET HIS $9 REFUND ON SEWER BILL, BECAUSE THAT WATER WENT TO HIS GRASS. NOT THERE IN THE EXTRA TIER. AND WHAT THIS DOES TO IN NOVEMBER DECEMBER, JANUARY WHEN YOU SEE A HIGH WHICH YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN A MINUTE, A REALLY HIGH SEWER BILL, IT INDICATES AN INDOOR WATER LEAK. IT USUALLY ISN'T A RUNNING TOILET. OCCASIONALLY IT'LL BE THE STOP WASTE VALVE IF SOMEBODY DIDN'T TURN IT OFF OR IT'S LEAKING UNDERGROUND. BUT TYPICALLY IT'S A RUNNING TOILET AND IT'S AMAZING HOW MUCH WATER IT CAN USE. SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT HERE IN A SECOND. 25,561 CONNECTIONS TO THE SEWER SYSTEM. BUT THE SEWER SYSTEM WORKS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. SO THE NUMBER OF UNITS, THERE'S A CONNECTION IN MULTIFAMILY AND HOA OF 200 ACCOUNTS, BUT IT SERVES 8500 UNITS. OKAY. THAT'S HOW MANY APARTMENTS OR MULTIFAMILY HOUSING OR HOA HOMES THAT ARE ALL ON LIKE A SINGLE METER. SO 200, 200M SERVE 8500 UNITS OR HOUSEHOLD UNITS. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE REST OF THAT. THE AVERAGE MONTHLY BILL FOR SINGLE FAMILY IS $39.97, AND THE BILL PER UNIT IS $39.97. BUT ON THE MULTIFAMILY HOA, THE AVERAGE BILL IS REALLY HIGH, RIGHT, $1,400, BUT YOU HAVE TO DIVIDE IT BY 8500 UNITS. IT'S 33, 55.

AND I DIDN'T DIVIDE IT BY 8305. I DON'T KNOW, WE DID AN AVERAGE, JUST GO WITH IT, 64% OF OUR TOTAL REVENUE IS FROM SINGLE FAMILY, 19% FROM HOAS, 12% FROM COMMERCIAL AND 5% FROM INDUSTRIAL. AND WE ONLY HAVE ONE INDUSTRIAL ACCOUNT, AND THAT IS DANA. AND THEY ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT WE'VE APPROVED UNDER THE INDUSTRIAL CATEGORY. THERE ARE OTHER FOOD MANUFACTURING FACILITIES, BUT IT IS NOT ONE THAT WE HAVE APPROVED TO BE UNDER THE

[01:35:01]

MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS SO THAT THERE ISN'T ANY KIND OF SUBSIDIZATION BETWEEN THESE CATEGORIES. BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT DANNON BRINGS IN 14% OF THE VOLUME AND BRINGS IN 5% OF THE REVENUE. THE THE BUDGET FOR US RIGHT NOW, SOUTH VALLEY WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY, OUR REVENUE FOR THAT FEE IS $11.9 MILLION. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE SPENDING $10.6 MILLION.

HOWEVER, WE ARE VERY AWARE OF SOME VERY LARGE PROJECTS THAT SOUTH VALLEY WILL NEED IN THE NOT SUPER NEAR, LIKE NOT NEXT YEAR, BUT IN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YEARS, WE'LL HAVE A PLANT REBUILD. AND SO WE NEED TO BE READY FOR THAT. OUR CITY'S FIXED RATE. SO WE CHARGE A VERY LOW FIXED RATE IN THE SEWER, BRINGS IN $623,000. BUT OUR FIXED COSTS ARE $5.6 MILLION.

