Jun 30, 2026 Committee of the Whole

[Call to Order]

[00:00:09]

ALL RIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I'D LIKE TO CALL THE ORDER. OUR WEST JORDAN CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING. THIS IS FOR JUNE 30TH, 2026, STARTING JUST BARELY AFTER 6 P.M. WE HAVE THE ENTIRE COUNCIL WITH US TODAY, WHICH IS GREAT. ALL OF OUR MEMBERS, PLUS MANY OF OUR CITY STAFF. AS WE'LL BE TRYING TO GO THROUGH A FEW ITEMS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO

[a. Presentation of the 9000 South Corridor Study (Bangerter Highway to 4800 West)]

JEREMY. BEFORE HE CAME HERE, TOO. SO THEY'VE GOT A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP, AND I HOPE WE DO TOO. AFTER HE'S DONE HERE TODAY. THANKS, JEREMY. TAKE IT AWAY. GO AHEAD. WELL, I'LL OPEN IT UP SOME MORE. AS YOU GUYS GO TONIGHT YOURSELF, THERE'S THE ONE ROAD IN WEST JORDAN THAT GOES FROM MOUNTAIN RANGE TO MOUNTAIN RANGE. IT'S AN IMPORTANT ARTERIAL. WELL, ALMOST WILL BE THERE IN THE TRAFFIC. OR THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN CALLS OUT. BY 2050.

90TH SOUTH WILL GO FROM A FIVE LANE ROAD TO A SEVEN LANE ROAD WILL BE AN ARTERIAL, AND THEN 40TH WEST WILL BECOME A THREE THREE LANE COLLECTOR TO A FIVE LANE ARTERIAL. AND THAT'S BASED OFF OF 2050 NUMBERS. SO JEREMY'S WORKED HARD WITH NESTOR AND NATE ON THIS CORRIDOR STUDY. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING. AND LIKE THE MAYOR SAID, WE WANT TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK. AND SO WE'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. FOR THE FUTURE. AND WE CAN START WORKING WITH YOU TO GET THERE. SO I'LL TURN THE TIME OVER TO JEREMY AND GO FROM THERE. OKAY, PERFECT. I APPRECIATE THE INTRODUCTIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BOTH THE MAYOR AND BRIAN INTRODUCED THIS REALLY WELL. I ALWAYS ENJOY WORKING WITH WITH WEST JORDAN. AND SO IT'S A IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE TONIGHT. AS I MENTIONED, THE TRANSPORTATION MASTER PLAN RECOMMENDS SOME PROJECTS THROUGH HERE. RIGHT? SEVEN LANES ON 90TH SOUTH, WHICH YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN HERE CLOSER TO I-15. RIGHT. THEY JUST RECENTLY DID THAT. THAT'S EXPECT TO TO CONTINUE OUT TO THE WEST AS THAT TRAVEL DEMAND GROWS. RIGHT. 4000 WEST ALSO ANTICIPATED TO BE WIDENED TO A FIVE LANE CROSS SECTION. AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT SOUTH JORDAN IS DOING STUFF UP THIS CORRIDOR RIGHT INTO THE FUTURE. BUT WE ALWAYS KNEW THAT

[00:05:02]

SO THE QUEUING HERE IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE EVENING QUEUE. SO YOU SEE THESE RED LINES. SO AT THE INTERSECTION OF 90TH AND 4000 WEST WE'VE GOT QUEUING IN ALL DIRECTIONS. THAT GOES OVER THE TRACKS. THAT GOES OVER TOWARD BANGERTER AND ALL UP AND DOWN 4000. EVEN WITH THOSE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. SO THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE HERE TO, TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT THIS CORRIDOR OPERATES WELL INTO THE FUTURE.

SO WE'VE, WE'VE DEVELOPED THERE'S A LOT OF ANALYSIS THAT WENT INTO THIS OVER THE LAST NINE MONTHS TO A YEAR. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE AS WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS THAT INCLUDE UDOT AND UTA AND WFC AND OTHERS, AS WELL AS KEY STAKEHOLDERS HERE IN WEST JORDAN. AND WE'VE DEVELOPED KIND OF A SUITE OF POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS THROUGH HERE. OKAY. AND THEY'RE NUMBERED OR LETTERED A, ONE B, AND SO ON. A REPRESENTS THIS INTERSECTION HERE AT BINGHAM 4000 WEST B IS THE NEXT INTERSECTION. C IS THE NEXT INTERSECTION. SO WE'LL KIND OF GO THROUGH THOSE HERE AT BINGHAM 4000 WEST. THE PROPOSED IMPROVEMENT IN THE MASTER PLAN WORKS REALLY WELL.

AND SO YOU'LL NOTICE THIS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING AT THIS INTERSECTION IS TO REALIGN OLD BINGHAM HIGHWAY TO HIT 4000 WEST. SO IT'S NOT RIGHT NEXT TO THE TRACKS. AND THIS DOES A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE, IT MOVES THAT SIGNAL FURTHER AWAY FROM THE TRACKS. THAT'S THAT'S A SAFETY ISSUE. HAVING IT THAT CLOSE. UTA AND UNION PACIFIC REALLY WANT THAT MOVED. IF WE WANT TO GO INTO A LOT OF DETAIL, NESTOR CAN GIVE US A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT QUIET ZONES AND HOW AND WHEN THOSE ARE IMPLEMENTED. THIS HELPS US MAINTAIN THAT QUIET ZONE INTO THE FUTURE. IF WE DON'T DO THIS, THEN THAT COULD BECOME IN JEOPARDY, OKAY? IT ALSO GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SQUARE UP THE INTERSECTION 90 DEGREE ANGLE AND PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY FOR POTENTIAL, A POTENTIAL FOURTH LEG. IF THAT PARCEL TO THE WEST DEVELOPS. OKAY, THAT'S GOING TO MAKE IT HARD. YEAH. AND WE SHOW A ROAD THERE.

THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THAT HAS TO HAPPEN. THAT'S JUST POTENTIAL FOR IF THAT DEVELOPS, THIS COULD HAPPEN RELATIVELY QUICK, RIGHT? THERE'S NOTHING IN THE WAY OF THIS. CORRECT.

THIS. YEAH. THIS PARCEL HERE IS OWNED BY UTA. THEY WERE PART OF OUR DISCUSSIONS. THEY ARE VERY AWARE OF THIS. SO YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE'S VERY LITTLE THAT IS NOT A REAL HINDRANCE HERE. I MEAN THE WIDTH OF 40TH WEST IS SEPARATE BUT CORRECT. BUT THE REALIGNMENT. YEAH. YEAH. AND THAT IS IN THE MASTER PLAN AS A PHASE ONE PROJECT. SO IN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YEARS, IS IT TOO CLOSE TO THE RAILROAD CROSSING TO HAVE IT BE A ROUNDABOUT? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. IT COULD BE ROUNDABOUT. IT'S IT. HOW IS THE TRACK. I MEAN, IT GETS BUSY DURING THE EVENING, I'M SURE, BUT THE REST OF THE TIME IT'S NOT BUSY. THAT'S NOT TRUE. IT'S IT'S PRETTY BUSY.

AND LIKE WE SAID, WE SHOW A NEED FOR THAT TO BE WIDENED TO FIVE LANES IN THE FUTURE. AND SO THIS, THIS WOULD BE A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT SIZED ROUNDABOUT. OBVIOUSLY DUAL LANE RIGHT OPENING LEADS TO A COUPLE OF SCHOOLS. IT LEADS TO ITINERIS. AND THEN ALSO THE BUS DEPOT IS TO THE NORTH OF THIS HERE. SO YOU GET A LOT OF SCHOOL BUSSES IN THE MORNING AND THE AFTERNOONS. AND ALSO THE WASTE MANAGEMENT HAS THEIR GARBAGE TRUCKS THERE, AND THEY GET A LINE OF GARBAGE TRUCKS THAT GO THROUGH THERE, WHICH IS BACKED UP. SOMETIMES IT BACKS UP ALL THE WAY ONTO 90TH IN THE EVENING FOR PEOPLE COMING BACK, AND IN THE MORNINGS ALL THE WAY BACK TO RAILROAD TRACKS AT THE AT 90 ITSELF. SO IT IS QUITE BUSY. OKAY. AND SO YOU'LL NOTICE THE GREEN CIRCLE HERE IN THE RIGHT SIDE, THIS ONE IS RECOMMENDED FOR ADVANCEMENT.

OKAY. NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE OVER TO THE INTERSECTION OF OLD BINGHAM AND 90TH. I'M SORRY, COULD YOU GO BACK? SURE. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I GOT MY QUESTION ANSWERED. OH, SORRY

[00:10:04]

SO AND THAT WAS MY QUESTION IS IF IT WAS A ROUNDABOUT, CARS COULD GET STACKED UP INSIDE OF THE ROUNDABOUT, WAITING FOR THE TRAIN TO COME THROUGH. RIGHT. THE SYNCHRONIZATION OF THE SIGNAL WITH THE RAILROAD CROSSING IS ABOUT $300,000 ALONE. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE COST. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO NOW WE'LL JUMP DOWN TO INTERSECTION B OR OLD BINGHAM HIGHWAY 90 SOUTH. THIS IS JUST WEST OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS HERE. SO THIS FIRST OPTION IS TO YEAH. IS TO CHANGE THIS TO A RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT. OKAY. SO THERE'S ALREADY RAISED MEDIAN AT THE RAILROAD TRACKS INTO THE TO THE WEST. WE CAN JUST PUSH THAT THROUGH AND THAT LIMITS TRAFFIC TO, TO ONLY MAKING RIGHT IN OR RIGHT OUT MOVEMENTS STOPPING. AND LET ME JUST EXPLAIN KIND OF WHAT THE ISSUE HERE IS. THERE'S THERE'S SEVERAL. ONE OF THEM IS THAT LEFT TURNS COMING FROM THE EAST TO TURN SOUTH, SOMETIMES BACK UP OVER THE TRACKS. RIGHT. AND WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE STACKED UP OVER THE TRACKS. RIGHT. THAT'S A DANGEROUS SITUATION. THE OTHER IS NORTHBOUND COMING UP OLD BINGHAM. AND TO GET ONTO 90TH IS ALSO VERY CONGESTED.

RIGHT. WE GET SOME PRETTY LONG QUEUES OF OLD BINGHAM AND TO GET ON THERE. SO THAT'S A CHALLENGE. THERE'S NOT A MERGE RIGHT THERE. THERE'S NOT. SO WASATCH FRONT REGIONAL COUNCIL HAS. EITHER ABOVE GRADE OR BELOW GRADE CROSSING IN THEIR FUTURE PROJECTS FOR THIS LOCATION OVER THE RAILROAD TRACKS. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY DO NOT, BUT WE ARE NOT IN A THING RECENTLY, I DON'T KNOW, BUT SO WFC IS UPDATING THEIR THEIR LONG RANGE PLAN RIGHT NOW. SO IT COULD BE IN THEIR, THEIR NEW VERSION THAT'S NOT ADOPTED YET. I HAVEN'T CHECKED THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS PROJECT, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF UPDATING RIGHT NOW. THEY'RE TRYING TO AND GRADE SEPARATED CROSSINGS. SO, SO THEY'VE BEEN A PART OF OUR MEETINGS AND WE'VE INVITED THEM. SO THEY'VE SEEN THIS AND THEY HAVE SAID ANYTHING. THEY HAVE BEEN A PART OF IT. AND IT MAY BE THAT THIS PROMPTED THAT TO GET ADDED TO THE NEW RTP. I'M NOT SURE ON THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT THE OLD THE ADOPT THE CURRENTLY ADOPTED PLAN DOES NOT HAVE. I JUST I'D HATE TO LOSE THAT LEFT HAND TURN THERE IF IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR THE CROSSING. THIS IS THE ONE I THINK WOULD MAKE A BETTER ROUNDABOUT BECAUSE IT'S FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THE CROSSING AND THERE'S NO NORTHBOUND CONNECTION. SO IF YOU HAD A ROUNDABOUT, DON'T THE ONLY THERE REALLY BE NO TRAFFIC BACKING UP TO THE TRACKS, RIGHT? BECAUSE TRACK TRAFFIC GOING WESTBOUND WOULD JUST BE ABLE TO FLOW THROUGH THE ROUNDABOUT. SO I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I THINK THE ISSUE THERE IS WHEN THIS IS PLANNED TO GO TO SEVEN LANES, WHICH MEANS THAT YOUR ROUNDABOUT WOULD BE A THREE LANE ROUNDABOUT. YOU'D BE LIKE WHICH, WHICH. YEAH, YOU GET THOSE IN EUROPE, BUT I THERE'S NOT A CIRCUS THAT AND THIS IS A THIS IS UDOT ROAD AND HAVING HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU ABOUT THIS, THERE IS NO WAY THAT THEY WOULD APPROVE A THREE LANE ROAD WITHOUT THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY. RIGHT. WELL, IT COULD BE A ROUNDABOUT WHILE STILL. TWO BRAINARD TOLD ME, WAS THAT MULTIPLE LANE ROUNDABOUTS BECOME REALLY PROBLEMATIC. YEAH. SO I SAID, ALL RIGHT, YOU'LL NOTICE OUR OUR OPTION HERE IS YELLOW. THIS COULD BE RECOMMENDED FURTHER DEPENDING ON STAKEHOLDER FEEDBACK. THIS IS NOT LIKE A FANTASTIC OPTION, RIGHT? IT'S NOT BECAUSE A LOT OF TRAFFIC THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO THIS. YES, EXACTLY. EXACTLY. IT LIMITS MOVEMENTS AND IT AND IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE NORTHBOUND ISSUE. RIGHT. SO THIS NEXT OPTION IS TO TRY TRY AND IMPROVE THAT. RIGHT? SO THIS ACTUALLY SIGNALIZES THIS INTERSECTION. AND WHAT THIS DOES IS IT DOES A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE, IT ALLOWS YOU TO KEEP THE LEFT LEFT IN MOVEMENT, OKAY? IT ALSO ALLOWS YOU TO SYNCHRONIZE IT WITH THE RAILROAD, WHICH NESTOR TALKED ABOUT A MINUTE AGO. THAT WAY, IF THE LEFT TURN TRAFFIC STARTS TO BACK UP TOWARD, YOU KNOW, GETS TOWARD THE END OF THAT QUEUE STORAGE, WE IT WILL PROMPT THE SIGNAL TO CHANGE AND THEN CLEAR THAT LEFT TURN QUEUE FOR THE TRAIN BEFORE, WELL BEFORE IT EVEN GETS TO THE TRACKS. BUT YES, WHAT THAT ALSO DOES IS BECAUSE IT'S STOPPING

[00:15:04]

YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REAL EXCITED ABOUT THIS ONE. FOR A COUPLE REASONS. I THINK CRASHES WAS THE BIGGEST. BUT THEY ALSO DON'T LIKE IT THAT CLOSE TO THE RAILROAD BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, IT MAKES MORE WORK FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO COORDINATE IT WITH THE RAILROAD. AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE. IT'S NOT AN EASY THING AND IT'S EXPENSIVE AS WELL, LIKE MR. SAID. AND SO THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DO IT. SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I THINK THEY'RE NOT THAT EXCITED ABOUT THIS OPTION. SO DO WE HAVE A LOT OF BREXIT THAT INTERSECTION. CURRENTLY THERE'S NOT A TON THE CRASHES. WE HAVE AN INTERSECTION OF PEOPLE TURNING RIGHT BECAUSE THEY'RE LOOKING LEFT AND THEY DIDN'T SEE THE CAR IN FRONT OF THEM STOP UNTIL THEY HIT WHERE THEY'RE GOING OFF TO 90TH. THAT'S WHERE THE CRASH HAS HAPPENED. I'VE SEEN VERY FEW GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION, AND THEY CLAIM THAT THAT WILL INCREASE THE SIGNAL IN THERE.

HOW WOULD ADDING THE LIGHT INCREASE? TO ME, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE THEY SAY, OH WELL, SIGNALIZED INTERSECTIONS HAVE MORE CRASHES. WELL, YEAH, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE TRAFFIC GOING THROUGH A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION. I MEAN, PEOPLE GO THERE ON PURPOSE, RIGHT? RIGHT. IT'S A CORRELATION. OR IS IT THE ANALYSIS THEY SENT ME AND SHARE IT WITH YOU? THEY SENT THAT TO ME. YEAH. THEY SAID THAT THE SIGNALS WOULD INCREASE CRASHES.

YES. AND THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STUDIES ON THIS. SO THEY SHOW THIS. THIS GOES BACK TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ROUNDABOUTS A LITTLE BIT. SO IF YOU HAVE AN INTERSECTION SAME SAME VOLUME, SAME EVERYTHING, AND YOU CHANGE IT FROM AN ALL WAY STOP, LET'S SAY TO A SIGNAL CRASHES GO UP QUITE A BIT. IF YOU CHANGE THAT SAME INTERSECTION TO A ROUNDABOUT, CRASHES GO WAY DOWN, OKAY. BUT THEY WON'T DO IT RIGHT, BUT THEY WON'T DO A ROUNDABOUT HERE. YOU'RE RIGHT.

SO I AND I AGREE THIS WILL HAVE MORE CRASHES THAN IF YOU ELIMINATE THAT TURN AND MAKE IT RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT. OF COURSE, THAT'LL MAKE FEWER CRASHES. CORRECT. BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE ELIMINATING MOVEMENTS. ONE THING ABOUT ROUNDABOUTS IS YOU DON'T NEED AS MANY LANES. IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF ALL OF 90TH SOUTH WAS ROUNDABOUTS, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO WITH 5 TO 7 LANES, KEEP IT AT 2 OR 3 EACH DIRECTION. YEAH, I, I THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE TO AN EXTENT. RIGHT.

AND WELL, IT DEPENDS ON YOUR TOLERANCE FOR, FOR HEAVY TRAFFIC. YEAH. ROUNDABOUTS ARE VERY EFFICIENT AND I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF ROUNDABOUTS. BUT AS YOU GET TO THE REALLY HIGH VOLUMES, THAT'S WHERE THOSE SIGNALS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT. AND MOVING TRAFFIC ROUNDABOUTS, FLEX LANES, ROUNDABOUTS. WE'LL TALK ABOUT FLEX LANE A LITTLE BIT. SO ROUNDABOUTS FAIL DYNAMICALLY. SO ONCE YOU OVERLOAD THEM TOO MUCH THEN THEY THEN THEY FAIL. SO SIGNALS CAN KIND OF HANDLE THAT BIGGER, BIGGER VOLUME. AND 90TH IS ONE OF THOSE REALLY BIG ARTERIALS, RIGHT? SO SO I LIVE OFF OF 73, 56 AND THERE ARE TWO ROUNDABOUTS UP THERE. THE MAIN ONE THAT GETS BY THE SMITHS. YEAH. YEAH, THAT ONE IS PRETTY CROWDED. SO I COULD SEE THAT HAPPENING HERE BECAUSE THE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC, DEPENDING ON WHAT TIME OF DAY OR EVEN THE EASTBOUND, BECAUSE I TAKE MY HOMEWORK, I'M SOMETIMES SITTING THERE FOR A WHILE JUST WAITING FOR THE WESTERN TO GO. SO BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A ROUNDABOUT EXCEPT INTERSECTION WHERE THEY ALL QUEUE UP AND THEN THEY ALL COME THROUGH AT ONCE. SO YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. YOU GOTTA WAIT. AND THE VOLUMES HERE COMPARED TO 76 OR AT LEAST IN THE FUTURE, SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER. SO. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. THIS OPTION IS, IS TRYING TO SOLVE THE NORTHBOUND RIGHT TURN AS WELL. SO THIS CREATES AN ACCELERATION LANE. SO BASICALLY THE NORTHBOUND RIGHT TURN CAN GO INTO ITS OWN LANE, RIGHT. AND ACCELERATE AND THEN MERGE WITH TRAFFIC ACROSS THE TRACKS.

WOULD IT HAVE TO MERGE BEFORE THE TRACKS. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM. AND SO THIS IS A CHALLENGING ONE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GET AUTHORIZATION FROM THE RAILROAD TO ADD ANOTHER LANE ACROSS THE TRACKS, WHICH IS A CHALLENGE. SO IT HAS TO GET ACROSS AND THEN START ASKING NOW. OH YEAH, IT'LL TAKE YEARS AND YEARS. I CAN GO IN IN 2015. YEAH. AGREED. SO YOU'LL NOTICE THIS ONE IS IS YELLOW. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING. THIS IS JUST BASICALLY A WIDER VERSION OF WHAT'S THERE NOW. YEAH. SO WHY ARE YOU NOT RECOMMENDING IT BECAUSE OF WORKING. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T FULLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM. RIGHT. THIS THE SIGNAL ACTUALLY FIXES OPERATIONS MUCH BETTER THAN, THAN THE OTHER, RIGHT? IF WE

[00:20:06]

SO THIS TALKS ABOUT THE ACTUAL GRADE SEPARATION OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS. OKAY. AND THIS IS ONE THAT WE DO RECOMMEND MOVING FORWARD. IT IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE. BUT BUT THERE'S SOME GOOD REASONS FOR THIS. FIRST OF ALL, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT QUIET ZONES, RIGHT. THIS REALLY HELPS MAINTAIN YOUR QUIET ZONE. TRAFFIC ON 90 IS ONLY GOING TO GO UP AND UP AND UP, WHICH REDUCES THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT UNION PACIFIC WILL MAINTAIN THAT QUIET ZONE HERE.

ALSO, IT ELIMINATES THAT DELAY WITH THE RAILROAD TRACKS, RIGHT. IF WE CAN JUST GO UP AND OVER THEM. PROBLEM SOLVED THERE. RIGHT. YOU CAN STILL DO A SIGNAL HERE IF YOU WANT. AND SO THAT THAT WOULD THAT INTERSECTION WOULD BE RAISED UP A LITTLE BIT AS IT'S COMING DOWN FROM, FROM THE TRACKS. BUT YOU CAN FACILITATE ALL MOVEMENTS THERE. AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CROSSING ITSELF FOR A SECOND. OH, WAIT, GO BACK TO THAT. LET'S GO BACK. MAKE SURE WHERE THAT HOME IS. IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT THOSE HOMES RIGHT THERE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? YEAH. WELL, OR THE NORTH SIDE IS GOING, IF YOU'RE INCREASING THE PUTTING THE ROAD UP HIGHER THERE IS THAT THAT'S WHAT THE. SO POTENTIALLY THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE SOME SOME STRIP TAKES THERE. THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE WITH RETAINING WALLS, RIGHT. AS THAT THAT RAISES UP.

SO YEAH, THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE SOME PROPERTY TAKES. WE HAVEN'T DONE A FULL DESIGN TO SHOW WHETHER OR NOT THE HOUSE WOULD NEED TO BE TAKEN. BUT KEEP IN MIND, WE'RE ALREADY ASSUMING THAT THIS FIVE LANE ROAD GOES TO SEVEN LANES, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE'LL BE IMPACTED AT SOME POINT ANYWAY. RIGHT? SO WE ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS WAIT UNTIL UDOT'S WIDENING THIS ROAD.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MANY OF THEM. YEAH. THAT'S THE FIRST STEP IS TO WIDEN THIS ROAD. RIGHT. THE REALIGNMENT UP ON 4000 WEST AND NEW BINGHAM. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE RIGHT AWAY. DOESN'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOU. SO TYPICALLY UDOT WILL DO IN PHASES. SO RIGHT NOW THEY'VE DONE FROM I-15 TO REDWOOD. SO NEXT PHASE WOULD BE REDWOOD TO BANGERTER. SO THIS IS A LONG IT'S A LONG WAYS OFF. DON'T TELL ME I'M GOING TO BE DEAD BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. MY FEMALE ANCESTORS. THIS COULD BE 40 YEARS OR 100. OH. SO SO HOW MANY YEARS IS IT PROJECTED? SO WE ARE PUTTING THIS IN THE MASTER PLAN AS A PHASE THREE PROJECT, WHICH PUTS IT BETWEEN 2045 AND 2055. OKAY. SO IT'S A WAYS OUT. I'M NOT MAKING ANY PLANS, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ROAD TAX ON THE COUNCIL. SO. SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO DO HERE IS COMPARE THIS TO SOME OTHERS. OKAY. ONE OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE DID A YEAR A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO NOW IS WE LOOKED AT EVERY RAILROAD CROSSING IN ALL OF WEBER COUNTY. AND IF YOU'VE BEEN UP TO WEBER COUNTY, THAT INCLUDES OGDEN, THERE A LOT OF RAILROAD CROSSINGS, OKAY, IN THE OGDEN AREA. AND WE LOOKED AT ALL OF THEM AND PRIORITIZED THE ONES THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO GRADE SEPARATE. THE ONE THAT CAME OUT ON TOP WAS 12TH SOUTH OR SR 39. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT ROAD ACROSS THE ROAD TRACKS AND THE QUEUES THERE WHEN THE THE TRAIN GOES BACK AND BACK UP FOR MILES, LITERALLY MILES, AND IT'S BAD TRAINS VERSUS TRACKS, RIGHT? LIKE THAT'S, THAT IS TRUE. SO, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. SO THEY ONLY HAVE SEVEN CROSSINGS A DAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S JUST THOSE TRACKS AND THEY'RE LONG, THEY'RE THE AVERAGE IS ALMOST SIX MINUTES.

OKAY. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT 90 SOUTH, WE WILL HAVE 151 CROSSINGS A DAY. BUT THEY'RE SHORT. THEY'RE ONLY 30S. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE AVERAGE CROSSING TIME OVER THE WHOLE DAY, IT'S ACTUALLY ALMOST DOUBLE AT 90TH SOUTH THAN IT IS THERE. AND IT'S NOT ONE PERSON HAVING TO SIT THROUGH 76 MINUTES. YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE FULL SIX MINUTES LESS THAN A TRAFFIC LIGHT. 30S RIGHT. BUT THE NUMBER OF CONFLICTS AND THE

[00:25:05]

YEAH. IF THERE'S A CHANCE THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE. HEY. SORRY. WE SHOULD HAVE FIXED EVERYTHING THERE. IT IS EXPENSIVE. NO QUESTION. MIKE. ALL RIGHT, THEN WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE IN THOSE HELICOPTER FLYING TAXI THINGS, SO IT'S NOT GOING TO MATTER. THAT'S TRUE.

EVERYTHING WILL BE GRADE SEPARATED. YEAH, WELL, BETTER THAN. OKAY. SO SO LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT. SO THERE'S KIND OF TWO IF WE GRADE SEPARATE IT. THERE'S KIND OF TWO WAYS TO DO THIS. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE ROAD COULD GO UP AT OLD BINGHAM, COULD GO UP AND BE A SIGNAL RIGHT THERE. RIGHT. BUT IF WE'RE RAISING SOUTH UP AND OVER THE TRACKS, THE OTHER OPTION IS WE COULD ACTUALLY KEEP OLD BINGHAM LOW AND GO UNDERNEATH 90 SOUTH.

YEAH, IT WOULD BE GREAT. SEPARATE. RIGHT. SO YEAH. SO THERE'S NO INTERSECTION THERE WOULD STAY THE EXISTING GRADE 90 EQUIPMENT CORRECT. YEAH. AND SO WHAT THAT DOES IS WE COULD ACTUALLY GO UP INTO THIS, THIS PROPERTY OR THE CORN MAZE AREA AND THEN CONNECT OVER TO OLD BINGHAM, RIGHT. AND PROVIDE PEOPLE A WAY AROUND WITHOUT HAVING TO GET ON THE NIGHTMARE.

RIGHT? 90TH HAS ALREADY GOT TONS OF TRAFFIC. AND THIS ACTUALLY DOES A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF DISPERSING TRAFFIC WITHOUT OVERLOADING. IT DOESN'T SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS, BUT IT HELPS DISTRIBUTE THAT THAT TRAFFIC. SO THIS IS ANOTHER OPTION HERE THAT I THINK IS REDISTRIBUTING THEM TOO, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET TO MOST PLACES ON OLD BINGHAM. SO THEY'RE EITHER GOING TO COME BACK OVER TO 90TH OR THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO 78. SO AS WE RUN THE TRAVEL DEMAND MODEL, GOOD QUESTION, BECAUSE WE RUN THE TRAVEL DEMAND WELL, THIS ACTUALLY DOES TAKE TRAFFIC OVER TO BINGHAM AND THEY CONTINUE EAST ON THAT OR 4000 WEST. AND SO SOME OF THEM USE THOSE ROUTES. SOME DO COME BACK TO 90TH, RIGHT. IT'S JUST WHATEVER'S THE RIGHT ROUTE FOR INDIVIDUALS. BUT IT IT DOES SPREAD THAT OUT MORE RATHER THAN SHOVING EVERYBODY TONIGHT.

AND DID YOU OVERLAY YOUR, YOUR OTHER ONE WHERE YOU'RE ALIGNING? IS THAT THE ORANGE LINE? IS THAT. YES. ORANGE LINE. YES. CORRECT. THANK YOU. THAT'S THE ORANGE LINE. ISN'T THAT ADD ANOTHER RAILROAD CROSSING THAT IT DOES. GOOD QUESTION MAYOR. IT DOES ADD A RAILROAD CROSSING THERE. SO BASICALLY WE'RE AND I THINK THE RAILROAD WOULD MAKE THIS TRADE. WE'RE GIVING UP A CROSSING WITH 50,000 CARS A DAY AT A VERY ACTIVE RAILROAD LINE AT 90TH FOR A MUCH SMALLER CROSSING ON A SPUR THAT IS NOT USED, THAT SHOWS THE TUNNEL. IT'S ONLY USED AT NIGHT. IT SHOWS THE TUNNEL AT THAT CROSSING. OH, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. WE HAD ALSO CONTEMPLATED A TUNNEL UNDERNEATH EITHER JUST JUST ON OR UNDER THE TRACKS. AND SO JUST GO UNDER THE WHOLE CORN MAZE THAT WE COULD STILL DO THAT. YEAH. SO THERE'S, THERE'S USE THE CORN MAZE.

THERE YOU GO. RIGHT. I LIKE THAT EVEN BETTER. I'D BE AMAZED TO PAVE THE CORN MAZE, PAVE THE PATHS IN THE CORN BUMPER CARS. VERY FUN. OKAY, SO THERE'S A COUPLE OPTIONS WITH THE OLD BINGHAM INTERSECTION. OH, AND THEN LET'S LET'S TALK ABOUT FLEX LINES. SOMEONE, SOMEONE BROUGHT FLEX LINES UP AS WELL. SO FLEX LINES IS ALSO AN IDEA THAT WE EXPLORED AND WE MODELED.

THAT COULD BE WEIRD THOUGH, TO GRADE CROSSING. YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE ISSUE. BUT THE BIGGEST ISSUE HERE IS IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREAS WHERE THEY'VE DONE FLEX LANES. SO. 54, 54TH, 54 SOUTH, AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO DOING IT ON PIONEER CROSSING IN AMERICAN FORK. THEY HAVE VERY DIRECTIONAL FLOWS, MEANING IN THE MORNING, EVERYBODY'S HEADED EAST. IN THE EVENING EVERYBODY'S HEADED WEST TO GO HOME. RIGHT. THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE, AT LEAST NOT TO THE

[00:30:02]

AND SO AS WE MODEL THESE FLEX LANES, THEY REALLY JUST DIDN'T PROVIDE THE BENEFIT THAT WE HAD HOPED. AND THAT'S OUR INTENT AS A CITY COUNCIL. RIGHT? YEAH. AND I THAT'S A GOOD POINT. I THINK IT SPEAKS TO WHAT YOU'VE CREATED HERE. IT'S NOT IT'S NOT A BEDROOM COMMUNITY WHERE EVERYBODY LEAVES IN THE MORNING AND COMES BACK AT NIGHT. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT COME HERE TO WORK AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO WORK AND, AND ALL DIRECTIONS, RIGHT? SO IT'S BEING USED. AS A CORRIDOR TO ONE OR 2 OR 3 JOB SITES. YEAH, YEAH. SO YEAH. THANK YOU. SO THIS YOU'LL NOTICE IS RIGHT THERE ON THE SIDE. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THE FLEX LANES IN THIS IN THIS LOCATION. WE WORK ON THAT. SO LET'S LET'S JUMP TO THE C INTERSECTION OR RIGHT HERE AT 4000 WEST AND 90 SOUTH. THIS IS THE GETTING THE LANES TO MAKE IT WORK OPTION. AND IT'S A LOT OF LANES. SO BASICALLY WE'VE GOT SEVEN LANES IN EACH DIRECTION. WE ADDED DUAL LEFT TURN LANES IN ALL INTERSECTIONS AND OF COURSE A RIGHT TURN LANE IN ALL DIRECTIONS. AND THEN ACTUALLY THE SOUTHBOUND, WE HAVE DUAL RIGHT TURN LANES. SO WE MODELED THE MODEL SHOWS THAT THERE'S ENOUGH TRAFFIC COMING SOUTH AND TURNING RIGHT. THAT WILL ACTUALLY NEED TWO OF THOSE IN THE FUTURE. SO THIS PUT ENOUGH LANES IN THERE. IT WORKS WELL.

THIS THIS IS PROBABLY VERY COMPARABLE TO AN INTERSECTION, RIGHT? A LOT OF THESE HAVE THREE LANES EACH DIRECTION ON REDWOOD PLUS DUAL LEFT TURN LANES IN ALL DIRECTIONS. SO MAYOR, DID YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT IF YOU DO, THE OLD BINGHAM UNDERPASS OR BYPASS, THAT WOULD DECREASE THE RIGHT TURNS OFF THE 40TH GOING SOUTH? YEAH. GOOD. GOOD QUESTION THERE.

SO THESE ARE ALL KIND OF LOOKED AT INDIVIDUALLY AND BUT IN THE END WE'LL NEED KIND OF ONE MASTER SOLUTION. RIGHT. AND SO IF WE PICK THIS OPTION WITH LET ME BACK UP THIS OPTION, THEN YEAH, MAYBE WE CAN GET RID OF THAT SECOND SOUTHBOUND RIGHT TURN LANE BECAUSE THEY CAN TAKE THIS ALTERNATE ROUTE AND GET THROUGH HERE, RIGHT? IF THIS OPTION IS NOT WITH THAT, THEN WE PROBABLY NEED TO. IS THERE ANOTHER QUESTION? NO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ANOTHER OPTION THAT WE LOOKED AT AT THIS INTERSECTION IS WHAT WE CALL THE THROUGH TURNS, RIGHT? YOU GUYS HAVE PROBABLY ALL DRIVEN OVER IN DRAPER, RIGHT. THE THREE TURNS ON 1/26. THEY ALSO USED TO HAVE ONE UP IN TAYLORSVILLE. THEY TOOK THAT OUT. SO ONE REASON WE WERE HOPEFUL FOR THIS IS ACTUALLY YOUR YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL MEMBER IS TO PROVIDE A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GET OUT OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, MAKE A U-TURN, AND BE ABLE TO HEAD EAST. RIGHT. AND SO WE WERE HOPEFUL THAT THIS WOULD BE ABLE TO GET OUT. IT'S NICE TO TO GET OUT FIVE MINUTES TONIGHT TO GET RIGHT. IT'S JUST TO GET OUT. 90TH IS BUSY. I MEAN, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY.

IT'S A CRAZY CORNER AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET IT'S GONNA GET WORSE. YEAH. SO THIS IS ONE THAT WE HAD, WE HAD HIGH HOPES FOR BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO WIDEN ALL THOSE LANES. AND WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR. BUT AS WE MODEL THIS, THE NUMBER OF LEFT TURNS AND THE U-TURN MOVEMENTS AND THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC WE HAVE ON 90 SOUTH, IT'S JUST DIDN'T OPERATE WELL. WE THE QUEUING GOT WORSE AND, AND THE LEVELS OF SERVICE AND DELAY GOT WORSE. AND SO WE DON'T RECOMMEND THIS MOVING FORWARD. AND I KNOW EVERYONE'S SAD THAT THEY DON'T GET A THREE TURN BECAUSE EVERYONE LOVES THE THREE TURN. BUT I KNOW, I KNOW, I SAY I SAY THAT SARCASTICALLY, NOBODY LIKES THE ONES IN DRAPER. THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT THEM ALL THE TIME. THAT'S WHY THEY TOOK OUT THE ONE IN TAYLORSVILLE. I ALREADY TOLD YOU NO, AND NO ONE'S EXCITED ABOUT THAT. THERE'S ONE UP IN LAYTON THAT ALSO SEEMS TO WORK WELL, BUT. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE ONE. SORRY, THAT'S THE ONE I'M THINKING THEY TOOK OUT. YEAH.

PART OF IT'S PART OF. IT'S OKAY. YEAH. ANYWAY, THIS ONE JUST DOESN'T WORK IN THIS LOCATION.

RIGHT. SO WE DON'T RECOMMEND. ALL RIGHT. SO GOING BACK TO THIS ONE, REALLY WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING IS, IS ADDING IN THOSE DUAL LEFT TURN LANES AND JUST MAKING SURE THIS THIS INTERSECTION OPERATES. SO THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION. SO DOES THAT HAVE TO GO IN THAT SCENARIO. SO SAY THAT AGAIN. SEE THAT BIG WHITE ROOF. NOT NOT NECESSARILY. THERE DOES

[00:35:06]

I KNOW YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT THIS AND I'M NOT I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING NEW HERE, BUT YOU'VE GOT THE RAILROAD TRACKS, YOU'VE GOT NAPA, YOU'VE GOT BANGERTER AND 90TH. ALL OF THOSE ARE BIG BARRIERS TO GET ACROSS. AND RIGHT NOW THERE'S THREE YOU CAN'T GET ACROSS OR YOU CAN'T GET ACROSS. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. SO THAT THAT LEAVES 90TH. AND THAT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A LEFT TURN ON. WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A DIFFICULT SITUATION. IN THE THE PREVIOUS STUDY WE LOOKED AT, WE CAME UP ABOUT MAYBE TEN DIFFERENT IDEAS OF WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS. AND THE CHALLENGE HERE IS THAT ALL OF THEM ARE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT AND VERY EXPENSIVE. RIGHT? THERE'S THERE'S NOT VERY THERE'S NOT A GOOD, FEASIBLE, SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR THIS PROBLEM. RIGHT? I KNOW ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT PEOPLE OFTEN POINT TO IS WE'LL JUST PUT A SIGNAL ON. I MEAN, WELL, THERE'S A COUPLE ISSUES WITH THAT. ONE, IT DOESN'T MEET SIGNAL WARRANTS. THOSE ARE THERE'S A FEDERAL WARRANT CRITERIA. IF YOU PUT THOSE IN, THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR LIABILITY THERE. UDOT HAS ALREADY SAID THEY WILL NOT THEY WILL NOT PUT A SIGNAL IN THERE, BOTH BECAUSE IT'S NOT WARRANTED AND TWO, BECAUSE IT'S TOO CLOSE. THEN WHY DID WE LOOK AT A SIGNAL ON ONE OF THE SCENARIOS? WELL, PART OF THE THREE TERMS. RIGHT. BUT PART OF THE THREE TERMS. SO THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE 4000 WEST INTERSECTION. OKAY. YEAH. AND AGAIN, THAT WAS THAT WAS OUR WAY TO TRY AND BE CREATIVE TO GET UDOT TO, TO AGREE TO A SIGNAL IN THAT AREA. THAT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA. AND THIS ISN'T EITHER. WE DON'T NEED TO SPEND TIME ON THIS. IT'S IT'S NOT FEASIBLE. IT'S WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE. IT'S CHEAPER TO TAKE OUT A HOUSE IN THE CORNER AND GO OUTSIDE OF NAPA. YEP. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE LOOKED AT AS WELL. WE LIKE I SAID, WE HAD ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO, ONE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS OVER THERE, DO YOU LIKE TO LEAVE? OH, WE HAVE A HOUSE ON THAT ROAD. THAT WILL BE. AND THE MAYOR AND THE MAYOR KNOWS WHICH ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS USED TO LIVE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND HIS HOUSE GOT TAKEN OUT BECAUSE OF BANGERTER, SO. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SEVERAL OF OUR PIECES O THE PIECES. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT BRADEN'S GETTING MARRIED TO MY NEIGHBOR. NO WAY. SO HOW ABOUT CAN WE NOT DO SOMETHING FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD? CAN WE NOT HAVE, LIKE, A NO RIGHT TURN OFF OF BANGERTER TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT

[00:40:02]

IT IS. RIGHT. IT'S IT'S INTERCHANGES, RIGHT. UDOT DOESN'T LIKE THE FREEWAY FOR BANGERTER, BUT THERE IS A RIGHT WAY. THEY'VE CREATED A FREEWAY AND WE REALLY DON'T WANT TRAFFIC TO BACK UP ONTO THE FREEWAY FROM A RAMP BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE GOING 70 AND PEOPLE THAT ARE STOPPED RIGHT THERE. AND THAT THAT IS CREATES A LOT OF CRASHES THAT ARE SEVERE. SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY HESITANT. AND THEY WOULD SAY NO TO THAT. SO WE CAN HAVE NO HELP FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THE ONLY THING I CAN DO IS MOVE AND ENCOURAGE MY NEIGHBORS IF TO KNOW THAT WE'VE ENTITLED THOUSANDS OF UNITS AND MORE WILL BE COMING.

SO IF IF YOU'RE ALREADY GETTING IN CRASHES, WHICH WE ARE, THEN YOU NEED TO MOVE BECAUSE NO ONE WILL DO ANYTHING. THEY ACTUALLY NEED TO GET MORE CRASHES. THEN YOU'LL NEED TO MORE. I KNOW, AND IF SOMEONE DIED, I KNOW. YEAH, THAT'S ALL I NEED IS SOMEONE TO SACRIFICIAL LAMB, RIGHT? SO I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO. THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO. THEY'RE JUST EXPENSIVE, RIGHT? YOU CAN BUILD A BRIDGE ACROSS BANGERTER. YOU CAN DO WHICH, WHICH IS CRAZY EXPENSIVE, RIGHT? YOU CAN WAIT TILL NAPA REDEVELOPS. RIGHT. AND THEN PUT A CONNECTION OUT TO 4000 WEST. YOU COULD LOOK AT PURCHASING A HOME AND COMING THROUGH THERE.

RIGHT THERE. WE TALKED ABOUT THE UNDER WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? IT'S BACK TO THE STORM. THIS ONE WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAD A TUNNEL UNDERNEATH FOR THE LEFT TURNS THAT POPS BACK UP. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE EXPLORED ON THE 90TH RIGHT BEFORE THE BRIDGE THOUGH. THESE ARE ALL VERY EXPENSIVE OPTIONS. AND SO THAT'S WHY I SAY THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO, BUT NONE OF THEM ARE FEASIBLE. I'LL CALL IT IN IN THE NEAR TERM. THEY'RE ALL VERY EXPENSIVE. THEY'RE ALL VERY CHALLENGING. RIGHT? HOW DOES THE. THE BELOW GRADE CROSSINGS, LIKE HOW DEEP DO THEY HAVE TO GO TO AVOID UTILITIES? SO, SO I LIKE TO COMPARE IT TO IF YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN TO CITY CREEK UP IN SALT LAKE, RIGHT? SAME THING. YOU'VE GOT THAT CENTER TURN LANE WHERE YOU MERGE OVER IT, DROPS DOWN IN AND GOES INTO THE PARKING GARAGE, RIGHT? BE THAT SAME THING. AND THEN IT WOULD JUST COME BACK UP ONTO THAT ROAD SO IT CAN BE DONE. RIGHT. AND THERE'S, THERE'S EXAMPLES OF THAT, BUT IT'S EXPENSIVE AND IT COSTS MONEY AND THERE'S POTENTIAL UTILITY CONFLICTS AS YOU DROP DOWN UNDERNEATH THESE THINGS. SO IT'S NOT 150 HOMES.

IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT. CAN'T. THAT'S THE REALITY OF WHAT I'M TOLD ALL THE TIME. IT'S A LOT OF MONEY FOR THAT. AND THAT'S SAD THAT THOSE LIVES DON'T MATTER. THAT'S WHAT I HEAR AND THAT'S WHAT MY NEIGHBORS HEAR. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL THEM, BECAUSE I CAN'T DO MORE THAN WHAT I'VE ALREADY DONE. RIGHT? IT'S HARD. AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A SIMPLE SOLUTION, BUT THAT THAT RIGHT TURN OUT AND FINDING A WAY AROUND, I THINK IS, IS THE BEST OPTION AT THIS POINT IS MAKING THAT RIGHT TURN, MOVING OUT AND GOING AROUND. THAT'S THAT'S A. CRAPPY SOLUTION. AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE DAY ISN'T REALLY SAFE. AND SO WE'VE WAITED. I JUST NEED TO TELL YOU THIS, NOT BECAUSE IT'S AIMED AT YOU. YEAH. OR JUST GENERALLY WE'VE WAITED MONTHS FOR A STUDY THAT WE WERE TOLD IN MY HOME WAS COMING FOR SOME HELP. AND, AND THIS DOESN'T HELP. WELL, AND I'M I'M, I'M SORRY THAT IT'S IT'S SUCH A CHALLENGE. I KNOW IT'S A CHALLENGE. AND I'M SORRY THAT THIS DOESN'T GIVE YOU WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. I MEAN, TO TAKE A STEP BACK. YOU'RE NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING THIS. I COULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE. OH, THE REST OF WEST JORDAN. LET'S ALL LET LET'S RAISE OUR PROPERTY TAX BY $100 PER HOME SO THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD CAN HAVE A BRIDGE. ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS WORTH IT? YOU JUST SAID THEY'RE TOLD THEY'RE NOT WORTH IT. ONE MINUTE AGO YOU SAID THEY ARE WORTH IT. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT. THAT IS NOT A REALLY GOOD

[00:45:04]

WHAT ABOUT ACCELERATION FOR ME. I DON'T HAVE TO GO TO WORK. YEAH. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY THE NEXT OPTION. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THAT. SO WE DID LOOK AT ADDING AN ACCELERATION LAYER THERE ALONG WITH SOME MEDIANS. AGAIN THIS DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM. MAYBE IT HELPS A LITTLE BUT IT DOESN'T SOLVE IT. IF YOU DID THAT, COULD YOU ADD AN ACCELERATION LANE IN THE CENTER LANE FOR THE TURNING LEFT ONTO 90TH COMING OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? YES, BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO RESTRICT THE LEFT TURN INTO THE THE SOUTH LEFT TURN IN. CORRECT.

BECAUSE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE LEFT TURNS AND ACCELERATION LANE IN THAT SAME SPACE. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING WITH THE ISLAND THERE TO ELIMINATE THAT. YEAH. SO WE ABSOLUTELY COULD, WE COULD PUT THAT ISLAND, WE COULD TURN BACK TO THAT DEVELOPMENT THERE, THAT COMMERCIAL PLACE EARLIER OR LATER TO CORRECT. YEAH, REALLY. I MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION IS THE BEST THING IS TO INCENTIVIZE, ENCOURAGE NAPA TO LEAVE THAT ROAD OUT ON 40TH AND PUT SOME KIND OF RESIDENTIAL THERE, EMINENT DOMAIN, PART OF THE NAPA PARKING LOT. AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AGO WHEN WE LOOKED AT THAT. SO I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU. I ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST REALISTIC OPTION TO BE HONEST. SO DO I. TO TAKE A STEP BACK, THE, THE, THE PURPOSE OF THIS STUDY REALLY WAS TO LOOK AT THE 90TH AND 400 WEST AND WHAT, WHAT THE LONG RANGE PLAN IS FOR THESE FOR THESE CORRIDORS, RIGHT, FOR THIS CORRIDOR STUDY.

AND SO I WENT THROUGH REALLY FAST. I KNOW I WAS TALKING FAST. I KNOW YOU HAVE A BIG AGENDA AND I'M TRYING TO BE COGNIZANT OF YOUR TIME. THESE ARE ALL OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE WENT THROUGH. YOU CAN SEE THAT WE LOOKED AT THEM FROM A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES HERE, FROM DELAYING QUEUING AND SAFETY, RAIL SAFETY, CONNECTIVITY, COST, RIGHT OF WAY, AND OTHER OTHER IMPACTS. AND WE'VE KIND OF QUANTIFIED THOSE. SO WE HAVE A LIST HERE OF THOSE THAT WE DO RECOMMEND MOVE FORWARD, THOSE THAT WE DO NOT. THEN WE HAVE A FEW THERE IN YELLOW THAT IF THE COUNCIL FELT STRONGLY ABOUT THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD WE COULD MOVE FORWARD AS WELL AND ADVANCE OUR FINAL SCREEN. SO SO WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US? GREAT QUESTION. SO WE'RE AT WHAT WOULD I SAY THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY THROUGH THE STUDY? I'LL CALL IT WHERE WE'VE DONE THE ANALYSIS. WE'VE GOT THE DATA. WE'VE GONE THROUGH OUR FIRST TWO LEVELS OF SCREENING, OKAY. VERSUS OUR SCENARIO SCREENING, THEN OUR IMPACT SCREENING. THE FINAL LEVEL SCREENING IS STAKEHOLDER FEEDBACK. SO WHAT THAT IS, IS WE WANT FEEDBACK FROM THIS GROUP AS WELL AS FROM STAFF AND FROM UDOT AND UTA. AND WE SEE ALL THOSE THAT HAVE ALSO BEEN INVOLVED. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ALL THAT THAT STAKEHOLDER FEEDBACK ON THESE OPTIONS AND SAY, OKAY, BASED ON ALL EVERYTHING WE HEARD, THE MAJORITY REALLY LIKES THIS OPTION AND THIS OPTION AND THIS OPTION FOR THESE INTERSECTIONS. THAT'S OUR FINAL RECOMMENDATION.

DOES THAT, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR? SO DO YOU WANT TO SHOW US THE SLIDES AND HAVE US TELL YOU WHAT WE LIKE? OR HOW DO YOU WANT TO GET OUR INPUT? IF THAT'S THE EASIEST WAY, LET'S DO THAT. AND IF SOMEONE ELSE HAVE AN EASIER WAY. TO ME THAT JUST, I THINK, I THINK WE COULD GO THROUGH INTERSECTION BY INTERSECTION AND BE BE PRETTY QUICK ABOUT IT.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, THIS IS OUR FIRST ONE. WE REALLY ONLY HAVE ONE ALTERNATIVE. I'M HOPEFUL THAT THE COUNCIL IS IN AGREEMENT THAT THIS IS A. I LIKE THAT UTA ALREADY OWNS THAT PROPERTY. SO AND IT'S BEEN ON THE PLAN FOR A LONG TIME. YEAH, I THINK THAT WORKS WELL ON THAT INTERSECTION. PERFECT. GOOD GOOD FEEDBACK. OKAY. LET'S MOVE DOWN TO OLD BINGHAM AND 90TH.

SO WE HAVE A COUPLE OPTIONS HERE. THE ONES THAT WE RECOMMEND CONSIDERING ARE EITHER A SIGNAL OR GRADE SEPARATED OVER THE RAILROAD TRACKS. I DON'T EVER DRIVE, BUT IF I LIVED OUT THERE, I'D WANT THE SIGNAL. WELL, I THINK GRADE SEPARATE GRADE SEPARATED TAKES

[00:50:07]

SO IT'S UP AND OVER AND THEN IT MEANS IT MEANS OLD BINGHAM COULDN'T TURN TO GO TO SMITH.

THEY HAVE TO GO AROUND. YES. WE COULD JUST GO TO MACY'S INSTEAD. EXACTLY. THE YELLOW IS A TUNNEL RIGHT THERE. YEAH. SO THE WAY WE DREW THIS UP IS WE DIDN'T WANT TO CREATE A NEW RAILROAD CROSSING ON THAT SPUR LINE. AND SO WE ACTUALLY, IN THIS OPTION, CONTEMPLATED DROPPING DOWN AND GOING UNDERNEATH THAT RAIL AND INTO THE, I THINK CROSSING. OR YOU CAN CREATE A REALLY USED AT NIGHT. YEAH. AND IT'S, AND YOU'RE LIKE YOU SAID, YOU'RE GIVING UP THE 151 CONFLICTS A DAY ON 90TH PLUS. YOU'RE SEPARATING OUT ON THE NORTH ON THE NORTHEAST INTERSECTION THERE. YEP. SO IT CAN BE DONE EITHER WAY. WHY CAN'T YOU. I'M THINKING AND TALKING AT THE SAME TIME. SORRY, I'M FORMING MY THOUGHTS. BUT IF IF 90TH SOUTH IS A BRIDGE, WHY CAN'T YOU BRING THE BRIDGE DOWN BEFORE YOU GET TO THE TUNNEL? AND THEN YOU COULD HAVE A LANE THAT DOESN'T GO THROUGH THE TUNNEL. IT COULD TURN RIGHT ONTO 90TH SOUTH. SO KIND OF A COMBINATION OF THE TWO. YEAH. SO, SO OLD BINGHAM STILL GOES UNDERNEATH, BUT IT HAS A LANE THAT GOES UP AND THAT CONNECTIVITY YOU COULD HAVE A RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT ONTO OLD BINGHAM. YOU COULD DO THAT. YOU WOULD JUST BRING THE BRIDGE DOWN A LITTLE BIT SOONER. SO WE REALLY CAN'T BRING THE BRIDGE DOWN ANY SOONER. FOLLOWING ENGINEERING STANDARDS. WE'RE REALLY TOUCHING DOWN ABOUT RIGHT HERE. YEAH. OTHERWISE YOU'RE LIKE GOING STRAIGHT UP.

AND IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T MEET ENGINEERING STANDARDS. SO HOW HIGH IS IT GOING TO BE. I MEAN YOU'RE ALMOST TO THE END OF THE BRIDGE. COULD YOU BRING BRING A LANE UP. YEAH. SO THIS WOULD HAVE TO GO DOWN AND THEN YES, YOU COULD BRING THE LANE UP. YOU'D PROBABLY BE IMPACTING A LOT OF THIS LITTLE PARK AREA. BUT YEAH, YOU COULD, YOU COULD BRING A LANE UP TO TURN RIGHT.

HISTORIC. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. AGAIN, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST MONEY. YEAH. BUT THAT'S A HISTORICAL MARKER. I DON'T KNOW. IT IS A HISTORIC ALREADY. YEAH. YEAH. IT USED TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. RIGHT. YEAH. MR. DIAMOND WOULD PREFER WE SHALL. LASIX. ANYWAY. I'D LIKE TO. SO. SO WHICH ONE? I LIKE THIS IF IT'S GOT A RIGHT IN. RIGHT OUT. IT'S PROS AND CONS AND I DON'T, I JUST THAT'S A LOT OF PROPERTY WE'RE TAKING CUTTING A ROAD THROUGH WITH THE OTHER ONE. THEY CAN STILL GET OFF OF THEM, RIGHT? GO BACK ONE, PLEASE. YEAH, THEY STILL CAN

[00:55:05]

WELL I LIKE THAT. I LIKE THAT WHEN SCHMITZ DECIDED SCHMITZ CORN AND CORN BELLIES DECIDES TO DEVELOP. IT'S CRAZY CORN MAZE AND THE SCHMITZ FAMILY DOES LIKE THE CORN MAZE. JUST LEASES THAT WHEN THEY WHEN THEY DO DECIDE TO DEVELOP, WHEN THEY DO DECIDE TO WHATEVER. WHICH I THINK THIS WOULD BE BETTER FOR THAT FOR THE NEW DEVELOPMENT. YEAH, I THINK I LIKE THIS ONE THE BEST. AND I JUST SAY YOU HOLD OFF CONSTRUCTING THE YELLOW AND ORANGE PART, YOU FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO A. YEAH. JUST WAIT. YEAH. WELL, AGAIN, IT'S GREAT STUFF. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOR 30 YEARS. RIGHT. AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT BY THEN THEY'RE DEVELOPING. YEAH. IS HIGH. OH BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY LEASING MAJORITY. YEAH.

YEAH. AND THEN WHEN YOU PUT THE ROAD THROUGH IT YOU CAN HAVE TWO. EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE HOPING FOR. ZIP ACROSS, FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE. SO B5 OR B6. B6 FIVE. SOMEBODY FOR FIVE I ARE YOU SAYING FIVE? WHAT DO YOU THINK? SO BRAVO FIVE. THAT'S THE SIGNAL. AND. I LIKE. I LIKE SIX, I LIKE SIX, BUT THE RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT. YEAH. IT'S GOT TO BE THERE. AND I'M WITH THAT.

AND ONLY IF THEY ARE DEVELOPING FOR SIX. AND I MAKE A NOTE OF THE RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT. ASK THE COUNCIL AGAIN IN A YEAR AND A HALF WHEN THERE'S, YOU KNOW, NEW PEOPLE MAYBE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. I THINK IF YOU DO B6, YOU'VE GOT TO RUN THAT STUDY THAT SHOWS WHAT THAT DOES TO 90, 78. AND. BECAUSE MY GUESS IS THAT'S GOING TO SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE THE TRAFFIC AT THAT INTERSECTION. NO, NOT BY MACY'S. YOU'RE TALKING YOU'RE TALKING UP HERE WHERE WE REALIGN IT BY THE ORANGE LINE. YEAH. SO WE'VE RAN THE TROUBLE THERE. AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT DOES INCREASE.

BUT THAT'S WELL NO NOT AT THAT INTERSECTION. I'M SAYING AT 7800 AND OKAY. BECAUSE PEOPLE

[01:00:06]

NOPE. AND YOU'D ACTUALLY HAVE BETTER LUCK WITH IT THAN YOU DO. UP AND UP HAS RIGHTS ON THOSE TRACKS AS WELL. SO I AGREE THERE'S CHALLENGES. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE. BRIAN. ANYTHING ELSE? JUST COUNCIL HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FIRST. ALL

[b. Discussion of Dimonds Development – 3009 West 7800 South]

BUT THIS AGAIN, THIS WILL BE OUR THIRD TIME TO THIS MEETING IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

THE DIAMOND FAMILY'S HERE AS WELL. PRETTY MUCH, I THINK HISTORICALLY WE'VE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN ALMOST ANYBODY. AND SO THE SITE WE'RE WORKING ON AND STUFF, PROBABLY IN THEIR FAMILY MORE THAN 100 YEARS. SO THEY HAVE A LOT OF PRIDE AND A LOT OF THINGS AT STAKE HERE.

AND THEY OWN THE SHOPPING CENTER OR MACY'S IS. SO JUST MAKE SURE ALL THAT STUFF DOESN'T COME EASY. SO OKAY. FROM OUR OUR STUDIES AND FOLLOWING WITH OUR ENGINEERS AND ALL THE NUMBERS SAY THESE TYPE OF PARCELS, SPECIFICALLY IN THIS AREA OF WEST JORDAN AREN'T SUCCESSFUL OR DEVELOPERS OR FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF MORE BIG BOX RETAIL, ALMOST ALL BIG BOX RETAILERS THAT WERE AVAILABLE TO BE DONE ARE ARE DONE IN THE NEW, WE CALL IT NEW.

[01:05:04]

SO OUR APPLICATION WOULD REQUIRE SEVERAL CHANGES BY THE CITY COUNCIL. ONE IS YOUR RECENTLY ADOPTED MASTER PLAN. THE SECOND IS ZONING ON THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION. THERE'S A COUPLE MORE THAT ARE IN THAT MEMO. THOSE SEEM LIKE THE MAIN ONES THAT CITY COUNCIL IN YOUR CAP AND GRADE HAS TO BE ADDRESSED BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT THESE ARE MARKET MARKET PROPERTIES. SO THERE'S SEVERAL THINGS FOR COUNCIL TO CONSIDER. WHEN LOOKING AT THIS AS WELL.

ON WHAT WE'RE ASKING COUNCIL TO CONSIDER. I HAVE THE OUR BUILDER AND OUR ENGINEER HERE.

AND I THINK MAYBE IT'S GET JACOB ALL SET WITH OUR HOMES TO COME OVER AND EXPLAIN THEIR PRODUCT, THEIR PROJECTS AND, AND WHAT THEY'RE ANTICIPATING TO DEVELOP HERE. SO. JACOB, COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE. IT'S ACTUALLY. I'M GUARANTEED THAT ONE'S ELECTRIC WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME. DID YOU CATCH HIS LAST NAME? OKAY. PARDON ME. COUNCIL MAYOR. THANK YOU. WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS WORK ON THE SITE FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS. WITH THAT, I'M TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS, BOTH NEW AND AND WORKED ON UTILITY SIDE, RESIDENTIAL SIDE, THE COMMERCIAL SIDE. AND FEEL LIKE WE'VE WORKED HARD TO FIND A COMBINATION OF USES THAT WILL CLOSELY SATISFY ALL THE ALL THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. AND OVER THE YEARS, WE'VE BUILT A LOT OF PRODUCT. THIS PRODUCT WOULD BE POSSIBLY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST AND ALONG THE EASTERN AND THE SOUTHERN SIDE. THEY BORDER SOME EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, SMALL LOT, SINGLE FAMILY BETWEEN 4 AND 5000FT■!S. SO WE'VE MAINTAINED SOME TWO BED, TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR TWO STORY TOWNHOMES ON BASEMENTS. THEN IN THE CORE, UP AGAINST OUR COMMERCIAL IS A THREE STORY TOWNHOME. WE HAD A REALLY HARD TIME FINDING ANY INTEREST WITH WITH RETAIL, BUT WE DID FIND SOME FOLKS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN RETAIL SITE RIGHT ALONG 7800 SOUTH. SO WE DEDICATED THAT AREA TO RETAIL, AND I THINK IT'LL FUNCTION WELL. I THINK THE TRAFFIC FLOWS WELL. I THINK THE USES ARE A NICE BUFFER FROM RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. I THINK THE COMMERCIALS HERE WILL FIT WELL WITH COMMERCIAL TO THE WEST. AND I THINK THE TOWNHOMES HERE WILL HELP SUPPORT COMMERCIAL WITHOUT OVERBEARING SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. NONE OF THIS NONE OF THE ROADS ARE CONNECTED INTO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE SOUTH OF THE EAST, ONLY ON 7800 SOUTH. AND THE IMPACT IS PRETTY ISOLATED. BUT WE HAVE DONE OUR BEST TO CREATE SOME BUFFERS OF GREEN SPACE AND DISTANCE FROM THE PROPERTY LINES AND STAGING THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS DOWN AS YOU GET CLOSER TO THE PROPERTY, WE TRY TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE NEIGHBORS AND ALL THAT'S INVOLVED TO TO TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING WORK HERE.

THANK YOU. COUNCIL HAVE. I HAVE A QUESTION ON THESE WHEN UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN I BLOW UP MAPS, I CAN'T READ THEM ANYMORE BECAUSE BECOMES UNAVAILABLE. SO I WAS TRYING TO SEE WHAT YOUR DRIVEWAYS WERE. THESE ARE ALL THE UNITS ARE TWO. ALL THE UNITS ARE TWO CAR GARAGE, BUT THEY'RE REAR LOADED DRIVEWAYS. SO THE GARAGES ARE IN THE BACK FRONT DOORS TO THE FRONT. DOES

[01:10:05]

BUT THE TOWNHOMES DO THEY HAVE A LITTLE THEY HAVE A DRIVEWAY IN THE BACK, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY. THE THREE STORIES DON'T HAVE A GARAGE? NO. ALL THE ALL THE UNITS HAVE A TWO CAR GARAGE. SO THERE'S NO DRIVEWAYS ON THE TOWN'S EITHER THERE'S ALLEYWAYS OR ALLEYWAYS.

AND TECHNICALLY THESE ARE ALL THEY'RE ALL TOWNHOMES. TWO STORY, THREE STORY. THERE'S THE TWO STORY ARE IN YELLOW. THE THREE STORY ARE IN BLUE. YOU CAN SEE THE LEGEND ON THE RIGHT.