IT. YEAH. AGAIN, YOU COULD BRING THE YOU COULD BRING THE USAGE OR VOLUME RATE WAY, WAY DOWN AND BRING THE FIXED RATE UP. BUT AGAIN, IT WOULD AFFECT A LOT OF USERS. SO THAT'S KIND OF HOW THAT'S PLAYED OUT. OUR VARIABLE RATE IS FROM OUR VOLUME CHARGE. AND THAT'S $5.8 MILLION AND EXPENSES $2 MILLION FOR THAT. MAYOR'S BUDGET ASKED FOR A 5% INCREASE. AND WE'VE ANTICIPATED A YEAR OVER YEAR, 5% INCREASE AS WELL. COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS SLIDE? I HAVE A QUESTION. SURE. THE DOWN IN IS ONE OF THOSE LINES SPECIFICALLY JUST FOR DEBT.

THAT INDUSTRIAL COLUMN IS ALL DOWN. THERE'S ONLY ONE CUSTOMER IN. AND THAT THEY BRING IN 14% OF THE VOLUME, BUT ONLY 5% OF THE REVENUE. AND I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THAT WHEN WE WENT ON A TOUR OF THE THE WATER RECLAMATION PLANT, THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE WORKING WITH DANNON TO, TO DO SOME PRE-TREATING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO IS THAT WHY WE'RE CHARGING THEM LESS? BECAUSE THEY'RE PRE-TREATING THEIR OUTPUT? IS THAT. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I DON'T HAVE IT ANSWERED, BUT THERE ARE TWO. THERE ARE DIFFERENT PARTS AND COMPONENTS OF SEWER. SO THERE IS A WATER VOLUME THAT YOU RECEIVE. AND THEN THERE'S A NUTRIENT LOAD. A LOT OF THE PRETREATMENT TAKES OUT THE NUTRIENT LOAD. IT DOESN'T TAKE OUT THE THE WATER VOLUME, SEWAGE VOLUME, RIGHT. SO A LOT OF THE TREATMENT THAT YOU'RE SEEING IS THEM REMOVING A LOT OF THE BIOSOLIDS THAT WOULD GO INTO THE PLANT SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO TREAT IT LIKE RECEIVING CHEESE CURD. EXACTLY, EXACTLY. SO THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE THAT OUT BEFORE, I THINK DANNON'S ALSO LOOKING FOR WAYS TO REDUCE THEIR VOLUME IN THE SHORT TERM TOO. I KNOW THEY'VE COME AND TALKED WITH THE CITY ABOUT SEEING IF WE COULD USE SOME OF THAT WATER AS SECONDARY SECONDARY WATER IN LOCKWOOD PARK. SO I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TRIED. THEY ARE TRYING TO SEE WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH THEIR VOLUME. SO THE ANOTHER THING THEY TOLD ME ON THE TOUR WAS THAT DAIRY IS REALLY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO PROCESS AT THE AT THE PLANT. YES. WHICH IS WHICH IS. DANA. SO THAT'S MOSTLY DOWN IN THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE DAIRY. SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S REALLY COSTING LESS WORK AT THE PLANT. I DON'T MIND THAT WE'RE CHARGING THEM LESS, BUT IF IT'S COSTING EVEN MORE TO PROCESS THAT DOWN AND OUTPUT, I DON'T

[01:40:07]