SO ALL OF THE SPACE BETWEEN THE THREE STORY HOMES IS GOING TO BE PAVED. NO, THAT'S THE WHITE NO, IT'S IT'S A IT'S A RECENT ADDITION CHANGE TO THE DRAWING. IT'LL BE LANDSCAPED AROUND THE BUILDINGS. SO AS SUCH, I WALKED THE NEIGHBORHOOD SURROUNDING THERE. AND, AND THEY'RE OKAY WITH SOME, BUT THIS IS HIGHER THAN WHAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. IT'S HIGHER THAN WHAT I'M COMFORTABLE WITH. AND I REALLY STORIES ARE HIGHER DENSITY AND I REALLY NEED PEOPLE TO HAVE DRIVEWAYS BECAUSE THEY DON'T PARK IN THEIR GARAGES. AND THEN IT'S GOING TO BECOME A FIGHT WITH THE BUSINESSES THAT SURROUND THERE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE PARKING. AND SO FOR ME, WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING IS STILL WAY TOO DENSE. THERE IS ONLY 9.6 FOR WATER IS WHAT WE HAVE. YOU'RE SHORT 42, THE SEWER, WE HAVE 9.6. YOU'RE ASKING 53. AND WHAT I WANT ALL OF US TO KEEP IN MIND IS IF WE SAY YES TO SOME THINGS TODAY, THAT MEANS IN THE FUTURE WE HAVE TO SAY NO. AND FOR ME, THIS DOESN'T ADD ON VALUE TO THAT AREA. IT JUST DOESN'T DOESN'T I JUST, YOU KNOW, IT ADDS SOME HOUSING MAYBE WHEN YOU BUILD THEM, BUT WE HAVE OVER 9000 UNITS THAT CAN BE BUILT IN WEST JORDAN. SO I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS IN WEST JORDAN. WE HAVE A BUILDING CRISIS IN WEST JORDAN BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BUILDING THEM AS FAST ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE HOME. SO I'M STILL VERY CONCERNED WITH WHAT THE ASK IS HERE. AND I FEEL LIKE WE WEREN'T HEARD WHEN THIS CAME TO US LAST TIME. JUST JUST A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. SO WE DID THE. CAPACITY STUDIES OF THE UTILITIES. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU IN OUR PACKET. IT IS. AND IT ALL CHECKED AS BEING APPROPRIATE AND BEING THERE. SO THIS NUMBER OF UNITS DOESN'T EXCEED THE CAPACITY THAT'S THERE NOW AND OR NOT THE AREAS OR THE SEWER. OUR ENGINEERS HERE CAN PROBABLY DISCUSS THAT WITH YOU BETTER, BUT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT SO THAT WE CAN SEE, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I KNOW THERE'S AREAS OF TOWN THAT HAVE THAT PROBLEM, BUT THERE'S THIS IMMEDIATE AREA DOES NOT. BUT WE HAVE ALLOTTED ALREADY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WATER FOR THIS PROPERTY. SO EVERYTHING OVER THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO ACQUIRE WATER RIGHTS. AND THAT'S IN YOUR PACKET. AND I GET IT, BUT IT'S STILL JUST, IT'S TOO MUCH FOR RIGHT THERE. I LIKE THE, I LIKE THE COMMERCIAL OUT THERE. BUT THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH ALMOST EVERY HIGH DENSITY PROJECT, AND WE ARE A PRIOR COUNCIL MEMBER, MR. NASH, IF YOU REMEMBER, WAS VERY ADAMANT THAT YOU HAVE 22 FOOT DRIVEWAYS BECAUSE SHE LIVED IN ONE OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS WHERE THEY DON'T. AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE. AND AND THAT'S WHAT SHE SHARED WITH YOU. THAT WAS HER EXPERIENCE LIVING THERE, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET AND AMAZON TRUCK COMES, THEY PARK IN THE MIDDLE. NO ONE CAN GET ANYWHERE. IT'S JUST IT'S JUST THAT WHEN WE DON'T PROVIDE WHAT WE NEED FOR THE INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY, IT BECOMES A PROBLEM FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND I JUST SEE THIS BECOMING A PROBLEM FOR THE COMMUNITY. IF I WISH, YOU KNOW, IN A PERFECT WORLD, I COULD PARK MY CARS IN MY GARAGE THAT'S BIG ENOUGH TO PARK FIVE CARS, BUT I PARKED MY MINIVAN IN THERE AND THE OTHER TWO SIT OUT BECAUSE WE GOT STUFF. AND MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA NOW HAVE STUFF, AND THEY DON'T PARK IN THEIR GARAGES. THEY STORE STUFF IN THE GARAGE. AND WHEN THEY AND, AND WITH A TOWNHOME AND NO PROPERTY, I DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO EVEN PUT A STORAGE SHED. RIGHT. SO I GOT TO STORE IT

[01:15:06]

I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS IF YOU WANT TO RESPOND. I JUST WANT TO RESPOND. I APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK. YOUR FEEDBACK. AND LET ME SHARE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT WHY I WHY THIS MAY BE BENEFICIAL RIGHT NOW. IT'S JUST TO MAKE IT FEEL WITH TOMATOES. I LIKE, I REALLY LIKE PERSONALLY AND I DON'T WANT TO GO AWAY. LIKE THIS IS A PROPERTY THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME WITH A LOT OF POTENTIAL TO BE DEVELOPED. IT. IT'S BEEN ZONED COMMERCIAL, BUT IT HASN'T SUCCESSFULLY BEEN ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED COMMERCIAL BECAUSE IT JUST WON'T WORK GIVEN THE DEPTH OF THE PROPERTY. AND I'M HAPPY WITH SOME OF THESE. YEAH, THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH ON ONE BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND COMMERCIAL. AND SO WE'RE THE RESIDENTS. YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT. SO WE'RE THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE THERE. THEY'RE LIKE, WE'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE HOMES BY US. THEY'D LIKE LIKE PROPERTIES. BUT SO I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S VALUE IN DEVELOPING VARIOUS HOUSING TYPES THROUGHOUT YOUR CITY. THERE'S A LOT OF TOWNHOMES BEING BUILT ON THE WEST OR THE WEST OR WEST WARD. I WOULD SAY IN THIS AREA, NEW CONSTRUCTION TOWNHOMES ARE PRETTY RARE. AND BUT I THINK THERE'S VALUE IN HAVING DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPES IN NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE IT BRINGS DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IN THESE AREAS WHERE THE HOUSING STOCK IS OLDER, GENERALLY, PEOPLE MOVE THERE WHEN THEY'RE YOUNGER, THEY HAVE FAMILIES, THEY HAVE CHILDREN. THE CHILDREN LEAVE AND THE PARENTS STAY, AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS GENERALLY GET OLDER. WHEN YOU BRING TOWNHOMES IN, IT ACTUALLY INTRODUCES YOUNGER FAMILIES, YOUNGER PEOPLE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THEY TEND TO CYCLE THROUGH YOUNGER. AND I COULD APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT DRIVEWAYS. WE, WE THIS THERE'S A QUARTER OF A PARKING STALL, GUEST PARKING STALL FOR EVERY UNIT ON THIS PROPERTY. WE'VE DEVELOPED THOUSANDS OF TOWNHOMES OVER THE OVER THE DECADES. AND IF WE COULD PROVIDE DRIVEWAYS ON EVERY TOWNHOME, WE WOULD BECAUSE IT'D BE AWESOME. BUT THE REALITY, THE CHALLENGE THAT EVERY CITY IS FACING, IS TRYING TO PROVIDE SOMETHING THAT'S AFFORDABLE AND AVAILABLE TO YOU.

AND IF WE GIVE THEM EVERYTHING THAT IS TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY HOME, THEY ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO ACTUALLY OBTAIN THE UNIT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IF YOU HAVE A IF YOU HAVE A CHALLENGE WITH PRICE, YOU HAVE TO COMPROMISE ON SOME THINGS. AND FOR ME, LOSING A DRIVEWAY ACTUALLY ISN'T MUCH OF A COMPROMISE. IT'S NOT IDEAL. YOU'LL HAVE TO PARK, STORE STUFF IN A GARAGE, MAYBE PUT SHELVES IN THE HANGING FROM THE CEILING OR SOMETHING. BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE WE'VE DEALT WITH. USUALLY WE DEAL WITH IT WITH A DECLARATION. WE'LL INCLUDE THE CARS THAT PEOPLE CAN'T USE THEIR GARAGES AND STORAGE IN THIS CASE. WELL, WE HAVEN'T DEVELOPED CARS HERE YET, BUT WE WOULD. IT'S JUST STANDARD LANGUAGE IN OUR DECLARATION. SO THE PROBLEMS YOU'RE ENCOUNTERING ARE NOT UNCOMMON. BUT IF YOU PLAN FOR IT CORRECTLY AND YOU ADDRESS IT IN THE DECLARATION, YOU HAVE A GOOD MANAGEMENT COMPANY STAYS ON TOP OF THINGS. THEY CAN BE MANAGED. WILL THEY BE IDEAL? NO. BE PERFECT AND MAYBE ISSUES.

BUT IT'S JUST A IT'S JUST A REALITY OF TRYING TO DEVELOP A PRODUCT THAT'S OBTAINABLE FOR PEOPLE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. WHAT DO YOU DO IN YOUR DECLARATION ABOUT THE EXTRA SPACE? THE GUEST SPACE? HOW DO YOU PUT THAT IN THERE? USUALLY IT'S GUEST PARKING.

PEOPLE CAN'T PARK THEIR CARS OUT THERE OVERNIGHT. GUEST PARKING. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF IT'S A GUEST OR NOT? I MEAN, PEOPLE DON'T REGISTER THEIR CAR WITH YOU. I THAT'S A THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. YEAH. GO AHEAD. SO I ACTUALLY LIVE IN A GABA TOWN TOWN AND I REQUIRED UNDER MY NO, I'M RENTING, BUT THIS COULD STILL BE AN HOA THING. I'M REQUIRED TO PARK IN MY GARAGE. YEAH. IF I HAVE SOMEBODY OVERNIGHT THERE HAVE PASSES THAT THEY HAVE TO DO IT EVERY NIGHT. THERE'S ALWAYS TONS OF PARKING BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT. LIKE I'VE HEARD PEOPLE YELLING AT EACH OTHER BECAUSE THEY FORGOT TO PASS IN THE CAR AND YEAH, BUT I'M SORRY.

SO THAT THAT'S HOW IT'S HANDLED THERE. IT'S HEAVILY ENFORCED. AND IF YOU WANT TO, I HAVE

[01:20:03]

AND I'M A SINGLE PERSON. SO TO YOUR POINT ABOUT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD IT, LIKE I CAN'T AFFORD A HOUSE AND I MAKE GOOD MONEY. YEAH. AND IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING. SO TO HAVE MORE HOMES THAT ARE TARGETED TOWARDS PEOPLE WHO ARE SINGLE OR WHO CAN'T COME UP WITH AN 80 TO $100,000 DOWN PAYMENT ON A TRADITIONAL FAMILY HOME IS IDEAL. AND THIS IS NOT NOTHING AGAINST WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I JUST WANT TO GIVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE IT THIS KIND OF AND I AGREE THERE IS IT IS HIGHER DENSITY THAN I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE. BUT I ALSO SEE A LOT OF POSITIVES TO IT BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST CAN'T AFFORD HOMES NOW, RIGHT NOW. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I DON'T THINK HE'S. NOTHING'S AFFORDABLE, HONESTLY, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD SOMETHING YOU HAVE. WE'RE TRYING TO GET IN THE IN THE UPPER 400. SO I WOULD CHALLENGE A COUPLE ASSUMPTIONS TO THE 22 FOOT DRIVEWAY, I THINK IS A BIG DEAL WHEN IT'S NEXT TO A SIDEWALK, ON A STREET OR IN FRONT OF A HOUSE OR A TRADITIONAL HOME SETBACK WHEN IT'S ALLEY LOADED, IT'S IT'S A DIFFERENT ANIMAL. TOTALLY. YOU'RE NOT IT'S NOT A SETBACK FROM A SIDEWALK. IT'S A SETBACK FROM AN ALLEY THAT HOPEFULLY YOU'RE NOT WALKING TOO MUCH ANYWAY. IS THERE A PLAN FOR FENCING BETWEEN THE TOWNHOME AND THE RETAIL PARKING LOT THERE? YEAH, WE'LL FENCE IT. THERE'S A LINE IN THERE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I JUST I JUST DON'T HAVE THIS PICTURE IN MY. WE HAVE IT RIGHT NOW, RIGHT FOR THE, FOR THE MOST PART, I LIKE THIS. SO WHEN YOU CAME WITH YOUR PREVIOUS PLANS, I SAID, SHOW ME HOW YOU MAKE IT WORK. YOU KNOW, WE YEAH, WE'VE GOT A ZONE FOR NINE MINUTES WORTH OF UTILITY. SHOW ME HOW YOU MAKE ANY. YOU DID. YOU GAVE ME THE UTILITY LETTER AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS. AND WE WERE MEETING THIS AND THE SEWERS CAN HANDLE IT. AND YEAH, SURE, MAYBE SOMETHING BETTER MIGHT COME DOWN THE ROAD, BUT I, I DON'T GET TO COMPARE WHETHER I WANT THIS OR SOME NEBULOUS FUTURE DEVELOPMENT THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE BETTER. I'M NOT SAYING I CAN CHOOSE THAT AREAS I KNOW, I MEAN, I MEAN ANYWHERE AS FAR AS THE CAPACITY GOES, 40 EXTRA YEARS WORTH OF SEWER CAPACITY. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO BE USED UP BY SOMETHING BETTER SOMEWHERE ELSE, OR IF IT'S GOING TO BE USED UP BY THIS, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. THE FUTURE NEBULOUS IS I DON'T LIKE THIS. SO I THINK THE NEXT THING THAT COMES DOWN MIGHT BE BETTER, EVEN IF IT'S NOT HERE, EVEN IF IT'S SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT IT'S USING THAT CAPACITY. I CAN'T COMPARE THIS APPLICATION TO A NON APPLICATION. THERE'S NOTHING THERE. THIS I LIKE THE PARKING THAT YOU HAVE BETWEEN THE BLUE ONES AND THE YELLOW ONES. WE'VE GOT AMPLE PARKING THERE. I THINK EVEN IF PEOPLE DO HAVE STUFF THEIR GARAGES, THEY END UP PARKING THERE OVERNIGHT. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE REALLY HURT BY THE WAY I PARKED MY CARS IN MY GARAGE. I HAVE NO PROBLEM. I GUESS I JUST DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH STOCK. ACTUALLY, WHAT I HAVE IS A LOT OF KIDS WHO HAVE MOVED OUT, SO I HAVE SPARE BEDROOMS. YEAH. BUT AGAIN, THE THE DRIVEWAYS, THE DRIVEWAYS ARE ARE FINE. EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO PUT 22 DRIVEWAYS, YOU COULD YOU JUST TAKE OUT TWO FEET OF FRONT LAWN ON THOSE TOWNHOMES? THE. THE ONLY THING YOU HEAR THAT I SEE THAT I WOULD I WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY, BUT AGAIN, I'M NOT BUYING ONE OF THESE TOWNHOMES. SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IS THE ONES ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BLUE ONES ACTUALLY BOTH. ALL THE UNITS THAT FACE TO THE WEST FACE THE BACK OF THE STORE.

YEAH, I WOULD ROTATE THOSE SO THAT THEY FACE NORTH AND SOUTH INSTEAD OF EAST AND WEST. OH, JUST SO THEY'RE FACING EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF FACING THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, FACES THE BACK OF THE STORE INSTEAD OF WAKING UP IN THE MORNING GOING, OH, I'M GOING TO HAVE MY COFFEE OUT ON MY PORCH AND GO LOOK AT THE SEMI TRUCKS UNLOADING AT MACY'S. YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. YEAH. SO THAT'S, THAT'S AND THAT'S JUST A PREFERENCE THING. AGAIN, I'M NOT BUYING THAT HOUSE. SO I DON'T CARE IF SOMEBODY BUYS THAT HOUSE. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT AND THEY'LL PROBABLY GET A DISCOUNT ON THE PROPERTY. YEAH. AREN'T YOU GOING TO LOOK AT THE BUSINESS TO THE NORTH. YEAH. BUT THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT THE LOADING DOCK.

BUT THEY COULD FACE IT INTO EACH OTHER MAYBE. AND YOU'VE GOT SOME FENCING IN BETWEEN TO YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST TWEAKING. BUT AS FAR AS NUMBER OF UNITS, I'M MORE OR LESS OKAY WITH YOUR

[01:25:04]

OVER THE PAST DECADE THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED, I KEEP HEARING THERE'S A HOUSING SHORTAGE. SO I GOT TO BUILD THIS MONEY HERE. I GUARANTEE YOU, YOU GUYS AREN'T HERE TODAY BECAUSE THERE'S A HOUSING SHORTAGE. YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BUILD HOMES AND MAKE MONEY.

IT'S A BUSINESS, I GET IT. YEAH. YOU NEED TO BUILD AS MANY HOMES AS YOU CAN AND MAKE ENOUGH PROFIT. WE GET IT. HOWEVER, IVORY, WHO BUILDS TONS OF HOMES JUST DOWN THE STREET HERE, BUILT 24 UNIT HOUSING IN THE SAME KIND OF AREA HERE. AND I'M GUESSING THEY MADE MONEY OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT. SO I THINK THE THING YOU'VE BEEN HEARING FROM US BEFORE AND TODAY IS 50 IS TOO MUCH. IS THERE A 30 UNIT HOUSING UNIT? I WOULD EVEN SAY, IF YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO PUT IN THE RETAIL, I'D BE FINE WITH THAT. I JUST THINK 50 IS GOING TO BE WAY TOO MUCH IN THIS AREA. I DON'T WORK ON YOUR SIDE. I DON'T DO THE NUMBERS. I DON'T KNOW WHY I CAN DO 30 AND YOU GUYS NEED TO DO 50. THAT'S NOT MY THING THERE. BUT MY THING IS 50 IS JUST WAY TOO MUCH. AND SO THAT'S WHERE I STAND. I DON'T HATE WHAT YOU HAVE HERE. I JUST THINK THROWING 50 UNITS IN THERE AND I STILL NOT A FAN OF THE THE DRIVEWAY GOING INTO THE BACK OF MACY'S. I DON'T KNOW LEGAL. CAN YOU EVEN DO THAT? CAN YOU TAKE THAT? CAN YOU TAKE IT SAYS IN THE PACKET THEY NEED TO GET AN EASEMENT. OKAY. OUR SELLER OWNS THE. YEAH I UNDERSTAND THAT. I THINK THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET AN EASEMENT. THAT'S RIGHT. THEY HAVE TO ASK THEIR OTHER HAND.

SO I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAILS OF, YOU KNOW, YOUR NUMBERS AND HOW MUCH YOU NEED TO SELL AND WHAT YOUR WHAT YOUR PROFIT IS, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M HERE FOR. BUT I THINK WE'VE SAID MANY TIMES 50 IS JUST NOT GOING TO WORK. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT.

THANK YOU. AND LIKE I SAID, I, I DIDN'T GET RID OF THE RETAIL BECAUSE I GET THE RETAIL IS HARD. I'VE BEEN ON THIS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT RETAIL ANYWHERE HAS BEEN HARD TO BRING STUFF IN UNLESS YOU'RE IN A BIG RETAIL AREA, LIKE OUT, OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN VIEW CORRIDOR WHERE THE, THE TRADER JOE'S. SO TRADER JOE'S, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE THE RETAIL STAY STEAKHOUSE.

I THINK YOU COULD LIVE WITHOUT RETAIL RIGHT THERE. THERE HASN'T BEEN ONE. AND YOU HAVE PLACES ACROSS THE STREET THAT ARE HALF EMPTY, BUT THEY AREN'T FULL. SO I DON'T THINK THEY NEED RETAIL AT THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION. MAYBE NOT. OF COURSE THEY DON'T NEED HOMES THERE EITHER. IF YOU COULD GET IT DOWN TO A MORE REASONABLE NUMBER OF HOMES, I'D BE WILLING TO LET YOU DROP THE RETAIL. I DON'T WANT THEM TO BUILD A BUILDING AND HAVE TO BE HALF EMPTY, LIKE THE ONE DOWN THE STREET IS. SO ON THE 17TH THERE'S ONE DOWN THE STREET, BUT THEY BUILT IT. HALF OF THE STOREFRONTS ARE EMPTY LIKE CATTLE RANCH. NO, I'M TALKING LIKE DOWN THE STREET FROM 2200. THERE'S A MULTI SHOP. OH YEAH. BUT THOSE ARE ALL. SO YOU'RE JUST WANTING MORE LIKE GREEN SPACE. IF THERE'S FEWER UNITS, WANT MORE SPACE. I THINK WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT THE RETAIL. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THE RETAIL THERE. YEAH. BUT I JUST DON'T WANT 50 UNITS THERE. SO IF YOU GET RID OF 20 UNITS AND THE RETAIL THEN JUST SPREADS OUT A LITTLE BIT, I THINK COTTAGE HOMES OR SOMETHING. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY ACROSS THE CANAL, IT'S NOT GONNA BE THAT BIG. I MEAN, YOU GOT WHAT, TEN HOMES IN THE SAME AREA. SO WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT DEMANDING THAT YOU BE EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE ACROSS THE CANAL, BUT STILL.

3035 SO I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE AREAS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY, 1500 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE FAMILY COTTAGE HOMES, AND YOU'VE GOT MAYBE 20 OR 30 IN THERE. THAT'D BE A LOT MORE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OR DIDN'T WE JUST APPROVE ONE DOWN BY 90 SOUTH? THAT WAS BUILT A WHILE AGO. THEY STILL THEY WERE STILL SMALL HOMES LIKE THIS, BUT THEY LIKE DRIVEWAYS. IT'S JUST RIGHT BEHIND THE LIKE THE HOME DEPOT AND STUFF. I'LL GET THE ADDRESS OF THOSE ONES TOO. AND IT'S HARD BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE COUNCIL THAT

[01:30:02]

PEOPLE LOST JOBS AND NEEDED TO SELL THEIR DIDN'T SELL. BUT THEY COULDN'T. AND IT BECAME.

SO WHEN YOU TAKE AWAY THE BUNDLE OF RIGHTS OF PROPERTY, ONE OF WHICH IS BUILT ON, IT BECOMES REALLY CHALLENGING AND PROBLEMATIC. WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT. WE'RE INTERESTED. SO WE DON'T WANT TO RESTRICT THE RIGHTS OF. I LIKE THIS PLAN. I. IT'S EXTREMELY REMINISCENT OF WHERE I LIVE. LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY, PLOPPED IN THE OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT NEXT TO A GROCERY STORE, RIGHT ALONGSIDE A VERY HISTORIC AND IT'S A GREAT LIFE FOR A LONG TIME. AND I DON'T SEE US EVER MOVING THIS. IT'S IT HAS SO MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE MORE ESTABLISHED FAMILIES. THEY LOVE TO SEE OUR KIDS. WE HAVE TEENAGERS TO BABYSIT. WE CAN WALK THEM POSITIONS. IT'S JUST REALLY NICE. AND I'D RATHER HAVE DENSITY LIKE THIS IN IN THAT PART OF TOWN THAN WAY OUT WEST. SO SO I THINK I'D BE OPEN TO DIFFERENT THINGS WITH RETAIL.

AND I'VE BEEN INTERESTED TO HEAR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS OPINIONS ABOUT THAT, BUT I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE ALLEY DRIVEWAYS. I ALSO DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY.

IT'S NOT SO BAD. I JUST PERSONALLY DON'T SEE ANY ISSUES I LIKE. I THINK IT'D BE REALLY NICE. SUGGESTION I WOULD MAKE ON MINE IS A LITTLE LESS. FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU GOT RID OF THOSE FOUR THAT ARE THE FURTHEST NORTH, SLID THINGS DOWN AND THEN ADD A LITTLE AREA FOR A LITTLE PARK KIND OF THING. YOU MENTIONED YOU MENTIONED HAVING WE WANT YOUNG FAMILIES TO BE THERE. OH, IF I HAD KIDS, NO WAY WOULD I LIVE. MY ONLY PLACE MY KID CAN PLAY IS THE DUMPSTER AREA OF THE SMITHS IS NOT ATTRACTIVE TO ME. I THINK MAYBE. SORRY. MAYBE. WHEN WE TALKED BEFORE, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A LITTLE PLAYGROUND. YEAH. NO, I'M GOING TO WALK THEM ALL THE WAY TO SMITH'S, I CAN PLAY IN THERE. THERE'S MY TOT LOT. YEAH, I CAN

[01:35:05]

PLEASE JUST BE HONEST WITH US AND TELL US WE'RE HERE TO TRY TO MAKE MONEY LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT MORE THAN ANYTHING. BUT ALSO FOR YOU TO TELL ME THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HERE FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE WITH SMALL FAMILIES, THAT IS NOT FOR ANY SMALL FAMILY. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WITHOUT ANY LITTLE PLAYGROUND KIND OF THING. SO A PLAYGROUND WOULD BE REALLY NICE. I THINK WE DISCUSSED THAT BEFORE. YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK I JUST DIDN'T CONVEY THAT TO THEM BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS DEFINITELY ONE OF THE THINGS WE DISCUSSED. AND NOT TO PUT IT ON THE ROAD SO MUCH AS TO PUT IT BETWEEN A COUPLE OF BUILDINGS TO CREATE A BIG, SAFE SPOT. THAT WOULD BE BETTER. THAT WOULD BE REALLY, OF COURSE, THE RETAIL IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE A DAYCARE ANYWAY, SO THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. BUT YOU NEED SOMEWHERE TO GO ON THE WEEKEND. IF THAT WAS A DAYCARE, I WOULD, THAT WOULD BE SO THAT THAT'S JUST MY MAIN THOUGHT. I, I DO THINK IT'S, I DO THINK IT'S TOO MUCH, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN WANT TO REALLY GO AFTER THAT YOUNG FAMILY, THEN THERE NEEDS TO BE AN AMENITY FOR THEM TO, TO WANT TO BE THERE. SO. THANK YOU. REALLY, THEY DON'T JUST HAND OUT CHAIR. AND WE DID. THEY DO. SORRY. WE TALK ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT THE ROADWAY. I THINK YOU YEAH. THE ROAD IS THAT A UDOT ENGINEER HERE. AND HE COULD PROBABLY ANSWER LIKE UTILITIES AND ROAD ACCESS THINGS BECAUSE HE'S THE SPECIALIST ON THAT THAT THAT. YEAH, YOU CAN TAKE MY SEAT OR YOU CAN SIT THERE. HE'S NOT THERE. PLEASE GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE. CONSULTANT.

SO YEAH, I THINK JUST, YOU KNOW, WITH WORKING WITH UDOT SPACING, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF WEIRD, BUT IT IS LIKE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A FAST MOVEMENT. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE A TRAFFIC PROBLEM IN OR OUT. I THIS IS CONCEPTUAL. SO AS FAR AS THAT GOES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK WITH UDOT TO NAIL THAT DOWN. BUT I THINK THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LINE UP WITH THE STREET ACROSS THERE IS THAT'S WHAT IT IS. YEAH. THERE'S AN EXISTING CURB CUT RIGHT THERE.

YEAH. IT'S MOSTLY THAT THAT'S WHY WE PUT IT THERE. IT'S THE SIMPLEST PATH RIGHT NOW, LIKE WHERE THE, THE PIZZA PLACE IS. IT'S GOT TO LINE UP WITH THAT STREET RIGHT ACROSS FROM SOME DEGREE. IT'S ON A ROAD LIKE THIS, NOT MUCH, BUT OKAY. AND THESE ARE LIKE MORE LIKE COMMERCIAL ACCESS. BUT YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY RIGHT NOW JUST TAKING ADVANTAGE OF WHAT WAS ALREADY THERE. IDEALLY IT WOULD BE STRAIGHT, BUT WE GET APPROVAL FROM UTAH. WE'RE NOT CONFIDENT THAT CAN. SEPARATION COULD BE MORE MAYBE LESS. YEAH, THEY'RE ON BOARD. THEN WE WOULD WE WOULD STRAIGHTEN THE SLIDING SCALE. SURE. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS THIS IS JUST FOR US MOSTLY IS IF YOU SAY 50 IS TOO MANY, BUT 30 IS OKAY, HAVE A REASONABLE RIGHT.

I MEAN, IT SOUNDS BETTER. IT'S FEWER. THE REASON THAT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE WATER AND IT'S TOO HIGH DENSITY. ISN'T THAT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON? DON'T HAVE WATER FOR 30 EITHER. WE HAVE WATER FOR 9.6. SO THEY EITHER GOT TO COME UP WITH 20 ON THEIR OWN, OR THEY GOT TO COME UP WITH 40 ON THEIR OWN. OKAY, BUT YOU WERE TELLING ME HAVE A GOOD REASON. I THOUGHT I HAD SOME GOOD REASONS, SO. WELL, BASICALLY. WELL, YEAH, I JUST BASICALLY YOUR OPINION IS YOUR REASONS ARE WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS DON'T JUST SAY THIS NUMBER IS BETTER THAN THIS NUMBER. AND I SAID, NO, I SAY THAT YOU DIDN'T. OKAY, WELL, DON'T BE SAYING, WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE HAVEN'T REASON. I'M JUST SAYING THAT IF WE JUST THROW OUT RANDOM NUMBERS, WE'RE BEING ARBITRARY AND IT'S NOT. IT'S ONE OF MY REASONS FOR A LITTLE LESS IS JUST THAT, YOU KNOW, LEAVING IN THE MORNING THING OF ALL OF THOSE CARS ALL GOING TO GET OUT THAT ONE AREA, THEY WON'T ALL BE. THEY WON'T ALL LEAVE AT ONCE. THEY MIGHT. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. TO GO BY YOUR LOGIC, YOU GIVE US ALL THE TIME. WE DON'T KNOW THAT. SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S KIND OF BECOMES A LITTLE BIT OF A A LITTLE THING. IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT OF A BOTTLENECK.

I'VE SEEN THAT IN SOME SMALLER ONES ARE STUCK TO ALL KIND OF BACK OUT. THEY CAN, THEY CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER. ANYWAY, I THINK YOU'VE HEARD MOST OF OUR FEEDBACK. ANY OTHER THINGS THAT NEED TO COME? YES. ASK A QUESTION. JUST TO CLARIFY AND MAYBE I DON'T KNOW IF THESE GUYS CARE OR NOT, BUT I WOULD BE INTERESTED. THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT THE RETAIL, AND I

[01:40:02]

OKAY. AND NOW WE'RE TURNING THAT JUST LIKE THAT. AND IT SAID, AND IT SCREWS THE WHOLE THING UP. I PERSONALLY WANT RETAIL THERE OR COMMERCIAL. I STILL WANT THE COMMERCIAL AND RETAIL. THE GREAT THING ABOUT IT DOESN'T IT TAKES UP MORE SPACE AND USES LESS WATER. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH YEAH. I'M IN FAVOR OF I LIKE KEEPING THE RETAIL. YEAH. SO I THINK WE MENTIONED THAT TO THE COUNCIL AS WELL THAT WE WERE PUTTING RETAIL ON 7800. SO. WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.

OKAY, JUST SOME CLARIFICATION. SO WE'VE TALKED A LOT OF A LOT OF OPTIONS. I HEARD REDUCED THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL UNITS. APPLICANT HAS HEARD THAT. WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OPEN SPACE OR SOME AMENITIES. CHAIR, WAS THAT DOWN IN THE SOUTHEAST CORNER? IS THAT IT COULD BE WHERE THEY WANT IT? I THINK THEY REDUCED THE NUMBER OF I THINK THOSE FOUR UNITS, THOSE FOUR UNITS THAT ARE UP THERE, AND THOSE WERE, YOU KNOW, EITHER GOT OR TAKE FOUR OUT OF THE MIDDLE, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHERE IN THERE. I JUST THINK YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE CLOSE TO 78. YEAH. BUT YEAH, I WAS JUST SAYING, YOU CAN, YOU CAN LOSE FOUR AND SLIDE THE OTHERS DOWN A LITTLE BIT OR, OR JUST NOT HAVE THAT LITTLE ALLEYWAY OR THAT LITTLE SIDEWALK AREA THERE. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. ALL ALONG THE EAST BENCH. YEAH, WE HEAR THAT. SO THE BIGGER PICTURE THAT MY STAFF AND I HAVE TO CONSIDER IS A BROADER POLICY DISCUSSION. OUR ZONING ORDINANCE DOES NOT ALLOW THIS. RIGHT. WE HAVE THE BALANCED HOUSING ORDINANCE. WOULD THE COUNCIL BE OKAY FOR STAFF IN CONJUNCTION WITH AN APPLICATION LIKE THIS, TO LOOK AT TOWNHOMES BEING BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE BALANCED HOUSING ORDINANCE OR SELECTIVELY AS AN INFILL PIECE OR, YOU KNOW, TEN ACRES OR LESS? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL WANTS US TO LOOK AT? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR ORDINANCE DOES NOT ALLOW THIS. WE DON'T HAVE THE ZONING TOOL TO APPROVE THIS.

SO I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF OPTIONS IN OUR TOOL SET. I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE. THE THING THAT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR IT IS THAT IT'S IT'S ATTACHED HOUSING. SO THAT'S JUST NOT ALLOWED IN THIS AREA. CORRECT. SO THE COUNCIL HAS SAID, HEY, REZONE THINGS ALL THE TIME, RIGHT? WE HAVE A LOT OF EXCEPTIONS THAT ALLOW FOR FOR HIGHER DENSITY ATTACHED HOUSING NEXT TO TRACK STATIONS NEAR TRANSIT OR TRANSPORTATION CORRIDORS. THIS DOESN'T MEET ONE OF OUR CRITERIA. RIGHT? RIGHT. OKAY. SO THE QUESTION IS, HEY, ARE WE DONE WITH INCLUDING TOWNHOMES AS A BROAD CATEGORY OF HOUSING, OR DO YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT ANOTHER SELECTIVE? EXEMPTION IS WHAT OUR CODE CALLS IT FOR OUR SMALLER INFILL, SMALLER BEING TEN ACRES OR LESS OR WHATEVER.

WHAT IS THE ACREAGE HERE? TEN ACRES. SORRY, WHAT IS 11.44 RIGHT THERE. RIGHT. BUT IF WE EXCLUDE THE THE COMMERCIAL. RIGHT. ANYWAY, THAT'S THE QUESTION I'VE GOT FOR, FOR MY STAFF AND I, BECAUSE IF THERE'S ENOUGH TO MODIFY THIS PLAN TO MOVE FORWARD, OKAY, BUT THERE IS NO VEHICLE TO TAKE IT FORWARD. RIGHT? SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. I PREFER

[01:45:01]

[01:50:06]

HOW DO WE EVEN ALLOW. SCOTT SCOTT HAS BROUGHT IT UP. YEAH. THE LAST COUNCIL MET WITH THE CHAIRMAN AND EVERYONE SAID, WELL, WE JUST CHANGE. THAT'S WHAT WE DO UNTIL THE CITY ATTORNEY TO FIGURE IT OUT AND WE'LL JUST CHANGE IT. AND SO WE WENT WITH THAT FOR NOW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT. SO THAT RESULTS. I THINK WHAT WE WOULD PROBABLY DO IS WORK WITH STAFF AND PROPOSE A TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCES. SO THERE WAS AN ORDINANCE, ZONING ORDINANCE THAT WOULD ALLOW SOME OF THE USE. I WOULD AGREE THAT IF WE ARE TO AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IT. WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE CITY, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST THIS PROPERTY. I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE JESSICA AN ANSWER, THOUGH.

THE QUESTION WAS 50, RIGHT? OR WHO ASKED THAT? IT WAS TEN. SORRY. WE DON'T HAVE A REALLY GOOD. SO WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO KENT. WE DIDN'T HAVE AN ANSWER. I UNDERSTAND LIKE IF THEY CAME IN AND WE HAD THIS AMAZING. I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT AMAZING, BUT WE'RE LIKE, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. BUT THEN. OH JUST KIDDING. SO I I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF IT IN MY HEAD, BUT I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THIS IS GOVERNMENT. THAT IS PART OF IT. THAT'S WHY THEY COME HERE WITH THE BEST THEY CAN AND WHY COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB SAID, DON'T LEAVE STUFF BACK AT THE OFFICE, BECAUSE THAT IS THE STUFF WE'RE TRYING TO DECIDE. I'M. I'M 50 TOO MUCH JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT'S LAID OUT. NOW I WANT TO SEE SOMETHING THAT'S AN AMENITY. IF YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME THIS IS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE STARTING AND BUYING THEIR FIRST HOME, EITHER YOU'RE LYING OR YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TRYING TO START THEIR OWN. AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. AND I KNOW YOU'RE NOT LYING. I'M JUST I'M JUST SAYING NONE OF THAT THERE TELLS ME SOMEONE'S LOOKING TO HAVE TWO YEAR OLD, THREE YEAR OLD KIND OF KIDS LIVING THERE. AND THAT'S JUST AN HONEST OPINION. NOT TO BE DISPARAGING IN ANY WAY. RECORDED THREE YEARS IN THE BUSINESS. I HAVEN'T BEEN ACCUSED OF LYING YET. WELL, I'M THE ONE WHO MAKES THE DECISIONS, SO. AND I'M JUST SAID I'M NOT CALLING YOU A LIAR. I SAID IT'S EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER, AND I'M SAYING YOU'RE NOT LYING.

YOU JUST DIDN'T MAKE SOMETHING FOR THE GROUP YOU SAID YOU MADE IT FOR. THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH? YES. THANK YOU. YES. YEAH, I DON'T WHY WOULD I NOT BE HONEST WITH YOU? NO, I APPRECIATE IT. SO PERSONAL THERE FOR A SECOND. IT'S GOOD. YOU'RE GOOD. SO

[01:55:03]

COUNCIL MEMBER JACOB IS RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS, BUT I ALSO DON'T NEED TO ENTITLE EVERY SQUARE INCH OF WEST JORDAN TODAY. AND THEN IN THE FUTURE, THERE AREN'T AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES AND. AND FOR ME, 50 IS TOO MUCH. THE EXISTING RESIDENTS WERE OKAY WITH SOME, BUT NOT A TON. AND I JUST THINK THAT'S A LOT OF FAMILIES, A LOT OF EVEN IF IT'S JUST SINGLE PEOPLE, THAT'S 50 VEHICLES. THAT'S 50 OF EVERYTHING. SINGLE. OKAY. SO EVEN IF IT'S A SINGLE. YEAH, EVEN IF THEY'RE JUST A SINGLE PERSON LIVING THERE, THAT'S JUST A LOT FOR THAT AREA. IT'S NOT A VERY BIG SPACE. I GO BACK ALL THE TIME TO THAT HIGH SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGY CLASS WITH THE MICE AND THE MAZE, AND THE MORE MICE AND THE WORSE IT GETS.

AND I JUST THINK PEOPLE NEED SOME SPACE TOO. AND IF I REALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD SOLVE OUR HOUSING CRISIS OR WOULD BE AFFORDABLE, BUT MY EXPERIENCE HAS TOLD ME IT DOESN'T. AND MY EXPERIENCE HAS SHOWN ME THAT THESE INFILL PROJECTS, IF THEY'RE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON SMALL LOTS, THEY SELL. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING ALL THAT MONEY, BUT I WATCH THEM SELL. THERE'S A THING ON 2200 THAT THEY PUT IN, AND THE PEOPLE THERE WERE HAPPY. THEY LIKED THOSE HOUSES AND IT'S BUILT IN THE MIDDLE. SO I KNOW THEY SELL TO I KNOW FOR ME ONE MORE QUESTION ABOUT THAT. WHAT IS THE ADT FOR TOWNHOME VERSUS COMMERCIAL RETAIL? I'M NOT I'M NOT A TRANSPORTATION TRANSPORTATION GUY, BUT IT'S IT'S DEFINITELY LESS. WELL, IT'S JUST ALTERNATING. SO LIKE RETAIL AND TOWNHOMES HIT A DIFFERENT SIZE. TOWNHOMES IS LESS THAN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND TOWNHOME AND APARTMENTS IS LESS THAN BOTH. OBVIOUSLY WITH APARTMENTS, YOU HAVE MORE UNITS, TOWNHOMES, YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE UNITS. BUT AS FAR AS TRAFFIC GOES, YOU DO 30 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES OR 50 TOWNHOMES.

IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT THE SAME AS FAR AS TRAFFIC. WE WILL GO THROUGH THE ANALYSIS AND DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT I THINK WE HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SO THE ARGUMENT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT IS, HEY, WE'RE PROPOSING SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BRING LESS TRAFFIC THAN WHAT IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED FOR. GOT IT. YES. YES. YES. CORRECT. THIS IS A BIG BOX THAT WAS IN THERE.

YEAH. THAT'S ON THE COMMERCIAL, RIGHT? THAT'S ON THE COMMERCIAL. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COMMERCIAL WOULD BE IF IT IF IT WAS A DUTCH BROS ON STICKER DAY. WHO. DO WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY BRING THIS BACK FOR ANOTHER ANOTHER LITTLE MEETING TO SEE IF IT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO. ARE YOU GUYS WILLING TO COME BACK WITH A LOWER UNIT COUNT? YES. INFILL ORDINANCE MIGHT WORK. MAYBE. YOU THINK. LOOK AT IT AGAIN. I'M TRYING TO. I'M READING THROUGH IT. I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE PART THAT IT DOESN'T BOX, IT DOESN'T CHECK.

AND I'M NOT FINDING IT. BUT THAT'S JUST MY QUICK LOOK AT IT. SO I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE THEM A NUMBER TO AT LEAST SHOOT FOR IT. I KNOW WE HAVE BEFORE. I DON'T HAVE A REASON. NO MORE THAN 75. I DON'T LIKE THROWING OUT A NUMBER BECAUSE I SAY YOU BRING ME SOMETHING THAT WORKS AND THAT 50 DOESN'T WORK. SO I'M NOT SAYING 50 DOESN'T WORK. WELL, YOU ARE RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I DON'T WANT TO BE ARBITRARY AND JUST COME UP WITH A NUMBER, BECAUSE I THINK IT SOUNDS BETTER THAN ANOTHER NUMBER. I JUST GAVE MY REASON BECAUSE I WANT A PLACE FOR THAT SPACE FOR THAT'S, THAT'S MY, WHICH MEANS 4 OR 5 TAKEN OUT TO CREATE THAT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REMOVE SOME UNITS. YEAH, YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY I THINK FOR SCOTT, I LIKE WHAT REALLY WHAT COUNCILWOMAN HARRIS SAID IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT MORE TOWNHOMES IN THESE LOCATIONS, IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE HAS TO BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CODE. AND RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN'T RIGHT NOW YOU CAN'T. THIS. THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT IS SUGGESTS IT TO ME THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION READILY AVAILABLE. AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE LIKE THE TRANSPORTATION OVERLAY ZONES THAT DO ALLOW THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. WE DO LIVE IN A CAR CENTRIC SOCIETY, I HATE IT, BUT IT'S REALITY.

[02:00:05]

NOBODY'S DOING THIS TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE. THAT'S RIGHT. HOW ABOUT A COMMITMENT IF THAT WILL COME WITH IT? THAT HAS LESS UNITS AND HAS A TOT LOT, THEY CAN START TALKING ABOUT THAT COMMON GROUND. WITH THAT, WELL, WE'LL MAKE SURE SOMETHING GETS PUT ON THE BOOKS EARLY TO TALK ABOUT THIS. ALL RIGHT. YOUR YOUR NEW CHAIRPERSON IS ALREADY PUTTING A LIST TOGETHER. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. AND AGAIN, SORRY IF IT SOUNDED LIKE I WAS CALLING YOU A LIAR. I WAS ONLY TRYING TO JUST MAKE A POINT THAT YOU WEREN'T. MY MOM DID. YOU SAID YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS. ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYTHING ELSE? NO. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR CANDIDNESS. IT WAS HELPFUL. WE TRY TO BE CANDID. ALL RIGHT. SO FAR WE'RE AVERAGING AN HOUR OF THINGS. SO LET'S SEE IF WE GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE MIDNIGHT. THANK YOU EVERYONE. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. MR. NASH. ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE

[c. Discussion of the Sugar Factory on the Town Creek Development]

NICE TO SEE YOU. YEAH. FOR A SECOND. OH, HEY. OR WILL YOU GRAB ME ANOTHER ONE? AND I DON'T HAVE TO STAND UP. WHY DO YOU WANT ANOTHER EMPTY CAN? BECAUSE I'M COLLECTING. IT'LL BE RICH IN THE RECYCLING. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL WAIT TILL THEY COME BACK IN. IF YOU GUYS GOT JUST A MINUTE. OKAY, OFF THE RECORD, I'M HERE TO MAKE MONEY. OFF THE RECORD, I JUST. IT IS FUNNY THAT THAT'S. YEAH, WE ALSO GET PEOPLE THAT GO. WILL YOU STOP TELLING PEOPLE THAT YOU'VE GOT 9000 UNITS READY TO BUILD? NO, BECAUSE THAT'S THE TRUTH. THANKS, RAY. THANKS. SEE YOU. NOW IT'S GONE. YEAH. AIN'T NO SUNSHINE. SEEING IT. NO SUNSHINE WHEN SHE'S GONE. IS THIS BEING RECORDED? YEP. ALL RIGHT. AIN'T NO SUNSHINE. YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST VIEWS OF THE MOUNTAINS OUT OF THIS WINDOW. THANKS FOR NOTICING. YEAH. PAST TWO HOURS, I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT

[02:05:01]

TWO OF THE CITY AND DALE BENNETT. YEAH. FIRST OF ALL, DALE BENNETT IS NOT ABLE TO.

I'M JUST GOING TO ASK WHERE I GREW SOME HAIR. YEAH. HE SAYS HE HAS A GOOD HAIRCUT, YOU KNOW.

BUT MY NAME IS BRANDON WIXOM AND I'LL BE REPRESENTING DALE TODAY. HE HAS A MEDICAL PROCEDURE, SO HE CAN'T BE HERE. BUT HE WISHES HE COULD BE HERE BECAUSE HE'S PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS PROJECT. AND I ALSO HAVE TYLER WITH ME. HOW MANY UNITS WE WANTED? LESS THAN 50.