MR. GROVER, YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? YEAH. I COULD JUMP IN TO AND THEN PASS IT BACK TO CORBETT. SO I'VE SEEN THIS IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS LIKE SCHREIBER FOODS IN LOGAN, FOR EXAMPLE. THEY'RE ALSO DOING DAIRY PROCESSING. WHAT THEY'LL BASICALLY DO IS THEY'LL END UP HAVING LIKE, HERE'S THE COST ESTIMATE FROM THE SEWER DISTRICT, AND THEN THEY'LL DO THEIR OWN ENGINEERING IN-HOUSE TO SEE IF THEY CAN DIVERT IT AND TURN IT INTO SOLIDS AND THEN TURN IT INTO WASTE IN SOME OTHER WAY. AND SO EVERY PLANT KIND OF GOES THROUGH THAT. MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE FIRST PHASE OF DANNON, THEY SAID, WELL, OKAY, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND PAY AND HAVE THE WASTE TREATMENT GROUP, YOU KNOW, DO THAT WORK. BUT AS THEY THEN SCALED UP, THEY SAID, WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY BETTER FOR US TO DO IN-HOUSE. SO THEY KIND OF HAVE THAT, THAT PROCESS OF WHERE THEY, THEY HAVE BROUGHT SOME OF THAT IN-HOUSE. SO THEY'RE CARRYING THE IT'S A COST AVOIDANCE TYPE SITUATION, IF THAT'S HELPFUL. AND I DON'T KNOW, WE'RE JUST GOING TO POINT OUT TREATMENT AT THE TREATMENT FACILITY. COSTS ARE PROPORTIONAL TO VOLUME AT THE CITY LEVEL WITH THE WASTEWATER FUND, CITY COSTS ARE PROPORTIONATE TO NUMBER OF UNITS, NUMBER OF LATERAL LINES, NUMBER OF PIPES. AND SO GANNON HAS ONE CONNECTION, A LOT OF VOLUME, BUT JUST ONE CONNECTION. SO THAT'S THAT MAKES IT CHEAPER FOR A LITTLE CHEAPER BECAUSE IT'S JUST FEWER LATERAL LINES. WE'RE CONNECTED NOW. THEY'RE BIGGER RIGHT. IT'S BIG THESE BIGGER PIPES BUT THERE'S JUST FEWER CONNECTIONS. SO FEWER LINEAR FEET OF PIPE DEDICATED TO THAT ONE USER. THANK YOU. THERE'S NO WAY TO RECYCLE THAT CURD. THERE'S NOT A WAY. ALL RIGHT. EXCUSE ME. THIS IS A RATE COMPARISON SCHEDULE. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT A LOT OF THE SEWER DISTRICTS RELY ON PROPERTY TAX REVENUE. RIGHT. SO WHEN I DID A COMPARISON, I ADDED THAT COMPONENT IN SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE APPLES TO APPLES.

YOU CAN SEE WEST JORDAN SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENT IS 39.97 IN MIDVALE. THEY DO NOT HAVE A PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT. A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL SEWER IS $52.89. IT'S PRETTY EXPENSIVE. JORDAN BASIN IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, WHICH USED TO BE SOUTH VALLEY SEWER.

THEY HAVE A PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT, BUT COMBINED THAT'S 3954. THEY ALSO HAVE DIFFERENT RATE SCHEDULES FOR ELEVATION LEVEL DIFFERENCES. SO UP ON TRAVERSE MOUNTAIN IN DRAPER THERE IS A MUCH, MUCH HIGHER SEWER RATE. THEY ACTUALLY HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF RATES BASED ON ELEVATIONS. AND THAT IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THE CITY MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT AS WE CONTINUE TO DEVELOP GOING UP THE HILLS. TAYLORSVILLE BENNION 4294. YOU CAN SEE WE ARE ONE OF THE LOWEST EXCEPT FOR SANDY SUBURBAN IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, AND THEIR RATE IS 2346. LET'S SEE. AND I DID NOT ADD THE PROPERTY TAX COMPONENT TO MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE THAT I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. SO THOSE ARE JUST THEIR FLAT RATES FOR MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL. BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT ALL OF THEM HAVE A RATE THAT'S DISCOUNTED FROM SINGLE FAMILY. OUTSIDE OF MID VALLEY IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT. THEY DO A UNIFORM RATE QUESTIONS. MR. GREGOR. THE GROWTH ON THE WEST SIDE, I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE OUR SEWER LINES BIGGER ON 70TH AND 90TH AGAIN. AGAIN. YOU KNOW I MEAN IT'S 70TH DAY FOR WHEN WE STARTED 78 WHEN THE CITY PUT IN THE PIPE FOR 78, THEY DID AN AMAZING JOB OF ESTIMATING. I HOPE YOU NEVER HAVE TO CHANGE THE SEWER SIDE. 7878 EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE. THERE ARE A COUPLE LOCATIONS THAT THAT COULD USE SOME HELP CLOSER NEAR 13 OR 90TH. THAT'S THAT SYSTEM IS ALMOST AT CAPACITY. SO I WAS WONDERING, I WOULD REALLY HOPE THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO ADD MORE INTO THAT SYSTEM, BECAUSE IF ANYONE REMEMBERS WHEN WE UPDATED THE SEWER ON 70TH SOUTH, HOW DIFFICULT THAT WAS, TIMES THAT BY TEN. SO I DON'T WANT TO SHUT DOWN 90TH. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD DO THAT. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF UDOT WOULD LET US DO THAT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO BE VERY CREATIVE ABOUT IDEAS LIKE DIVERTING SOME OF DAN AND SEWER

[01:45:01]

I GUESS I'M JUST WORRIED, LIKE WITH TERRAIN AND ALL THE IVORY OUT THERE ON THE WEST SIDE.

YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S A CHALLENGE. IT DOESN'T ALL TERRAIN COME THROUGH THAT AS WELL? NO. SOME OF TERRAIN GOES TO. DISTRICT. THAT'S GOOD FOR SEWER. AND WE'RE ABOUT HALF.

SOME OF TRAIN COMES THOUGH RIGHT. YES. YES. BUT I HOPE TO NEVER DO 70TH AGAIN. THERE MAY BE A PROJECT THAT GOES FROM 32 UP TO JORDAN LANDING TO CONNECT AND HELP WITH THAT AREA, BUT OTHERWISE 70TH AND 90TH I HOPE TO NEVER DO AGAIN. IT'S 78TH. I THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH CAPACITY TO FILL OUT OUR WHOLE CITY. AND FOR SEWER DOWN 78TH, I REALLY HOPE THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. WE YOU KNOW, WHEN WHEN WE BUILT OUT THE SYSTEMS WATER AND SEWER, WE KIND OF BUILT PIPES THAT GOT THINNER AND THINNER AND THINNER AS YOU GOT TO THE EDGE OF OUR CITY. AND WE ASSUMED THAT, YOU KNOW, DENSITIES WOULD DECREASE AND NUMBERS OF USERS WOULD DECREASE AS YOU WENT TO THE EDGE OF OUR CITY. BUT THROUGH DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE. AND SO IT IS A CHALLENGE FOR SURE. PROBABLY ONE OF OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGES IN THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT IS MANAGING THIS ISSUE. THAT IS TRUE FOR THE SOUTHWEST QUADRANT INDUSTRIAL.

YEAH. I'M CROSSING MY FINGERS WITH SOUTHWEST QUADRANT. THE OTHER THING THAT I'M NOT CONSIDERING THAT THOUGH, IS IF WE IF KENNECOTT WERE TO DEVELOP AND TRY AND CONNECT INTO OUR SYSTEM, WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME, SOME THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO. INTERESTING PLANS.

YEAH, WE MIGHT HAVE TO. AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT. RIGHT. WE MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT A SECOND SOMETHING SOMEWHERE. YEAH. THAT THEY COULD CREATE THEIR OWN INCENTIVE PIPE TOWARDS MAGNA OR DOWN A STORM DRAIN LINE OR A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS WE WOULD HAVE TO CONSIDER. IF YOU STARTED PUTTING PEOPLE ON KENNECOTT PROPERTY, BECAUSE I KNOW SOUTH JORDAN HAD DISCUSSED, YOU KNOW, TAKING OVER THAT LAND. YEAH, I DON'T KNOW, WHATEVER. SO BUT ANYWAY, WHEN I SAY WE'RE, I HOPE TO MAKE IT TO BUILD OUT WITH SEWER AND NOT GO THROUGH ANOTHER HUGE PROJECT ON OUR ROADWAY THAT DOESN'T, THAT DOESN'T CONSIDER ANY KIND OF COST. IF THEY WERE TO CHOOSE TO, TO COME WORK WITH US IN THE FUTURE. ALL RIGHT, SO OUR TOP TEN UTILITY SEWER UTILITY PAYERS, AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR MULTIFAMILY. AND SO. SEWER BILL COMPONENTS, THERE'S A FIXED FEE OR BASE CHARGE TO PAY FOR SOUTH VALLEY WATER. THERE'S A FIXED FEE TO PAY FOR CITY'S FIXED COST AND A VOLUME CHARGE BASED ON THE AVERAGE WINTER WATER CONSUMPTION. GO BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS SLIDE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT HERE. SO MOST OF THOSE ARE APARTMENT COMPLEXES.