LESS THAN 50 FOR 23. I'M TYLER MACARTHUR, I'M WITH MACARTHUR HOMES, SO WE'LL BE THE BUILDER ON THE PROJECT. SOME OF YOU GUYS KNOW JOHN GASSMAN. JOHN GASSMAN IS OUR PRESIDENT. I'M THE LAND ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. AND SO I'M JUST HERE WITH BRANDON TO HELP ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. YEAH. I GUESS TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE SUMMARY, WE WE HAVE MET SEVERAL TIMES. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH MARK AND STAFF, MET WITH THE MAYOR, ALL THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS. AND WE BELIEVE WE HAVE A PRODUCT THAT IS VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT, AND I THINK IT MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA. WHAT WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE ASKED FOR IT. ONE BIG CONCERN IN THE LAST MEETING WAS PARKING. AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY PARKS ON THE ON THE INSIDE OF THE GARAGE? AND IT WAS SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE WE PUT IT IN THE CORNERS AND WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE THAT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. I THINK MARK PROBABLY PROVIDED A COPY TO EVERYBODY. AND SO WE'RE GOING TO BE MILITANT ON THAT AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY USES THAT. AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE ADDITIONAL PARKING OR ACTUALLY OUR GUEST PARKING IS ONLY FOR GUESTS. AND WE'LL HAVE SIGNAGE UP THERE AND WE CAN MONITOR THAT. YOU KNOW, PERHAPS LIKE THAT OTHER COMPANY DID 24 HOURS A DAY. THEY NEED A PASS, WHATEVER, WHATEVER YOU GUYS WANT US TO DO, WE'RE WILLING TO DO THAT AND MAKE IT WORK. THE BIG THING ABOUT THIS ONE ON THE ER ER USE, THAT WAS A BIG TOPIC AND WE ACTUALLY LOOKED INTO THAT. WE MET WITH THE WATER WATER DEPARTMENT AND LOOKED AT, WE DID STUDIES AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS. WE'RE ACTUALLY COMING IN UNDER THE ER USE THEY'RE ABLE TO USE IN THAT AREA. I BELIEVE WE COULD USE 30 AND WE'RE ONLY ASKING FOR 23. SO THAT WILL HELP YOU GUYS OUT AND GIVE SOMETHING TO THOSE OTHER GUYS. YEAH. YOU CAN MAYBE GIVE IT TO THOSE OR SOMEBODY ELSE. WE'LL LET YOU GUYS DECIDE THAT WE'RE ALSO OVER PARKED, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING THING BECAUSE WE'RE CLOSE TO THE TRAX LINE WITHIN A HALF MILE, WE'VE TRIED TO PUT AS MUCH PARKING AS WE COULD HEAR ME. WE HAVE A PRODUCT THAT IS SIMILAR WITH THE ALLEY LOADED. WE LISTENED TO THE COUNCIL THE FIRST TIME, AND YOU GUYS WANTED DRIVEWAYS THAT WERE A LITTLE BIT BIGGER, SO WE MADE THEM TO 24FT. YOU LISTEN TO US. WE TRIED TO 22. YEAH, 22, 2324 MARK SAYING 22, 2220. MAYBE THEY WERE 20 BEFORE, BUT THEN WE INCREASED THEM TO 22. YEAH, BUT 24 IS GOOD. YEAH. BUT ARE THEY ALL 22 FOOT. NO, THEY'RE NOT ALL, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALL REQUIRED. WE'RE ALREADY OVER. PARKED IN EACH DRIVEWAY IS TWO EXTRA FOR YOU. LOOK AT THE SITE PLAN WHILE YOU'RE DISCUSSING THIS. I'D LIKE A SITE PLAN BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT LAYS OUT ON A KIND OF A FLAG LOT SHAPE, ABOUT HALF OF THE LOTS WERE ABLE TO GET THE DRIVEWAY ON. IT'S ABOUT HALF. HALF THE DRIVEWAYS AND HALF ON.

YEAH. SO HERE THIS IS OUR GUESTS ONLY PARKING HERE. AND THESE BUILDINGS WILL BE USING THAT. THE GUEST PARKING FOR THESE GUYS IS IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE. AND THEN THE CARS WILL SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO PARK THERE AND YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE CAN FIND THEM. THERE'S WAYS TO DO THAT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY PARKS THERE. WE ALSO FOR STREET PARKING. THOUGH, IT'S A PRIVATE LANE. SO THERE'LL BE NO STREET, NO STREET PARKING. YEAH, NO STREET PARKING. SO YOU'VE GOT PARKING ON SUGAR FACTORY. YOU SAID THE GUEST PARKING WOULD BE IN FRONT OF THE PERSON'S HOUSE, IN THEIR DRIVEWAY, IN THEIR DRIVEWAYS. SO THESE DRIVEWAYS. SO YOU HAVE TO GET THE THE GARAGE, WHICH IS TWO O AND THEN TWO MORE. I DIDN'T SEE THE I, THE DRIVEWAY LOOKED LIKE GRASS TO ME. YEAH. SO THIS, THIS IS CONCRETE. OKAY, I'M FOLLOWING YOU NOW. SO THOSE PARTICULAR UNITS CAN HAVE THEIR GUEST PARKING THEIR CAR. SO THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PAY A LITTLE BIT OF A PREMIUM. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO KEEP THEM ALL ATTAINABLE. HOUSING MAYBE NOT AFFORDABLE. WE WANT TO BE AROUND FOR 54, 75. SOMEBODY COULD TRY IT. BUT WE WANT TO WE WANT TO HAVE FAMILIES HERE, SINGLE WORKING PROFESSIONALS, A MIXTURE OF PEOPLE. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM EVEN THOUGH IT'S CLOSE TO TRACKS. I WALKED OVER AND IT'S

[02:10:03]

JUST MAKING SURE BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING IT VERY LOUD. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT, I APOLOGIZE. BUT HEY, ONE OTHER THING I WANT TO MENTION IS WHEN I DID MY WALK, MY SIX MINUTE WALK, I MET TWO PEOPLE ALONG THE PATH. SHELLY, CAN I SAY THEIR NAMES? SURE. SHELLY. BEVERLY. YEAH. WELL, SHE, LIKE SHE SAID SHE WAS GOING TO CONTACT YOU GUYS. I DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S CALLED ANYBODY YET. SHELLY. SHE LIVES IN THE IN THE CONDOS, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE OF THE TOWNHOMES.

YEAH. RIGHT HERE. SHE LIVES ABOUT IN THIS AREA. YEAH. SHE'S IN FAVOR OF THE PRODUCT. AND SHE ALSO HAS A SON WHO WANTS TO BUY ONE OF THE UNITS. SO SHE SAID, PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S AN EYESORE. IT'S A, IT IS A, IT'S WHO KNOWS WHAT IT IS. SQUATTERS, METH. WHO KNOWS. BUT WE WANT TO GET THAT TORE DOWN AND AND MAKE THIS A BETTER SPOT. BUT SHE'LL PROBABLY BE. I GAVE HER YOUR NUMBER, BOB, AND SHE'S IN YOUR DISTRICT. I SAID CONTACT HIM BECAUSE USUALLY ONLY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO COMPLAIN ARE THE ONES WHO CONTACT YOU GUYS.

EVERYBODY ELSE IS OKAY WITH IT. THERE'S ANOTHER GUY. HIS NAME IS ROGER. CAN'T READ MY WRITING, SALVA. AND HE'S ON THE BOARD IN THAT SAME COMMUNITY. HE'S ALSO IN FAVOR OF IT. MOST OF THEM JUST HAD QUESTIONS. THEY CAME TO THE FIRST ONE AND WE WE HAD THE THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

AND BY THE WAY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION PASSED THIS UNANIMOUSLY. WE HAD SOME DISCUSSION WITH THOSE PEOPLE. I MET WITH THEM AFTERWARDS ABOUT MAYBE USING CERTAIN TYPES OF TREE VEGETATIONS CONTROLLING IF THERE'S ANY ANY RATS OR MICE WHEN THEY TEAR STUFF DOWN, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR. AND WE SAID, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU GUYS AND FIGURE THAT OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID THAT AS SOON AS WE TORE DOWN THE PROPERTY, THEY WOULD BE INFESTED WITH WITH RODENTS, THAT HAPPENS. IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE THEY COULD. BUT YEAH, AND WE'LL WORK THROUGH IT, YOU KNOW, SET UP A LITTLE THINGS UP AROUND THE DURING CONSTRUCTION TOO. YEAH. RIGHT. AND SO WE, WE CAN WORK WITH THEM DOING THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I THINK WE'RE,

[02:15:05]

AND HE'S ACTUALLY HE'S I'VE CAME TO PEACE WITH IT. I, I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT, YOU KNOW, HE JUST HE, HE'LL PROBABLY EVENTUALLY FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GO. AND THEN THE OTHER TWO NEIGHBORS ARE INTERESTED IN SELLING THEIR PROPERTY AND POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, HAVING A SIMILAR. YEAH. YEAH. SO WE'RE PUTTING A BIG MASONRY WALL UP HERE, BY THE WAY, RIGHT HERE. BUT YOU'RE THINKING OF THE TWO. THERE'S THREE PROPERTIES. YEAH. THIS GUY AND THIS GUY WANT TO SELL AND THIS GUY DOESN'T. BUT HE MAY IN THE FUTURE. HE JUST IS UNCERTAIN. HE'S ON WHERE DO I GO. WHAT DO I DO. I SAID, HEY, I KNOW A GREAT REALTOR. I CAN TELL YOU I'M A REALTOR. YES. YOU KNOW, SOME TOWNHOMES RIGHT NEXT DOOR. YEAH. HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE TOWNHOME, BUT I KNOW, YOU KNOW, HE'LL GO. HE'LL GO SOMEWHERE OR HE CAN STAY THERE. I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. AND BASICALLY ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN WHAT IS CURRENTLY THERE, IN MY OPINION. AND I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD FEELS THAT AS WELL.

IF YOU GO AND TALK TO THEM AND ASK THEM, I THINK THEY'RE ON BOARD RIGHT NOW. KIND OF SAFETY MEASURES DO YOU HAVE WITH THE CREEK? THIS ISN'T A CREEK THAT'S EMPTY. IT'S THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. SO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT FENCING ALONG THE CREEK ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE? IT'S PROBABLY BEEN THE MOST AGONIZING QUESTION. YEAH. SO THE FENCING IT'S INTERESTING.

SO THE THE SALT LAKE COUNTY DOESN'T WANT FENCING BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE CREEK. OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY WANT SAFETY SO THAT CHILD DOESN'T DROWN ON THEIR WATCH. WE'VE AGREED TO PUT TWO FENCES ON BOTH SIDES ALONG THERE TO PROTECT IT. AND THEN THE THE BRIDGE WILL HAVE SELF-CLOSING LATCHES AS WELL. SO THE KIDS, YOU KNOW, CAN'T JUST THE YOUNGER KID CAN'T GET OVER THERE. AND WE WANTED TO DO FOUR FOOT FENCES. IT'S KIND OF A GIVE AND TAKE BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A PRETTY AREA. IT REALLY COULD BE A PRETTY AREA. WE DON'T WANT TO DO TOO BIG OF A FENCE, BUT YOU GOT TO ALSO GO WITH SAFETY. AND I BELIEVE CITY STAFF AND WHOEVER WAS INVOLVED WANTS SIX FOOT. THAT WAS A LIKE THE ONE ITEM AND IT'S REQUIRED AS FAR AS THE CODE. SO WE'VE MET THAT WE'VE AGREED TO GO WHAT THEY WANT. DO YOU KNOW IDAHO FALLS HAVE HAS A RIVER THAT RUNS RIGHT DOWN THEIR TOWN. THEY DON'T HAVE A FENCE ON EITHER SIDE OF IT. AND I DON'T HEAR CHILDREN DROWNING ALL THE TIME BECAUSE PARENTS WATCH THEIR CHILDREN. RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD ONE. THAT IS A REALLY GOOD POINT. WELL, I'M JUST IF YOU FENCE OFF NATURAL HABITAT, FENCING IT OFF FROM NOT JUST CHILDREN, YOU'RE FENCING IT OFF FROM THE CREATURES THAT HAVE LIVED THERE. I THINK IT'S OKAY TO ASK ABOUT SAFETY, THOUGH. I'M OKAY WITH THAT. YES, IT'S OKAY TO ASK ABOUT SAFETY, BUT I'M GOING TO GO ON RECORD SAYING I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO FENCE AT ALL THAT. IF IF I THINK IT'D BE NICE, I'LL GO ON RECORD SAYING WE WOULD WE WOULD DO THAT. IF YOU GUYS DON'T WANT THE FENCE, AT LEAST ON THE ONE SIDE, WE WOULD CHANGE THE CODE. I CAN I SHARE SOMETHING TO MY. SO THE REASON THAT MACARTHUR HOMES IS INVOLVED IN THIS IS WHEN BRANDON BROUGHT ME THIS PROJECT.

I WALKED TO THE BACK OF THAT YARD AND I SAW LIKE I HAD A VISION OF THIS LIKE URBAN OASIS BACK THERE WITH THE CREEK RUNNING THROUGH IT. AND YOU HAD THE MATURE TREES. AND I ENVISIONED THAT WE COULD PUT THE TOWNHOMES UP FRONT. WE'D HAVE A BRIDGE TO A BEAUTIFUL OPEN SPACE IN THE BACK. SO THE CREEK, TO ME IS THE BIGGEST AMENITY HERE. IT'S A REALLY UNIQUE FEATURE. A LOT OF TOWNHOME COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE A CREEK RUNNING THROUGH THE MIDDLE. AND SO MY MY ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS, WELL, LET'S, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN DO A FOUR FOOT METAL FENCE THAT YOU CAN SEE THROUGH, RIGHT. AND THEN WE, WE ENDED UP ADDING THE FENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND THE ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, WAS SURFACED AND WE HAD TO GO TO SIX FEET. BUT I'M HOPING THAT WITH A BLACK METAL FENCE, WE CAN AT LEAST STILL SEE THE CREEK THROUGH IT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WILDLIFE CAN GET THROUGH IT AND THAT WE CAN STILL ENJOY, LIKE THE SOUND OF THE CREEK WHEN IT'S RUNNING IN THE SPRING AND HAVE THAT BE AN INTEGRAL AMENITY TO THIS COMMUNITY. SO THAT WAS WORKED INTO OUR VISION HERE. SO IMAGINE LIKE SUGAR HOUSE PARK. YEAH. AND THERE'S A, A FULL ON RIVER GOING THROUGH THERE WITH NO, NO FENCING WHATSOEVER. CHILDREN PLAYING ALL AROUND IT. I DON'T KNOW, EVEN THIS SAME CREEK, IF YOU FOLLOW THE TRAIL UP, IT'S NOT FENCED ANYWHERE. I THINK A LOT OF THE JORDAN RIVER ISN'T FENCED ALONG THE JORDAN. YEAH. SO WE WERE WE WERE A LITTLE SURPRISED ABOUT THAT.

BUT AGAIN, WE'RE WILLING TO HAVE HOMES WITH CHILDREN. THEY'VE GOT SOME ARTWORK ATTACHED ONLY. SORRY, THE FENCING ISN'T GOING TO BE A DEAL KILLER. WE'RE HAPPY TO DO

[02:20:04]

AND WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING TO MITIGATE, MITIGATE THAT AND MINIMIZE THE POTENTIAL SITE LAYOUTS. A LITTLE FUNNY, I'D LIKE TO HAVE DRIVEWAYS TOO, BUT THE LAYOUT WITH THE FLAG LOT SHAPE IS JUST A LITTLE FUNNY HERE. ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT THIS ONE OVER THE LAST ONE WE SAW IS THAT IT IS CLOSER TO TRANSPORTATION AND HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, A CITY CENTER APPROACH. WE'D LOVE IT IF WE FOUND SOMETHING WHERE THEY HAD A, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S A SIX MINUTE WALK TO GET AROUND HERE. IT'S A LOT LONGER STILL TO GET TO THE OTHER COOL THINGS, THE, THE POOL, THE LIBRARY, THE REC CENTER AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AND I FIGURE THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE TOO FAR FOR SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE. ACTUALLY, I TALKED TO THOSE, EVERYBODY I TALKED TO ON THAT TRAIL, THEY, THEY PREFER TO STAY AT THEIR HOUSE AND THEY WALK OVER HERE DURING THE RODEO.

THIS WESTERN. YEAH. DURING THE RODEO. WELL, THEY SAID RODEO. THERE'S ACTUALLY PEOPLE PARKING IN FRONT, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT WALK ALL THE TIME. I'M NOT. EVERYBODY'S GOING TO DO IT. BUT AGAIN, THIS ISN'T THIS ISN'T GOING TO ELIMINATE PEOPLE NEEDING A CAR, BUT IT'S GOING TO GIVE THEM MORE OPTIONS. WELL, ONE NICE THING ABOUT THIS THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR, AND THE OTHER ONE IS THAT THEY DO HAVE A NICE AMENITY. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THEIRS, I WAS I KNEW IT WAS COMING UP AND I DIDN'T WANT TO GO STICK AROUND AND SEE WHAT I MEAN, BUT I, I SAID THERE WAS A LOT I LIKED ABOUT THIS, WHAT I REALLY, IN THE LAST MEETING WE HAD WAS I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTOOD, YOU KNOW, THE THOSE 11 UNITS. YEAH. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING THEIR PENALTY IS. I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO SEE JUST EVEN NAPKIN THOUGHTS OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO DO. IF YOU GET BOTH OF THOSE, ALL THREE OF THOSE PROPERTIES, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE YOU COULD PROBABLY GET TWO. BUT TWO ARE GOING TO BE A HARD THING TO CONNECT. YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD KIND OF BE A PHASE TWO THAT I WOULD DO AND COME BACK TO TYLER AND WORK WITH HIM ABOUT WHAT YOU COULD DO. I HAD MY ENGINEER KIND OF LOOK AT IT. YOU COULD DO ANOTHER. YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION HERE, BUT COME HERE. AND THE SAME THING YOU'D HAVE MAYBE SIX, AT LEAST SIX MORE. YEAH, YEAH, MAYBE ONE MORE ROW. ONE MORE ROW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE DOWN THE ROAD. I GUESS THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE DRIVEWAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY COULD. YEAH.

THEY'D BE DOWN THE ALLEY BASICALLY JUST ONE ROW. YES. OR THEY COULD FACE ON TO SUGAR FACTORY. OKAY. SO THERE'S A FEW THINGS YOU COULD DO THERE, BUT THAT'S IT'S A LONG SHOT. IF, IF YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT. YEAH. WELL HE'S NOT. YEAH. BUT AT LEAST I'M LOOKING TRYING TO TALK TO ALL THESE. STILL LOOKING AT BUYING THE OTHER TWO. EVEN IF YOU'RE UNSURE OF THAT OTHER ONE'S GOING TO SELL. IT WOULD DEPEND ON WHAT THE OTHER WHAT THEY WANT TO SELL IT FOR.

OKAY. I CAN'T ANSWER IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT OR NOT. YEAH. I MEAN, I'M DEFINITELY MORE INCLINED ON THIS ONE. JUST AS I SAID, IT'S CLOSER. I DO LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING PLANNED FOR. YOU KNOW, AN AMENITY WHICH YOU OFTEN DON'T SEE IN LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT. EVEN THE TOWNHOME NEXT TO THEM, THAT LITTLE RIGHT. AND THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE IN THIS LOCATION. YEAH. TO ME. YEAH. AND THEY HAVE. YEAH. AND WE'RE ACTUALLY CONSERVING IT. YOU CAN GET A CUP TO THE CREEK AND KNOW THAT'S A PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. I CAN'T, YOU KNOW BETTER. I'M HONEST. THEY HAVE A FILTERED WATER BOTTLE. THEY'LL BE FINE. YOU'D BE LIKE, NO, NO NO NO NO NO NO. DO WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR THESE? I'LL JUST SAY I'M IN SUPPORT OF IT. HOLD ON. TO BE FAIR, DO WE HAVE THE AREAS? YES. WE HAVE AN EXTRA. I WANT TO MAKE IT PUBLIC. AREAS. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE I APPRECIATE. ONE THING I WANT TO POINT OUT TO YOU GUYS. I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT YOU GUYS OWN THIS STRIP. MAKE A PATH RIGHT THERE 100% AND CONTINUE THIS WAY RIGHT THERE. IT CUTS THE WALK TIME IN HALF. AND THAT'S

[02:25:02]

YEAH. BECAUSE THE CITY CENTER'S ON IT. ALL OF THAT. BUT I THINK IN PRACTICALITY. YEAH. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU COULD LIKE TURN THOSE ONES AND LOSE A COUPLE? BUT THEN EVERYONE WOULD HAVE A 22 FOOT DRIVEWAY. WE'VE LOOKED AT IT KIND OF UPSIDE DOWN EVERY WHICH WAY AND I DON'T KNOW. LET ME FIGURE OUT THE BACKYARD, THE FRONT YARD, FRONT, BACK, WHATEVER THEY ARE.

AND THEN YOU GOT, YOU GOT REQUIREMENTS OF HOW CLOSE YOU CAN BE TO THE CREEK, THE STORM DRAIN RETENTION. WE HAVE TO BUILD IN THERE. THERE'S A LOT OF YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF ENGINEERING. THERE'S REALLY NOWHERE ELSE TO PUT PARKING. YEAH. OH, RIGHT. BUT I MEAN, HONESTLY, SOME OF THAT HAS SNOWMOBILE TRAILERS. I HAD CONCERNS LAST TIME WE CAME UP AND IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE EXACT SAME. IT IS. IT IS THE SAME. MY CONCERNS. YEAH. IT'S FINE. I THINK THE MODIFICATIONS WERE MINOR, WHICH IS PUT IT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. YEAH.

AND WE THIS IS THIS IS VERY MINOR BUT WE ADDED PERMANENT SITE PERMANENT SIGNAGE FOR GUEST PARKING AND NO PARKING SIGN. YEAH. AND WE'LL AND WE'LL COMMIT TO PUTTING IT INTO THE AS STRICT AS YOU WANT US TO WRITE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, WE'LL WE'LL WRITE THAT. CAN YOU WRITE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO. WE'LL HAVE PARKING ON SUGAR FACTORY ICE IS. I GUESS YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A NICE BIKE PARKING. YEAH IT DOES. WHEN THE COUNTY PUTS THEIR BICYCLE THERE.