SO WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT NOT ENOUGH APARTMENT COMPLEXES IN WEST JORDAN. THIS IS WHY.

BECAUSE THE MORE APARTMENT COMPLEXES, THE MORE SEWAGE LINES ARE NEEDED BECAUSE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY DO THEY NEED WATER, THEY ALSO NEED MORE SEWAGE. SO YEAH, SO I'M GLAD WEST JORDAN MADE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT YEARS AGO TO SLOW DOWN THAT. ALL RIGHT. SO SOUTH VALLEY PROVIDES OUR WATER TREATMENT. THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT UPCOMING MAINTENANCE NEEDS. EPA REQUIREMENTS AT THE TREATMENT PLANT. WE'RE PHASING IN OUR ANNUAL RATE INCREASES TO PREPARE FOR THOSE NEEDS. THE CITY IS CHARGED. THIS IS A FLAT FEE. THE CITY DOES NOT CHANGE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF VOLUME THAT WE SEND TO SOUTH VALLEY.

THEY GIVE US AN ANNUAL FEE ONCE A YEAR AND THAT'S WHAT THEY CHARGE US. SO IT DOES NOT CHANGE LIKE SOUTH VALLEY WATER, WHERE WE KNOW WHAT WATER WE PURCHASE. WHATEVER FLOWS WE SEND DOWN THE LINE DOESN'T MATTER. WE PAY THE SAME AMOUNT NO MATTER WHAT, ONCE THEY GIVE US THE BILL. SO PLANT OPERATIONS, WE PAY THEM $7.2 MILLION. OUR BOND PAYMENTS FOR PLANT MAINTENANCE IS $1.6 MILLION, AND WE PAY ABOUT $1.8 MILLION ON OTHER PROJECTS AND IMPROVEMENTS FOR THEM ANNUALLY AS WELL. SO THE ANNUAL FEES PAID TO SOUTH VALLEY IS $10.6 MILLION A YEAR, OR 60% OF OUR ANNUAL SEWER BUDGET OVERALL, AND THE ANNUAL REVENUE

[01:50:02]

PROBABLY AT SOME POINT YOU CAME AND SAID, BECAUSE OF THE FLUORIDE, IT COSTS MORE MONEY.

SO WE GOT TO HAVE THIS INCREASE. WELL, WE NO LONGER HAVE FLUORIDE, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD HOW WE'RE GOING TO SAVE MONEY BECAUSE WE NO LONGER HAVE TO TREAT THE FLUORIDE FOR WATER. I THOUGHT IT WAS THE SEWER THAT YOU CAME TO US, BUT WAS IT WATER THAT YOU CAME AND SAID THEY WERE? WE TYPICALLY AT OUR WELLS AND PUMP SITES HAD TO HAD TO ADD FLUORIDE. THAT WAS A STATE REQUIREMENT. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT ANYMORE. I THOUGHT IT WAS THE SEWER THAT THEY HAD TO TREAT IT SOMETHING BECAUSE OF THE FLUORIDE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE SEWER GROUP DOES ANYTHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF FLUORIDE IN THE WATER, BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF THINGS LIKE WHEN YOU THE STATE IS ALWAYS CHANGING THE AMOUNT OF NITROGEN THAT WE CAN RELEASE INTO THE JORDAN RIVER, AND THAT'S CAUSED A HUGE PROBLEM WITH NOT JUST FOR US, BUT FOR EVERY PLANT IN THE SALT LAKE VALLEY, THEY'VE ESTABLISHED MINIMUM GUIDELINES. THOSE MAY CHANGE WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG PLANT IMPROVEMENTS. IT'S NOT JUST IT'S AN OLD PLANT.

IT'S ALSO THE REGULATIONS ARE CHANGING AND THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY CAN MEET THEIR PERMIT REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DISCHARGE OF THE JORDAN RIVER. SO THERE'S PHOSPHORUS AND NITROGEN. THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT MOSTLY SEWER PLANTS WORRY ABOUT WHEN THEY DISCHARGE.

OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO THESE FIXED COST PERSONNEL OPERATIONS AND THE TRANSFER TO THE GENERAL FUND, THE ANNUAL COST IS ABOUT 5.6 TO $5.8 MILLION. AND WE COLLECT FROM OUR FLAT FEE $623,000. OUR VARIABLE COSTS ARE THE COSTS OF MAINTENANCE AND IMPROVEMENT TO THE SYSTEM. IT FLUCTUATES ON NEED. IT'S PAID FOR WITH THE VOLUME FEE. THE ANNUAL COST RIGHT NOW IS BETWEEN 1.5 AND $2 MILLION, DEPENDING ON OUR PROJECT DEMANDS. BUT THAT'S OUR FIVE YEAR PLAN RIGHT NOW, AND THE REVENUE WE COLLECT IS 5.7 TO $5.8 MILLION. SO IT SUBSIDIZES THE FIXED COSTS. OUR RESIDENTIAL FEE SCHEDULE. I THINK THIS IS THE INCREASE OVERALL. SO YOU'LL SEE WE DID A 5% INCREASE. FIRST LINE IS WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW. SECOND LINE IS WHAT IT WILL GO TO. 51% OF OUR ACCOUNTS ARE BILLED LESS THAN $40 A MONTH, AND 49% OF OUR ACCOUNTS PAY MORE THAN $40 A MONTH. OUR LOWEST BILL WAS $27.33, WHICH IS REALLY JUST THE BASE FEE. SAME PERSON THAT DOESN'T USE A THOUSAND GALLONS A MONTH OR PEOPLE. THE AVERAGE BILL IS 39.97, WHICH WE DISCLOSED EARLIER. AND THE HIGHEST SEWER BILL IS $279.78.

NOW, LOOKING AT THIS CUSTOMER, THEY HAD A WATER LEAK, SO THEY HAD A WATER LEAK LEFT FOR THEM DURING THE WINTER MONTHS. AND SO THE NEXT OCTOBER, IT REALLY SHOT THEIR BILL UP. SO THEY WENT FROM 5000 GALLONS USAGE IN THE LAST YEAR TO 61,000 GALLONS USAGE THE NEXT YEAR. SO THERE WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM TO GET THE LEAK FIXED. BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL USERS THAT ARE IN THAT SITUATION WHERE WE COMPARE LAST YEAR'S USAGE, THIS YEAR'S USAGE, GIVE THEM THEIR BILL AND HOPE THEY FIX THE LEAK. BUT SOME PEOPLE, THERE'S A HORSE, THERE'S WATER, AND WHAT ARE THEY DRINK OR NOT THERE. MAYBE THAT'S A TEACHING THING THAT WE COULD GET OUT. LIKE JUST, HEY, IF YOUR SEWER RATE HAS GONE UP, MAYBE CHECK FOR LEAKS AND GIVE US A CALL. MAYBE AN EDUCATIONAL PIECE WOULD BE HELPFUL. PROBABLY TEN. MULTIFAMILY. THE FEE SCHEDULE HERE IS HERE. THEY HAVE NO VOLUME CHARGE. SO UNLESS WE WERE TO PUT A METER ON THEM, WHICH WE DON'T. SO THERE'S 200 ACCOUNTS. THEIR AVERAGE BILL IS BASED ON JUST A BASE FEE. SO IT'S $33.55 PER MONTH PER UNIT. OUR COMMERCIAL FEE SCHEDULE IS HERE. OUR LOWEST BILL IS 3541. OUR HIGHEST BILL IS $7,436.10 PER MONTH. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE INDUSTRIAL FOOD SUPPLIERS. AND THIS IS THE INDUSTRIAL FEE. SO THEY HAVE A VOLUME CHARGE AND A BASE FEE. THEIR AVERAGE BILL IS ABOUT $75,000. COME ON. FINALLY JUST OBSERVATIONS SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE POLICY. IF THERE'S SOMETHING AS YOU READ THE REPORT, THERE'S ALWAYS DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN SHOULD WE