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. NO PROBLEMATIC SIDE OF THE STREET. SERIOUSLY DOESN'T HAVE CURB OR SOMETHING. BICYCLES. GREAT. DID YOU NOTICE WHEN YOU'RE OVER THERE, DOES THE APARTMENT COMPLEX THERE ALREADY PARK ON THE STREET? I DIDN'T NOTICE ANY STREET. NOT REALLY MUCH. YEAH, I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE TWO BECAUSE THEY HAVE ONE CAR GARAGES FOR THE MOST PART. AND. BUT THEY ALL HAVE DRIVEWAYS. YEAH. SO MAYBE WHEN SOMEBODY HAS THEIR SUPER BOWL PARTIES. SO THAT'S THAT'S TWO CARS RIGHT THERE. THAT'S MY OF COURSE. YEAH. YEAH. I GUESS NOBODY WAS THERE AT ALL. YEAH. RIGHT. SO WHAT EVERYBODY IS ALL RIGHT. JUNE 2025. WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP. WE GET BACK ON THE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA. YEAH. I THINK WE WAS THERE FOR THEY NEEDED TO COME BACK BY THE END OF THIS END OF THIS MONTH. SO WE WERE HOPING, MARK, I THINK NEXT WHAT DID YOU SAY? YEAH. WE'LL WITH THE POINT OF ORDER, DO YOU. SO IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO PUT IT ONTO THE JULY 14TH, WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO SEND OUT REQUIRED REQUIRED NOTICES TO THE PUBLIC TODAY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. SO IT WOULD BE THE 28TH. YEAH. I THINK THAT'S FINE.

YEAH. PERFECT. FOR 28. REAL QUICK, WALTER, HAS THIS ALREADY HAD A PUBLIC HEARING THOUGH? IT HAS COME BACK AS A AS A BUSINESS ITEM. SO IT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL IF THEY WISH TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING OR IF THE NOTICING REQUIREMENT CHANGE. BECAUSE WE WERE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT SPECIFICALLY. BUT FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IF IF WE'RE CONTINUING THE PUBLIC HEARING, NO NOTICE IS NEEDED. BUT IF A NEW PUBLIC HEARING WAS HAPPENING, IF THINGS HAD CHANGED ENOUGH, THE COUNCIL STILL NEED TO DECIDE IF IT WAS GOING TO BE CONTINUATION OR NOT, BECAUSE IT WASN'T SPECIFICALLY IN THE MOTION, WAS IN FAVOR OF GIVING THE PUBLIC A CHANCE TO SPEAK SO THEY CAN STILL SPEAK IT. THE DIFFERENCE IS, DO WE SEND OUT THE NOTICES AGAIN? BUT I DON'T KNOW. SO WHAT YOU SAID, IT DEPENDS ON LISTEN TO IT.

RIGHT. CORRECT. SO IN THE JULY 14TH MEETING, WHAT COULD HAPPEN IS YOU COULD DO A RECONSIDERATION OF A MOTION, OR WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE TO ALLOW A CONTINUATION HEARING TO NOT REQUIRE MORE NOTICES TO BE SENT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. SO ALL THE NEIGHBORS GOT NOTICE LAST TIME, WHICH IS WHY THEY WANT TO COME TO PUBLIC HEARINGS. THAT'S ENOUGH. AND. WE GOT EMAILS ABOUT IT IN LIKE THE PARKING. YEAH, HE'S THE ONLY GUY. I

[02:30:11]

IS IT POSSIBLE TO READ ON THE 14TH OR WE'LL HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT FOR LEGAL SPECIFICALLY FOR IT, BUT WE'RE OPEN. EITHER I'LL KEEP THE 14TH AND THEN WE'LL BE BACK IN ELLEN AND WALTER TOMORROW. YEAH. IN THE OFFICE? YEAH. HE HAD A MEDICAL PROCEDURE, BUT HE'LL BE FINE FOR SURE. THE 28TH IS ABSOLUTELY FINE. 14TH IS JUST A LITTLE BIT. OKAY. WE WEREN'T COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN. WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

FOR STAYING LATE. YEAH. WAS EDUCATION SUN STILL UP? THANK YOU. NICE TO MEET YOU. THANK

[d. Discussion on Proposed Amendments to Temporary Business Licenses – Title 4, Chapter 2, Article E]

FOR SOME REASON. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. I WISH I WOULD HAVE GOT THAT MEMO. NO, ACTUALLY I, I WOULD, I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO GRAB THE ORANGE ONE AND MY BACK SPASMED AND I ENDED UP JUST GRABBING THE YELLOW AND JUST WENT, THIS IS THE ONE I'M WEARING. YEAH.

NO. OH GOD. I'VE ALSO MADE A BET WITH MISS QUICK ABOUT HOW LONG I THINK THIS IS GOING TO TAKE ME. LET ME TELL YOU, IT'S GOING TO BE SHORTER THAN THE OTHERS TONIGHT. SO I, I, I THINK I CAN DO IT TO BE HONEST. WE'VE GOT TEMPORARY LICENSES. AND JUST SO YOU UNDERSTAND, WE'RE TEMPORARY LICENSES FIT IN. IT'S ONE OF THE SPECIAL LICENSING PROVISIONS IN OUR BUSINESS LICENSING TITLE FOR CHAPTER TWO. YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB. YOU HIT SO MANY OF THEM. WE'VE ONLY GOT 2 OR 3 MORE THAT WE'RE EVEN GOING TO BRING BACK AFTER TONIGHT. BUT THESE TWO SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST ONE, TEMPORARY MERCHANTS. AND THEN I'M GOING TO ASK THAT YOU ADD ONE INTO THE RESERVED ARTICLE A, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE TONIGHT ON THE FIRST TWO ITEMS HERE. SO THERE'S THAT TEMPORARY BUSINESS LICENSES HAVE BEEN AN ABSOLUTE PAIN FOR US. I WISH THAT ASHLEY WAS STILL HERE FROM EVENTS. SHE COULD TELL YOU HOW MUCH TROUBLE THIS IS FOR THE EVENTS THAT WE HAVE WITH THE CITY, BECAUSE THE FEE STRUCTURE IS OFF. IT'S CONFUSING ON ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE APPLIED FOR. IT'S CONFUSING ON ON WHERE WE'RE LOOKING ON THE FEE SCHEDULE. THE FEE SCHEDULE STILL CONTAINS LANGUAGE REGARDING LARGE VENDOR, SMALL VENDOR THAT HASN'T BEEN IN THE CODE FOR PROBABLY EIGHT YEARS. SO IT'S, IT'S MADE IT TOUGH AS WELL FOR JUST SMALL WOULD BE VENDORS THAT ARE HAVING TO GET A FULL BUSINESS LICENSE AND A TEMPORARY LICENSE. I REALLY, I GUESS WHAT I'M THINKING IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET A TEMPORARY BUSINESS LICENSE, YOU DON'T HAVE A BRICK AND MORTAR, YOU'RE SETTING UP A SHOP SOMEWHERE JUST TEMPORARILY TO SELL SOMETHING FOR A WEEKEND OR A COUPLE WEEKENDS IN A MONTH.

WHY WOULD WE ASK THEM TO GET A FULL BUSINESS LICENSE ON TOP OF A TEMPORARY BUSINESS LICENSE? WHEN A BRICK AND MORTAR JUST HAS TO USUALLY GET GET ONE. SO I WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT KIND OF SOME PROBLEMS HERE. THERE IS SOME PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT'S IN YOUR PACKET THAT ADDRESSES THESE MAIN POINTS, RIGHT? SIMPLIFYING THE FEE STRUCTURE. IT'S A REDUCED FEE. WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO PAY THE FULL BUSINESS LICENSE FEE FOR A BUSINESS. THAT'S ONLY GOING TO BE AROUND FOR A BRIEF AMOUNT OF TIME, CLARIFYING THE PROCESS, DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN A SALES EVENT VERSUS AN INDIVIDUAL VENDOR, TWO LICENSES NO LONGER BEING REQUIRED. THERE'S SOME STYLISTIC CHANGES, WHICH I KNOW ARE ALWAYS WELCOME, AND THEN IT'S GOT AN EXPIRATION ON THE TEMPORARY LICENSE AS WELL. JUST SO YOU KIND OF GET A GRASP ON A SALES EVENT VERSUS AN INDIVIDUAL VENDOR. IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO SET A POP UP SHOP ACROSS THE STREET IN THE DISTRICT PARKING LOT, THEY COULD BRING AND APPLY THEMSELVES TO SET UP THEIR SHOP TO SELL WIDGETS OR WHATEVER THEY'RE SELLING OVER THERE. WHERE'S THE SALES EVENT IS MORE SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE THIS WEEKEND IN THE PARK, WHERE IT'S A WESTERN STAMPEDE

[02:35:05]

IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE YOU NEVER KNOW. I MEAN, YOU NEVER KNOW. THERE'S, THERE'S ALL SORTS OF CRAZY PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT THAT COULD BE POPPING UP IN SPOTS LIKE THAT. SO YEAH, WE'RE GLAD. WELL, I AM SELLING FLOWERS IN AND OUT. SO I'M PRETTY SURE THEY DON'T HAVE LICENSES, BUT PULLS UP HIS WAGON ON WESTERN. WE'LL WE'LL SEND IT'S TOUGH. IT'S TOUGH TO KNOW. SOMETIMES TOUGH ENFORCEMENT DOES POP UP TO THOSE. AND MAKE SURE THAT THE FRUIT STANDS OR OTHER THINGS ARE PROPERLY LICENSED. A LOT OF TIMES THEY AREN'T PART OF WHAT GOES INTO THE TEMPORARY LICENSE AS WELL, IS MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE SAFE INGRESS AND EGRESS, MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S PERMISSION FOR THE PROPERTY TO BE THERE. THERE'S NO SELLING IN THE RIGHT OF WAY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF PROCESS THAT GOES INTO IT. BUT I THINK WE'VE TRIED TO SIMPLIFY IT, CLARIFY IT, MAKE THE FEES REASONABLE FOR WHAT WE'RE ASKING AND WHAT WE'RE DOING. ANYWAY. ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE? A FEW YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A STATE LAW PASSED THAT. I REMEMBER IT BEING CALLED THE LEMONADE STAND LAW.

YEAH. ABOUT TEMPORARY POP UP VERY OCCASIONALLY OPERATED STUFF WHERE LICENSES THAT ONLY IF IT'S KIDS. I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S BASICALLY JUST KIDS. IT'S NOT IT'S NOT I WANT TO. SO IF I WANT TO BE A LAWYER BY DAY AND BY NIGHT, AND I HAVE MY KIDS SELL IT, POP UP AND PUT A STAND ON THE CORNER, I MEAN, SOME PROPERTY, SOME PEOPLE, SOME PEOPLE MAY SOME PEOPLE MAY SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, MOST LAWYERS PAINTING LOOKS LIKE KIDS PAINTED IT. SO, SO IT MAY FLY. BUT I, YEAH, I THINK, I THINK WHAT THAT'S MEANT TO DO IS, IS NOT CREATE ENFORCEMENT ISSUES FOR THE LEMONADE STAND TYPE OF STUFF VERSUS ORGANIZED BUSINESSES THAT ARE OPERATING ON MAYBE SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO SELL WAX WITH SOMEONE'S NAME ON COULD, COULD BE, COULD BE. SO LONG AS IT'S NOT IN THE PUBLIC, PUBLIC PROPERTY, PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. AND THEY HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE LANDOWNER AND THINGS TO BE SELLING THERE. SO I HAVE THAT EVERYTHING. IS ON A FOUR, TWO, E 1 OR 2 E THREE. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IT'S PRETTY MUCH SAYING THE SAME THING, BUT WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ADDITION OF A PARTICIPANT. WHAT DO YOU.

YEAH THE DEFINITION. SO THAT'S THAT'S THE PARTICIPANT DOESN'T SHOW THEIR I DON'T KNOW PARTICIPANT IN SALES EVENT. RIGHT. SO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE THEIR TENTS AND SELL GOAT SOAP AND OTHER STUFF OVER HERE IN THE WESTERN STAMPEDE MARKET ARE GOING TO BE PARTICIPANTS. THEY ARE NOT PARTICIPANT SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A TEMPORARY MERCHANT LICENSE. SO THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN UNDER THE SALES EVENT. OKAY. PARTICIPANT.

YOU KNOW, IF I WAS IN OUR AMERICAN LEGAL PUBLISHING CODE, I'D BE ABLE TO HIGHLIGHT IT AND TELL YOU WHAT I'M NOT THERE FOR. I WAS LOOKING UP INFO ON. THAT ONE. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. AND AGAIN, THAT WAS KIND OF ONE OF THOSE CONFUSING THINGS THAT WE'VE HAD TROUBLE WORKING THROUGH AS WELL. SO REALLY, IT'S, THERE'S A VENDOR, BUT THEN THERE'S SOMEONE WORKING UNDER THAT THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO. THAT'S OKAY. AS LONG AS THE VENDOR HAS THE LICENSE. OKAY. SO IN A CASE LIKE 4TH OF JULY THING OVER HERE WITH THE VENDORS IN THE PARK, THEY'RE OPERATING UNDER THE SALES EVENT LICENSE, MAYBE, MAYBE I WON'T SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THIS EVENT. WELL, BUT BUT HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, THE PERSON WHO'S ORGANIZING THE EVENT SHOULD BE THE ONE GETTING THE SALES EVENT LICENSE, THE TEMPORARY VENDOR

[02:40:01]

BUT FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF MY KIDS MAKES LITTLE BABY BOWS THAT SHE DOES THESE LITTLE POP UP MARKETS THAT COME UP AND SHOULD PAY $75 FOR A BOOTH OR WHATEVER. SO IT GOES ON THE MARKET. THAT WOULD BE A PARTICIPANT, CORRECT? CORRECT. OPERATING. THANK YOU. SELLING FESTIVAL OF TREES OR WHATEVER. AND YOU'RE A PARTICIPANT IN THIS LARGE BOUTIQUE TYPE STUFF. AND SHE MAY HAVE A HOME OCCUPATION BUSINESS THAT SHE RUNS, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T NEED TO HAVE A LICENSE NECESSARILY, BUT THAT WOULD COME TO A. SALES. YEAH. WOULD IT BE WORTH IT TO ADD OR WE COULD. YEAH, I, I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T PULLED IT UP. I'M SORRY. I'LL LOOK AND SEE REAL QUICK IF IT LINKS AND IF WE'VE GOT A DEFINITION I CAN SAY I'M WAY OFF ON MY TIME. YEAH. CINDY HAS HAS ONE. I OWE HER A COKE. PARTICIPANT IS DEFINED AS A TEMPORARY MERCHANT, NOT LICENSED. SUCH PARTICIPATING IN SALES EVENT. SO AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS WHAT IF YOU'RE OFFERING LIKE MASSAGES? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? THE WHOLE THING WITH MASSAGES? NO.

YEAH. I, I WOULD SAY I WOULD SAY SO LONG AS YOU'RE NOT A VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE OKAY WITH THAT ONE, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A PERPETRATOR. PERPETRATOR AS WELL. YES. THANK YOU. PATRICK. YES. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS ONE? NO. DO I HAVE FOUR THUMBS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS? GOT TWO. I'LL BET YOU GET SEVEN, EIGHT, EIGHT THUMBS I COUNTED. OKAY. HOLD ON THOUGH. OH, I FORGOT MY GRAPHIC HERE. I'M USING ZERO AIR USE.

YOU CAN GIVE THEM TO THE TOMATO FARM. I PUT MY MEAT CLEAVER BECAUSE WE'RE CUTTING CODE. I MISSED IT, FORGOT ABOUT IT. SORRY. SORRY, GUYS. IT WAS. YEAH, I MOVED, IT MOVED. HOLD ON, HOLD ON. HERE WE GO. I. PATRICK. HERE WE GO. THAT WAS A STRETCH A LITTLE BIT. ALL RIGHT.

[e. Discussion on Proposed City Code Amendments to Reorganize Fireworks Sales Licensing Requirements – Title 6 Chapter 2 and Title 4 Chapter 2 Article A]

YEAH. I, I KNOW WAY TO PICK A TIME. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I PUT THIS, I PUT THIS ON HERE WEEKS AND WEEKS AGO BEFORE THIS WAS EVEN GOING TO, YOU KNOW, BLOW UP ON US. I IT'S, IT'S, I, I WISH IT WAS AS. SEXY OF A TOPIC IS AS IT MIGHT LOOK. IT'S REALLY NOT WE'VE, WE'VE GOT TWO KIND OF AREAS THAT, THAT I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS ON THIS. WE ISSUED TWO TYPES OF LICENSES. AND CHIEF MAXFIELD HAS BEEN WAITING EAGERLY FOR THIS DISCUSSION ALL NIGHT.

WE'VE GOT TWO TYPES OF LICENSES THAT WE ISSUE PROFESSIONAL SHOWS. THERE'S THERE'S AN APPLICATION THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS PEOPLE FILL OUT. ANYTIME YOU WANT TO RUN A PROFESSIONAL SHOW IN THE CITY, NOT JUST THE CITY OF WEST JORDAN CAN CAN DO IT, BUT IF THERE'S A SCHOOL OR BUSINESS OR AN HOA, WHOEVER THAT WANTS TO PUT ON A PROFESSIONAL SHOW, THEY CAN FILL OUT THIS APPLICATION, PAY A FEE, HAVE INSPECTORS AND STUFF GO OUT AND EXAMINE WHAT THEY DO. AND THAT'S COVERED IN TITLE SIX, CHAPTER TWO. WE ALSO ISSUE A LICENSE FOR THE SALE OF PERSONAL FIREWORKS. THIS IS SAM'S CLUB. IT'S THE SMITHS.

THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE POP UP SHOPS, THE BLACK CAT, WHATEVER THAT'S ON THE CORNER. IT'S ALSO MENTIONED IN TITLE SIX, CHAPTER TWO THOUGH, WHICH IS KIND OF A CONFUSING SPOT FOR IT. WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS THAT WE BLOW UP THAT SECTION. YEAH, WE DIDN'T MISS THAT ONE AND THAT

[02:45:01]

YEAH, BUT THEY'RE OPEN YEAR ROUND. THEY'RE OPEN YEAR ROUND. RIGHT? YEAH. BRICK AND MORTAR STORE. YEAH. THIS $100 FEE I THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE ON HERE BECAUSE THE CLEANUP.

YEAH. BECAUSE IT'S ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. SO WHY ARE WE CHARGING THEM A FEE FOR CLEANUP ON. ARE WE CLEAN ON BIG LOTS PROPERTY. THAT JUST SEEMS NOT RIGHT TO ME. WHEN I READ THAT, I WAS LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, PAY $100 CLEANUP SECURITY DEPOSIT. IF THE INTENDED SALES WILL OCCUR IN A TEMPORARY SALE STAND, IS IT THE CITY CLEANING IT UP? YEAH, I THINK HISTORICALLY WE HAVE IS BECAUSE I KNOW IN SPEAKING WITH MIKE, HE HAD SAID SPECIFICALLY LIKE THEY THEY ARE

[02:50:06]

AND DO WE DO THIS FOR A SNOW CONE STAND? BECAUSE I'LL BET THEY LEAVE SOME MESS IN CATTLE RANCHES, PARKING LOT. WELL, I HATE TO TELL YOU, MAYBE WE SHOULD ADDRESS IT, BUT SNOW CONE STANDS DON'T NEED SPECIALTY LICENSE, SO WE COULD ADDRESS THOSE. BUT THEY MAY BE A TEMPORARY MERCHANT. PENDULUM SWINGING BACK THE OTHER WAY. ALL ALL OVER THE PLACE. TO ME, THEY'RE A SIMILAR SCENARIO WHERE THEY'RE USING SOMEBODY ELSE'S PARKING LOT. YEAH. SO I'M OKAY TO CHARGE A FEE. AND I'M ACTUALLY WITH JESSICA. YEAH. BUT I DON'T THINK A CLEANUP FEE.

PROPERTY SEEMS RIGHT. I WILL TELL YOU, I DON'T THINK YOU'LL GET ANY PUSHBACK FROM BUSINESS LICENSING OR FINANCE OR CUSTOMER SERVICE. THEY HATE HOLDING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, RIGHT? WE HATE TAKING BONDS. WE HATE HOLDING THE MONEY. IF IT'S, IT'S, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S TOUGH. IT'S TOUGH. THERE'S SOME THAT IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. LIKE GREG'S, YOU KNOW, WATER METER RENTAL THAT HE BROUGHT UP LIKE THAT MAKES A TON OF SENSE. THOSE ARE CRAZY EXPENSIVE. BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS ONE NECESSARILY DOES. WE'VE WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WORKING ON OUR CIVIL CITATION PROCESS. IF THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT, THEY'RE LITTERING.

IT'S DIRTY. YEAH. WE CAN CITE THEM. WE CAN ENFORCE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY CODE. I DON'T, YOU KNOW, YEAH. PUT THE $100 TO A FEE AND. I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO CHARGE A FEE FOR THE COST OF THE CITY TO ISSUE THE LICENSE. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO USE THAT TO MAKE IT LARGER JUST TO CONTROL FIRE. OKAY. WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE OTHER. STATE LAW SUPPORTS THAT POSITION. THESE ARE INTENDED TO RECOVER COSTS, RIGHT? YEAH. THE WINDMILLS, NOT THAT GANGSTER I KNOW OF. I'D BE OKAY WITH THAT. I KNOW THE AMOUNT OF EXTRA WORK THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS TO DO, BECAUSE THERE ARE FIREWORKS IN THE CITY AND GO TOWARD THAT COST RECOVERY. THAT'S THAT DISPARATE IMPACT STUFF. YEAH, RIGHT. YOU COULD DO THAT. YEAH, YEAH. I'M TALKING ABOUT PUTTING OUT THE DUMPSTER FIRES. WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT TO BE EQUAL THOUGH, TO SOME RETAILERS. YES. BRICK AND MORTAR RETAILERS SHOULDN'T HAVE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. RIGHT. NO. ANYBODY WHO SELLS FIREWORKS, WHETHER THEY'RE MORTAR OR WHETHER IT'S MACY'S SELLING THE FIREWORKS IN MACY'S OR WHETHER IT'S BLACK CAT TEN, NOBODY ASKS US TO MAKE SURE. DO THEY HAVE WITH THAT TO SELL THE FIREWORKS. IS THERE STUFF THAT THEY LEGALLY HAVE TO DO WITH IN CONJUNCTION WITH FIREWORKS WHEN THEY'RE SELLING, LIKE, SAY, LIQUOR, YOU HAVE TO CHECK ID. YEAH. IF WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS LIKE THEY HAVE TO HAVE EXTINGUISHERS AVAILABLE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SIGNAGE THAT TALKS ABOUT SAFETY WITH FIREWORKS AND PROPER DISPOSAL, THAT THINGS HAVE TO BE KEPT. IGNITION SOURCES HAVE TO BE KEPT A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY.