[01:55:01]

YEAH. THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER JACOB. ALL RIGHT. THEN ON THIS, WE NEED TO CLOSE THIS MEETING

[Administrative Items]

IF WE'VE GOT TIME ON THAT GO AHEAD. YEAH. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP I, WE RECEIVED AT LEAST ONE PHONE CALL ABOUT FIREWORKS AND. I WAITED. I DON'T SEE JOSH AND I, THERE'S JOSH. I DID SEND HIM AN EMAIL ASKING BECAUSE OUR GOVERNOR TOLD EVERYONE THAT MUNICIPALITIES COULD RESTRICT FIREWORKS. BASICALLY, HE'S SAYING IT'S UP TO US TO BAN THEM. AND I BELIEVE, FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD, IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY. SO I ASKED MR. CHANDLER TO WEIGH IN ON THAT. SO I'D LIKE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE ANSWER IS TO MR. BOYCE TO CORRECT ME IF I GET A FEEL ON THIS AT ALL. BUT THE WAY THAT I READ THIS, THE STATE STATUTE, IS THAT IT DOES AUTHORIZE CITIES TO RESTRICT THE AREAS WHERE FIREWORKS CAN BE DISCHARGED, BUT IT PLACES A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CRITERIA THAT LIMIT THE CITY'S ABILITY TO IMPOSE THOSE RESTRICTIONS. AND IT DOES INCLUDE A BLANKET PROHIBITION ON A CITY ISSUING A BLANKET PROHIBITION, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO WE CAN'T JUST COME OUT AND BAN FIREWORKS. BUT IF THERE ARE AREAS THAT MEET THESE CRITERIA, WE COULD DO IT. AND THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY, AND I THINK THERE MAY BE SOME COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE TRIED TO DO THIS WHERE THEY JUST SAID, OUR ENTIRE CITY MEETS THOSE CRITERIA. AND SO THEREFORE, WE'RE GOING TO BAN FIREWORKS IN THE WHOLE COMMUNITY. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO TO VET THAT, TO SEE IF THAT ACTUALLY IS A TACTIC THAT'S BEEN EMPLOYED. I SEEM TO REMEMBER A FEW YEARS AGO SEEING SOME HEADLINES IN THE NEWSPAPER ABOUT IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR JUSTIFICATION IS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE CHALLENGED ON THAT, AS YOU KNOW, OR HOW IT PLAYED OUT. MY THINKING IS THAT IF IF WE TRY TO APPLY THOSE CRITERIA AND SAY OUR WHOLE CITY MEETS IT, WE WOULD PROBABLY BE INVITING A CHALLENGE. BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE. AND, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY DEFEND THAT AS BEST WE COULD, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A DIFFICULT ARGUMENT FOR US TO WIN.

POSSIBLY THE CRITERIA BASICALLY HEIGHTENED. DANGER FOR THE AREA. IF IT'S CLOSE TO VEGETATION, KIND OF YOUR WUI AREAS. I DON'T REMEMBER CANALS AND TALKED ABOUT CANALS WASHES. IT'S NOT AN ARTICLE TODAY ON KSL.COM. AND THE ONES THAT ABANDONED ARE IN SMALL TOWN FOREST AREAS. AND IN THE CITIES LIKE OURS, THEY HAVE BANNED THEM IN AREAS JUST LIKE WE HAVE. BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN A FULL CITY BAN. IS I DID HEAR OF SOMETHING TODAY AND I THINK IT WAS STOCKTON OR SOME SMALLER COMMUNITY THAT BANNED THEM OUTRIGHT, BUT THEIR ENTIRE CITY FALLS WITHIN THAT HIGH RISK ZONE THAT THE STATE HAS JUST CREATED. AND SO THAT'S PROBABLY THEIR JUSTIFICATION, IS TO SAY OUR ENTIRE CITY IS AT HIGH RISK. WE WOULD HAVE A HARDER TIME, I THINK, TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE THAT, ESPECIALLY GIVEN HOW THE GEOGRAPHY OF OUR CITY AND THE VEGETATION AND THINGS THAT WE HAVE, WE'VE ALREADY BANNED IT IN OUR HIGH RISK AREAS. YEAH. IF I MAY, CHAIR, JUST I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO MOVE ON. NO PROBLEM. THE THE CODE SECTIONS THAT MR. BOYCE AND MR. CHANDLER, IT'S MOUNTAINOUS BRUSH COVERED AREA, FOREST COVERED DRY GRASS

[02:00:04]

BUT WHEN WE CREATE THESE LITTLE POCKETS OF, IT'S JUST REALLY HARD TO ENFORCE. AND POLICE COULD PROBABLY CHIME IN AS WELL, BUT THAT BECOMES SOME OF THE DIFFICULTY. NOW, DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULDN'T PROVIDE ANY KIND OF DIRECTION OR RESTRICTIONS? I DON'T I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE EITHER. BUT IT CAN BE VERY HARD IF WE START CARVING OUT LITTLE PIECES, TRYING TO MAKE THE WHOLE CITY HAVE A RESTRICTION, THEN HOW DO YOU GET THE WORD OUT? BECAUSE LET'S SAY YOU RESTRICT ONE LITTLE AREA, OR MAYBE 1 OR 2 PEOPLE WILL SEE IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT THE OTHER 20 MIGHT NOT. YEAH, ALL THE NEIGHBORS WILL TELL THEM AFTERWARDS.

AFTERWARDS, YOU FEEL LIKE THE RESTRICTION MAP AS WE HAVE IT IS GOOD. I DO, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH IT. YEAH. OUR BIGGEST THREAT IS ON THAT WEST SIDE. I FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT GOOD THINGS IN PLACE TO PROTECT THAT. NOW. ARE THERE LITTLE POCKETS THROUGHOUT THE CITY WHERE THERE'S UNDEVELOPED FIELDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT? FOR SURE. AND THOSE ARE THINGS WE'RE JUST THAT'S WHY WE RAMP UP OUR STAFFING. WE PUT EXTRA ENGINES AVAILABLE THAT NIGHT AND DO OUR BEST TO STAY ON TOP OF IT. I FEEL LIKE ONE YEAR, IT WASN'T EVEN FIELDS THAT WERE CATCHING FIRE, LIKE SOMEBODY CAUGHT A CAR ON FIRE AND GARBAGE CANS. YEAH. THANK YOU.

I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT UP BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THAT WE HAVE DONE WHAT WE FEEL IS RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THAT FIRE CHIEF AGREES THAT WE'RE COVERED. AND, AND I AGREE, AIR QUALITY. IT ACTUALLY I CAN SEE THE MOUNTAINS TODAY. I COULDN'T YESTERDAY I COULDN'T SEE THE WEST SIDE MOUNTAINS THIS MORNING. AND, AND IT SMELLS. AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WILDFIRES AND WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL. AND, AND THAT'S PROBABLY A MESSAGE THAT WE NEED TO CONVEY TO OUR RESIDENTS TO PLEASE BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DEAD LAWNS ALSO. YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. MARIA'S PUTTING OUT A MESSAGE TOMORROW IN THE NEWSLETTER, RIGHT? YEAH. WE GOT A TEXT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. NO. NO PROBLEM, I APPRECIATE IT. ALL RIGHT. SEEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS AND NEEDING TO MOVE ON. I WILL ADJOURN T

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.