AND THAT'S THAT'S THE INITIAL INSPECTION THAT OUR FIRE MARSHAL GOES OUT AND DOES AS FAR AS AFTERWARDS OR SELLING. LET ME ASK THIS, THOUGH. SO THAT GOES ON AT THE STANDS, BUT AT THE SMITHS HAPPENS THERE TOO. BUT BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GO BUY SOME, YOU KNOW, INCENDIARY THING IN SMITH'S SOMETHING ELSE, SOME LIGHTERS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WALKING RIGHT BY THE THING. SO THAT GETS RID OF THE WHOLE IDEA. I THINK THAT PROBABLY WHAT, WHAT WE'RE THERE INSPECTING IS MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER SIGNAGE. WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY ENFORCING THE I JUST I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE I, LIKE I SAID, I KNOW WHEN I BOUGHT FIREWORKS AT A STAND, THEY SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, HANDED ME THIS AND SAID A FEW THINGS AND HEY, AND HERE'S A BUCKET, HERE'S ALL THIS STUFF. AND SMITH'S IS JUST LIKE, BEEP BEEP. YEAH, WE STILL, WE STILL GO IN ONCE THOSE FIREWORK DISPLAYS ARE SET UP AND LIKE MACY'S OR SMITH'S, WE STILL GO IN AND, AND DO AN INSPECTION. SO. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. YEAH. DO THEY HAVE TO DO THEY NEED TO HAVE PROOF OF INSURANCE LIKE TITLE SIX

[02:55:03]

IT'S NOT THE CITY. YEAH. WE WOULD BEAR THEM. AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION IS PROBABLY FOR YOU, SIR, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR. HOW MUCH MISDEMEANOR AS FAR AS THE FINE, I BELIEVE IS UP TO $750. WHICH SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH, I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE SAME FOR CIVIL CITATIONS. SO WE CAN WE CAN ATTACK THEM FROM BOTH ANGLES. I THINK FOR OUR FEE SCHEDULE, MAYBE. MAYBE STAFF. BUT IS IT COSTING US TO DO ALL THIS STUFF AND WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING? IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN I CAN BRING THAT INFORMATION BACK AS WELL. I WANT TO HEAR FROM THE COUNCIL ARE THE. IF WE. SEVEN YEARS AGO WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE BUSINESS LICENSING. WE KIND OF NOT INCLUDE DISPARATE FEES BECAUSE IT'S LIKE IT'S A PROCESS THAT IS TO SAY, FIREWORKS STAND. NOT ONLY DOES IT SELL FIREWORKS, BUT IT CAUSES MORE PUBLIC SAFETY CALLS FOR SERVICE. THEREFORE, THE BUSINESS LICENSE IS GOING TO GET AN ADDED. BECAUSE WE WORK ON THE FEE SCHEDULE. I HAVE HEARD A LITTLE BIT OF COMMENTS ABOUT DISPARATE FEES WHEN WE WORK ON THE ACTUAL COST. YOU WANT US TO CONSIDER A DISPARATE FEE OR JUST ACTUAL DIRECT COST OF SERVICE, SORRY, INDIRECT COST OF SERVICE IN ADDITION TO DIRECT COST OF SERVICE SERVICE, OR JUST DIRECT COST OF SERVICE, I DON'T WANT TO BECOME UNREASONABLE. LIKE, I KNOW WE'RE ALL FIREWORKS RIGHT NOW, BUT IT ALSO SEEMS A LITTLE ANTI AMERICAN. I'M ALWAYS. LIKE, SO AND JUST TO MAKE SURE AND I'M GOING BACK, THIS WOULD BE LIKE THE GROCERY STORES. THEY WOULD HAVE TO THEN HAVE THIS FEE AS WELL. YEAH. I MEAN IT GOT RID OF THE ONES WITH THE LITTLE MACHINE. SO THEY ALWAYS FOUND. YEAH. IT WOULD WE'VE, WE'VE, WE'VE TAKEN MONEY FROM ONE PILE TO STICK IT IN IT. YEAH. I MEAN I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO DO THIS TO BLACK CAT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT. SO YEAH, I'D BE INTERESTED. I THINK I THINK SOME KIND OF LICENSING FEE. DOES CHARGE. WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SPIRIT. WOULD YOU CALL IT DISPARATE IMPACT? YEAH. YEAH. IT'S A BUSINESS LICENSE FEE WITH A DISPARATE IMPACT. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT MIGHT BE? SO FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE A I WAS PART OF A BUSINESS LICENSING STUDY WHEN I WORKED AT SANDY AND BOWLING ALLEYS CAUSED SO MANY MORE CALLS FOR POLICE AND FIRE SERVICES THAN, YEAH, THAN BARBERSHOP THAN A BARBERSHOP. RIGHT. BOWLING ALLEYS, CONVENIENCE STORES, LIQUOR STORES, NIGHTCLUBS. THEY JUST DREW MORE RESOURCES FROM PUBLIC SAFETY. AND AS SUCH, WHEN THE OWNERS OF THOSE BUSINESSES CAME IN, THEY PAID THE REGULAR BUSINESS LICENSE FEE PLUS A DISPARATE USE FEE, AND IT WAS TEN TIMES MORE. SOMETIMES, DEPENDING ON THE USAGE, AT LEAST THE STUDY JUSTIFIED THAT KIND OF LIKE AN IMPACT FEE. THE COUNCIL DIDN'T APPLY THE WHOLE

[03:00:04]

AND THE CODE ENFORCEMENT WOULD THEN GO TO THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. OKAY. AND THAT WAY THEY WE LET THE PROPERTY OWNER KNOW THAT. WE'LL TELL THEM, YEAH, YOU'RE LETTING THEM ON THE PROPERTY. IF THEY DON'T CLEAN IT UP, IT'S GOING TO BE ON YOU. SO ONE OF YOU TWO ARE GOING TO CLEAN IT. SO NOT US THAT WAY. WE'RE NOT TAKING MONEY THAT WE'RE GIVING BACK OR HAVING TO SEE, DO WE GIVE IT BACK? OR HOW MUCH DO WE GIVE BACK OR ANY OF THAT OTHER STUFF? I THAT THAT COULD BE A B DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S CHANGED MUCH OF ANYTHING, EXCEPT I'M ASSUMING THAT SAME CLEANUP FEE PROBABLY DIDN'T GO TO THE MACY'S, SMITHS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT WAS IT WAS ONLY THE TEMPORARY. THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. WELL, YEAH, MACY'S HAS TO CLEAN UP THEIR STORE. THAT'S JUST A I THOUGHT TO THROW OUT A NUMBER. YEAH. SO MY OTHER MY OTHER THING WAS I PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE DISPARATE FEES WHEN WE HAD THAT STUDY. I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO TAKE LIKE A MOVIE THEATER BUSINESS LICENSE FROM LIKE $300 TO LIKE $2,000. IT WAS GETTING STUPID. AND I DON'T THINK I DON'T THINK I CAN PERSONALLY JUSTIFY DOING IT FOR JUSTIFIABLE BUSINESSES. I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, WE GOTTA DO THAT. ACROSS THE BOARD. YEAH, YOU GOT TO DO IT. GET EVERYBODY'S DISPARATE IMPACT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. SO. I DON'T THINK I WAS IN FAVOR OF A DISPARATE IMPACT FEE MOVING FORWARD WITH A STUDY AND ACTUALLY DOING THAT. SO. A TO BE CONSISTENT AND B BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO GET IT ACROSS THE BOARD. LET'S SAY WE DRIVE WILLY NILLY OUT OF THE CITY. WE'VE LOST AMENITY, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU DO, WE DO. ONE JUST MAKING A, I GOT A REALLY GOOD LITTLE DELI IN. FEEL. I NEED TO CORRECT AN IMPRESSION. I THINK I GAVE ON DISPARATE FEES FOR BUSINESS LICENSING. STATE LAW ALLOWS YOU TO CHARGE DISPARATE FEE FOR BUSINESS LICENSING BECAUSE OF THE CALLS FOR SERVICE TO THE BUSINESS, NOT BECAUSE OF ADDED CALLS FOR SERVICE, BECAUSE OF WHAT THE BUSINESS SELLS. YEAH. THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. IT'S INTERESTING. SO BECAUSE IN A BOWLING ALLEY, IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO THE BOWLING LANE, NOT BECAUSE THERE'S BOWLING BALLS OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. YEAH. SO A FIRE, A FIREWORKS STAND AND DISPARATE CHARGE, DISPARATE BUSINESS LICENSE CHARGE FOR FIREWORKS STANDS WOULD BE BASED UPON HOW OFTEN POLICE AND FIRE ARE RESPONDING TO THE SITES WHERE FIREWORKS ARE BEING SOLD, NOT BECAUSE WE'RE RESPONDING A LOT AND FIREWORKS, BUT OFTEN TAKES PLACE AT THE BOWLING OR NEARBY A LIQUOR STORE. RIGHT? WE'RE NOT CHARGING. WE CAN'T CHARGE A HUGE, DISPARATE FEE ON A LIQUOR STORE, BECAUSE LIQUOR IN GENERAL IS CHALLENGING. YEAH.

WELL, THE NICE THING IS I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT THIS YEAR. YEAH, SURE. WELL, UNLESS

[03:05:03]

IF YOU PAID NOTHING, I'LL GIVE YOU ANYTHING BACK. I NEEDED TO BRING THIS UP ANYWAY AT SOME POINT. SO. OKAY, SO I BROUGHT IT UP. DO I HAVE. WELL, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE QUESTIONS, BUT ARE THERE FOR THAT THAT WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF SEEING THIS COME BACK. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT BACK AT A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT MOVE FORWARD TO A BUSINESS ITEM? I KNOW THERE'S A QUESTION OF FEES. I CAN SPEAK WITH MR. HUDSON AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON ON, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT AN INITIAL FEE MIGHT BE. BUT IN THE PROPOSED FEE SCHEDULE, I ACTUALLY DID PUT 200. I JUST LOOKED, BUT IF YOU WOULD RATHER IT BE AROUND 100, 150 FOR FOR FIREWORK LICENSE, HOW MANY OF THEM DO WE DO? I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S MAYBE AROUND A DOZEN. I, I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE IF WE ASKED. WELL, I'M GUESSING THE TEMPORARY WORK IT TAKES INSTEAD OF AN ARBITRARY NUMBER. YEAH, I'D LIKE IT TO COME BACK, BUT I THINK WE CAN. I THINK I THINK THESE CAN GO. I THINK THAT THE CODE THAT YOU BROUGHT TO US CAN COME TO JUST A REGULAR BUSINESS MEETING, BUT THE FEE SCHEDULE, I THINK WE NEED TO EVEN IF IT WAS 25 AND WE'RE CHARGING $100 EACH, WE'RE TALKING $2,500. I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A BUDGETARY IMPACT THAT YOU CAN COVER. ONE FIRE TRUCK GOING TO VISIT A, YOU KNOW, A FIREWORK STAND. WELL, ALSO STILL OUT MONEY. AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE FIRE TRUCKS THAT PAY FOR TAXES AND STUFF. TO MR. LEE'S POINT, WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN HEARING MORE ABOUT DISPARATE FEE AT A FUTURE DATE? MAYBE A STUDY OF DISPARATE STUDY? WELL, COUNCIL MEMBER HARRIS SAID ONLY IF IT'S ACROSS THE BOARD. I DON'T WANT I MEAN, A STUDY WOULD BE ACROSS THE BOARD. I WANT TO TARGET INDUSTRY, NOT. COUNCIL MEMBER JACOBS SAY THAT THIS WAS CONSIDERED BY A PREVIOUS COUNCIL. LIKE DURING HIS TWO YEARS AGO, LONG ENOUGH AGO THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT AGAIN. HOW QUICKLY CAN YOU DO E-BIKES? HONESTLY, 2.5 MINUTES TIME, I HEARD THIS, I KNOW, LISTEN, I'M NOT THE ONE SLOWING THIS DOWN HERE. YOU GUYS ARE CHATTY AS ALL GET OUT TONIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE PIZZA, BUT CINDY'S NOT ORDERING DINNER EVER AGAIN. WE'RE DISALLOWING CINDY'S PIZZA E-BIKE UPDATE COOKIES? THE COOKIES 100%.

[f. Update on E-Bike Code Amendment]

[03:10:01]

IT'S IT'S A PRETTY BASIC REALLY CUT AND DRY I THINK, PROPOSAL THAT'S IN THERE ALLOWING FOR SOME E-BIKE OPERATION ON THE SIDEWALKS, BUT ONLY ON THE LOW POWERED. BIKES WITH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN AGE. ALL THIS STUFF SPELLED OUT IN STATE CODE, OR IS IT STATE OR THE STATE CODE, SAY MUNICIPALITIES MAY REGULATE THESE THINGS. SO SO WHAT STATE CODE SAYS IS THAT MUNICIPALITIES CAN REGULATE THE OPERATION OF E-BIKES ON CITY PATHS AND SIDEWALKS. OKAY. SO STATE CODE DOESN'T SET OUT THE REQUIREMENTS. IT SAYS MUNICIPALITIES CAN'T SET. YEAH, BUT BUT HERE'S THE CAVEAT. THE CODE RIGHT NOW UNTIL 2027 ALREADY INCLUDES SOME LIMITATIONS REGARDING SIDEWALKS AND THINGS. WELL, THE REASON AND THE REASON I ASK IS SHOULD WE WRITE THIS SAYING E-BIKES ARE GOVERNED UNDER STATE CODE C, STATE CODE AND CALL IT GOOD, OR SHOULD WE LIST THEM ALL OUT? I THINK WE SHOULD. I THINK WE SHOULD ADOPT THE STATE CODE, WHICH WE DO IN THE DRAFT CODE, AND THEN WE SHOULD DECIDE WE WE YOU SHOULD DECIDE WHERE YOU WANT THE E-BIKES TO OPERATE. AND THAT'S, THAT'S, I THINK WHAT, WHAT WE'VE SAID, THE, THE, THE CONVERSATION THAT I'VE HEARD IN THE PAST IS WE WANT THE JORDAN RIVER PARKWAY TO BE A LITTLE SPECIAL BECAUSE IT COULD BE USED FOR COMMUTING PURPOSES. WE DON'T WANT TO REALLY PLACE STRICT PROHIBITIONS ON THAT. WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE DRIVING CRAZY ON OUR NEIGHBORHOOD SIDEWALKS. SO WE'VE PLACED SOME RESTRICTIONS REGARDING CATEGORY OF OF E-BIKE ON THAT. THERE'S SOME AGE RESTRICTIONS AS WELL. THAT MIRROR KIND OF WHAT THE STATE IS DOING. WE'VE SEEN KIND OF SOME OF THE SURROUNDING JURISDICTIONS. WE'RE TRYING TO ALSO WORK WITH THEM AND MIRROR KIND OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING AS WELL, SO THAT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF COHESIVENESS WHEN CITIZENS MOVE BETWEEN, SAY, THE CITY, THE COUNTY AND SOME OF OUR NEIGHBORING JURISDICTIONS AS WELL. BUT WE DEFINITELY TO TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILMEMBER JACOB, WE DO NOT WANT TO RESTATE WHAT THE STATE HAS DONE, BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GOING TO BE REVISING IT. WE'LL NEVER KEEP UP. SO WE'RE ADOPTING. WE'RE ADOPTING WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

WE'RE TAKING THE THE LIMITED AUTHORITY THAT THEY'VE GIVEN US TO RESTRICT. AND WE'RE JUST PLACING SOME BASIC, I THINK, EASY TO COMPLY WITH RESTRICTIONS IN THAT VERY NARROW AREA WHERE THEY COULD USE IT. YOU SAID TWO THINGS YOU SAID PROHIBITING THEM ON JORDAN PARKWAY, AND THEN YOU SAID, WE'RE ALLOWING THEM. AND I BELIEVE THE CODE SAYS WE'RE ALLOWING THEM. BUT I WANTED TO ASK IF WE WANTED TO ALSO ALLOW THEM ON THE MOUNTAIN VIEW FOR THE SAME REASON, NOT MOTORCYCLES. SO THE MOTORCYCLES ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. WELL, SO THERE'S E-BIKES AND THEN THERE'S THESE LIKE SHARON TYPE BIKES, THAT KINDS OF THINGS.

YEAH, INCLUDING A UNICYCLE. SO WHERE DO WE PUT HIM? WELL, BUT BUT THE PROBLEM, COUNCILMAN WHITLOCK IS THE STATE CODE SPECIFICALLY DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN ALL THESE THINGS.

THERE'S CLASS ONE, TWO AND THREE AND THEN MOTORCYCLES. AND THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT POWER RATINGS AND THEY'RE ALL TREATED VERY DIFFERENTLY. BUT WE'RE ALLOWING E-BIKES ON JORDAN RIVER, RIGHT? CORRECTLY. I'M SAYING AS LONG AS WE'RE ALLOWING THEM, WOULD WE LIKE TO

[03:15:05]

I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT. IF WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THEM ON THE CITY TRAILS, ON THE CITY TRAILS, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES ON BACK AS HIGHWAY TO THE FROM MY NEIGHBORHOOD. ONE DISTINCTION THAT SOME OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAVE MADE IS TO ALLOW CERTAIN CLASSES ON PAVED PATHS AND LESSER ON, SAY, DIRT AND GRAVEL, NATURAL SURFACES AND THINGS. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAYBE CONSIDER MIRRORING WHAT THEY DO, I THINK THAT WOULD. I THINK THAT THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY DO. I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE GOT THE TRAIL OR THE WHEELS PARKED. THAT'S, THAT'S NOT GOING TO ALLOW THE E-BIKES AT ALL. BUT WHETHER WE WANT TO DO IT ON OUR NATURAL SURFACE TRAILS WOULD BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. I DON'T THINK I'D WANT TO DO ON OUR NATURAL SURFACE, BUT ON PAVED SURFACES, I THINK I WOULD. YOU WANT TO ALLOW E-BIKES IN ANY FASHION ON THE NATURAL SURFACE, DIRT OR GRAVEL. THEY'RE NATURAL SURFACES FOR LIKE A CHILD'S MOTORCYCLE MOTORBIKE. DEPENDS ON HOW THEY'RE CLASSIFIED LIKE IT. IT'S JUST GOING TO DEPEND ON WHAT CLASS THEY FALL INTO. AND THEY'RE VERY THEY'RE VERY WELL DEFINED IN STATE CODE.

WHAT'S THE CODE ON LIKE THE ELECTRIC SCOOTERS? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, LIKE LIKE A RASCAL SCOOTER. DEPENDS ON IF THEY'RE SEATED OR STANDING AND A SEGWAY. I PUT MY DAD HAD TO USE FOR YEARS. YEAH. THERE'S LIKE JAZZY. YEAH. THEY WERE CALLED RASCALS. SO, SO THERE'S ALLOWANCES FOR MOBILITY DEVICES AND WE'RE NOT MESSING THINGS UP. WE'RE JUST WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT BIKES.

PERFECT. JUST BIKES. THEY GOT THEIR OWN LITTLE THINGS. SO YET I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING AT ME. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU DO YOU WANT I, I HEARD MOUNTAIN VIEW AND AND I ALSO HEARD THE DIRT TRAILS THOUGH. DO YOU DO YOU WANT ME TO INCLUDE DIRT TRAILS AND A LOWER CATEGORY SIMILAR TO WHAT MAYBE THE COUNTY HAS INTENDED? DO YOU WANT ME TO LEAVE IT JUST WITH PAVED AND AND ONLY PEDAL BICYCLES ON LIKE DIRT? DO YOU WANT ME TO INCLUDE MOUNTAIN VIEW SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH JORDAN PARKWAY? WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IT ANOTHER NIGHT? YOU HAVEN'T BEEN HERE FOR FIVE HOURS. I HAVE, I JUST HAVE NO IDEA. WELL, SOMEBODY SHOWED UP AT FOUR. I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT WAS. I THINK HE DID DO ONE TRIP. THE KIDS ARE ALLOWED TO RIDE MOTORBIKES, LIKE WITH A GAS EXHAUST, NOT LEGALLY ON DIRT TRAILS. AREN'T THEY ALLOWED TO DO THAT IN SOME PLACES IN THE CITY? HERE IN THE CITY, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S IF IT'S A IF IT'S A GAS POWERED DIRT BIKE, LIKE AN OFF ROAD VEHICLE. YEAH. THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED ON, ON CITY TRAILS. THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED LIKE UP IN STATE TRAILS AND, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT. YEAH.

OKAY. NEVERMIND. I THOUGHT IF THAT WAS ALLOWED IN THIS IN CERTAIN TRAILS OF THE CITY, THEN I'D WANT THE EQUIVALENT E-BIKE TO BE ALLOWED AS WELL. BUT IF THAT'S NOT ALLOWED AT ALL IN THE CITY, THEN IT'S EASY. ESSENTIALLY. ESSENTIALLY, THE E-BIKE IS WHEREVER YOU CAN TAKE A PEDAL BIKE. GENERALLY, YOU CAN TAKE AN E-BIKE WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS BASED ON THE POWER AND AND THE CAPACITY THAT THE E-BIKE HAS. LET ME MAKE A POINT TO ONE OF THE THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MOTORCYCLES, E-BIKES. LIKE IN HERE, WE SPECIFICALLY STATE FOR JORDAN RIVER IS RESTRICTING THE CLASS THREE, WHICH IS UP TO 28MPH. WE DON'T HAVE A PEDAL ASSIST IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR CONSIDERATIONS FOR COMMUTE, THEY HAVE TO GET INTO THAT TRAIL. AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE NOW IS YOU CAN HAVE IT OR NOT AUTHORIZE CITY STREETS

[03:20:05]

OKAY. I'LL ASK THAT. I'VE GOT ONE MORE THING. JUST THANK YOU. AND IT'LL ONLY BE TWO MINUTES, I KNOW CHAD'S CHAD'S GOING TO NEVER LET ME SPEAK AGAIN. I'M SORRY. YOU KNOW WHAT? GOOD THING IS? I'M DONE. SO WITH MY LAST TIME. I WILL SAY, WITH NO FURTHER BUSINESS.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.